Why does MtF get so much hate when compared to FtM?

>>7902174
There is more control over biological male's gender and emotional expression.
This is because tribes needed every male to be physically and emotionally capable of protecting their group, so group dynamics evolved to have the entire tribe pressure males to be emotionless husks (except anger).

>>7902174
>Why does MtF get so much hate when compared to FtM?

Justice.

>>7902174
Misandry.

>>7902174
big scary things vs tiny cutesy things

Testerone is the dominate hormone. FTMs on testerone as basically always totally male in a year or two.

MTF on estrogen still often require surgery and other procedures to to become indiscernible from cis women, and often that is an impossible goal.

Also men who run the show are more hostile to girly men (what they see mtfs as) than FTMs who end up just one of the bros.

It all fucking sucks. The world is more critical of women too. That rubs off on us as we are seen as neither women or men most of the time.

Men don't want us in their club, and we don't want to be there either. Women don't want to let us into their club, because they feel it will degrade the reputation of women overall by accepting us.

>>7902199
Wouldn't tribes also need females to be capable of and willing to bear children?

>>7902526
Aaaand MtFs can't have children. So they're fucking useless, even compared to FtMs.

FTM are mostly stealth, don't cause problems, and don't whine.

MTF are mostly hideous honbeasts, sound like men still, and bitch/whine fucking endlessly.

>>7902526
>capable
this is a solely physical attribute, not a behavioral one, so it's not really relevant in this conversation.
>willing
Rape exists for a reason too. Given, most females are willing if enough dominance is displayed (dominance read as 'viability' in males, i.e. dependent on place and time).
Once they have the child, ~90% of females will love and care for it regardless of whether they wanted it in the first place or not.

>>7902561
we can have children with women and ftms.

>>7902607
HRT renders you permanently infertile.

FTM's on Test can still get pregnant.

>>7902620
Well, they can't get pregnant when they're still ON test, but they can get off test and get pregnant, yes.

>>7902578
At my gender place there are usually a bunch of ftms just browsing their phone or reading or whatever and one old hon who wont stop talking and making everyone feel awkward.

>>7902628
I think they can but if they continue on it while pregnant the baby will be a freak.
As will they.

>>7902174
They usually look more grotesque

>>7902638
HON STORIES NOW

>>7902693
Not that i think about, i've always wondered what a FtM hon looks like.

>>7902698
You'd need to be a 20/10 goddess to be a FTM hon probably.

And at that point, you'd probably just wanna marry a billionaire and repress than go FTM.

>>7902620
it's not that straightforward.. i've heard of an mtf on hormones for years impregnating their partner

>>7902712
Marry a billionaire, kill them, take the money then transition with the best surgeries available taking on a new identity.

>>7902698
Imagine a butch lesbian.

>>7902715
Nah, I almost went on HRT to go the femboy route but the infertility thing made me second guess.

Biological children are far more important to me than a QT body.

I could freeze sperm, but impregnation sex is by far the best kind of sex.

t. Biscum

>>7902732
>Biological children are far more important to me than a QT body
>impregnation sex is by far the best kind of sex
should've gone through with HRT and sterilized yourself desu

>>7902739
Jelly monosexual detected.

>>7902739
I'd rather him spread the cancer for the future (straight people's spawns) then fuck with my current world.

>>7902770
swing and a miss :^)

Gynocentrism.
Femininity is protected. Females are sacred, female stuff is sacred. MtF are seen as not worthy of it.

Nobody cares about males or masculinity.
Wanna be a man? It's your suicide. Shut up and get to work.
You'd think there'd be more pressure to stop FtM from transitioning though since it means the loss of a valuable womb (assuming hysto)

>>7902882
/thread

>>7902882
are we running out of humans or something

i've been in public before and almost everyone i met should've been sterilized

>>7902907
It's leftovers from other times. Most problems of society are leftovers from other times.

>>7902694
this board in general

>>7902174
Because straight men get triggered by the concept that they might be attracted to someone with a dick

>>7902928
>Most problems of society are leftovers from other times.
Gender quotas?

>>7903386
Yes. Females are more valuable because 1 of them is equal to 100's of men as far as reproduction is concerned. This mattered back when humans were scarce. It doesn't matter anymore, but we're still influenced by this standard.

Women are allowed to do whatever they want.

>>7903370
>b-but im not gay
>you're not a real woman
>you just want to trick us into having sex with you
>rape by deception
WEW LAD

>>7902174
Pussy Pass

>>7902174
Because when they don't pass (mostly pre-T), people see them as butch lesbians. And then went they get on T, 99% they'll pass.
There's no unique look to them like non-passing MtFs have.

>>7902199
Can you provide a source for this, cause I know Native Americans had multiple gender roles for men, as long as they fought in times of war.

because at worst a ftm looks like a butch lesbian
at best a mtf are still seen as unattractive and unsightly

>>7902698
> i've always wondered what a FtM hon looks like.
Extremely short, wide hips, baby face, sounds like a teenage boy.

>>7902593
an effect of testosterone is that it increases risk taking, it's why more men get into fights, have more car crashes and so on

a warrior is not much use if they're worried about getting hurt

>>7903356
Savage

>>7912949
>sounds like a teenage boy.
sounds like a girl with a somewhat deepened voice*

Idk if this is a good thread to ask this but here goes:

If you paint a horse with black and white stripes and call it a zebra, people will think you're retarded and deceitful. You may have pulled off a pretty convincing zebra impression too, but that horse will never truly be a zebra, and people will never call it a zebra if they know the truth.

Why then should people consider a man who dresses and acts female a "woman"? (sticking to mtf for simplification). The man can never be a biological woman with our current medical technology, they can only ever be imitation women.

I don't think there's anything wrong with pretending to be a woman, dressing up pretty and acting feminine (I <3 feminine twinks btw), I just dont understand why people should consider trannys as REAL women. By definition, they literally can never be real women unless our medical tech jumps a few hundred (thousand?) years ahead.

>>7902199
>>7902882
This. It's the main reason I am supportive of trans issues, it's great to see the "people" who say that men should be disposable providers and protectors suffer for once.

>>7913423
Literally can't even tell what you're trying to say.

>>7913394
"Female" =/= "woman."

An MtF will never be a "real" female, because her biology did not dictate that she is one. Likewise I (as an FtM) will never be a real male.

But who gives a shit? I don't consult my chromosomes for who I am - most people have never even had theirs tested. I go off my subjective experience, which is based on my brain wiring and how that interacts with my environment.

Why on earth would my SEX (chromosomes, phenotype) be more relevant than my GENDER (innate sexed sense) if the two don't match amongst a highly social species?

>>7913747
>An MtF will never be a "real" female, because her biology did not dictate that she is one. Likewise I (as an FtM) will never be a real male.
One day science may change this. I live in hope.

>>7913774
What? You realize the goalposts would just move again, right? We will never be accepted as "real females", even if womb transplants become a thing, because then "muh chromosomes" etc.

>>7902174
Because straight men get all scared at the idea of being homosexual.

MtF's are to straight men basically disguised homosexuals, and a FtM sleeping with a straight man is "stealth attacking" his heterosexuality, hence the violent reactions.

Women hate MtF's because they seem them as men infiltrating female only spaces, and some attack on womanhood or something.

