How do we make Islam a bit more accepting to LGBT?

>>7890870
It needs to undergo the same reforms that Christianity, and traditionally Christian nations, have already undergone.

>>7890932
How do we reform Islamic law though?

It is rooted in the Quran and I don't mean in the same way that Christian law was inspired by the Bible. The Quran literally functions as a political book of law.

Quran (4:11) - (Inheritance) "The male shall have the equal of the portion of two females"


Quran (2:282) - (Court testimony) "And call to witness, from among your men, two witnesses. And if two men be not found then a man and two women."

Save for literally ripping out pages, how do you accomplish this? The Bible didn't have as severe a problem.

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>>7890870
Simple:

We eradicate Islam.

>>7890969
this. you don't reform cancer, you destroy it.

>>7890965

Basically this >>7890969

>>7890932
>>7890965
To note the last time the Bible was severly edited was Council of Nicaea in 325 CE.

There was some edits made because it was translated several times, but I don't think this is possible in the modern age.

I'm not entirely sure how you would go about editing the Quran, when it hasn't even happened in a real way in Christianity in 1700 years.

>>7890969
>>7890972
>>7890976
So can we admit that while Christianity is flawed, it is infinitely better for modern society than Islam.

People are just not willing to admit that 1 set of religious ideas isn't equal to another set of religious ideas.

Now there are certain aspects where Islam is better, such as abortion.

> In Islam, the fetus is believed to become a living soul after four months of gestation,[1] and abortion after that point is generally viewed as impermissible. Many Islamic thinkers recognize exceptions to this rule for certain circumstances; indeed, Azizah Y. al-Hibri notes that "the majority of Muslim scholars permit abortion, although they differ on the stage of fetal development beyond which it becomes prohibited."[2] According to Sherman Jackson, "while abortion, even during the first trimester, is forbidden according to a minority of jurists, it is not held to be an offense for which there are criminal or even civil sanctions."[3]

Now this isn't to say that Muslims are more accepting of abortion than Christians, but if you tried to introduce abortion to Islamic countries, you'd have a pretty easy case arguing for it unlike in Christian countries

>>7890870
It is reforming. It just needs to reform more.

http://www.worldreligionnews.com/religion-news/lgbtq-friendly-mosque-in-south-africa-teaches-islam-and-gay-rights

>>7890870
Kill them all

>>7891029
You can't reform it because of how Islamic law works.

You can reform Christianity because it is very interpretative, but when it comes to Islam, there isn't much room, there are very clear rules when it comes to interpretation, it doesn't exist. Each following Sura is more important than the last.

How exactly do you reform these quotes straight from the base book

>Quran (2:191-193) - "And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief or unrest] is worse than killing... but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah [disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah] and worship is for Allah alone. But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimun(the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)"

>
Quran (2:244) - "Then fight in the cause of Allah, and know that Allah Heareth and knoweth all things."

>Quran (2:216) - "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not."

>
Quran (3:151) - "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority"

>Quran (4:74) - "Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward."

>>7891023
The problem is that it's apples and oranges. Judaism was created by oppressed slaves with no hope for the future; Islam was created by savages who loved to merciless conquer.

>inb4 muh jews weren't originally slaves
>b-but rome conquered too desu

>>7891048
Did you even fucking read the article? Also, haven't you ever thought that maybe people who follow a religion will sometimes ignore the things they don't like about that religion? Plenty of Christians do it, why can't Muslims?

>>7891048
>Quran (4:95) - "Not equal are those of the believers who sit (at home), except those who are disabled (by injury or are blind or lame, etc.), and those who strive hard and fight in the Cause of Allah with their wealth and their lives. Allah has preferred in grades those who strive hard and fight with their wealth and their lives above those who sit (at home).Unto each, Allah has promised good (Paradise), but Allah has preferred those who strive hard and fight, above those who sit (at home) by a huge reward "

Muslims who do not physically engage in war are literally considered less of a muslim by their doctrine, how exactly do you reform this?

>Quran (5:33) - "The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement"

>Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them" ISIS didn't have to dig much to get their inspiration

>Quran (8:15) - "O ye who believe! When ye meet those who disbelieve in battle, turn not your backs to them. (16)Whoso on that day turneth his back to them, unless maneuvering for battle or intent to join a company, he truly hath incurred wrath from Allah, and his habitation will be hell, a hapless journey's end."

>Quran (8:67) - "It is not for a Prophet that he should have prisoners of war until he had made a great slaughter in the land..." There goes the Geneva convention.

>>7891068
because sand niggers

>>7891068
Because it's law?

Because while the Bible is hateful sometimes, it did get retconned and it doesn't specifically say to murder anyone, it just shares horrible stories of murder of peoples who are long dead.

It doesn't literally say "attack and kill this and this religious group (Christians and Jews). Samson might have killed thousands of Philistines in the Bible, but it never says tokill more Philistines and they don't even exist anymore.

That's the difference, Islam is both a law, a political and a religious book. The bible is just a religious book.

>t. an atheist who took the time to read both the Quran and the Bible

>>7890870

>since we are taking in soo many immigrants,

We don't have to.

>how do we reform Islam?

Islam has always been authoritarian but Jihadism IS The Islamic Reformation.

>http://www.xenosystems.net/the-islamic-vortex-note-2/

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>>7891023
>So can we admit that while Christianity is flawed, it is infinitely better for modern society than Islam.
Christianity is just repackaged Roman stoicism, The core focus is on self improvement and becoming a better person.

Islam's core is a harsh set of rules for sustaining and slowly spreading Islam. Homosexuality does not help Islam in any way.

>>7891078
> He considers this an actual argument
wew lad

>>7891068
>>7891106

> "Fight against those who disbelieve in Allah. Make a holy war... When you meet your enemies who are polytheists, invite them to three courses of action. If they respond to any one of these, you also accept it and withhold yourself from doing them any harm. Invite them to (accept) Islam; if they respond to you, accept it from them and desist from fighting against them... If they refuse to accept Islam, demand from them the Jizya. If they agree to pay, accept it from them and hold off your hands. If they refuse to pay the tax, seek Allah's help and fight them."

Islam is structured as a political ideology, it's hard to understand that for people who grew up with Christianity and assume Islam is the same with a few tweeks here and there.

To be clear what the quote means. It means when conquering a peoples, you either force them to convert, kill them or make them pay a 20%+ tax called Jizya, mind you 20% tax was a big deal at the time, it literally made the difference between starving and making ends meet, from a historical context.

This is the difference, Islam is literally a guidebook to proliferating your ideology.

