Bachelorette contestant is slammed for making transphobic comment

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPAQ9NpPJz4&index=36&list=UUTYu3LHeW4GliTc5iBAkX-w

>>8362054
Maybe if transpeople disclosed that they have a dick before anything, people wouldn't be fearful about it.

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>>8362090
>oooOOOooooOOOooo
Watch out anon! It's coming to get you!

Don't care.

He has a werid looking face.

>>8362159
>Invalidating someone to their physical attraction
You know not everyone treats people the same way they treat you.

I appreciate Bryce's honesty at least. would we really rather have everyone censoring their possibly offensive thoughts? I say this as a tran myself

>>8362250
I agree but his face looks like Roblox.

>>8362183
You know that he's a television personality, right?

>>8362183
the guy himself invalidates trans people with his comments, fuck him, fuck his meme face, and fuck his meme haircut

I didn't know chipmunk got airtime.

>>8362054
but he looks gay tho

>>8362090
He's not even necessarily talking about being grossed out by the "wrong parts." He seems to have this overall attitude that all transwomen are and always will be men.
It certainly doesn't sound like he's open to trans partners who are upfront about their status, they're all "dudes" to him.
That's not a boundary issue, that's prejudice.

>>8362506
Nah thats bs he just said "the chick is actually a dude".

Its not wrong to not want to date a trans woman. Even if he was "closed" so what? I try to be respectful but I won't date a trans person either.

>>8362506
>He either has to put up with a literal penis, which he isn't attracted to, or a mangled hole that doesn't self-lubricate and isn't functional.
>The fact that he doesn't want to have to make this choice makes him transphobic.

I like being slapped by hard throbbing cock. Is the fact that I don't want a tiny clit dick or a Frankenstein penis transphobic too?

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>>8362568
>I like being slapped by hard throbbing cock
fucking gross man

>>8362563
It doesn't sound to me like he's just uninterested in dating transwomen, but also that he doesn't consider transwomen female, period. You can be generous and imagine some nuance he's failed to describe. I'm sure he'll go into it in his tearful interview with Access Hollywood about how he is shocked, SHOCKED to have been seen as a bigot. But being AMAB is usually enough to qualify a transwoman as "actually a dude" for some people. It's not about honesty, it's not about preferences, it's fear of difference and a failure of the imagination.

>>8362568
If somewhere in there you implied that because you can't experience that with a trans man because all transmen are actually women, then you would have done what I think this Bachelor did, and that assertion that only people with bodies equipped to satisfy your sexual appetites are truly male would be the transphobic thing

>>8362603
>It doesn't sound to me like he's just uninterested in dating transwomen, but also that he doesn't consider transwomen female, period

Trans women aren't female by many definitions, yes. They certainly aren't cis, obviously, thus the need for 2 different words. And? Who cares?

>>8362621
At first I thought you were saying that the Bachelor's comment was just too vague to really qualify as prejudiced, and I was reading malice into it that wasn't there.
But now it seems you believe the comment was harmless because you also consider it true, and you don't consider this to be discrimination because you don't know any better.

Transwomen are a different kind of women than ciswomen but that doesn't mean they aren't female. If that were the case why is "woman" right there in this separate word that's supposed to disqualify their womanhood? that's a big stretch for the case you're trying to make.

>>8362676
He said by certain definitions they are male. This is true at the very least for the genetic definition.

>>8362681
Now you've gone back to reading the comment broadly and charitably.
He didn't say sometimes, in some ways, from a certain point of view. It was an absolute rejection of the whole idea that transwomen are not "actually dudes."
And the fact that you're now reaching for technicalities like muh chromosomes tells me that even you understand that the Bachelor was wrong about that. You know this is more complicated than he thinks it is. So why are you so intent on trying to make him seem like he's right?

