Is this a true fact?

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Nice sources there family. Wanna sauce me up on the fucking definition of mental illness while you're at it? Schizophrenia isn't a mental illness! It's just people being mean to scizos! Why does this thing live?

>>8093319
wow honestly confirmed not trans tibby eighch

>>8093319
All facts are true, but this isn't a fact. It's a statement from an idiot who believes that because she didn't have dysphoria, it doesn't hurt anyone.

It's the literal definition of an opinion (and a shitty stupid opinion at that).

>>8093332
Schizophrenia causes suffering. Even when I'm treated well by others I still suffer. The real question is, would trans people still suffer if they were fully accepted? I think so.

>dysphoria
>not suffering

I guess this is the opinion you'd expect to come from a ""trans"" person who has no interest in hrt

>>8093358
As an MtF, I honestly really think I wouldn't suffer almost anything at all if no one had a problem with it and I could live my life totally as a girl.

I don't know if the one in OP's pic is an actual fact or not in general, but I'm sure it is for me.

>>8093319
This literally proves that she isn't trans, otherwise she's know what dysphoria is.

>>8093420
You mean if you just had to ask/present female and then everyone would treat you like a cis girl and have the exact same expectations of you?

Would guys need to be attracted to you like a cis girl too?

Would you still need to take hrt?

>>8093319
I hate pic related, fuck that jackass and their stupid face REEEEEEE

>>8093319
No.

It's not a mental illness because it's not a mental illness.
It's a neurological disorder, most likely.

>>8093319
>Is this a true fact?
Would a face like that lie? :^)

>>8093358
>The real question is, would trans people still suffer if they were fully accepted? I think so.
The age-long debate.
If I killed someone if it was legal, would I still feel guilty?

Thing is, you really have to question *why* you feel dysphoria. Were you born like it? Maybe. But if you were, your brain would be born to function in the body it was born with. So then you might mutilate your genitals and be fine but what about all the bits that were meant to function in your original body? We don't know yet; there aren't enough transexuals. But there are plenty who aren't fixed by their surgery, for whatever reason, and kill themselves.

>>8093319
You inherently have to suffer to realize you are trans in the first place right?
Depression/anxiety from dysphoria etc., then you realize you are trans
So it is a mental illness in that respect

>>8093442
>You mean if you just had to ask/present female and then everyone would treat you like a cis girl and have the exact same expectations of you?
Yes, pretty much. I would prefer them not realizing I'm trans but in the case they find out about it, to just accept it and treat me the same.

>Would guys need to be attracted to you like a cis girl too?
No, I don't think so. I want to be as attractive as a cis girl, but if they know I'm trans and it's not their thing, it's completely fine for them to not be attracted. I just want to be accepted.

>Would you still need to take hrt?
Yeah, as I said, my own percepcion of my image is very important to me.
Though maybe if we all lived in this utopic hypothesis we wouldn't think much of it.

>>8093332
Are you retarded or just pretending?

>>8093495
lil babbies can present as female if their parents let them, then transition at the start of puberty

all you'd need is to get em to present male once or twice, see if they had a dysphoric response, and if so it's straight on the meddds

never really suffer then

>>8093319
No.
part of it is, though.

>>8093319
Can you say tautology?
Anyways, yes, that does make sense from the perspective of the current "spirit" of abnormal psychology. They made the the same argument when they discarded sadomasochism and "homophillia"
I disagree with this trend because it will preclude any effort to palliate gender dysphoria other than helping people transition. Ignoring the biology of it would be an intellectual disgrace. the DSM is a sham though, it just creates diagnostic trends and complicates research into etiology of psychopathologies.
Is the concept of mental illness helpful?

>>8093358
They want to mutilate their physically healthy bodies, so what do you think?

If this fugly idiot were the first person to tell me that you need food to stay alive, I'd consider it questionable at best.

>>8093520
Would you need to pass? Are you exclusively straight?

>>8093861
>Would you need to pass?
I don't think I'd NEED to pass perfectly to be happy in that hypothetical case, but I'd certainly work hard for it, no doubt.

>Are you exclusively straight?
Yes, I like men.

>>8093867
Why would you want to pass in that situation? What if it was easier to be pretty and attractive to men without passing, perhaps in some femboy fashion way, while still being treated as a girl?

You've got an unusual outlook considering most trans people say their dysphoria is physical and nothing to do with social things. The "would you be trans on a desert island" question.

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>>8093910
Well, to be honest those questions are pretty hard because I'm just answering as how I feel in my current situation in life and what my dysphoria wants me to do. It's difficult to know what I would want in those specific cases.

