>tfw dedicated all this time to trying to explain my new and

And that's why autism and being an advocate of something just don't go hand in hand.

>>7905775
too bad, so sad.

>>7905775
>trying to explain something to caraposter for hours
You are not qualified for any science research, anon. Just enjoy your neet life.

>>7905775
your problem lies in assuming 1. more than a handful of people read these threads 2. you're not just explaining the same things over and over to people who already know it and 3. the majority of users are intelligent enough to understand and also give a shit

most importantly, over 50% of trans people do not want to hear that socially integrating as their actual gender is nearly impossible, or that they project romantic/sexual attraction back onto themselves (which implies that they're incapable of being truly attracted to other people and maybe even narcissistic) or be compared to transvestites and perverts. the fact that all those things are based in truth but get twisted and distorted by people like cara doesn't help, either. and true trutrans usually don't have a reason to bother learning about it unless they want an easy conversational punching bag.

i don't think you can really understand the level of cognitive dissonance if you don't fit the a*p type yourself.

>>7907565
I'm thankful for blanchard anon, 1. they've given me a reason to continue browsing this board by sharing their knowledge on a particular very subject not many people know anything about, 2. they seem to be helping cara transition if at times it seems like cara is going no where, 3. they have helped me better understand why I am the way I am which is very important to me.
>>7905775
you shouldn't feel guilty that cara took parts of Blanchards typology you taught her and reappropriated it to fit some kind of system in which it seems impossible / illegitimate for her to transition / possible for her to spew hate at other ts people. Also you can't control what people do with the information you provide, of course people are going to take what you say and essentially do what cara is doing and purposefully misinterpret blanchards typology to further their own shitposting agenda.

>>7907611
even if at times *

>>7907611
yeah, i didn't mean to come off as hostile to OP, i just wanted to give an explanation for why his chosen battle is so uphill.

fwiw i also appreciate your posts blanchard anon, and i would never have looked any more deeply into any of this if it weren't for /tttt/. i'm sorry your situation is so shit but you are genuinely smart and a good (and patient) teacher, i'm sure you'll be successful in whatever you want to do as soon as you get an opportunity.

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>>7905775
I have tried doing much the same and wasted way to much time trying to get trans people to stop dividing the community, and being so hostile towards each other, and especially transbians.

I have even done what I can to make peace between the trans lesbians and the cis lesbians.

Ultimately this board exists to allow people to be aweful to each other without repercussions. Also despite that people on this board consider themselves really smart. The bulk of the population actually aren't all that smart, most are just shit posting trolls who enjoy anonymity.

I honestly don't know what the solution is. All the early vs late transitioner nonsense and other stuff. It never ends.

Like we face so much REAL discrimination I can't believe we subject ourselves to invented discrimination amoungst our own group.

I like 4 chan because it seems to have a big trans population and I feel I can be more honest here. I like to imagine I get a better feel of what the climate of cis to trans people is like but deep down I know that is wrong.

Like if you post on the other boards about being trans like /ic/ or other random stuff people freak out and tell you to "kill yourself you mentally ill mess" No one even wants to understand.

blanchard is retarded and you are a sperg fuccboi. im glad you autists spend all day shitting yourself with your impotent neurosis because you are so totally neutralized. fuck you.

>>7905775
>people kept being wrong, kept doing all their 'trutrans' bullshit and hurting each other, but started using the precious and sacred language of your pure, harmless typology even more than they already were, and you had explained it to them in the first place so they would *stop* doing that when yelling at and making fun of each other, and just made the same evil posts they always had but find+replace 'trutrans' for 'hsts'
>spent hours trying to explain the typology to cara but she did it worse than anyone
It's not as if it's hard to tell when your time is being wasted that badly. Why do you throw pearls to swine?

>lost person i care about because she thinks the typology is evil and disgusting and that anyone who uses it is the same (after just figuring out that i was legit about the typology and not memeing)
Perhaps educating her would have been a better use of your time or perhaps she didn't deserve your care.

>>7905775
>>lost person i care about because she thinks the typology is evil and disgusting and that anyone who uses it is the same (after just figuring out that i was legit about the typology and not memeing)

How can you characterize it that way when you wouldn't even talk to me about it after I messaged you on Skype, and basically used Cara as a go-between? I honestly have no idea exactly what she told you, and I don't think you have any idea exactly what I said to her about you, unless she literally just copy and pasted what I said. Even if that's what happened, we never really had a conversation about this, so how can you say you "lost me" over something we never even fought about?

>>7905775
But you have a study full of AGP hons proving that not only are they very masculine neurologically, but they also have a lot of sex related stuff hypertrophied.

