Anyone not really feel sympathy for the early transitioners affected

>>7825320
*anyone else

no, i think its pathetic that proponents ignore the argument of overreach but i ideally think students should be protected. in real life theyd change in a stall. the people here that post stupid age stratified nonsense like to ignore that most trans dont pass and discrimination exists.

File: C__Data_Users_DefApps_AppData_INTERNETEXPLORER_Temp_Saved Images_imagesBX4EE7M3.jpg (4KB, 300x168px) Image search: [Google]

4KB, 300x168px

>>7825343
Trans that don't pass aren't trutrans.
They get no rights

>>7825343
>in real life theyd change in a stall.
Unisex bathrooms, stalls for everyone. Problem solved.

>>7825366
This recent ruling doesn't anything to do with whether or not you pass. It's for school restrooms, the school would know if a kid is transgender either way.

>>7825366
trutrans is a meme shitposter

>>7825396
uniex wont happen. too late for no laws so gender conf. by therapist etc for appropriate bathroom. the issue was federal overreach.

>>7825366
Even if you pass everyone's gonna know eventually you're a tranny.

>>7825320
How do they deserve this cruel punishment? They're pure.

>>7825491
Federal overreach is always a problem, but the only way unisex is guaranteed not to happen is if people give up on it.

>>7825343
>ignore that most trans dont pass
That's why we need discrimination and laws banning ID change and bathroom use like they're in ally passing in half the countries.

Those laws will ensure that any trans who socially transitions passes or gets arrested

They will rescue us From complacency degeneration and people celebrating and capering nonpassing

File: C__Data_Users_DefApps_AppData_INTERNETEXPLORER_Temp_Saved Images_imagesQNG0NC8M.jpg (4KB, 299x169px) Image search: [Google]

4KB, 299x169px

>>7825508
T.blaire white
And that is not true actually. Individuals may know but the public sphere in general wont

>>7825553
That's pretty fucked, especially considering most go through and androgynous phase if they're ever going to pass. I agree in theory, but the topic just needs more publicity. Some people actually think that all trans people are mtf hons.

>>7825569
I'm talking about people in high school, the moment anyone finds out you're a tranny everyone else will know in less than 3 days.

>>7825583
High school is 4 years of your life, and odds are you grew up with everyone you're in high school with. Of course they know you're trans.

When you get to college, you won't see the people you're not in classes or clubs with, so it's easier to hide if you pass.

File: 1457978804200.jpg (48KB, 188x289px) Image search: [Google]

48KB, 188x289px

>>7825320
Nah. Any trans that hate and alienate other trans are scum. Doesn't matter if they're younger or older.

Nonbinary autism doesn't count.

>>7825601
>tranny complains about trannies throwing other trannies under the bus and then proceeds to throw another group of people under the bus

ironic

>>7825601
>not hating trannies when 99% of them are gross non-passers

I see you tolerate disgusting things in your life, how very.

>>7825626
non-passing =\= ugly hons
You can not pass 100% and still be cute.

>>7825620
Sorry, but female-presenting cis girls with dyed haired in western countries saying they're "faegender" is completely unrelated to what binary trans people experience.

>>7825320
no, you are a horrible person. OP

>>7825320
No you selfish harpy, it's our duty to protect them so they don't have to suffer like us.

The federal shouldn't be involved in petty shit like that. Trump didn't make it so schools had to prevent trannies from going in their preferred bathrooms just that they don't need to allow it.

File: large.jpg (41KB, 500x667px) Image search: [Google]

41KB, 500x667px

>>7828631
If you could ban early transitioners from using the bathroom would you? Keep in mind we're not banning them from transitioning in this scenario.

>>7828638
No, I would want early trans to be allowed to use the bathroom they identify with.

