Is MGTOW the best way to understand women?

>>7884817
How about your go your own way back to your fucking echo chamber because any kind criticism I give will be called shaming you and I don't feel like dealing with your bull shit?

>>7884817
Is going MTF the ultimate MGTOW?

>>7884878
How would any superior man sacrificing his masculinity to become a female parasite be MGTOW?

>>7884817
>Is only speaking to men the best way to understand women?

Yes OP that makes perfect sense.

>>7885072
Doesn't it? Men are truthful creatures but women lie about everything including themselves

>>7885103
Even if that was true, inspecting the lying thing will teach you more about it than speaking about it with other people who don't know anything about it.

If you wanted to learn about a camouflaging octopus you'd try to see past its defences not just sit around and talk to your buddies about what the octopus might look like.

>>7885103
> Men are truthful creatures
> Women lie about everything
I think you're already MGTOW, anon.
Or maybe I'm lying because I'm a woman and that means I lie about everything.
WAIT.
I could use this power for the greater good.
TRUTH: The entire world is always at war
TRUTH: Everybody will die of cancer
TRUTH: Half-Life 3 will not be released ever

>>7884888
What is less separate a path from women than replacing the role of one with myself?

>>7885103
>Men are truthful creatures
False. Men can be politicians, lawyers, and used car salesmen.

>>7885169
lol

>>7884878
TERFs seem to think so.

>>7884888
Some mra/mgtow types are probably AGP trans. I was when I started getting into mra stuff in the late 2000s. I discovered modern transgenderism way too late unfortunately, although to be fair AGP transition was probably way more difficult back then in Canada anyways, so I probably would of said fuck it anyways.

>>7884817
>Is MGTOW the only space for men to truly understand women?
I think simply having limited access to most societies would show you what most women are like, assuming you don't have the biases of the world implanted in you in the first place.
>Are gay men still gynocentric?
Yes, because everyone is. Gay men especially (the majority) because often times, females were the only ones who didn't treat them like shit.

Something mgtow gets wrong is that, yes, women tend to show some toxic behaviors, but men do to. Just they usually show them in different ways.
I'd probably be mgtow if I hadn't seen how truly cruel men could be through out my life.
I might just be bias because I'm less invested in how women view and treat me though.

>>7886105
>Gay men especially (the majority)
What do they do? Obviously it can't be expressed through subservient relationships the same way as straight men.

>>7886056
>TERFs seem to think so.
Why are TERFs against MGTOW?

>>7886172
They buy into the whole "women are oppressed/treated unfairly" claim.
They see the femininity in themselves being actively shamed, so sometimes they assume that femininity in and of itself is considered bad. But it's not, that's why the word 'effeminate' exists. It means "of a woman", and only can refer to non-women. Femininity brings males no benefit. Femininity is there to control males via their desires, but a male can't control another male with that type of influence (unless he's gay, i.e. 1-3% of the male population). I guess some gay guys don't see this.

Also, one of the male's natures is to rip other men down to keep the group safe. If a male skews from what is expected of him, other men will naturally try to harm/shame him as a means of control. Aside from what he said in the video (this being a way of gaining access to women by destroying enemies) it's also there for group safety, because a man who doesn't live up to his expectations will weaken the groups defenses/offenses. It damages unity for one, and often times, the man in question is exhibiting a behavior that is not useful to group safety, like being sensitive. This has no place on the battlefield. So men are cruel to each other for that reason as well.
And guess which demographic gets the brunt of this group dynamic? It's gay guys. So they're forced out of the group (unless they play straight), and who's left? Women. And women don't usually care about homosexuality among men. Most see it as an amusement even.
This is why gay males turn to females, and become especially gynocentric.

>>7886235
They're cool with it in theory, but they despise the misogyny they display. Not to mention MGTOWs don't just fade away and live their lives, they hang around and make a lot of noise and try to recruit.

>>7886295
>and try to recruit.
But surely that isn't a problem? The fewer men interested in women the better, isn't that the TERF way?

>>7886318
True they should be glad, they're not the smartest bunch. They get hung up on the misogyny though, rather than thinking of the big picture. Although maybe a large ever growing faction of blatantly misognyist nerds existing might be scary to them.

>>7886363
There are a lot of Elliot Rodgers-types among the MGTOWs. It's not much good for men to abjure women if men are still obsessed with killing them. You see shit like that Andrew Peter Nolan guy or whoever claiming it should be legal to kill women, for example.

