questioning the legitimacy of transwomen who self-med?

>>8348583
>we had to transition while they chose to.
That doesn't follow from the rest of your post at all. Why do you think that?

>>8348583
When I was younger it was uncommon to find doctors aware of trans stuff and even rarer to find one supportive of it.
I'm sure most that grew up in the 90's and early 00's dislike the medical community given that the medical community actively worked against transgenders for quite a long time.

Plus it's still hard to transition in many places. Doctors gatekeep you like crazy, force you to do bizarre stuff like RLE for years before giving you hormones, force you to come out to people before you get hormones, etc.
A lot of the transition process seems to hinge on blackmail, political opinions, and whatever other pseuoscience the doctor you're seeing might happen to believe in. Even if you find a supportive doctor they might have their opinions on medications as well and they'll force you onto stuff like spiro rather than cypro or bica.

>>8348583
Sounds like you were obviously feminine as a child? Are you straight too?

>>8348583

Is this Caraposter making up lies again or does he have a successor?

>>8348583
lol
self-medding isn't transitioning

I self med because I was desperate to start but too scared to tell anyone, it wasn't really rejection of the system, because I plan on going legit once I know where I'm living. I'm pretty sure hons dislike diy though? Or at least I thought.

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I think anyone born before 1997 should not be allowed to transition and instead forced to take testosterone injections tbqh.

>>8348774
??

I bet most self-medders are just fetishists who after developing addiction for "shemale" porn (notice how most late transitioners also tend to be chasers as well?) chose to become like their busty non-op pornstars using black market hormones to achieve their fetishistic goal tbqh.

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>>8348774

Nigga, what?

>>8348801
Jesus Christ, case in point....

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>>8348774
*1995

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>>8348817

Ya decided whether ya wanna be a woman or a man yet, boy? Or ya still dilly-dallying like ya got all ya life ta make up ya mind? Idle hands are the devil's workshop, don'tcha know, boy?

>>8348817
>Cara please stop this isn't funny
You've got to see the fun in posts like hers.

>>8348801
>squarish Chadchin
>long midface
>dadhands
>possibly big elbows, wide shoulders and narrow hips
Keep trying, late transitioner.

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>>8348794
I mean maybe... the idea of feminizing a male body really just sounds creepy if you didn't have legitimate effeminacy as a child as a basis for that.

>>8348840
Who again are you? And how do you know about this?

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>>8348821
>>8348854

She's a textbook example of Caraposter's "legitimate" trannies. Even had multiple suicide attempts until she got SRS at 16. And that's with her having the tremendous benefit of being on HRT since she was 13.

>>8348864
>the idea of feminizing a male body really just sounds creepy
And pointless.
Men and men claiming to be trans yet always displaying normal male behavior (the majority of late transitioners) should be sent to the army to "man up" instead.

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>>8348872
this doesn't look like someone i would consider legitimate

>>8348899
There's tons of masculine girls out there though
If you can get a fem voice even if you act like a dude you'll pass

>and as a child was (relatively) quickly inducted in medical and psychological evaluation
Did the psychologists find signs of sociopathy, or did that come later?

>>8348583
In many environs, self-medicating is more prevalent due to a lack of supportive doctors or health insurance issues. Expect to see an even further uptick in self-medding if the GOP healthcare bill gets signed into law, as it makes being trans a "pre-existing condition," which allows insurers to deny coverage not just for trans-related care, but for regular healthcare as well.

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>>8348934
somebody help me
i'm being bullied by late trans again...

Why don't you tell me what you want? I hardly post here, so it's no big deal, but if you keep doing this I'll just go away and then you'll have gained nothing.

>>8348903

Too bad for you then. Because she's the one who's been living her life as a woman for a decade or more, you're just a creepy, stalker twinkhon who started hormones at 21.

Sounds like you're misappropriating a label that doesn't fit you because your male ego raised on male privilege can't stand being denied its fetishistic desire to objectify women and especially legitimate early transitioners.

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>>8349029
i've never stalked anyone, and especially not due to thinking that i have some sort of "entitlement" to them. you should pay closer attention to what's going on.

>>8349060
You disgusting man you literally stalked that poor trans girl at your college. You belong in jail you pervert.

>>8349060

Oh, so you're saying it would be perfectly fine for you to be re-admitted to your former university? You could step back on the campus any time you want?

>>8349023
She wants what she can't have, to be trutrans, and not agp.

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>>8348583
In my experience, therapists aren't exactly happy about telling you that you should transition, simply because they're afraid of being sued for malpractice. Most doctors, therapists and psychiatrists know very little about the subject.

What you're describing should realistically be the case, but with people pushing back against gender dysphoria being diagnosed as a mental disorder, it complicates the matter. However, I think there just isn't a clear enough line between those that consider transitioning a hobby, and those that consider it a necessary, unavoidable fact of life.

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>>8348602
^
this i was born in 1992 and was only able to start hrt at 19 because of all of the harsh gate keeping (still ended up passing cause Asian/white gene master race. IMO they just need to tone it down a bit as I do believe gatekeeping has valid reasons for being there to prevent transtrenders from getting on HRT but it seems they just bypass it by self medicating...

It's pretty unfortunate desu because even though I do believe self medding is legitimate and a lot of actual trans women do self med, there are to many people who abuse it now hence the whole gay men taking HRT to be more "attractive" to other gays and femboy thing happening now. It's starting to become a real problem and desu I think in a few years self medication route will be highly regulated like they do with T since its a steroid but now for E to prevent transtrenders from abusing medications they should never have been on. It's why you need to establish a doctor network to have access to HRT. It's fairly easy now just go to one and say you are trans and they diagnose you now instead of having to go through a therapist first.

