Questions as an Ally

>>7860546
>Must I, as a cis-gendered heterosexual man, only be allowed to seek solidarity with other men?
What exactly do you mean? Who do you perceive as disallowing you from doing otherwise?

Just be a decent fucking person.
This applies to everyone ever.

>>7860583
I perceive that I am being disallowed by people who identify outside the cis-gendered, heterosexual male identity category and being demonized due to the sheer desire to interact, befriend, and seek solidarity with women (cis, trans, heterosexual, and homosexual) as a cis-male due to a presupposed belief that I have a desire to reinstate patriarchal privilege before even seriously interacting with me. Perhaps I'm venting because I feel lonely and quite detached from most people, but I still feel disallowed from seeking (and seeking is the key word in all of this) solidarity, something that I believed to be available to anyone who believes in the intersectional tenets of feminist and queer thought.

>>7860632
I hope I am being a decent person by practicing allyship and seeking to connect with other people though I may not identify with them personally.

>>7860657
We live in a gynocentrist society, not a patriarchy. Educate yourself.

>>7860674
See, the problem here is you seem to be trying to impress someone by showing how supporting you are. If being nice and caring was in your nature you wouldn't need validation.

>>7860674
>by practicing allyship
Let's hear it.

>>7860699
We'll, that's true and not true. "Impress" isn't the right word. I wish to be accepted and valued by the people I value. Can this not be applied the other way around? Doesn't everyone seek solidarity and validation with the people/places/things/ideas they assign importance to?

>>7860744
>We'll, that's true and not true.
>that's true
>and not true.
Doublethink.

>>7860712
How would you like to? I don't think writing about a specific instance of allyship (which is what I believe you are asking for?) would be beneficial, because it would reinstate a kind of tokenism to the person or people I have interacted with.

>>7860546
Nigga what? This isn't Tumblr. Just don't be a dick. You can associate with whoever you want. Oh, and stop trying to blame yourself for the actions of others. That's just a good rule in general.

>>7860766
No, you claim to be an ally, back up your claim.

You do not get to come here and proclaim your allyship with the onus on us to believe you.

>>7860546
Are you..... asking if segregation is how to be nice to us in the LGBT? Gonna have to ask you what the fuck you are on about. I am split. If you are this nice you should associate with everybody, but if you are this stupid I almost don't really want you feeling solid with me. Just, be you, let us be us, and we are all likely to get along. Just... the fuck, are you on about?

>>7860759
Yeah, I mean as a human being we hold with in us irreconcilable tensions, ambiguities, and paradoxes. This is what's described by Gloria Anzaldua as the "Mestiza Consciousness," is it not? These instances of, as you call, "double think," are used to liberate the individual from a kind of typecasting that is reinforced by either/or ideologies that create restrictive binaries.

>>7860790
Any philosopher who encourages you to think "is it not?" is anything but a great way to sound pretentious, Autistic, and retarded all at the same time AND leads you to think that double think is good, needs left on the book shelf only as a warning for the future.

>>7860781
Okay, I see your point. I devote most of my time outside school, work, and other social obligations attending women of Color Symposiums specifically created for non women of color in order to better learn how to be a better ally. I march in protests for women and queer identifying people as an ally, not to exclaim "look at me! Look at what I'm doing," but as a silent figure to open up space for those whose voices have been taken from them to speak and express their opinions and outrage at the authoritative bodies that oppress them. I do my best to check my privellege by not explaining things, and rather by asking questions in order to seek understanding and to potentially correct the unintentional ways that I reinstate my privileges that harm others. I'm not speaking from a pulpit of heterosexual male guilt, but attempting to reconcile with these complex intersectional issues that remain discussed and discursive within our society by asking these questions today and trying to seek understanding where I may have messed up (as is the human condition).

>>7860860
Dude, stop drinking the koolaid. No one is oppressed in western society.

t. a tranny who's really tired of identity politics

>>7860799
I think it's ableist for you to use the words "autistic," and "retarded" as insults. I think studying feminist, lesbian, women of color philosophers is the only way we have to remain outside of ignorance to the lives that others live.