Quite frankly, if these guys just turned gay and concentrated on sucking cock instead of incessantly bitching about women/making threats online/etc, it would be best for everybody: women in general, straight men, radfems, and MGTOW themselves.

>>7886056
Sorry, what's AGP trans? Autogynephilia? Or am I thinking of something else?

>>7885169
I'm a man, and everything I say is truth

TRUTH: Suck my dick
TRUTH: And my cock
TRUTH: And my schlong

:^)

>>7887861
(^:

>>7884817
MGTOW is just a good alternative to worshipping your life to women, thats all.

There are gay cucks out there but also straight cucks.

The concept of putting a woman on a pedestal and seeing concurrents in every other male is just ass but unfortunately you'll see it in every aspect of life in western civilization and even other parts of the world.
Look at MGTOWs doing it differently and actually giving out advice for free to young men. And other than what /b/ and other boards have become its not just about superficial relationship problems, rather about how society treats both genders.

Most Imprisoned are male, most homeless are male and males commit more successfull suicides than females.
Those are the problems feminists doesnt give a fuck about so we have to take care of those by ourselves.

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>>7884817
Yes. It's the final redpill.

>>7884817
>Are gay men still gynocentric?
The only reason this would be is because of active campaigning to include the female (feminist) voice in every gay man thing ever.

If we're gonna get technical, being gay is less gynocentric than MGTOW because MGTOW still revolves entirely around women, but with a negative perception of them.
Meanwhile being gay revolves alsmost entirely around penises.

Ask a gay man why he's gay and he'll say "because dicks".
Ask MGTOW why they're MGTOW and he'll say "because women".

>>7885103
You seem to broadly stereotype both halves of the human population, not only demonizing women, claiming every woman is a liar, but you also idolize men, stating they're by nature truthful.

While I probably can't convince you that women are also human, and deserve the same rights as you, I can affirm, with utmost confidence, everybody has lied once in their life.

Because lying is the basis for social interaction, and that's alright, people lie to hide the truth, but when this truth is uncomfortable, or the person who's being lied to can't handle or understand it.

And even if you try to ignore that, men still lie. Barack Obama is a man, and he as a politician has lied hundreds of times, every single actor in a role is basically lying with every line they speak, a lot of banks are owned by men, and holy shit do bankers lie.

You seem to divide all people into black and white, and that's an ignorant, moronic and childish way to observe the world.

>>7887861
None of those were statements, at best they're requests or commands, and guess what? They're also not arguments either.

>>7888631
Barack Obama was a mangina, not a real man! He certainly wasn't MGTOW!!

>>7888631
The entire basis for groups like MRA and MGTOW is taking anecdotes and spinning them as fact. Even if they themselves have lied plenty in their life, they don't register it as being part of their nature. But if they are being rejected by a woman, or hurt by one, they take it so badly that they act as if every woman will reject them or hurt them forever. And of course they will, with a rotten attitude like that. So their worldview that women are cruel and untrustworthy will be validated again and again.

No amount of arguing on the Internet will change their mind if their entire life is filled with that nasty cycle. The moment they find a group that agrees with them, they will close themselves in that bubble, only peeking out to scream at people who disagree with them. They only ever change their minds if they choose to let themselves see and understand things that disagree with their ideals.

>>7888836
>implying MRAs and MGTOWs are the same thing

>>7888852
Nope, I'm saying that similar desires will lead people to both groups. Which is something that both MGTOWs and MRAs have acknowledged.

>>7888836
If everyone else besides psychotherapists calls them whiners for pointing out their issues then why not talk about it in an MGTOW environment? i mean i don't like it either that they didn't accomplish great inventions for humanity or whatever but at least MGTOWs can calm down and breath in for a moment in their environment and maybe even sit there and analyze the situation like turd flinging monkey does. what most MGTOWs point out is that man and woman communicate and behave differently and thus shouldn't been rated equally in their actions. if men are more aggressive than women they have also the ability to convert those aggressions into something more usefull. same is for women and their emotional and social skills but lying and manipulating others is the flipside of this coin and every MGTOW fully recognizes that. it's not good to insist onto it but most people seem to do the exact opposite which is claiming that women are more or less perfect and all the suffering was caused by men (which is bs, especially in the western civilization).