It just sucks because being an actual person with gender dysphoria and are legitimately transsexual is so small that every other percentage of people out there will just abuse anything that is specifically for the treatment of us. So we just lose in all aspects of life except the knowledge that most of the human race are filled with abusive jerks who don't care about anything but themself and so little people are zen now because of it. If you are actually trans being zen is like the only life philosophy that you can use to cope as you mature.

>tfw people will unironically bite this b8

>>8349105
>every other percentage of people out there will just abuse anything that is specifically for the treatment of us
How can anyone who isn't trans abuse transitioning being available?

>>8349113
The short story is:
People don't understand that the reason why we get treated is to alleviate body dysphoria. HRT changes what your body looks/feels like in relation to the brains perception. Not to mention if you end up passing society will treat you like any other female. These will result in dysphoria in people who are cis. It's why alot of femboys are trans in denial. And Gay men who take HRT will realize how fucked thier life is after 7 years of being on it.

>>8348583
Oh a cara thread. Didnt that same medical system screw you you over? You should of been on HRT much earlier.

A lot of those late transitioners should of been transed at a young age, but the world they grew up in strongly encouraged repression.

>>8348794
Oh dont worry I whacked off to the idea of being a lesbian since age 11. This shit starts early hon.

>>8348864
Sounds fun to me.

>>8349029
I love how Cara likes to police young trannies identities. Whereas I accept them completely despite being everything Cara despises. Although im a non transitioner rather than a late transitioner.

>>8349121
I'm not sure how that relates to the question or that gay men have ever taken HRT.

>>8349124
did you even read the thread?
>>8349060
is cara being bullied by op
unless she is posting as both people which i wouldn't put past her

>>8349137
>unless she is posting as both people which i wouldn't put past her
This is so painfully obvious that it shouldn't even need to be pointed out.

>>8348583
It's funny, Cara. Traditionally, HSTSes are the ones who self-med, and AGPs are the ones who go through the system. Haven't you ever been to Susan's?
Though if you'd stop memeing that your bizarro world clusters have anything to do with the typology...
>>8349137
Cara is OP. >>8349029 is not Cara. Did *you* read the thread?
>>8349124
sup masc-kun

>>8348602
Doctors forcing people to do RLE before HRT feels like it's literally hazing. It should be banned as an unethical practice.

>>8349105
I was born in 1996, also started at 19. Super jelly of your genetics btw.

I just think there should be some legitimate method of diagnosis that doesn't involve humiliating yourself in front of everyone that cares about you. I lost my parents' support because I was forced to come out to them before I was ready, and I'm kinda bitter about it. It's also a time-sensitive issue. You need to get the diagnosis ASAP so that HRT has an optimal effect on your body, alleviating the dysphoria so that therapy can be remotely effective. I think a lot of that gets lost in a bad mixture of pity, fear and doubt from the medical end.

>>8349112
bait or not, it's an interesting topic

>>8349158
>masc-kun
???

>>8349105
You are advocating for harsh gatekeeping is both ironic and embarrassing. Doesn't matter if a person has zero dysphoria, what they choose to put in their body should be no one's choice but their own. There should be no walls when trying to get drugs of any sort, unless of course the person is underage. Although I would go as far as pushing it to 16 tbqh.

>>8349158
>sup masc-kun
Oh not much just shitposting and chillin.

>>8349162
>Doctors forcing people to do RLE before >HRT feels like it's literally hazing. It >should be banned as an unethical >practice
I think it'd be fun to larp as a woman, but the hostility, mockery, possible violence, would make it a terrible experience.

>>8349230
like, maybe if you could just say you're doing drag for fun, you could go with it. But doing it every single day and saying you're serious definitely ruins relationships. I like my friends, and just transitioning quietly really helped me keep them. My old therapist said I was being sneaky doing that, and it kinda fucked with me.

>>8348583
>1998
There you go. Culture changed. Were you born a few years earlier or elsewhere you would've been denied treatment.

>>8349197
You honestly don't understand how much a society would change if we just handed HRT to everyone are you that dense?

>>8349251
People could do what they please with their own bodies and everyone would be happy?

>>8349257
That sounds horrible

>>8349251
I'm advocating personal freedom. It's ironic you call me dense, that's what I think of everybody who's would force their beliefs and ideas on people. Like yourself. Yes, you would stop most trenders with harsher gatekeeping. But you would also stop some real trans people as a result. Are you too dense to see that? It's why you must always resort to freedom of choice.

>>8349257
>>8349272
Well first people who take HRT for long periods will have self developed dysphoria if they are cis and two people will not know how to interact with males or females to the point that they don't know what they are interacting with if a large percentage of people up and start HRT all the sudden.

It''l just make alot of transition regretters in the future and tarnish the medical condition even more than it has. HRT is literally meant to control a cis females hormonal cycles and actual transsexuals who experience biologic induced dysphoria.

>>8349289
>Well first people who take HRT for long periods will have self developed dysphoria
They can just get off it then.

>>8349244
Denied treatment at best, at worse they'd be so repressed they wouldn't even realize they need treatment.

>>8349289
I doubt that many people would just randomly take hormones. Even if they did it's not that big of a deal, the effects are largely reversible.

>>8349289
Again, you're too dense to understand freedom whatsoever. You should have the right to make choices for yourself if it effects no one else.

