SHOULDER REDUCTION SURGERY...When?

>>8342403
I doubt it. Unlike surgeries for other bones like hip implants or rib removal, your shoulders end where your arm begins. It'd be many more times harder to reform the shoulder because of that. It'd be risky and expensive so there isn't much of an incentive to develop a surgery the vast majority of people would never even want.

>>8342428
>there isn't much of an incentive to develop a surgery the vast majority of people would never even want.

The same could be said for Facial Feminisation Surgery And SRS.

Only a small percentage of humans want their dick cut up and reattached into a hole.
But here we are.
It's being done.

Bone grafts for hip implants seem more doable.
But they're still not being done. Why is that?

Can't they just trim
the clavicles?

>>8342504
Shoulders are extremely complex. I'm not an expert at anatomy, but you'd be needing something closer a complete shoulder reconstruction to get full functionality out of a shoulder reduction due to all the moving parts it contains.

>>8342521
Alright so my best options are to wait a decade or two till prostetic limbs become better than organic ones. And just remove my arms along with my shoulders and implant artificial ones.

I guess thats the only way

>>8342403
There's this guy... http://www.dr-kimura.com/ope-list/other/

I don't know if he's legit or not though.

>>8342589
what does it say?

>>8342403
desu even if i shaved 5'' off of my shoulder width i'd still be fucking mannish.
21'' shoulders without lifting. TWENTY ONE.
im broader than bodybuilers my height on fucking steroids.

>>8342439
Because nobody gives a fuck about trans well being and now that nearly all future trannies will transition during puberty there will be no more research into helping hons

>>8342439
FFS evolved out of already existing facial reconstruction procedures and SRS evolved out of already existing procedures for dealing with intersex individuals.
Similarly things like HRT evolved out of already existing menopausal hrt and birth control.

Basically nothing for transsexuals exists because of transsexuals. It's the remnants of other fields.

>>8343921
>SRS evolved out of already existing procedures for dealing with intersex individuals.
I didn't know that. Do you have links to more info on how the switch happened and what the changes were?

>>8343946
Well most of the early stuff was basically just castrations. Eventually they started trying riskier operations which meant implanting random organs and stuff. Most people that underwent SRS in the past didn't survive the procedures
Here's an article on the physician that performed most of the early operations:
https://zagria.blogspot.ca/2016/02/felix-abraham-1901-1937-doctor.html#.WSd-A2jyuUk
His work doing things like mastectomies, penectomies, castrations, etc. were originally from experiments done on prisoners, animals, sex-offenders, people in asylums, etc.
They took all that and basically just started doing it to people that legit wanted it. I don't have much other info on it because like 99% of the books and articles on it are all in German.

>>8343991
I'd really like to know more, about the failed operations and the experiments preceding them.

>I don't have much other info on it because like 99% of the books and articles on it are all in German.
Frustrating. Even the references in that blog post are German.

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>>8343921
Then transgender treatment options will get a rebirth when transhumanism becomes a reality.

When the majority or a large percentage of people choose to become more than human all controversy regarding transgender individuals will cease to exist.

The tech they will use to augment their bodies and minds will inevitably help us in our transition. Prosthetics which surpass our natural limbs will replace our limbs and bones and give us the figure we want. Our skin will be easily rejuvenated with future treatments. Even aging may be reversed or slowed down.

And then, we will have our victory over the world

>>8343026
Damn iktf i'm easily 21" and not particularly /fit/ unfortunately some people weren't meant to be trannies. How do sleeveless womens tops fit you?

>>8343893
There will be lots of gen y hons still look at how many boomers and gen x came out of the trans closet. Gen z will have plenty of masc repressors as well, all it takes is a mildly transphobic enviroment and some alt-right/terf talking points. AGPs repress easily it seems.

>>8346796
Yes I think this will ultimately be the case. A lot of people have said transgenderism is a part of transhumanism.

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>>8342403
YOU PEOPLE ARE FUCKING SICK!!

You want to fix some "shoulder to hip ratio"? Do the reasonable thing and seek to get the goddamn hips widened, you selfdestructive fucks! Oh boohoo, you can't pretend to be a lanklet, whatsa matter, you've now gotten horrifically bored of crushing those nasty girly enviable lanklets? Payback's a bitch, bitchlarper!