A female becoming a male does not have that shit.

>>7913780
I don't care about goalposts. I just want to know I'm the same as cis girls.

Once passing is possible for everyone goalposts won't work any more anyway.

>>7903454
>Females are more valuable because 1 of them is equal to 100's of men as far as reproduction is concerned.
How can this change now that it isn't necessary for the community any more?

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Cause you're a bunch of perverts trying to co-opt a gender that's already faced years of struggle to become equal in the western world, only to throw the whole thing back into unsafe ground, and have it stolen back by men.
You're all a bunch of disgusting degenerates.

Also nobody takes FtM seriously so they're seen as more 'cute' (not an issue), whereas you guys are fucking dangerous to women.

>>7919891
Woman who doesn't want her privileges encroached upon or mangina?

>>7902174
Because transwomen are seen as men and that make men address their own homosexual desires and that makes them uncomfortable. "It looks female so I want to fuck it, but wait, it has a dick! No!!! I still want to fuck it! I'm not gay, I'm not gay!"

They deal with that discomfort with hate and bigotry.

Transmen aren't seen as men, thus they aren't seen as a threat.

I've been working in a sex shop and I'm actually dating a transwoman and the stuff I hear sometimes from guys picking through our trans porn section is kind of sick.

"The ones that look like women with dicks scare me/anger me," is something I've heard mulitple times while these guys are looking at films with transwomen mounting cis men.

Given the amount of transwomen that get murdered yearly, I also wonder if they were murdered because of gay panic. It breaks my heart and stresses the fuck out of me when it comes to the safety of my gf and my loved ones.

>>7919940
>Because transwomen are seen as men and that make men address their own homosexual desires and that makes them uncomfortable. "It looks female so I want to fuck it, but wait, it has a dick! No!!! I still want to fuck it! I'm not gay, I'm not gay!"
You're erasing an awful lot of anti-trans hatred by framing it solely as men being transphobic.

>>7920012
Oh, my bad! I'm sorry, I was just zoning in on how I specifically see it. Gosh, absolutely just made myself out to be an asshole. Holy cow, not my intention, but I definitely see how, I am so, so, so sorry. Please excuse that blunder.

A whole spectrum of people can be transphobic, I don't deny that for a second, I just live in a little bubble where I only overtly see it coming from men because... I'm often around men when it comes to overt transphobia.

Although, in online circles, I've seen a lot of transphobia for both MtF and FtM individuals in "radfem" circles (go figure), and I know it can come from cis women quite a bit too. Actually, other jobs I've worked, I've witnessed microagressions towards both. )':

>>7920106
Don't worry, it's a mistake anyone could easily make. I might have made it myself but I'd just been reading >>7880457 so feminist transphobia was fresh in my memory.

>Actually, other jobs I've worked, I've witnessed microagressions towards both. )':
What kinds of things? It's accounts like yours from the sex shop that let people without the same first-hand encounters to be aware of the kinds of things people think.

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most people who bitch about ftms are mtfs and cis women. this is because ftms eagerly discard everything mtfs want most and cis women prize: femininity and female physical traits, female social roles like "daughter", "wife", "girlfriend", "aunt" and go for what mtfs hate and women reject: masculinity, male traits, to be a son/husband/boyfriend/uncle, to be a man in general. ftms are proud to be men even if they're short or have a big ass or feel insecure. mtfs are proud to be women I think but they often have issues about it because they aren't confident or whatever. it's probably scary, people are very shitty towards them. there are cis women who have masculine traits (tall, broad shoulders, deep voice, thick brow, even some facial hair) but not as many as the number of cis men who have feminine traits (short, moobs, fat, soft voice), which makes it hard for mtfs to blend with cis women without getting treated like an exotic creature. they also have the idea that ftms never get disowned/thrown out by family/abused as children/raped/bullied/threatened/stalked and that ftm transition is super easy and super fast and perfect and that testosterone isn't a scheduled drug that is difficult to get, ftms paper trail never come back to bite them, ftms have a ton of support from everyone, shit like that which is just not true

this is a very feminine reaction imo. mtfs do act like women. just a lot of them seem to pick up the shitty feminine qualities first and become catty insecure jealous bitches until they acclimate and find their confidence and calm the hell down

>>7920157
>this is because ftms eagerly discard everything mtfs want most and cis women prize: femininity and female physical traits, female social roles like "daughter", "wife", "girlfriend", "aunt" and go for what mtfs hate and women reject: masculinity, male traits, to be a son/husband/boyfriend/uncle, to be a man in general. ftms are proud to be men even if they're short or have a big ass or feel insecure. mtfs are proud to be women I think but they often have issues about it because they aren't confident or whatever.
Is that restricted to the more man-hating MtFs? I'm an MtF and I can understand FtMs being proud to be men and wanting the social roles I reject. They aren't for me, but they are still admirable.

I do have issues about being a women and I'm proud of the kind of woman I can be but not of being a woman in itself the way I think cis men and FtMs should be of being men.

What do you mean about the FtM paper trail?

>>7920131
Well, most recently, in the sex shop job, we're having a ladies night, and I've heard plenty of """jokes""" along the lines of "so, can men who """"identify"""" as women come in?" since our cheeky advertisement says "no men allowed".

Admittedly, in the sex shop, the transphobia is almost exclusive to transwomen.

I worked at a department store for awhile. We had a transwoman who would often browse, try on items, then leave. Some of my co-workers would refuse to help her because of this, and would refuse to help other transwomen because they considered it a waste of time (we worked commission). There would also be a lot of whispering and giggling in the stockroom when we had customers that weren't overtly cis. Transmen or folks that weren't overtly feminine were treated very awkwardly by my co-workers and kind of... sub-human. They would half-ass help them to get to customers they believed would be "easier" to help.

I'll be honest, a lot of the transphobia I've seen has been geared more towards transwomen than transmen, but that may be because I've had more experiences with transwomen. Although, one of my classmates is a transman who's Mother is the head professor of our department. She refuses to refer to him with male pronouns, thus the entire staff follows suit. It seems like transmen are thrown shade that's condescending, along the lines of "you're not a man, I won't treat you like a man." It seems like they're not taken seriously, IDK how to phrase it.

Older women have misgendered my gf then gotten exasperated, using the infamous "he/she/it" bull.

When my boss at the sex shop first met her, she essentially said "it's nice to see a pretty one, the ones we often get here are raggedy"... So backwards compliments.

Oh, my male co-worker at sex shop thought I was dating an transman (never met gf, don't talk about her much at work) and essentially said "oh well it's still a girl that just identifies as a guy, that's okay."

>>7920413
>along the lines of "so, can men who """"identify"""" as women come in?" since our cheeky advertisement says "no men allowed".
I see this sort of comment a lot in other places online but I never thought of it as a form of transphobia.

>Transmen or folks that weren't overtly feminine were treated very awkwardly by my co-workers and kind of... sub-human.
Sub-human in what way?

It sucks for your classmate. Can't he complain to the college about the staff?

>"oh well it's still a girl that just identifies as a guy, that's okay."
I wonder what they would say about a girl who said she was dating a trans woman.

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Transmen pass more easily and are fewer in number.

>>7920499
>I see this sort of comment a lot in other places online but I never thought of it as a form of transphobia.

