Dear Transwomen

>TERFgen

>>8188435
Let me note that a lot of the transwomen I know don’t need this—in fact, they could write it because they live by it—but a few seem to. So I’m thinking it is my turn to provide transwomen some advice about how to be an ally to cis-women, particularly those of us who are feminist.

>>8188426
okay

>>8188426
Sorry, I couldn't hear what you were saying because the bullshit you were spewing was just too stupid.

However I demand that you further advance transgender's rights or else I will call you a bigot and demand you be executed by the state for your backwardness.

Thanks for listening.

t. trans-woman

Stop labeling as “TERF”s (“trans-exclusionary radical feminists”) every cis-woman who asks for these kinds of things.

>>8188444
>how to be an ally to cis-women
Fuck off, this "ally" LARPing is the most autistic thing that ever came out of this miserable community.

>>8188426
That's 100% fair t b h but I don't know how many of us do either
t. tranny

>>8188435
There are a lot of TERFs on 4chan but I don't think OP said anything TERF-like?

>>8188426
no, see this is bullshit. You don't have to shit on trans folk to help yourself it's not that hard to just, not be massive cunt

>>8188963
no one's shitting on you, you're just hypersensitive because you're in a really vulnerable place. like fresh nerves feeling a cool breeze, it hurts but it isn't meant to. hope you are well

>>8188535
this

>>8188963
you are wrong, being a massive cunt is the resting state of humanity.

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Cis-women are directly responsible. If it weren't for my pedo grandma and negligent mom, I wouldn't have turned out like this. You can shove your feminism straight up your yeast infected cunt.

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>>8188426
Also why do transwomen feel the need to be into women's bathrooms or a better question, why do trans women and their allies not care about the concerns of cis women with the bathroom issue? I believe transwomen are women but I do not believe that they are the same as cis women, I also don't really care if transwomen use the same bathroom that cis women use but I don't really like how transwomen and their allies will threaten cis women with violence or call them a bigot if they express their concerns.

>>8189067
Transwomen are at a significant danger of being assaulted. More in danger than even cis women, which should tell you something. HRT brings about a massive loss of strength, making transwomen far weaker than men. Using a bathroom men can't access is necessary for their safety. If you don't worry about lesbians assaulting other women in bathrooms you shouldn't be worried about transwomen either. IMO the concern that men might fake being trans in order to get in is valid but is not a sufficient justification for completely screwing over transwomen.

>>8188426
Dear cis women

Please don't tell us that we have absolutely no clue of the patriarchy and sexism, as many of us (trans-women) have benefited from it, and after our transition, we have been missing their benefits (esp. if passable).

Transsexual people should be represented by their own, and transsexual movements should have the strength by themselves to stand on their two feet. Note I said transsexual, and not trans or transgendered, since non-transsexual transgendered people are a category of their own, and tumblr should be banned.

Please don't tell us that we are not women, as we are blatantly aware of this fact. And it hurts us deeply, since all we want is to become real women.

Please try to separate feminist values (fight for better social services, esp. child and elderly care, breaking the glass ceiling, and equal pay for EQUAL work and EQUAL experience (note: pay gap due to years of lost experience in unpaid child and/or elderly care does not count)) from tumblr PC bull* "safe spaces" (anti-democratic censorship), "theorem of gender" (transtenders nuking real trans rights), fat pride (promotion of an unhealthy lifestyle) and other terf stupidity.

t. (trans)woman

>>8189067
Passable trans women should have every right to use female-only spaces, as - by the very definition of passability - they are not a bother. Threatening with violence is unfeminine. The person threatening you lost their right to be called a woman and you have had every right to have them removed from a female-only space. I'm sorry you have had this experience.

>>8188997
>my pedo grandma

greentext pls

>we

What the fuck have YOU done to advance anyone's rights other than virtue signal on your twitter

The fucking nerve of some people

>>8189799
>The person threatening you lost their right to be called a woman
If that's the case, the world will run out of women in less than a month.

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>>8188444
>>8188426
>>8188468

>Don’t tell us you know what it is like to be subject to a lifetime of sexism because you may be experiencing sexism since your transition.

So in otherwords sexism is a fraudulent conflict because effeminate/GNC makes suffer far worse discrimination and violence than straight women do in the US.

Fantastic, so you don't need any of your special intrest privileges and I can vote straight ticket republican so they can establish gender equality by taking away stuff you verifiably don't need anymore.

>>8188426
there's no such thing as trans people. trans people are cis

i'm a terf and cis like you - i don't think trans people exist

t. mtf (f)

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>>8188426
>>8189905
>fraudulent conflict
Fraudulent concept

Which is true, you look at the rates of violence, homelessness and unemployment in gnc males and you see it's far worse than what straight women ever have.

Ergo the only sexism still existant in the US targets gnc, mostly males.

That means you really don't need your special privileges quotas and taxpayer subsidies anymore. Why would you need special abuse laws when we are abused and die far more often statisically?

>>8188444
Bitch im not your ally and I don't need allies.

>>8188444
>>8188426
Arent you quoting that lunatic who claimed there was an organized conspiracy by all institutions and lgbt to recruit kids to being lgbt? Really nice source

>>8189779
Who died and made you the arbiter of who is a real trans person and who isn't?
Shit always flows downhill doesn't it?
Try not to segregate our already small group.
signed, (self hating but tries to be humble trans)woman

>>8189779
>the patriarchy and sexism, as many of us (trans-women) have benefited from it
piss off

>>8190223
It's mostly just hons and Bruce Jenner like people like >>8189779 who benefit. Gay and effeminate get treated horribly and do worse off than women

>>8190264
It's cis women who benefit.

