Should refusing to use preferred pronouns be illegal?

>>8292767
no.

>>8292767
>openly admit committing child sex abuse
>nobody does a thing

What did society mean by this?

>>8292767
Of course, how is that even a question? A more pressing matter is how it should be punished?

>>8292784
Probably cause she wasn't even a teen?

>>8292767
No.
Being really rude to someone isn't illegal unless you get into straight up hate speech, so why would the wrong pronouns count?

In Canada it already is a crime.

>>8292815

Teens still get in shit for molesting children. She didn't. If she were a conservative she would already been banished out of hollywood.

>>8292835
Misgendering is hate speech, although hate speech shouldn't be illegal.

>>8292978
If she were a man she would be in prison.

NO
>>8292778
/thead

>>8292793
Death penalty? People who misgender are basically killing trans identities.

>>8293066
>hurting feelings is equatable to killing someone

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>>8292767
Absolutely! Just as people are already coming to terms with blasphemy needing to be illegal because it offends some immigrants, so to does it need to be illegal to fail to use honorific/polite 2nd person pronouns because vulgar-casual pronouns are deeply offensive to some immigrants.

>>8293087
>hurt feewings are equatable to stripping a human of their entire identity and mocking them at the most vulnerable level

Let me guess: you're cis.

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>>8292767
Trans people need to grow thicker skin.

>>8293206
>blasphemy needing to be illegal
No
>so to does it need to be illegal to fail to use honorific/polite 2nd person pronouns
NO

>>8293278
>used to
KEK
Any other basic human rights you need to take from us, cissy? Or will you "allow" us to exist now?

>>8293300
Yes!

it's such profound due justice that there's an ever-organizing battalion of immigrants joining arms against bastards who would dare to refer to them as "tu" or "du" along with god knows what other ways of maligning them!

>>8293220
Not them, but I'm trans and you need to delete your Tumblr and get on with your life. Offense is taken, not given. No one should be punished because you think they're mean. Grow up.

>>8295334
How exactly is one supposed to react when someones is obviously trying to demean you? Why do you want people to walk over you? Have you got no self respect? Do you realize you're just perpetuating tranny stereotypes of loving to be abused and/or raped?

>>8295384
>Why do you want people to walk over you?
muh bootstraps mindset

>>8295384
Not them, but there's a difference between "I really wish you wouldn't do that, it's disrespectful" and "Doing that is illegal, I'm calling the cops/take legal action against you."

>>8295384
I don't "love being abused." I just know how to turn the other cheek and be the bigger person without getting big daddy government involved. Seriously, most people learn "sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me" before they graduate kindergarten.

>>8295334
>No one should be punished because you think they're mean.
so hate speech should no longer be punishable?

>>8295427
>>8295334
You're both wrong.
You should punish them yourselves instead of giving away your power to a higher authority.

>>8292784
She's in the entertainment industry. They always get away with child molestation.

>>8295432
And how do you suggest punishing them?
I would just avoid said person as much as possible and cut off ties. If it's a coworker, I'd report them for harassment and let human relations deal with it.

>>8293248
>brazenly ostracized and rejected by peers and society and family
>assaulted and murdered at a rate higher than most any other group
>no legal protections or codified rights against abuse and discrimination
>has been happening for decades and has barely changed, even in liberal areas
>"need to grow thicker skin"
nice one cissy

>>8295427
Exactly. Hate speech laws imo violate the first amendment. People should be able to say whatever they want without legal consequences. I'm honestly surprised that there are people out there who think that people should be put in jail because of WORDS.

>>8295439
Use your words.
Use your fists.
Use whatever you want I don't care I'm not you.

>>8295393
Why shouldn't be purposely misgendering someone a hate crime liable to prosecution? Hate crimes against ethnic minorities are, aren't they?
>>8295397
If it was up to people like you the lgbt movement would still be parading around dressed in suits hoping straights would accept them.

