Why are hsts mtf often shorter

>>7850666
Because they are more TruTrans than AGP

>>7850666
Are hsts ftm often a little taller?

I feel like most AAP ftms are 5'1 kek, I'm 5'8 reporting in

>>7850666
only two studies have been done comparing the relative heights of hsts and agp women. the first, by blanchard's team in canada, found hsts women were slightly shorter than average male height -- they averaged 5'8" compared to the canadian male average (shared by the agps) of 5'9", and specifically had a skewed height distribution so a disproportionate number were even shorter.
the other study, done by the dutch team, did not find a difference.
the blanchard study's hypothesis as to why hstses were shorter was that they hit puberty earlier, as people who hit puberty early have shorter adult heights.
both studies were entirely composed of postpubertal transitioners. trans women who start hrt while still growing will have growth retardation compared to the general male population and are much more likely to be hsts than the general mtf population.
>>7850711
the dutch study in question also studied trans men and did not find a height difference for them either. anecdotally, i have not noticed a height difference between hsts and aap guys -- i'm hsts, 5'5", but was 5'3" pre-t, and my aap cohort are generally similar to me in height. i also know a couple gnc cis lesbians in the mix, and both of them are very short (5'1" and 5'3").

Daily reminder that > 5'8 mtfs can never be TruTrans HSTS

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>>7850711
>5'4.5" ftm
>slightly more agp than aap

Are the memes real?

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>>7850666
>>7850711
>>7851244
>>7851255

>these digits

>>7851244
>hsts
What the fuck is this nonsense. Its like in the last two weeks HSTS became a thing what does it even mean?

>>7851328
"homosexual transsexual"
basically what angry agp men call straight early transitioners (true trans) out of jealousy

>>7851328
https://sillyolme.wordpress.com/faq-on-the-science/
essentially, a*p transsexualism occurs on the same etiological spectrum as transvestism, and hsts transsexualism occurs on the same etiological spectrum as homosexuality

>>7851368
>essentially, a*p transsexualism occurs on the same etiological spectrum as transvestism
that's because they're the same thing

>>7851379
only from the same perspective that hsts and homosexuality are the same thing
transvestism and a*p transsexualism are alternate morphs of each other, just as homosexuality and hsts transsexualism are. transsexualism appears to be the default morph of hsts-spectrum (which is why desistence rates in potentially hsts children have dropped from very high to almost nil -- western society is switching from egalitarian to transgender homosexuality in the same way most of the world has always been), while there's no evidence to suggest what the default morph of a*p is either way but it's generally assumed to be transvestism

>>7851386
where are you getting all this...

>>7850666
These abbreviations are like learning a fucking coding language. What the fuck is hsts?

>>7851368
You mean hons

This means any classic AGP aren't trans, just creepy hons.

>>7851453
we live in the information age
with a way to get around paywalls, the ability to understand and interpret studies, and a few blogs by other intelligent, motivated people to point you in the direction of interesting findings, you can learn anything

>>7851473
I meant, list some specific blogs and sites d:

>>7851473
where ur source u agp fuck

>>7851467
hi rapevictim-chan
someday you're going to have to accept your beliefs aren't backed up by the science
also someday you'll have to accept 'femboy with bdd' = trans woman, but you seem at least a little aware of that

>>7850711
5'8" FtM also. But I'm a homo, so I guess I've just had a creepy fetish for gay men since I was a toddler and am not trutrans.

>>7850666
Starving self idk, I wish I were taller actually
>>7851386
>>7851479
You said they're transvestites, as in perverted middle aged manly men, so you already agreed.

And also you said that trans is supposed to be the true form of homosexuality. Doesn't that make everyone trans then?

>>7851255
>posts epin meme dragon girl
>slightly more agp than aap
>slightly

okay

>>7851479
>Femboy with bdd' = trans woman
Also I don't know how or where you read anything I said about this

>>7851503
>And also you said that trans is supposed to be the true form of homosexuality. Doesn't that make everyone trans then?
i think you greatly overestimate the size of the lgb population
at any rate, the real meaning of that statement is 'gay and trans are not discrete categories and someone's identity depends more on the culture they're in than Innate Feelings'
>>7851520
you're one of the most obvious anons, you have a very distinct typing style and harp on a couple different subjects, it's easy to identify you

>>7851360
So by this you mean HSTS are transbians who get SRS?