I very much encourage anyone to read the Quran for themselves

>>7891077

The words don't matter, when the question is simply whether or not it can possibly ever be reformed. It's just a soft cultural thingy and so it can change. Period. It might be more rigid and stable than Christianity, sure. That's not saying much.

All that's needed is, say, an upswelling of popular sentiment among Muslims against whatever bit of the religion you don't like, one that's great enough to eventually trickle up to the top of the religion's hierarchy and trigger a Holy Council or some such, at which some douches in ornate headgear will officially change the rules to something you like better. Any part of it can change. If they continue calling it Islam and it sort of looks like Islam, then it'll still be Islam. Problem solved.

>>7890969
I mean you're right but your crusader imagery implies that Christianity isn't to be eradicated as well, which is obviously false.

>>7891147
I don't understand how people could argue with this, the evidence is very clear that religious ideologies are not all the same.

Jainism isn't the same as Christianity and Christianity isn't the same as Hinduism and Hinduism isn't the same as Islam.

Believe it or not, what the religious texts say, has an ACTUAL impact of how the followers of said religions behave.

Shocking I know.

>>7891147

Or go visit one of those scary countries (if you're capable of not looking like a gendermixed monster in the eyes of the locals) and actually talk to some people there. Or, to make it much easier, go to Germany and meet some refugees while mostly surrounded by relatively safe European culture.

But that might actually answer some questions, and raise unexpected new questions, and answer those in turn. And learning terrifies politikids.

>>7891151
Ohh I'm not saying it is impossible, it is just a bunch of words on paper, but with 1.5 Billion muslims, it is improbable.

It is just as likely as Moldova becoming a first world power and a global empire.

>>7891172
Are you stupid? Do you think I think Muslims are evil?

No, but as long as there is Islam, a relatively big minority will cause large problems, once the minority becomes big enough, they overthrow your government and make a theocracy.

Have you talked to any Iranians before their revolution, it didn't exactly help them from becoming a theocracy, what exactly is your point?

Do you not understand how ideologies work?

>>7891048
>>7891077

To note this is literally a very small portion of these quotes, there areliterally hundreds

>>7891172
>r, to make it much easier, go to Germany and meet some refugees while mostly surrounded by relatively safe European culture
You do realize what Ghettos are, right?

>>7891106
The thing is that the book is just that; it's a book. It doesn't matter what the book itself says if people ignore it. A religion is made of its people, not its book. Islam is made of Muslims, not the Quran. The Quran can't be changed, but Muslims are people and people are always changing. Say they're not 'real' Muslims all you like, but it doesn't matter. Religion has been distorted for the modern era many times, and if the people are so willing, it will be distorted again.

>>7891198
The only way to save Muslims, is literally make them not be Muslims

>>7891201
Yeah ehmm, hello Eurocentric point of view from somebody who doesn't understand foreign philosophy or foreign religion.

THE reason why Christianity changed was it's proclivity to interpretation. Sisyphus will have an easier time accomplishing his task than you "reforming" Islam

For the last time, and I don't plan to waste more time on somebody who hasn't actually read the Quran, Islam is VERY literal, there is almost zero room for interpretation.

You can engage in wishful thinking as much as you want, but in this case you are simply wrong, reforming Islam, literally means abandoning it, which I'm all in favor off, I don't think there is anything wrong with Muslims aside from their religion, and possibly their absurdly high rates of incest.

>Another episode of "People don't understand that different religious doctrines have different real world implications"

>>7891206
Not really. The 5 pillars are what's considered important to Islam at its core; if the belief in 5 pillars and nothing else is spread, nobody would have an issue. The problem is outdated things like Sharia.

>>7891257

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaand all the things written in the Quran

>>7891077
>>7891048
>>7890965
>>7891147

Here are 7 deadly Islamic sins if that wasn't enough:

https://islamqa.info/en/200632

A few things about Orphans and Chastizing women, ohh and:

>Fleeing from the battlefield. When the Muslims meet the disbelievers in battle, the one who flees and deserts his brothers on the day of battle, when the disbelievers march against the Muslims or the Muslims march against the disbelievers – the one who flees and deserts his brothers is subject to this stern warning (interpretation of the meaning): “unless it be a stratagem of war, or to retreat to a troop (of his own)” [al-Anfaal 8:16] that is, unless he is recruiting to prepare himself, bring his weapon and put on his armour in preparation for fighting, which does not do any harm, or he is moving from one detachment to another, or from one rank to another, or from one group to another, as part of a plan against the enemy.

Warfare, how interesting.

>t. another person who doesn't know much about Islam

Can people actually argue the point, I don't see any actual refutations just feelings, wishful thinking and optimism

>>7891257

Here is some more:

>>7890891
>>7890898
>>7890913


Keep up the optimism though A+ for Ignorance, F for actual Knowledge about the subject

>>7891166
Priorities, once Islam is gone, you can focus on other religions.

>>7891257
right, i'm a muslim guy and i'll say sharia is a fairly recent invention thats derived from hadith, and interpretations of the quran.

in otherwords, some old cunts in a circle started to jerk off and write random laws which they thought were good for all of islam and then said they were the authority and voice for all muslims.

and the clerics, are certainly not the voice of muslims, theyre just clerics.

islam is hard to reform all in 1 go, because it has no central authority, each muslim is supposed to decide for himself (obviously people are lazy and follow sects), it has no pope or anything to give some divine order.

also just saying, the only real muslims are the shia muslims.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SAfUGTk55ME

>>7891320
>Do I listen to all those quotes telling me to behead non-believers or not.

Hmm much thought,

>>7891351

Historical verses have no value in modern islam. islam is no longer 5 people in a tent, its 2 billion people, and it wont die out any time soon, so there's no need to fight and defend it anymore, its future is secure.

>>7891360
The goal isn't to secure its future, it is to make every man and woman in exsistence into a Muslim, the goal is very clear if you've read the Quran

>>7890965
Except similar statements ARE found in the Bible. I don't know about the context of those Quran passages, but just from what you've posted, you're not making the Quran look like something that "literally functions as a political book of law" any more than the Bible does.

>>7891048
Christianity wasn't always open to interpretation. Before the Protestant Reformation, there was only one interpretation of the Bible in Europe, which the Catholic Church's interpretation (remember most people didn't own bibles and were illiterate at this point), anyone who came up with their own interpretation was burned at the stake as a heretic. It wasn't until afterwards that interpretation became a valid concept. It's not that interpretation is a prerequisite for reformation, it's actually the opposite.