>>8295432
>be me
>cissy bigot refuses to call me by preferred pronoun
>i catch him in an alley
>beat him up
>get lynched by the local klan for being a degenerate gone violent / get put in prison and gang raped to death because prison forces you to go to the one of your sex not gender.
perfect plan

>>8295441
Not them, but I am a tranny, and you do need to grow thicker skin. Stop trying to conflate mean words and murder. They're two entirely separate things. Also: If a trans person is murdered, the person who killed them will serve just as much time as if they had murdered a cis person. Stop pretending that there's some legal inequality here when there isn't, and stop trying to make speech you don't like illegal.

Oh, and I find it funny that you call people "cissie" which sounds like "sissy" which is exactly what you are if you want to arrest someone for being mean to you.

>>8295464
>local klan
>not being in an area where militants prevent right wing groups from parading around like cunts
The answer has always been obvious for any shit-end-of-the-stick minority. Just be better at violence.

>>8295471
Except for when people win by using a trans panic defense.

>>8295454
>If it was up to people like you the lgbt movement would still be parading around dressed in suits hoping straights would accept them.
First off, as long as LGBT people had equal rights, who cares if straight people like us? Secondly, I'd take that over the absolute degeneracy you see coming out of the movement now.

lolz no. But it should be illegal to not get trans people the mental help they need.

>>8295490
>degeneracy
grow up

>>8295483
Name me a single case where that actually got someone off the hook. Actually, name me enough for it to be statistically relevant, but you can start with just a handful, Seriously, I hate it when people bring that up because it's a piss-poor defense and any good lawyer would advise you to avoid it.

>>8295471
>implying there isn't less incentive to resolve tranny murders

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>>8295460
The only reason your parents tolerated you is because it's illegal to round up your child into a cage to sell to the cartels. Please kys cissie.

>>8295499
>defending people that walk around in dildo capes in front of children at parades and have tried to add pedophilia to the LGBT umbrella
Yeah, I'm the one in the wrong here.

>>8295490
I don't care if straights like us or nor but obviously is far more easier to get rights from the majority group when they don't want you exterminate it.

>>8295511
[Citation needed]

>>8295517
I agree, but there's a difference between wanting legal protection against violence and wanting legal protection against words. No matter how much progressive "journalists" will tell you otherwise, words =/= violence.

>>8292767
Yes. Misgendering is the same as calling black people niggers. It's violent and offensive (if you're doing it willingfully, not by mistake ofc)

>>8295519
Common sense, just look at any country where political correctness isn't widespread and you'll see the police doesn't give a shit if trannies or other vulnerable groups are murdered en masse. Here they only give you the impression they care cause otherwise they would get criticized by lefties.

>>8295528
>implying hateful speech isn't conductive for hateful acts
pls

>>8295531
>violent
I refer you to
>>8295397
>Seriously, most people learn "sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me" before they graduate kindergarten.

>>8295532
"Common sense" isn't a citation, friendo. BTW I'm pretty sure this discussion is about first world countries, not shitholes.

>>8295455
>Hate speech isn't punishable
FYI America isn't everywhere in the world.

why the hell should it be illegal to not reinforce your mental illness?

>>8295471
for what it's worth, jackass, i'm not advocating for misgendering to be illegal, i think it is stupid as well. I'm arguing against the absurd points people made in defense of that position. I think it is really disrespectful and should be looked down upon for doing so but not illegal, just like gay bashing is.
I'm not "conflating mean words and murder" but nice strawman attempt. I'm pointing out how stupid it is to wash away all of the struggles and challenges faced by trans people in society and how as a result of those things they become sensitive to any appearance of a threat or discrimination with "grow thicker skin" as if it is our own fault that all these bad things happen to us and we just need to take it. No shit that murder is murder, i didn't say anything to the contrary, but there is definitely legal inequality in many many ways between cis and trans people.

>>8295443
>>8295455
>In 1942, Justice Frank Murphy summarized the case law: "There are certain well-defined and limited classes of speech, the prevention and punishment of which have never been thought to raise a Constitutional problem. These include the lewd and obscene, the profane, the libelous and the insulting or 'fighting' words – those which by their very utterances inflict injury or tend to incite an immediate breach of the peace."
You can be arrested for threatening violence against someone. Obv that is an extreme case but i was pointing out how stupid >>8295334 >>8295443 sounded for saying there should be no legal consequences no matter what, which goes right in the face of historic supreme court jurisprudence.

