Explain

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Because sex is irrelevant.
Your feminized male brain makes you a woman.
Have a dick?
Who cares, for all purposes,
You have a girl brain.

The very you-est part of your entire body is feminized and you DONT understand how you can be called a real woman?

>>8271980
I'm referring to the "male" part.

>>8271919
>males can't be women
gb2/pol/

>>8271987
Yes biologically your brain is shaped to fit a male skull.

But neuroplasticity has allowed it develop as a female's brain would.

>>8271980
>Your feminized male brain makes you a woman.
No her inverted gynephilic orientation makes her a woman.

Is this a Commie-chan thread? Getting vibes here for some reason.

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>>8271980
>>8272011
>Because sex is irrelevant
Sex is the only thing that's relevant
The rest is make believe nonsence that hurts everyone

Don't push this nonsence propaganda. It hurts everyone. Trans will lose control of their bodies because no bio is irrelevant according to your garbage.

The only way to not be a man is to alter your bio. Stop trying to delegitimize that approach. It makes me sick.

>>8271980

"Feminized male brain" is not the same as female brain. There are similarities and differences.

>>8271993
This it what leads to doctors banning people from ffs because they don't 'need it'. What's next, you'll want hormones banned because people can 'be women' without them?

You'll take away what keeps people alive and enable very bad people.

>>8272289
>This it what leads to
It doesn't tho.

>>8271919
Because Trent doesn't have a clue.

>>8271919
Okay so,
is it that your brain is "male" and "feminized" despite prolonged exposure to sex hormones of your natal sex or "female" and "masculinized" by prolonged exposure to the sex hormones of your natal sex? How can you tell? Are you aware that there is a great shift further toward your desired sex post-HRT?

You're not literally neurologically the same as a cis woman, but you're not that far either, given proper care. I mean, cis lesbians have "masculinized" "female" brains.

>>8272060
Is that why pre-HRT gynephilic transwomen respond to the smell of sex "pheromones" in the same way as cis women and gay men? They just willed their brain to respond that way as part of their fetish right? :^)

>>8272310
It does

>>8272390
Source

>>8272385
>You're not literally neurologically the same as a cis woman

Then why should I be alive?

>>8272385
>What is neuroflexability?

>>8272429
Think of your condition as a form of intersexuality. You might not be exactly what you desire to be but you can get really close where it counts. We don't even know the full extent of the impact of dimorphic brain structures on behavior and personality. All things considered, the mental difference between the sexes does not appear to be that drastic in practice. Most of what we think of as feminine or masculine is culturally constructed.

>>8272439
>What is neuroflexability?
Are you implying that having a fetish can rewire your brain to respond differently to sex "pheromones"?

>>8272429
>wanting to be neurologically cisfemale

>>8272011
No, your brain was setup during gestation to be female, but unfortunately your body was setup to be male.

>>8273025
>>8272011
there is no evidence for either theory...

>>8273035
the where they made transgender rats proved hormones early in life set one's base gender. We already knew changing hormone makeup during genital development cause the genitals to become intersex.

>>8271919
He doesn't consider whether women have male brains important for determining their gender. Instead, he mostly defines gender by the social role you occupy.

>>8273076
>People arguing about Trent's opinions
is this the age of Trentism?

>>8273064
none of which is neuroscience...

>>8273079
I'm in a discord with both OP and Trent, and she's angry because she insists that Trent really thinks of her as male, even though he doesn't.

>>8273086
???
I'm not completely on board with the conclusions that poster posted but the experiment they're thinking of is very much neuroscience.
http://www.nature.com/neuro/journal/v18/n5/full/nn.3988.html

>>8273086
>>8273103
Here's a normie article about the study.
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/brain-gender-flexible-believed-study-finds/

>>8273079
yes
>>8273064
transsexualism in animals (often euphemistically referred to as homosexuality in animals, even though that's a different phenomenon best shown in sheep who are gay tops) cannot be perfectly translated to transsexualism in humans in the way you are arguing it exists. transsexual animals are best compared to hsts humans, in that they're obviously behaviourally cross-sex. in homo sapiens, the majority of people with transsexualism are *not* obviously behaviourally cross-sex. therefore, transsexualism that involves neurological 'intersexuality' is not the same condition as most trans people have.

