Gender Assignment

>>7905400
>Do they want all children to be raised agender or unisex or something?
from talking to the more sophisticated people with this philosophy and getting their slightly-better-considered opinions on the topic, yes they do
though i'm not sure why you're asking /tttt/ given nobody here thinks that way

>>7905454
>/tttt/
kek

>>7905454
Gosh, no wonder everyone hates trannies.

>>7905488
it is worth noting the majority of people espousing this philosophy are not, in fact, trans, though some of them have trans-adjacent experiences (i.e. mild dysphoria that would not be best treated by transition)

Assigning them at birth is only a problem in shitholes like Ohio and Tennessee where you can't get your birth certificate changed. Also it's funny how "assigning" at birth is violence but strapping down a newborn who was assigned male at birth and ripping their genitals apart is not.

>>7905400
>Do they want all children to be raised agender or unisex or something?
What's wrong with that way of raising children?

>>7905454
>nobody here thinks that way
Wrong.

>>7905400
>What is their solution to this problem, exactly? Do they want all children to be raised agender or unisex or something?
Yes. Eliminate the concepts of "sex" and "gender", instead break the biological side of things into its various components (like genitalia, chromosomes, sex hormones). Don't push to eliminate all traits that we consider "gendered", but rather let everyone choose their interests and presentation based on what they themselves want, rather than pushing double standards based on gender.

>>7906644
Chromosomes don't even control sex you flunkout http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/path.2335/abstract
http://www.nature.com/news/sex-redefined-1.16943
At least stick to legit rules of thumb like sperm/ovum production. Or better yet, don't try and set public policy when you obviously aren't capable of that sort of ability.

>>7906674
I didn't say they do?

>>7905400
We don't need a legal gender. There's no good reason a doctor has to note down a gender for the birth certificate.

>>7905454
>>7905497
So they only feel this should apply to intersex babies or maybe trans people that show signs of dysphoria from an extremely young age?

As a straight white cis male, I agree. A goal should be to remove gender from all official lists, anyway.
Assigning gender is not exactly violence, but it's not a good thing either.
Raising your kids differently based on gender is problematic. Don't force gender roles upon your children, let them choose for themselves.
Okay this is a bit all over the place.
Point is, get rid of gender and gender roles and sexism.

>>7905610
If you worry about MGM getting this to pass may actually help, as long as the law is written based on GENDER. If we get rid of gender for children, the laws against FGM would protect males as well because there'd be no way to know if they were a girl or a boy. Every male you mutilate could be a girl.

I would be so pissed if my parents tried raising me as some agender snowflake.

>>7907643
The point is not to raise people to be genderless, it's to let people choose their own gender expression instead of forcing them into preset gender roles, and also to teach people that gender doesn't matter, we are all individuals, which is inportant to end sexism.
The goal is not to deny you to act in traditionally gendered ways, it's to let you choose from all options and not only what has traditionally belonged to your gender.

>>7907643
You'd prefer being raised as a boy?

>>7907701
I'd rather be called a boy the first few years of my life than have my parents be super autistic and tell everyone I go by ze/zir pronouns when I'm barely old enough to talk.

My parents let me begin transitioning when I was in elementary school so I may have lost a few years being the wrong gender but I barely remember them. Who gives a shit.

>>7907743
Nice strawman. Nobody mentioned snowflake genders and the people who get triggered by them are the same people who misgender you.

Don't think that just because you were find with being raised a boy that everybody is and don't defend them being forced into that.

>>7907757
Like .03% of people aren't ok with it brah.

>>7907771
Isn't that the exact same arguments TERF's and /pol/ use to say trans people should be forced to conform and repress?

>>7905400
Gender is self evident for nearly all of humanity. Those that claim to be something else are mentally ill. That is not to say they don't deserve sympathy and treatment but we should not be modifying a practice that works for 99.9% of the population

>>7905400
There is no solution, they wil find more problems I'm sure.

>>7905400
>Lots of tranny sjws are against doctors "assigning" genders at birth. Like the gender terrorist said, calling someone a girl or boy when they pop out of the womb is an act of "violence".
Are these people talking in general, or are they specifically talking about people born with intersex conditions? Its fairly common for doctors to perform surgery on intersex children to make them more like one gender or the other, and at that age the kid doesn't really have any input in the matter which is blatantly harmful (though I've heard its become less common since the David Reimer thing a few decades ago). In those cases I think most people here would agree that its wrong for doctors to arbitrarily "assign" those people a gender.

>>7906810
no, they think it should be done to everyone because they think like 60% of people would be 'trans' (by their lol-what's-dysphoria definition of 'trans') in that environment

>>7909974
elaborate please

>>7909974
Trans and dysphoria rates are irrelevant. Trans people could be nonexistent and it would still be wrong to force these roles onto people.