>>7825396
This

I can't pee with my dick hanging out in public. I can barely do it in a stall (especially when they have massive gaps for watching people take shits. wtf)

>>7826047
They were born trans, they've been suffering since birth. Also, protect them how? By posting on 4chan shooting down this idiotic thread the op started? YOU GO GIRL

File: 1406742644378.jpg (294KB, 500x707px) Image search: [Google]

294KB, 500x707px

>>7828656
what if they got to use a special bathroom while the cis kids made fun of them for it?

>>7828722
That's ridiculous. Why would anyone want to use a bathroom that's specifically made for people with the same illness as them? And why would anyone want to build a 3rd bathroom in their building for >1% of the population?

>>7825320
I'm with you. Fuck 'em. I suffered; they should too.

>>7828770
Why would anyone want to share their bathrooms with trannies? Besides, they can just use the teacher's bathroom.

>>7829049
Ditto. Fuck 'em for being lucky enough to transition at a young age, too.

>>7828770
Are you also against ramps for handicapped people?

>>7825396
Why the fuck would you segregate a mirror and sinks to wash hands with? Just give a top to bottom stall door with no bullshit gaps.

>>7829049
If you were really trans, why didn't you take a rubber band to your balls or twist them really far and hard so they have to be amputated?

File: 99.jpg (19KB, 210x240px)

19KB, 210x240px

Why are late transitioners so spiteful?

>>7829239
They hate themselves for being agp freaks.

>>7829246
well if you're being mean as well...

>>7829252
Agps don't deserve respect, they have done nothing but slow down trans acceptance for decades.

File: C__Data_Users_DefApps_AppData_INTERNETEXPLORER_Temp_Saved Images_images(2).jpg (5KB, 300x168px) Image search: [Google]

5KB, 300x168px

>>7829261
>agp
>known about in mainstream
Commit Sudoku immediately

>>7829280
Why are you always defending agps?

>>7829261
well I think there's a difference between non early transitioners and 30+ hons

>>7829284
It's not really defending them.
The whole revival of Blanchard's dichotomy thing isn't even standard trans culture, it's literally a 4chan meme. The average normie wouldn't have a clue.

>>7829292
We should have a campaign to educate the ignorant cishet public about this very important distinction.

>>7829239
I started hrt at 20 and am a nasty autistic agp freak and I think early transitioners should get a full ride, be cherished and protected. Even thoigh im poisonously jealous. i want them to have what i couldnt because i have a shred of maternal instincts in my cold manly heart

>>7829311
I don't think 20 is too late, but thanks for nice ^^

>>7829291
There isn't, if you transitioned after 13, there's a 90% chance you don't pass.

>>7829334
okay so this is a meme right?

>>7829106
not that anon, but sharing the bathroom with trannies is better than having to build an entirely separate bathroom just for a minuscule fraction of the population. You might disagree but I'd just call you unreasonable. That is a very large cost honestly, and a nightmare logistically if you try to enforce that a new bathroom be built to accommodate.

>>7829211
unrelated, because creating a new bathroom for trans people is not borne out of necessity like constructing a handicap ramp for paraplegics is so that they can access places. It's really the polar opposite if anything, as ramps help handicapped people get in, and you want to erect entirely different bathrooms just to keep people out.

>>7829340
No, just look at our resident tripfags.

>>7829334
>anybody that didn't start at 14 is the same
This needs to stop. Regardless of passability, somebody that starts at 20 and somebody that starts at 40 are not even comparable. No matter how much you try to play on people's insecurities, it will never be true.

>>7829791

tell us at what age you started, honey.

>>7829292
the blanchardian revival is mostly in rationalist communities, not 4chan
4chan's interpretation of the typology is generally very, very different from any reasonable one

>>7829800
Links to said rationalists?

>>7829799
20, and like most people that start in their 20s, I look like an especially girly twink. Not truehon tier.