>>8295543
If hateful speech leads to hateful acts, then those acts should be and are prosecuted. If they don't, then they shouldn't be and (in any non-cucked country) are not.

>>8295557
I'm >>8295334 and >>8295443 and I'll refer you to >>8295560 (also me).

>>8295528
>words =/= violence
>what is verbal abuse
oh wait, let me guess, your armchair opinion on this clearly has more standing than widely accepted clinical psychology definitions.

>>8295584
vi•o•lence (vīˈə-ləns)
n. Physical force exerted for the purpose of violating, damaging, or abusing

Might wanna note that first word there. I'm not saying verbal abuse is good or anything, but by definition it cannot be violence.

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>>8295593
wait....wait for it. I'm sure they will come up with some other definitions like they did for gender.

>>8295609
>like they did for gender.
Remind me again why gender used to mean sex but was still a different word from it?

>>8292815
>Probably cause she wasn't even a man?
ftfy

>>8295618
pre-John Money (Google him). Actually, look up David Reimer too so you can see how absolutely disgusting and insane Money was.

>>8295651
Find me one single example of "gender" being used for sex before it was used for gender.

>>8292767
No, but it is a major dick move.

>>8295672
I know, I'm trying to highlight /pol/'s doublethink.

>>8295699
I can't tell if you're providing evidence for the claim (if so ignore the rest of this), or you're so retarded you think you're providing evidence against it. In case of the latter, the 20th century was the 1900s. Guess who was alive and practiced in the 1900s? That's right: John Money.

>>8295723
Alright. My bad. It's 4chan, so you can never really know if someone is on your side or just painfully not self aware. Sometimes I wish it was more like Tumblr, if only for the fact that you KNOW that the person you're talking to is retarded.

>>8295723
>it says the first usage of gender meaning "sex" comes from the 15h century.
By the 20th century, this meaning was obsolete, and the only formal use of gender was in grammar.

https://www.unc.edu/courses/2006fall/econ/586/001/Readings/Udry_Nature_Gender.pdf

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>>8295740
THAT'S LITERALLY THE POINT OF WHAT WE WERE SAYING ABOUT REDEFINITION. Like, is it painful to be this stupid? Thanks for proving me right (>>8295734) that people on this site are so dense they could collapse on themselves and create a black hole.

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>>8292767
No there's nothing wrong with being an asshole it just makes you an asshole.

This whole thread is retard

>>8295441
>no legal protections or codified rights against abuse and discrimination

Why would there be explicitly spelt out rights for a group that doesn't even exist? There is no such thing as a trans person in the sense that I assume you mean. Wanting to be the opposite sex or gender (they're the same thing, of course) is one thing, and that's fine, but assuming that you are just because "muh feelings" is absurd.

Someone cannot be "born the wrong gender/sex," therefore transgender people, in the sense that Tumblrinas take transgender to mean, do not exist. Since they do not exist, they do not get rights outside the ones that they get just by being humans, citizens of their respective nations, and other, legitimate determinants such as age, etc.

>>8295750
>>8295751
"Gender" was NOT used to mean sex in the 20th century. That usage was historical and archaic.

It was used to mean gender because some word needed to be and grammar was a suitable analogy.

Using it now to refer to sex is obsolete.

>>8295762
IT WAS UNTIL IT WAS CHANGED BY JOHN MONEY IN THE 1960S! God, it's like you lack the cognitive ability to put two and two together.

Us sane people: "The meaning of gender was changed in the 20th century!"
This retard: "Guys, gender and sex aren't the same because the definition was changed in the 20th century, therefore your argument is invalid!"

>>8295761
>trans people don't exist because even if you're trans you're not
Of course not.
>sex and gender are the same thing
Of course not.

>>8295783
We'll just use a new word.
>if I try to force newspeak bullshit to erase philosophical concepts those concepts will stop existing
re, fucking, tarded

>>8295783
>>8295774
You're right in a way, I thought it had never been used to mean sex when really that was just an obsolete archaic usage.

>>8292767
I sexually identify as an attack helicopter. What pronoun is the proper one...hint: NONE OF THEM!

>>8296993
This meme was never funny.

>>8295397
Ooh, la-di-dah, look at you being all superior and unemotional.