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>>8188426
Hey OP cool bait and all, but since you have me on the hook I might as well stay and chat a while.

Trans lesbian here. I don't see myself as impeding anything you are doing. I think it is cool as fuck that cis women are out trying to improve the rights of women IN GENERAL! I understand that I will benefit from it by association.

I really don't see where your issue with trans representation lies. It sounds like you want less trans representation in the spaces you are in. That is fine. However, it isn't about trans vs cis issues. I see it as whatever issues are most pressing/can benefit the people the most are the ones that need to be focused on. Trans people are a minority. That means systems based on how many people are suffering from a thing would largely ignore transwomen. So instead it needs to be looked at in terms of the level of suffering individuals face from a given problem.

The main issue transwomen need help with is being seen as real women. The sexisim we face is different, and also the same. We endure the same bullshit for being women that you do. Sure we haven't faced it our whole lives, but during the time we weren't facing sexism we most likely were repressing and dealing with extreme depression and identity issues (even suicide) that held us back from really enjoying life. If that isn't a an issue on par with being cat called and getting paid less then you are free to think that. The truth is that we go out of the oven and into the frying pan after transition.

What we need is to stop being seen as monsters. We need our experiences to be considered valid. (ie not telling us we don't experience sexisim, as a way to further prove we aren't REAL women)

I want to stand with you not above you despite what you are thinking. I want to help further issues that benefit all women cis/trans. However, I also see a real need to advocate for trans issues because there are so few of us capable of doing it.

>>8189966
> Who died and made you the arbiter of who is a real trans person and who isn't?
For each transtender and agp hon that detransitions, a Republican will snip away your rights for legit hormones (and LGR, and SRS), a Christian parent will send a son/daughter to conversion camp, and your psychiatrist will gatekeep you just one more month.

>>8190264
This. I don't mean to start the oppression olympics, but unpassable trans women are treated like shit, too...

>>8190223
>>8190264
Yep, the older you start, the more partiarchy you enjoy. Since I held a job as male and female, I can definitely tell the difference in male and female pay & career improvement. And that's before childbirth and parental support.

>>8190338
TOP KEK

>>8190356
^this.

What the hell "rights" are you fighting for that are so important, that you have to completely disregard trans woman?

Tell me a group that falls under your jurisdiction to "help" that has a higher suicide rate than trans woman.
Tell me a group that faces more violence on a daily basis than trans woman. Tell me a group that suffers more from depression and mental illness than trans woman.

"Furthering rights" my ass. How fucking unbelievable your nerve and ignorance has to be to post this.

>>8188426
>T. cis-womyn
better yet
>T. most entitled, selfish, narcissistic group of people out there

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>>8188426
Ok BuzzFeed. Make another formal complaint about white males.

Weak bait 0/10 you are a transbian for sure.

>>8191592
It makes perfect sense to me that feminists would be utilitarian in their approach, i.e., that they would seek to work on the kind of oppression that affects large numbers of people, particularly large numbers of people who have been historically oppressed, e.g., women.

>>8191699
When has lgbt not been historically oppressed?

>>8191798
Forget history sometimes. It makes no sense to simply defend one group against another because of history without careful consideration of the details of the power relations today.

The point is to critique and to try to end unjust oppression.

Groups that have been historically marginalized are more likely to include people now suffering from oppression. But being in a group that has been historically marginalized doesn’t mean you’re being oppressed.

Sometimes, even though you belong to such a historically-oppressed group, you become the oppressor.

If you use your group’s history of oppression as a shield to hide behind while you oppress someone else, or worse, as a sword to stab them with, that’s just plain disgusting.

>>8191906
I don't know where you got the idea that lgbt isn't unfairly oppressed.

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>>8188444
>advice about how to be an ally to cis-women
hahaha privileged basic white bitch detected. don't you think that we should be allies to them? not only are they women like us, but they are queer too.

>>8191936
The point of feminism isn’t to promote certain identity groups over other groups.

Always open to the possibility that sometimes today’s power imbalances will not be in the direction we would expect, given history.

I’m thinking it is my turn to provide transwomen some advice about how to be an ally to cis-women, particularly those of us who are feminist.

>>8191954
Am I talking to Kellyanne Conway? It feels like you are talking to someone else but keep (You)ing me???

>>8191951
I am convinced it’s good for feminism when we take those occasional opportunities to extend our work beyond the historically oppressed.

>>8191954
Also I'm not an ally for cis women since that very notion is implying that cis women are on a different team than cis men. And the same could be said for trans people.

I think the real issue here is that you aren't concerned about any rights at all and you just want to win an argument.

>>8191975
feminism is inter-sectional.

sexuality, race, and gender issues on all sides are women's issues.

>>8192004
>I think the real issue here is that you aren't concerned about any rights at all
I've spent my time defending queer people. Transwomen can be allies of feminist cis-women too, with advice like in the OP.

>>8192038
My view is >>8191699

>>8192083
Are you having a conversation with yourself? You aren't reading what either of us are saying.

Save your breath, this thread is garbage.

>>8192083
Your own logic proves that sexism doesn't exist asides the abuse effeminate males suffer.

They have much more in the way of violence wage discrimination and homelessness than straight women.

You should stop getting in the way of helping victims

whats wrong with op? she didn't say transphobia is not real or anything terf

>>8188468
No

>>8192367
Perfect justification to vote GOP and promote equality. Feminists admit that lgbt are oppressed, the only group oppressed in the modern age and they want to use their power to purge lgbt for stealing their oppression. Taking away their special interest privileges and taxpayer monies is a no brainer and the best way to end their purge against lgbt people.

>>8192856
Said that lgbt people should be purged for stealing the limelight. Said that even though facts prove lgbt suffers far worse violence and oppression, they're evil because only women are entitled to attention and aid.