>>7891536
>"literally functions as a political book of law" any more than the Bible does.
Ohh I remember when the Bible went into specifics of taxing the people you occupy, and precisely how court should be ran, or precisely how inherritence should be spread out?

Are you illiterate?

>>7891536
>>7891957

(o8.1) - When a person who has reached puberty and is sane voluntarily apostatizes from Islam, he deserves to be killed.

(o8.4) - There is no indemnity for killing an apostate (since it is killing someone who deserves to die).

Acts that define "leaving Islam" and being subject to execution are listed in o8.7. They include:
-2- to intend to commit unbelief, even if in the future

-3- to deny the existence of Allah... or any of his attributes

-6- to be sarcastic about Allah's name, his command, his interdiction... or his threat

-7- to deny any verse of the Quran

-8- to mockingly say, "I don't know what faith is"

-17- to believe that things in themselves or by their own nature have any causal influence independent of the will of Allah

Yeah this can't be considered to be law, can it?

>>7891320
sharia has been a thing since day 1 stfu

>>7891536
>>7891957

(o9.0) - Jihad means to war against non-Muslims, and is etymologically derived from the word mujahada signifying warfare to establish the religion...

The scriptural basis for jihad... is such Koranic verses as:
-1- “Fighting is prescribed for you'' (Koran 2: 216);
-2- “Slay them wherever you find them'' (Koran 4: 89);
-3- “Fight the idolators utterly'' (Koran 9: 36);
and such hadiths as the one related by Bukhari and Muslim that the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) said:
“I have been commanded to fight people until they testify that there is no god but Allah and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and perform the prayer, and pay zakat. If they say it, they have saved their blood and possessions from me, except for the rights of Islam over them. And their final reckoning is with Allah'';
(o9.1) - Jihad [against non-Muslims in their own countries ] is a communal obligation... "He who provides the equipment for a soldier in Jihad has himself performed Jihad"

(o9.7) - The caliph makes war upon Jews, Christians, and Zoroastrians until they become Muslim or pay the non-Muslim poll tax in accordance with the word of Allah Most High:
"Fight those who do not believe in Allah and the Last Day and who forbid not what Allah and His messenger have forbidden-who do not practice the religion of truth, being of those who have been given the Book-until they pay the poll tax out of hand and are humbled" (Quran 9.29))
(o9.9) - The caliph fights all other people until they become Muslim

>>7891536
>>7891957

m3.4 - 3.7 say that a woman may not "conduct her own marriage", meaning that she is not free to marry by choice. A male guardian is required to validate the marriage agreement.

m3.8 says that a woman is not free to choose her guardian. It is assigned by family relation. Once she is married, she becomes the charge of her husband's guardianship.

A Muslim woman may not marry a non-Muslim man (Quran 2:221). An untranslated portion of the Sharia even forbids an Arab woman from marrying a non-Arab man (source).

(m13.4) - A woman has no right to custody of her children from a previous marriage when she remarries.

(m5.1) - It is obligatory for a woman to let her husband have sex with her immediately when he asks her... and she can physically endure it.

(m10.11-2) - It is not lawful for a wife to leave the house except by the permission of her husband.

(m10.11) - When a husband notices signs of rebelliousness in his wife, he warns her in words. If she commits rebelliousness, he keeps from sleeping with her without words, and may hit her, but not in a way that injures her, meaning he may not break bones, wound her, or cause blood to flow.

(o4.9) - The indemnity for the death or injury of a woman is one-half the indemnity paid for a man.

(L10.3) - Divide the universal share so the male receives the portion of two females (Rule of inheritance based on the Quran 4:11)

(m2.3) - It is unlawful for women to leave the house with faces unveiled

>>7891536
>>7891957
(o4.9) - The indemnity paid for a Jew or Christian is one-third of the indemnity paid for a Muslim. The indemnity paid of a Zoroastrian is one-fifteenth of that a Muslim.

(h8.24) - It is not permissible to give zakat to a non-Muslim.

(e2.3) - It is offensive to use the vessels [dishes] of non-Muslims or wear their clothes.

e8.3 says that a non-Muslim may not touch the Quran.

f21.2 says that non-Muslims are not allowed to 'mix' with Muslims at certain events.

g1.2 says that it is permissible for a Muslim to visit a non-Muslim who is ill, but not recommended. (Same with visiting the grave of a non-Muslim relative - g5.8)

(L5.2) - a non-Muslim may not inherit from a Muslim. (or vice versa)

o1.2 states that there is no penalty for a Muslim who kills a non-Muslim

o11.0-11 says that non-Muslim subjects of an Islamic state may live free from harm if they
- pay a special 'poll' tax (the jizya)

- comply with certain Islamic rules, specifically the penalty for adultery (stoning) and theft (amputation)

- distinguish themselves from Muslims by dressing differently

- keep to the side of the side of the street when Muslims pass

- accept a lesser form of greeting

- agree not to build new churches or build houses higher than those of Muslims
The agreement is broken (meaning that the non-Muslim may be lynched) if he breaks the rules, fails to pay the poll tax, "leads a Muslim away from Islam", "mentions something impermissible" about Islam, or has sex with a non-Muslim woman.

(o22.13) - The judge treats two litigants impartially, seating both in places of equal honor, attending to each, and so forth, unless one is a non-Muslim, in which case he gives the Muslim a better seat

See also Rights of Non-Muslims in an Islamic State

>>7891536
>>7891957

Slavery:

A large section of the Sharia is devoted to codifying the practice of slavery (k32.0). The Reliance of the Traveller omits these rules from the English language translation, perhaps to obscure the comfortable relationship between Islam and slavery. However, parts from other sections address both the capture of slaves and the sanctioning of forced conversion under obvious duress.

(o9.13) - When a child or a woman is taken captive, they become slaves by the fact of capture, and the woman's previous marriage is immediately annulled.

(o9.14) - When an adult male is taken captive, the caliph considers the interests (O: of Islam and the Muslims) and decides between the prisoner's death, slavery, release without paying anything, or ransoming himself in exchange for money or for a Muslim captive held by the enemy. If the prisoner becomes a Muslim (O: before the caliph chooses) then he may not be killed, and one of the other three alternatives is chosen.

(o9.12) Whoever enters Islam before being captured may not be killed or his property confiscated, or his young children taken captive.

o4.9 is one of several rules that establish slaves as property, to be traded as a form of restitution.

o20.2 makes it clear that a slave freed as a method of expiation must be a "sound Muslim."