>>8273103
>>8273119
Thanks for giving me the layman's version Anon

I see now that the experiment was neuroscientific but as you say the conclusions other Anons are drawing are not warranted

>>8273133
Trent, you make it all so clear and you are so concise

Please fuck me

>>8273087
I'm not "angry", and Trent sees me as a "male-brained woman", which is almost as bad as being male.

>>8273152
Well, you do have a male brain, you have a male body... it is just biology Anon. It doesn't invalidate you being a transgirl.

>>8273152
He also sees you as a feminine outlier, and believes you think mostly like a woman, despite your brain.

>>8273133
Not the person you're arguing with but that's ignoring several alternative possibilities, including the one we've discussed in your trolley problem thread.

Consider the following: gay men, straight cis women, androphilic pre-HRT MtFs and gynephilic pre-HRT MtFs all respond to sex "pheromones" in a feminine fashion yet only the first three have a feminine grey matter distribution. How does a psychological explanation for non-androphilic MTF transsexuality account for this? Do you believe that a culturally induced fetish turned orientation rewired the brains of the pre-HRT gynephilic MtFs to the point where they respond to the "pheromones" like women and gay men do?

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/05/0510_050510_gayscent.html
https://academic.oup.com/cercor/article/18/8/1900/285954/Male-to-Female-Transsexuals-Show-Sex-Atypical

>>8273152
If you're on HRT you're literally not male-brained anymore even if you were in the past.

>>8273161
Wrong. HRT changes your brain chemistry but it will always have the same male structure.

>>8273159
>including the one we've discussed in your trolley problem thread
i wasn't involved in that thread and didn't want to repost it after deleting, an anon took that out of my hands
regarding pheromones, i've addressed this before. human pheromone research is a particularly persistent pseudoscience; *every single significant finding in the field* fails replication. in properly controlled studies, there *is* no such thing as a 'response to pheremones in a feminine fashion' because there isn't a significant response at all. 'successful' pheremone studies are the result of a failure to blind the study properly in which the relevant groups know what they're engaging in is a pheromone study and (usually subconsciously) react accordingly.
androstedienone is particularly embarassing, given as very few people can smell it at the kind of concentrations people produce in day-to-day life (not how evolution works for a trait as important as pheromones) and the only properly controlled studies that showed women having an arousal effect in response to androstedienone are the ones where there was an actual man present who they were smelling it on, which is a confounder you can't control for.

>>8273165
this is factually untrue, massive structural changes are apparent in only the first few months

>>8273172
isnt that impossible? the skull doesnt transform

>>8273154
>It doesn't invalidate you being a transgirl.

But I don't want to just be a "transgirl" and that's all I'll ever be forever, jesus. Do you guys realize how bleak you make this sound?

>>8273157
>despite your brain

>>8273165
Hormones actually do change the structure of your brain, but to what extent and whether it aids in our quest for legitimacy is up for debate.

http://www.eje-online.org/content/155/suppl_1/S107

>>8273174
there are two implications in this statement:
1. human brains are only sexually dimorphic in size
2. the brain is practically plastered onto the inside of the skull with no ability to change in size
both are false

>>8273133
>>8273159
At this juncture I'd like to clarify something that I think has been holding us back in our past discussions: neurointersexuality can be incomplete, meaning that someone might very well have a brain that is largely like that of their natal sex but "maps" to a body of the non-natal sex. It is possible that there are various "levels" of transsexuality, where different parts of the brain are affected. Mapping this to the general observations about "HSTS"s vs the rest, it could be that "HSTS"s are more thoroughly intersexualized and thus show more behavioral and neurological features typical to their non-natal sex.

>>8273169
>i wasn't involved in that thread and didn't want to repost it after deleting, an anon took that out of my hands
Uh.. didn't you post in the undeleted thread? I'm pretty sure we had a conversation there.