>>8192083
>I've spent my time
arguing that they must be purged from public life for taking attention that you think only straight women are entitled to.

>>8193614
she didn't say that and terfs say a lot worse than op

>>8195543
Please stop talking about yourself op and please stop urging that sexual abuse and violence survivors be purged from any kind of public life because their plight dared take away your straight woman limelight.

It's more proof about how cancerous breeders like you can be. You deserve to lose your taxpayer subsides when there's people who need them fare more.

>>8195790
>urging that sexual abuse and violence survivors be purged from any kind of public life because their plight dared take away your straight woman limelight
Where?

>your taxpayer subsides
What?

>>8190356
100% this. ty

>>8193600
This is scare tactic bs not rooted in reality. This is not how lobbying works. This is not how any of it works. Only ignorant people will fall for this.

This entire thread is bait. This is a public announcement. Please learn what you're talking about and don't take people for their word. Do some research.

>>8196733
Lets be honest though, they give bilions in title X funds for familly planing and those are mostly just used by lower middle class rural breeders who hate lgbt people.

Ditto for planned parrenthood.

If they take away that money, it'll only hurt people who hate us and it wasn't needed anyways and there's people dying from far worse that would love to get just a little bit of those billions.

>>8196733
>This is scare tactic bs not rooted in reality. This is not how lobbying works.
Radical feminists were literally instrumental in getting federal health insurance for transition removed.

Either you're an ignorant moron who couldn't be bothered to do any research to form an opinion or you're a deceptive liar trying to manipulate people with falsehoods.

>>8198442
>Radical feminists were literally instrumental in getting federal health insurance for transition removed.
[citation needed]

>>8198496
Not them but Raymond was one of three "experts" (she had a catholic priest's education so take that qual as you will) appointed by congress to investigate transition.

The biggest irony of all is that the clause banning federal subsidies for the use of buying insurance that provides abortion and allowing insurances to not provide contraception that the GOP is about to pass was almost entirely written from the trans laws that banned any help for that and instructed insurance to not cover that.

Is that Karama or what?

>>8198548
And let's be fair, if there's a law banning any subidies or healthcare deduction from being used to buy trans care when all doctors say that's urgent and there's a bad prognosis without quick treatment.

Then why not do the same to abortion. They're putting a law saying you can't use the subsides for buying abortion plans and so what, pregancy is "natural" so all those people who say that transition is evil because it's unatural should be cheering on.

What hypocrites, they want to ban everything unatural unless it's their special intrest, then we need to pay taxes to buy it for them. Why not ban everyone's body autonomy then if it's so evil.

>>8198548
>was almost entirely written from the trans laws that banned any help for that
If true this is awesome. Suck on that, >>8188426

>>8198599
Congress does similar shit, writes that something is bad and horrible and that federal funds can't ever be used for it and gives private insurance a guideline to not cover.

Breeder care just happened to ironically become their latest target.

>>8198599
Even more than that the radfems actually team up with far-right conservatives to attack trannies.
They're literally willing and enthused to throw other cis women under the bus as long as they can stick it to people that they fear could challenge their social power.

They also team up to attack gay people, saying that gay porn and even just depictions of gay people in the media is obscene and corrupt kids and other stupid morality war bullshit.

>>8198654
True, WOLF has joined up with and been absorbed by the ADF, which also wants to ban abortion and defund PP. Guess what strengthening ADF has earned?

>>8198654
>They're literally willing and enthused to throw other cis women under the bus as long as they can stick it to people that they fear could challenge their social power.
This is what feminism has been from the very start. The campaign for votes for women was only for the upper class women. They were perfectly happy to ignore every social inequality affecting lower class people, men and women, neither of whom got to vote.

>>8198747
Also true, they wanted to help disenfranchise blacks and other nonwhites that they saw as unfit for democracy.

>>8198747
>>8198751
Yeah, there are books and books written by black and other women about how their lives and experiences were invalidated to restrict the meaning of womanhood solely to the white upper-class experience with anything else being invalid.

Their stance towards trannies is basically just an extension of that. Honestly a lot of even most hate directed at trannies is average sexism and trannies are just a more socially acceptable target to project that hate on.

I'm trans, and I'm actually tired of mtfs invading feminist spaces and making it about themselves.

>>8198912
Do you practice what you preach? Are you a femboy?
That's the most important thing of all?

>>8198912
Mtfs shouldn't be allowed to invade public places period. Their aggressive pushiness puts their own selfish desires before everyone else's' safety and well-being.

>>8198978
I'm fine with mtfs being anywhere they like. I just wish they could be cool in feminist spaces, and acknowledge cis women might have a different yet totally valid experience that deserves discussing.

>>8198978
>Their aggressive pushiness puts their own selfish desires before
But that's exactly what you've been doing this whole time? Why project? Shouldn't you fix your own aggressive drives to dominate others first?

>>8199000
>and acknowledge cis women might have a
Yes and while you're at it, I don't want you to talk about sexual abuse and violence when that's something you've never experienced.

You're talking over people, letting your entitlement and narcissism as someone who never had to experience this or hardships trick you into thinking you're an expert on this and everyone else must be silenced. Even though were lucky enough that you never had to suffer.

You're honestly just lording over others

>>8198978
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/27056045/
https://mainweb-v.musc.edu/vawprevention/lesbianrx/factsheet.shtml

You realize there are many studies including a massive long term fed one proving lesbians are aggressive and commit crimes at high rates? Doesn't your aggressive pushiness make you a risk too?

>>8199000
Well I just wish they could be cool in normal
people spaces, and acknowledge normal people might have a different yet totally valid experience that deserves discussing.
Why do you wanna FORCE yourself into spaces you're not wanted?