>>7888895
No. MRA's are legit and I've never met one whose story wasn't first hand. MGTOW are a hate group who are just so stupid we laugh instead of shiver when one shows up.

>>7885169
> triggered.png

>>7889196
Nice first hand story.

>>7889245
How do you view MRA's and MGTOW as even really comparable?
>MRA: I was fucked over by women so I would like to spread awareness that men are also capable of being fucked over and provide resources for those in bad situations like mine.

MGTOW: I cannot get my dick wet so women are evil and we should kill all of them.

>>7889257
put that straw man into your ass

>>7889282
Bring me some MGTOW to prove me wrong. I keep asking people to, but it keeps not happening.

Any time I point out a MGTOW and go, "Look at that crazy shit!" I am told I am going after the low hanging fruit, and redirected to an even crazier one!

>>7889257
>I was fucked over by women
Not just women. Gynocentric government systems and societal standards too.

mgtow is the literal definition of fucking faggotry

>>7889182
>same is for women and their emotional and social skills

you do know that MGTOWs like Turd Flinging Monkey claim emotional and social skills are literally useless, right?

>>7889300
i feel like feminism did two things, it emancipated and empowered women but it was also a process of redefining female identities and narratives.

i feel like MRA/MGTOW are part of a broader awakening to the fact that such a process of redefinition.

the reason most -public- MGTOW/MRA sympathisers are batshit is because the whole meninist movement is in its valerie solanas stage where the sole notion of some group or movement talking about men's rights, identities etc is perceived as weird

i'd say the fact that there's an evolving discussion is something positive.

>>7887668
Yes! I used to read The Spearhead a lot back in the day and that Peter Andrew Nolan retard would always shitpost his bullshit.

>>7889257
I've sensed that MRA/MGTOW is different but related. I can get behind MRA to some degree.

>>7887773
Yes autogynephilia.

>>7889543
Interesting perspective. Yes just as feminism had to go through its batshit crazy stage so does meninism. Perhaps one day even numales will be subtly MRA.

>>7889312
What got me away from MRA thinking is, how is it an individual woman's fault that society can be gynocentric and misandric sometimes?

>>7889543
>Implying "Meninism" is a thing

>>7889543
Except none of the groups and fictional groups you've tried to pretend are one thing have gone around committing terrorism, trying to kill people or trying to shame people into suicide.

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>>7885169
say it in red!

Yes gay men can be gynocentric in my experience.. They often are. I know only one gay man that isn't gynocentric.

>>7890380
Is he masc like Based Jack Donovan?

>>7889543
>the whole meninist movement is in its valerie solanas stage
"meninist" isn't a thing and MRAs don't go shooting people.

>>7895459
So then what would you call Marc Lepine? Just an anti-feminist rather than a MGTOW or MRA?

>>7887861
TRUTH: You will live a long life
t. woman

>>7889235
> I was triggered
> Because I decided to say it
> #NotAllWomen
I'm not even a feminist but c'mon, is the idea that people aren't either 100% truthful or 100% liars so hard to believe?

>>7895516
Who said he wasn't MGTOW? I could see him being MGTOW. MRA and MGTOW aren't interchangeable.

Unless you are actively fighting against female privilege, you are gynocentric. Pretending that female privilege doesn't exist and should not be addressed is part of gynocentricism.

>>7898083
When I see based posts like this I always wonder which letter they are.

>>7898093
Let's bet on it, and hopefully they'll respond with the right answer. I'm gonna go with T (MtF).

>>7898100
I'd be happiest if T (mtf), but I expect G or B (male).

>>7898100
If there's so much female privilege, why are MtFs more likely to kill themselves? Shouldn't they be happy they're finally getting all the benefits of femininity?

>>7900234
Because they don't pass as females, genius.

>>7884817
Wouldn't homosexuality be the logical conclusion of MGTOW?

>>7900325
I dunno, even the "passing" mtfs are often pretty miserable

>>7900453
They lived significant chunks of their life as males. That will take a psychological tole.

>>7898083
How can you actively fight against female privilege?

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Most men are gynocentric irrespective of sexuality. Most women are also gynocentric irrespective of sexuality. Across the board.
I would even argue that most MGTOWs and MRAs are gynocentric to a degree.