>>8343893
see, if you want to have any hope of such wonders ever creeping up on us, you need to make damn sure that trannies do NOT manage to all transition before/during puberty!

>>8346796
see: >>>/k/34078538

>>8351349
What
Are you implying I don't want my hips widened?

>>8346796
Your head is up in the clouds if you think anyone but the elite is going to get a single bit of the good shit.
>>8343991
>>8344011
>tfw speak fluent german
plebs

>>8351489
Oh, I bet you want everything. I bet you'd want C cups and your torso narrowed, even if you could just get flesh and blood D cups. I bet you'd want your waist tapered and your butt filled out, even if you could just get your butt filled out however much you need to.

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>>8342818
>>8342589

>By improving anger shoulder and wide shoulders with clavicular shortening surgery, we will change to a delicate shoulder width. It is an operation mainly for sexual identity disorder (MTF: man → female). There are a relatively large number of cases in our hospital. Although there is not much restriction of daily life from the early postoperative day, there are 4 scratches remaining on the skin of the collarbone.

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I wish we could just rapid grow clones to our current ages, but instead of having them go through puberty we put them on hormones

Then when there at the desired age.
We take them from their suspended animation tubes filled with goop and put our brains inside of them.

>>8351710
Why put them on hormones? Just alter the testes to produce the desired balance.

>>8342589
>before pic shoulders rounded forward to make them appear bigger
>after pic shoulders pulled back to make them appear smaller
what did zie mean by this

>>8351710
Why does this cis woman not pass

>>8351710
Why the fuck wouldn't you just grow a cis female and then brain swap it?

>>8351884
Rejection issues?
Getting to be yourself somewhat?

>>8351897
>rejection issues

No more so than growing a biological male and brain swapping. Men and women are not that different under the skin, despite the meme. Major organ rejection will be a factor regardless of biological sex of the transplanted.

>Getting to be yourself somewhat?

From a relativistic standard, even a male clone will not and can never be "yourself". Only you can be yourself. Is a female identical twin of a male (very rare, but not unheard of in the literature) not genetically the same?

>>8351884
Like anyone would pay for that. If you did it that way, you could have a delicate little bitch with tiny cock and balls. You could even start puberty at age eight, see what that gets you. You could even lock it in a corset growing up. A markedly special piece of meat.

>>8351963
>No more so than growing a biological male and brain swapping. Men and women are not that different under the skin, despite the meme. Major organ rejection will be a factor regardless of biological sex of the transplanted.

Missing the point. If it's a clone of you, rejection is less likely because it's your genetic material.

>From a relativistic standard, even a male clone will not and can never be "yourself". Only you can be yourself. Is a female identical twin of a male (very rare, but not unheard of in the literature) not genetically the same?

You can't clone yourself and have that clone be the opposite sex

>>8352011
Hah! Doesn't fucking matter! If you made a female clone of yourself, that brain would not be able slip in to it because it wouldn't fit in the new cranial vault!

Even if it was just done with hormones, it still wouldn't be quite the right size!

>>8352011
>You can't clone yourself and have that clone be the opposite sex
Yes you can, loads of ways.

>duplicate your X chromosome to replace the Y
>remove the SRY gene from the Y and replace it with genes from the X
>treat the clone with feminizing hormones from and AAs from the start

>>8352136
see >>8352062

>>8352062
Can't it be grown a little to fit a male brain without looking really big or having a male face?

>>8352653
no

>>8352062
>>8355727
Oh quit poo-pooing it. It's never going to happen anyway, let them have their fun.

Besides, if we get cloning tech that advanced, I'm pretty sure they will have come up with a solution to this problem.

>>8355773
We'd likely just 3D print what we need in the next several decades

For fucks sake, if you dont like your proportions you can just amputate limbs and replace them. That's decades away, but still. Within our lifetime.

But what matters is NOW.

If you can't pass either repress until you die or the tech to pass becomes available.

That's really all you should do.

>>8355792
Actually I went into HRT and the first 3 or so years of it thinking I had absolutely zero chance of passing. It still is vastly preferable to living inside a normal male body, even if it's not as ideal as a passing body.