>>7891536
>>7891957

Permissible Lying (Taqiyya)

(r8.2) - The Prophet said, "He who settles disagreements between people to bring about good or says something commendable is not a liar.''

Kulthum added, "I did not hear him permit untruth in anything people say, except for three things: war, settling disagreements and a man talking with his wife or she with him (in smoothing over differences)''

This is an explicit statement that lying is sometimes permissible for a given interest...

Speaking is a means to achieve objectives. If a praiseworthy aim is attainable through both telling the truth and lying, it is unlawful to accomplish through lying because there is no need for it. When it is possible to achieve such an aim by lying but not by telling the truth, it is permissible to lie if attaining the goal is permissible and obligatory to lie if the goal is obligatory...

Whether the purpose is war, settling a disagreement, or gaining the sympathy of a victim legally entitled to retaliate against one so that he will forbear to do so; it is not unlawful to; lie when any of these aims can only be attained through lying. But is religiously more precautionary in all such cases to employ words that give misleadng impression, meaning to intend by one's words something that is literally true, in respect to which one is not lying while the outward purport of the words deceives the hearer...

One should compare the bad consequences entailed by lying to those entailed by telling the truth, and if the consequences of telling the truth are more damaging, on is entitled to lie...

>>7891975
>>7891990
>>7892002
>>7892010
>>7892018
>>7892026
All of this is either citing the Quran or the Haddiths. How do you think Sharia was created, it was derived directly from Sunnah. This isn't some kind of fanfiction to Islam...

I guess I'm wasting my time though.

You need to erode the value of taking the Qur'an literally in every country.

You reform Islam the same way the Jews/Soviets reformed Christianity. Indoctrinate the younger generations then indoctrinate their children, then the children after them. You will not see an immediate effect but after three generations Islam will no longer be Islam.

Research Yuri Bezmenov.

>>7890932
One can make an argument for Christianity by stating that Jesus said nothing about homosexuality and that most of the barbaric verses are in the Old Testament, which Christians do not follow. You can't make the same argument for Islam. It's set in stone; being gay (along with a LOT of other things) is a big no-no.

>>7891068
Christianity is descriptive and Islam is prescriptive. You can't do with Islam what you do with Christianity.

>>7891201
>but Muslims are people and people are always changing
Muslims are not allowed to change. If they do, they are not Muslims, according to the teachings.

Let's all go to Islamic countries and install glory holes in the bathroom

When faggots discussing to reform Islam
You fucking can't. :DDD

Indeed, it is We who sent down the Qur'an and indeed, We will be its guardian.
And We had certainly sent [messengers] before you, [O Muhammad], among the sects of the former peoples.
And no messenger would come to them except that they ridiculed him.
Thus do We insert denial into the hearts of the criminals.
They will not believe in it, while there has already occurred the precedent of the former peoples.
And [even] if We opened to them a gate from the heaven and they continued therein to ascend,
They would say, "Our eyes have only been dazzled. Rather, we are a people affected by magic."
(Al-Hijr 15:9-15)

Falsehood cannot approach it from before it or from behind it; [it is] a revelation from a [Lord who is] Wise and Praiseworthy. (Al-Fussilat 41:42)

And to you faggots:

Indeed, you approach men with desire, instead of women. Rather, you are a transgressing people." (Al-A'raf 7:81)

"Verily, you do sodomy with men, and rob the wayfarer (travellers, etc.)! And practise Al-Munkar (disbelief and polytheism and every kind of evil wicked deed) in your meetings." But his people gave no answer except, that they said: "Bring Allah's Torment upon us if you are one of the truthful."
He said: My Lord! help me against the mischievous people. (Al 'Ankabut 29:30-31)

>>7894039
cont

And when Our messengers came to Abraham with the good tidings, they said, "Indeed, we will destroy the people of that Lot's city. Indeed, its people have been wrongdoers."
[Abraham] said, "Indeed, within it is Lot." They said, "We are more knowing of who is within it. We will surely save him and his family, except his wife. She is to be of those who remain behind."
And when Our messengers came to Lot, he was distressed for them and felt for them great discomfort. They said, "Fear not, nor grieve. Indeed, we will save you and your family, except your wife; she is to be of those who remain behind.
Surely We will cause to come down upon the people of this town a punishment from heaven, because they transgressed.
And verily of that We have left a clear sign for people who have sense.

(Al-'Ankabut 29:31-35)

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>>7890870
When Muslims live next to people of other religions they become more tolerant.
Isolation makes them more militant.
We need to welcome Muslims into our neighborhoods and let our children intermarry with their children.
History has shown this is the only way.
Deal with it.

>>7890965
separate church and state? And lol yes the bible does have some pretty severe problems if you based your entire society on it.

>>7891280
>Islamqa
This is a wahabi saudi website

>>7894084
This tbqhwy pham.

>>7894084
>tfw no wealthy secular 'muslim' bf who takes me to his seaside mansion to live with him

>>7890870
>how do we reform Islam?
Any attempt is practically doomed to fail because as stated here islam is much more strick on interpretations than other religions, and there's a lot of rich fundamentalist groups spending their wealth on undermining less orthodox forms of it.
Essentially everything you make, they'll destroy.

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>Trying to reform Islam
Jesus you faggots are fucking retarded.

>>7895330
Pls stop being such a pathetic fag

>>7892117
Christianity was reformed before Karl Marx's grandparents were even born. Saying the Soviets were responsible for reforming Christianity is like saying Steve Jobs was the person who discovered electricity.

>>7895473
i put 'muslim' in quotes because he wouldn't really believe in islam!

>>7895464
>/polgbt/ calling other people retarded

Gurrrl, bye.

>>7895464
>religions that throw people off buildings can't be reformed
>religions that burn people at the stake can be reformed
You just went full wew lad. Never go full wew lad.

>>7895489
You cant make cavepeople civilized, they could worship a fucking dungpile and they would still kill in its name.

secularism.

>>7891023
if you look at primary source text only, you'll find a thing in the bible to justify every law in contemporary islamic theocracies.

>>7895556
Calling Muslims ``cavepeople" isn't meaningful. They've been raised and indoctrinated into following a violent and backwards ideology, but psychologically they're still human. Civilized people aren't any more wiser or more psychologically mature, they're just fortunate enough to have been raised in a society that encourages questioning and independent thought. But even civilized people had ancestors who were barbaric fanatics, much like Muslims are today. Look at some of the stuff that happened in Europe during the Protestant Reformation, those people were just as barbaric as Muslims are today. Yet they were able to move past it; there's no reason to think Muslims can't, so long as the right sociocultural factors exist.