>>7860860
>"I'm not speaking from a puplit of heterosexual male guilt"
>started a topic asking if he could even side with us fags, trannies, bisluts, and lezbos

I see now why you think double think is ok.
You seem nice, so please learn to drop the bull shit. I hate the phrase red pill, but red pill yourself.

>>7860860
>I stick up for black and Hispanic cis women
>this makes me an LGBT ally
Wrong.

The black and Hispanic communities are actually the most hostile to LGBT people. By siding unconditionally with them you are actively hindering LGBT progress in this country. I'm sorry OP but you are the furthest thing from an ally there is.

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>>7860875

>>7860883
I'm not sure what "red pilling" oneself even means. I know it's a saying used on /pol/ and other associated alt right groups. I'd appreciate a definition.

>>7860875
I am Autistic, you retard! Maybe you shouldn't be ableist in getting offended for those that you think are too stupid to get offended themselves.

And we are both white, but let me tell you that you probably haven't lived a life nearly has hard as mine, even if I had been born some manly man, because lemme tell ya, there are things out there so much worse than not being like you. Your desire to hear the perspectives of minorities is INSULTING! Life sucks because life sucks, not because we are a smaller demographic than you, that just doesn't help.

So stop, what would it be? "cishet splaning?" I don't know.

>>7860906
It means to educate yourself about issues like >>7860693

>>7860906
Basically it means do some research that isn't clouded by an ideological lens, i.e. lose the gender studies textbooks.

>>7860900
You are enacting the toxic in/out group philosophy that oppresses members of the LGBT+ community by asserting that there are no people of color that ALSO identify as LGBT+. This is the intersectionality that I am attempting to adopt here.

>>7860918
Perhaps I should. This is the first time I've heard that gynocentricm was the dominant belief of our culture.

>>7860926
Listen, dude. You seem nice, so I'm gonna lay this out for you. Different groups have different needs and different struggles. Intersectionality is a joke because people are more than just the labels we put on them. Basically, stop trying to solve everyone's problems at the same time. You'll just cause a bigger mess.

>>7860926
I did not say that and indeed the whole point of my post was out of concern for those people.

Stop harming LGBT people.

Stop coming into LGBT spaces, calling yourself an ally, then denying LGBT people's experiences and calling them liars.

>>7860943
That's your internalized gynocentrism speaking.

>>7860657
Here's the thing. It's not that having privilege means "sit down and shut up", it's more that you're just obligated to recognize how your privilege affects your thinking. Basically, what may seem easy or trivial to you may not be the same for someone who lacks some of your privileges. For example, an able-bodied person is likely to be oblivious to how much of an obstacle a curb or step is to someone confined to a wheelchair. Sure, if you took the time to think about it, you'd realize it, being privileged doesn't mean you're stupid - it's more than you just don't pay much attention to these things that don't affect you. Likewise, don't immediately reject outrageous-sounding claims of mistreatment or abuse coming from non-privileged people, as just because something seems outrageous to you because you've never experienced it, doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Again, it's not that you're not allowed to ever question what minorities say, just recognize that their experiences may include things you've never even considered. So if you want to seek solidarity with other demographic groups, I personally don't see a problem with it. Just do it because it's what you want to do, not because you think you'll be rewarded or thought a better person for it - that's basically being shallow and misleading. And recognize that your experiences are different from theres, and realization of these differences may be surprising to you.

>>7860693
Even today, women are valued mainly for their value as property, not as human beings in their own right. Women receiving preferential treatment in some areas doesn't make it a patriarchy, it's about power, not luxury - and living in a gilded cage does not give you power.

>>7860943
If you're serious about this, check out "The Red Pill" documentary. It was made by an ex-feminist woman who tried to expose MRAs as misogynistic but actually came around to their way of thinking. It's got tons of empirical data and logic, so much so that feminists tried to shut the film down bc it made them look bad.

>>7860907
That was not implied in what I said, but not I understand your defensiveness about the issue.

I agree. My desire to hear the perspectives of minorities would be insulting IF I demanded it from those who were not willing. I assumed, because this is a board for conversation and discussion, that those minorities who wished to speak would.

>>7860965
>doesn't make it a patriarchy
Correct, we are not in a patriarchy.

