How do we fix the language?

No one whose actually trans gives a shit.

>>7965907
/thread

>>7965907
Any proof?

Stop giving a fuck, that's how. Words and, by extension, language have no inherent meaning and cannot be manipulated but rather reflect the culture that employs it and changes as the culture changes.

However, it's my personal belief that trans women and men aren't, respectively, women and men in the strictest sense, but they are not men and women either. They are unique and experience struggles that are exclusive to them, so seeking to be classed as that which they are not seems forced. Why seek to be part of a cultural "gender" which you have only superficial things in common? This pursuit of being "real" men or women seems like nonsense, because what is "real"? There's no such thing. We can be biological essentialists and say that trans people are unequivocally not the gender that relates to their birth sex, but gender identity is defined not only by biology but simultaneously by culture. So then what is a "real" man or woman in a cultural sense? The answer to that is anything but singular and universal, for the gender roles of men and women differ wildly across times and regions. The most important thing to be understood is that what trans people feel, this urge to alter their chemistry and social presentation, is authentic and real, and that the treatment provided by current medical technology i.e. hormone therapy, social transition, and to a lesser extent, genital reassignment, is the most effective method of addressing that feeling based on statistical research.

Embrace that you, as a trans person, are different and experience something very unique to you. That the gender you identify as will never fully understand you as you will never fully understand them. It's more important that you understand YOURSELF; your motivations, decisions, and ideals, where they come from, and how best to apply them.

>>7965904
You don't cause you're not a real woman. Simple. Just learn to live with it Jesus christ

>>7965904
Anyone who knows how language works knows that this is not really a problem.

Also, stop trying to fuck with the English language. Change occurs naturally but when forced you are just raping the tongue of the world.

>>7965939
Words and language do affect thought and perception though. For example, people actually perceive color in a manner consistent with the words in their language. If the language has many words for shades of green, speakers of that language are much better at detecting differences in green hues. Similar for when the language does not have words for certain colors or uses one word for multiple colors

>>7965904
>fix the language
Christ, OP, does it get more Orwellian than that?

>>7965904
>cis women are real women

This is not technically part of the definition of "cis woman", so we don't need to change it. But, I have to say...

>Embrace that you, as a trans person, are different and experience something very unique to you. That the gender you identify as will never fully understand you as you will never fully understand them.

Lol what kind of bullshit is this? It's almost offensive to cis people as well as trans people, making it sound like cis women are mysteries that cannot possibly be unraveled by male-assigned people.

>>7966808
embracing your difference is essential, whether you recognize that or not
it isn't bullshit.

>>7965904
trans/cis is like saying diabetic/non-diabetic, or autistic/neurotypical.
It doesn't exclude anything, it's just highlighting a characteristic that may be important for the subject engaged in.

>>7966808
>It's almost offensive to cis people as well as trans people, making it sound like cis women are mysteries that cannot possibly be unraveled by male-assigned people.
Why is it offensive? An mtf will never have had the full cis female experience. It goes the other way too for ftms.

>>7966851
Being trans is "unique" in the same way that having pancreatic cancer is unique, fuck off.

>Why is it offensive? An mtf will never have had the full cis female experience.

Here, the suggestion is that every cis woman's experience is the same, that their experiences are invariably more similar to each other's than to any one trans woman. This of course ignores the experiences of cis women living in nations and cultures that are very different from that of the United States and other Western countries, but we should also ask ourselves: Why would it be so important that trans women have differing experiences from cis women? The same is true of cis women of different races, cultural backgrounds, body types, but they are all still considered women. Why should trans women be the only ones considered "unreal" and forever separate from other women in this regard?

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>>7965907
lol bullshit

>>7966933
>"I'm a real woman! With a penis."

Just let it go.
Nobody thinks you're a woman but you.
It is literally all in your head.

>>7967001
Pretty much everyone who knows me or meets me in person sees me as a woman, so I call bullshit on that.

>>7967042
>Pretty much everyone
>Pretty much
Family being the exception, right?

>>7967070
Yeah, I guess my grandparents and some of my extended family. But they are Jehovah's witnesses, so

>>7967093
How big a part does passing play in being seen as a woman, in your opinion?

>>7967097
I guess it plays probably the most important role, since it makes sure that strangers and people you're just meeting for the first time, see you as a woman. Voice is also more important for passing than most trannies give credit to, because it serves as a constant reminder to yourself and others that you're a girl, and most trannies don't work on theirs, so it sets you apart from them.