>What if it was easier to be pretty and attractive to men without passing, perhaps in some femboy fashion way, while still being treated as a girl?
Well, it's not like I want to pass just to attract guys, I do it for my own mental well being.

If in our little hypothesis we are imagining I magically get transported to this utopia while retaining all my memories, I'd definitely want to pass.
But if the situation is that I actually be reborn in that world that is so accepting of trans people, I have no idea what would be the answer because we are still not sure if the "passing" concept for trans is innate or a result of wanting to be accepted by blending in.

>The "would you be trans on a desert island" question.
That one was always impossible for me to answer. My wild guess would be that I would still be trans but I would never actually realize it and just act naturally submissive.

>>8093319
More or less. Being trans is really fucking weird.

>>8093985
I see. By the way I feel a bit like you, that in different circumstances my dysphoria could be much less or maybe none at all.

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>>8094012
I also have the very VERY constroversial opinion as an MtF in that I think I wouldn't even have the desire to be a biological girl as long as I pass 100% perfectly no questions asked and in case of someone knowing, to just accept me.

In that situation I don't even understand why I would want to become a biological girl if everything is fine anyway.

But revealing that kind of mindset usually comes with "LOL THEN UR NOT REAL TRANSGIRL"

>>8094040
Wow, that's even further than I feel myself, although I do think that would reduce my dysphoria to very little and I wouldn't be shocked if I was wrong and it did go away entirely.

One reason to still want to be a biological girl is to have sex as a girl.

How did you come to have these controversial and unusual opinions?

Even if everyone in the world treated trans individuals well, it wouldn't change the fact the trans people feel that they're the wrong gender and in the wrong body.

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>>8093319
Regardless of the trans being a mental issue thing, just because something doesn't cause suffering doesn't mean it isn't a mental illness. Someone could have Hypomania and not suffer more than if they didn't, that doesn't mean Hypomania isn't a mental illness.
Not only that, but more trans people probably experience suffering from being trans than people with Hypomania experience from Hypomania. Actually, because pretty much all Trans people feel Dysphoria, there's probably more variation in people with Hypomania.
Plus, if we're not counting suffering from anything that isn't the disorder itself, Autism could fall under the "not a mental illness" category, since a lot of people would probably be fine if it wasn't for being bad in social situations (Aka, caused by other people). This could also work for ADHD, and really any mental illness that doesn't Directly cause Anxiety, Sadness, Anger, ect without outside forces (AKA most of them)

If anything, the argument this person makes just helped point out the similarities between being trans and having a mental illness.

>>8094077
I don't think I ever "came" to have these opinions, it's just how I always felt. I had the desire to become a girl to live as a girl, not become a girl for the sole purpose of becoming a girl.
And if I can live as a girl then I have no reason to be a biological one. Unless I can't pass of course.

>>8094089
Two trans people have just been saying it would change things, so you're denying our experiences and personal understandings of ourselves.

>>8094174
What are the parts of living as a girl that you want?

You're straight but is there some physical but nonsexual/nonromantic attraction to women that makes you want to look like one?

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>>8093319
How are we supposed to get insurance to pay for our SRS if it isn't classified as a mental disorder?
They don't cover elective procedures.
>not playing 5D chess

>>8094215
>What are the parts of living as a girl that you want?
Mostly just people to refer to me as "she" and being able to be feminine and look natural while doing so. I just want to feel like myself, and being feminine while looking like a guy feels wrong and when I look at me I just think "this isn't who I am".
>some physical but nonsexual/nonromantic attraction to women that makes you want to look like one?
You got me there, I have no idea how to answer this one. It's definitely nonsexual and nonromantic as your said, though.
It is a mystery.

>>8094222
This is a good point lol

>>8094261
>Mostly just people to refer to me as "she" and being able to be feminine and look natural while doing so.
How feminine are you? What age did you first start feeling it wasn't right to look like a guy while acting how you naturally did? Do you get on better with girls or guys?

>You got me there, I have no idea how to answer this one.
Hm. Maybe it's kind of like a fashion sense, aesthetically pleasing to see in the mirror?

>>8094299
I realized when I was like 8, lol. I get better with guys than with girls, all the way. But it's just because of a matter of interests, I am very into videogames, competitive games, card games and such, and I never knew a girl who shared interests with me in real life except in TCG locals.

>Hm. Maybe it's kind of like a fashion sense, aesthetically pleasing to see in the mirror?
I doubt it, as I do find men very aesthetically pleasing, maybe even more than girls. But it's just not who I am.

>>8094338
If your interests are commonly male, what is the femininity you felt from 8 up?