I guess I see it as transphobia due to it coming across as "a man is a man and a woman is a woman, stop pretending".

>Sub-human in what way?

Maybe sub-human is a little strong, but I kind of notice that transmen I've met are treated like children with flighty dreams. This kid wants to be a dragon when they grow up = this little girl wants to be a boy when they grow up. They're not taken seriously and kind of treated like kids?

>It sucks for your classmate. Can't he complain to the college about the staff?

My buddy asked him Mom about it and apparently they have an "agreement" but it's hard to watch and witness sometimes.

>I wonder what they would say about a girl who said she was dating a trans woman

I mean, that would be me. I'm pretty sure it would be "why not just date a man" which, whew, I've heard a few times.

>>7920581
>I mean, that would be me. I'm pretty sure it would be "why not just date a man" which, whew, I've heard a few times.
Oh, I thought you were a guy and the comment was saying that at least your relationship was heterosexual.

>>7920694
Oop, sorry if that sounded like I was being condescending to you, btw. I realize I didn't state that at all throughout this so I was just clarifying, not trying to be a dick.

It's weird because dude co-worker is usually a wonderful dude, he's just... surprisingly backwards on some things.

Can I ask y'all a question though, when you're in situations where you could easily nip some transphobia in the bud, what do you do? I regrettably just stare down folks that make passive-aggressive comments towards my gf because I don't want to cause a ruckus, but there's been instances where folks need a good clocking or need to be set straight. I'm afraid I could endanger her more than I could myself, buuuuuuuuuuuut

>>7902174
Misogyny.

Next question.

>>7920727
It didn't, don't worry!

>It's weird because dude co-worker is usually a wonderful dude, he's just... surprisingly backwards on some things.
Everyone has their things. But as long as they're reasonable they can at least be open-minded to people with other ideas.

>when you're in situations where you could easily nip some transphobia in the bud, what do you do?
I don't think there's one universal answer. It depends on lots of things. Will you change their minds? Do you want to be in a combative mood afterwards or just forget about it? Can you spare the time? Will you see the people again? Are either of you actually in danger of violence?

In your case I'd say talk about it with your gf. Any time it happens, ask yourselves questions like those discuss with each other your own and the other's response. Then you can find the reactions that work both for you both.

>>7920807
>Misandry
FTFY

>>7902174
Religion mostly has already culturally painted a view and males and shamed femminity, also they disordered sex as a shameful thing and confused trans as a sexual thing even more so because males females dont get this treatment.

>>7920896
I remember reading accounts of mtf/gay people growing up in eastern europe where the USSR had been. They didn't need religion to hate femme males, it was a natural impulse to them. At least when religion is there you can make the argument that it is an irrational conviction.

That doesn't mean that religion isn't responsible, just that it isn't necessarily so and that removing religion might not be an immediate solution.

>>7921339
Still wrong monotheism has already set a foundation against mtfs it doesn't need to be present the damage is done and its cultural and if you ask them why they hate, they don't really know and just use borderline ignorant arguments.

>>7921649
>monotheism has already set a foundation against mtfs
That's like blaming chivalry for feminism.

>>7921704
Chivalry is a good thing though, women missing certain rights is what caused femmism not guys treating women socially like goddesses.

>>7902174
Effeminacy is considered wrong.

>>7922520
So much for chivalry being a good thing >>7921983

>>7913836
Think this through. Even if medical technology lets us become biologically female within our lifetimes, we will still have 20 years of our lives (at the very LEAST, for those who are still young by the time such technology is developed) lived as males. We will never get to have normal girl childhoods. We will always have memories of being male. The only way to truly feel comfortable after becoming biologically identical to a cis woman in all but chromosomes would be medically-administered brainwashing to make you believe you were always female, probably coupled with moving to a new home and somehow getting your family and friends on board to support the delusion of normality, which would be difficult at best and kind of unethical at worst. It's pretty much impossible for us ever to feel normal. It's definitely impossible for us to ever actually be normal.

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>>7922660
I just want to be a cis lesbian so badly. That is what I always felt I was even since I was a weee ladass (lad+lass or something)

I feel like my whole life would have turned out so drastically different if I had been.

Seriously. I thought I was doing better. I am like 17 months into hrt and like close to 2.5 years since I came out. The gap between me and cis women is still there. There are a few moments where it doesn't feel as bad but most of the time it is soul crushing. Even when I am home alone.

Make it stop. Or like legitimate how do I live with myself. I am just at a low spot. I even have a cis bi gf and a somewhat ok job for now.

Maybe if I got a job I was REALLY good at things would feel different. In so many ways I feel like I am hanging from a thread.

>>7922699
I feel all of this. I'm 2.5 years on HRT and pretty much passable. I have a wonderful long term girlfriend (cis bi) who says she wants to marry me. My mom has even said that she wants to give me some financial support when the time comes for me to get surgery (hopefully not too long after I finish my bachelors next year). I don't know if it ever gets better, and I'm really scared that it won't. I have all these good things around me like my girlfriend and supportive family and no serious financial stress, but my dysphoria is still crippling for me. I'm very depressed, feel anxious about leaving the house, and have no real friends except for my girlfriend, her childhood best friends, and our Dungeons and Dragons group. I'm worried that things won't get better.

>>7922699
>supportive family and no serious financial stress
>>7922722
I don't have this part either. My family doesn't accept me and it makes things really hard because I used to be close with them.

>feel anxious about leaving the house
Sammmme! I have had a few bad experiences at the grocery store even though I pass pretty well there is always the odd ball that sets off the chain reaction or something. Working from home I have begun to feel is an excuse. I only leave the house like 3/7 days a week.

I had 6 guys who I was SUPER close with growing up and never imagined anything getting between us, but shortly after I moved to a new province they slowly began to drift. Now because of something none of them will explain to me none of them are talking to me really and that hurts too.

I have made a couple friends out here, and at least one of them is a keeper/really cool. I have been sort of absorbed into the gfs work friend circle but it doesn't feel the same. It all helps but I still chat with other transwomen from home who started HRT around the same time as me and it is SO depressing. Or rather they are/add to it. For every cool trans woman there are so many who are totally uncouth.

My gf is always telling me I am really cute, and stuff but its just hard to internalize, and my reflection makes me flirt with suicide, even though it is decent. I don't fucking know. (I know I will probably never actually kill myself because I can try and find other things/distractions to live for but its all SO hard)

>>7922660
I do envy normal girl childhoods but I wouldn't give up mine. I like who I am I just don't like not being a cis girl too.

I don't want to feel like a normal girl. I'd be comfortable being exactly the same person just with my body female.

>>7922809
You and I differ there, then. If I could flip a switch and be a completely normal cis girl, I would do it in a heartbeat.

>>7902174
Because MtF's reject the one thing that makes them unique - their penis. Why would any straight guy want a fake vagina when they can just go fuck a real vagina? Why even have a fake vagina if you can't have babies with it? The demand for chicks with dicks is massive, and that's how they're seen, not as boys with boobs, but chicks with dicks. Yet transwomen can't accept that if those men saw them as boys with boobs they wouldn't have sex with them. What lgbt don't get about straight men is that their sexuality isn't just about the physical make up of the person they're fucking, but also what gender they identify with.