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>>7895614
Yeah you sit down and try to talk to them while someone else starts gunning em down and clearing em out and lets see who of you solves the muslim problem first.

>>7895587
>falling for the secularism maymay
You have to go back

>>7895635
Do you want an actual World War III with Islam or something?

>>7891123
That's not really what it ends up being in practice by people who follow it strictly... It's basically "judge everybody, badger everybody to convert, emotionally manipulate your kids."

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>>7895669
It's not up to me really.
But yes.

>>7895689
I hope you're ready to enlist, then, faggot.

>>7891068
>Plenty of Christians do it, why can't Muslims?
Because when a christian does it, he generally won't have to fear that his more fundamentalist brothers consider him some blasphemer and risking his life.

Also countries like Saudi Arabia, UAE, Kuwait and Iran are actively trying to undermine reformist initiatives.

>it's another polgbt thinks salafi wahhabism is the only kind of Islam episode

>>7895635
You do realize there's 1.6 billion Muslims? Even if we assume that ``someone else" has a assault rifle with a literal bottomless magazine, he's not going to kill even 1% of Muslims before someone takes him out. And your reasoning, ``let's solve the Muslim problem by killing them all" is on par with saying ``let's end poverty and rape culture by nuking every country on Earth".

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>>7895726
We dont need them, whatever they could achieve our own people can achieve and with less fucking headache and problem for everyone. Someone has to start and it wont happen as long as stupid hippies like you exist who cant stop defending muslims and savages.

>>7895705
t. Ahmet

We can all see through your tricks

There are people who follow reformed versions of Islam. The people who are the most extreme about following the Quran are the minority - they just have power in a lot of these places.

I mean, take Judaism. You probably think it's reformed, because you meet mostly Jews who follow specific versions of it that aren't extremely literalist and open to adapting to modern society. But there are Orthodox Jews, who believe that the Torah is law and also completely god-approved without human biases affecting it. I know a good deal of people who are Orthodox and they vary widely, which is my experience as well with most muslims that believe in this flawless Quran type thing (again, there are many who don't, but still believe in what they see as the core tenets, like modesty, charity, prayer, oneness of God).

It's the 4chan equivalent of being super edgy to say this but I actually grew up with atheist parents AND 3 atheist grandparents. But my grandma was Jewish and I ended up being more or less practicing. Now that I live abroad I've had to basically get involved with the Orthodox community and I have to say, I think even with them, progress is happening. It's just slower, and it NEVER works when it's from the outside. Then they get defensive. And I think more than anything the extremist branches of Islam are politically motivated, just like the crusades were politically motivated. People want money and power. You can get a lot of people to follow you if you convince them and yourself that you're doing it for holy reasons.

>>7895748
what makes you think you'll win the war? or that anyone outside of the west will support you?

By talking with people and being modest so you can't be dehumanized for anything they would find immoral. Thank god I have rights in Turkey

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>>7895757
I'm talking about a goddamn racewar not a fucking alt-right neonazi rambo gunning em all down.

>>7895769
Isn't Turkey being turned into Pakistan with Erdogan?

>>7895755
Do you think progress among Orthodox Jews will be stalled with the current political climate?

>>7895726
>1.6 billion Muslims?
And?
The US alone has the firepower to pretty much end all life on the planet.
Russia has even more.

The problem lies not with numbers.

>>7895748
I didn't say we need them though, just that trying to solve the ``Muslim problem" with violence is impractical. I mean, look at the Holocaust - Hitler had basically the entire German military under his control, and there were only about 9 million Jews in Europe in total. Yet, in 12 years, he only managed to kill about 2/3 of that population. Sure, Hitler made many stupid mistakes and there were obvious inefficiencies in his plan, but even so, it's absolutely ridiculous to think that you and a bunch of your friends will be even able to make a dent in the Muslim population. All you're likely to accomplish is get yourself thrown in jail for hate crimes.

>>7895755
>But there are Orthodox Jews, who believe that the Torah is law and also completely god-approved without human biases affecting it.
But besides circumcision their customs aren't incompatible with civilized society.

Contrast that with the religion of throwing people off buildings for their sexuality, cutting hands off for theft, selling slaves, etc.

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>>7895792
>The holocaust
>Real

>>7895790
>he actually thinks Russia is against Muslims

>>7895771
And what makes you think this racewar is even going to happen, or that when it does you'll be on the winning side?

>>7895777
Erdogan want to get rid of secularism but it's still far from being Pakistan and it's still an ok place, at least for now

>>7895790
You'd be killing a non-trivial number of non-Muslims if you did that though.

>>7895802
>or that when it does you'll be on the winning side?
Doesn't matter, if we lose we're as doomed as we are now, also, it is unlikely we would lose to these poor rat bastards with no tech or infrastructure.

>>7895798
Because it's perfectly reasonable to think that the disappearance of 2/3rds of European Jews during Hitler's reign is ``just a coincidence".

>>7895820
Most Islamic societies are accustomed to routine violence and open warfare, look at what's going on the Middle East now and has been going on for decades. The same isn't true of most Westerners, sure they like to talk big, but if told they literally had to stand out in the street and gun down invaders to protect their neighborhood, quite a few would freak out.

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>>7895829
Didnt happen sonny, and they sure had enough jews left to still control our global finance system and colonize Israel and for millions of "holocaust survivors" to claim reparation money.
>>7895842
>The same isn't true of most Westerner
The second world war was 77 years ago and prior to it war had been very fucking routine here.

>>7895800
>The US alone has the firepower to pretty much end all life on the planet.
So technically Russia does not even matter.

>>7895813
Killing off all life doesn't really benefit anyone.
Just saying that a holocaust on muslims isn't far beyond unrealistic, but actually possible.

And with current technology, there's no hiding people behind the bookshelf.
In fact without the interference of the UN or the general population, a genocide could happen on much larger scale, at a much higher efficiency than the nazis did.

>>7895794
...The Torah says to stone them to death. It's just that the criteria for being found guilty are so stringent.

I guess religious Jews are a bad example since they've never been in the majority since forever ago. But take Catholics. They believed in the same stuff, and acted on it in more or less the same way for centuries (a lot longer than this particular form of conservative Islam has been around). People were still executed for being gay like 150 years ago. And they still get killed for it in Christian countries. People are people. Stuff can change. It just doesn't necessarily happen in a straight line.

>>7895916
You mean a diseased line? It definately seems to happen in a diseased line.