How does this explicitly not prove that the archetypal AGP are not only manly men, but also prone to sadism and hyper sexuality.

It means not only are many trans illegitimate, especially all the ones visible in public but also proves they're potential predators. This is the justification we need to keep them out.

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>>7910857
this
hsts are pure if treated early enough though

>>7905775
I appreciate your efforts, i'm an AGP and it's always interesting to learn more about it.

>>7910857
Might be due to decades of T exposure rather than the condition itself. It does concern me because i'm on the repression train and I wonder if my brain will end up like that of an AGP hon.

>>7905775
Holy shit get a hobby. It will always just be a 4chan meme because actual doctors who treat actual people will laugh you out of the room if you claim this nonsense.

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>>7905775
what

>>7910857
It would serve you right if one day science tells us you yourself aren't trutrans and you get made to be a man again.

holy fuck this board is retarded

this kind of thing is why /lgbt/ is the worst board

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>>7911824
You realize I'm almost certainly some sort of psychotic twink with a pill addiction, not true trans. I don't want to socially transition either, that just makes my Bdd worse.

>>7911863
Then you should be sympathetic to someone who doesn't fit gender expectations. Imagine being forced to socially transition and not allowed to identify as male because of looking feminine.

>>7911863
Why can't people like you keep your weird pseudoscience shit to yourselves instead of harassing innocent people who have nothing to do with you, nor your ridiculous delusions, conspiracy theories, and neuroses?

>>7911873
It was a study with fifty year old men who had not yet transitioned by that point. I'm not bullying anyone when they're bullies who abuse others
>>7911899
It was a study looking at fifty year old hon men that confirmed they just like wearing their wives panties out of a hyper sexualized craze. That just confirmed the obvious, people were right about what they thought of them.

>>7916105
>out of a repressed dysphoria.
FTFY

>>7916146
They didn't have dysphoria, they were neurologically sex fiends

>>7916161
No true Scotsman.

>>7916105
Can you post the study? I doubt the study says quite what you say it does. I have some sympathy for AGP hons, they can never be proper straight men, but they're too masc for womanhood.

I'm a younger version of an AGP hon. I've always felt a desire to wear womens clothing, but I never do it. Maybe I should sometime.

>>7918192
i have the feeling rv-chan has not actually read the study, given as she's only heard about it second-hand from me and has filtered it through her overwhelming fear of late transitioners
but certainly, here's the full study:
http://booksc.org/book/32802108

>>7918192
>they can never be proper straight men, but they're too masc for womanhood.
>I'm a younger version of an AGP hon.
How are you going to handle the future with both genders out of your reach?

>>7918230
I don't know smoke weed and play video games? Don't get married? Read 4chan?

You never explained to me what my issue is Blanchardian anon. Bi MtF I had no dysphoria in my teens, until 18 I started being jealous of cis girls. 19 full blown want to be female. 20 on hormones. Coincidentally I felt fetishistic arousal about my ex gf at the time dating a guy with a big dick. I also fapped in panties before but wasn't really into this.

I felt no fetishistic arousal at the thought of being a female, it was just a deep seated need and that need not being met fucked with me so badly.

I'm more socially and romantically successful after transition than before, am more comfortable socializing, etc...

>>7918588
idk, you're pretty clearly agp
i've met a lot of people who describe similar things to you in that they have a*p-type experiences but can't identify anything as specifically autoerotic, they just have a combination of some innate need with everything else a*ps do, and i see no reason to call these people anything but a variant of the a*p pattern
it's much more common for trans men than trans women, though -- i meet a lot of trans guys who couldn't specifically identify any of their behaviour as autoerotic but have all the glaring aap signs (e.g. obsession with fanfiction and male characters)
having a better-by-objective-measures life post-transition is possible for either type and reasonably common for 'failed male' agps

>>7918614
I know you've also talked about how you "feel" that agps are more manly in terms of personality. A friend told me I "feel" like a male and female stitched together. My perception of my own gender identity similarly sways (although never about which kind of body I would prefer--female, absolutely).

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What if im simply bi but otherwise match the HSTS box rather than the AGP? The thing I find "dumb" personally is how JUST because im not EXCLUSIVELY androphilic I get instantly lumped into the box of being sexually motivated although im not? Please enlighten me as to how like this binary typology is made to accomodate all the variation that is within the trans community. I've talked to my bi GF about it (sexuality) and to say we're very very much alike is rather a confirmation how im fundamentally different from AGP's but then also HSTS.