>>8362676
>But now it seems you believe the comment was harmless because you also consider it true, and you don't consider this to be discrimination because you don't know any better.
Its not discrimination, or if it is discrimination its irrelevant. Cis people are not obligated to have sex with you. Neither are trans people.

>Transwomen are a different kind of women than ciswomen but that doesn't mean they aren't female.
By some definitions trans women are female. By some they are not. Duh. Gender is very complex and is largely defined by culture, subculture, the individual, biology etc., and "female" in particular is typically used for sex.

>>8362703
> So why are you so intent on trying to make him seem like he's right?
Why are you so intent on being butthurt?

>>8362739
>By definition some trans women are female. But some they are not.
FTFY

>>8362739
>if it is discrimination its irrelevant
>Cis people are not obligated to have sex with you
First of all, I've said over and over again that I'm not addressing the matter of whether cis people are "obligated to have sex" with trans people, but I guess that's the issue for you. If the womanhood of transwomen isn't asterisk'd into oblivion, and trans women are considered women, then you might be expected to consider them potential sexual partners, and you don't want that.
But transwomen have more at stake in whether they're considered female than who is willing to have sex with them.
It makes us less safe, less able to lead healthy, productive lives, and the problems we face seem less unfair.
It allows people to believe that our identity is a choice, it's not real. That we shouldn't be allowed to present as we identify in the workplace. It makes strangers think that they should try to talk us out of it for our own good. Forces us to choose between women's restrooms where we might be judged a threat and men's rooms where we might be judged a target. Makes people think that we're deranged deviants trying to destroy heterosexuality from within, and that we should be murdered for the good of society.
Do you think that your discomfort at being obligated to consider having sex with a trans person is even equal to that?
Do you think that your discrimination is so irrelevant now?

>>8362802
>It allows people to believe that our identity is a choice, it's not real.
Why does whether or not it's a choice matter to whether or not we should be considered real women without asterisks?

>>8362802

Trans women are women by some definitions, and not women by other definitions. You cannot change that, nor should you unless you want the word "woman" to lose all meaning (in which case, we'd just need another word to mean woman).

And this discussion is very much about sex and dating. Not about uh, presenting in the workplace or whatever you are on about. he didn't say that his biggest fear is finding out his female employee is actually a male. The fact that you are trying to shift this is so rapey and gross.

>>8362858
The onus is on you to justify why trans women shouldn't be considered women in any particular situation.

>>8362864

>The onus is on you to justify why trans women shouldn't be considered women in any particular situation.

It doesn't need to be justified. They literally aren't. Every culture has different conceptions of gender etc. Even individuals can have different conceptions of gender.

On the absolute, most literal/base level, trans women are not women at all. There's nothing "woman" about a trans woman on the strict biological level. They lack primary sexual characteristics and even most secondary sexual characteristics unless they have access to medical intervention. This is where you get "she's actually a man".

On higher levels, such as when it comes to self-identity, trans women are women. They identify as such. But self-identification is just one level.

On the cultural level, it completely varies. The most open societies historically would classify trans women as their own gender, separate from men or women. The West and more closed societies would simply classify trans women as men, since the self-identification isn't very meaningful on a grander level. Right now, there is a push among some trans activists to consider trans women interchangeable with cis women, but of course that hasn't happened yet (if it ever will). They aren't the same. Get over it.

>>8362250
THIS.

We're no longer able to be honest without hurting someones god damn feelings. Christ. So what if this faggo would fear having to realize the girl he's dating is a dude. And if that was the case wouldn't the tranny be at fault for hiding such info to him?

>>8362884
>There's nothing "woman" about a trans woman on the strict biological level.
Straight up untrue.

>Every culture has different conceptions of gender etc. Even individuals can have different conceptions of gender.
Obviously the issue is what justifies cultures making a distinction between trans women and cis women and whether there's a legitimate reason to consider trans women as men or as their own gender. So far there hasn't been one brought up.

>>8362910
>Straight up untrue.
True.