If there was a shapeshifter named Adam who turned into a hot 100% biological female only for the sake of sex with straight guys, they wouldn't do it. But if Brittany only changed into a man when she had sex with women straight dudes would fuck her.

SRS for FtM's is basically useless, so none of them get it and fill in the dude with a pussy niche so everyone likes them. When we can finally give women working penises and make dickgirls real everyone will be totally g with trannies. Until then they should just learn to live with their qt feminine penises that all the straight boys love.

>>7922983
>Why would any straight guy want a fake vagina when they can just go fuck a real vagina?
because
>their sexuality isn't just about the physical make up of the person they're fucking, but also what gender they identify with.

>>7922660
>It's pretty much impossible for us ever to feel normal. It's definitely impossible for us to ever actually be normal.
This is why you stop caring about being normal. Perhaps it's because I pass, but I've stopped caring about whether or not I'm a "real" girl--for the most part. There's some stuff I'm upset about, like never being able to mother children, and sometimes I feel like the lack of a biological vagina (have benis, don't plan on removing) inhibits me from having the kind of relationship I want.

But more and more lately, I've been accepting that I simply will never get to know what it's like to be raised as a girl. I'll never have the experience of growing up as a little girl in elementary school. I'll never have the experience of beginning a puberty that didn't cause me terror and revulsion. I'll never go through high school as a real person, able to get real friends, and have real experiences as a teenage girl. I'll never go through undergrad, developing deeper friendships and finding myself in my independence as a burgeoning woman.

But I'm the me I am. I'm still pretty young, so I can have young adult experiences I never would have otherwise. I already have. Lived more life last year than I had in every other year of my life, put together.

I feel "normal". I'm not normal--I'm someone born in a male body that passes as female, on hrt, doing a voice, feeling like a real human bean for once--but it's not a bad thing to be abnormal. If you come to accept it, it's kind of nice to have been given such a different life. It becomes one you cherish once/if anything good ever happens.

>>7923067
How old are you? What are the woman young adult experiences you want and have already had?

>>7922996
The second quote is suggesting that male heterosexuality is about both body and identity, not just identity. The rhetorical question is pointing out that in almost all cases a real vagina is superior to one made by plastic surgery.

>>7923079
my dream boyfriend prefers my personality to that of a cis girl so that's why he'd rather dick my plastic surgery vag to a cis one.

>>7923079
>plastic surgery
It isn't though. Its a re arrangement of the person flesh.

There is nothing plastic or fake about a transwomans vagina.

>>7923094
it doesn't even lubricate...

>>7923067
>as female, on hrt, doing a voice, feeling like a real human bean for once--but it's not a bad thing to be abnormal. If you come to accept it, it's kind of nice to have been given such a different life. It becomes one you cherish once/if anything good ever happens.

This is the exact attitude that everyone wants MtF's to have. Once you pass, you're woman enough for the rest of us. It's a shame that you can't experience growing up as a girl, or get pregnant, and yes you might have some experiences which *real girls* don't have, but that's the best we can give you, and we all love you for what you are.

>>7922699
>>7922722
>>7922798
>>7923067
Here to chime in also. 17mo HRT and passable. A lot of the stuff in these posts say what I struggle to say myself. I've got friends now, but things always make me feel separate. I feel like a living shadow. Family isn't supportive but leaves me alone about it. I have a good job, but it's not enough to save up for SRS ever. The more I pass the more this reality bothers me. I'm only attracted to women and my spouse turned out to be FtM. I love him to death and couldn't bring myself to abandon him, but deep down it stings knowing the things I find attractive about him he wants to be rid of forever and the ways he's changing I dislike. I could deal with it if it wasn't a sexless relationship. I feel like a doll, may look pretty/cute but no one finds actually attractive. I don't feel attractive to anyone, not even my spouse. I see lesbian couples around every so often and feel some part of me just crush into pulp out of shame. What will I ever do if he doesn't need me anymore? What if the drift gets worse and we fall apart? What then?

Life is normal and I'm better, but it's hopeless and empty feeling.

>>7923067
>>7923116
what makes it nice/worth cherishing?

few transgirls seem to that attitude.

>>7923092
So your dream boyfriend loves you because you're transgender, but since it's not about your body they aren't a chaser?

Aside from that I can sort of see that happening to be honest, but I don't think it will be fulfilling. Preferring a transwoman's personality of that of a cisgirl's is just the product of generalisations that don't exist in the real world. Your casual sexual encounters will only be with those who can't find a cisgirl to be with, but when you do fall in love they will love you for who you are (which includes being trans-gendered) not because they think transgirls have superior personalities.

>>7923094
Plastic surgery doesn't mean they actually use plastic, the word plastic just means to change your tissue. A skin transplant is a plastic surgery, lipo-suction is a plastic surgery, SRS is a plastic surgery.

The issue is that SRS is a risky, imperfect and expensive surgery and the only people who will want you to have it done are simply insecure about their own sexuality.

Anyone who loves you would rather you have a penis that can experience sexual pleasure than a messed up vagina that doesn't.

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>>7923123
>>7923116
>>7923067
Different anon but im wondering how others continue too. Like I'll have some good times, I have a great GF who really loves me and im slowly but surely turning into the person I want to be. But still there's so many things I'll never have experienced, things I'll never do and all that jazz and things will never just be plain good. It feels like I will always struggle.

When I was little I just wanted to be like my mom, and I wanted to grow up and be the best mom ever to my little angels that I know I created but that will almost surely never happen, chances are like 99.9999999% I'll get my biggest dream(s) fulfilled. Just having the pure, motherly experience of giving birth, like I MADE this person I'll never get to experience.
I'll never get to experience growing up as a girl. All that it entails, even if it's shitty and it's not like I put it on a pedestal but I just wasted so many years doing nothing not even being myself, I've spent about 90% of my life living a lie.
I MIGHT get enough money to get a neo-vagina but even then it will not be the same. I will never have just been born with it and feel how it really is to have one (not that I don't enjoy the sex I have but the feelings are always there).
And I'll probably never have enough money to get the other surgeries I feel I need to sufficently pass, and even if I did I would still not just have been born beatiful and im kind of just "faking it".
I'll never just be any other girl on the street... I'll always be something less. A cheap imitation to most people. And while im very much accepted in my circles I mean even if they really understood everything and everyone knew what it entails to be trans I work so hard to just be myself in a fundamental way that 99.99% of the general population can just take for given/granted and then when I work so hard im still less than the rest.

I will continue to see what the future brings, and im sorry im so negative but I just need to vent.

>>7923152
>So your dream boyfriend loves you because you're transgender, but since it's not about your body they aren't a chaser?
exactly!

>but I don't think it will be fulfilling. Preferring a transwoman's personality of that of a cisgirl's is just the product of generalisations that don't exist in the real world.
really it's just the personality i want to have that i imagine him falling for. like you said about loving me for who i am.

>>7923156
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RGBJG82Q5g

I feel your pain anon. Here, listen to this song with me. Let's at least enjoy some mutual understanding of something no one else can ever understand about us.

>>7923071
I'm almost 23 now, started HRT in the final semester of college when I was almost 22--transitioned openly when I moved out of state in the summer.