>>7851535
>obvious
On completely different threads. Unless you were looking in niche stuff you'd never see it

>>7851537
no, idk where you got that from

>>7851467
>>7851535
isn't rapevictimchan also the one who tries to call out "pedophile anon" and likes to call people straight dogshit, or am i mixing them up with someone else?

>>7851640
similar typing style, but i've been working under the assumption they're different anons
also i think there are multiple 'sage and report the pedo' posters
>>7851554
there are only so many people on this board and only so many active threads
i look at most trans-related threads, and you pop up in a lot of them, especially the ones that talk about femboys or the typology
you're somewhere around skull-chan tier of distinctiveness

>>7850666
HSTS MtF naturally produce lower amounts of testosterone in their gonads. Transbian AGPs have similar levels of testosterone to cis men prior to the intervention of HRT medication.

>>7851640
>straight dogshit
I haven't
>>7851652

>femboys
Those aren't even trans threads so why would you have bothered to look?

>>7851682
Low testosterone makes you taller, not shorter, bro. Look up eunuchs and XXY people.

>>7851715
>non-manlet FTMs BTFO

>>7851715
Then why are cis women, who actually do produce very, very low amounts of testosterone in their bodies, on average shorter than the average cis male? It's the estrogen that prevents people from growing taller in puberty, not low testosterone levels.

>>7851769
There's a lot more to height than estrogen and testosterone. I know you're all memeing but a Dutch girl is going to be much taller than a Southeast Asian girl and not because Dutch girls are high test

>>7851769
I forgot to mention that the word eunuchs originally meant a cis male who has been surgically castrated, but is still a biological man. Eunuchs are not some exotic hermaphrodite creatures, my dude.

>>7851769
High testosterone levels means higher estrogen levels. The higher estrogen levels make growth plates fuse quicker, thus making you shorter.

>>7851769
Height is like 50% genes

>>7851706
>Those aren't even trans threads so why would you have bothered to look?
'femboys' as interpreted by /tttt/ are much more like trans women than gay men, and most femboy threads outside the general are at least trying to bait trannies, so i read them
>>7851769
low t = low sex hormone levels
high t = high sex hormone levels
height is also partially controlled by the allosomes (both x and y -- 47,xxy and 47,xxx men and women are taller than other cis men and women respectively -- but especially y, the average height in 47,xyy is around 6'3")
fun fact: xyy is probably connected to transsexualism

>>7851328
Basically the gay men transies, not the hetero fetishists

>>7851841
Yea but wouldnt you know if you were intersex

Like youd be sterile, hyper emotional, have low T and have precursor to tits pre-hrt? Or is that just a myth

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>>7850711
>mtf
>kinda jealous of FtMs because they are trans but no one hates them for liking girls

>>7851922
intersex condition presentation varies wildly from 'nothing' to 'straight up ambigious genitals'
if you're talking about klinefelter's/xxy, yeah, it presents pretty much like that, though i haven't heard much about hyperemotionality (the cognitive/behavioural profile of klinefelter's is more reduced iq, dyslexia and adhd type shit)
xyy is "you're tall and that's about it", though it's connected to greater psychological vulnerability than the general population and has a stigma of criminality attached due it due to 1970s bad science, and technically shouldn't be considered an intersex condition

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>>7851368
>read through this entire page
>am now completely sold on the concept
>but also confirmed aap

>>7851926
No, we get shit for liking boys.

Same shit, different day.

>>7851953
Why would you want to be with a guy? That's gross senpai.

>>7851926
you know cis lesbians and cishet men exist, right?

>>7851965
Lesbians get shit on for liking women too. And cis men are basically subhuman so I don't envy them at all.

>>7851473
Intelligent people wouldn't waste their time on blogs, and would instead do real research.

>>7851992
>people never form online communities where they can write giant posts on their obscure interests with a bibliography of a million studies at the bottom
it's like you've never met a rationalist

>>7851682
This is all nuts. I am a transbian, and I am 17 months into HRT and still taking 50 mg of spiro. My T levels are always sub 0.5 as well. (Last time specifically they are like 0.2) I even had my doctor remark that I have one of the best responses to HRT she has seen in the city, and I am on the single lowest effective dose.