>>7895884
>The second world war was 77 years ago and prior to it war had been very fucking routine here.
Which means no one under the age of 75 today grew up in a culture accustomed to warfare. Furthermore, we haven't faced open warfare on our own soil since 70 years BEFORE WWII. Sure, we have soldiers that are able to fight, but in a non-conventional war where our civilian population is directly attacked, we're at a substantial disadvantage.

>>7895885
I didn't say a Muslim holocaust was impossible, just that it's ridiculously impractical.

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>>7890870

Islam is a theocracy (sharia law).

Christianity is not.

>Islam is 100% incompatible with the secular state.

---

The Quran is written by one person.

The Bible has multiple authors.

>The Bible allows a wider range of interpretation (christian theologists differentiate between the god of the old testament and the god of the new testament, for example)

---

Islam's posterchild is Mohammed, who literally chopped off people's heads and was a pedophile.

Jesus, on the other hand, turned water into wine and stuff likr that, didn't harm anybody. Not a bad guy after all, I guess.

>Muslims are prone to terrorism.

---

A muslim has no right to leave the church. Those who try are persecuted. A muslim is futhermore not allowed to marry a non-muslim.

A christian may leave his church everytime. They may experience some kind of social pressure afterwards (depending on where they live), but they most certainly will not receive any death threads. Christian women are allowed to marry men of any religion.

>Islam forces you to obey. Christianity, on the other hand, wants you to choose to believe.

---


Can go on like this for hours...

It's all pretty obvious, really.

>"B-but, anon! There is this nice muslim person I know!"
Ask them what they think about homosexuality. 51% of all muslims living in the UK think that the homosexual act should be illegal. They do not just think that you will go to hell, they want to enforce laws so you go to jail, get whipped or even killed for "commiting" the homosexual act.

>"O-okay... but a-anon, there are strong and powerful women, who are wearing a hijab because they want to!!"
Kek. They can't even leave their religion properly if they want to.
I know a young muslim women (living in western europe), she personally is secular and does not even wear a hijab. She got herself a non-muslim [spoiler][/spoiler]friend and received death threads by her father and her brother.

>>7895783
I don't know, but I don't think it's helping... It depends on the group. I think the main thing really changing is that people take it for granted a lot less that Christians will be on their side. And when a lot of the anti-Islam rhetoric is about things that the Orthodox do as well - everything from not eating pork to covering themselves - people feel really defensive of all of that. At the same time though I think it's bringing a lot of us together who wouldn't interact otherwise. So when Orthodox young people get to meet gay Jews who practice pretty much everything the same way they do besides that they're gay they start feeling more alright about it.

Let's put it this way, I go to Chabad almost every week and I'm more concerned about them finding out I eat eel than that I like women.

>>7895932
You're missing the point again, white people had been making steps ever since ancient times to lead civilized warfare, gradually step by step, from codes of chivalry to the rights of man the white man has been building a civilized world and muslims have proven themselves incapable to adapt and adopt a modern fucking lifestyle. Kill them all, the only common language we have with them is violence. No other people show initiative to better the world than whites, which is why ironically you are so fucking naively optimistic when they simply cannot fucking improve as a people. They will always be savages mooching off our inventions and charity.

Ask yourself why no one else made a change from perpetual warfare, China been fighting for longer than we have and still never broke the cycle or changed the world for the better.

We have been nice for far too long, disbanding the colonies was a mistake.

>>7895916
>...The Torah says to stone them to death. It's just that the criteria for being found guilty are so stringent.
No, it's just that THEY DON'T GO AND DO IT.

Christians and Jews, even very religious, traditional and orthodox ones, don't actually do all the horrible shit in their scriptures, with the exception mentioned. Muslims on the other hand commit atrocities far worse even than the ones written about on their books.

>>7895932
>just that it's ridiculously impractical.
Because of moral objection and ethical opposition to such a move.

>>7895943
>Christianity doesn't force you to believe
You don't have to lie about Christianity to criticize Islam. The Inquisition was not very long ago, comparatively. Prior to the Reconquista, Jews lived in Muslim-ruled Spain freely...

>>7895986
I wasn't talking about the past.

There happened a lot of things since the inquisition... the enlightenment for example.

If you choose not to be a christian in the western world, you may get problems with your family. That's nothing compared to what muslims wanting to leave Islam experience.

>>7895970
That's what I'm saying though, they did. It took time to change it. And in pretty recent times, this wasn't happening in Muslim majority countries... it was in the books but people didn't act on it because it didn't work to do. It's got to do with who is in power. If the super religious Christians were in power - and really, truly in power, in an autocratic way - they'd do that shit too.

Again, murdering gay people has been historically super common globally. It being not okay is new. It's not logical to think it can't change with Islam.

>>7896008
Residential schools happened, too. Similar stuff in Australia. Basically forcing 'pagan' kids to become Christian. The fact that it's just problems with your family and not the government has to do with politics, not something about the religion of those Christians being more accepting. And, by the way, said "problems with your family" can include violence, even murder (look at Catholic countries).

And, anyway, the whole exterminating Muslims thing doesn't make sense if you acknowledge coercion involved... Lots of people probably would change if they could. A lot of people want to still be Muslim but don't like these ultra right wing politics.

>>7896012
>That's what I'm saying though, they did. It took time to change it.
It could change in a single generation if we made it. But we don't, because cucks like you defend it with the implication it can only happen over a millennium.

>And in pretty recent times, this wasn't happening in Muslim majority countries... it was in the books but people didn't act on it because it didn't work to do.
Bullshit. Of course there are cases like Persia/Iran, but when was Arabia not cutting off hands for theft? When did it not have slavery? When was it not executing people for witchcraft?

>If the super religious Christians were in power - and really, truly in power, in an autocratic way - they'd do that shit too.
True in the most dishonest sense possible: these super religious Christians are so few and far between they might as well not exist. America has more radical Muslims than radical Christians.

>>7896101
lol there are people being killed in Christian countries for being witches

>>7890870
Islam doesn't 'do' reform.

>>7896101
Well, Moorish Iberia, for one thing.

And I didn't say millennia. But I'm saying it's inevitable. And also not possible to do from the outside.

>>7895970
Some Muslims do, and some Christians/Jews do pretty fucked up on the basis of their religion. But that isn't inherent in their religion, it's those people that are to blame, not the religion.

>>7895972
And? You can't just hand-wave those issues away though. There's always going to be people who are opposed to mass murder. And saying "well it would be practical if it wasn't for all the factors making it impractical" isn't really profound, you might as well be saying "rich people wouldn't be rich if they didn't have money" or something equally tautological.

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>>7890969
Gay crusade when?