>>8349289
tl;dr trannies who aren't as feminine and passable as you should be denied transition so you can fit into heteronormative society better

>>8348583
a year wait for a specialist here, then months of multiple $100 sessions before you can be prescribed it

>>8348774
>:[

>caraposter's early transitioner fursona has become a gatekeeper worshipper
>literal susan's-tier ideology
this idiot's insanity is the gift that keeps on giving

>>8349993
>caraposter's early transitioner fursona has become a gatekeeper worshipper

>Implying this isn't the funniest outcome ever.
Only thing we are missing here is Cara writing sissyfication erotica and talking about how her 4 sons won't call her mother.

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>>8348583
> Born in 1998
See pic related

> 20s and 30s are late transitioners.
> 19, and through the process
> Chosing to transition

Oh, my sweet, summer child.
Nobody chooses to transition. Everyone has to. Transition isn't as easy as you think it. The road to your transition, with the grudging parental acceptance, media normalization, bathroom laws, pre-adulthood affirmative consulting, hormone blockers, etc. etc. are built up by us, [[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[late]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]] transitioners. What you had is extreme luck to be born in a state where:
> Your parents accepted or at least tolerated you
> You have informed consent, or affirmative therapy
> You have HRT available, and your parents are able and willing to pay for it
> Or better, you have an actual job, and people don't care about your transness.

People who are self-medding do it because they have a reason to do so. Mostly unaccepting parents, or gatekeeping by psychiatrists (your psychiatrist is accepting, I get it. Not all of them are), or gatekeeping by endocrinologists (oh, you need an orchi <-> orchi ruins your chance for most SRS surgeons, incl. anyone in Thailand.) Self-medding and buying questionable drugs over the internet is dangerous. We do it because we doesn't have any other choice.

T. 25-yo. trans woman.

>>8348583
>I can only guess that one of the main differences between us and them is that we had to transition while they chose to.
Or that you're young and growing up in a vastly more accepting time where self-medding is far less necessary.

I'm not choosing to transition if I don't transition then I'm gonna end up suiciding before 20. I'm self medding as I've only heard of massive wait times to get approved for hormones. And I could feel myself getting more manly as time went on, I was disgusted by the feeling. I am going the legitimate route as we'll, I'm just self medding in the mean time.
Don't try any of that trutrans bullshit, my emotional hell is no less painful because I buy titty tablets online.

>>8348774
YEA U TELL EM GARY!!!

>>8349105
>there are to many people who abuse it now
Is that really a problem though? If a gay dude wants to take E for better skin, is that a bad thing? At least they're doing it on their own time and not faking dysphoria to get a prescription.
What about that would lead to stricter regulation to the detriment of trans people? I'd assume T is regulated mostly so people can't use it as a performance enhancer in sports, plus it has more detrimental side effects than E that could hurt people if taken irresponsibly, whereas E is reasonably safe afaik.

>>8349197
>There should be no walls when trying to get drugs of any sort
l2opiate epidemic
There's a reason so many drugs are kept under lock and key by people who actually know what the fuck they're going to do to you. This isn't a trans issue, this is a general medical science issue.
There's a big difference between bigoted gatekeeping (maliciously preventing a targeted group of people from accessing necessary treatment) and basic medical regulation (generally preventing idiots from getting treatments that they don't need or will outright do serious damage/kill them).

Do you know how many hypochondriacs would accidentally kill themselves every month if there were no walls between them and medications?

>>8350090
>people are too stupid to look after themselves so we need laws to look after us.
Pretty dangerous philosophy there, I'd try think of another one if I were you.

>>8350164
>I'm sure I know just as much as a doctor who's trained for 8+ years to know what all this shit does, they're basically useless, I'll just look up WebMD and read labels, it'll be fiiiine
Pretty dangerous philosophy there, I'd try think of another one if I were you.

>>8350090
>There's a reason so many drugs are kept under lock and key by people who actually know what the fuck they're going to do to you.
"Don't question. We know best."

>>8350090
Except in countries where they've decriminalized drugs and have less restrictions it leads to less abuse. It's not even really much of an opinion anymore about less restrictions leading to less abuse, it's a fact. In Portugal they decriminalized all drugs and have the lowest drug abuse rates of any western country.

>>8350074
> E is reasonably safe
E will make you irreversibly sterile
E will clog your arteries, and make your legs rot off.
E is useless without an AA

>>8350066
Can't you make it to an informed consent clinic?

And informed consent in general is being left out I feel like, I walked into a clinic, said I was trans, and walked out with three prescriptions for HRT in an hour, in the US no less. Alternatives to the WPATH standard of diagnosis are out there and should be upheld.

You weren't born in '98 cara, stop pretending to be an early transitioner, because your not.
You're falseflagging bs is making actual early transitions look bad.

>>8348583
I'm /1998/ too

Just ordered my first hormones batch

Rural Alabama, still on parents' insurance, don't have a job yet, etc, so I can't even dip a toe into "official" channels

Plus, although I am by all legitimate measures "trans", I don't share the belief that I'm a "woman" in any legitimate capacity

mentally ill male ≠ physically deformed female
No matter how real the mental illness is
But if you believe this, they won't prescribe you the very real cure

>>8350245
True
Not true, that's like saying that bacon will give you cancer
Well yeah

>>8350245
Blood clots are pretty rare and fairly age dependent.

You can buy way way more harmful medicine at the drug store than estrogen though. Like Tylenol for example.

>>8350245
E will not make you irreversibly sterile, especially if you're not taking e.g., Cypro with it. Just take fucking fertility tests every once in a while.
"Clog arteries" and "legs rot off" = Corner case scenarios
It's less effective without an AA, yes, but still has effect, especially if you boost the dose.