>>8199023
Trans women get abused by transphobic men, cis women get abused by sexist men. They are sometimes the same people, but not always. Combating sexism is separate from combating transphobia.

>>8199000
I wish cis women acknowledged how privileged they are and his disprivileged trans women are.

>>8199055
>sexist men don't abuse trannies
wew kid that's a big implication to pull out of your ass, maybe take a second to recover.

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>>8188426

>>8199055
And spoiled straight girls and girls raised in doting middle class households don't suffer homlesness, don't suffer sexual abuse(not anywhere at the rate lgbt youth do) never suffered physical abuse.

You're a real girl, you have your lane, that's fine. I don't want you hikejacking the lane abuse survivors do when you've never suffered.

You decided that you're the only one allowed to speak for that when you've been spoiled and have no idea in your life what that's like. That's shamefull.

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>>8199064
The only women who are privileged are cis and pretty, or trans and passing and pretty. That leaves out the majority of women, don't you think? Most women instinctively know this.....you apparently do not though. Now you can either be a woman, or accept your male privilege. Pick one, you don't get both.

>>8199073
Nobody is saying trans people don't experience . I'm just saying trans women and cis women face different obstacles, so it makes sense for them to have separate movements.

>>8199077
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/27056045/
https://mainweb-v.musc.edu/vawprevention/lesbianrx/factsheet.shtml
Doesn't the fact you can engage in an orgy of violent crime and get away with it alot indicate that you have big time male privilege?

>>8199077
>Now you can either be a woman, or accept your male privilege. Pick one, you don't get both.
What the fuck?

>>8199065
Hate to break it to you, but the men who abuse trans women don't view them as women. They think you are a failed man pumped full of estrogen. They are literally homphobic chasers, and the very reason why most trans women naturally recoil at the very idea chasers.

>>8199084
>cis women
Spoiled straight women like you never suffered abuse and violence or poverty. Your separate movement has invaded and hikejacked the plight of abuse survivors when it isn't your problem.

You're already loaded with taxpayer money and special protections, so what does your movement have to worry about nowadays?

You're alot like those Hollywood liberals who use Africans as props. This hypocrisy disgusts me, honestly it makes the right seem better. They're bad too, but at least they're honest and they don't hide all their self serving nonsence by kicking down survivors and exploiting them.

>>8199086
You can't barge into feminist spaces with male privilege rhetoric and expect to be accepted there. Sorry, it just doesn't work out very well.

>>8199084
Were you sexually abused when young, beaten, or starved? If not, you need to shut up about those when you've never experienced those obstacles. Keep them separate from your moment.

>>8199100
Explain why you're statistically the same as violent men http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/27056045/
https://mainweb-v.musc.edu/vawprevention/lesbianrx/factsheet.shtml

You're like the prez and get away with it cause your male privilege.

>>8199099
It's ok for cis women to advocate for things other than trans rights. Cis women have problems in society, and it's ok to talk about them.

Look, I'm an asexual person on LGBT, and it would be like me trying to come in and hijack your movement to make it about asexual issues only. It doesn't work great that way.

>>8199103
You know who else gets beat up and abused? Black people in the South. Should the trans movement encroach on the civil rights movement because it's not inclusive enough towards trans women and the violence they experience? Fuck no.

It's super ok to have separate movements and acknowledge that the challenges we have in life are different because of how we are born.

>>8199118
>It's ok for cis women to advocate for things other than trans rights. Cis women have problems in society, and it's ok to talk about them.
When you say problems, I almost always middle class white women hikejacking sex abuse and physical abuse and starvation when the lot of you are the least statistically likely to suffer that.

Your problems are very minor, so you hike jack and exploit things that you've never suffered for. It's disgusting since I've actually suffered and never got any of the special money or special laws you breeders do.

You came into everyone else's movment and took stuff that wasn't your problem so you could use it as a nice prop. Your movement has become morally bankrupt.

>>8199106
trying to shift the rhetoric away from a advocacy group to focus more on you and your problems is a tactic of oppressors.

>>8199134
*you breeders

Hate language. Goodbye.

>>8199132
It's actually black transwomen that get killed the most. Of course your spoiled breeder women wouldn't ever care of such things. Instead you just walk over and use those problems as props.

You hikejack victims and disrespect them when you never suffered abuse, it's disgusting. You've lost all moral authority once you started encroaching like this.

>>8199140
You barged into victims spaces when you've never suffered and are spoiled, you reduced them to props so you could hikejack their issues.

You are an oppressor of victims.

>>8199145
You've never listened to gay people then? I don't see why straights should cry about this when they've got their own slurs and get showerd with goverment money and benefits.

>>8199145
>breeders
No really, do you realize that's what gays call straghts?

>>8199157
It's possible to be both an oppressor AND a victim. See, you feel victimized in feminist spaces or civil rights spaces because they are not more intersectional. Some people might view you as an oppressor for using male privilege to try and control the narratives and shout over the the voices of cis women. Maybe you are not even aware of how that could come across as oppressive and rude? I am probably not aware of some of the ways you feel oppressed. For me it's not about being more oppressed than someone else, it's about acknowledging that we have different problems in life, that may require separate solutions. I guess that fact can be very triggering for some people.

>>8199201
>sing male privilege to try and control the narratives
Explain?

I do see you using your male privilige to invade subjects like sex abuse and reduce them into a little prop for your own benefit and not a cent of it goes to the victims.