If I call a dude 'she' on purpose, or deliberately mess with their name, that's bullying. Of course it's nice if you don't care, but not everyone is able to be indifferent. Some people are harmed by bullying.

You do realize that harming people psychologically is already illegal?

>>8297216
If you are "harmed psychologically" by someone misgendering you, you are the most mentally ill of all us trannies.

>>8297386
What other response would you have to getting misgendered?

>>8297389
Say to them "Hey, you're an asshole." and then move on with your life and find friends.

>>8292767
Someone was mean to me, I think they should serve time in prison.

>>8297386
>>8297413

If you're not phased by people messing with your core identity, that's a pretty good indication of being mentally ill. Impaired empathy and alexithymia are often symptoms of mental illness.

I get where you're coming from, though. I couldn't give two shits about people misgendering me. It's a great advantage if you're able to not care. But our attitude is rare, and often a byproduct of childhood abuse or sociopathy/PTSD/autism/etc. It's not actually what 'a well-balanced person' looks like.

Well-balanced people are hurt by abuse. Their power is in being able to recover.

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>>8297801
>gender is your core identity
wew

>>8297880
Part of it, for a lot of people.

Would you disagree?

I am LGBT so yes, I believe anyone who doesn't automatically use divine a persons proper pronouns souls be put to death, and any reference to them be expunged from the earth.

Something something down with CIS something Safe Space!

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I'm sure most trans people aren't leaving most people wanting for ammo.

If they're trans and you hate them for some reason other than the fact that they're trans, just mention those things if you have to talk shit.

If they're nice to everybody and don't go out of their way to ruin their reputation/preach sjw retarded shit and pick fights with everyone, you might have some unresolved issues of your own.

>>8297935
Yes. Gender is a social construct. When people start selling it as their personal identity, it makes them look autistic.

Anyone obsessed with gender is just complaining about society

>should being an asshole be illegal

no they should be socially ostracized because nobody likes assholes

>>8297985

It would crack me up to see a tiny minority of people attempt to enact any kind of meaningful social ostracization of someone in the majority.

>>8297959
Oh, sure. I agree 199%.

But social constructs don't mean 'fictional'. Race is a social construct too, but it still influences people's reality and therefore identity.

Our roles in society become part of who we are.

The interesting things is: what to do with identities that are outdated? For example, what if you're an eighties-era butch lesbian, but all of your butch friends are now trans men, and suddenly all these cis-presenting genderfluids claim to be 'queer', and 'femme' means 'straight feminine girl' rather than a type of lesbian, etc? Some people actually struggle with this.

Identities are social constructs too, Anon.

A good rule of thumb is if religious people are the only ones who like doing it, it should be a felony, and if religious people are the only ones who don't like doing it, not doing it should be a felony.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

>>8298308
this is hate speech

>>8295427
Yes

>>8298318
no this is patrick

>>8297073
Of course it wasn't. Why else do you think straights shriek approvingly when they see it?

>>8292835
Canada also has different laws concerning hate speech and Bill C-16 is an extension of the pre-existing laws which Canadian society has already deemed acceptable.

It's fine that different countries have different laws as they reflect the different societies which live within them. What works in Canada might not work in the Us and vice versa.

>>8292784
Just reinforcing female privilege. Part of female privilege is having little to no repercussions for actions. A great example is cisfemales calling themselves non-binary and making up fake genders then demanding people use them. men and male body assigned people can not do this because of the very real risk of violence (gender non-conforming AMABs are killed more than any other group) Women can use female privilege to put on a mask of oppression and play trans dress-up with their fake pronouns and then take said mask off when they get board of it (this is especially the case for gender fluid)

>>8298259
>religious
>he means Christian

If a muslim says something like gays deserve death and they promote violence against gays, like the largest mass shooting in US history, this is not hate speech because they are muslims and saying anything against them is hate speech because they need to be protected. Saying a muslim shouldn't kill you is being very disrespectful to their religion of peace.

>>8298603
You got it, desu. I mean, fucking hell, this fucking thread is just filled to the brim with living stereotypes. Will someone be able to break the trend and NOT go on a tirade on why Islam never dindu nuffin wrong and it's all YOUR fault for being intolerant?

