How it is? We only believe that mtf/ftm are real female/male

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>>8079933
They obviously aren't REAL females or REAL males. If you analyzed the corpse of a MtF you would never think it's a woman, it would be clear from the bones and DNA that it's a male.

Their brains aren't the gender they want to be either, they might be similar (but so are homosexual brains) but that's about it.

A MtF is a mentally ill male who wants to live as a female. And that's okay.

>>8079933
Yes

>>8079941
And really they only seem mentally ill because you'd have to be crazy to live as the gender you want to when society is against it. If society didn't treat it like a big deal then I don't think it could really even be thought of as a mental illness either, just a variation from the norm. (This could be said of alot of things but I'm not suggesting every single thing this could apply to become normalized)

>>8079956
It's clearly a mental illness. Like body dysmorphic disorder. Your brain is at odds with it's body or fetishes, whatever the reason for transition is.

>>8079941
You would still be able to tell that she was at least a trans woman, depending on when she transitioned.

>A MtF is a mentally ill male who wants to live as a female. And that's okay.

No it's not. If this were true, then I would kill myself and advocate for the death of all other trans women without a moment's hesitation.

>>8079971
You wouldn't think the corpse was a female unless the person never went through male puberty at all. I'm talking about either bones or a very decomposed corpse.

A MtF has male DNA. A MtF has male bones. There would be no doubt about the gender unless it had SRS but even then you can tell from the DNA.

>No it's not.

Yes. A MtF is a mentally ill male who wants to live as what he perceives as female. That is literally what it is.

>>8079980
I'm saying that you would be able to tell that she was trans in her lifetime, not that you would think she's XX female or anything.

And by "no it's not", I meant it's not okay.

>>8079941
>>8079980
>bones
https://radiopaedia.org/articles/pelvis-1
A lie, a quarter of women have man skeletons, so unless if it's a gigantic freak like you you can't easily tell

Hospitals also stoped using chromosomes for sex determination years ago BC it doesn't work
>MtF is a mentally ill male who wants to live as a female. And that's okay.

It isn't okay, hon. You're now justifying insane men invading women's restrooms. If things are as you say, then there wouldn't be a point to medical transition.

That's why we need bathroom bills. To keep all the Perv physical men like you who are proud of being men and refuse to change that away from women.

Thank god they're on the verge of passing them everywhere and naming Hons like you from transition.

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>>8079980
>Yes. A MtF is a mentally ill male who wants to live as what he perceives as female. That is literally what it is.
are you the pedophile poster?

The one who kept posting stuff all the bio studies debunked along with pedophilia?

You got a long term ban after your last raid. You aren't allowed here.

Sage and report this perverted freak everyone!

Last thing we need is an open and proud pedophile spamer in this thread. Report, purge the criminal!

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>>8079941
>>8079980
http://archive.loveisover.me/lgbt/thread/7985603/#7985644
I love how you got frightened by all the banns and changed the image you avatar fag with to protect yourself and how you're being more low key now. ...It isn't working. People know it's you and you're getting banned for trying to cheat your earlier ban

>>8079980
And when will chromosome scans ever be relevant?

>>8079971
>>A MtF is a mentally ill male who wants to live as a female. And that's okay.
>No it's not. If this were true, then I would kill myself and advocate for the death of all other trans women without a moment's hesitation.
and you don't want to do that, ergo it's not.

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>>8080456
>A lie, a quarter of women have man skeletons, so unless if it's a gigantic freak like you you can't easily tell
>Hospitals also stoped using chromosomes for sex determination years ago BC it doesn't work.

You're literally retarded. Forensic doctors can determine the gender of a corpse even with a few bones and nothing else. They aren't getting "confused" by supposedly male skeletons on women unless the person was some kind of genetic freak.

You can literally determine sex just with bone marrow and tooth DNA: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7807717
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15835301

Or they are even able to determine the sex of ancient human remains:
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0305440313002495

>It isn't okay, hon.

I'm a ciswoman and I don't give a shit about trannies going into the bathroom as as long as they don't bother me. But I will never consider a MtF a real woman because they simply aren't.

>are you the pedophile poster?

Nope. But you seem to stalk this guy according to your screenshot collection and paranoia.

>>8080787
There are plenty of methods to determine the sex of a corpse and they are relevant if you care about reality instead of TUMBLR.

>>8083204
>But I will never consider a MtF a real woman
But if you treat them no different, by not objecting to cis and trans women sharing bathrooms, why would it ever matter that you in some way don't consider them "real"?