What changed everything for me was getting healthy and skinny, boymode started to actually fail and I realized I had hope. Whether or not that happened though, it was still way better to be someone with the perception of no hope of passing but still on hormones, than to be a regular cis male in physical form.

Rather than repress I would say hormones + boymode, or shit will get too difficult to go on. There is no point waiting for technology to catch up and wasting your years inbetween in a body that you utterly despise in every way. Regardless of how bad your body is, it's still going to be more tolerable on HRT. I started at 25 and now I pass. I wish I had started earlier, but oh well.

You might think you have no hope now but you're also using a place as toxic as this without the tranny-armor formed through years of dealing with non-passers and repressers. Those who repress would factually be happier on HRT.

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>>8355857
I'm actualy doing the same approach anon. I'm 21 and on hrt. I'm planning on staying boymode till tech makes me passable.
I'm using the femboy regiment, of bica and serms as estrogen. Prevents me from growing boobs which is a good thing since I would look disgusting if I grew them on my male frame.

Hrt also prevents me from ever getting male pattern baldness (I actualy started prematurely balding which made me suicidal but it reversed completely now, along with the hairline).

If anything it will keep my face youthful and stop body hair development, most importantly balding, and beard development.

Unfortunately I don't pass because my browridge and nose cartilage is obviously masculinized. My jaw is pretty fem tho. But it doesn't help.


Going hon-mode while working in the service industry is death, so I plan on staying boymode. I still get weird looks tho, because HRT gave me mixed facial features compared to before.

Honestly I'll just save for FFS once possible so I get my babyface back. Pre-puberty me and early puberty me is fine.

But now I can't even look myself in the mirror. I just wish to neotenize my face and body (but mostly my face).

Females have childlike faces often, because estrogen stunts bone growth. I resent them. So for me it's a mix of being trans and peter pan sindrome.

I don't have gender dysphoria. But every single male feature is making me wish to kill myself.

While female puberty wouldn't bother me at all. In fact I'd love having a slender but slightly curvy body with hips and small breasts and narrow shoulders (I hate my shoulder and hip size).

Being an actual girl would make me the happiest person on the planet

>>8356026
>I don't have gender dysphoria
I meant I dont have GENITAL dysphoria.

I very much have gender dyphoria about the rest of my body though.

>>8356026
Oh that's cool, boibewbs are easy as fuck to hide though to be honest, femme. Switch to estrogen, you won't get enough to be a problem trust me. Femgen is just whiners and RPing in regards to boibewbs issues.

Or whatever.

One interesting thing that happened to me though:
I used to think I had no genital dysphoria, but it came up hardcore once I started passing. Like intensely, to the point where now I'm considering not getting an orchi, which I have planned for so long, just because I might want SRS (which I think is barbaric and virtually always has horrible results) purely just to not have a dick down there. Never thought I'd get like this but here I am lol.

>>8356026
>Prevents me from growing boobs
I don't know if it's possible to grow your own after using serms though, in case it isn't, you aren't afraid of someday wishing you did just grow them instead and hid them?
I wasn't to found of getting breasts early on either but after 2 months or so I loved it and only wanted bigger, a year in now I still want bigger, but I'm also really happy with my result so far.

>>8356071
Ah I can't tell how I wish I could get FFS and all the good stuff right away....at this rate I won't get there until my thirties.....Maybe it's for the best.. Who knows maybe they'll improve it by then

>>8356095
>I don't know if it's possible to grow your own after using serms though, in case it isn't, you aren't afraid of someday wishing you did just grow them instead and hid them?

No no, because the rest of my body would just make me hate myself more.

When we actualy get to the point technologicaly, where we can fix my other issues. Growing breast tissues with stem cells would be an easy task (In fact we've already done it in labs)

>>8356096
Well I for one am glad you are at least on HRT even if it is femboy regimen.

If the rest of your face is okay maybe you can have cheaper FFS just by doing brow and nose work. I wouldn't mind FFS myself to be prettier, but I am very nearly 30 and there is no way I could afford it even by 40 :/

I hope things go well for you. If I could go back in time I would have started HRT at 18 instead of 25 and blown all my student loan money on surgeries. Perhaps the blowing your student loan money on surgeries is an option for you?