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i started self-medicating hrt about a month after my 14th birthday, i also self advocated and was at a gender therapist for a while before being blunty told that I would not receive hrt unless I started RLE at my hick school. daily bullying and being completely ostracized from peers was not on my agenda, it's pretty clear you had a better experience with the medical community then I did, I rejected medically approved transition because i considered/consider it my best bet.

>>8350238
>Except in countries where they've decriminalized drugs and have less restrictions it leads to less abuse.
You're talking about two things that are so ridiculously unrelated to each other that I don't even know how to respond. Maybe you should get a prescription for retard pills.

>>8350289
Okay then how about countries that deregulated estradiol and AAs like nearly every single non-western country? If you're in South America it's all OTC medicine yet there's not a million dudes with tits running around there
Regulation of things like estrogen is something only western countries do.

>>8350221

Who said don't question? The whole point of not giving people free easy access to all 'potentially life-threatening if used improperly' prescription medication is because people don't ask enough questions or even have enough knowledge to know what questions they should be asking compared to those who have dedicated their lives to studying this shit for years/decades.

>>8350308
You don't find it patronizing that your government thinks you're too stupid to look shit up on the internet or ask the pharmacist standing 10 feet away what something does? Nanny-states are ridiculous.

>>8350308
>Who said don't question?
The argument "There is a reason..."

That's no answer. That allows no questioning. It's just "This is so, end of story."

Arrogant and likely revealing the lack of answer in the mind of the speaker. It's ideology, not reason.

>>8350296
>Regulation of things like estrogen is something only western countries do.
Transtrending in ultra liberal colleges where being trans nets you social status rather than ass kickings is also something only western countries do.

I'm also not talking specifically about HRT, maybe there's an argument for making that OTC (but considering the above, colour me sceptical), I'm mostly just addressing the utter absurdity of anon claiming ALL medication should be freely accessible by everyone with no oversight.

>>8350317

...You know what, you've convinced me, the world would probably function better if retards like you WebMD yourselves out of existence.

I take hard drugs and even I think you're stupid to actually be taking shit long term without any sort of professional guidance at all.

>>8350324
>I'm mostly just addressing the utter absurdity of anon claiming PEOPLE own their bodies rather than their benevolent government and the pharmaceutical regulatory industry.

>>8350317
>education is bad
>I don't need no book learnin types to tell me what's what, I know how that medicine magic works ya just plop it in

>>8350090
Holy shit, again, you don't understand personal freedom whatsoever. If a drug addict overdoses because they chose to do too much heroin, that's their problem/choice. People have a right to their bodies. I do believe there should be programs for addicts, and centers that allow people to come in and take the right dose of drug. This is simply put, an issue of freedom.

>>8350331
The sad part is, you can't get any "professional guidance" without going full official Tranny, which means adhering to the CURRENT YEAR definition of what you need to claim to believe to get a prescription.

>>8350322

How the fuck does that translate to "don't question"? Pardon me for not writing you a fucking essay and just presuming you'd be able to catch my drift with a jumping off point, or ask for a clarification if you weren't picking up what I was putting down. Next time I'll be sure to explain things to you like a 5 year old so you don't have to come up with any thoughts of your own and can just mindlessly accept what I'm spoon feeding to you.

And I'M being accused of suppressing thought here, mother of god.

>>8350324
Letting people have free access to all meds would hardly bother me. It's not like the information on effects is hidden anyway. There's no logical reasoning that would lead to death other than stupidity.
I don't even take stuff like Tylenol without checking interactions first.

Also there's a pharmacist literally standing in every single drug store. You're allowed to ask them about drugs they're selling you know. You don't even have to put in an ounce of effort or even look anything up on the internet if you don't want to. You could even ask your doctor. Just because something is OTC doesnt mean you suddenly cant ask questions about it

>>8350339
>How the fuck does that translate to "don't question"?
There is a reason why it is.

That's how ^

>>8350336
>and centers that allow people to come in and take the right dose of drug.
>centers
>allow
>the right dose
Yes. All of which requires regulation by professionals, who know what the drugs are and how they'll interact with the person taking them, and are qualified to administer them safely.
And sure, if someone WANTS to overdose for some reason, there's little anyone can really do to prevent it, but most people don't WANT to overdose, most people just want to feel better and don't have years of medical science education to make safe decisions.

Also regular junkies getting toasted on street heroin has absolutely nothing to do with prescriptions. People take those sort of drugs explicitly for a high despite the risks, it's a completely different animal to people who have (or think they have) various illnesses and seek alleviation of symptoms, whether they've actually been diagnosed with anything or not.
And you could make an actual argument against putting trust in prescriptions by pointing out that the opiate crisis is largely a result of people being prescribed with things they shouldn't have been prescribed with, and taking them in ignorant trust that the doctor knows best, the opposite extreme of what I initially argued against. But you didn't make that argument, because you didn't take your retard pill this morning like doctor said and decided to bring up a bunch of completely unrelated shit, so I had to do it for you.
Come at me, bro, free shot, let's wrap this up so I can go to bed.
'Everything in moderation'. There we go. The end. G'night everybody.

>>8350338

I've heard some people say that they self med and just get regular blood tests. So they essentially do get guidance, but don't actually have to go the full official rout since doctors have a legal obligation to their health concerns, while also being unable to stop you from doing whatever you'll do in your own time. Whereas if the HRT was coming from the doctor, they'd have an obligation to have you go about it a certain way since they're the source of the medication and bear responsibility if you're fucking yourself up.

Don't take my word for it though.