File: mtsw.png (26KB, 751x275px) Image search: [Google]

26KB, 751x275px

>>7829887
http://unremediatedgender.space/
note also the transgender intellectual turing test on the blog of noted rationalist ozy frantz:
https://thingofthings.wordpress.com/2017/02/15/transgender-intellectual-turing-test/
https://thingofthings.wordpress.com/2017/02/24/itt-reminder/
ozy has pretty substantial motivation to reject blanchardianism because they're a genderspecial whose claims can only be valid from certain identitarian vantage points, but they nonetheless responded to the uptick of blanchardianism in their community by accepting it (note also that, as they discuss, there are lessening-but-substantial social costs to identifying yourself as a blanchardian and so this influences how publicly anyone is going to talk about it)

>>7829908
>just two bloggers
I was hoping for more...

I just had a thought, what motivation do blanchardians have to not reject blanchardianism?

>>7829947
it's less 'motives to stop rejecting it' and more 'motives to embrace it'. after reading more about blanchard's research than the strawmen i'd been offered by the trans community for the 4-5 years before, i realized i had strong motives to embrace it -- realizing that i wasn't weird or trying too hard to fit in with cis men or anything for being so completely different from other trans men, they just had a different etiology and thus behaved and lived in completely different ways, and also explained to me why i sometimes struggled to distinguish between trendscum and actual trans guys. in addition, realizing transsexualism was more than one condition explained why it presented in so many different ways and yet some of those ways separated into distinct clusters -- the idea we're all our own little points on the same snowflake stopped making sense to me when i realized other people were clearly different flakes.

>>7829960
Are there any motives for agps to embrace it? They seem to be the ones who deny it, for various reasons like not wanting to be fetishists, wanting to be really women and not experiencing agp themselves or thinking all women do.

This poster >>7826212 thinks there's more than two conditions.

>>7829973
the first blog i linked you is an agp
agp women generally have substantial incentive to deny it, but non-transitioned agps seem more open to the idea, probably because for the former category it reads as 'this is saying i'm not really a woman' and for the latter it's 'does this mean that in some way i'm like a woman?'
the poster you linked is just outlining the hsts stereotype and a couple variants of the agp stereotype, not proposing any actual changes
also not all hstses are extroverted, it's just much easier for extroverted hstses to transition (especially historically)
the fact nobody cares about trans men means all the focus is on hsts women, who in general are pretty extroverted because flamers usually are, but in my experience hsts men and agps aren't that dissimilar in terms of how they relate to society

>>7829991
>'does this mean that in some way i'm like a woman?'
Kinda adorable in a tragic way!

I thought those were just agp variants. They are so vague and light on detail.

What do introverted hstses do? I guess extroverted agps are the ones who seem like hstses and introverted agps are the late transitioners.

What do you mean about relating to society?

>>7829908
I'm cis male and I don't get this? Does agp mean that you for example, are a male who wishes to have a female body, but isn't particularly a MtF transsexual? Does transitioning or not Aldo have any play on if you are agp?

>>7830128
autogynephilia is a sexual orientation in which someone who is attracted to women is in addition attracted to the image of themselves *as* a woman
it is the most common cause of mtf transsexualism, but not all agps are trans women (though an increasing number are because it is easier to be a trans woman than it once was, and at younger ages)

>>7829311
Could you describe what the jealousy is like? Is there any way to rectify it?

t. Cis and curious

>>7831442
Not her but I guess AGP jealously is like seeing a fit guy you wish you looks like and simultaneously seeing a fit girl you wish was your girlfriend.

>>7828670
>I can't pee with my dick hanging out in public. I can barely do it in a stall
be grateful, some girl's restrooms don't even have stalls >>7828321

>>7829991
>the former category it reads as 'this is saying i'm not really a woman'

Isn't that true tho? And how would a non-transitioned AGP come to the conclusion that having AGP makes him more like a woman? It's an inherently male sexual orientation. If anything, shouldn't it convince them to stay as men because they aren't really women in any capacity at all?

>>7828631
The Federal government should be involved in protecting human rights. This isn't the sort of thing that's okay or not depending on whether the locals support it.

>>7829211
Handicapped people CANNOT use stairs. Whereas a trans girl is perfectly capable of using the girl's bathroom just like any other girl.