>>7918645
i don't believe bisexuality in trans women is an absolute contraindication to hsts status, given the prevalence of bisexuality in cis women
it is clear to me that the majority of bisexual trans women are agp, but it's not a perfect correlation and primarily androphilic bisexual trans women are maybe more likely to be hsts than agp (further research is needed, controlling for meta-attraction is specifically needed)
i think there's a spectrum within hsts experience where some people are more similar to natal sex cisgays and some more similar to transitioned sex cishets, and kinsey 2ish bisexuality in women (male) is leaning towards the latter

>>7918614
Then isn't a*p a misnomer meant to stigmatize people who fall under it?

>>7918665
why are you ignoring
>>7918625

>>7918668
...no?
'doesn't identify something' =/= 'doesn't experience it'
>>7918672
i wasn't, i just wasn't sure how to respond
it seemed more like a 'oh by the way here's another experience i have that fits with the data' than 'explain this pls'

>>7918679
>'doesn't identify something' =/= 'doesn't experience it'
So now you're denying their lack of such experiences because it doesn't fit your narrative.

>>7918665
This is also what was making me confused, it is prevalent among them and the typology doesn't really accommodate for that I think.
Okay so personally im primarily androphilic but yes meta-attraction and stuff, using kinsey scale and otherwise what would you specifically use to determine it? Age of transition or is that still kind of fluid? Repressing behaviors? Sexual behaviors, and then also stuff beside what is obviously A*P but also other things? Im genuinely interested but the overly strict, binary kind of puts me off. I had a good ex-friend that was rather A*P but in some sense I also felt threatened as soon as we started talking about our trans experiences and we were so fundamentally different and it was rather obvious he was leaning towards a more sexually motivated transition, although he also experienced dysphoria.

>>7918694
no, i'm 'denying' it because i've met enough people who give that narrative, and talked further to a subsection of those people, to believe i have a sample that is at least slightly representative and that it shows a*p-occulta is, in fact, a*p
anecdotal observation: a*p-occulta seems connected to the broader 'erotic target location error' profile in which someone experiences multiple types of distress-over-not-having-traits-they're-attracted-to -- e.g. a gay hebephilic trans man who's as dysphoric over being not-12 as he is over being not-male -- but as noted this observation has only been found in ftms and i have no idea at all if it could generalize to mtfs (ironically for the claim etles are exclusive to natal males, almost every observation i have for how the broader etle profile works was made with natal females)

>>7918707
I'm attracted to curvy women and I wish I had a slender, boyish, androgynous female body. Explain?

>>7918704
age of transition has a high sensitivity and low specificity. if you transitioned after 30 or so it's a near-guarantee you aren't hsts (if mtf, things hold a little less true for ftms due to age not fucking you over *as strongly* for passability, but even then late-transitioning ftm hstses are all strongly on the cisgay end of the hsts spectrum -- same observation is true for the one (1) late-transitioning hsts mtf i've met), but transitioning as early as your teens is no guarantee of being hsts
you'd need a multi-factor model to study bisexuality in hsts women and distinguish it from the variant their agp sisters have. age of transition + gnc throughout lifetime could cover most of it, as well as obviously the explicit 'are you aroused by x agp behaviour' question.

>>7918711
maybe 'your type' and 'your' 'type' are different
this is where we get into Attraction Is Fucking Weird, which at this point dedicated anti-blanchardians start yelling that they beat me because i admitted nobody knows absolutely 100% of things in the entire world about how sexuality works (...so, logically, the best conclusion is to go for exactly how we know it *doesn't* work! /transcommunity)
also as noted the direct translation between desire to dysphoria in etles seems to be primarily natal female, also see how aaps near-universally desire to be feminine men (the same type they're attracted to) and are slightly disgusted or even more-dysphoric-than-before at the idea of being masc, which is counterintuitive to most people who are not trans men

>>7918719
Okay so it's rather complicated then. But this is what I mean. Im fundamentally not HSTS seeing as im not exclusively androphilic but on the other hand im not aroused by AGP stuff and im way more on the HSTS side. Would there be a way to like pinpoint it, make it definite cause I really want to know cause im interested but at the same time im really frustrated with how binary and small the 2 boxes are for decribing me.

>>7918738
like i said, i think 'primarily androphilic bisexual trans woman who otherwise fits hsts profile' generally just means hsts
you wouldn't be the first person i've met who at least surface appears that way, though i haven't delved too deep into it yet and it's possible that further down the line i'll categorize that cluster as agp instead

>>7918728
So hey, if some agp is just having etles, and they have a normal male neurology and thus a completely different etiology than hsts mtfs--why is it that agps feel dyphoria about 'having' male-minded interests?