Sadly equality is a long way away, but that's why we need to fight against male expendability.

>>7860965
I appreciate this post. Thanks for informing me.

>>7860965
>women are valued mainly as property
Citation fucking needed. I'm sorry, which gender gets screwed out of most their earnings, property, and even children in nearly every divorce and family case? Don't even try and tell me that society or even the legal system values men for more than just their work/stuff.

>>7860999
You're appreciating the stupidest post in this entire thread. You know that, right?

>>7860990
Based anon

>>7861005
No, I don't. Perhaps you should explain why?

Women actually have more benefits than men if you live in America. As a female I actually have to recognize that my gender will almost always win in court cases against the opposite sex, and won't be assumed to be an oppressor on a regular basis by feminist cucks.

>>7860985
Not defensive, angry, there is a very real difference.
Now, alright, everybody, step back. I am about to red pill this fucker, even though I still hate that word.

>On coming here in the first place
I am going to assume you are not a troll because I am like that. You came to us because you are a part of an ideology that puts us on a pedestal.

You spew your bull shit and you try to correct us when we call bull shit. So let's be clear, either we are right and your ideology is bull shit, or we are wrong therefore proving us on some level right because not nearly enough of this place is /pol/ for us all just to be Uncle Toms.

>On intersectionality
I am very tired of your escoteric in group words that cause little red wavy lines on my screen, but whatever.(And no I will not add them to my dictionary because I am not scum,)

FIRST OFF! You do not know what intersectional feminism is if you think that it is poised to deal with black LGBT. It is not about in/out group at all. It is that they are more religious and therefore frown upon the LGBT community, much like Muslims.
>inb4 #NotAll
No shit, we aren't brain dead. One of my three closest friends is actually a pretty devout Sunni born and raised in Karachi, Pakistan who just doesn't give a shit about my love of dick. But these great people like my main man Aamir? Exceptions, not the rule itself. Certain races traditionally don't much care for the LGBT community. This doesn't mean all, this does not mean they magically cease to produce gays. No it is not white supremacy because this includes white in some parts of the world. It is cultural, and we in the West were smart enough to leave behind a lot of our Christian roots for secular values. As have really a majority of blacks and Hispanics, IN AMERICA AND CANADA! WHERE WE HAVE DECENT PUBLIC EDUCATION ENOUGH FOR THEM TO REALIZE THERE IS LIKELY NO SKY DADDY TO JUDGE COCK SUCKERS!

>to be continued

>>7861020
>implying privilege outside of class and wealth is real
>implying feminist theory is the correct lens through which to view the world
>implying anyone in the west is oppressed
>implying women have it worse than men as a whole in the west

>>7860900
You're encouraging the them vs us mentality. This is a known fascist trick, just like how Hitler blamed everything on the Jews so the German working class wouldn't question their circumstances and begin to understand what the REAL cause of the problems is. Yes, we do have to acknowledge that many non-Western cultures are pretty backwards on LGBT rights, but positioning them as the enemy is just an excuse to distract LGBT from their poor treatment. Whenever they question things, they're just told "Look, there's some Muslims/blacks/whatever over there being oppressive" even though the ones who are responsible for anti-LGBT legislation are usually white.

>>7860906
It basically means choosing to indoctrinate yourself with far-right propaganda. The INTENDED connotation of the term is to free yourself from the lies of the mainstream media and become a free thinker, but in practice most people who claim to be "redpilled" just end up replacing CNN with Breitbart.

>>7860907
Having slurs used against you doesn't mean you're entitled to use them against others.

>>7860999
You ignore the actual posts pointing out what you are doing wrong >>7860949 and how you are failing to be an ally, while 'appreciating' the posts that parrot the assumptions you already believe.

You are abusing this LGBT space and using it to denigrate us. You are boasting about how bad an ally you are and promising to be worse in future, and closing your eyes when we tell you what we need.

You are part of the worst side of our society, the side that harms LGBT people.

>>7861053
>being red pilled is indoctrination
"Guys, stop trying to leave! We're not the cult, everyone else is!"

>>7861016
I'm glad somebody appreciates my posts!

