Why in the actual fuck would any female want to transition to

>>8370402
Hard mode? What do you mean you have the support of the patriarchy.

Either because their foolish AAPs who are unknowingly throwing their lives away, or ftm HSTSs who want the power of T and the glory of manhood.

>>8370402
You appear lost
>>>/r9k/

>>8370414
>you have the support of the patriarchy
kek, men are at each others throats, we compete for sex, unlike women who get to choose.

>being such a pussy that you think your life is hard BECAUSE you are a man
no, life is hard because you are a pussy and a victim

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>>8370431
>we compete for sex, unlike women who get to choose

Said as someone who never had a female "best friend" or relative "steal" a lover from you.

Both sexes have interpersonal bull shit to deal with, unattractive members of both sexes and/or genders struggle to get laid. The nuances differ but neither group has all the perks, neither have all the detriments.

I have lived passably as both. Stop insisting the otherside has some sort of default advantage to explain why y'all suck.

>>8370432
I actually agree because I like responsibility but there's obviously a growing bubble in how feminism achieved equal rights but then cultural male-female dynamic which disadvantages men never shifted with it.

Divorce/custody courts were designed to favor wives because if their husbands ever left them, they used to not have the means to support themselves. Now they do, but men are still largely fucked in legal cases.

Men are shunned from ever admitting they are raped, while women claims of rape are taken so seriously that they can easily abuse it.

Circumcision is still seen as completely fine, while FGM is absolutely and rightfully unacceptable in the west.

Even mtf get a ton of heat in society that they're secretly trying to rape people in women's bathrooms while nobody tends to have any problem with ftms.

Anyone who thinks men's rights is just a meme is oblivious to the current progression of society.

>>8370402
'easy mode' and 'hard mode' are in fact very accurate and neutral terms to describe female vs male life -- easy mode is easier, but you don't get the whole game or the full experience
essentially, male society is set up so if you have a certain set of personality traits combined with hard work and luck you win and have the best life imaginable but if you don't you're fucked, while female society is set up so both the reward and failure scenarios are barely a shadow of the male equivalent
this penalizes women who are ambitious and competitive, and men who are unambitious and non-competitive
a far larger share of the male population is unambitious and non-competitive compared to the share of the female population that is ambitious and competitive, which is why 'failed male' agps who transition under the right circumstance usually have equally good outcomes as hstses
in natal females being ambitious and competitive is strongly correlated with other markers of neuromasculinization like gynephilia and masculine behaviour, so trans men will disproportionately benefit in that way from playing on hard mode

>>8370431
>actually believing this bullshit
Holy shit, GET LIFE. I guess you don't even know any females.

>>8370606
>easy mode is easier, but you don't get the whole game or the full experience
>while female society is set up so both the reward and failure scenarios are barely a shadow of the male equivalent
>this penalizes women who are ambitious and competitive,
Many women do earn huge rewards on their own ambition and make great accomplishments though?

>which is why 'failed male' agps who transition under the right circumstance usually have equally good outcomes as hstses
What are the right circumstances? How does that strategy work when they aren't androphilic?

>in natal females being ambitious and competitive is strongly correlated with other markers of neuromasculinization like gynephilia and masculine behaviour,
Why is the reverse not true for natal males?

>>8370606
Thats a great metaphor Trent. Unfortunately i'm a failed male AGP with a heavily masculinized body and skull. I get the feeling that I'd be more respected as an unambitious and uncompetitive male, than I would larping as a woman.

>>8370696
Why do you say you're failed anon?

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>>8370606
why is it punishing women if they're allegedly biologically predisposed to being helpless and lazy if they don't have mental masculinization?

>>8370700
Low paying retail job, never had a gf, not very smart, few friends, live with parents, over 30.

>>8370721
Not very smart in what way?

>>8370728
Have trouble remembering things, can be a slow learner, not very good at complex fast paced stuff.

>>8370749
But is your comprehension good when you do learn something, without time pressure? That's important.

>>8370479
No, I'm simply stating the laws of nature.
This is fact anon. Women have limited eggs, men have unlimited semen, naturally women seek out the most successful males to reproduce with.

Betas usually either get scraps or get to take care of the used goods. Just like in the animal kingdom.

Sorry anon, facts are facts.

>>8370757
Yes my comprehension is good.

>>8370622
I bet you're not even a female.
And I know plenty.

>>8370790
>I know enough females to know what they're all like

>>8370782
It's the fact women have the wombs that matters more than the theoretical limits on sperm and eggs.

>>8370799
You clearly have no idea what you're talking about anon, get with the program and do your research before spouting nonsense. Imbecile.

>>8370802
No not really, it's the fact they have a limited number of eggs. Guys have been known to be severely disappointed to find out if a partner is barren. There's a reason for that, a biological reason.

This behaviour is observed in all animals, not just humans.

>>8370782
The concept that women do not "compete" isnt a fact of nature, they DO compete with one another for mates. This is esp the case in societies that impose monogamy as the standard.

>Sorry anon, facts are facts

You're so full of shit, your eyes must be brown.

>>8370846
[citation needed]

>>8371068
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/health/fertility-cancer-drug-breakthrough-women-born-finite-number/

>>8371081
That doesn't explain why the number of eggs is relevant socially.

>>8370414
"support of the patriarchy" lmfao i love how women have this weird view of the patriarchy as being some thing where its men all encouraging eachother, supporting eachothers fee fees and shit

its nothing but a female delusion

>>8370479
You can't "live as both", you're spouting bullshit

>>8371083
>That doesn't explain why the number of eggs is relevant socially.

look anon, i don't want to be mean to you, but if you cant see how its relevant, all i can tell you to do is sit down and think about it for 5 minutes.

if you still dont understand, reply to this and i'll explain to you in detail.

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>>8370402
>man
>hard mode
lmao you should just kill yourself pussy.

>>8370495
> Circumcision is still seen as completely fine, while FGM is absolutely and rightfully unacceptable in the west.
You do realize that they're very different procedures?
Male circumcision, while not having any benefits, is mostly harmless unless botched.
A male equivalent of FGM would be chopping off the entire penis.

>>8370402
Being male/female is kinda similar to choosing a race in an RPG.
It will affect the way others treat you and how well your certain stats will grow as you level up and train.
But regardless of the difficulty, being a tranny basically makes it NG+.

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>>8370402
Speaking as a cisman, I'd just crossdress as needed, and then when I needed to manipulate people I'd dress like a girl and toy with people.

Fucking up my physical patterns with extra hormones to better fit an ideal I can pass easily with a bit of makeup is pointless. Besides, if this is just a chemical thing and like so many regretful trannies I'll just get over it in the future I won't have to undo constant decades of work.

I mean, if I need to, some breast reduction surgery but that's about all I'd need. Passing as men is easy.

>>8371386
Actually no. There are several levels to FGM just like the male version. Circumcision is one of the more benign levels. If I remember correctly the equivalent FGM would be removing some skin from the vulva.

>>8371386
>mostly harmless
Chopping off any part of a young person's genitals without their ability to consent to the procedure or even understand it is not 'harmless' at all.

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>>8371386

>>8370495
>feminism achieved equal rights but then cultural male-female dynamic which disadvantages men never shifted with it
Wrong.
There continues to be a male-male dynamic which disadvantages men.
Men cling on to masculinity, make each other suffer.
Then, as usual, they blame women.

>Divorce/custody courts were designed to favor wives because if their husbands ever left them, they used to not have the means to support themselves.
Precisely. I'm happy you acknowledge this.

>Now they do, but men are still largely fucked in legal cases.
How are men fucked in legal cases when resources are distributed equally in the case of divorce?
If you mean child custody: men tend to have much less incentive to keep the kids, and just let the woman keep them. And in a wicked twist, those men who aggressively insist on keeping the kids tend to be abusive men a lot of the time, so court cases rightfully favor the women in such cases.