>>8199206
Because you are 100% convinced you know what cis women's lives are like, and if they tell you otherwise, you disregard it...or worse, scoff at t. In other words, you don't REALLY view yourself as a woman, because you regard your OWN views as objective truth, and think cis women are liars. Do you know that calling women liars is a THING? Do you realize that is is an attitude most women learn to expect from MEN? Are you aware that is the reason why most rape goes unreported? ....because women don't want to be called liars by men for speaking their truth.This is a part of what male privileged is: having your own views be viewed as more accurate and objective by society. Now think of all the men in the world that are not good people, and exploit this power. When you enter feminist spaces and tell them they are wrong, and YOU are right, it just feels like another bad man in the world exploiting his power to his exclusive benefit.

>>8199266
This attitude is why mtfs are not well regarded in feminist spaces. You can't remain up on a pedestal and still expect people to welcome you with open arms. That's why I'm telling you: you can be a woman, or have male privilege. Not both.

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>>8188426
Cis women are fucking reddit tier meme status. If you're actually a cis woman, please kill yourself.

>>8199266
>Are you aware that is the reason why most rape goes unreported?
No, the reason most rape goes unreported is because feminists shame men for being raped by women and deny it can happen.

>>8199094
>the men who abuse trans women don't view them as women
Unless they don't realise they're trans. You think trans women never get cat-called or harassed by drunk idiots in bars?
That's even one of the stereotypical encounters leading to assault or murder of trannies, some guy hits on them in a bar then finds out they're trans and decides blood must be spilt to defend their honour and masculinity.

It's also just a weird asspull claim to make that NO ONE who has ever abused a trans person sees them as a woman. I mean just statistically there must be at least one case of some abusive partner or someone seeing a trans persona as the gender they identify as but still abusing them for any of the usual reasons people are abusive.
I almost hope you're just a shitty troll and aren't actually this stupidly willfully ignorant of the world around you.

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>>8199266
>Because you are 100% convinced you know what cis women's lives are like
Except I don't, and I've already said I'm not a real girl and that I'd never be able to bring myself to see myself as one. I avoid your groups and women's spaces. I'll use short haired boymode till I absolutely fail it and then transition will simply be out of expediency.
>an attitude most women learn to expect from MEN? Are you aware that is the reason why most rape goes unreported
You're doing that again, claiming your own greed is the only thing that matters.
You never suffered sexual abuse and yet you hikejack it for your own personal gain, it's disgusting. It's the same as those hypothetical men you talked about
>>8199291
Except the only one who's demonstrated that atitude here has been you with your abuse of abuse survivors.
>>8199266
>rape
I don't involve myself in your "feminist" spaces, your movement has become a fraud. You've never experienced any hardship, so you hikejack others suffering for your own greed.

Your movment is corrupt, it's just as bad as the alt right, and the fact the GOP has it defeated and is about to destroy and defund it's organisations is probably for the best.


Your movement was too corrupt to help anything but it's own greed. I'm sure whatever replacement arises from the left won't be slave to the corruption and greed that rotted you out.

>>8199298
Women don't shame men for being raped NEARLY as much as men shame other men for being raped. Men shame other men by calling them "pussies" or "fags" or "cucks," not women. Also, men are much more likely to be sexually assaulted by other men, just think about how many people are raped in jail! If men really cared about sexual assault of other men, they would be funding rape crisis centers for male victims of sexual assault. No though, they would rather spend their time and resources on tearing down women's organizations instead. Maximum effectiveness, for sure. I'm sorry you feel like a victim, this much is clear to me, but you really have to learn to pick your battles.

>>8199266
>>8199291
I find it funny that the only people coming in here and lording over others are you guys and that you couldn't help but hikejack stuff the underclass sufers from like rape when you've got no experience.

You are your men!

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>>8199299
Wait, what? I thought ALL hot women had female privilege and an easy life? Now you are saying being hot is a disadvantage for some woman? Tell me more, please.

>>8199343
I'm not them but
You hikejacked sex abuse survivors, people who were victimized as kids to use them as an tool for your corrupt version of "feminism".

You are the men from your example. You are the only people to talk over others when you've never experienced this stuff. This proves you've simply become a self serving group that leaches off victims. You deserve your self inflicted defeat so that something free from this rot can rise from the ashes.

>>8199358
"You hikejacked sex abuse survivors"

How?

>>8199343
>If men really cared about sexual assault of other men, they would be funding rape crisis centers for male victims of sexual assault. No though, they would rather spend their time and resources on tearing down women's organizations instead.
Men provide most of the funding to women's organizations. Men are biased towards women just like women are.

>>8199357
Are you assuming I'm some other anon or just shitposting so you can ignore being called out on your bullshit?

>>8199368
You talk about rape and used it as your trump card for your argument when you never suffered from it and your version of feminism does nothing to help and simply waves them around as cheap props to enrich themselves. I've done what you say is right, I stay away from you and I understand I will never be like you. But you can't extend this basic courtesy to survivors.

You've become morally bankrupt, it's the same as religions who leach money off their poor followers and then just spend it all on buying their leaders luxuries.

You aren't any different from trump or the alt right, you even have the same contempt for rape sufferers. How can you ever be a practical opposition when you're morally just as rotten.

Your movement is obviously falling apart and in large part it's from your own sins. I hope what rises in it's place is something I could take pride in.

>>8199383
Ok, but it's not feminist's problem that men don't care about other men who are victims of sexual assault. It's the fault of a society that has rigid gender roles and thinks men should just "tough it out" and deal with their problems alone. Women didn't create these expectations, men did.

>>8199396
I don't really know what you are talking about. I think it's horrible and inexcusable that anyone would be raped, trans or not.

>>8199408
Why are you still speaking for sex abuse and pushing your own views as objective truth when you have no experience of that. This is the oppression you spoke of.

>>8199408
>women didn't create female privilege

>>8199426
They didn't.