>Pheromones
Can you direct me to any prominent figures that think as you do and have wrote of it? I've seen these studies posted and cited everywhere, including Nature, so at least it looks like they've passed peer review.

>>8273177
>But I don't want to just be a "transgirl" and that's all I'll ever be forever, jesus. Do you guys realize how bleak you make this sound?
What more is there for you to be?

You know that in terms of biological sex you are a male, so with your gender identity being woman, you are clearly a transgirl. What more do you want me to say?

>>8273169
>>8273183
Actually wait nvm I was thinking of our discussion in the "DOES BLANCHARD APPROVE OF BLANCHARDPOSTING?" thread.

>>8273187
I just want to be a woman and nothing else. Besides maybe a gay. And a mom. A gay mom. But you know what I mean.

>>8273205
What does it mean to be a woman, though? You can be a woman for just about every practical day to day purpose, reshaping your body and brain to be very close to the ideal.

>>8273205
Well, I'm sorry, but you're a transwoman. There is no magic spell to make you a ciswoman. Learn to live with it, baby.

>>8273209
Um, how about, no? I don't even necessarily want to be a cis woman, because that specifically refers to people who aren't trans. I'm not looking to NOT be trans, I just want people to think "woman" instead of "transwoman" as the first thing they think of. The fact that you combine the adjective "trans" with "woman" to make the whole thing a noun is very telling. To you, I'm not a woman who's trans, I'm a "transwoman". Which is disgusting.

>>8273273
>calling you "transgirl" causes no problem whatsover
>calling you "transwoman" is disgusting and means I invalidate you

>say you don't to be "just" a trans
>say you dont want to cis either

k whatever lol I can't keep up

>>8273273
This distinction is actually mostly cultural. To some people trans and cis women are just different types of women, while to others they're different, closely related categories. Semantics. If, in practice, they treat you more or less the same what does it matter? If you pass people will literally treat you the same because they can't tell you're not cis.

Words hold meaning in the cultural context in which they are used, and there alone. This argument is not about what the facts on the ground are but how people should react to them.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Language-game_(philosophy)

>>8273286
I had a problem with "transgirl" too, that's why I put it in quotes, do you not remember that? I am more than a "transwoman" or a "transgirl", I am a woman, this isn't difficult to understand.

>>8273289
>If you pass people will literally treat you the same because they can't tell you're not cis.

Well this is ideal. And honestly, if people are going to start thinking of me as a "transwoman" or start talking about how I have a "feminized male brain" because I'm trans, I'll just stop coming out to people, or start actively hiding it from people. I've suffered too long for it to keep controlling my life like this.

>>8273308
>I had a problem with "transgirl" too, that's why I put it in quotes, do you not remember that?
Too subtle for me, thought you put it in quotes just because that was the word I chose for it.

>I am more than a "transwoman" or a "transgirl", I am a woman
You realize I'm only specificying that you are trans because I was pointing out you do in fact have a male brain? That's how our conversation started, biology vs. gender identity...

Why do you not like being referred to as trans anyway? I get that you want to be just as much of a woman as a ciswoman but you know it is different.

>>8273308
>Well this is ideal. And honestly, if people are going to start thinking of me as a "transwoman" or start talking about how I have a "feminized male brain" because I'm trans, I'll just stop coming out to people, or start actively hiding it from people. I've suffered too long for it to keep controlling my life like this.
I can understand that position, and I'm sorry if I've offended you. I think that there's a big gap between the cultural understanding of gender and the scientific understanding of it, and people link the two far too tightly. If it makes sense I make effort to treat trans and cis women the same, since they're essentially the same when it comes to day to day interactions, when it comes to the cultural construct that is gender, but when it comes to theory and biology I can't honestly not make the distinction. Tell me if I'm wrong here but I think the big problem is that people treat you differently based on this knowledge rather than that people think that you're not just the same as a cis woman, right?