>>7837003
>Isn't that true tho?
Yes. Equally, HSTS aren't really women either. The rational approach for both is that it's irrelevant, but it does mean the meme that transition is the necessary treatment for either type is wrong.

>>7837091
How is it irrelevant? It's very much relevant when it comes to social, legal and medical proceedings. If all transition is is just an exercise in delusion, then shouldn't it be scrapped in favor of something better, like cognitive behavioural therapy?

>>7837177
>It's very much relevant when it comes to social, legal and medical proceedings.
How does it have any relevance at all for social, legal or medical matters?

It doesn't make being trans a delusion. It just means we are more informed about it.

Why would the question of transition vs cognitive behavioral therapy hinge on this instead of what actually improves lives?

>>7837191
>How does it have any relevance at all for social, legal or medical matters?

Things like demanding pronouns from other people to humor the delusion of being the opposite gender, using bathrooms of the opposite gender, dating and sexual encounters, demanding to have your official documents changed to say you're the opposite sex when that's a lie. The fact that you're not really the opposite gender has a ton of bearing on your daily life and you shouldn't deny it. There's a laundry list of things and I haven't even gone into the medical part.

>It doesn't make being trans a delusion. It just means we are more informed about it.

It is a delusion tho. There is no such thing as gender identity. Someone who pretends to be the opposite gender and claims to be "living as a woman" isn't being honest with themselves.

>Why would the question of transition vs cognitive behavioral therapy hinge on this instead of what actually improves lives?

Transition doesn't improve lives. Whatever positive effect it has is temporary and the dysphoria comes back even worse when reality sets back in. The same thing happens to AGP men who have "transitioned" and are stuck in denial complexes about being a man with a fetish.

Trans "men" and "women" are that in name only. There's nothing tangible that makes them men or women so calling them that is essentially just telling them a comforting lie. Sure, some are more deluded or able to get over the fact that their "transition" is essentially just a lifelong pantomiming of the opposite gender but that doesn't mean that transition is a valid treatment. The term itself is a lie, no one ever really transitions to the opposite gender.

>>7837091
Transition never solves anything, really?

For all of my childhood I had a wicked speech impediment, cluttering/stuttering and talking so fast that no one could understand me. Weird-sounding voice due to inability to properly shape the mouth and throat. They bought me to multiple speech therapists, which didn't help at all.

I started transition and all of sudden my self-awareness skyrockets, I actually care about my appearance and how my voice sounds, and people I haven't seen in a long time are shocked at how much clearer and slower I talk. All because I transitioned it led to elimination of a problem that speech therapists shrugged their shoulders at and couldn't fix.

Not only that, my social skills have vastly improved (was diagnosed with Asperger's before and now I'm not so scared of people), the fact that I care about my appearance now means I actually take showers every other day instead of once a week like I used to, and brush my teeth every day too.

None of the therapists I had as a teenager could fix any of this, even though they didn't know I'm trans. Transitioning seems to have magically treated it all.

>>7837335
>Things like demanding pronouns from other people to humor the delusion of being the opposite gender,
That's a gender essentialist view of language. If someone fits one gender role, it makes sense for them to be able to expect the pronouns for that role.

>using bathrooms of the opposite gender, dating and sexual encounters, demanding to have your official documents changed to say you're the opposite sex when that's a lie. The fact that you're not really the opposite gender has a ton of bearing on your daily life and you shouldn't deny it.
All those things are social matters assigned by society to the gender roles. They aren't part of being biologically male or female.

Social roles being attached to sex is a problem, not something to reinforce. GNC people shouldn't be shoehorned into romance, legal matters, social norms, etc according to their assigned sex when the role expected of the other assigned sex suits them better.

>Transition doesn't improve lives. Whatever positive effect it has is temporary and the dysphoria comes back even worse when reality sets back in.
Source please?

>Trans "men" and "women" are that in name only.
"Man" and "woman" are just names in the first place.