>>8199418
And you use us only as convenient tools and props for your arguments like in >>8199266 or to leach huge amounts of money for your causes and asides from that care not at all for any of us and not a cent of that will ever go to help us.

You can't realize your own hypocrisy, that you do what you complain about. That's why I'll always avoid your self serving group that hikejacks others for it's corrupt self enriching ways.

I'll just hold off, wait for it and the rest of its institutions to finish their collapse and then try and help the new wave that rises to take it's place.

>>8199297
Straight Cis women are the worst

>>8199421
What do you actually want? What is your end goal? Do you want advocacy and healing, or do you just want to destroy a women's movement because you are angry that you are not female?

>>8199452
>because you are angry that you are not female
Not her but punishing women for wanting to keep their entitlements out of the hands of natal males seems fair to me.

>>8199439
saying the same thing over and over using similar language in different posts doesn't make you right.

And of course the women's movement is self serving, that is by definition what movements are for.,

>>8199444
yeah i don't think i hate anybody on earth more than i hate straight cis women

>>8199467
than you are a typical man.

>>8199432
Are you really such a hypocrite that you can't see the point they were making?

>>8199452
>destroy a women's movement
It's not a women's movement even. It's just a narrow group dominated by well off straight women who might talk about other women. Or sex abuse survivors or others, but they only use them to get money and attention. It's degenerated into a corrupt and hypocritical oligarchy that won't help the majority of women even.

If PP and the other groups are defeated, it's no great loss for women and minorities. Your "women's movement" had become too self contradictory with words and deeds, to dominated by a small well off and self enriching clique to ever be an effective mass movement.

I think things are cyclical, and once corrupt things like your movment and the Dem leadership die, something much better and devoted to helping people will arise from the ashes.

You've fallen to the point where you'll hurt abuse survivors by using them as a little quip for your argument or fundraising and then just leave them to rot. It isn't a movement anymore, just a pyramid scheme.

I want rebirth

>>8199465
You hikejacked sex abuse victims as a cheap argument despite not being one. You use them for your own self enrichment.

Your movement isn't even serving women, it's just serving yourself and a handfull of spoiled people, It's degenerated into pyramid scheme that paraities off most women and minorities for a small handfull's gain. It's a mockery of what it claims to be.

>>8199465
So much for feminism wanting men to be liberated too.

>>8199488
Well it sounds like it's not a good for you, and that's OK. Believe it or not, feminism does benefit some people. It should continue to exist for them. I hope you can find the advocacy and support you seek in the LGBT community. It seems like they would understand your issues better anyway. If you want to start a trans girls sexual assault organization, I would be happy to support it.

>>8199512
>feminism does benefit some people.
Entitled women who want to leech off men and actually successful women.

>>8199508
Society is created for and by men. Feminism seeks to smash the patriarchy, which in a round about way DOES liberate men. However, feminism is not a men's movement, so advocating for men's issues is not on the forefront of the feminist agenda.

>>8199471
thanks i guess i won't kms tonight then
but you're still a stupid bitch and i wish none of you would talk ever

>>8199530
Why would you say that? You're wrong and making assumptions again. Please stop.

>>8199545
>You're wrong
[citation needed]

>>8199512
I'm not >>8199530 and I'm honestly tired and don't want to deal with this stuff and it isn't just because all the groups are hopelessly corrupt.

I can't even think of myself as anything but a psychotic castrated boy. I'm just tired with all this stuff.

>>8199559
>>8199545
It is self enriching though, the only people it really helps and who ever have any control are those well off women who you always see on tv and their conferences and stuff. They don't care about anyone outside their elite bubble and they'll never move to help the suffering of others.

>>8199554
Women were repressed before feminism. Do you really want the world to go back to that? I mean, if you were socialized male, that probably doesn't mean much to you at all. If you are born female, it means everything.The women's movement gained women the right to vote. If it wasn't for white feminists, black women probably would not have gained the right to vote at all. So yes, i'm willing to admit there is an element of intersectionallity there.

>>8199559
Well if that's how you view yourself, that's too bad. I view trans women as real women, I just think their struggles are different than cis women.

>>8199559
>I can't even think of myself as anything but a psychotic castrated boy.

idk if you're mtf or ftm but i feel this 100%. no matter what i do, i'll always be pretty much a eunuch and a mutant. doing what i do isn't going to make me what my mom's uterus or god couldn't. it just makes a person want to be dead a little less. i'm tired, too.

>>8199582
>I mean, if you were socialized male, that probably doesn't mean much to you at all. If you are born female, it means everything.
Please stop denying the oppression men and trans women face for being born male.

>>8199582
Not them but I was violated, and besides that beaten almost daily. Was that you meant by male socialization or did you mean something else. It seems more like how many animals are socialized.

You know first and second wave feminists were opposed to blacks having the right to vote.

So your woman's movement wasn't intersectional unless you consider being white supremacist allies intersectional.

Honestly it sounds worse all the time.

>>8199661
They only care about women getting raped >>8199266 >>8199343 >>8199408

>>8199630
I'm not really convinced you understand the point of the women's movement. You are so angry about being trans and not feeling included, you have missed the entire point.

A big part of the women's movement has to do with not having agency over one's body or fertility. You have to understand that up until the 1970s, women had no control over their fertility. Have sex once, and you might as well accept motherhood.Fuck up and sleep with the wrong person once, and that's it. No career, nothing. Kiss it goodbye,dreams and everything. You could have been knocked up by the biggest loser ever, who will completely ditch you once the kid is born. (and keep in mind there is also social and legal pressure to not have an abortion in many areas.)Really think about that and how that could effect someone psychologically. Do you realize it was only 47 years ago? If you don't have that kind of agency over your body, sex and sexuality are a really risky game. There are a lot of social taboos and stereotypes ingrained in society to police cis women's fertility, and to keep them in line. I know this is going to sound mean, and I am not trying to be a bitch, but as a woman without a uterus, this doesn't really apply to you. It actually applies more to transmen than mtfs, even though it's a "woman's movement"

>>8188426
"Dear X..." is the lowest form of communication,

>>8199694
That's not true at all. Please don't put words in my mouth.