>women claims of rape are taken so seriously that they can easily abuse it
This is absolute blatant bullshit. A sex predator is currently the president of the United States. He violently raped his ex-wife, trying to rip out her hair while doing so, has harassed teenage girls in beauty contests, and has openly admitted with his own words that he forces himself on women to kiss them. Leaving aside that individual case, there are tons of cases where
- the woman is too depressed, fearful, etc. to speak out in the first place
- the court puts absolutely unrealistic standards on the woman and uses ridiculous things like past sexual encounters (with the abuser or even strangers) as "evidence" that she "really wanted it"
- the man accused is highly popular and liked in many circles so the woman is socially persecuted for speaking out
etc.

>Men are shunned from ever admitting they are raped
This is true. It's important to note the cause of it though: masculinity. Something feminism has criticized forever and tries to destroy, whereas men cling on to it.

How the hell do males think they have it harder?

-Bigger
-Faster
-Stronger
-More pain tolerance
-Seen as more competent and capable
-Less prone to anxiety/depression
-No periods
-No pregnancy

Why do you think the world is 90% run by men (if not more) if men are using hard mode?

>>8372010

If feminism is trying to destroy masculinity then feminism is shit.

>>8370495
>Circumcision is still seen as completely fine
Although I don't support circumcision, its outcomes are medically mostly neutral.

>while FGM is absolutely and rightfully unacceptable in the west
Correct, though it actually happens more than you would think in western countries. More needs to be done to stop it.

>Even mtf get a ton of heat in society that they're secretly trying to rape people in women's bathrooms
Sexual assault is mostly committed by men -- males. There is no evidence for the implicit claim that transgender males commit less sexual assault than non-transgender males. There are many known cases of violent and/or sexual crimes committed by transgender males, despite their relatively small demographic:
https://bannedbytrans.wordpress.com/masterpost/

>while nobody tends to have any problem with ftms
Women who look like men actually get treated shit in bathrooms sometimes. But the thing is, FtMs aren't known to commit sexual assault in male-normal levels.

>Anyone who thinks men's rights is just a meme is oblivious to the current progression of society.
People who talk about men's rights in a way that puts up feminism as the opposition are oblivious to what really makes men suffer in society: patriarchy, racism, capitalism, etc., all of which are things feminists oppose.
The men who think feminists are the enemy are those who don't have the integrity, self-reflection, and courage needed to fight against patriarchal institutions, and instead try to batter down women's fight for liberation so they can continue to keep their dominance over women as a consolidation prize for taking part in and suffering under patriarchy.

>>8371963
Isn't the clitoris usually removed or otherwise heavily damaged? I mean, that's kinda the point - to hinder woman's ability to enjoy sex/masturbation.
>>8371987
Of course. I consider male circumcision to be a barbaric unnecessary practice that has no place in modern world.
I'm just saying that unlike FGM, it doesn't impair the person's ability to enjoy sex and masturbation.

>>8372011
Males are also harder and better, which is important too.

>>8372042

Male circumcision is beneficial enough its supported by the World Health Organization.

>>8370402
DYSPHORIA. I would love it if I was okay with being a girl. I'd be pretty high up on the social ladder, I would have lots of support and offers for the field I want to get into because it's male dominated. I would be able to have plenty of dates and relationships even with having super high standards. But life fucked me over, what a surprise.

>>8372011
>Less prone to anxiety/depression
You mean less likely to seek help for it because men are taught that having emotions is a weakness and weak men are looked down upon. Leading to social isolation, leading to higher rates of suicide.

>>8372092
>You mean less likely to seek help for it because men are taught that having emotions is a weakness

Nope. Less prone to it. Not talking about who "seeks help", but based on actual studies of the preponderance of anxiety/depression and other mood disorders as well as studies of the brain and our serotonin systems. Women are less able to regulate emotion in the face of stress than men are.

Fuck off with this weenie """""you mean less likely to seek help for it""""""""""" if you don't know what you are talking about. This is real and it might compound the problem, but science doesn't look at who is enrolled at the psych clinic. It looks at the amygdala, it looks at serotonin levels, it looks at personality and anxiety testing.

> and weak men are looked down upon. Leading to social isolation, leading to higher rates of suicide.

Women are far more likely to attempt suicide. Men's actual rate is higher for the same reason their homicide rate is higher--men use more violent methods, such as shooting themselves, whereas women use less violent and more fail-prone ways such as taking pills. 95% of suicide attempts end in survival.

ALSO "weak men are looked down upon"? More like weakness in general is looked down upon, and women are more likely to be weak. And more likely to be looked down upon.

>>8372030
>its outcomes are medically mostly neutral.
[citation needed]

>More needs to be done to stop it.
It's not a big deal. More people are hurt from bee stings or shark attacks than FGM.

>>8372042
No, no damage done to the clitoris with type 1 FGM. Only the hood of the clitoris is removed in that case. Which is pretty much the same as as circumcision.

>>8372136

Different anon but here, have the report from the World Health Organization:

http://apps.who.int/iris/bitstream/10665/43749/1/9789241596169_eng.pdf

>There is substantial evidence that male circumcision protects against several diseases, including urinary tract infections, syphilis, chancroid and invasive penile cancer, as well as HIV. However, as with any surgical procedure, there are risks involved. Neonatal circumcision is a simpler procedure than adolescent or adult circumcision and has a very low rate of adverse events, which are usually minor (0.2–0.4%). Adolescent or adult circumcision can be associated with bleeding, haematoma or sepsis, but these are treatable and there is little evidence of long-term sequelae when undertaken in a clinical setting with experienced providers.

So pretty much circumcision is vastly beneficial for preventing STI, UTI, cancer, etc. There is a very very slight risk of complication when done in infancy < 1%, and a larger but still treatable risk of complication when done in adulthood.

> One study, using data from 350 000 neonatal circumcisions in Washington State, United States of America, observed a complication rate of 0.2%, and concluded that six urinary tract infections would be prevented for every complication (143).

In the USA, where there is better hygiene practices, you prevent 6 UTIs for every 1 adverse effect (and keep in mind adverse effects are minor). In the third world? Its not even a contest, circumcision is far preferable than leaving a foreskin on and damaging your immune system.

In before "MUH DICK"

>>8372185
>is vastly beneficial
It's not and supposed studies saying that are dodgy as fuck and there's plenty of studies saying the opposite too and that female circumcision is beneficial too.

>>8372216
Dude, circumcision and FGM are like getting your tonsils removed vs. having your tongue cut off from the root. It's just not comparable.

>>8372216
>It's not and supposed studies saying that are dodgy as fuck

The WORLD HEALTH ORGANIZATION is "dodgy as fuck"?

That's not a single study either, that's the general field as it stands, compiling many many studies (almost 200) from around the world. Its intactivist studies which are in the minority there. This is like denying vaccinations because of a few flawed and debunked anti-vaxxer studies.

> there's plenty of studies saying the opposite too
Nah, there are some, made usually by intactivists with an ideological axe to grind. (People like yourself, who put ~~~intactivism~~~ first and actual science and evidence second, looking only for the studies which agree and ignoring the majority which do not).

>>8372185
Sure there are benefits to cutting off parts of babies penises, but I don't see anyone advocating mandatory mastectomys for teenage girls to prevent breast cancer or eye gouging to stop glaucoma, so like

>>8372011
>-Bigger
>-Faster
>-Stronger
only if you win genetic loterry/work very hard

>-More pain tolerance
this is just factually incorrect

>-Seen as more competent and capable
only if you actually project confidence

>-Less prone to anxiety/depression
this is just factually incorrect

>-No periods
>-No pregnancy
this is correct

>>8372252

Because in those cases the drawbacks exceed the benefits. With circumcision you have a <1% of complications when done in infancy. The foreskin has no known function.

>>8372268
>The foreskin has no known function
this stupidity is painful to read

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>>8372256
>only if you win genetic loterry/work very hard
Nah, pic related. If you aren't a literal cripple you will top women in these areas. Even if you are some mediocre weenie who watches youtube all day you can kick the ass of 99% of women.