You're making sweeping generalizations and talking out your ass mate. (I am also not AGP...)

>>7852210
huh, also nonagp transbian on 50mg with low T (my pre-hrt was 100ng/dl, mine now is 2)
wild

holy fug so many dubs

>>7851488
I'm a 5'9" homo ftm as well

>>7852257
Woah, that is spooky! I haven't met anyone else in this situation.

Do you sometimes suspect there is something weird with our biology and the blood tests aren't accurately capturing everything? (conspiracy level shit I know)

I just think that somehow tests are missing something and we might secretly still need more anti androgen to get a greater feminization effect or something?

My results have been great, but I always keep thinking of ways to push it farther. haha

>>7851841
You said GB and T are interchangeable or that one is just the true state of others, so splitting hairs makes no sense.

And being attached to looking feminine doesn't feminine doesn't equate to being trans, nor is taking steps to be that way nessecarily the same as transition.

And people there and what they want is entirely unlike mtfs so I don't see why you're joining in the others who call them trannies

>>7850666
>tfw 5'3''
>tfw started HRT at 22

rly makes u think

>>7853148
>>7851841
And besides, I don't even know for a fact if I'm trans. The only thing I know for certain is bdd.

>>7853148
rapevictim-chan, you're an interesting person but you're terrible at comprehending/synthesizing information and it makes me sad
the 'two types', so to speak, of feminine androphilic natal males and masculine gynephilic natal females are egalitarian vs transgender -- in cultures where egalitarian homosexuality is more common the majority are what we'd call cis gays, while in cultures where transgendr homosexuality is more common the majority are what we'd call straight trannies, but in each culture there will be people who are strongly biased enough towards being either gay or trans that they will do it regardless of what their culture is set up for
the majority of self-identified femboys (by the /tttt/ definition of femboys) are people who, despite living in egalitarian homosexual contexts, are biased towards transsexualism due to their dysphoria ('bdd' in your terminology) and desire to medically transition
there's a bit of a spectrum and some complexity involved, but that's the general rule of thumb
i've observed enough femboys to be confident in this
>>7853290
what you describe as bdd is what is described in a medical context as gender dysphoria, bdd is a very different condition with a very different treatment

>>7856091
>the 'two types', so to speak, of feminine androphilic natal males and masculine gynephilic natal females are egalitarian vs transgender -- in cultures where egalitarian homosexuality is more common the majority are what we'd call cis gays
Firstly this makes no sense whatsoever given that the two groups have entirely different biometrics like 2d:4d they aren't the same. Even culture doesn't seem to matter for much given how you said many East Asian countries like Japan have high rates of AGP

>>7850666
Valentijn de Hingh: 6'2
Andreja Pejic: 6'2
Jenna Talackova: 6'0
Nicole Maines: 6'0
Carmen Carrera: 5'11
Laverne Cox: 5'11
Katie Rain Hill: 5'10

>hsts mtf often shorter

>>7860417
Pejic and many of the others are Bi and that means AGP

>>7860417
Why is Maines AGP height?

>>7860471
>>7860493
It's almost like AGP is a pointless theory that's laughed at by pretty much the entire scientific community and no one outside /lgbt/ take it seriously.

>>7860811
Or maybe the taller people are AGP or other non-HSTS who transitioned early.

>>7860493
>Why is Maines AGP height?
Why do you think? Her transition is literally based in sissification shit, albeit self imposed.

>>7860889
>Her transition is literally based in sissification shit, albeit self imposed.
What do you mean?

>>7860973
look up any childhood transitioning picture of her.

>>7858157
>Firstly this makes no sense whatsoever given that the two groups have entirely different biometrics like 2d:4d they aren't the same
biometrics cannot distinguish between gay cis people and straight trans people and if you had researched the topic you would know that
>Even culture doesn't seem to matter for much given how you said many East Asian countries like Japan have high rates of AGP
no, japan is the *only* east asian country with high agp, and it's an outlier because it has high personal individualism (not to be confused with work individualism) compared to other east asian countries
culture is the most important factor
>>7860417
nicole being 6'0" was one of cara's 'attempts at discrediting her'
but yeah, even the most liberal interpretations show that hsts women are much closer to male than female height on average

>>7861021
articulate your point you meme spouting faggot.