>>8199705
Your posts speak for themselves.

>>8199697
Not them but most of your groups opposed body autonomy and wanted to force everything that was unnatural from existence. That meant banning other people body autonomy. Lgbt people were utterly destroyed.

They probably only cared of their personal wellbeing so excerpted abortion from their prohibition against unatural stuff for abortion and wrote with the help of Nixon laws like title x which give money mostly only to middle class white women and their husbands for family planning.

Lgbt needs body autonomy just as much, we can not exist without it, but you've tried to take it away from us, even wrote reports for congress for that end.

It's a strange irony that the republicans copied your fake safety arguments and teleological arguments to now try and kill Pp and subsidies for buying abortion for the ACA. You're being treated the same way your victims were.
>>8199694
They don't care about women getting raped or anyone asides from using them as puppets for arguments or fund raising.

>>8199697
It's funny because we don't have any agency over our body but it needs medical care and needs to get it early. You've also tried to take away Trans agency over their bodies and medical acess.

>>8199697
oh look a straight cis woman who constantly needs to be at the center of every discussion, clawing desperately for every scrap of oppression she can claim because she can't tolerate not being special.
i bet you're really going to get a lot of trannies to listen to this retarded bullshit while you denigrate and de-legitimize transwomen for not sharing your filthy organs and include transmen against their will based on shit inside them that makes them want to die.

>>8199697
>not having agency over one's body
Circumcision.

>Fuck up and sleep with the wrong person once, and that's it. No career, nothing. Kiss it goodbye,dreams and everything. You could have been knocked up by the biggest loser ever, who will completely ditch you
Child support.

>>8199697
I think they're gay not trans but you realize the agency thing is even more critical for trans give how controlled expensive and Iliberal their healthcare is, even relative to yours. Imagine how much you'd protest if you had to pay thousands out of pocket and wait months to get a psych approval for your abortion.

And if people don't get blockers in adolescence they'll end up fucked up for life and get a 40x elevated mortality over the ones who did. What if they banned anyone under 18 from getting abortions or contraception. It needs thousands and thousands in psych screenings and liberal parents who have to pay and approve for just reversible gnrh blockers. What if they did the same for abortion and priced it out for nearly all teens except those with the most wealthy and liberal parents?

Being trans and getting mad that the women's movement exists, is like being mad that gynecologists exist because you were born with a penis. Sorry, other people have different issues than you.

>>8199808
It's not a women's movement when you do nothing but back stab rape survivors. Use them as a little prop for your argument and then leave them to rot. When you grift women and use they money only for your luxuries.

There's no movement, just a fraudulent front that preys on most women and minorities.

>>8199808
No, it's like being black and getting mad the KKK exist.

>>8199761
The women's movement thinks trans men should not have to bear children against their will. Ironically, many trans men are feminists and many mtfs are MRAs. The women's movement is less about gender, and more about female fertillity and who gets to control it.

>>8199582
>you blacks owe your right to vote to us elite white women so you'd better grovel and do whatever we say!

>>8199827
>and who gets forced to pay for it.
FTFY

>>8199827
Except you're against body autonomy so that makes no sense. wOLf even joined the prolife movement.

It's probably just like when you abused rape survivors by using them as props and talking over them when you don't care about them at all.

Nothing you say is honest.

>>8199697
>you're just an angry aggressive man and don't understand it's about not having agency over one's body
>that's why we team up with conservatives to try to not let others have agency over their bodies

>>8199751
The lack of agency of agency females have over their fertility is a feminist issue.

The lack of agency mtfs have over their ability to transition is an LGBT issue.

I've been trying to say it 1000 different ways in this thread: they are really not the same issue at all. They are not even close to the same issue.

>>8199839
It's body autonomy. Autonomy over reproductive issues no less. Body autonomy is universal and you want to take it away.

>>8199830
Men did nothing to help black women.

>>8199839
And you have far more agency, officially recognized rights with no wait and billions in taxpayer subsides used mostly by the wealthy. You're very privileged in body autonomy.

>>8199808
>you're just ANGRY that women have a movement
>not because we try to exclude mtfs and ethnic and poor women and team up with conservative culture crusades to battle against trans health coverage and depictions of trannies and gay people in the media

>>8199851
>>8199830
First wave feminists explicitly campaigned to ban blacks from voting and for segregation

Second wave purged and excluded blacks from its rank. "Feminism" was white nationalist

ITT b8ers b8ing b8ers

>>8199827
The women's movement thinks trans men should not be allowed to transition and they're just stupid misguided girls that have been tricked by the patriarchy into hating their womanness.
Hypocrisy and bigotry through and through.

>>8199839
t. ignored every post that calls him/her out

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>>8199856

>>8199870
Yeah but the problem is that 99% of the posters in this thread are the first guy telling each other how retarded they are.

>>8199874
More like everyone is calling one poster, probably op, retarded and that poster just keeps talking past them and ignoring all the posts that call them out on their bs like >>8199855

>>8199418
I know what they are talking about. I am a survivor of child hood sexual abuse, raped for years by my step father, allowed to continue by my own mother with her knowledge. Later as a male young one i was raped at a gay bar as well. Later I was raped by my ex gf while i was passed out.