>their "transition" is essentially just a lifelong pantomiming of the opposite gender
>The term itself is a lie, no one ever really transitions to the opposite gender.
There is no such thing as "gender." They are adopting the social role that suits them, despite a gendered society that tries to force them into gender norms they can't handle.

>>7837379
I've never heard of transition helping a speech impediment before. Was it just a result of caring more about yourself and your voice?

How did it help your social skills and fear of people?

I'm happy it's helped your life.

>Transition never solves anything, really?
I didn't say that.

>>7837566
>I've never heard of transition helping a speech impediment before. Was it just a result of caring more about yourself and your voice?

Yes, transition generally brings a vast increase in self-awareness, especially in HSTS type... if you're a boy and you subconsciously hate being one, you won't care about your appearance at all, won't care about impressing women, therefore will take 1 shower a week, won't work out, let your voice continue to be nerd/geek-tier instead of working on it with a microphone and Audacity

>>7825320
Eh, I don't know. On one hand I am bitter as fuck, on the other hand it's a dick move being bitter as fuck. But I didn't get as screwed by waiting till I was 21 before going on hormones, I pass fine and never worry about being misgendered. Still, there is always that thought that it could have been better.

>>7837543
>That's a gender essentialist view of language. If someone fits one gender role, it makes sense for them to be able to expect the pronouns for that role.

The overwhelming majority of trannies do not fit into their desired gender role. This is especially true with A*Ps.

>All those things are social matters assigned by society to the gender roles. They aren't part of being biologically male or female.

There's a lot more than that. The fact that trans "men" are restricted to dating lesbians, bisexuals or straight men has nothing to do with them being biologically female? What about the fact that doctors need to treat them with consideration of their biological sex? Or the fact that trans women being biologically male puts them a physical advantage in sports and fights? Is it okay to put trans women in a female prison then? It's all social gender roles, right?

>Source please?

Just look on here and how many trannies are severely depressed or suicidal because they can't pass or actually be their desired sex. Look at all the blogs and suicide notes of transsexuals who are unhappy with their "transition" and how little it actually changes. Go to any support group and see how happy trannies actually are after transition.

>"Man" and "woman" are just names in the first place.

No they're not. They literally mean either adult human male or female. Trans women are men and trans men are women. Denying that they are and calling them the opposite is denying immutable biology and essentially lying to them and everyone else.

>There is no such thing as "gender." They are adopting the social role that suits them, despite a gendered society that tries to force them into gender norms they can't handle.

So they're pretending to be the opposite sex because they don't like the social role of the one they actually are, gotcha.

>>7837765
>The overwhelming majority of trannies do not fit into their desired gender role.
Considering most don't fit into their assigned gender role either, this just shows how much gender roles are a problem for people.

>There's a lot more than that.
>It's all social gender roles, right?
Let me ask you something. Imagine a society with zero gender roles. Sex is absolutely insignificant socially, babies aren't assigned sex at birth, pronouns are all gender neutral, official documents, the law and every organization are entirely gender-blind, nothing is gender-segregated and bathrooms, events and groups are all unisex. Basically the perfect feminist society. Of course, sex comes up occasionally, people date who they are attracted to without calling themselves something-sexual, doctors ask their patients for their sex before prescribing doses, etc.

In that society, how would your attitude change to people who transition and what wouldn't change?

>Just look on here and how many trannies are severely depressed
>blogs and suicide notes of transsexuals who are unhappy with their "transition"
>Go to any support group
Those are all anecdotal and unscientifically selected, but I get how you'd conclude that transition isn't helpful for some people.

>So they're pretending to be the opposite sex because they don't like the social role of the one they actually are, gotcha.
Even if they were, what's the problem with fighting the social roles that are forced on them in that way? What should people made miserable by their randomly assigned role do?