Of course, there are also other considerations. If someone passes pretty well, but they're always cracking jokes about being trans in public, of course people are going to start seeing them less and less as a woman. Same if they complain about being trans all the time.

>>7967156
Are there ways of passing (including voice) but still not being stealth that don't get you seen as less of a woman?

>and most trannies don't work on theirs,
Shameful really.

What's it like interacting with the relatives who still see you as a boy? I assume you pass so it must be weird for them to misgender or deadname you despite knowing you look like a cis girl.

>>7967206
>Are there ways of passing (including voice) but still not being stealth that don't get you seen as less of a woman?

I guess if you're just low-key about it, like on the DL. I'm kind of at that weird place where a lot of people know from before, but a lot of people don't, because I just don't talk about it. But it's not like I would deny it if somebody asked me.

>What's it like interacting with the relatives who still see you as a boy?

It is kind of dumb for the reason you mentioned, sometimes I will overhear them using female pronouns though, but they still fuck up a lot.

>>7967255
Are you comfortable in that weird place?

How do you put up with the relatives? What do they do besides name and sometimes pronouns because of thinking of you as a boy? How do they defend it? I wonder what it's like for them.

Invalid syllogism of the form AEE-1.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illicit_major

>>7965904
this makes no sense at all

trans women can be non cis and still "real women" just like cis women can be non trans and still be "real women"

there's no need to change anything

Trannies aren't women and never will be women.

Why not just call em transwomen?

Theyre not women and neither are they men. They have hormone levels reflective of a female, feel comfortable presenting socially as girls and are unable to exist happily as men. They have secondary sex characteristics of females and many have feminine interests and mannerisms.

This description isn't that of a man and neither it's that of a woman (born woman and has XX)

It's just a matter of implanting it into people's minds as a third gender (4th for ftms) thats just as valid as others

>>7967581
>It's just a matter of implanting it into people's minds as a third gender (4th for ftms) thats just as valid as others

This would hurt trans women and basically condemn them to suffering forever.

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>>7967581
>third gender

This
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_gender

hijra, mahu, fa'afafine, kathoey, feminiello, muxe, xanith, etc.

>>7965904
>calling your own father cis scum for missing a name
My parents, while supportive af, haven't even made efforts to switch pronouns, let alone names, yet, and I still love them to death. How edgy do you have to be to call your own, obviously supportive parent something like that?

>>7967581
there's no reason to do this when you can just integrate them into either male or female though. funcitonally there is almost zero difference except for the fact that certain parts of their bodies are different from that of cis women. there's no reason to make up a whole new category that's exactly the same as one that exists, except now everyone knows the intricate details about your genitals, which should have absolutely no bearing on 99% of anyone's daily life.

>>7967616
>>7967638
>>7967720

I dont really see the problem. Yeah its had bad consequences in the past but the thing is that in the past it was used purposefully in such a way as to segregate.

Now were using it in the opposite direction of creating an accepted term that doesn't sound fishy because its inconsistent and so transphobes cant attack it anymore because of its newfound consistency and basis on reality.

>>7967757
"Transwomen" would be barred from women's restrooms etc, we'd basically be worse off than we are now.

>>7967757
it's just pedantic and unnecessary. transphobes won't care, they'll say "there's only two genders and you'll always be a man no matter what." trying to convince them otherwise is even more of an uphill battle and it still wouldn't make trans people feel all that much better about themselves.

changing the definitions of man and woman so that trans men and women are included as a different category of each one, with just an adjective modifier to distinguish them from cis men/women seems easier than making up two more genders in the long run.

>>7965904
Were gonna need to have a violwnt revolution and reform the nkvd..its the only way.

>>7968059
>nkvd
?

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>>7965904
how about you get the fuck over yourself you massive egotist. The world doesn't revolve around you and you have no fucking right to get mad at someone for assuming you are a male or a female if you look like one regardless of what you identify as. You're hoity toity attitude of superiority is why people are so fucking uncomfortable around trans folk. Fuck you and fuck your feelings, we all have problems and insecurities and lives filled with struggle so shut the fuck up and get over yourself.

i know not many ppl will take this seriously lol but i need to do a survey for my government class about the trans bathroom bill and 3 other questions. its anonymous and takes like 2 minute tops..
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSfAufJiCMrIhEsHwSXtqk_MQDRwKP0_9u_QGEh6-M4SfEQAhg/viewform?usp=sf_link