>this is just factually incorrect
Nope:
>Males typically have larger tracheae and branching bronchi, with about 56% greater lung volume per body mass. They also have larger hearts, 10% higher red blood cell count, higher haemoglobin, hence greater oxygen-carrying capacity. In athletes, the difference in oxygen-carrying capacity between men and women is much less prominent. They also have higher circulating clotting factors (vitamin K, prothrombin and platelets). These differences lead to faster healing of wounds and higher peripheral pain tolerance.[40]
>In addition to defined diseases and syndromes, many common "everyday" pains appear to overburden women rather than men. Therefore, studies consistently find that women report more severe pain, more frequent pain, longer-lasting pain, and wider-ranging pain than men.[110] For example, common painful conditions such as dysmenorrhea may predispose females to more widespread musculoskeletal pains.
>Females also report a higher prevalence of many pain-related diseases and syndromes, particularly auto-immune diseases. In a 2005 study, Holdcroft and Beckley show a higher female prevalence of many conditions of the head and neck (e.g., migraine), limbs (e.g., carpal tunnel syndrome), internal organs (IBS), and more general conditions (multiple sclerosis).[109]

>only if you actually project confidence
Nope, even in identical resumes, men are seen as more competent. But yes, acting like an unconfident weenie will hurt men just like it hurts women oh wow fuck off.

TBC

>>8372276

You sound really sour.

Almost like it impairs your objectivity. :^)

>>8372276
It's not stupidity. It's denial, because the alternative is admitting his parents mutilated him.

>>8372256

>this is just factually incorrect

Also nope:

> it has been found that women are actually more than twice as likely as men to be susceptible to depressive episodes and generalized anxiety, and additionally that progesterone levels in females actually stall the body's ability to turn off stressor hormones resulting in women entering depressive episodes at even lower levels of stress than men.[103]
>Additionally, depression and chronic anxiety are much more common in women than in men, and it has been speculated, by some, that this is due to differences in the brain's serotonin system).[97]
>Women are more likely to suffer from depression, biologically explained by the serotonin levels of men being 52% higher than women.
>Women are more likely to suffer from unipolar depression, anxiety, eating disorders, and post-traumatic stress disorder.
>The amygdala, which is the structure that responds to emotionally arousing information, respond to the environment and reacts with stress. The male amygdala is proportionally larger than that in women, causing sex to be a determining factor in reactions to stress...Katharina Braun and company (Otto von Guericke University, Magdeburg, Germany) studied a litter of Degu puppies removed from their mother and determined that hearing their mother's call produced a higher concentration of serotonin in males' amygdala and a decreased concentration in females' amygdala. In this case, stress causes females' emotion regulation to drop, while males seem to keep more of an even keel. While this study was limited to rodents, it provides a possible explanation of why anxiety disorders occur more often among human females than males.[98]
>Meta-analytic studies have also found males on average to be more assertive and having higher self-esteem. Females were on average higher than males in extraversion, anxiety, trust, and, especially, tender-mindedness (e.g., nurturance).[74]

TBC

>>8372302
I'm not the person you was responding to.

I do have my foreskin intact and I feel bad for people who were mutilated by (((big pharma))) just so some old hag could look little less old.

>>8372185
>and keep in mind adverse effects are minor
Deaths from circumcisions are estimated at 100-2000 per year in the US alone.

KYS.

>>8372327
Well, I'm not the person *you* were responding to. But OK.

>>8372256
continued from >>8372320

>Women have higher rates of anxiety and depression (internalizing disorders) and men have higher rates of substance abuse and antisocial disorders (externalizing disorders).
>Major depression to be about twice as common in women as in men, although it is unclear why this is so, and whether factors unaccounted for are contributing to this.[246]
>Suicide attempts are between two and four times more frequent among females.[6][7][8]
>About 12% of people are affected by an anxiety disorder in a given year and between 5-30% are affected at some point in their life.[44][45] They occur about twice as often in females as males

>>8372332

Nah bullshit.
>Severe to catastrophic complications, including death, are so rare that they are reported only as individual case reports.[4][67]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circumcision

Unless you have some incredibly crap bullshit loaded "intactivist" study.

>>8372316
I'm a cis woman.

>>8372320
>>8372338
Female depression is a meme.
Proof: male vs. female suicide rates

>>8372338
>Major depression to be about twice as common in women as in men
Probably because they don't have real issues or difficulties in their lives, leaving them empty and purposeless. Princess syndrome.

Female privilege hurts women too.

>>8372344
>I'm a cis woman.
then you are very uneducated cis woman
foreskin protects penis when it's not used
even with proper circumcision it's much harded to masturbate and penis is desensitized

>>8372344
>I'm a cis woman.
...

>>8372368
>then you are very uneducated cis woman
Of course she is. Why shouldn't she be? She has the privilege of being able to dismiss issues that don't affect her.

>>8372345

>Suicide attempts are between two and four times more frequent among females.[6][7][8]
>The reported difference in suicide rates for males and females is partially a result of the methods used by each gender. Although females attempt suicide at a higher rate,[6][7] they are more likely to use methods that are less immediately lethal.[5][9][10] Males frequently complete suicide via high mortality actions such as hanging, carbon-monoxide poisoning, and firearms. This is in contrast to females, who tend to rely on drug overdosing.[23]
(so their higher ""suicide rate"" is for the same reasons as their higher homicide rate--they use more violent methods, whereas women try to poison themselves. 95% of suicide attempts end in failure
>The extent of suicidal thoughts is not clear, but research suggests that suicidal thoughts are more common among females than among males.[8][12]

>>8372354
Nah, women also face higher rates of poverty. Also see: >>8372011 . Everything is stacked against women from day 1. Men are literally the superior gender and literally run the world and will still bitch and whine about "female privilege" because they can't get as many replies on OK Cupid. Fuck it.

But yes, women do have more severe reactions to more mild stressors. That's the whole point of various studies. Under the same stressor men (whether by nature or nurture) have better emotional regulation in the brain. They have lower serotonin and larger amygdala. So women are far more likely to develop PTSD, anxiety, depression, etc. Being woman means you are not just physically weaker but emotionally weaker too.

>>8372344
>"intactivist"
Why the scarequotes?

>>8372403

Not scare quotes, normal quotes. I'm quoting their retarded meme name. Like "alt-right" or "anti-vaxxers" or whatever.

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>>8372345
Masculinity forces men to turn frustration inside and kill themselves instead of admit weakness.

>>8372354
Kek. If men get more depressed, it's because they are Many Man Facing Many Hardships in Life. If women get more depressed, it's just Princess Syndrome.

You're a joke.

>>8372368
>even with proper circumcision it's much harded to masturbate and penis is desensitized
This is a blatant lie.

t. circumcised man

>>8372393
You are my favorite person of today anon. Usually it's a lonely battle against MRAs.

>>8372415
>Many Man
Manly Men*

Comes out I can't type while simultaneously laughing my ass off.

>>8372087
>implying they know the first thing about health

>>8372268
>The foreskin has no known function.
w e w

>>8372393
>Although females attempt suicide at a higher rate,[6][7] they are more likely to use methods that are less immediately lethal.
In other words, men who commit suicide die. It's a real issue. Women who "attempt" it end up costing the rest of society their healthcare bills. Parasitizing society and forcing people who actually deserve medical care, such as HIV positive LGBT people and trans people needing surgeries and HRT, to pay for their female stupidity.

Women who "attempt" suicide should lose all health coverage for life and receive no treatment. Their property should go to help cover the treatment of people who actually need it.

>so their higher ""suicide rate"" is for the same reasons as their higher homicide rate
>95% of suicide attempts end in failure
You need to break that figure down by gender for it to mean anything. Your own quote contradicts you: "is partially a result".

>women also face higher rates of poverty.
Women get more support in terms of shelter and the rest to get out of "poverty". Women can't be in actual poverty. It is only a problem for men.

>Being woman means you are not just physically weaker but emotionally weaker too.
You are a misogynist.