I have long-distance boyfriend (not a chaser, super lucky). I've gone to an art museum with him and talked about different pieces and took in the place together. Walked through the park, breathed the air, felt the snow crunch under my feet as I realized how surreal life had become. I've hung out with a group of 20 somethings drinking, watching shitty movies, having fun, talking about nerd shit, etc. I've gotten to lose my virginity and have a passionate and fun sex life with a guy I really like. I've also been hit on awkwardly by dudes, approached really aggressively in a Walgreens by a huge guy who explicitly wanted to fug, and have had my opinion not really paid attention to by people I don't respect (honestly didn't expect this one to happen so much).

I want to develop more of a life for myself outside my bf, though. I'm too dependent on him for me having things happen. Otherwise I'm a NEET lately, but I desperately want to do better. Just dealing with a lot of really horrible shit that happened to me last year. Not gonna lie though, obviously being in a relationship with a great person helps.

>>7923123
Life before transition didn't feel like real life. It felt like being in uniform at work, but never going home. At best. I finally feel human. Not always, but sometimes is enough for someone who used to have never.

>>7923120
I'm sorry to hear that. My approach has always been that if things drift apart, they weren't meant to be. But it's also why I've been alone most of my life.

>>7923156
It sucks. I hate it. But needing to strive so hard to be yourself, idk, you're more you than many people get to be, in a way. I know so many aimless people who don't know anything about themselves. I have to believe the perspective of a trans person is valuable. We're worth something.

>>7923163
My life is even comfy most of the times, although abit of a struggle but I have my GF and we love eachother so much but the world just feels so fucked and in-just when I can't even take my gender and sex for granted like almost everyone else on earth can. *Sigh* things could be worse atleast that's the only way I can comfort myself.

>>7923123
First of all it's healthy. The hard thing about transgendered people is that they can't have it all, but most people don't anyway. I think of it like the Rock

The Rock is only 5'9 and wears 6 lifts to appear taller. He isn't actually taller, but it doesn't really matter and he shouldn't let it get to him. He should just be happy doing what he does, particularly because everyone else does. He shouldn't kill himself because he isn't taller, or let the lack of better plastic surgery get him down.

But the reason why transgendered people should be cherished is because they are unique. They have experiences of hormones, sexuality and gender that the rest of us will never have, and thus give us new knowledge that's otherwise unobtainable.

It also means that they have the capacity to have their own personalities because of those experiences (not that they all do though). Some of them end up incredibly resilient when they come to terms with the fact that they won't have the "full experiences", and when they do they become awesome people.

Apart from that they're sexual unicorns who can make as much as doctors from sex work because the demand for them is so high, but I don't think that's as important.

>>7923182
I feel you on having your opinion discounted a lot. I get flat-out talked over or ignored entirely by people I know can hear me. But life really does feel surreal, everything is so vivid where once it was like an endless grey and static. Like being an observer to someone else living a life that wasn't yours. Then suddenly you're actually breathing.

I'm just scared of being alone again. We're not the same as we were, he says it to my face even. Where once we were one, we're drifting. He says I am cold, distant, and anger easily these days. I've made it clear so many times I'm only so agitated because I feel lonely and need at least some kind of romance. How am I supposed to feel? I come home from work, sit on the couch, stare at him, and flatly say "I feel like I can't ask you to cuddle on the couch with me for a little while." and he just kinda shrugs and says he's busy with what he's working on.
It's just...I know I'm cold and testy, but he's also becoming kind of a jerk and doing things that get on my nerves and says disrespectful shit to me I'd never say to him. I'm sorry for rambling about this here, I'm just venting. I'm scared and I have no one to talk to. I love him so much and I don't know how to stop what's happening.

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>>7923182

I know what you mean we sound very very much alike... My uniform or rather mask as I use as expression was so bad now I just feel why did I even bother. I didn't live for a second and went to a few parties and did other MINOR teenage stuff but like, I was always hollow, just pretending to make everyone else "happy" and to not make a fuss. Then I kinda understood that it doesn't ever get better by not being myself. People/family friends didn't really appreciate that I was a guy and even though it made a few of them uncomfortable and I lost a few friends im in a WHOLE better place now. I might be NEET and only go to parties rarely now but it's so much better just being around people now that im myself, I can appreciate things I do because im doing it as me and especially now that im pretty passing and im not looked at wierdly so much. The feeling of just letting that mask go was so incredibly liberating.

>>7923205
I feel you on the finally breathing, I feel just the same!

Anon that sounds really sad, I hope it turns out for the better for you. If that means you stay with him or you have to get on with life. You have to be completely honest with him. If you need more romance and cuddles, being close and "one" again you need to tell him. Make him understand how you feel even if some of it may hurt to hear. It's better to be honest and then you guys finding out it just plain doesn't work and move on than for both of you to continue being miserable and if you really love him then you should only make it clear that you bring all of this up because you're afraid you're gonna lose him if thing's don't improve. I'd rather take the risk of love getting better by being honest than just hope things get better by themselves and then you're already drifted too far apart for you to salvage it. Godspeed anon! I wish you the best of luck!

>>7923156
You're doing a lot better than you think.

Faking it is still making it. You don't really know what most people think. In many ways you're better than the rest, it's just extremely hard to believe it in your situation.

You'll make it.

>>7902174
CARA STOP

>>7923205
Being scared to be alone again is a bit of an issue, because then it sort of begs the question of whether you're with him because you love him, or because you just don't want to be alone. It's not fair to either of your if it's the latter.

>>7923152
>Anyone who loves you would rather you have a penis that can experience sexual pleasure than a messed up vagina that doesn't.


From everything I have read this is bullshit though because everyone still feels sexual sensation etc.

>>7923228
Its been many months since I had sex with my girlfriend last. I feel this so much too. I love her, but I also realize I feel dependent on her emotionally, and the thought of dating right now is more than I can handle.

>>7923230
You can work on being less dependent while in the relationship. Just try to make her effort. When she's busy make yourself busy. There's no use wasting your energy thinking about and doing stuff for her that she doesn't do for you.

When you make a life for yourself you'll see that it isn't so bad being alone. It's only when you're okay with being by yourself that you can really love someone else, because dependency and neediness cheapen the relationship.

At some stage we all need to learn to be okay with being alone.

>>7923217
Thanks anon that was really nice :)
I think I just wish I didn't have to "fake" it. Like for me I am myself, and finally true but for everyone else im just in a fundamental way faking it. Like the "man" I was before THEN I was actually faking it, I just did what everyone wanted me to do but now that I am myself, and im a girl suddenly me being true is me being fake, y'know? Even if I passed 100% and that was me, people would still only see it in the perspective that I was true before and now im not in a way. It's not that this stuff bothers me most days really, the passing and being a real grill is kinda one thing, but I kinda still naively cling to my idea that im gonna be a mother some day in the 0.000001% chance science gets that far and I just can't bring myself to let go of it. It's all I wanted before, and that's like the only way I can come up with me having a truly happy ending. That hurts me the most I think. And there's so sooo much triggering stuff for that everywhere, even my cis GF gets triggered (she doesn't really want to be pregnant, like ever she thinks).

>>7923216
I'll keep trying. I know I'm partly to blame for all of this. He just...gets so irritated when I bring this up. I know it's seated in self-loathing and similar self-destructive things and it hurts seeing how much it's hurting him. I've brought these things up and when all is said and done I still get nothing more than what amounts to "I don't know why". I don't want him to think he's abusive or neglectful, am I really just that needy?