>Obviously the issue is what justifies cultures making a distinction between trans women and cis women
They are biologically different, and only differ on the level of self-identity. You know that right? Trans women are different than cis women. They aren't the same.

>>8362910
>Straight up untrue.
>straight
hue

That aside; enlighten me please.

>>8362916
I'm still not seeing a legitimate reason for cultures or individuals to distinguish them.

>>8362932

Because they are different, duh. There's your legitimate reason. Even you are distinguishing them when you use the words "cis" and 'trans". Imagine if you just used the words "woman" and "hijra" instead. There you go. You are already distinguishing, you hypocrite. I'm assuming you are just a bad troll.

>>8362352
>the guy himself invalidates trans people
It's not only his preference, but it's legitimately disturbing for a straight man to have a gay experience without him even knowing.

This is like a straight man saying "lesbians are invalidating men".

>>8362984

But lesbians are much higher in the oppression scale. Hence they deserve more rights.

>>8362940
Maybe actually listen to the point.

Hirjas aren't allowed in women's toilets.

Mtfs can't take shelter in women's refuges.

Ftms don't get conscripted.

These are all actual differences in how cultures treat trans people. Not just words that distinguish between them and cisgenders. Actual real life discrimination.

The cultures involved need legitimate reasons to justify this if they want to defend continuing to act this way.

>>8362994

>The cultures involved need legitimate reasons to justify this if they want to defend continuing to act this way.
Nice goalpost shifting. Also you are the one who needs to justify acting differently. The rest can be justified just by the simple fact that they are different people. Why shouldn't they be treated differently?

The mental gymnastics some of you trannies do are unreal. There is no such thing as a chick with a dick, only a guy with boobs. Sorry, but that's reality. Straight guys don't want to get to second base and discover a penis, that's not discriminatory it's sexual orientation.

I'm trans and I think it's perfectly ok for him to not want to be with a trans person. People criticizing him just for having that thought are huge assholes

>>8363059
Yeah, I don't get it. I feel like if we had the technology for a trans person to have fully functional genitals, then it wouldn't be a problem. But until that day, it's fine not to want a sweat hole or frankendick.

>>8363049
b-but what about a guy with a surgically inverted scrotum?

Muh intersex!

>>8362993
>But lesbians are much higher in the oppression scale.

They have higher victimization scale, women have a lot of power, and part of that power is being/playing a victim.

>Hence they deserve more rights.
...what happened to equality?

>>8363028
>Nice goalpost shifting.
That was the point from the start imbecile.

>Also you are the one who needs to justify acting differently.
Do explain how?

>The rest can be justified just by the simple fact that they are different people.
How exactly does being "different people" (isn't everyone?) justify any of the examples of misgendering culture that I gave?

I know you won't answer this, because from the start your posts have been trying to desperately avoid this question.

>>8363095
>How exactly does being "different people" (isn't everyone?) justify any of the examples of misgendering culture that I gave?

Ftms are not the same as cis men, hijra and mtf are not the same as cis women. Why do YOU justify treating them as the same?

Also LOL at misgendering. They are gendered exactly as they are. As trans men or trans women. You re misgendering by pretending they are cis.

>>8363099
>are not the same
Not a reason.

I gave three examples of cultural misgendering. You are unable to back up your claim for even one of them besides mumbling "not the same, not the same" over and over like some brain damaged drunkard.

>>8363113

>Ftms are not the same as cis men, hijra and mtf are not the same as cis women. Why do YOU justify treating them as the same?

>>8363099
>are not the same as cis women
But they're not the same as cis men either..

>>8363114
>not the same, not the same
gb2/pol/

>>8363120
>Why do YOU justify treating them as the same?

Answer please.

>>8363124
>How exactly does being "different people" (isn't everyone?) justify any of the examples of misgendering culture that I gave?

Answer please.

>>8363119
Yep. Trans is its own thing. In some cases it makes sense to treat them more like men or more like women depending. Take it on a case-by-case basis.