>>7837888
>Let me ask you something. Imagine a society with zero gender roles. Sex is absolutely insignificant socially, babies aren't assigned sex at birth, pronouns are all gender neutral, official documents, the law and every organization are entirely gender-blind, nothing is gender-segregated and bathrooms, events and groups are all unisex. Basically the perfect feminist society. Of course, sex comes up occasionally, people date who they are attracted to without calling themselves something-sexual, doctors ask their patients for their sex before prescribing doses, etc.
>In that society, how would your attitude change to people who transition and what wouldn't change?

In that case, there would be no need to transition and transsexuals wouldn't exist. There's nothing innate about cross sex identity. It's all the result of either fetishization or being unable to conform to gender roles.

>Even if they were, what's the problem with fighting the social roles that are forced on them in that way? What should people made miserable by their randomly assigned role do?

Fight against that society's expectation of that role and normalize nonconformity. Pretending to be the opposite gender and forcing yourself into another rigid role won't solve anything. Even after transition, transsexuals are still seen as their biological sex and they're still grouped into their birth role. They'll never truly escape it.

>>7837971
>In that case, there would be no need to transition and transsexuals wouldn't exist. There's nothing innate about cross sex identity.
If that's your view, why are you unhappy about treating trans people as their transitioned gender now?

>Fight against that society's expectation of that role and normalize nonconformity. Pretending to be the opposite gender and forcing yourself into another rigid role won't solve anything.
But transition is normalizing nonconformity. You are the one insisting on defending societal gender expectations like gendered restrooms, laws, accommodation, etc from people who seek to fight their assigned role.

>>7838346
>If that's your view, why are you unhappy about treating trans people as their transitioned gender now?

Because it's an affront to rationality and a blatant lie. Why should we allow AGP men into women's shelters and women's spaces when they have a male fetishist's view of womanhood and women's bodies? Why should I have to call a man in a dress "she" and why should the state have to accommodate their delusion? Why should we allow MtTs into women's sports and prisons when they have a physical advantage and heightened aggression?

>But transition is normalizing nonconformity. You are the one insisting on defending societal gender expectations like gendered restrooms, laws, accommodation, etc from people who seek to fight their assigned role.

I don't see how claiming that women can have penises or calling AGP MtTs "lesbians" normalizes nonconformity.

>>7838705
>Why should we allow trans women into women's shelters and women's spaces when they have a male fetishist's view of womanhood and women's bodies?
Because your gendered expectations are wrong and punish nonconformity.

>Why should I have to call a trans woman in a dress "she" and why should the state have to accommodate their delusion?
Because society shouldn't gender people.

>Why should we allow MtFs into women's sports and prisons when they have a physical advantage and heightened aggression?
Because forcing people into rigid roles by assigned gender is wrong.

>>7825320
(I am a person who believes I am female in a biological male body....I have not transitioned and I do not live a trans lifestyle)

Ah, genderless bathrooms are nice but I think unnecessary .....the biggest problems are men's' bathrooms are simply too dirty all the time and when there are genderless bathrooms men ruin it for everyone in the bathroom

So I think that women should just continue to have a clean bathroom, realize that this question requires too many resources and trans people just become more creative about how they use the bathroom like mark out the explicitly already existing genderless bathrooms in your town and only use those (like they have at libraries)

....in my opinion when you have all genderless bathrooms the men end up ruining the bathroom for both the trans and the females.....if you leave it alone, females will still have their clean bathroom

As for the problem of trans facing sexual harassment or creeping men out in the bathroom, like I said, perhaps trans can just get more crafty with how they use the bathroom

If society will help me get a sex change and hormones, I can do without society reorganizing their bathrooms

have never really considered this subject deeply

There are more importantbthingsvto worry about and I think other groups in society (maybe like the CIA or foreign intelligence?) could use the trans issue to create unnecessary divisions in society

>>7838854
>the biggest problems are men's' bathrooms are simply too dirty all the time and when there are genderless bathrooms men ruin it for everyone in the bathroom
>in my opinion when you have all genderless bathrooms the men end up ruining the bathroom for both the trans and the females
Before making your sexist assumptions, how many female bathrooms have you seen?

>>7839120
plenty