>>7923228
It puts me in a really tough spot. I love him to death, even if we split apart I'll still love him and want to be his friend no matter what. But I'm also terrified of being alone, just like my mother ended up. I don't believe I'm attractive to anyone, for reasons I said earlier, so it's hard for me to not just think that if I don't do something to fix this then it's all over. Then there's another layer in that he's dependent on me, I couldn't bear to leave someone knowing that they'll drown without me. Then there's another layer in that he's becoming more and more manly and knows I'm not into men. I've tried my best but it shows in little ways. But that wouldn't matter to me, I love who he is and when he's attentive I'm just so deliriously happy I never want to leave his arms. But obviously he's not enough. It's hard to love him even, he won't sit still for me to give him attention and gets irritated with too much touching/cuddling. I'm tired of being rebuffed constantly and starting to become angry and spiteful over it. Like, goddamn I just want a fucking hug is that so much to ask? Can I have a kiss? Can we hold each other for more than ten seconds? Can you hold still and let me love you? I just want to love him so bad and he won't even let me. I don't enjoy rough-housing, I don't want that I just want a gentle touch. Like he's getting more and more like dudes show love to a friend than to a lover.

>>7923258
This is why I feel like he doesn't want me deep down. I feel like he's going to meet someone and suddenly realize how -not- into me he seems. I feel like he's going to meet a dude and realize that's what he really wants. He doesn't really like socializing with women, and I suspect because I'm becoming more of one it's driving us apart. It doesn't help I don't understand guys, and it shows in that I don't understand what's going on with him anymore or why he thinks the way he does. It's not that I don't love him. Even things fell apart and I somehow romanced someone else, I'd still want to support him and make sure he's taken care of.

>>7923258
>I couldn't bear to leave someone knowing that they'll drown without me.
This is the case with my gf too. She is very financially dependent on me and that makes it even harder.

>Like he's getting more and more like dudes show love to a friend than to a lover.

I feel this too. It is slightly different for me because my gf is bi, but I can't shake that things have changed. We used to have REALLY intense passionate sex. I was much more of a switch back then too. But now that sex has completely dropped off the map, the love is there but it feels more like we are friends living together who cuddle and hug/kiss occasionally than we were before.

I can't shake that the reason is that she isn't as attracted to the girl me as she was to my old self presenting male. I have even brought this up with her before a few times, but she is quite dismissive of it and says she loves me more than ever and thinks I make a way cuter girl etc.

When I ask why we don't have sex she says because she is too tired or too busy. She was just as busy before though and that never stopped her. The fact of the matter is if you go like 5 months without trying to initiate sex with your partner the message your sending them is you are not interested.

I do feel her love for me is genuine but I can't shake her codependance being the reason she is with me too. Riddle out the sex issue.

I am going to talk with her about it all again tomorrow as its been like a month since I brought it up.

It's just hard.

>>7923265
>the love is there but it feels more like we are friends living together who cuddle and hug/kiss occasionally than we were before.
Is that a bad relationship to have though?

>>7923265
Yeah, this sounds extremely similar to what I'm agonizing over. Even the part with
>loves me more than ever and thinks I make a way cuter girl etc.
this I've heard those exact words. But it doesn't feel true because the actions don't line up with the words.

And yeah, there's just so many excuses as to why nothing ever happens. I hadn't thought of exactly why I feel certain he's not sexually interested in me but the 5 months thing is pretty apt. Although in my case it's been years.

I feel ashamed of myself for even thinking that if he didn't depend on me he'd split, because I can truthfully say I don't believe that to be true but that awful part of you that gets to you when you're confused and unhappy whispers doubts like that.

Good luck anon.

>>7923258
It's certainly a tough position to be in anon. You guys have to come to terms with your neediness for eachother and somehow come to terms with you guys either being incompatible or you will both work towards making things better together. It definitely get's complicated when dependency and neediness is the matter from personal experience. My GF was getting very scared with how dependent and needy I was to her, and that was through a tough spot so she was getting the idea that I didn't really love her as much as I was dependent on her. That was wrong for me atleast, I just got/get incredibly dependent since im so much in love, maybe that sounds familiar or not I don't know.

You also have to like come to terms with him changing, just as much as he has to do the same to you. If you truly love him for who he is, like deep inside do you really care if he turns into a man? Do you still love him as much? If you have problems coming to terms with his transition it might just be best to let go because if you don't love him as much as a man as before, if that is the issue then I don't think it will work. Same for the other way around for his sake. It's okay to be friends if the love is platonic, if there is no romance between you it's better to just support eachother as friends than for both of you to be miserable. Just seeing from what you wrote you guys seem to be losing the romantic part of the relationship and that is really sad but you might be better of both of you trying really hard to understand eachother, being perfectly honest and work together on if you are compatible or not, not only now but in consideration to the future you's too.
>>7923261
I think most of that stems from insecurities or maybe not. I and we had alot ALOT of that in the start and well into the realtionship but what you're talking about is very familiar in a way. You just both have to be honest I think and work out if this is what you REALLY want.

---->

>>7923275 here

>>7923265
I had to work abit through the same things with my also bi GF, and we've had some pretty sexless times but never that long here. I get what you're saying here " the love is there but it feels more like we are friends living together who cuddle and hug/kiss occasionally than we were before" we had a period that was like that and in your defense against >>7923270 I also felt kinda shitty. Like yeah some might want to have a cuddles only relationship but if sex has been great and very passionate before, and you really love the other person you start second guessing everything and get super insecure about stuff, especially if the other part doesn't "love me the same" anymore and it's a really shitty feeling all in all. We eventually got back to fugging but there's still some times when it gets rare again. For us it was more that both of us were overworked and depressed so yeah it might be that OR something bad. You should talk thoroughly about that since it's causing you so much distress (I know that feel) and just get to the bottom of it, and be perfectly honest and be clear that this comes from a place of love.

I wish you both the greatest of luck hope I've been of any help!

>>7923275
I'm really really worried that I'm just overtly dependent emotionally or just being emotionally fragile and needy and that I'm going to ruin everything and hurt him over this.

I don't really care that he's transitioning if he could still make me feel loved and validated too. But his personality is changing already and I'm really wondering if this is him at 6 months will it only emphasize more in two years as he fully realizes his inner self? Is he going to be the same person?

I've never loved anyone, he's literally the only person I've ever felt such a deep love for. I feel so awful for missing what he's transitioning away from. I feel awful for also wishing he'd just take the lead or something, I don't know.

I'm going to try again. I'm terrified and I don't think it's going to do anything but make him hate himself more, but I have to do something. This is eating me up.

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how did this become such a good thread?

reading everyones' experiences with being trans here, its helpful for me right now. Im at a place where I really dont know what to do. I've been repressing since puberty. broke down and started HRT a year ago. then stopped once it all felt too real. Now im 25 years old and wondering if I've just been wasting my time away. like a feeling of extreme urgency, that i need to transition right NOW in order to not waste any more of my life getting older as a male. but then the other side of me is way too afraid to jump in. I'll be a hon. I'll lose my friends. Theres no way i could show my face at work without feeling deathly embarrassed. I just dont know what to do. all I know is that I cant see myself ever feeling content with either option.