>>7860990
I meant doesn't make it not a patriarchy.

And if by male expendability you mean things like the draft, that's actually basically a consequence of the patriarchy, specifically the idea that women are basically fragile works of art and not suited for combat. Now, the draft is bad for another reason, because it's basically slavery, but that itself is not really a gender-related issue. But without the patriarchy (and assuming it wasn't replaced by a matriarchy) there would be no such thing as a gender-segregated military, or gender-segregated anything really, except in VERY specific circumstances.

>>7861001
The reason why men lose their children in divorce cases is because they're less likely to fight for it in court. It's no more of a "problem" than the wage gap.

>>7861028
The patriarchy thinks that belonging to a demographic group that frequently commits violent crimes means you deserve to be treated harshly, EVEN IF YOU YOURSELF HAVE NOT DONE ANYTHING WRONG. That is the reason why men are treated worse in court - because the wrongdoing of men as a group is applied to individuals.

>>7861102
>specifically the idea that women are basically fragile works of art and not suited for combat
That's just physical reality.

>>7861102
>"Women's problems are a result of patriarchy!"
>"Men's problems are their own fault!"
Doublethink.jpg

>>7861110
>the patriarchy thinks
Ever think it's just that society treats men like garbage, not that their secret club backfired?

>>7861040
>>implying privilege outside of class and wealth is real
So if someone is less likely to be punished for the same crime than other people of the same class and wealth, that isn't privilege?

>>7861066
It's true though. I've never met a "red pilled" person who thinks for themselves, they just take the "anti-establishment" meme too far, and believe any nonsense as long as it comes from someone who is "anti-establishment". Questioning things is good, but most people are either unable or unwilling to break free from the slave mentality and instead just end up seeking a new master.

>>7861020
continued from >>7861035
So, this stupidity, >>7860985
It is not insulting because you are demanding it, it is insulting because you are not listening! We are telling you that your previous concept is just a loud minority(put not intended) who invited you into their echo chamber!

And we are not ignorant to your views, because we got the "come be a feminist!" invite well before you did! So stop trying to educate us on it! I probably know more than you from bell hooks all the way up to Kat Blaque!

>>7861053
>Red-Pilled just means to get indoctrinated elsewhere!
That is a new fucking word for you so don't just throw it around like poppers in a bar where everybody's suicide note is already written. Yes, some people go to other ideologies after realizing the dominant one is bull shit. That does not make the dominant one less bull shit!

>"a known fascist trick"
It is also a known Communist trick, a known religious trick, a known military trick, a known King's trick, a known court trick, what is your point? "Hitler was a vegetarian!" is the meat of your argument. And yeah, by statistic, they are less down with gays. Get over it. The argument is not that we should kill the blacks to save the gays, just that, well, your world view of whites vs all minorities in a unified front, or even that it should be that way for the sake of the minorities, is complete crap.

>"Having slurs used against you doesn't mean you're entitled to use them against others."
I am "entitled" to say whatever the fuck I want, dumb ass, just not to get whatever reaction I want. And I call you dumb ass because Autistic is not a slur. I was not "called" Autistic, I AM Autistic! The one who "used that slur" against me was a fucking psychiatrist! Get your shit straight!

>>7861102
>Men don't fight for their children in a divorce case!
Do men also not fight for freedom after committing the same crime as a woman? Do men not fight against prison rape? Do men not fight against random violence?

>>7861040
"Implying privilege outside class and wealth is real"
It is and is not, this is what the conversation must be intersectional. Race, sex, class, wealth cannot stand Allison ne because all influence one another.

>>7861114
It's NOT physical reality when a weak man is considered more acceptable than a stronger woman.

>>7861119
No, I brought up the wage gap issue, which most men say isn't a problem because women "chose" to take lower paying jobs. Just like men "choose" not to fight for children in divorce cases.

There's two possibilities.

Possibility 1: People are 100% responsible for their own actions, they are never pushed into doing things against their interests by societal forces.
Conclusion: The wage gap isn't a problem, neither is men losing their children in court cases. If people were really bothered by these things, they'd make different choices.