>>8350354

...Are you trying to use that phrase to answer my question? Because that's fucking horrific grammar if that's what you're trying to do. You're also not proving anything, being unable or unwilling to answer my questions doesn't impede my ability to ask questions or seek my own answers.
You might as well say that saying "I don't know" is telling someone not to question shit. Again, you're saying that if you're not being spoonfed koolaid so that you don't have to do any thinking or questioning for yourself, then your freedom to think and question is being compromised. You're ridiculous.

>>8350045
>my sweet summer child
You're on 4chan, not tumblr. Mind your company.

>>8350254
No I can't, I'm uk. We have 6 gender clinics in the whole of the uk, you need a referral to get there. And they have months of wait times, then lots of gatekeeping. Don't get socialised health care. It always goes to shit. Keep it private in america

>>8350399
You still are too dense to understand. I said to have centers, but it should be a choice to use them or not. If you hate freedom so much, you'll probably like living in a place like Russia or China.

>>8350262
I don't believe that gender is a social construct. But the gender of a person being COMPLETELY down to xy chromosome or xx chromosome isn't really true either. Eg trans women have a brain map closer to woman's then a mans. Who we are is not as simple as year 7 biology

>>8350418
Yeah, I myself am going to see if it's all all feasible to go in for the blood tests

>>8350452
Seriously this person is past the point of reasonable discussion, there probably shitposting or 12 or both, I'd just let them have there retarded nanny state view. Your not going to change their mind.

>>8350452
>I said to have centers, but it should be a choice to use them or not.

>imagine waking up every morning being this fucking retarded

No shit nigga, gee, I was suggesting we force everyone to do it whether they like it or not, what a kooky misunderstanding, we should write a Seinfeld episode together!

If it's a centre and has people determining correct safe dosages, that's regulation you dumbfuck. Glad to see you agree with me after all and are just too stupid to understand it.

>>8350451
I just checked the Nottingham waiting time and it's 24 months.

This board usually defends the UK's healthcare.

>>8350529
>24 months.
literally why?

>>8350514
You dislike freedom. Got it. Enjoy the super nanny state that's coming.

>>8350542

Buzzwords. You could argue against the shit I'm saying so easily, I fucking gave you a freebie, but you seem to just know literally nothing about this topic.

>>8350550
You argue against letting people choose what to put in their own bodies. That's against freedom me boi. Not hard to understand.

>>8350569
>You argue against letting people choose what to put in their own bodies.
No I didn't.

>That's against freedom me boi.
That's a ridiculously simplistic view.

>>8350529
Every time the state gets into something it goes to shit. If it was privatised competition would give us clinics which don't have a wait time of 2 years as a new clinic would start a business that doesn't have a 2 year wait time.
However be careful that point of view is coming from an ancap. But then again I'm an ancap from the evidence I see. I'm not one to put ideology infront of reason.

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Did someone say
>SFW
?

>>8348602
This. OP is blinded by privilege, ingratitude and ignorance of the history of Trans experience. OP should stfu and learn something about the struggles of her predecessors who didn't have helicopter parents hovering over them with hormone blockers and princess dresses at age 2.

>>8350529
I've rarely seen it defended here.
But it's no surprise seeing that your politicians underfund NHS in hopes of privatizing it.

>>8350343
>Letting people have free access to all meds would hardly bother me
All? So you don't have problem with antibiotics being made ineffective because people take them improperly or when they don't need them at all, putting the whole population at risk?

>>8350624
Reality has an ancap bias.

>>8350773
Massive wait times aren't unique to Britain, it's pretty much where you see socialised healthcare somewhere for a long time, you get ineffective service. They don't need to self regulate so much as they won't lose customers if they have a shitty service. As the customers are secured by taxes

>>8348865

Isn't East Texas great tho? We've got a whole 1 gay bar!

>>8350773
>throw other people's money at it and everything will be better for some reason!
t. socialists

>>8351014
it used to be better though, it's become markedly worse over the last few decades due to defunding

the tranny services have not moved on from a 70s standard both because of a lack of funding and because the public didnt much care for trannies until recently

im sure america's system of insurance or die will work better for the UK though, just destroy the entire healthcare system people's lives depend on because a few pieces of it need fixing

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>>8350966
isn't houston in east texas?
i hear it has lots of gay bars.

>>8351042
>im sure america's system of insurance or die will work better for the UK though
I love how you can immediately spot an American based on how desperate they are to fix everything at home just to avoid being financially ruined visiting a doctor.

>>8351042
>because of a lack of funding
[citation needed]

>>8350812
You could just limit their distribution. Require a pharmacists approval. It seems pretty ridiculous we have guys with PhDs simply stuffing pills into bottles for like $60/hr. Make them actually do something.

>>8351067
>how desperate they are to fix everything at home
what do you mean by this, anon? this turn of phrase is a bit confusing to me

>>8351146
Like super gluing wounds instead of having them properly treated, that kind of stuff.

>>8351268
>>8351067
actually, yeah, even with insurance, some of the copays can get ridiculous.

>>8351107
>You could just limit their distribution. Require a pharmacists approval.
...Pretty much like we do now?

>>8353616
No because it would be OTC but with statistical data to monitor the distribution just like how stuff like pseudoephedrine is done to catch meth producers.
You could monitor and limit overuse of antibiotics without requiring the hassle of doctor appointments.

>>8351268
Superglue is proven to actually be better than stitches. It apparently produces less scars. A lot of doctors swear by it for c-sections because it produces less psychological aftereffects because superglue produces nearly no scar unlike stitches.

Regarding healthcare, is it possible to have both socialised and privatised? ie, put up with long wait times in exchange for free treatment, or choose to pay whatever you're willing to for more competitive service, ensuring people have reasonable access to both options and no one's forced to be financially ruined by getting sick, or stuck waiting 24 months for something they can buy online immediately.