>>7923295
Anon just be careful, you don't want to rush into "the talk" before you're ready. I have said some things to my GF that came out all wrong because I was " overtly dependent emotionally or just being emotionally fragile and needy" so you just need to take a step back, assess the situation and your feelings. What really helped for me was to write a document to her where I explain my feelings and why I feel what I feel, and how I want things to be, I didn't think writing would help me honestly, but it helped me really articulate myself in an accurate matter and gave me room to be honest but also reassure her that I loved her. Just remember that it should come from a loving place and that you take it easy. Being perfectly honest is alot of work, and it's very easy to get caught up in the heat of the moment during a face to face talk with the one you love and I just wasn't very good at keeping my shit together then but things got infinitely better once we got on a good honest talk and was on the same level and was able to talk about these really hard things in a well formulated way.

I also was in that boat you describe, she's my first and only partner ever and it's incredibly deep for me. But you seem abit conflicted as to what the future brings and that's perfectly understandable. You have to dig deep in your heart for the answer I think, and it's hard when a person is changing, but so are you so it goes both ways. In what ways do you mean he taking the lead? As in daily day to day life things or romance/love things or talking about feels? Usually things just happen but if things aren't good between partners you both may neglect just talking about things, and eachother but someone just has to be the brave one and talk about things even though it hurts because how else are things going to get better, honestly.

Good luck anon, wish you guys the very best!

>>7923288
Thanks for the help/support it is appreciated! :D

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>>7923316
I have no idea haha

I've been in your shoes sorta, some time ago. 23 years old here and 2 years into transition. I might have some things to help you
This is the most important one I think, and it's just: are you okay being male? Not just now but in a year, 5 years, 10 years and all the way until your deathbed, would you be okay with that? Could you go on living that way?
If you think repression is going to work if you're truely trans then I wish you the best of luck, but personally I couldn't continue on with my life living like a lie all day everyday of my life. I had the same urgency once the veil dropped, but I thought it through if that is what I really, TRULY wanted in life and you have to do the same.
You might be a hon and you might not. It's always awkward in the start or you just might go the "boymode" route until you're comfortable.
So then think about it, even if you ended up a hon, would you transition? It's scary I know but in my way I just said I'd rather shoot for the stars, I might fall trying and just end it THEN because to me, if I didn't even TRY I could just like give up and kill myself then and there. I knew it was gonna be a REAL struggle and boy it hasn't always been easy but like the feeling I have now as described in >>7923216 (first part mostly) yes I have it hard, it's tough to be trans and I definitely have bad days. But im ME and im finally living, none of the other people in the world should be an issue cause now atleast im not a hollow person just living a lie, always having to hold up a mediocre mask so as to not be in anyone's way or make a fuss it's so freeing now and I definitely look back with regret that I didn't just transition sooner and just be honest with myself and the world.
I lost a few friends but to be honest I didn't care since if they didn't want to see the real me then they could gtfo. I still have a few great friends but they're on the other side of the country so eh.
>>7923328
Glad I could! ;)

Estrogen is weaker than Testosterone, hence the reason why body changes happen quicker and more effectively in ftms as opposed to mtfs. Conversely, when it comes to bottom surgery, ftms have a harder road in getting a fully functional penis, than a mtf getting a vagina.

I mean, I never really thought about it, but what do ftms do when the testosterone makes them horny? Do you guys insert stuff into your pussy? For me being on estrogen, I have not even been horny at all. Not a wink of sexual frustration. However when I had a working dick, loathe I was to "use and abuse" it, I wanked like 5 times a week.

>>7903454
>It doesn't matter anymore
Wish that were true. Most populations/communities that are predominantly male can expect higher violence and crime rates than a 50/50 or predominantly female population/community.

India and China, for example, are pretty worried about their heavily male population, and the difference is less than a percent (there is a shortage of around 100 million women in asia due to child abuse and infanticide). They're worried about backlash from angry violent young men who can't get wives.
>current_year
>still being lead around by their cocks
Men are so pathetic, honestly, why are they still a thing?

read whipping girl by julia serano its pretyy decent

>>7923417
I've gotten really sexually frustrated. I'm so horny, but the thought of getting naked in front of someone makes me want to die.

Women masturbate with the clit though, not usually with vaginal penetration. It adds to the wank, and I do use dildos, but i always hate myself afterwards. Most of the time it isn't worth it. At least when I'm masturbating normally I can pretend it's just a tiny, useless micropenis. Better than having a vagina.

>>7923522
>but i always hate myself afterwards. Most of the time it isn't worth it.

Heh that sums up my experience on T too, oh well E surely has some downsides too

1. More MTFs than FTMs.
2. MTFs have been more represented in media whereas FTMs have been almost invisible; leading to 99.9% of people immediately thinking of men transitioning to women when "transgender" is mentioned.
Its unfortunate and I feel bad for trans women (when they aren't trying to make trans men feel bad for having it "easier")
>>7923417
It depends on the guy. I'm not very dysphoric about my genitals personally but I don't insert anything. Just rub.

>>7923498
Ew.

Ftm is fucking stupid...

Nobody has a problem with females acting masculine.. There is no reason to do it.

Mtf however makes sense. You want to be treated like a girl and why wouldn't you?

I feel people think I am masculine just because I am male. I also feel really awkward when trying to act girly.

For example in class I once said "she is so pretty I wish I looked like that"

And people just laugh and think I'm kidding... I don't even act that manly but people still talk to me like I am manly because of the way I look.

I'd probably have to wear pink and talk in a gay guy voice just to be treated as almost a girl.


Females can just cut their hair short and wear jeans and a t shirt and they are no longer seen as girly.

>>7923750
I don't think you understand what gender dysphoria is..

>>7923757
How so?

I am constantly being put into male gender roles just because I look like a man and have hairy knuckles.

Pointless to shave the hair because I'm half italian and it grows too fast and gets pricky as fuck.

Anyway like when something needs lifting people always say

>We need a big strong tough guy like you to help us lift things..

Yeah great, insult me and then place me into a gender role I don't want. I never chose to be male asshole.. But I don't say that I jsut do it because people will judge me if I rant about gender roles or how I didn't choose my appearance.

Then sometimes you even consider turning yourself into an ugly hon just to avoid it but you will probably face things even worse if you do.

Females never have to put up with any of that shit...

Just cut your hair short and act like a lesbian..

I mean it's not perfect but it's better than the shit men face and also better than trying to go theough life as a man with a vagina.

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Because we've been terribly represented for so long, look at most representations of a trans woman in popular media. They probably look like a guy in a dress and are labeled a "transvestite"
It's sad but that's just how people see us for now
What we need to be generally accepted is proper representation in media, but that probably won't happen soon cause "non binary" stuff is what's getting attention now
It's sad but I don't think we'll ever be generally accepted

>>7923750
I understand your pain as a mtf, but for example I'm a pre-t ftm. Almost boyish to pass but not yet. I'm not feminine looking in any way but:
I still get flirted with by straight guys, people still call me ma'am/miss, people ask why I don't wear makeup and pressure me to wear dresses for events, guys try to touch my (literally flat) chest, straight girls don't like me and see me as a weird dyke, men won't hire me for more physical jobs...