>>8083218
I do treat them different. I feel more comfortable around cis-women, I perceive them (on average, not always obviously) as less mentally ill and damaged.

I would not be comfortable sharing a bed with a MtF or dressing in the same room cause I'm still aware of their male origin.

However when it comes to a bathroom, I'm behind closed doors so it doesn't matter.

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I agree with the angry dyke >>8079941 >>8083204 but I do consider them real women as long as they pass. Doesn't change the fact that they are mentally ill, but that's another story.

>>8083342
It's unfortunate but you can still treat them mostly as women, not misgender them, not call for them to be treated as men, and so on, regardless of your comfort.

If you're like that then your policy towards them is ok even if your personal feelings are an issue.

>cause I'm still aware of their male origin.
Why does that change how comfortable you are around them?

>>8083404
>but I do consider them real women as long as they pass.
;_;

>>8083448
I feel bad about it. I'm not saying that's how it should be, that's just how I am. I wish I could just automatically consider any mtf as a woman, but my brain just doesn't let me unless they remotely pass.

>>8083466
>I'm not saying that's how it should be, that's just how I am.
me too ;_;

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>tfw passing and now have to deal with this.

It's awful, feeling like I can never let anyone get close to me or be around me for too long just in case. It's like being right back where you started, afraid to tell anyone anything just for a different reason. I can't even trust my cisgirl friends. One of them recently let slip to her friend that I was trans. "Are you serious? I would have never guessed!" which isn't the worst reaction ever but now she doesn't look at me the same way.

So then there's this thread. It's just so sad I really don't even know what to say anymore.

>>8083204
>You're literally retarded. Forensic doctors can determine the gender of a corpse even with a few bones and nothing else
Cite a source cause forensic courses say you can only reliably tell etnicity

>>8083604
>post studies about how you can determine sex with bone marrow and tooth DNA in the same text

... Did you even fucking read the text you just replied to?

>>8083204
>You're literally retarded

>https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15835301
>http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0305440313002495
Those are both genetic sequencing. Not bone identification.

You can't even tell living people with skeletons cause too many Caucasian women have manbones
https://radiopaedia.org/articles/pelvis-1

You admit that's true right?

>>8080787
>>8083204
http://www.nature.com/news/sex-redefined-1.16943
>According to some scientists, that balance can shift long after development is over. Studies in mice suggest that the gonad teeters between being male and female throughout life, its identity requiring constant maintenance. In 2009, researchers reported deactivating an ovarian gene called Foxl2 in adult female mice; they found that the granulosa cells that support the development of eggs transformed into Sertoli cells, which support sperm development. Two years later, a separate team showed the opposite: that inactivating a gene called Dmrt1 could turn adult testicular cells into ovarian ones. “That was the big shock, the fact that it was going on post-natally,” says Vincent Harley, a geneticist who studies gonad development at the MIMR-PHI Institute for Medical Research in Melbourne.
>http://biologyclermont.info/wwwroot/courses/oldlab2/old%20m2%20geneprob.htm
>Sex (It’s a Phenotype, Not a Chromosome!)
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/path.2335/abstract

>>8083566
>I can't even trust my cisgirl friends. One of them recently let slip to her friend that I was trans.
How do you let slip something like this?

>>8083204
>You're literally retarded.
Those are outdated papers. Hospitals stoped using chromosome tests because they were too fallible.

The genes controlling sex are autosomal and chromosomes corelate with them at most.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/path.2335/abstract

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>>8083621
And how is genetic sequencing DONE in this case? With the fucking bones. So all they need is the bones to tell the gender, whatever method they use.

>You admit that's true right?

You're wrong. 98% accuracy with the pelvis alone, the other 2% are probably genetic freaks and children.

>>8083649
How are they outdated if some of these studies are literally older than the source you linked?

>>8083660
>98% accuracy with the pelvis alone
You mean 80% acuracy
>android pelvis (20%): https://radiopaedia.org/articles/pelvis-1
You're more likely to catch real women than mtfs
>With the fucking bones
Not bones, genetic material in the marrow. And hospitals stoped using chromosomes for testing because it wasn't acurate enough. So that's your 98% accuracy

>>8083642
I kinda hoped she'd be smart enough to not do that, but well I guess I was dumb for hoping that.

>>8083682
Testing FOXL2 and SOX9 is what hospitals use now. I assume the anthropologists were incompetent or didn't need high acuracy.