ITT: Jews and cucks.

Yeah keep cutting foreskins off and paying alimony!

>The foreskin has no known function.

This is actually true though.

>The World Health Organization state that there is "debate about the role of the foreskin, with possible functions including keeping the glans moist, protecting the developing penis in utero, or enhancing sexual pleasure due to the presence of nerve receptors".[23]

We have hypotheses, but there is no *known* function of the foreskin.

Why are the hons on this board so delusional?

>>8372446
>Women who "attempt" it end up costing the rest of society their healthcare bills. Parasitizing society and forcing people who actually deserve medical care, such as HIV positive LGBT people and trans people needing surgeries and HRT, to pay for their female stupidity.
>...
>You are a misogynist.

W E W L A D
E
W
L
A
D

>>8372368

Nah it doesn't "protect the penis" because foreskins lead to HIGHER rates of UTI, STI, cancer, etc. (See >>8372185 It does the opposite of "protect the penis", it actually hurts the penis (and the man attached). What kind of "protection" leads you to higher rates of infection and cancer?
The foreskin likely has SOME function much like the appendix etc (perhaps one in utero?), and this function is still being investigated, but "protection" isn't it.

>There is debate about the role of the foreskin, with possible functions including keeping the glans moist (92), protecting the developing penis in utero (73), or enhancing sexual pleasure due to the presence of nerve receptors (93)

>even with proper circumcision it's much harded to masturbate and penis is desensitized
Nah. Once again from the World Health Organization:

>The impact of circumcision on sexual function has not been systematically reviewed, and remains unclear due to substantial biases in many studies.
>Although it has been argued that sexual function may diminish following circumcision due to the removal of the nerve endings in the foreskin and subsequent thickening of the epithelium of the glans (93), there is little evidence for this and studies are inconsistent (4, 43, 146–148).
> So far, four out of 1131 HIV-1 negative men reported mild or moderate erectile dysfunction 21 months after the surgery in the Orange Farm Intervention Trial but it is unclear whether this was a pre-existing problem for any of them (130).

4 out of 1131 have mild or moderate erectile dysfunction and we don't even know if that was a prior problem. This is in grown men too, and circumcision is more complicated in adults, and yet still it effected < 1% without knowing if it was a prior problem. The only studies which have shown this were weighted with bias (aka "intactivist" """studies""") and haven't been able to be reviewed systemically.

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>>8372446
>Women get more support in terms of shelter and the rest to get out of "poverty". Women can't be in actual poverty. It is only a problem for men.

Anon, I...

>>8372410
What's an accurate name then?

>>8372466
That chart is clearly wrong. Properly defined poverty would be 0 for all women.

>>8372446
>men who commit suicide die. It's a real issue.
Nah, most of them fail too. Suicide is tricky to do. Men are more successful, but when 95% of suicides are failure its not just the women failing.
>Parasitizing society and forcing people who actually deserve medical care, such as HIV positive LGBT people and trans people needing surgeries and HRT, to pay for their female stupidity.
DURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR. Suicidal people need it, yes, depression is a huge issue and they deserve care. Also women are more likely to be LGBT. So wtf is that stupid dichotomy.

>You need to break that figure down by gender for it to mean anything.
Do the math yourself. Women are 2-4x more likely to attempt suicide then men. Period. So don't try to tell me male depression is more serious because they use more violent methods.
>Women get more support in terms of shelter and the rest to get out of "poverty". Women can't be in actual poverty. It is only a problem for men.
Oh okay you are trolling whatever.

>You are a misogynist.
I'm a realist. Its just true. I'm not going to sit around pretend men have it soooo tough when they get almost every biological, psychological and even most social advantages possible.

>>8372458
>I should be rewarded for screwing over people who actually deserve healthcare and if you disagree then my being a sexist doesn't count

>>8372488
>Suicidal people need it
Women cannot be suicidal. They can only be "suicidal" and the ones who are don't deserve any help for being so selfish and sociopathic.

>>8372493
What?? The post you're quoting puts forth absolutely no arguments, it only points out the extreme hypocrisy in your post. What made you think it warrants a response such as yours?

>>8372507
>Oh okay you are trolling whatever.

>>8372011
>Bigger
There are always bigger men who have no problem letting you know about it with zero help from anyone else. If you can't bulk up, guess you're fucked.

>Faster

There are always faster men who have no problem letting you know about it with zero help from anyone else. If you can't keep up, society spits in your face essentially.

>Stronger
There are always stronger men who have no problem letting you know about it, so you better choose your fights wisely because it's not like anyone's really going to have your back.

>More pain tolerance

Even if that might be true in some cases–you know what? No. That's just false.

>Seen as more competent and capable

Doesn't mean shit if you don't happen to be THE most competent and capable man in the room. Remember, every waking moment you spend with a penis is a moment society expects you to fight tooth-and-nail for every ounce of respect you get, usually for the end-goal of making things better for others.

>Less prone to anxiety/depression

.....See: worldwide suicide rates by gender, PTSD rates (especially since men are far more likely to be involved in military conflict at some point in their lives). Men are about as naturally likely to be depressed as women and circumstantially far MORE likely. Just expected to shut up and "nut up" about it.

sources:
https://afsp.org/about-suicide/suicide-statistics/

http://www.who.int/gho/mental_health/suicide_rates_male_female/en/

https://www.forbes.com/sites/alicegwalton/2012/09/24/the-gender-inequality-of-suicide-why-are-men-at-such-high-risk/#f160f373ba87

>No periods
Fair enough.

>No pregnancy
Fair enough.

In every way, shape and form, good or bad, better or worse, you will never escape the fact that men are forced to perform, compete and serve. And while a lot of us are admittedly arrogant and aggressive (sometimes dangerous) we are constantly having to fight for our worth.

>>8372516
>in 2017 people taking responsibility for their actions is "extreme hypocrisy"

If you transition because you WANT to be the opposite sex, you're not trans at all. The only legitimate reason to transition is dysphoria, it has nothing to do with the perks of being the opposite sex.

>>8372338

>Suicide attempts are between two and four times more frequent among females.[6][7][8]

https://afsp.org/about-suicide/suicide-statistics/

http://www.who.int/gho/mental_health/suicide_rates_male_female/en/

https://www.forbes.com/sites/alicegwalton/2012/09/24/the-gender-inequality-of-suicide-why-are-men-at-such-high-risk/#f160f373ba87

You were saying?
Even if depression/anxiety is more common in females, suicide rates (not just attempts) are far, far more common in men. I'm not tying it to victim mentality, identity politics or oppression Olympics. But facts are facts are facts.

>>8372521
If women could be suicidal they would actually commit suicide instead of accidentally dying as a justly deserved consequence of their attempt to leech off the healthcare of people with actual issues.

>>8370402
> FtMs auto-pass at any age.
Just add binder. There are literally, physically no FtM hons. T is one hell of a drugs.

> No. Periods. Ever.
This alone worth it.

> Male privilege
Means better jobs, POSITIVE discrimination if you have children, a better salary, etc.

> Harder, better, faster, stonger.
T aids muscle production. We have learned it in ye olde days when the DDR doped its sportswomen with testosterone. Some of them just went on with it, and lived the rest of their days as male.

> Gender dysphoria
FtMs are male with boobs, and no benis. How would you feel if you had ... it cut down? And that everyone expected you to dress in a dress, wear heels, and put on makeup? (Ok, this IS /tttt/, so there is a chance you are OK with it, but still....)