Possibility 2: There is no true free will, everyone's actions and choices are influenced by society.
Conclusion: Both the wage gap and men losing their children in divorce cases are bad, because both are forms of people being manipulated by society to make decisions against their own interests.

>>7861138
I don't see how that justifies intersectionality. Not everyone has the same problems, even within a "marginalized" group.

>>7861138
Cannot stand *alone

>>7861128
It's not "backfiring", the patriarchy is not a "secret club", and while patriarchy is about the EXCLUSIVE BENEFIT OF MEN, it isn't for the BENEFIT OF ALL MEN. Just like those "white pride" types - they don't like non-whites, but they're okay with all whites either, just those whites who happen to agree with them.

>>7861153
Go to Steven Crowder's YT channel and watch the recent video where the scrawny dude and the lady who does crossfit arm wrestle. I'd say you'd change your stance when presented with conflicting evidence, but I'm not sure you're able to do that.

>>7861138
Your right, there are COUNTLESS privileges besides wealth/class.

Quotas, affirmative action, laws protecting one group but not another, exclusive organizations, scholarships and spaces allowed for some but not others, etc.

>>7861153
>It's NOT physical reality when a weak man is considered more acceptable than a stronger woman.
Weak man has more potential than most strong women, testosterone is one hell of a thing. And besides, 0.01% outliers don't matter when it comes to stuff like drafts.

>>7861163
For a society that "exclusively benefits men", I sure don't see many benefits for them. No affirmative action, longer sentences than women for the same crime, the ability to have their genitals mutilated at birth, no reproductive rights, no domestic abuse shelters... It's almost like you've inverted reality...

>>7861135
>That is a new fucking word for you so don't just throw it around like poppers in a bar where everybody's suicide note is already written. Yes, some people go to other ideologies after realizing the dominant one is bull shit. That does not make the dominant one less bull shit!
I never said anything about how the dominant one isn't bullshit. I just said that most people mistakenly believe that they're learning to think for themselves, but they are really just switching to a different brand of propaganda.

>>7861135
>"Hitler was a vegetarian!" is the meat of your argument.
No, because "Hitler was a vegetarian" is not a fundamental part of why Hitler was bad, but the them vs us mentality is a fundamental part of why fascism is bad. YOUR argument is basically saying that
>Christians believe that Christ is the son of God, therefore if I believe that Christ is the son of God I am a Christian
and
>Christians breathe air, therefore if I breathe air I am a Christian
are both equally valid.

>>7861188
It's almost like none of those things happened until after people started fighting against the patriarchy.

>>7861197
What? Are you retarded or just so far up your ass you aren't able to see properly?

>>7861202
Oh, so they had affirmative action and domestic abuse shelters in the 1860s?

>>7861057
The reason why I ignored that post was because that person was denying their perpetuating of toxic in/out group mentality/modes of exclusion, all while failing to consider intersectionality by excluding people of color.

However, what I am apologietic about is that they, whether as an individual speaking for themselves or people that do it wish to speak, felt that I was using an LGBT+ space to harm them. Because they said this and feel this way it is valid, and I acknowledge it entirely while also still intending to speak with those who wish to speak.

>>7861138
No, it does or it does not. I would state that it does on a personal level, an academic level, a career level(though different groups to different ways)>>7861176
but not on a societal level because Americans as a whole still believe in meritocracy, and if that was what you meant you would have said it. You are just leaning on wu wu crap because you are cornered and on Facebook you can easily throw a "deep" smoke screen up instead of looking like a fucking imbecile.

>>7861163
There. Is. No. Patriarchy. Satan stands for nonbelievers, but not ALLL nonbelievers! You go on about respecting minority perspectives, but you are being told point blank, there is not a conspiracy ran by your people against ours, and you are insisting that it is, and that secret club thing would be the only way you would know about it and we wouldn't, so yeah. Pick one.

>>7861187
>inb4 patriarchy proved by draft
No amount of, "You assume men are stronger just because it is usually true!" covers up for the absolute terror that is war. Knowing you are going to go into it whether you like it or not if the bell tolls for thee is a chilling thought for any man who makes the mistake of dwelling on it.

>>7861195
>never said anything about the dominant one
Feminism is the dominant one, so yes, you have.