>>7861038
can you post proof she isn't 6'0?

>>7861038
They can, Cis gays like most men don't have absurdly high 2d:4d.

There is no correlation in the gay studies or a weak correlation to lower levels.

There is a definite correlation between high 2d4d and mtfs

>>7850666
The fuck is HSTS?

>>7861021
Basically this >>7861039 but more politely phrased.

>>7861076
a made up acronym that will disappear in month

>>7861076
A way too gay person.

>>7861076
Twink hons. Classic AGP is monster hon

>>7861085
her parents initiated her transition based on the fact that she was interested in "girly" things, and later on purposely brainwashed a heterosexual dynamic between her and her twin brother into her and him as to force her to become flamboyantly feminine and to act in the "correct" way as a woman.

>>7861076
https://sillyolme.wordpress.com/faq-on-the-science/
this is the only non-meme answer you're going to get so suck it up and don't bitch about tldr

>>7861125
it's on a random blog but says "faq on the science" sounds legit

>>7861131
read it
note the massive amount of studies referenced
read those studies, here's a way to get around paywalls: http://gen.lib.rus.ec/scimag/index.php
if you're being spoonfed information the least you can do is not spit it out and throw a tantrum

>>7861140
I'm not reading your blog just to understand your made up acronym, fag.

>>7861140
Most of those are selfpublished by ASB and that means very poor quality if you're the editor and on the board of what's reviewing your own paper.

Also, the author is a crazy, obvioulsy AGP hon who calls himself a "transkid" and shamelessly wades into stuff he doesn't belong in.

It's stephonkee level creepy.

>>7861124
>her parents initiated her transition based on the fact that she was interested in "girly" things,
So she's a transwoman who isn't HSTS or AGP?

>and later on purposely brainwashed a heterosexual dynamic between her and her twin brother into her and him
Why did they want that dynamic and her being so feminine?

>>7861145
it's not my blog
the acronym was 'made up' before you were born
here's your goddamn spoonfed information: hsts, which stands for 'homosexual transsexual' (by natal sex) but is sometimes informally understood to stand for 'heterosexual transsexual' (by transitioned sex), is the term for trans people who fit the more 'classic' trans story -- they were gender-dysphoric early in life and are exclusively attracted to the same natal/opposite transitioned sex
their natural behaviour is such that they fit into society easier as their transitioned than natal sex
they almost universally transition under age 30 and increasingly much younger than that
/tttt/, being insane, has a love-hate relationship with the very idea they exist

>>7861157
I mean that same journal said that bixexuality didn't exist when many controlled studies by others found that physical arousal to both sexes might be one of the most common orientations

>>7861167
hs, which could also stand for hetero sexual, wow great acronym, we should definitely keep using it. doesn't cause any confusion whatsoever.

>>7861161
He's a homosexual male who basically underwent "correctional" therapy by his parents under the guise of transitioning.

>>7861167
>but is sometimes informally understood to stand for 'heterosexual transsexual' (by transitioned sex)
I've never once seen that usage besides the time I posted it on /lgbt/ the other day.

>>7861157
>the author is a crazy, obvioulsy AGP hon
How do you know she's AGP?

>>7861207
Only AGP are shameless. His body was massive and masculine, he looked like a big man in makeup.

Anyone who wasn't agp wouldn't be able to survive long with that kind of self disgust and shame.

The fact he wades in and usurps kids by calling himself one just clinches it.

>>7861201
HS is a terrible acronym to refer to homosexuality or in relation to sexual orientation because it could easily stand for heterosexuality, the person reading the acronym would have no other choice but to look it up. it's fucking shit and whoever came up with HSTS should be flogged.

>>7861217
so HSTS are the other half of trannies that kill themselves out of shame?

>>7861199
HSTS then except it was his parents personally instead of social pressure that initiated the transition.

>>7861248
basically
https://gendertrender.wordpress.com/2011/12/13/led-by-the-parents-who-simply-didnt-know-or-want-to-know-better/

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>>7861125
>hon has a blog about honscience
Wow, it's a salty old man trying to tell young trans women it's wrong to love women or act in a way that isn't the male ideal of a woman. No way that could be inspired by underlying misogyny or lesbophobia.

>>7850666
tiny bodies and tiny brains

>>7861255
Remind me never to get SRS.