Sort of like how we have a government mail system vs courier companies, or public transport vs private taxis. Por que no las dos?

>>8353629
Yes Canada has both.

>>8353621

I don't really see the difference. (I should point out that I'm not the one who brought this up btw, since I'm clearly a dummy).

>>8353631

How's that working out for them?

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>>8353642
Pretty good I'd say

>>8353638
It would be exactly the same, or nearly the same, which is the entire point. You gain a whoppingly huge amount of freedom with no real change in public risk.

>>8353665
>You gain a whoppingly huge amount of freedom
...By avoiding one little trip to the doctor to confirm that the shit you're spending money and time on will actually do anything for you?

>>8353674
For many things sure. But for HRT that's obviously not the case because it's a guarded procedure due to political strife. Doesn't matter what the 'official' recommendations are if your doctor holds a political opinion against transgenders you're not getting HRT whether you like it or not.

>>8353685
>if your doctor holds a political opinion against transgenders you're not getting HRT whether you like it or not.
Is that legal? I remember a couple of years ago there was a big drama over some woman who was a government employee refusing to serve gays or some shit, and she got like fired and charged or something, because she's a government employee and doesn't have the right to insert her political opinions into government work.

But also, aren't pharmacists just as much of a problem? All the stories about pharmacists refusing to sell young girls birth control, or sell abortion products, even when they've been prescribed by doctors.

>>8353650
muh Norway

>>8353695
It's perfectly legal because doctors aren't obliged to prescribe you medicine. Most doctors will just say random stuff like "oh I'll get you a referral" and you'll never hear from them again.
Doctors are required to provide healthcare for whatever conditions you have but if you're not self-medding and you're saying you are trans there's not a ton of proof for your condition, or at least not enough to win a court case. You'd need to see a gender therapist, which requires a referral, and you obviously couldn't get that referral, therefore you're fucked.

Pharmacists cannot legally refuse honoring prescriptions because you were prescribed the medicine and it's not really any of their concern why you're getting it. They know absolutely nothing about you so why would they refuse honoring a script? There are technically cis men out there with low estrogen as well, it causes erectile dysfunction and such.

>>8353707
>Most doctors will just say random stuff like "oh I'll get you a referral" and you'll never hear from them again.
And yet people defend doctors when I call them scum.
They do shit like this to everyone, not just trans people.
At the very least they should be honest with the patient.

>>8353629
The problem with that is that your still paying for the socialised healthcare via taxes. If it was completely privatised it would be so much cheaper, both as you keep more of your pay check, and it wouldn't only be rich people paying for private healthcare, so it would be cheaper. Also you wouldn't have the inefficiency that comes with government.

>>8353695
With state doctors if they say no your fucked. With private pharmacys if they say no you go to a different pharmacy and don't shop there anymore, if they say no to too many people they go under and a pharmacy that doesn't gatekeep takes their place. The market automatically weeds out people who discriminate.

>>8353821
It's not cheaper though. The US spends the most amount of money on healthcare per capita compared to every single other country in the entire world

>>8353753
They can't be honest because of laws that "protect us". In truth those laws protect people that discriminate against us an drive the hate underground so we can't deal with it, and oust the people that discriminate.

>>8353830
That's the fault of obamacare, it made prices skyrocket to the point where people can't afford it anymore, there are countless stories of peoples life's being finacially crippled due to obamacare.
I'm not suprised if you didn't hear about that part of it as the press is always selective about there reporting.
https://youtu.be/bzlcXOFs5n8
I generally dislike trump so skip to 0:40 if you don't want to listen to him. I agree with him on this point though.

>>8353851
lmao no it's not obamas fault... the US has never had any point in history where they have not spent more on healthcare than any other nation in the world.
Coincidentally the US has stumbled into liberal economics entirely by accident though. You incidentally enact keynesian policies on healthcare without realizing it. So yeah you spend huge sums of money on healthcare but make it back in taxes because technically speaking diseases make money. The US dumps huge amounts of money into STDs and other diseases compared to socialized systems and they reap the reward in corporate taxes because luckily for the US like 90% of scientific research on diseases occurs in the US.
For example, HIV draws in $20bil to $30bil worldwide. Of that about 3/4 of it is directly going back into the US. Those companies have a 13% corporate tax I believe, they also have several thousand employees, very well paid employees mind you, and they also invest in other things and so forth. Basically it's entirely coincidental that the US accidentally succeeds at liberal economics and they do it very well without even realizing it much to the chagrin of republicans, or I guess not really because republicans probably don't even realize they're doing liberal economics.

>>8353821
>If it was completely privatised it would be so much cheaper
Being cheaper doesn't necessarily mean being affordable. For people who have to choose between going to the doctor and paying rent, it's definitely cheaper to just be covered via tax (if they even make enough money to pay taxes).

>>8353836
Interesting perspective. Thank you.

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>>8348583
>1998
You were born in 1995, cara, which you yourself have stated in the past. You're old as shit and will never pass because you're too much of a worthless idiot to transition early like others your age and even older.

>>8354596
Can't speak for cars but I was born in 1999 and I've only just found out I'm trans. Not everyone has the exposure to know they're trans, and the support to transition early. Stop being a self entitled little bitch, not everyone grew up exactly as you grew up.

>>8355414
Why did you only just find out? Didn't you notice you were inserting as the girl since puberty?

>>8355414
With all the widely available resources and public discussion of trans people for the past 10+ years, you're only just finding out now, huh dipshit?

lol Fuck off. You're not actually trans and defending carashit is the stupidest thing someone in your current situation could do.