This is a mystery. Is it an appeal to the idea of being in a heterosexual couple, rather than a gay couple, while combined with liking guys means you have to be the other partner?

>>8094360
Oh, no, not at all. I literally have a fetish for homosexuality and that's why I am a BIG fan of both yuri and yaoi in general and I find heterosexual couples in fiction really boring because of this.

So, haha, it's the complete opposite I'm actually turning myself away from my own fantasy because of my dysphoria.

>>8094379
This gets more and more bizarre. You like yaoi despite wanting to be with men as a girl and yuri despite not being attracted to girls!

Human sexuality seems unlimited in its uniqueness.

>>8094402
I think it's a pretty convincing situation to demonstrate that gender and sexual orientation are absolutely not linked at all.

>>8094410
Personally I think it varies from individual to individual. For me they feel partly linked, in the way I asked you about >>8094360

>>8094430
Hm, perhaps. It's just hard for me to think like that since my situation is so different.

What's your situation like for you to feel they are partly linked?

>>8094452
I only discovered I could like guys by thinking of myself as a girl and don't like the thought of being in a gay male relationship. It feels like part of why I want to be a girl is so I can be that side of a straight couple.

>>8094470
I don't think that means it's necessarily linked. I don't find it weird that you don't like the thought of being in a gay male relationship, that's terrible for the dysphoria. That's how I feel about it too. My homosexuality fetish is separate thing I think.

I understand where you are coming from though. Do you only like men?

>>8094470
Sounds like internalized homophobia to be honest.
>Oh no, I like guys !
>But girls are the ones who like guys !
>Well, then I'm a girl.
You're forcing yourself to fit an heteronormative mold, maybe out of guilt or out of a desire to be normal-ish.

>>8093319
I have now developed this strong urge to personally find and punch this bitch in the damn throat. That's pure fucking BS.

>>8094483
That's the thing, I'd actually be ok dating a gay guy I think, as long as it made me feel feminine. It's not that I don't want to be gay, it's that I want to be a girl, so the thought of two guys does nothing for me. If he's gay and still makes me feel like it's a heterosexual relationship and I'm the girl in it, then it doesn't feel like being in a gay couple. At least that's what I think it would have to be like for me to find it a good relationship.

I like girls physically but romantically I want to be with a man.

>>8094490
I think it's the other way around, I want to fit in a heteronormative mold and the way I'm attracted to guys comes from that. That's why in my case I think my gender and orientation are linked.

>>8093319
does riley know that skin desease are considered illnesses as well? while they don't ''hurt'' they are corrupting your body.
Imagine being trans in the medieval period,no progress in medicine,not enough distributed make up to make your face femminine,nothing at all.
How can a trans person feel good without being able to transiction? Fucking riley just because ''she'' doesn't give a shit about transiction thinks everyone else doesn't.
Gross.

>>8093319

Burn

Kill

PURGE

You can make all the excuses in the world up to continue the charade that you're a victim and every problem is caused by others.

But I dearly hope that every time you look into the mirror for even just a split second subconsciously you realise you are broken and nothing will ever fix you except the ultimate sleep. You spend every waking second trying to pretend you don't feel or know this, and so you will paint yourself the pariah and find X, Y and Z to act like is the root cause.

>>8095501
>Burn
>Kill
>PURGE
How mature and reasonable!
Truly a scientific well-informed opinion and not just the ranting of some internet tough guy who has been larping as a "crusader" too much.

>>8093319
This is what someone who doesn't experience dysphoria would say.

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>>8093319
Sorry but why would take anything this horse says as fact?

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>>8093319
can someone give me a quick rundown on Riley, why do people hate her and why do people think she's a transtrender?

>>8097997
Basically he's an extreme SJW who thinks that people not wanting to date him is oppression. He also claims to be trans, but refuses to actually transition physically (and not because there's something stopping him from doing so).

>>8093319
This argument has already been dismantled. Trans people's suicide ratio doesn't change post-op, it remains the same and it is so high that only group of people are close to it: jews in Nazi Germany. Now anybody who claims that trannies face the same amount of hate and oppression as jews in Nazi Germany is clearly an idiot.

>>8097997
He's a creepy straight man posing as a lesbian mtf who is infamous because he constantly criticizes gay men and lesbians for not wanting to have sex with trans people. The reason he's a transtrender is because he won't transition, and says bullshit like his quote in the OP, which is the exact opposite of how real trans people with crippling dysphoria feel.

He's pretty much every living stereotype of a straight male fetishist which is why nobody likes him. That and his far-left horse crap is painful to listen to.