>>7905400
I think a better question is what is gained by reducing people to an M or an F on a piece of paper?

>>7905400
>I see them complaining all the time but they never actually suggest an alternate method for doctors to use other than "stahp it".
There is no way to know until the child's mind shows what gender the child is. The part of the mind that is gender dimorphic doesn't show any differences until after puberty.

>>7905400
>What is their solution to this problem, exactly? Do they want all children to be raised agender or unisex or something?
Why not?

Why do you need to keep gender roles and have male/female tags on the child? To filter through child porn easier?
Anyone who argues for keeping gender roles and that male/female tags for children is necessary is a pedophile.

>>7905400
Seems the only sensible option is to give them a slash of reality, let them live in the middle East for a while and see if that changes there definition of violence.

>>7907626
>Assigning gender is not exactly violence,
As somebody who was operated on and assigned male as an infant, it is. I'm thoroughly feminine not masculine. I went through hell as a child because everybody was forcing me to be male. I have none of the masculine drives. They just don't compute for me.

>>7907643
>>7907743
I highly doubt it. You'd have selected your gender as you grew up by what and who you played with, and how you played.

>>7907771
>>7907866
About 4% to 5% of the population are routine crossdressers and .3% are transgender.

>>7910024
agreed.

>>7910722
In a patriarchy it makes a big difference. We need to chuck the patriarchal ways.

>>7911598
What condition did they decide needed correcting on you?

>I went through hell as a child because everybody was forcing me to be male.
What male things did they force on you?

>>7911598
>Selected your gender
>Implying it's selectable
If we abolished gender in children, gender would be abolished completely. We would judge people by their biological sex and then refer to them as "feminine X" or "masculine X"
You trannies would disappear. There would be no one telling you to "not act girly" and what you call "dysphoria" would never be enforced into your minds. You'd be allowed to be a male who wears dresses, you'd be allowed to be a male who has long, pretty hair and wears make up. You'd be allowed to be a male that plays with dolls.
And for the trannies who legitimately feel they're in the wrong body, they'd be classified as mentally ill, as they should be.

>>7911626
I was born with both...
everything. Any feminine expression was punished.

>>7911631
>And for the trannies who legitimately feel they're in the wrong body, they'd be classified as mentally ill, as they should be.
The APA has decide transsexualism is just a condition of birth. Both the brain and body are fine, just mismatched.

>>7911631
>If we abolished gender in children, gender would be abolished completely.
That would be great.

>We would judge people by their biological sex and then refer to them as "feminine X" or "masculine X"
Or we wouldn't judge and refer to people according to their sex at all.

>You trannies would disappear.
The real cure for transgenderism!

>And for the trannies who legitimately feel they're in the wrong body, they'd be classified as mentally ill, as they should be.
You're assuming there would be any.

>>7911631
>be tranny
>be allowed to be a male who wears dresses, you'd be allowed to be a male who has long, pretty hair and wears make up. You'd be allowed to be a male that plays with dolls.

except none of this shit fucking matters to me because i dont want to be male, even if gender was abolished the male and female sexes are obviously different and as a MTF i'd want to look as female as possible and not just some fucking dude being free to wear dresses

>>7911679
Hear! Hear!

>>7911668
>I was born with both...
Which intersex condition?

>everything. Any feminine expression was punished.
Examples?

>>7911703
true hermaphrodism.
Thinking about that era of my life triggers my ptsd. Yes, I have complex-ptsd from how badly I was treated as a child.

>>7911679
LOL! You're literally not getting it! What is "looking female" in a society where expectations of biological sex don't exist?

That's right, it's you believing you're legitimately born in the wrong body, a mental illness.

>>7911733
again, you're wrong

you can erase the concept of gender but you can't erase the concept of sex

THEY'LL ALWAYS BE INHERENTLY DIFFERENT FROM EACH OTHER

>>7911733
we aren't talking of a genderless society, but one where gender expression isn't enforced. People get to choose their own expression. Most will be masculine or feminine, and some will be inbetween.

>>7911724
You mean ovotesticular DSD?

Which jurisdiction surgically assigned you? Which decade?

Are you on /lgbt/ now because you transitioned to female?

Tumblr's full of shit as always. Now, if people could stop AGGRESSIVELY gendering children by slapping pink or blue on them and only letting them like certain things, that would be super. But as long as you're not actively making what might be a trans child miserable by aggressively trying to teach them how they should think and act as their assigned gender, I don't see a problem with it.

>>7911753
>But as long as you're not actively making what might be a trans child miserable by aggressively trying to teach them how they should think and act as their assigned gender, I don't see a problem with it.
What exactly is ok in your opinion? From a default of perfectly identical treatment regardless of sex.