>>8355444
I didn't know what trans was or that I had that option. I knew I wanted to be more feminine since I could remember, and then a shit tonne more stuff came up when puberty came around. Trans to me ment transvestite, 50 year old man in a red cocktail dress. I couldn't relate to them so I had ~6 years of mental hell with no idea what the problem was. My brain also repressed any memories where I had trans warning signs. To the point where I couldn't remember what I is yesterday, my memories have pretty much flooded back since I accepted I'm transgender.
Our brains are fucking amazing at self deception.

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>>8355444
this this this!

>>8350278

Are you the same parrot poster from years back?

>>8355468
See
>>8355488
I didn't have any exposure of what trans people were like. I was an edgy kid so I was echo chambered away from them.

>>8355488
What were the signs?

>>8350308

Your pharmacist already gives you a run-down of what your medication does and what to watch out for, why can't they do that while skipping the prescription?

>>8355503
I always thought cis girls were lucky and I wanted to e like them.
I hated doing stupid guy things in puberty.
I got along with girls way better than guys I though I belonged better with them.
I never felt masculine and wouldn't have cared if I turned into a girl.
I always thought my hands looked to big and wrong for somereason.
I hated my dick, that one really confused me as it's well above average.
I cried and hated it when I discovered my body getting hairy.
I hated being muscly, and doing things which I knew would get me muscly.
I knew I was different from other people but I couldn't figure out why.
I hate wearing suits, etc. I just feel wrong in them.
I'm sure there's more but they'd need to come into my memory

>>8355503
Oh I had a fantasy that some accident would happen to my dick and I would lose it and have to become a girl.

>>8355503
And more recently when I read what other trans people have written I started felt overwhelmed emotionally and started crying.
Why I've written on here other mtfs have said they literally felt the same as I am feeling when they were 17~18.
Absolutely detest the idea of growing up into a man, to the point suicide is preferable.
Couldn't stop watching people's transformation videos, I felt very emotional and felt a pulling on my heart whilst watching them.
Really happy when someone says I look feminine or refers to me as a girl.

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>>8355414
>born in 1999
Wow, you old nigga.
How's the late transitioner life treating ya?

>>8355825
18, It's not an early transition but it's not late either

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>>8355844
>but it's not late either

>>8355722
>when I read what other trans people have written
What experiences in particular?

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>born in '85
>still transitioned younger than cara

>>8354596
So Cara started transitioning at 22? And here I felt like shit for starting at 16...

>>8355850
You go in too hard and too fast dude, it's obvious your a shitposter

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>>8355536
>I always thought cis girls were lucky and I wanted to e like them.
>wanted to be like them
>wanted to be
AGP
>I hated doing stupid guy things in puberty.
Irrelevant
>I got along with girls way better than guys I though I belonged better with them.
Irrelevant
>I never felt masculine and wouldn't have cared if I turned into a girl.
Okay
>I hated my dick, that one really confused me as it's well above average.
Okay
>I cried and hated it when I discovered my body getting hairy.
Okay
>I hated being muscly, and doing things which I knew would get me muscly.
Okay
>I knew I was different from other people but I couldn't figure out why.
Irrelevant
>I hate wearing suits, etc. I just feel wrong in them.
Irrelevant

AGP/non-trans behavior in 5 out of 8 instances, that's a pretty bad TruTrans(tm) score my pham.
Maybe you are just a confused anatomic autogynephile? The likely course is to get on hormones even though they are a waste on late transitioners like you tbhon.

>>8355877
he's 21

>>8355872
Generally when they write how they feel, or how they discovered how they were trans. Or how dysphoria is for them. Shit like that, I don't really remember the specifics of everything I read.

>>8355881
He was 21 a year ago. He's 22.

>>8355881
Still, he will be turning 22 this year and hasn't even started hormones yet. That's depressing as fuck, karma hit him hard.

>>8355879
I don't need your validation, my dysphoria is fucking real. Like you know jack shit about my life from a 4chan post which took me a minute to write. If you knew half of what I have to go through emotionally you'd get the fuck away from me with that agp bullshit.

>>8355879
>>wanted to be
>AGP
it's just wording

>>I hated doing stupid guy things in puberty.
>Irrelevant
>>I got along with girls way better than guys I though I belonged better with them.
>Irrelevant
lolwut, those are hsts af

>>I knew I was different from other people but I couldn't figure out why.
>Irrelevant
an agp would know why she was different.

>>I hate wearing suits, etc. I just feel wrong in them.
>Irrelevant
agps love female clothing. hstses hate male clothing.

>>8348617
Cara wasn't born in 98 i think she was born in 95

>>8355874
I was born in 1990 and transitioned at 18. It's hard to imagine someone 5 years younger than me transitioned this late.

>>8355908
Thank you despite what I said there
>>8355907
I really need the validation, I feel so emotionally weak right now ;_; I've only been on hrt for about 2 weeks

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>>8355908
>it's just wording
AGP excuses.
>>I got along with girls way better than guys I though I belonged better with them.
Wrong. Gay guys get along with girls way better than guys so it's not like this makes them trans.
>>>I knew I was different from other people but I couldn't figure out why.
People who do not fit the norm in general including shy introverted people feel they are "different" from other people and can't figure out why. So not a very legitimate indication of being trans.
>hstses hate male clothing.
Wrong. HSTSs don't mind male clothing because they don't have an irrational revulsion against male clothes (like suits) like AGPs do.

Try again.