Either way, every experience i received in counseling was corrupted by feminism, im not anti feminist so it never bugged me, but i noticed it one of the strangest things was them telling me to see my mother as a victim as well, i mean she wasnt raped, she enabled rape for her own selfish gain, but they spun someshit about culture etc and tried to convince me to forgive her, basically every counselor ive had.

Or if i go to a support group, my experience is discounted as it turns into a talk of rape culture rather than people talking out their personal issues in life. Always assumed im just a bf there to show support and show how understanding i am.

Either way i gave up that, stopped seeing counselors and going to support groups because of that. I dont try to say my experience is the same as women now that ive transitioned, but i have noticed women seem to have a need to bring up how i cant understand the suffering of a women life, when i dont even bring it up like out of nowhere during a general conversation.

>>8199697
So are sterile cis women not allowed to be part of the "movement"?

>>8188426
Just shut up and fall in line sweetie we'll work on your rights after we stop barring you from our toilets :)

>>8199266
But aren't you 100% convinced that you know what trans women's lives are like? You make claims about how we had all this male privilege, but you've never experienced male privilege or been denied it.(that way many of us were while growing up)

>>8199697
>A big part of the women's movement has to do with not having agency over one's body or fertility

But....trans people are very often denied agency over their own bodies. Kids under 18 can get BC without a prescription now over the counter. Trans people under 18 have to jump through hoops in order to get hormonal treatment and/or puberty blockers.
BC pills have killed tons of women, and there has been very minimal risk involved with puberty blockers (0 deaths last i checked), and I'm not sure the rate of death for trans women/girls on hormones but it seems less than the number of girls who have literally died from hormonal BC

>>8188426
Back to tumblr

>>8199895
That's horrifying. Those budget cuts will only decimate groups that never did anything but enrich their elite leadership rather than ever help their victims.

I hope the replacement is good

>>8201070
>Those budget cuts will only decimate groups that never did anything but enrich their elite leadership rather than ever help their victims.
QFT

>>8200088
Pretty much any definition of woomanhood that they try to come up with to exclude trannies inevitability excludes others that they don't mean to and then it's either just back to the drawing board for the next desperate attack or a pathetic plee that "that doesn't count!"

There's also usually a heavy dose of ironic sexism involved.

>>8205961
They should just do it the clg method and say openly "no trannies allowed"

>>8199077
ugly cis girl here, can confirm.

nobody cares about you if you aren't pretty, strangers, acquaintances, and friends. the treatment i receive compared to my pretty friends is quite honestly depressing

>>8209411
You are privileged enough to be blind to the privilege you get over any man, regardless of the attractiveness of either of you.

>>8208187
Yeah but then that alienates the sjws and such that they try to manipulate for political power.

>>8209460
>ugly women
>privileged

nice b8 m8 I couldn't w8 to r8 it .8 outta 888888

in other words go fuck yourself TERF I will not be a CIS ALLY ever, never ever ever ever. I will be a feminist, an inclusive one, where I don't feel the need to say which women have it worst, trans or cis.

Both experience extreme hardships and discriminations and both can suck. If you fail to see that then YA BETTA CHECK your CIS PRIVILEGE and I am not joking you stupid TERF cunt.

>>8218592
op said she isn't a TERF >>8188468

>>8218604
And I'm saying I'm an 8 legged hairy spider who's typing away on 4chan, and don't you dare call me human because I already said I'm not a human.

she's a bigot who wants to get away with being a bigot. "pls dont call me what i obviously am guys thx"

fucking TERF cunt

>>8218639
what did she actually say that's bigoted though? maybe i just don't know how to spot TERFs

>>8218779
She mocked sex abuse survivors and used them as some sort of cheap pawn for an argument. A moral low if I've ever seen one.

>>8218913
wait where

>>8218922
Talked about it nonstop and talked over people who actually were abused.
Also said DMAB individuals can't be abused.

>cis women
>even once

>>8215155
this guy said you, you should really leave your house more often if you think an ugly girl gets any privilege. women are based solely on looks in our society

how often do you see an ugly dude with an alright chick? pretty often

the other way around? almost never

>>8218954
>DMAB individuals can't be abused

I mean...
You can't rape the willing!
But clearly she is just angry and hates men.
Why give these people your attention?

For a mtf, cismale misogyny is an affirmation of their new feminine identity. It is in the interest of mtf to preserve traditional gender roles.

>>8227557
>you should really leave your house more often if you think an ugly girl gets any privilege.
Name ONE biased feminist law that stops applying to women who are ugly.

>>8231140
>tfw get triggered by anti-male sexism but fap to anti-female

>>8188426
Feminism can't work on any other issues than trans issues, otherwise you cannot consider feminism anything other than a hate group, like the KKK.

That damage feminism did to trans people is just too great to let it go, there's a lot of ground to make up for that damage.
Just like the KKK would have to put in a lot of work to further blacks and LGBT peoples rights before they can be considered anything other than a hate group.

>>8235997
What damage did feminism do? I know about TERFs and Raymond, but they didn't get to choose trans healthcare rules or anything like that.

>>8188426
Lol cis women are the most privileged group around their pleds for more rights are ridiculous its merely entitlement issues from years of getting their way everytime.

The only issue cis women have is abortion and that has to do with religion and the rights of the human inside of them that makes it a blurred line.

Also why are terf allies always such ugly agp deluded self haters? >>8235224

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Alright, girls. Daddy's home, it's time to stop clucking like a bunch of hens and get back in the kitchen.

>>8236004
They were the ones who pushed for it, so it was their doing, and spread the social stigma.

>>8188426

>Real women keep making a distinction between Cis and Trans


Even your allies are your enemies. Trans, it is time to embrace the pain of dysphoria and live as the man you are.