Could it be that their neurology is masculized just as varying body parts can be masculized, and that their female identity comes from a different source? Why do you always ignore me when I say this? And why do you always ignore that the neuro studies of gynephilic mtfs you cite, never use gynephilic cis women as controls?

>>7918750
>Could it be that their neurology is masculized just as varying body parts can be masculized, and that their female identity comes from a different source?
...this is, in fact, what i believe
it is what i have explicitly stated as my belief on several occasions
is it possible we are talking past each other?
>And why do you always ignore that the neuro studies of gynephilic mtfs you cite, never use gynephilic cis women as controls?
i've addressed this before. i think this is a lack on the part of the studies. however, studies of gynephilic cis women (and gynephilic natal females as a whole) do in fact exist, and it is possible to cross-reference mtf studies and lesbian studies (or ftm studies, which all things considered are the best cross-reference here because in my experience they're better at outlining if any given brain region is actually masculine, feminine, or neuter rather than just going 'yep this is more masc than we expected'). the conclusion i have come to from this is that gynephilic natal females and gynephilic natal males are separate neurological clusters. but yes, i want to see a study confirming (or falsifying) this as much as you do.

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>>7918728
Well to be specific, I like boobs and hips and curviness, but I wish I were more like pic related. Which, while I find attractive, it's a lot more.. primal, with a curvier woman, if that makes sense.

By the way, I also have AAP fantasies and regularly read AAP fanfiction. Girlfag erotic stories are fucking HOT. I present both feminine male and female and enjoy doing both.

>>7918780
>this is, in fact, what i believe
I was under the impression that you believe that a*p's derive their cross-sex identity from auto-eroticism whereas csts derive it from "genuine" cross-sex identity, and that the identity in these two are distinct.

>>7918782
wouldn't be the first trans person i've met with a*p in the opposite direction, either. it's a pretty interesting experience. i've observed it in both people who have both types and people who only have the opposite one (that is, are underlyingly hsts).

>>7918749
And in that way I feel the typology is too rigid and that it should be changed to accomodate more variation. Why have a "nicely" worked out typology if people don't even fit? It's not that I understand the concept of meta attraction put forth but then it just assumes so much about "us", like technically I can't be HSTS just on the grounds that im not "homosexual" and that technically means im AGP while that most certainly doesn't really fit me and im kind of just dumped into that category because the system is flawed or something. I think the most wrong about it is the assumption of motivations and stuff, purely based on sexuality. If you feel that we can bend the system so as to accomodate bi's in the HSTS category doesn't that make it clear that it is flawed, atleast to some degree? That either I am put into a category wich even the name suggest im not that but the other option being way off too so im just dumped into either. I think it would be interesting to hear your thoughts about this, it's been on my mind alot.

>>7918799
Do you think having a*p in both directions can explain my bizarre "double" personality? (rather than having a blended personality, I have strong traits of both male and female--nurturing, socially cohesive, diplomatic, but also territorial, callous, etc)
The friend I referenced earlier suggested I might be bigender, which, she's normally never tumblry, so it made me think.

>>7918200
I've read Savick before, not only did it find the hons it used for subjects to be all but indistinguishable from men, but the only difference was overgrown grey matter for things tied to sex. It proves the terfs were right, at least about hons. If they ever were able to associate the findings to other groups it would be a reason for mass euthanisia.

What's more, they used Swedish subjects and that's significant two fold, since Scandinavia likes to prevent young from transitioning and favors old, very developed men cause they aren't "damaging anyone's growth", and that Sweden deliberately encourage hons and promotes their drive to go on an orgy of their worst sexual impulses, you have a combined effect where's Scandinavia drove near all of its nonhon trans extinct and encourages their hons violence. The Savick hons might be an especially horrible strain of people.

That's why all those bathroom laws and ID laws in the states are our last hope. They will naturally thin the population of hons, and all the intense scrutiny and treatment of trans as criminals will lead to people and other trans and lgbt hounding and shaming hons who do anything that even hints at being sleazy. It will be the reverse of Scandinavia.
>>7918719
You do realize this proves that any Hsts that's a hon and virile, even if we're talking about 20s, is AGP and just as bad as the old men from study

>>7919105
I want to delete this but I can't, I think I went too far

>>7919105
>That's why all those bathroom laws and ID laws in the states are our last hope. They will naturally thin the population of hons,
You want to force trans people into repression, misery and suicide.

Severe derangement across the board

>>7905775
>aurism speaks

>>7905775
Do you know why they deny and pervert the typology?