>>8355962
>Wrong. HSTSs don't mind male clothing because they don't have an irrational revulsion against male clothes (like suits) like AGPs do.

Eli Erlick is AGP, that's why she's wearing a suit, she's trying to look like a dyke.

>>8355962
Eli isn't HSTS btw.

>>8355907
Calm your T-rage there, sir.
You don't need to show me how much of a "big alpha man" you are to me.

>>8355979
>T-rage
>Sir
>Alpha man
You overplayed your hand, obviously a troll trying to annoy me, worked for a bit.

>>8355968
Eli is straight and that is just a part of her nonconformist "queer" presentation.

She clearly exhibits the signs of being AAP (the suits) and it's likely if she posted on /tttt/ she would find home on /femgen/.

>>8356023
But I'm AMP/AAP and everyone says I'm AGP because apparently AMP correlates more with gynephilia than androphilia. But I'm skeptical of that, because it would make AAPs lesbians, which they're clearly not. So maybe you're on to something. She does seem to enjoy sucking on pickles.

>>8355962
>AGP excuses.
gatekeeping excuses

>Wrong. Gay guys get along with girls way better than guys so it's not like this makes them trans.
what is hsts

>feel they are "different" from other people and can't figure out why.
it was because anon is hsts. your contention is they are agp but then they would know why.

>HSTSs don't mind male clothing because they don't have an irrational revulsion against male clothes (like suits) like AGPs do.
wrong way around and your pic shows it

>>8356052
Now you are confusing AGP with AAP. And Eli is a classic AAP because if she was AGP she'd be wearing those frilly dresses, chokers, rainbow socks, fishnets, pink nails, blue hair and other fetish-y things late transitioners like to wear so how many times do we need to go through this?

And anon comes off as AGP due to multiple reasons. Suffice to say they also conflate shyness with femininity and argue with the logic of a nerdy failed male that if they hate being a male or male-typical activities then they obviously must be a female.

I still think he should go on hormones but he will never be TruTrans or HSTS. That's all.

>>8356135
It's not just some kind of fetish for me, I just want out of this disgusting male body and be recognised, by others and myself in a mirror, as a woman. I don't care about passing pretty that much. Just as long as I pass

>>8356135
>And Eli is a classic AAP because if she was AGP she'd be wearing those frilly dresses, chokers, rainbow socks, fishnets, pink nails, blue hair and other fetish-y things late transitioners like to wear so how many times do we need to go through this?

Lmao what the hell? Is this what you thought all AGPs were like?

>>8356135
agps can like wearing suits instead of the fetish-y things sometimes

he hates male-typical activities because he's an hsts

he's obsessed with passing too >>8356157

>>8356243
>HE'S a hsts
You go through the effort of defending me (which is really appreciated) but you won't use she? ;_;

>>8356157
>It's not just some kind of fetish for me
Even if it was but who I am to judge? You do you boo.

>>8356259
Not them but do you truly not get why someone else thinking you're throwing your life away for a fetish is hurtful?

>>8356257
i wasn't defending you?

but if you want to be a girl you can be! she's an hsts!

>>8356283
You were saying I'm hsts instead of an agp fetishist to that guy. I consider that defending me. Thanks for calling me she. Means a lot

>>8356308
>cares about correct pronouns above anything else even though he most likely looks like a typical testosterone-rekt 18 year old man
A G P

>>8356264
You make it sound as if their choice how they want to live their life somehow DIRECTLY affected you and maybe even harmed you.
Why do you care so much?

>>8356308
agps are actually trans and hstses are at their heart gays though...

>>8356330
You misunderstand. I'm saying that someone else thinking this *of them* when they don't feel like that is hurtful *to them*. They're not offended because someone "called them out" or would act to stop them, but because someone thinks they're not what they feel they are.

>>8356321
agps and hstses both care about pronouns

>>8350090
opiate epidemic was caused by oxycontin's company intentionally and persistently pressuring doctors to prescribe increasing dosages in a 12-hour cycle, as opposed to shortening the same dose to an 8-hour cycle which is actually effective and doesn't cause massive withdrawal cycles leading to addiction.

gatekeeping and medical authority caused the epidemic.

>>8356339
Out of agps and hsts, agps are the trutrans?

itt: privileged young person attempts to discredit the struggles of older people while being unaware of the vast differences in what was available and allowable at different points in time

>>8356423
yes?

>>8349124
>im a non transitioner
Keep telling yourself that, anon.

Tick, tock, tick, tock...

>>8355962
>Wrong. HSTSs don't mind male clothing because they don't have an irrational revulsion against male clothes (like suits) like AGPs do.
>Try again.
cis girls wear their boyfriend's sweatshirts sometimes. Checkmate athiests.

>>8357545
I refuse to accept hondom. I suppose if the world of the future was extremely hon friendly I might. But I'd also need proof that transition is the best way to live with AGP. Since the condition is so poorly understood and a lot of people have terrible transition experiences, i'd rather have a wait and see attitude. Since my youth and potential beauty has been destroyed by T already, I am in no rush.

>>8357585
it's only because it's their boyfriend's....

actually, do lesbians wear each other's clothes

>>8359200
If they're roughly the same size and therefore the clothes fit, I don't see why you wouldn't.

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>>8348839
1995 buddies!!

>>8359200
>>8359225
they do, they even share lingerie, allegedly

>>8365381
Het male fantasy.

>>8348583
Some of us had shit doctors and shit parents. Where i'm from when i was a kid a child had to wait until 18 to medically transition. The only way around was to force your doctors hand and self med. because of this most kids that came out early transition late and become total hons.

It's the types that can't be bothered to get hrt at all costs that are hons.