With dating? No way. I want a family and kids and you need an actual functioning penis for that. Like sorry maybe one day they will make some kind of super surgery that will give trans people real genitalia but until then idk.

>>8363120
>Ftms are not the same as cis men, hijra and mtf are not the same as cis women. Why do YOU justify treating them as the same?

>>8363124
Not them, but because that's closer than the opposite.

>>8363130
>How exactly does being "different people" (isn't everyone?) justify any of the examples of misgendering culture that I gave?

Answer please.

So basically both of you don't know what the fuck you're saying and are now playing the 'no you explain it, no you explain it' game.

lol

>>8363133
>Ftms are not the same as cis men, hijra and mtf are not the same as cis women. Why do YOU justify treating them as the same?

>>8362054
Trans women getting offended by everything due to those cancerous female hormones in their bodies

>>8363130
>With dating
I agree on that, I tell anyone pretty up front if it's actually going anywhere, but I'm also openly trans (though won't tell every stranger my life story) as I don't like living a lie either, but still dislike being associated with males as well, I feel closer to female but I know my birth sex, childhood and past etc.

>>8363144
You can't answer because there is no justification. /thread

>>8362054
Is that supposed to be a dude?
Because it looks FTM.

>>8363155

Yeah, in general I think:

Most day-to-day social whatever where gender doesn't matter anyway: Treat people however they identify.
Issues where secondary sex characteristics are important (like sports or military etc): Treat on a case-by-case basis depending if the trans person has completed hormone therapy or "transitioned" fully. A pre-op or non-op trans woman shouldn't be competing in womens sports or going to womens spaces yet, but should afterwards.
Issues where primary sex characteristics are important (like sex/romance etc): Treat people according to their biological sex. Sorry.

>>8363164
>Ftms are not the same as cis men, hijra and mtf are not the same as cis women. Why do YOU justify treating them as the same?

>>8362054
What's wrong with his face

>>8363178
Change the record.

You can't answer because there is no justification.

>>8363193
>Ftms are not the same as cis men, hijra and mtf are not the same as cis women. Why do YOU justify treating them as the same?
>You can't answer because there is no justification.

>>8363178
>Treat people according to their biological sex.
Maybe not phrased right? Also assuming you mean birth sex?
I mean I would never be with anyone ever treating me as my birth sex, however them knowing about my past would be required on my end regardless.

>>8363197
You can't answer because there is no justification.

>>8363207

>Maybe not phrased right? Also assuming you mean birth sex?
Biological sex. Sex doesn't randomly change. Isn't that the whole ~sex vs gender~ thing? Gender being rooted in identity and culture, and sex being rooted in physical characteristics?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex

I'd try to be nice about it (to a point) but if you don't have functioning external/internal genitalia I won't pretend that you do. I draw the line really sharply there and think its kind of gross and super rapey when trans people expect to be taken as cis people in this area when they literally cannot reproduce as their chosen gender. Sex is important in sexual intercourse that's why its sex.

>>8362054
>Maybe if transpeople disclosed that they have a dick before anything, people wouldn't be fearful about it.
Kinda hard for me to feel sorry for people who deceive from the get go and then try and complain about 'transphobia'. There's no such thing as Islamophobia or transphobia since both are just ideas than can literally change as your feelings do. If you're trans than it's up to you to tell those you want to date that you're suffering from a mental illness called gender dysphoria. It's right up there with homosexuality, also a mental illness even if the APA homos said it's not. An episode of Ru Pauls Drag Race give you all the proof you need to prove that homosexuality should still be treated by a mental health professional. Or just toss yourself off a roof if you're feeling like being in solidarity with muslims.

>>8363229
And that's for example why I would never be with you, it someone like you..

And I see your biology to be what make up you, and some of which will be changed with different sex hormones.. I'm not seeing my biological sex as my birth sex anymore, please do if you want to though.