>"Hitler was a vegetarian" bad reply
I am telling you that you cannot shout Fascist and have it mean anything unless you can prove that it is being done by a Fascist. Hitler was a vegetarian, he liked Hugo Boss, he painted. That sounds more like a gay man than a Nazi but people shout, "CONNECTION TO HITLER!" anytime they cannot find something to pin on an enemy. You are not making a point. Saying THE FACT that homosexuality is less accepted statistically in some ethnic groups is not pinning anybody against each other. It is going, "Hey look, a fact!" You are the one playing identity politics!

>more coming

>>7861102
By any chance are you >>7829010 ? The everything is bad for women except the things which are bad for men which are men's fault thing is very familiar.

>>7861208
Do not come here into our space and lecture us as though we are the ones perpetuating harmful culture and condoning anti-LGBT hate.

>>7861215
Continuation of the above linked post.

>>7861206
Just because you are in our "minority space" does not mean that we are down with affirmative action. It is an insult. That low expectations thing was one of few political thoughts that Bush was right on the nose with. And we aren't saying fuck women's rights, or even the good things done by feminists, just fuck stupid rhetoric.

>>7861208
You ignored the post because it disagreed with you, let's be honest, snowflake. So much of you being here has to do with conflicting parts of you worshiping us and looking down on us. And I only enjoy either of those in the bedroom.

>they felt I was using an LGBT+ space to harm them
First of all, fuck off with that plus, second of all, they didn't have to feel it, because it is what you did, though harm is such a fucking dramatic way of saying it. Like hell, what are you?

>>7861237
See? So many posts like this. But you cannot see yourself as the one in the wrong. I feel like I am being harassed by a Jehova's Witness while actually being Jesus! Stop trying to incorrectly inform us about ourselves!

>>7861237
I will speak out against language that harms people of color even if it is within other oppressed groups or spoken by a person of color. Just as i I'll speak out against language used to harm LGBT+ people if it is used by people of color who identify or dis-identify as a member of the LGBT+ community.

>>7861274
You have made very clear you neither know nor care what harms us.

>>7861291
You're entitled to your opinion.

>>7861274
Then don't call yourself our ally.

>>7861274
Ehem,
Niger kike faggot hoe slut skank Autist retard nigger spear chucker squint flamer camel jockey rag head sand nigger monkey "boy" "thug" bitch whore chink Paki dot head towel head tranny lesbo lezbo biscum transvestite colored(yet somehow not of color?) Nips Japs Indians fire water
So, lots of minorities here, everyone but OP is actually, so, anyone harmed? No? Almost like they are lecturing us on shit they know nothing about!

>>7861296
If you feel like this, then ya know
>>7861298
T H I S
H
I
S

>>7861224
look at the posting style. he's obviously >>7855877

>>7861312
Also if he had two brain cells to rub together he'd know that Feminists don't talk about the Duluth model because it would be admitting that one of their successes was to the detriment of men. They certainly wouldn't talk about it with a male feminist.

>>7861296
>coming to LGBT spaces
>calling yourself an ally
>lie and ignore LGBT people
>patronize us
>tell us we're "entitled to our opinions"
Thank you for your permission to have our own thoughts, "ally"

>>7861304
>Niger kike faggot hoe slut skank Autist retard nigger

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBeqUWjiRZY

>>7861328
>>7861304
>>7861298
It appears that I've come to the wrong place to discuss and learn about intersectional issues within the LGBT+ experience despite how singular or monolithic they may be. I will stop posting now.

>>7861370
The problem isn't with the place OP.

>>7861370
YOU THINK WE ARE A MONOLITH?
Dude, look at ANY other post. We aren't one bit monolithic, we just banded in our hatred of some straight boy trying to simultaneously drown us in hetero guilt and talk down to us.

>>7861215
>There. Is. No. Patriarchy. Satan stands for nonbelievers, but not ALLL nonbelievers! You go on about respecting minority perspectives, but you are being told point blank, there is not a conspiracy ran by your people against ours, and you are insisting that it is, and that secret club thing would be the only way you would know about it and we wouldn't, so yeah. Pick one.
Except no one says patriarchy is a "conspiracy", either you're being intentionally obtuse or missing the point.