>>8356123
Well it's not really an option. I'm lucky enough to go to University for almost free (its complicated). I do want to finish my studies and get a job in my dream career. So I intend to finish this. Dyphoria is making me depressed tho and one of my fears is, it will cause me to fail and drop out... It always made me procastrinate because all that effort sometimes seems for nothing because It won't give me what I want most...but oh well....

Once I'm done and employed I'll try saving for FFS.... I wish i knew self-medding was possible while still in high school...

>>8356138
>for almost free
So? I had a full ride scholarship and still took loans to live off of like a tard.

Take loans anyway, they WANT to give them out to as many people as they can because that's more money in their pocket in the future. I'm sure you qualify for some. Take the max amount you can and put it towards FFS procedure/s. Seriously I regret not doing this more than most things in life.

Then after you get your degree you can get a job and pay off the loans while getting to enjoy a pretty face and a girl's social roles.

>>8356152
Actualy, that's a good idea anon. Thanks.. :)

Okay.. First I'll see how well I'm doing with Uni stuff for a while. After, if it looks like I'll succeed I'll consider doing it.

What are the usual requirements? I literaly know nothing about student loans....

>>8356173
Requirements: having a pulse, wanting student loans, not having horribad credit score

Depending on your parent's income, marital status (divorced etc), so on and so forth, you can qualify for even more or potentially get FASFA loans. But everyone should qualify for at least thousands of dollars, assuming relatively blank slate with credit or even some bad. As long as you haven't had a car repossessed or defaulted on a loan or something in the past, you should qualify for something.

It has been over 5 years since I graduated now, so I don't quite remember the process, but it seemed really fucking easy and most of what I did was done in minutes and online IIRC. Some paperwork for some of the loans/grants. I really fucking wasted such an amazing fucking opportunity fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuckkkkkkkkk ;.;

Also, why wait to see if you're doing good? You'll be happier as a girl with defaulted student loans and no degree than as a boy with no degree and no debt.

Switch to an easy ass major if you have to, even.

>>8356193
We'll they're divorced? Does that give me bonus points?

I'm just afraid FFS won't make me pass completely. What about the body..

I'm 5'6 but I know I don't have girl proportions

>>8356223
>We'll they're divorced? Does that give me bonus points?
Yes absolutely. You might be able to get FASFA subsidized loans and things like grants. Google them, I do not recall the process, it has been too long :/

But my mom being divorced got me much higher qualifications for loans and grants and stuff. So them being divorced is a good thing for you.

Body can be hidden behind clothes and you're 5'6 for fucks sake. You have to be a footlet if you're that much of a manlet. And a handlet. I'm 5'10 and my shoulders are wider than my hips but I still pass, I have many features I still don't like but they do not hold me back. Be on top of your clothing, makeup, and hair game and you'll probably be fine with FFS especially.

One other thing; have you tried losing weight or are you at the lower end of normal BMI? Losing weight changed my fucking life. Went from megahon to passing. Crazy ass shit.

>>8356320
>But my mom being divorced got me much higher qualifications for loans and grants and stuff. So them being divorced is a good thing for you.
This is so unjust : (

>>8356327
If she had a high income I would have been just as fucked.

If your parents are married and have low income you still could likely qualify.

And if they have high income, they are shit parents for not helping you out. Fucking boomers, man. Though I don't know if you guys are boomer spawn anymore like I am. Average user of this board is at least 10 years younger than me or so.

>>8355857
You managed to not be hyper masc because you were a fat estrogenized shit
Your advice isn't relevant to those of us who were always skinny fucks. It doesn't help passing

>>8356369
Yeah that's why I explicitly said:
>or are you at the lower end of normal BMI?

Because I know it is useless advice for those who have always been thin.

My advice then would be gain some fucking weight and then lose it. Can't redistribute fat if there's none to redistribute.

Also, I wasn't fat when I started HRT, or before it. I got fat on HRT, early on, so it was mostly masculine fat IMO. I started at 25, too.

>>8356401
>>8356369
Also if you want to blame my luck on anything, don't blame it on fat, blame it on the fact I was a late bloomer.