>>8094410
Except it is linked in 95% of people. Stop painting your outlying sexual orientation as normal.

>>8098103
source?

>>8098068
>quoting Ben Shapiro on trans issues

The suicide *attempt* rate for trans people is 40%, not the suicide rate. The suicide rate tends to be much, much lower, (usually like 1:200 to 1:100 success:attempt ratio) except for in the elderly, who clearly are very intent on actually killing themselves when they try to. For teenagers it usually is more of a "cry for help" situation.

The suicide rates (not ATTEMPT rates) in concentration camps are estimated to be about 25%.

The suicide attempt rates for lesbian and bisexual teenage girls are also around 40%, similar to what they are for the entire transgender population. The suicide attempt rates for white trans people making over $100k per year are about 20%, similar to what it is for all LGBT teenagers. This is clearly a combination of gender dysphoria + lacking the money to transition + being a social outcast causing an immense amount of stress in trans people, especially when they're young.

Also no, it has not been dismantled that the suicide rate is the same post-op. There are many, many studies showing that mental health improves with transitioning. Ben Shapiro and Breitbart are not credible sources, scholarly articles are. The fact that you don't even know how to differentiate between suicide rates and suicide attempt rates demonstrates you don't know anything about this topic, so for the love of god, do more research on it.

>>8098658
>For teenagers it usually is more of a "cry for help" situation.
This also explains why women are more likely to attempt suicide but men are more likely to do it. Women know their cries for help will be listened to, so they attempt it for that reason. Men attempt less because they know they won't be, but actually do it more because they are more likely to be intent on it.

>>8098736
>men attempt less because they know people won't help them
Patently false. They have less failed attempts because their brainwashing into masculinity makes them think they would be "weak" if they attempted but failed. Same reason they don't admit to having depression and let it go untreated until they kill themselves.

MRAs, instead of admitting that feminism is the first and only significant political movement that has correctly analyzing this issue that is literally killing men, instead fling bile at feminist and refuse obvious truths because that's just how deep their masculine insecurities go.

>>8098752
>Patently false.
[citation needed]

>>8098752
>Feminists say masculinity is a bad thing.
>"Feminists are the only ones who understand why men are killing themselves."

This level of cognitive dissonace

>>8098830
Feminists are masters of cognitive dissonance.

>>8098830
There is literally no contradiction in the things you said.

- Masculinity is a bad thing: it makes men both violent against others and against themselves

- Feminism is the first and only significant political movement that has correctly made the above analysis.

Literally what part of this are you too stupid to understand?

Well, I guess MRAs aren't exactly known to be bright.

Riley is an unpassable hack with cucked views. May he get assraped by a road drill

>>8098866
>he can't back up his lies >>8098793

>>8098907
It's not my fault if you're too much of an idiot to understand how sociology and citations work.
We went over this in a different thread yesterday so I won't bother again.

TL;DR: sociology is not a positive science and simple citations of reproducible experiments are impossible to provide.

You cannot provide any citation for a statement such as "feminists harm men" any more than you can for a statement such as "masculinity harms men".

All you can do is cite conjectures by sociologists which the common idiot will immediately refute as "HURR DURR OPINION PIECE."

Lrn2Sociology, kiddo.

>>8098752
ah yes make sure to keep donating to the feminist cause goy :^)

>>8098930
>considering sociology a real science
How much did you pay for your Gender Studies degree?

>>8099023
>sociology is not a real science therefore I know more about how society ticks than sociologists
Fucking idiot. :^)
I'm a computer scientist.

>>8099059
If you seriously fall for the "men bad, women weak" thing, then yeah, I would say I understand the world better. Also, the fact you didn't even major in this stuff kinda makes you sound even dumber now that it's confirmed you're using an appeal to authority fallacy.

>>8099122
>"men bad, women weak"
Which literally nobody said.

>the fact you didn't even major in this stuff
Ah, yes, you're a golden idiot.
"How much did you pay to study that useless thing? LOLOLO"
"Wait, you didn't study that? How stupid! LOLOLO"

Is your IQ single-digited?

>>8099136
I'd take you more seriously if you did study it, because then you'd at least have a reason to be pushing your snake oil. There's many types of idiots, anon. I'm just trying to figure out which one you are.

>>8099183
Come on, stop digging, you've dug yourself deep enough already. You contradicted yourself from one post to the next, so just stop making any more of an ass of yourself.

>>8099270
Me? An ass? Good sir or madam, I am a posterior, and I won't have you yelling slurs at me. Good day! *hrrrmph*

>>8099371
>Good sir or madam
It's obviously a sir, a real cis woman would never be that rude!!