>>7896643
lol never

>>7890870
If Christianity has a problem with LGBT, so will Islam...organized religion tends to dislike LGBT.

>>7894084
Ali (19) lived in an Islamic state from the day he was born till the day he graduated high school. Click here to see him shove an enormous rubber penis up his ass.

>>7897293
what

>>7895965
> No other people show initiative to better the world than whites

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Muslim_scientists

I'd like you to open this link and contemplate how incredibly long the page is.

>>7897339
ALI (19) LIVED IN AN ISLAMIC STATE FROM THE DAY HE WAS BORN TILL THE DAY HE GRADUATED HIGH SCHOOL. CLICK HERE TO SEE HIM SHOVE AN ENORMOUS RUBBER PENIS UP HIS ASS.

>>7895477
Fine, whatever just do what you need to do to destroy islam. Im sick of seeing sand niggers glorified in the media.

>>7897819
Then maybe you could produce your own media as an alternative? You're basically getting mad because other people don't share your preferences.

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>>7890870
>we are taking in soo many immigrants

neger please

>>7890870
How about ya just stop taking them in, ya dingus!

You can't reform Islam the same way as Christianity reformed. The New Testament modded the barbaric OT with mostly Jesus' philosophy which was basically hippie shit, turn the other cheek, do unto others as you would have them do unto you, let he who is without sin cast the first stone, love thine neighbor, resist not evil, etc. It didn't stop Christians from doing crusades and inquisitions but when some people wanted society to get civilized there was at least some basis for it already there in their holy book.

And as for Jews they're not a proselytizing/converting religion so even though the conservative ones still believe the OT stuff they don't try to shove it down anybody's throat.

Islam is different. The Koran is much shorter than the Bible, was written by one guy, and has a coherent message throughout which is consistently warlike and bloodthirsty and about killing infidels. And furtherIslam is not like protestantism where they can just reinterpret it any way they want. They also have the hadiths which they accept as gospel truth which have even more extreme and crazy/irrational things.

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>Faggots opinion on Islam
pic related

We send them shipments of twinks to satisfy their desires

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>>7897927
>mostly Jesus' philosophy
>"mostly"
You mean the Roman Emperor's philosophy when he organized the rewriting of the NT?

>wanted society to get civilized
Roman detected

>not like protestantism where they can just reinterpret it any way they want
Roman Catholic detected

>>7890870
So this Syrian Muslim guy in prison used to perv on my ass hardcore. He dragged me into his cell, sat me on his toilet and told me to suck his dick.
He pinned me to my friends bed opened my legs and simulated fucking me.
He told me my ass was getting big in the lunch queue.
He caught me praying in my cell and became obsessed with the idea of fucking me while I prayed.
Problem was I'm a top so although he was really hot I just wanted to eat his ass and fuck him.
So one day I went into his cell and told him I want to fuck him in the ass.
He got so fucking mad, he was getting dressed to go to Muslim prayers so I probably chose a bad time.
He told me he's a Muslim and they kill gays in his country, that he's not gay. That he's fucked like ten boys like me, but he's not gay.
He pretty much stopped talking to me after that.
Unfortunately his Russian friend didn't stop asking me how much I charge for blowjobs.
It's a shame he was so insecure over his sexuality as he is really really fucking hot. Like he has long wavy hair, and his body and ass are really hot. I hope one day he can come to terms with his sexuality and take a dick in his sexy ass.

>>7898770
>He dragged me into his cell, sat me on his toilet and told me to suck his dick.
So did you?

>>7898761
The New Testament was rewritten by a Roman Emperor? Where's your source for that? Sounds like some DaVinci code bullshit. By 'wanted society to get civilized' I was referring to the slow march of progress, Enlightenment values coming in and being accepted even by devout Christians. And I wasn't criticizing protestantism for letting people interpret it any way, if anything we would be better off if Muslims saw the Koran that way as they would have a chance at modernizing, but they don't.

>>7898787
Fuck no.
I thought about it because I thought if I put his dick in my mouth I might be able to slip my tongue and even a finger up his ass, but his pervy Russian friend was in the room too and i really had no interest in having to suck him off too.
I'm gay but I don't like dick.
I know it's fuckdd up.

>>7898770
Let's let homophobic religious zealots into our country because some of them are repressed faggots and might prison rape us under certain circumstances when they're not stoning us to death and pushing us off buildings! What could go wrong?

>>7898796
Constantine the first established the earliest known Roman Catholic canon and also spread this form of Christianity by force through Roman law

It is likely that all "Christian" lore borrowed from paganism in the modern Bible came first from Constantine who wanted to make the transition of his society easier

>>7898803
>I'm gay but I don't like dick.
Are you sure you're not bisexual?

>>7898770
nice fanfic

>>7898807
He never raped me. He just pretended to. God he was so hot I just wanted to hit that ass it was torture. Fucking Islam.

>>7898818
No way. I don't like pussy either or femininity hot.
I'm legit a top.

>>7898814
Establishing the canon does not equal 'rewriting'. You're speculating a lot of Zeitgeist tier stuff but my point is not to defend Christianity, just to point out that a lot of what Jesus said in the Gospels (whether you believe he was a real guy or a fairy tale is irrelevant to my point) was a more forgiving and tolerant spin on OT mythology, and a lot more conducive to modern liberal-democratic values than the OT was and than the Koran is.

>>7898832
I've never read the Quran so I can't comment but you're pretty much right.
I am a gay catholic and pretty much ignore all of the Old Testament because it's repulsive and the parts of Paul's epistles that are homophobic cos he didn't know Jesus so wtf does he know.
All Jesus preached was love and respect. He said the two commandments to follow are Love Thy God and Love Thy Neighbour, and all he said about sex was don't have sex outside of marriage.
So I'm going to stop being a man slut, find a husband and fuck his brains out.
Christians can be gay and happy.

>>7898827
It happened, get a life.

>>7898832
Jesus of Nazareth was a real guy, most likely similar to Gandhi, a pacifist protest leader standing up to the Roman Empire just as Gandhi did to the British Empire. This also explains why he was executed by Romans and sarcastically called King of the Jews by Romans.

The fairy tale stuff was added to make him resemble a Roman god or demi-god, and also his message was altered to be more pro-Roman ("render unto Caesar what is Caesar's")

>>7898770
What country was this?

>>7898868
Um stfu. Jesus is God get the fuck over it.
No one worships Gandhi.
Accept the Lord or go to hell. Your choice.

>>7898902
I'd rather not spend my afterlife in a gated community with you. Hell it is.