>>7861224
No, that wasn't me, I haven't even seen that thread.

>>7861258
>Just because you are in our "minority space" does not mean that we are down with affirmative action. It is an insult. That low expectations thing was one of few political thoughts that Bush was right on the nose with. And we aren't saying fuck women's rights, or even the good things done by feminists, just fuck stupid rhetoric.
I can't even tell what you're trying to say. I'm just pointing out that all these things say are evidence against patriarchy, didn't even exist until people made a conscious, coordinated effort to fight against patriarchy.

>>7861312
Yes, that was me actually.

>>7861326
For that to be true you'd need to prove that feminists actually have advocated for the Duluth model in a meaningful way (because as far as my experiences go, I've only seen it brought up by anti-feminists; if feminists really did think it was this great idea, they'd talk about it more, would they not?) AND that it is applied in a way which harms men.

>>7861461
>Conspiracy
They were saying that it isn't. They are a straight white male. They were claiming that they know it is true while all of us LGBT do not. This means either it is probable bull shit or that it is indeed a conspiracy he was given a chance to be a part of.

>fight against patriarchy
Ok, time to learn. Patriarchy is a second wave feminist thing. So your voting rights? No. Susan B Anthony was definitely a man hater and as it would seem a black hater too, but "fighting patriarchy" is not where women's rights come from.

>that it is applied in a way which harms men
READ WHAT IT IS! It inherently fucks over men! And it was designed by Ellen Pence, a fucking famous feminist! Know your own beliefs better than your opposition or your are wrong even if you are right, fool! Feminists don't bring it up, as I have said, because they are currently pretending to like men as to pick up helpful idiots like yourself.

But yes, you have invaded an LGBT space(no fucking +!) and spoken down to us for not drinking your Kool-Aid. Are other various flavors thrown around? Yes. But baby, it's a rainbow.

>>7861528
>READ WHAT IT IS! It inherently fucks over men!
I did read what it is, and it doesn't "inherently fuck over men". All it says is that certain patterns of male socialization contribute to abuse behavior. It's those patterns of male socialization that harm men, not the Duluth model itself. All the Duluth model does is acknowledging that pattern, rejecting the Duluth model doesn't stop it from existing.

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The social justice cult has infested every centre of higher education in the western world. It has taken over the vast majority of mainstream media in the western world. The social justice infestation has declared that if you're a Straight White Christian Male then you're not allowed to have a voice. So along comes a physical manifestation of #notyourshield and begins shining a spotlight on the dark recesses that have taken over American campuses. Milo Yiannopoulos reveals their hypocrisy to the world. To all the ignorant normies that have sent their children to these re-education camps.

Apart from revealing to the world that western universities are under the control of insane piece of shit traitors, Milo also pushes ideas that have long since become taboo. For instance, he pointed out that Jews have disproportionate influence, wealth and power in America. Another example is that the vast majority of all the good in the world was created by Europeans and that European imperialism, although still imperialism, was by far the most benign in history. All these non-European, anti-European cumbuckets that exist in Europe and European colonies should be thankful for near suicidal European benevolence. Former imperialist, non-European powers aren't nearly so benevolent.

By far, his greatest contribution to the Alt Right specifically is telling everyone that nobody should take the Alt Right seriously, that those in the Alt Right ironically hold certain opinions and whatnot. Thus when people are joking about non-Europeans or perverts, a member of the Alt Right can post hatefact memes or memetic hatefacts. Little by little, a normie's conditioning is whittled away. This is the only way forward as far as social change in the west is concerned. To hate on Milo or any others for being part of pedestal minorities is to miss the point entirely. The reason they push their identities is because they have to.

>>7861810
The Duluth model says to go in suspecting men. If I stated that gang culture socializes minorities into violence I would, in large portions of America, be far from wrong. Would you like a model that immediately implicates the darker skinned of the two?

And your socialization bull shit is unfounded. I don't know a single man who wasn't raised since day one to never hit a girl. The Duluth model says clearly to assume the guilt of the man in the situation.