>>8372527
>There are always bigger men who have no problem letting you know about it with zero help from anyone else. If you can't bulk up, guess you're fucked.
No idea what you are talking about. Are you stupid? We are talking about the whole gender here. Men are bigger than women.
>There are always faster men who have no problem letting you know about it with zero help from anyone else. If you can't keep up, society spits in your face essentially.
Men are faster than women. Even mediocre men can outrun a woman.
>There are always stronger men who have no problem letting you know about it, so you better choose your fights wisely because it's not like anyone's really going to have your back.
Men are stronger than women. Even a medicore man can beat up a strong woman and she can't do shit but hope he stops or has some sympathy.
>Even if that might be true in some cases–you know what? No. That's just false.
Nope. See: >>8372295 It is true.
>Doesn't mean shit if you don't happen to be THE most competent and capable man in the room
Men are seen as more competent than women and are more respected than women. Even a mediocre man, not the most confident man, a normal man, will be seen as more competent than women. 2 identical resumes, 1 male, 1 female? The man will be seen as more competent.

AND men have higher confidence than women do, so if you want to bitch about "muh confidence" remember women have less confidence than men.

TBC

>>8372527
>>8372551


>....See: worldwide suicide rates by gender, PTSD rates (especially since men are far more likely to be involved in military conflict at some point in their lives).
Women are actually more prone to PTSD:

> It was found that lifetime prevalence of traumatic events was a little higher in men than in women. However, following exposure to a traumatic event, the risk for PTSD was two times higher in women. It is believed this difference is due to the greater risk women have of developing PTSD after a traumatic event that involved assaultive violence. In fact, the probability of a woman developing PTSD following assaultive violence was 36% compared to 6% of men. The duration of PTSD is longer in women, as well.[109]

ALSO women are more prone to suicide attempt and ideation, see: >>8372393 . Men's higher real rate is done due to more violent methods (much like their homicide rate). Its not due to the fact that """"men have it harder""" when men have better mental health and are less prone to suicidal depression period. ~Facts are facts are facts.~

> men are forced to perform, compete and serve.
lol women are expected to be more servile, with aggression being more highly punished in women.
Humans are expected to "compete and perform". Welcome to existing as a human being.

>>8372555
>Oh okay you are trolling whatever.

>>8372581
Women having higher suicide attempt rate while men having much higher actual suicide rate points to three things

>women are more stupid or ignorant than men
>women are more incompetent than men
>women attempting suicide aren't serious about ending their life or have ulterior motives for suicide

Women are more likely to have PTSD because men's lives are harder naturally and they're more prepared for stress and traumatic events. Men have to adapt to having no support or help.

>>8372565
Can you not understand implication by comparison? I know what you were discussing. In case it wasn't obvious, I'm pointing out that in comparison to what literally every man is faced with in being forced to compete with other men day in and day out for resources/money/power, they actually do have it worse than women in a lot of ways.

Women do have most if not all of the disadvantages you've cited, with the caveat privilege that at the end of the day no one's shaming them for gaining help from the system or from men. I'm not saying that's ideal or that it's not debasing, but it's true. Society will always view a disadvantaged women in a far better light than a disadvantaged man. Even if some of our politicians don't act like it. Even if men are physically stronger and have natural defenses at their disposal.

People scream about entitled men when in reality a very small percentage of them actually reap real benefits of those advantages. What do they matter if you haven't the strength, power, insensitivity and money to back it up?

>>8370402
d y s p h o r i a

>>8372601

>Women having higher suicide attempt rate while men having much higher actual suicide rate points to three things

I won't bother arguing these. Maybe women are stupider or more incompetent. But that just means women have it harder, because it is harder to be stupid and incompetent and survive in thsi world than intelligent and competent.
Really the answer is that women are less violent and use less violent methods (pills). Very well established but if you are trying to argue the point that "women have it easy" then you can't also say "women are incompetent and stupid" because that would be yet ANOTHER thing on the pile of things that women have it harder on.

>men's lives are harder naturally and they're more prepared for stress and traumatic events
Nah, see >>8372011, >>8372320 and >>8372393 . Being less prone to PTSD has more to do with your amygdala and serotonin levels than how ~~~~~haaaard~~~~ you have it.

If mens lives are soooo haaaaaard why are men running like 90% of the world? From the most shit podunk village clan to the most powerful superpowers? If not more? Some fucking 'hard mode'. Men have all the help women have and then some.

>>8372601
All of the above.

>>8372614
>I'm pointing out that in comparison to what literally every man is faced with in being forced to compete with other men day in and day out for resources/money/power, they actually do have it worse than women in a lot of ways.
Nah bullshit. "I have it better than every woman but I have to compete against men!!! And some men have it better than me!!" The fuck? Nah. Women have to compete against men too, in every area except pro sports and maybe dating. In those areas, women compete against women and some women have it better than other women too.
>with the caveat privilege that at the end of the day no one's shaming them for gaining help from the system or from men.
Yeah they are. Women who depend on men (like housewives or what have you) get shit talked all the time for being "golddiggers" or useless or bad. Women get shit talked for being crazy, for being incompetent, for being weak. And the "help from the system" is mostly very garbage desu, there are some programs for women but only if they are single mothers because single mothers by far get the most poverty and are also blamed for it. Modern women are expected to be extremely beautiful, just as capable and emotionally stable as a man with none of the biological advantages, and economically successful (with a heavy motherhood penalty and being seen as less competent to a man with an identical resume) while also being approachable to men. Women are now less happy than they were pre-feminism because we have all the shit weaknesses and now are expected to compete alongside men and get shit talk when we can't.

TBC

>>8372614

> Society will always view a disadvantaged women in a far better light than a disadvantaged man.
1) Not even true
2) Not even relevant, all women are disadvantaged based on their gender. They are weaker, slower, smaller, more anxious/depressed, etc etc etc than they would have been if they were men. If I had a Y chromosome I would be looking at a far lower chance of anxiety, a far better ability to regulate my emotion, I would be seen as more competent, I'd be stronger and be able to fight back better if another man came and hit me.

Same with you. You are feeling so down on yourself for having it sooo haaard because some men have it harder than you, but meanwhile you still have it easier than women. You want the same garbage """single mom""" help programs that women get? That still aren't enough to actually put women on the same playing field that men get NATURALLY WITHOUT ANY PROGRAMS? Men are STILL running circles around women even with whatever stupid meager underfunded programs there are to maybe help some women (mostly single moms who are always blamed for their own fate).

>>8372677
>some men have it harder than you,
*better than you

Like some women don't also have it better than other women shit.

>>8372671
>Women who depend on men (like literally all of them)
FTFY

>>8372684

Not necessarily all, at least on an individual level (on a societal level we all depend on each other). But yes, many more outside of housewives, housewives just get the most shit for it. Women often have to lean on men as a survival tactic, especially in the third world but also in the most-feminist "liberated women" world.

The world is a nasty place.

>>8372703
>on a societal level we all depend on each other
Who pays the taxes.

Who receives them.

>>8372719
Lots of people pay taxes. The richer you are the more you pay, and men are richer than women. HOWEVER, you don't generate wealth through your ass, you generate it from society, including men and women who work for you and buy your products. No man is an island.

Everyone receives tax dollars in one form or another, through military/police protection, government representation, roads, schools (assuming you attended public school), various government subsidies etc.
Single mothers are the most impoverished and it wouldn't surprise me if they get the most welfare monies (still meager as shit btw). But they are raising the future generations, extremely necessary to the future and to society. The elderly also receive a lot of welfare monies but they did their part to build on what the future is currently building on.

>>8372641
The whole male gender isn't running the world only the top 1%. Maybe the people who have it the best are men but the average man has it worse than the average woman.

>>8370414
>>8370479
>>8370622
You people live in a fucking bubble.
80% of all women who have ever lived have reproduced, while only 40% of all men who have ever lived have reproduced.
You're given a potential free ticket to never have to fucking work for anything in your own life, and never having to stress about your own survival because your fucking vagina can easily provide economic security.
Society expects men to fend for themselves physically, sexually, economically, and socially, while women are to be protected in every one of these aspects.
I'm not a bitch and a victim so idgaf and I'll play with the cards I'm dealt and honestly I wouldn't want to stop being a man because despite the social disadvantages, the biological advantages are fucking cool. But seeing you pampered leftist bitches constantly moan about "DURR OPPPRESHUN OF WMMYN" is hilarious, especially when women tend to have more/stronger social connections than men and are much less likely to die prematurely/be murdered than men are. Your retarded brand of Marxism is given a platform and the time of day while any criticism of it carries social consequences. Those facts alone are proof positive that being a man is hard mode; go fuck yourselves.