Depends if they pass or not.

Misgendering a trans person who doesn't pass shouldn't be illegal. In fact it should be encouraged.

>>8292767
>My preferred pronoun is sjitzkenporbfenbiatzenschloss, pronounced /ɕzʲɨʈ͡ʃ˧˦.kn̩˧.pʱœɾ̥˦.ʙɸɞɲ˨.b̤ʷJi˦˥.æ̰˧.t͡ʃɛ̃˨.ʂklos˨˨˦/, although the tones change for different declensions
>If you mispronounce it even a little, you should go to prison/be fined.
Yeah... no... Too easily exploitable...

>>8298702
>you should go to prison/be fined.
Absolutely not.
You should be killed on sight.

>>8298702
No one with common sense is going to do that.

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>>8298054
>we can witch hunt them on tumblr and force memes within our niche internet communities

>>8298579
>Women can use female privilege to put on a mask of oppression and play trans dress-up with their fake pronouns and then take said mask off when they get board of it (this is especially the case for gender fluid)

just like how trans woman can do the same thing with being female, really activates my almonds

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>>8292767
No because it will just cause people to avoid

For example, if your company gets fined for misgendering people, they just won't hire trans people.

It's worse for trannies.

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>>8293206
>No to fascism
>Yes to Islam

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>>8295441
>brazenly ostracisted and rejected by peers and society and family
Society is fine with trannies, maybe not families though
>Assaulted and murdered at higher rates
W2c stats, also maybe they are murdered by other trans folk?
>No legal protections or codified rights against abuse of discrimination
Wrong, everyone has those rights. You don't get extra ones
>has been happening for decades and barely changed, even in liberal areas
Lel, do you live under a rock? trans people have made great strides even in the last 5 years, even amongst conservative people (thank Blaire White)

>>8298862
1) Trans women do not wear a mask that they can put on and take off. Their identity does not change and hormones/surgery are permanent. Unlike a cis female who may cut her hair and dye it and all of a sudden they are a demisexual nullboy, until their next hair styling appointment.

2) Even if trans women are appropriating or stealing or making a mockery of the female gender (what ever you want to call it that is not the point) because they are not cis female they are not protected from violence. They do not have female privilege. Women are literally the safest and most protected people in society, trans women in contrast are literally the group getting killed at the highest rate.

>>8295584
Verbal abuse is verbal abuse you dense fuck by diminishing violence to the same level of banter or bullying you are actively screwing over people who actually have to deal with violence.

>>8298916
Baathism is not fascism! it's socialism! It's not Islamic either, saddam hussein had a Quran sacrilegiously made written in blood! So Assad must go! The fucker will snuff it!

>>8292767
Yes should be punishable by death (and this includes "accidents" btw)

>>8292767
Of course Lena Dunham likes Amy Shumer. Lena is an SJW genderqueer gendertrender Amy is an unfunny cunt.
>did you molest her too?
Lol. No one cared she did gross things because she was young then and female. Repulsive.

>>8292767
If it can be proved it was on purpose, yes.

>>8302827
So if my prefered pronoun is "I'mmentallyillanddisgusting" than people should be fined or arrested by not saying specifically that instead of him or her?

>>8292767
No
Being rude or getting something wrong because the 400 pound hairy chinned OP of this thread walked into your store and you called them sir by mistake shouldn't be illegal

>>8302791
I'd like to think you're joking, but there are people this legitimately retarded.

Trans woman here. Dont give a shit about pronouns, personally.
If you see me as a woman, thats great. If you see me as a man taking hormones, thats fine too. I dont think theres anything shameful about being a man or a woman, so im not bothered whether people perceive me as a man or a woman.

Ive noticed that the trans women who freak out about their pronouns usually also tend to be huge misandrists who blame men for everything. They want so badly to not be a man because men are horrible or something. I was one of these people for a while. Eventually i was like "whats so bad about being seen as a man? Theres nothing wrong with men." which is what led me to the conclusion i came to.

>>8302854
You can choose between male or female pronouns. Any other choice results in execution.

>should people be forced to conform to my will

this is why normal people hate you deluded snowflakes

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I think the better question is "Should it be legal to kill cissies when they misgender you?"

Kill yourself