I'm probably missing a lot but regardless of whether I'm not seen as "feminine", they still don't see me as what I am which is a man stuck in a female body.

>>7923779
>wahh someone asked me to pick something up the world is unfair
>stop treating me like I look

Woe is you. Grow a pair you goddamn Nancy. You sound like a middle aged repressed Hon that's salty he didn't transition earlier.

>>7923817
>>7923817
I wish I had those things.

>>7923834
And I wish I had people asking me to carry things because I'm strong, or straight girls mooning over me, or getting asked to have a beer with "the guys."

What bothers me is how people say I'm not a real man/my struggles don't matter because "women can present more masculine"

>>7923817
What's your orientation?

>>7924250
I like females only, but as a guy I don't like being called a lesbian.

>>7924250
Why?

>>7925858
So I can pigeonhole you

>>7925849
>>7925858
I was interested in your story and wanted to get a better picture of you. Have you managed to date a girl in a straight relationship despite being pre-t?

I'd like to hear more anecdotes like those too. How do you get pressured to wear dresses? When do guys try to touch your lack of tits? When have you been turned down from physical jobs or tasks?

>>7925919
Yeah, it's not often that you see FtM outside of the general.

>>7926023
It happens plenty in the right threads, and I ask mtfs and cis peeps their stories too.

>>7902199
>There is more control over biological male's gender and emotional expression.
>This is because tribes needed every male to be physically and emotionally capable of protecting their group, so group dynamics evolved to have the entire tribe pressure males to be emotionless husks (except anger).

You could just as well say there is more pressure on women to be attractive. So when a man transitions to female, they have all this pressure to pass and look good. When they failt hey receive hate. When a woman becomes a man, no one gives a fuck. There are few expectations that a man should look good so long as he provides labor and doesn't claim a mate.

>>7926985
Underrated post.

>>7926985
>When a woman becomes a man, no one gives a fuck. There are few expectations that a man should look good so long as he provides labor and doesn't claim a mate.

I think you're missing that FtM are essentially, theoretically, going against "pressure on women to be attractive." in the eyes of many. (Not to imply FtM are automatically unattractive, implying that femininity is associated with a person's value -- MtF experience this heavily too, just in a different form.)

I've been thinking about this a lot and honestly both parties experience a load of shit. I worry about transwomen because, honestly, they face a lot of violence and fetishization. Transmen however seem to experience a lot of neglect and disregard. It's taxing and difficult in different ways and I'm not sure how to properly word it.

>>7922699
>>7922722

I know just how you're feeling. Well I'm not even on HRT. I'm still waiting for that. Been more than a year now. Before that I had to lay low cause my parents aren't supportive at all.

I used to think it was because of that, because of how my whole family reacted that I was in this shit place right now. I thought it was internalised transphobia... reading this I'm beginning to think it might be more complex.

I haven't started HRT and I'm still not out and I still can't manage to come out. Not even to my flat mates. I try to wear a jacket and that are a bit feminine yet discreet but I it just makes me suicidal for the whole day cause it doesn't work. I look at myself in the mirror, it's not right. I try to wear clothes I'd want to wear, it doesn't work. But I can't wear clothes I'm expected to wear cause it hurts too but I always retreat back in this grey space where I just where jeans and a random t-shirt and a jacket I hate but I feel invisible and whenever I get anything about my appearance (long hair, nail polish...) I just pass it as part of this persona I constructed to be... my mask, (>>7923216) but it just doesn't feel right.

And I've already wasted so many years and it's so infuriating that I can't do anything apart from waiting for the Gender Identity Clinic to answer. And I could just come out and start wearing clothes I want and I could have dated that girl that wanted to date me, that was fine with me being trans when I told her when the subject of us going out came up but all I did was fuck her up and now she doesn't want to talk to me. And we used to be good friends. But... I just feel broken and I wasn't able to act like I should with her and that fucked things up and it hurt her so much and I blame myself... and I just can't keep going like this for ages.

I was hoping HRT but if I go through with everything and I still feel the same, I'm not sure what I'll do... :/

>>7928538
and to continue on that, it's not like I'm unlucky or anything... I look pretty androgynous, my parents help me with rent and food and stuff while I'm at uni and still can't get a frigging job, I've got friends, I've got stuff, I've got a relatively healthy/functioning body... and yet it doesn't work. It's not even that it's not good enough, it's just that not being in the right body... makes it all useless in a way. And I just don't know how to fix things.

>>7928596
>>7928596

Im >>7923216 and I feel really sorry for you, it seems like you're going through a tough time. You sound like you need to take a step back and relax a little, look at the whole picture of things maybe. Like you just have to wait for the Gender Identity Clinic and when you get HRT you can still be boymode if it's too uncomfortable to go straight into transition. You have time to figure it all out. Maybe you should talk about it with one of your friends? One you can trust to be understanding and that you can trust not to tell it to anyone else. Slowly build up a support network of sorts, and try to continue your job searching to be more self-sufficient just in case your family doesn't take it well. When you feel more confident you should look into trying to bring it up to your parents and other persons you aren't out to and also start building up a wardrobe for the day you eventually are comfortable enough to start your social transition. I hope any of this helps, just my 2 cents.
And good luck in your life anon! I wish you the best ahead.

>>7930068
Thanks for the advice. I've been trying to talk to people... but it's hard sometimes and I don't want to bother them too much with my problems.

Also for the wardrobe I kind of do already... but it makes me so mad not to be able to wear anything. Eh... tonight I might be going out with a cute Alice in Wonderland dress I just bought... ^^'

>>7902199
how's college going

>>7927083
>
I think you're missing that FtM are essentially, theoretically, going against "pressure on women to be attractive." in the eyes of many.

You mean the pressure women put on other women while men don't give a single fuck

>>7925919
Only been in ""lesbian"" relationships, but after I come out to them they break up with me within a couple weeks. I don't want relationships anymore; I don't want to have sex with my female parts and that seems to be a big deal to girls.

I'm in public school (18 senior) so I'm in an echo chamber shouting "you're a girl" all the time. I have no idea how people I meet on the street see me, I really wish I knew. I'm in a really bad place rn and I feel like dysphoria has taken over my life desu.

>>7927083
>pressure on women to be attractive
There is no such thing.

I mean, unless you're considering
> If I'm not pretty, Chad will pick Stacy over me
as "pressure".

It's not the same as the pressure males face to be manly. Which is pretty much
> be manly or we'll beat your faggot ass up


> yfw women have it so easy that they consider having less results by being intentionally suboptimal as the ultimate oppression

>>7932848
If guys are ugly they still have worth as a person, and can be well respected if funny or have another redeeming quality.

If females are seen as ugly, people instantly have no respect for them. Males won't see them as bros or as someone to fuck so ignore them. Women will be disgusted by them and alienate them.

tldr; ugly guy still respected if funny/nice
ugly girl no respect even if other redeeming qualities

>>7933023
Well, I'm guessing unless they're masculine. If males aren't masculine and are ugly, they'll get bullied just as much. I think that's what >>7932848
was trying to say...

Now the question is why does society pressures males in being more "aggressive" and reckless and considers that masculine and then pressures women in being frail, beautiful things? I think we're basically back to the OP's question here.