>>8372737
This edging around admitting the disparity in payment and benefiting.

>>8371350
It is hard mode but hard mode is good.
What kind of pussy faggot picks easy mode?

>>8372774
A woman.

File: genderinc.jpg (41KB, 737x486px) Image search: [Google]

41KB, 737x486px

>>8372466
>>8372487
All that chart really proves is that women are worse with money.
There are actually far more impoverished men, it's just that most of them end up in prison for you know... trying to escape poverty :^^^)
Oh and let's not forget that women get much lighter sentences for the same crimes! Silly patriarchy got it wrong!

>>8372769
>The whole male gender isn't running the world only the top 1%. Maybe the people who have it the best are men but the average man has it worse than the average woman.

Nah he doesn't, see >>8372011 all of which apply to """the average man""". Also how do you think all the people who have it "the best" are almost all men?

>>8372773
Wtf I don't even know what you are talking about.

If you truly believe this why have you not transitioned to be a woman then?

>>8372771
citation needed

>>8372824
>asking this
>on /tttt/

>>8372771

You are just saying that women can use their vagina to get economic security--as in, women can get economic security from men. As in, women need to depend on men. As in, men have it so much better than women they can give economic security to other peopel when women struggle to obtain it for themselves.

>Society expects men to fend for themselves physically, sexually, economically, and socially, while women are to be protected in every one of these aspects.
Bullshit this sentence says nothing and means nothing. Men have physical protection (police etc) on top of the fact they naturally have greater physical protection (stronger and faster than women). Men have sexual protection (police, condoms etc) on top of the greater NATURAL protection (not susceptible to pregnancy). Men have economic protection (welfare programs, insurance), on top of greater SOCIAL protection (seen as more competent in the workplace).

Not even a feminist, I am a realist. Also people criticize feminists all the time, being a feminist also has social consequences. That's life. Oh no not consequences.

>>8372851
You mean women exploit men.

>>8372851
Thank you for this post.

>>8372859
You should work on your reading comprehension.

>>8372859

Nah, not outside of the most broad possible definition of "exploit". If women need to depend on men to survive, and men voluntarily help some women (the women who have sex with them aka "use their vaginas"), then thats just life. Men don't have it rough. They have it far far better than women. They are still stronger, more socially favored, more emotionally stable, can't get pregnant, etc. They run the world (and by the world I don't just mean governments but pretty much everything in the world--they run the businesses, the militaries, the govt institutions, the nongovernmental institutions, the churches/mosques, etc etc etc).

And you are bitching because why? Single mom welfare monies?

Women are evil. Back when I was in school, all the girls used to bully me, strip me down naked, and stick things up my butt.

>>8372812
why are you putting scare quotes around average man?
> Bigger
Okay and?
>Faster
Again and? How does that affect most people in their day to day lives or count towards someone being "better".
>Stronger
I'll give you that one
>More pain tolerance
Can I get a citation that isn't just based on self reporting?
>Seen as more competent and capable
In terms of what?
>Less prone to anxiety and depression
I mean I'd be more concerned about the higher rates of suicide for men than women (yes even though women have more attempts for not using lethal methods) as a measure of who has it harder but okay.
>No periods
No chance of being hit in the nuts, no prostate problems, no normalised circumcision, no blue balls, no erectile dysfunction
>No pregnancy
You can chose to not get pregnant but even so big disadvantage getting to create life inside you

Here let me name some random things
>More likely to be a victim of violent crime
>More likely to be incarcerated
>The draft
>Higher suicide rate
>Constantly being told to man up - leads to less reports of mental and physical health issues along with domestic abuse and rape and less emotional support when they do
>Higher rate of homelessness
>Less likely to win custody in court
>Higher workplace deaths
>Lack of male shelters
>Die at a younger age
>Less likely to enter higher education
>Harder in the dating world - Women find 80% men below average looking

>>8372963
>Okay and?
>Again and? How does that affect most people in their day to day lives or count towards someone being "better".
Have it better than the average women. In a survival scenario or in just day to day living. So men can reach stuff easier, they can spend less time getting ready because they can walk faster, they can run away from danger easier, intimidate others easier.
>Can I get a citation that isn't just based on self reporting?
Any pain study requires some self-reports, but see >>8372295. Men have higher clotting factors and lower pain related disease/syndromes. and also see http://www.livescience.com/433-ouch-women-feel-pain.html, women literally have more pain receptors than men do.
>In terms of what?
Working.
>I mean I'd be more concerned about the higher rates of suicide for men than women (yes even though women have more attempts for not using lethal methods) as a measure of who has it harder but okay.
That would be very stupid of you, because like you say, women do attempt more AND women also suffer from greater rates of depression/anxiety in general. You are being very very selective if you want to just look at suicide instead of the larger picture of depression and mental illness.

>More likely to be a victim of violent crime
>More likely to be incarcerated
More likely to be violent towards others.
>Higher suicide rate
Yet face far lower mental illness and suicidal ideation, this is purely an artifact of men being more violent

>The draft
Irrelevant almost anywhere in the modern day unless you are South Korean or something.

>Less likely to win custody in court
Not true if the male actually seeks custody. Women win custody so often only because men are less likely to want and seek custody

>Higher workplace deaths
>Die at a younger age
Due to higher risk-taking, something which also very much benefits men overall.

>>8372963

>why are you putting scare quotes around average man?
Not a scare quote. Regular quote.

>Higher rate of homelessness
>Lack of male shelters
>Less likely to enter higher education
Yet still face LOWER poverty and are LESS likely to be burdened with children or be dependent on men for economic security (which is why womens shelters exist, for women who are dependent on men and can't leave otherwise, women also face higher rates of sexual abuse at normal shelters).

Also men not entering college is a CHOICE they make, and a man straight out of highschool makes as much as a woman with her associates degree (before she gets hit with her motherhood penalty). It's not something inherent to being male. That's like me bitching that women have it tough because they are less likely to enter engineering.

Like same thing with prison, custody and workplace death. Most of your examples are things men choose to some degree or another and effect maybe a tiny amount of men, meanwhile my examples are all things that are inherent to being female and effect ALL women or a very very large amount of women.

>>8372963
>>8373058

Like fuck I specifically didn't include "poverty" or "suicide attempts" in my list even though women suffer far higher rates of poverty and suicidal thoughts/attempts because its partially due to secondary factors/choice and I didn't want to open that can of worms but rather tackle actual primary things that women don't choose.

Then you fart along "durrrrr muh suicide muh prison muh college enrollment". Fuck off.

>>8372922
How did they get away with it?

>>8373076
>Then you fart along "durrrrr muh suicide muh prison muh college enrollment". Fuck off.
wow no wonder people think women are bitches when you act like this.

>>8373076
>Then you fart along "durrrrr muh suicide muh prison muh college enrollment". Fuck off.
Because it doesn't matter if men are killing themselves, being unjustly imprisoned or being set back educationally.

>>8373165
no cause they choose that stuff unlike getting pregnant which happens to all women immediately on their day of reckoning

>>8373165

>being unjustly imprisoned
He didn't say "unjustly imprisoned". Just more likely to be put in prison period, which is meaningless if the men are choosing to commit crimes. If you want to say more men are WRONGLY convicted then please do.

>Because it doesn't matter if men are killing themselves...or being set back educationally.
It does matter. BUT both are a result of choice. Complaining about men not entering college is like when feminists complain women aren't entering engineering. (Except even stupider because its a smaller gap). Its a choice. What do you want society to do, force more men to go to college?

Plenty of men go into college and that number is increasing every year. Worldwide, men are far more educated. College is more accessible than ever before, for men and women alike. But oh no!!! Women now make up 57% of college enrollments in a single country even though they are only 51% of the population! This must mean men have it tough somehow!! Magically! Even though they still are less prone to poverty! Like fuck off.