>>7861847
>If I stated that gang culture socializes minorities into violence I would, in large portions of America, be far from wrong. Would you like a model that immediately implicates the darker skinned of the two?
You're talking about two separate things though. "Gang culture" is not exclusive or universal to dark skinned people. Whereas male socialization is something people are pretty much universally exposed to whether they want it or not.

>>7861847
>The Duluth model says clearly to assume the guilt of the man in the situation.
It doesn't say anything about guilt, it's only a theory of motivation. It arises from the pre-existing assumption that men are more likely to abuse women than vice-versa.

>>7862177
You obviously know very little about gangs, very little about being a real man(yes this fag is calling you a walking vagina), very little about socialization, and very little about the English language if you are not as lacking in the other categories as I had thought.

>>7862184
Also you have no idea how to use 4Chan. You can reply to several things at once.

And yes, assuming the guilt of a man IS going in with the assumption that men are more likely to be the ones doing the beating. And it has only been tested against men with no rehabilitation at all, so we have no good reason to believe it is good.

I hate this op so much

>>7862196
>it has only been tested against men with no rehabilitation at all
What do you mean by that?

>>7862298
I mean look up the methods by which it was tested. Also if you post another thing very quickly without having just linked all of your replying in one solid box I am going to start using those "harmful" words again.

>>7862322
Wiki says intervention programs based on the Duluth model were successful, which suggests (if not confirms) that there is some validity to the model. And what "harmful" words are you referring to? Is that supposed to be some inane attempt at a threat?

>>7862354
Once more, THE METHODS BY WHICH IT WAS TESTED. Wiki even explains the issues with the testing that showed it doing well. You'd know that if you read past your confirmation bias.

Harmful words because you act like words can hurt you without you letting them. If it works as a threat then awesome, but it was meant as a way of releasing my frustration towards your inability to look at information from outside of your echo chamber.

>>7862378
>Harmful words because you act like words can hurt you without you letting them. If it works as a threat then awesome, but it was meant as a way of releasing my frustration towards your inability to look at information from outside of your echo chamber.
Sounds like their words hurt you more than your words hurt them :^)

>>7860546
>people like me

Cheer up, OP. I'm 99% sure a shitposter like you wasn't lynching faggots in the 19th century. At best, someone like you would be helping in the minority underground. At worst, you'd be helping cruel alpha men terrorize minorities, too afraid to make a stand against injustice.

>>7860546
>Must I
No

Hoo boy. They really got you, huh?

I mean, either that, or you're trolling. It's pretty ineffective trolling if so, since this is not Tumblr.

I'm going to assume you're not trolling. For one thing, knock it off with the buzzwords. It's a hilarious hypocrisy of the left that they endlessly masturbate over the "underprivileged," then have no problems inventing academic buzzwords that make their rhetoric as inaccessible as possible to anyone who isn't economically "privileged" enough to throw thousands of dollars at a useless sociology degree.

...That's not me, by the way. I DID throw thousands of dollars at, at least, a soc minor and I was a big SJW for a long time. You have lots of time to back out of this project before you end up wasting your life on it, so please do. Take it from me, you will REGRET buying into this crap ten years down the road.

- Race is real, and there's virtually no such thing as "white privilege." Most of said "white privilege" is a really a result of the fact that whites are relatively intelligent and relatively law-abiding as a group; and this is primarily due to genetic factors, so the decades of social intervention on behalf of blacks and Hispanics haven't worked for a reason. Not because whitey is evil. There are thousands of pieces of evidence for the biological existence of race, and I'd suggest looking into it.

- Sex differences are real. Women really DON'T belong in combat - it's downright silly to pretend they aren't literally the weaker sex. MOST women are meant to be mothers and to nurture their social communities. They are not evolutionarily designed to build cities and go to war like men.

- Heterosexuals are not necessarily superior people, but heterosexuality is CLEARLY superior. Stop pretending homosexuality is anything but an unfortunate defect. Ditto transgenderism. Don't apologize for being cishet. (t. bisexual FtM)

Start investigating there. Don't live in an echo chamber. You will die there in ignorance.

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>>7860546
>Questions as an Ally
>Ally
get out