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>>7898083
What boggles my mind is this rallying call to dismantle female privilege in the same way Leftists are attempting to dismantle male and white privilege. Do you not see the futility is this egalitarian nonsense? By reducing yourself to the same rhetoric Feminists use you become no different than they are; oppression olympics extraordinaire. There is no female privilege. There is no male privilege. Or racial privilege. Race and gender are not a sliding scale that rewards are meted out from.
People just are.

>>7910181
What you're saying is, feminism's seeking of additional female privileges should just be ignored and allowed to continue.

>>7888796
No true Scotsman fallacy, as any man who lies will be dismissed as just being manipulated by women.

But, to prove my point, realpolitik was invented by a man, so a man has lied before.

I really just wish there weren't any women. not in like, a hateful way. women aren't intolerable. I just politely wish they didn't exist. They really have nothing to offer me, since the vast majority of them don't understand my interests and vaginas are unattractive to me. if women just never existed, that would be great.

>>7917697
Who invented it? I know that Machiavelli was an early figure, but did he invent it? If so my special edition copy of the Prince feels even more special.

>>7917909
You are thinking of realism, which is not the same as realpolitik.

>>7917909
>>7918238
I honestly don't think anyone invented it, simplified it's just politics without consideration to ideology and ethics.

>>7918238
Machiavelli has been heavily associated with the realpolitik. Read his shit and tell me it doesn't fit.

>>7918252
I assumed as much. I was just curious from anon saying what anon said.

Are MGTOW's, dare I say it, /ourallies/?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_x0DVVGksA

>>7918394
Anyone against gender norms is our ally.

>>7918394
What a retard.

He can't even make an intro.

>>7918548

>It is not normal but the only reason they normalize this is because to them it is political correctness and it is seen as politically correct but in reality in my eyes it is not a normal trait and should not be considered normal.
>The only time I'm gonna have a real problem with a gay man is if that homosexual male forces me into convert into one myself which is when I'm gonna have a serious problem with them which in some cases there are gay men who do this.
>There are many transgenders out there who are now claiming there is more than two genders but if you look in the spiritual realm of things there is only two genders there is only male and female in the spiritual realm.

KEK

>>7918394
>But what disturbs me even more, is when the societal norm encourages this
>For men to become gay
>But in reality, in my eyes it's not a normal trait and it should not be considered normal. And the reason I say this is because it is totally unorthodox for a male to become a homosexual...

I'm convinced, finally a solid argument against homosexuality:
- Society encourages people to "convert" to homosexuality
- But it is not normal
- And should not be accepted as normal
- Because it is not accepted as normal in society

Not a single strawman here, just listen yourselves.

Seriously though, MRA's have a lot of great points from what I've seen, and are truly a progressive and inclusive community that are challenging gender roles (for women AND men) much more than feminists nowadays. I don't know much about MGTOW except for a pretty interesting youtuber I listened to a bit before (Colttaine) but other than that I have seen mostly shit like this video.

>>7918621
>Society encourages people to "convert" to homosexuality
But that literally does not happen.
Unless you count "let's ditch women and go our own way" but that would be an argument against MGTOW.

>>7918621

But society doesn't encourage individuals to "convert" to being gay it just, at most, supports them in being gay if they happen to be so. Even THAT doesn't happen given how widespread homophobia and whateverphobia is still.

And the appeal to normalcy is pure cringe for reasons that don't need to be explained unless you're younger than 13.

>>7885169
>women are funny, get over it

>>7918621
>MRA's have a lot of great points from what I've seen, and are truly a progressive and inclusive community that are challenging gender roles (for women AND men) much more than feminists nowadays.
the movement for trans people then.

>>7886235
TERFs are against everything because they are valerie solanas-tier female supremacist who think anyone who isn't a cis lesbian women is evil.

They're against trans women, they're against trans men, they hate gays and bis, they even hate intersex people for fuck's sake.

>>7923176
>they even hate intersex people for fuck's sake.
What the hell?

>>7923133
>trans people
>any reason to be MRAs

>>7910181
>What boggles my mind is this rallying call to dismantle female privilege in the same way Leftists are attempting to dismantle male and white privilege.
>There is no female privilege. There is no male privilege. Or racial privilege.
tl;dr leave female privilege alone!

>>7923176
>They're against trans women, they're against trans men, they hate gays and bis, they even hate intersex people for fuck's sake.
All feminists defend all those people. Don't listen to a few tiny groups on the internet and think they represent feminism.