Men having higher suicide rate is ESPECIALLY hypocritical too when that poster knows women are more likely to be suicidal and its only a difference of method.

>>8373163
>wow no wonder people think women are bitches when you act like this.
Welcome to 4chan, I have real problems in life beyond "people think women are bitches".

>>8373233
>Just more likely to be put in prison period,
Do you think the racial disparity is because blacks commit more crimes too?

>its only a difference of method.
[citation needed]

>>8373233
>its only a difference of method.
Oh only a difference of method. Not like they can't just try again with a more lethal method and be more successful next time if they really wanted to die.

>>8373165
>>8373233

IF you want to bitch about men being only 43% of the college kids, then I get to bitch about ALL the places women are even remotely underrepresented. 43% is considered pretty damn good representation for women. If a certain profession or college major is 43% women, thats damn good enough. I didn't list a single case about representation because its so largely integrated with human choice and ultimately who cares.

Men get 43%? "We have it soooooo haaaaaaaard".

>>8373271
>Do you think the racial disparity is because blacks commit more crimes too?
Maybe? There is however actual proof black people are wrongly convicted more than white people though and are more scrutinized by police, so that accounts for some of the gap if not all of it. But Black people =/= men. (Black people also face higher poverty than white people do, unlike men who face less poverty than women yet still commit more crime.)

There is no such evidence for men being WRONGFULLY convicted as far as I could find. He certainly didn't even claim so in his post. So we are left which just "men go to prison more" which is like....and? Don't commit violent crimes.

>[citation needed]
see >>8372393


>>8373183
If I want kids of my own, I need to get pregnant. If humanity wants to survive at all, women need to get pregnant. They suffer motherhood penalties and major health risks for this. It is absolutely required for us as a species.

Nobody is forcing men to not go to college, men don;t need to not go to college for us to survive as a species, and in fact more men are going to college than ever. Its the most asinine thing I ever heard. And its fucking 43/57 too, which as far as bitching about representation goes is laughable. Should have gone with nursing or womens studies or something.

>>8373163
>>8373165
You do realize that you're saying this to the MRA-ish person?

Yes, of course male suicide matters, and of course unjust imprisonment is wrong. There are areas where men are socially disadvantaged. but OVERALL men have it easier.

PRO-TIP: Don't play 'oppression olympics' if you're bound to lose.

Related: do y'all realize that women are only committing 14.7% of all murders?

Source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1635092

So men ARE actually more violent. This can be explained by toxic masculinity: 'boys don't cry', 'be a man', in other words, be tough and don't have emotions. Which increases suicide rates and makes men 85% of all murderers.

You wanna talk about people avoiding personal responsibility?

Some men literally don't have coping skills apart from murder and suicide. Which isn't even their fault! But they still have to keep themselves in check because, guess what, people don't like murderers.

>>8373302
Yes they can, and a prior attempt is a huge risk factor in a later, successful attempt (or yet another failed attempt) if the person doesn't receive serious intervention

And? At the end of the day, men are far more mentally healthy in terms of deression/anxiety, women are far more suicidal, and you just use the tiny amount of men who successfully shoot themselves NOT because you are a suicide victim yourself, but in order to win an internet argument and prove how haaaaaard you have it. Because other men committed suicide.

So stupid.

>>8373343

>You do realize that you're saying this to the MRA-ish person?
I'm not an "MRA-ish person" (whatever that is). I am a realist.

>>8370664
>What are the right circumstances? How does that strategy work when they aren't androphilic?

A lot of failed males AGPs are actually gynephilic, but become prison gay because they can only be attractive to men. they can become cute little pretty trans girls and find chaser men, but can't attract women ever

>>8373344
>prove how haaaaaard you have it. Because other men committed suicide.
Oh is this what we are actually arguing now? I have it hard but not because I'm a man because I'm trans. So no I'm not using other men's suicides to prove to you how hard I have it because there would be a lot better ways to do so.
I'm saying I believe successful suicide attempts mean a lot more than you're making it out to be against non successful attempts.

>>8373233
>I have real problems in life
lolno, you said you were a cis woman.

>>8373343
>>8373347

Like seriously, I don't give a shit about "mens rights" or about "feminism". I care about reality as it IS not how I like to ought to be, and how I can best survive within reality with what I have.

In my experience, MRA people are usually bitter divorcees only angry about their ex-wives and don't give a shit about anyone else.
In my experience, feminists are usually very economically or socially privileged women who like to pretend to be progressive but instead of looking at the real problems women face (poverty, anxiety/depression, etc) focus on the most bs stuff imaginable, like making sure we have a computer programming barbie or how many females are in video games.

>>8373395 see >>8372011
Since that other idiot shifted the goalposts you can also say women are less represented in pretty much every institution worldwide, women are more prone to poverty, women are more prone to being suicidal.

>>8373386
>I believe successful suicide attempts mean a lot more than you're making it out to be against non successful attempts.
Yeah it means men use more violence in their methods. There you go. Congrats.

The male who originally brought it up tried to use it to discount the fact that women are more prone to depression/anxiety/ptsd and being suicidal.

>>8371057
>they DO compete with one another for mates.
There is always a safety net for women. Female competition for mates comes down to "first prize" vs. "consolation prize(s)." No, the thing that women need as critically as oxygen is ATTENTION. Their mental health deteriorates without constant validation from the physical and digital world. A woman gets seriously unhinged if the only attention she's getting (a baseline level which is never zero) isn't up to her standards. But she's more proficient than any sociopath at hiding her envy. That's why the line between "BFF" and "stabbing victim over an Instagram post" is so blurred in women.

All of that aside, your typical struggling, almost-hopelessly lost male nowadays probably would trade in his small strength advantage and lack of minor body inconveniences for the prospect of being a dainty angel with inherent worth and a lifelong safety net.

>>8373423
>Yeah it means men use more violence in their methods. There you go. Congrats.
Okay but why is that? And why are women not going back with a more lethal method until they finish the job? Why are men not using methods that are known to be less lethal?

>>8373354
You think prison gay is the same as pseudo-bi?

>>8372548
Why are you policing why people transition?

Of someone goes through all that trouble, I'm sure they have a good reason.

Also, why are reasons important?

>>8373445
>Okay but why is that?
>Why are men not using methods that are known to be less lethal?

2 Theories
1) Men are biologically more violent (sometimes testosterone is blamed specifically but studies vary).
2) Men are socialized to be more violent.

Since I am a realist I don't care how we got here. I lean toward the first compounded by the second, since men being more violent than women cuts across different cultures but levels of violence shift extremely from culture to culture.

>And why are women not going back with a more lethal method until they finish the job?

1) Failing suicide once doesn't necessarily make you more open to using violence or make you a more violent person.
2) While attempting suicide once definitely entails a risk you will attempt it again, failing suicide means you will likely receive some kind of intervention.

>>8373507

For trans people with dysphoria they have no choice. They may not want to be trans, they may want to be cis but they CAN'T do it. And this is important because for access to healthcare etc. Transitioning, for a person with dysphoria, is usually a MUST. Its necessary for their mental health. They want normies to understand that its a MUST, so normies are more likely to support said transition.
But for those who transition for other reasons (like gender euphoria) they throw off the narrative that trans people MUST transition. It shows transitioning is more of a cosmetic or optional thing, not worth spending on.

Once transgenderism is more accepted in society and dysphoric trans people feel "safe" in their access to healthcare I think they will be a lot less gatekeepy when it comes to other trans people who transition for other reasons (euphoria, fetish, whatever).

>>8373533
>Once transgenderism is more accepted in society and dysphoric trans people feel "safe" in their access to healthcare I think they will be a lot less gatekeepy when it comes to other trans people who transition for other reasons (euphoria, fetish, whatever).

Hmm. Thanks for your elaboration.

I understand the reasoning.

Tl;dr
Even after reading the entire thread id still rather be a cis female than a man or mtf tranny. What is wrong with me?