This is part of why I'm so angry at myself for not starting HRT at 18 or so. If I had, my voice would have been higher, I would have been an inch or two shorter (had growth up to 21 or so), my hips probably would have grown or changed some, and other things like that. I really screwed myself over but being a late bloomer likely saved my ass in the end.

>>8356415
I just lash out at anyone who passes because of extreme jealousy. I only read your latest post
If I don't pass by three years Ill probably have to kms

>>8356369
I was morbidly obese as a teenager, I still became masc after years of test exposure. I really feel like a man now in my 30s. I was quite neotenous looking when younger, still have a touch of that.

>>8355727
It can.

You transfer the consciousness. Not the brain with complex electrical transfer

>>8352062
>If you made a female clone of yourself, that brain would not be able slip in to it because it wouldn't fit in the new cranial vault!

I'd have the doctors shave some of it off. I have an IQ of 122, I could probably stand to lose some greymatter anyway.

>>8359512
DO NOT DO THAT! You have no idea how much it'll fuck you up! You think it's all just a supply of stuff, like muscle or even fat, but it's nothing like that! It's all laboriously moulded to perform specific functions, both ingenuity related and not! You'd have your ability to think just crapping out in certain cases, your movements fucked up, your memories trashed, and even your ability to form new memories damaged!

You'll see when you test this workaround out on someone else! Well, he'll see much more than you'll see, but the point's clear.

>>8359588
Lol dis nigga never herd of brain plasticity.

>>8359588
Can they remove the memories of me being trans? Maybe I can just..... believe I'm a cis female, what's wrong with that?

>>8352062
>implying a male fetus exposed to endocrine modifiers since early infancy wouldn't have an undersized cranial vault too

Just do a full head transplant moron.

>>8360247
Why not have your brain stored elsewhere and have it communicate with your body via wifi or something like that :DDD

>>8360384
>not just digitizing your brain and putting the chip in the bitch's femoral or w/e

>>8360179
You cannot select any particular memories to remove. The closest option available would be to remove ability to control particular muscles, or to remove the capacity for particular thoughts, like, you could probably remove the ability to read male faces.

>>8359620
NO! This shit ain't gonna work! What the fuck are you gonna do, test out this vaunted ability of a reduced brain to function on a retarded person so that you can claim that they've always been like this? Stop thinking about this, before you regret it!

>>8351742
Not really... You can quite clearly see they're tucked inwards, not backwards.

>>8347618
>How do sleeveless womens tops fit you?
i wear nothing but sweaters year round. everything is hella baggie so i can hide and be more gender neutral. my arms are 15.5'', and i'm not fat nor do i lift (14-15% bodyfat). test levels hover around 950ng/dl, with a higher than average proportion of my test being free test. i forget the numbers other than my total, so i'd have to check my medical records to be exact

I would get shoulder surgery before ffs desu if it existed. I feel like it should exist in my lifetime cause it just seems like something we'd figure out by now.

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Shoulders already shrink considerably from HRT. Isn't there some fat in the vicinity to mess with to disrupt male proportion patterns?

>>8362996
I don't think so but ok

>>8366257
only if you're a fatass tbqdesu

>>8366379
Still would be way better to be a little fat or use some sort of fat implants instead of radically eating away at complex, vital body parts.

>>8366838
the shoulders shrinking meme is perpetuated by 1000ng/dl hons
if you haven't been bodybuilding your shoulder width is hardly going to decrease

>>8366859
But doesnt lack of T eat your muscles?

>>8367001
It does but it doesnt make a difference if youre not muscular already.

Which I wasn't and most young trannies arent

>>8342403
N A N O B O T S

This is why trannies should stop getting retarded CS degrees and go into truSTEM, to save themselves and all of us.

>>8367414
Yup.

Whose better motivated for that than a tranny

>>8366859
But that's not addressing the point there, it would be far more proper to be architecting bodies that are a little fatty rather than hacking down vital parts. Have more fat in surrounding areas to make key petite points look small by comparison.

>>8367414
nanomachines xon

>im never gonna make it!
>lose weight
>fine
Yeah congrats on being fat through puberty and getting less masculinization.

I was always skinny because I didn't eat and now I'm 6'1 with this boney head. I'm completely fucked.

>>8370116
That's not how body proportion work you tard.