>>7898895
England

>>7898908
Honestly read the bible and it will transform your life.
When Christianity is forced on you as a kid it's hard to swallow. But reads the bible as an adult and go to church and see how much it transforms your life.
I was a drug addicted slut who ended up in prison and the only thing that saved me was God.
Go to church seriously and read the New Testament

>>7898770
what did he look like face wise

>>7898929
I prefer history to religion. To me, the simple truth is that Jesus of Nazareth was a man, and while the legacy of his teachings in history is fascinating, I could never believe in Jesus as a god. I was raised Roman Catholic, went to Catholic school, the whole shebang. I am familiar with the ritual and teachings, more importantly I am familiar with the history. I could never seriously believe in it. It's nice it helped you turn your life around and I don't act autistic when I go in a church for a wedding, but I am 100% an atheist.

Ask yourself: why Yahweh? Why not one of the other gods? Out of all the world's religions you just happen to have the only true one? I just see your beliefs the same way you see all those other religions.

>>7898936
He was good looking. He was like a white skinned Syrian. He was handsome with shoulder length wavy hair.
Like the old me would want to hook up with him if I saw him in the street.

>>7898956
He was a man and god. How can you turn your back on how you were raised?
I have massive issues with the church such as not having female priests but it's all true.
The Holy Spirit has spoken to me, God has spoken to me. I know he is real.
I suppose if you've never had direct contact with him it's harder to believe.

But you need to go to confession on Saturday and go to mass on Sunday and receive communion. Talk to your priest.

>>7895587
That ignores that the New Testament takes precedence over and supersedes the Old Testament for Christians.

>>7898977
>How can you turn your back on how you were raised?
Because I don't believe any of the supernatural stuff the Church teaches as fact.

>it's all true
You can't confront the question of why the Church should be right and all the other religions wrong.

You can't confront the Roman manipulation of the early Church and the Emperor's hand in development of Biblical canon.

You must have thought about this stuff before. Do you really believe in Yahweh or are you just telling yourself that you do? If you really do, have you never thought about why you do?

>>7899005
Yahweh is the Old Testament god. I believe in Jesus.
I question catholic doctrine all the time. I seriously ask my priest so many questions but he's the first one to give me straight answers.
I was saying my rosary and read the biblical text regarding the ascension of the holy mother and ITS NOT IN THE FUCKING BIBLE! I have to ignore that stuff though because I have spoken to God, I have been guided by the spirit and when I receive communion I know god is present.
Fuck of course I have massive issues with canon law but that goes along with being a catholic.
I might convert to Church of England, Methodist, baptist who knows.
I am stooped in catholic tradition though and I revere the holy mother and I think the other denominations don't give the holy mother the respect she deserves so I'll put up with the many shortfalls the Catholic Church has for her.
Also communion in a Catholic Church is different to an Anglican Church. I believe transubstantiation definitely happens.

I guess being raised with it is why I've never been able to shake it off, but I have communicated with God and The Holy Spirit so I know for a fact they are real.
I know the devil is real too.

Do what you want I suppose, I'll pray for you. But understand you were lucky to be raised a Christian. I hope all good people will go to heaven..:. But the bible clearly says only those who accept Christ the lord will go to heaven so maybe they won't.

But trust me god is real.

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>Yahweh is the Old Testament god. I believe in Jesus.
They are the same god... shouldn't you know this already?

>Church of England, Methodist, baptist
Why not Native American folk religion?

Or perhaps Zoroastrianism, since you like the virgin mother so much?

Give me a reason Christianity is more believable than the other religions. (protip: you can't)

>I believe transubstantiation definitely happens
literally blood magic

>I guess being raised with it is why I've never been able to shake it off
I was raised with it and shook it off pretty early. You could too if you thought about it harder, maybe looked into the history of Biblical canon a little more, or just did some soul searching.

>I have communicated with God and The Holy Spirit
>I know the devil is real too
I think it is more likely that you have not been in communication with any supernatural entities, good or evil.

>I'll pray for you
>I hope all good people will go to heaven
Pic related shows what happens to you according to each religion/philosophy depending on your beliefs.

You're taking a risk, same as me.

>But trust me god is real.
Trust me, none of the gods/demons/eldritch creatures are actually real.

>>7899107
Jesus created a new covenant. Yahwehs covenant was torn up and Jesus created a new one, that's what I mean when I say I follow Jesus not Yahweh.

You won't believe me but I'm Christian because I have communicated with god and I know he is real.
I have been tortured by demons and praying on my rosary kept them at bay.
I've been through a horrible year and the devil has tried to attack me all my life and I have been protected by god and his angels.
You've probably been spoken to by god you just don't see it.

I think you should go to church and read the New Testament.

Also I am educated on religion I used to be like you. Turned my back on god and look where I ended up.

I know about the council of Nicaea, the fact there were four popes at once, that a lot of doctrine is based on bollocks.
The fact is the message of Jesus is all I care about so I ignore the corruption f the church because my faith in Christ is what's important.

God bless

>>7899003
If by "takes precendence over" and "supersedes", you mean that there are countless passages in the New Testament saying that the Old Testament is still 100% factual and the law, then...sure.

>>7890870
Trap one of the head Imams in a gay affair and have the visual evidence of it.
Just a suggestion.

>>7890870
We dont,Islam should disappear forever and americans shouldnt take a single refugee

>>7891007
The Quran has also been edited.
http://bible.ca/islam/islam-quran-changed-editing-process.htm

>>7890870
How did we reform Germany?

File: 1489374989197.png (396KB, 633x902px) Image search: [Google]

396KB, 633x902px

What did he mean by this?

>>7891123
Homosexuals can spread aids reliability, why wouldn't it work for Islam? It's basically the same.

>>7890870
you don't
LGBT rights is only a concept in western, christian nations
stop with the overtolerance shit and recognize that some ideologies are not compatible with western civilization
assimilate or get the fuck out policy is how you fix muslims

>>7891023
... LOL you're arguing that it's BETTER on abortion because they prefer to kill babies? hahahahaha, no, it's just another example of barbarians being barbarians
muslims are murderous because they do not value human life, you are very like them in that way

>>7899228
What's most important is how Christians interpret it and Catholics, Orthodox and all major protestant denominations all agree that the New Testament supersedes and takes precedence over the Old Testament.

>>7891007
The Council of Nicea just decided which books were a part of the official canon, they didn't edit the texts of the books.

>>7910415
>t. brainlet

>>7910432
Then why do you see so many Christians arguing against homosexuality ``because muh luvitacuss".