>>8372771
leftism =/= liberalism

Please don't associate the left with liberals' mental retardation

>>8372010
Muh toxic masculinity.

Fuck off!

>>8373507
>Of someone goes through all that trouble, I'm sure they have a good reason.

The 'good reasons' some people transition is "I was horribly abused during my childhood in a way that incentivised living as the opposite sex," with the result of transitioning just being further suffering, since it didn't address the core issues and only introduced new ones.

Personally, I'm not going to tell anyone they're not 'allowed' to transition, but if someone's reason for transitioning is that they think the opposite sex just has it easier, that's not a good reason, and if it's the only one they have then they're likely in for a world of hurt.

"Live and let live" is a decent philosophy, but if you apply it a bit too liberally it can morph into "not my problem."

>>8372256
>only if you win genetic loterry/work very hard
Anon, if you're not stronger than the average woman you DEFINITELY have some sort of disorder.

>>8372798
>incarceration rates
Men are socialized into criminal behavior through toxic masculinity.

>>8376631
Wow, such argument. Very logic.

>>8376893
Would you say the same thing for black people?

>>8377522
Yes.

Black men are also socialized into criminal behavior through toxic masculinity.

Problem?

>>8377849
nope, everyone's just turning on their TERF filter. bye :-()V

>>8372240
Type 1 FGM and circumcision are identical.

>>8376893
>so many problems of the world are all the root of toxic masculinity
>even when it makes no sense whatsoever that a male-dominated system would shit upon males in many, many preventable ways
Just because men touch almost everything in some way as ~50% of the population(just as women are ~50% of the population) does not make every problem attributable caused by masculinity. I could say the same thing about "toxic femininity" and mainly cite the areas where it makes sense, then perform equally stupid mental gymnastics to justify it where it does not, as you are doing.

If you can't admit that there are flaws with your worldview in light of such obvious contradictions then you aren't fit to engage in intellectual debate honestly. Of course you do, anyway.

>>8378039
Bullshit. Type 1 female circumcision has no history of lasting harm or any negative consequences.

>>8377897
>>8378074
Learn the difference between 'males' and 'the toxic masculine ideal'.

Men are fine. The way society treats boys and men is not.

>>8378134
treats -> raises

>>8378134
>>8378177
What are the ways boys and men are treated/raised wrong?

>>8377849
So you dont think any racism may be involved in the high incarceration rate of black people? Not just men.

>>8370402
It's not necessarily a "want". It has to be done.

>>8378083
Wat
What are the negative consequences of circumsision that cant/don't occur in type 1 female circumcision?

>>8376893
Isn't it also a biological thing that men are more aggressive and violent?

>>8379285
How many deaths have their been from type 1?

>>8378212
Being socially punished for having emotions, mainly. 'Be a man', 'boys don't cry', 'toughen up', 'walk it off'. Also society teaches boys they HAVE to be successful, and they HAVE to have a high libido. Don't wanna have sex? Sucks to be you, you are 'less of a man' now. Got raped? Society is pretty sure you wanted it, all men are dogs.

That's it, in a nutshell.

Listen to Tony Porter talking about it, if you want to hear more: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=td1PbsV6B80

>>8370402
Lol. Hard mode is hating your body, wanting to cut your tits off, being ashamed of your genitals, not identifying with your own face or voice, and feeling disillusioned with all gendered social interaction. Being a man is normal mode, being a dysphoric person is nightmare mode.

>>8382238
>waahhh success and wanting to make more of yourself is wrong

you just sound like you're upset because you're not good at either of those things.

PROTIP: people, both men and women alike will always be attracted to those driven to accomplishment. Don't like it? The noose is over there.

>>8382312

Oh, I'm doing quite well.

You don't have any male friends, do you? Real friends, who you share feelings and thoughts with? People don't come to you with their struggles? And likewise, no one really listens to you in times of hardship?

GEE I WONDER WHY.

>>8382597
>makes no attempt at refuting a point, only makes baseless character accusations

The feminist's guidebook chapter 1.1. If you can't even contribute to this species you ain't worth shit. Enjoy NEETdom.

>>8382609

>character accusations

Oh, you mean like this?

>you just sound like you're upset because you're not good at either of those things.

Lol. You hypocrites crack me up.

Successful people (of any gender) being more attractive doesn't refute my point of men being socialized differently than women.

And plenty of successful men struggle with the pressure of always having to perform. Not to mention I've also talked about emotional repression and sexuality.

But of course it's easier to cherry pick, insult, then whine if you get your shit flung right back.

>>8372010
Donald trump doesn't count, Donald trump gets away with a whole bunch if shit normal people wouldn't be able to

File: Out_Of_1000_Rapes 122016.png (581KB, 1200x1185px) Image search: [Google]

581KB, 1200x1185px

>>8383297

Is there any proof that womens claims of rape are taken sooo seriously that aren't limited to isolated anecdotes? The majority of rape cases never ever ever see the perpetrator seeing any jail time whatsoever. Tons (and I mean tons) of high profile men turn out to be rapists and nothing happens--Sean Penn, Roman Polanski, Woody Allen, Charlie Sheen, Alfred Hitchcock, Marlon Brando, Kobe Bryant, David Bowie etc.

Like on what planet is "rape is taken sooooo seriously" even true? No its not. Its considered like a bad thing, in theory, sure, That's about it.

File: 1496030740733.jpg (608KB, 1084x1699px) Image search: [Google]

608KB, 1084x1699px

>>8372185
And I'm sure if we just cut off peoples arms as babies that would reduce the risk of said arms getting injured/diseased, but we don't do that because

1. It has a purpose (like the foreskins role in sexual pleasure)
2.removing it in infancy is fucked up because you're inflicting an extreme amount of pain on a newborn and taking away a part of his body he's entitled to keep just because of religious tickets back in the day pushed for it because they thought masturbation was the devil is incredibly fucked up

>>8383350
1) Not true, see >>8372465 and >>8372185

2) The masturbation thing is overblown. Yes curbing masturbation was one claim made in the 19th century. But it was also (correctly) identified as helping to limit STI including syphilis which was by far more influential. The Jewish ties to circumcision actually HURT circumcusion in the West because "muh evil Jews coming for my foreskin".

Also see: >>8372185 again, all adverse effects are very minor.

>>8379389
That's not what you said at all.

>>8383357
Saying that the foreskin also increases STI rates doesn't mean it doesn't have a purpose, its still important for pleasure. Also, I really don't give a fuck if it reduces risks of STIs, I wouof rather have a foreskin and just take care of myself like a responsible human than have had society decide "well we've decided you don't need this anymore, anon, Oprah needs it more for her face cream"

>>8383405
>Saying that the foreskin also increases STI rates doesn't mean it doesn't have a purpose, its still important for pleasure.
SEE >>8372465 , this claim is absolutely unsubstantiated and relies on very few very biased studies.

Intactivists are worse than antivaxxers

>>8383357
>can't be bothered to wash
>wonders why keeps getting UTI

KYS Shlomo
Genital mutilation is disgusting and barbaric and should be outlawed.

>>8383416
Chop off your eyelids.
You don't need them to keep your eyeballs moist.
You can just let your corneas keratinize.
My invisible sky-daddy told me it's the truth!

>>8383450
>>8383446

>Ignores all science
>Ignores all logic
>Ignores the fucking WORLD HEALTH ORGANIZATION
>Creepshit medieval-tier antisemitism

Oh look its an intactivist hurrah

>>8379285
There are a lot more arteries to sever and risk of infection is much higher for male genital mutilation. The two leading causes of death from male genital mutilation are infection and bleeding out.

>>8383458
>>Ignores all science
>>Ignores all logic

you're talking about circumcision here

>>8370479
>>8370431
Lets just all agree Humans are disgusting selfish creatures no matter the gender.

>>8370402
fucking idiot lol

I can't even tell who's the feminist and who's the MRA anymore

>>8387447
explain?

t. hasn't followed the thread