>>8083690
No, I don't.

https://www.hindawi.com/journals/ijd/2017/7026796/

This study is from 2017 (so yours is outdated in comparison) and it says:

>When the skeleton exists completely, sex can be determined with 100% accuracy. The precision rate is 98% in cases of pelvis and cranium, 95% in pelvis and long bones, and 80–90% only with long bones.

If you have the pelvis and cranium, it's basically 100% accuracy.

> And hospitals stoped using chromosomes

Hospitals world-wide decided that chromosomes aren't effective to determine gender? Can you give me the link to that again, thanks.

>Gender can be determined by various methodologies such as sexual dimorphism with tooth morphology, pulpal DNA analysis, study of lip prints, palatal rugae, and finger prints and even with radiological techniques by morphometric analysis of paranasal sinuses.

There's plenty of methods to determine the gender with very good accuracy and they aren't old studies, they are from the PRESENT.

>>8083660
>which has an accuracy of 98%
and the 2% are trannies.

>>8083694
>telling your friends you are trans

>>8083761
Do you seriously believe that a tranny gets the whole bone structure of a ciswoman by swallowing hormones? Seek help please.

The 2% are people who haven't reached adolescence yet which makes identification a lot harder and not 100% accurate. Like children for example.

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>>8083771
>Not having friends before transition

>>8083694
>arfulness of that being the case and n
But why did she think it's ok to just mention it in passing?

>>8083791
>not dropping all your friends and family
trutrans and trustealth

>>8083735
>Hindawi
It's a predatory journal. They aren't credible and they aren't taken seriously. Please get a credible thing before cold fusions talk creeps in.
>pelvis
https://radiopaedia.org/articles/pelvis-1
Literally 1/5 women have android pelvises indistinguishable from men
>cranium
So if somebody has a small cranium can you distinguish when size is what they use? If it's a small cranium and they get surgery?

>>8083838
>It's a predatory journal

Holy shit. You're getting desperate now, really grasping for straws.

What about:
- https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28373883
- http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2090536X1500074X
- https://www.researchgate.net/publication/314302081_Cephalometric_Analysis_for_Gender_Determination_Using_Maxillary_Sinus_Index_A_Novel_Dimension_in_Personal_Identification

Science direct, ncbi and researchgate? Are they "predatory" too and PERHAPS TRANSPHOBIC? Because they published it too.

>Literally 1/5 women have android pelvises indistinguishable from men

Can you please quote one recent study (last 5 years) that states you can only be 80% accurate by examining the pelvis because so many women supposedly have android pelvises that make it impossible to tell?

>So if somebody has a small cranium can you distinguish when size is what they use? If it's a small cranium and they get surgery?

I don't know what your problem is but if you actually look into forensics you will see that there aren't big struggles and confusion to determine the gender of an ADULT person through various methods. But you clearly don't want to admit that and prefer your bubble so I'm leaving this conversation now.

>>8083895
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindawi_Publishing_Corporation
http://www.nature.com/news/investigating-journals-the-dark-side-of-publishing-1.12666

Hindawi is considered rubish and unreliable. Why did you flip out when I said that?

Also. Your studies only go by cranial size which means males couldn't get mischaracterized as female
>Can you please quote one recent stud
http://europepmc.org/abstract/med/8728076
I was wrong, it's a quarter of women who have male pelvises

>>8083801
I didn't ask her, I was too busy feeling inwardly sick at the moment. Like being sick to your stomach.

I don't think most cis people really, genuinely grasp how important it really is to not ever mention anything about it without expressed permission each and every time. It's like to them it's just a thing. And really anon there are enough girls that are just bad at secrets. I just kinda blame myself.

>>8079956
>they only seem mentally ill because you'd have to be crazy to live as the gender you want to when society is against it
>you'd have to be crazy to go against social pressure
That explains a lot.

>>8080481
Being a pedophile isn't a crime. Molesting kids or having child porn is, but just being a pedophile isn't.

>>8079941
But who am I? My body, or my internal sense of self?

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Just a reminder. Cis girls might be cis but most don't even value being a woman. It is just another circumstance of their birth. Like having naturally thick fingernails or something.

Transwomen fight and claw for every bit of their femininity. They are constantly told they are not real, and yet still stand tall as who they really are. Most cis women would buckle under the same pressure transwomen face. If anything most transwomen are MORE of a woman than most cis women. However, there is no such thing as being more or less of a woman. People just are women or they aren't. Transwomen most certainly, ARE women.

Pic related is a trans cutie.