>>8273177
>http://www.eje-online.org/content/155/suppl_1/S107

In this study, I notice that the hypothalamus decreases in both mtfs and ftms. Could the fact that they're disabling a part of their natal brain be more important than the gender they're transitioning towards?

>>8273177
>But I don't want to just be a "transgirl" and that's all I'll ever be forever, jesus. Do you guys realize how bleak you make this sound?
Of course we'd all like to be cis but that's not on the menu.

>>8273410
>In this study, I notice that the hypothalamus decreases in both mtfs and ftms
that means you haven't read it
>while androgen treatment in female-to-male subjects increased total brain and hypothalamus volumes towards male proportions

>>8273351
>Tell me if I'm wrong here but I think the big problem is that people treat you differently based on this knowledge rather than that people think that you're not just the same as a cis woman, right?

I don't know. What does it even mean to be "the same" anymore, when I was little I told myself that I would kill myself if I couldn't pass and be the same as a cis woman, but I ended up a yunghon worse than Noelle and I still haven't killed myself, because I'm weak and I think that maybe there's hope. But I guess there's probably not. I just don't know anymore, I don't know what's realistic, I don't know what I want, I guess I just wanted to be a normal girl. But I wasted my life failing at that and now there's nothing left for me.

>>8273035
actually, there is, just not to this extent.

Its not scientifically accurate to describe trans as the opposite sex as a phenotype, but their brain leans heavily towards the female if not completely in some cases.

>>8271919
who is trent?

>>8273969
Blanchardian anon.

>>8273896
I'm sorry I hurt you. I think that there IS hope. Please don't let this rando's idiotic musings bring you down. In the end living as your authentic self is what matters, and when it comes down to it, nitpicking aside, that means living and being seen as a woman. People of a certain cultural leaning know enough to see you that way, and this view is becoming more popular over time. Don't give up. Hang on. Find happiness.

>>8273896
>worse than Noelle
!!!

>>8273987
There are many Blanchardian anons, anon.

>>8274659
He's the one who posts in all lowercase

>>8274623
She has BDD. Actually she's a hot girl.

>>8274659
Trent is the Blanchardian cult leader. Makes more sense?

>>8273133
>not realizing that humans act.

>>8271919
>the file name
tumblr has taken over

>>8272011
>>8273025

t.feminist dance therapy graduates

>>8271919
>feminized male brain
the only thing that's remotely close to "feminized" is the bed nucleus of the stira terminalis which is too small to be observed in living people and has nothing to do with brain activity. also, no transwoman is a "real woman"

>>8282025
Source please? Everybody says there are loads of parts that are feminized or that there's no such thing as male and female brains.

>>8282040
http://www.annelawrence.com/brain-sex_critique.html

>>8282064
That's a blog from a convicted sex offender. He isn't a peer reviewed study. Fake news

>>8282816
>convicted sex offender
[citation needed] on your alternative facts.

>>8282874
Look at why he's banned from anesthesiology. And you're linking non peer reviewed conspiracy theories. It's the very definition of alternate facts.

>>8282920
>his alternative facts have no source
As I thought.

>>8282958
You gave a link to a blog instead of peer reviewed studies. Lawrence isn't allied to practice anesthesiology. Those are facts you can't ignore facts.
You lied, you've got no evidence.

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>>8271919
I'm biological male, but have a brain which is both genders, although my sexual orientation is str8.

>>8282986
>Lawrence isn't allied to practice anesthesiology.
I expect this was real in your mind too just like the sex offender lie was.

>>8282994
Same

>>8282994
That's called being a gay man

>>8283013
Just like how you hons insists blog post in Reddit should be treated as settled science
Yeah you aren't lying at all

>>8283019
But what If I don't like dick?

>>8283033
Man then

>>8283031
>Yeah you aren't lying at all
t. proven liar

>>8283090
http://connection.ebscohost.com/c/editorials/14808314/concerns-about-dr-anne-lawrence

>>8283108
Where's the sex offense conviction?

Liar.

I recommend this blog post made by a professor of neurogenetics at my university

http://www.wiringthebrain.com/2016/01/sex-on-brain-tale-of-two-studies.html