>>7911751
Actually they left my ovaries and uterus in me not knowing they were there. They removed my vagina and left the dick. It happened back in the '60s very close to where John Money worked. I'm MtF.

>>7911753
Society also places to many gendered expectations on how a children should act. Most of my issues came from society. Especially the school system I was raised in.

>>7911797
you're over 50??

>>7911805
yeah...PS, I've been a computer user and programmer since the '70s.

>>7911805
The real question is whether it would happen today in western countries and what chance a kid has of escaping intact.

>>7911751
these genital mutilations still go on even in first world countries. They are becoming more common in third world countries.

>>7911815
see >>7911820

>>7911820
Where can I get more information about frequency, legality, controversies, etc?

In particular anything about campaigning against it?

>>7911854
The now defunct Intersex Society of North America. I'm not sure of more current campaigns.

>>7911854
I kinda remember there being somewhere around 1 in 300 live births having a DSD that would be operated on.

I'm on the unique side because I'm a chimera with both XX and XY cell lines. Both tried to make gonads. They have no clue how frequent kids like me are.

>>7911866
>defunct
What happened to them?

>>7911882
>XX and XY
No way! Tell us more.

>>7911914
read
http://www.nature.com/news/sex-redefined-1.16943
I'm like the 46 yo pregnant woman. I learned about mine because I have two different blood types.

>>7911910
Likely lack of money for the cause.

>>7911745
>>7911743
Yes I'm aware. Gender and gender roles are synonyms, it is the expectation of your sex, is it not? So where gender roles are not enforced, there are no expectations of your biological sex. Which leaves "dysphoria" as nothing more than believing you were born in the wrong body.

I'm not sure what made you think I was disagreeing with you guys.

>>7912019
>Which leaves "dysphoria" as nothing more than believing you were born in the wrong body.
No, gender dysphoria will still be an issue. The mismatch between the brain and body will still be there.

>>7912042
That is an untested hypothesis.

>>7912019
>So where gender roles are not enforced, there are no expectations of your biological sex.

I don't give a fuck about this.
I want to look female, which means NOT male, which means: bigger hips, breasts, different fat redistribution, smaller ribcage, smaller head....and so on, all the dimorphic traits between the two sexes.

What is it that you don't understand?

>>7912066
What part of you being mentally ill do *you* not understand? So obsessed with your appearance that you would go through needless surgeries to cut and shave your body structure into fitting a certain shape.

>>7912086
So I'm mentally ill.

So what?

I'm much happier than I was before.

>>7912090
I don't doubt it.
I just believe that we should focus on how to relieve you of your troubling thoughts instead of embracing you for the freak show that you are.
Now I'm aware that transitioning is what helps those thoughts. I just can't help but feel there's a better way forward than this, but it won't be explored because we've decided transitioning should just be acceptable rather.

>>7912106
They've been explored.
This is why transition is now globally accepted by the medical community as the best treatment.

Maybe someday in the future when we can rewire the brain then trannies will truly dissapear.

>>7912129
except rewiring the brain will cause massive personality changes. The diffs between male and female are large.

>>7910722
Proper medical care for one.

>>7912479
Your doctor can still find out what physical sex you are without you needing to be assigned a legal gender.

>>7906722
Demographic purposes in tracking sex specific diseases and health issues. Economic purposes in tracking employment equality. Sociological purposes for tracking anything from domestic violence and crime to specific psychological needs.

There are tons of reasons to track sex. Men and women are inherently different and have different needs. Quit being fucking retarded.

>>7912482
They're not "assigning" anything. They're listing your biological sex for reasons like >>7914159 said.

You're free to identify as a flying demigiraffe transmoron all you want, but I highly doubt doctors are ever going to stop calling babies male and female just because a tiny minority of retarded people in the west are mad about it.

>>7912479
That is utterly irrelevant to what OP and anyone like that are talking about. This is about gender norms, sex segregating, making kids use/not use dolls, dressing or blue/pink things on account of their genitals.

Nobody is taking your straw man position of saying doctors don't get to know the sex of the person they are treating.

You are inventing excuses for your indefensible TERF views that were called out ages ago >>7907771 >>7907793

>>7914451
>>7914159
France doesn't record race in its censuses and demographic data yet it manages to function as a society.

The real reasons people like you believe in gender is so that society is stratified on an individual level. You don't care about the meta date, you want individuals to be singled out on account of sex. Quit being a sexist bigot.

>>7915124
You idiot. OP is referring to SJWs who want to abolish biological sex and raise kids as unisex.

I would know because I am the OP, posting as anon.

>>7915199
>and raise kids as unisex.
Which is nothing to do with your dishonest excuses for gendering people >>7912479 >>7914451 as the post you are replying to explains.

>>7915811
Get over it.

>>7916035
>triggered