Trans man becomes undisputed champion in wrestling competition

>>7803755
This is so stupid. If he can just change his sex to compete in the men's events, why won't all women do so to avoid the stigma and lower pay and fame of only being able to win against biologically second class opponents?

>>7803755
>vox
Literally liberal fox.

>>7803764
Many women do use drugs to compete at the highest level, they're just not redpilled on T yet.

>>7803755
I don't give a shit about wrestling.

>>7803755
if ftms can play in mens sports why can't mtfs play in womens?

>>7803764
yeah, why don't they just change their entire gender, put up with the extremely negative stigma trans people face and give themselves severe dysphoria just to try and break into an insanely competitive field where they'll still be at a disadvantage because of skeletal structure?

also, this kid is in high school. i'm pretty sure he's not just transitioning for the sake of competing in an unpaid wrestling competition.

>>7803782
MtFs usually can, but they have lower T than normal women so they are utterly non-competitive. Most top tier female athletes have fucked up hormone balances to start with.

>>7803782
There's an mtf pro MMA fighter. It was more controversial before she got assraped by a cis girl, but there are still a lot of people against it.

>>7803782
>>7803764
Unfortunately, he wasn't allowed to compete in the male league and his female opponents are now suing the league saying he cheated.

>>7803793
In fact the woman who beat her even said she shouldn't be able to fight women.

>>7803764
Because not everyone wants to live as the opposite sex?

>>7803771
Fox looks pretty unbiased compared to the news sources the alt-right is using these days.

>>7803806
And then that person got busted for using performance-enhancing drugs kek

>>7803811
That was over a year later. There's no evidence she was using PEDs at the time. Certainly nothing she was using compares to having testicles for 30+ years.

>>7803755
I want him to beat the shit out of me.

>>7803755
They could solve the whole problem by not having gender divided leagues.

>>7803823
I'm not downplaying her victory or anything, I'm just saying it undermines her position.

>>7803755

First, I did wrestling in HS and we had no separate womens league, so women wrestled men, and it wasn't *that* big a deal other than it sucked for mens ego to lose. Depending on the leage, women got a +10lb-20lb weight class advantage because of increased body fat percentage (tits etc -- also mens minimum for safety was 3% while womens was 6% iirc).

Anyway, as a man, obviously I don't have to worry as much about unfair advantage with gender identity, though there could easily be a case of a hormonally-male, female-genitalled, woman taking testosterone as part of gender reassignment even though she is already a man in every way except the genitals (this is entirely possible and documented), and this could be used to skirt the rules on illegal substance use for male athletes. But that would be a once-in-a-decade occurrence that would in any case require the person to be a decent athlete to begin with to make a real difference.

Anyway, if the leagues have to be separated, I'd rather wrestle someone of proper gender identity. I know HS trans-women -- if they're able to start transitioning by that age they look like women -- hot women. So I'd be in a mens league wrestling a hot chick when the agreement when I signed up was that it was a male-only league? No fucking thank you. That shit is awkward for both of us.

tldr; fuck Texas. Probably the fault of that shitfest of a school board that tried to vote Thomas Jefferson off the curriculum because he's an atheist -- if they don't take input from academic experts, I wouldn't be surprised that they don't take input from coaches or athletes.

>>7803968
>Depending on the leage, women got a +10lb-20lb weight class advantage because of increased body fat percentage (tits etc -- also mens minimum for safety was 3% while womens was 6% iirc).
Hardly fair. Men would never get an advantage like that in any sport if they are unusually thin or flabby.

>>7803796
"He" shouldn't have been allowed to compete due to "his" use of Testosterone. Trannies using any type of hormones should be suspended from competitive sports altogether. I don't understand what's so difficult about it.

Ok
>>7803755
Cool. Good for him.
On a related note: who gives a shit?
Guy does a thing.
Wow, am I supposed to drop my dildo and applaud? No.
Ill continue to masturbate myself into oblivion like I do every Wednesday night.

>>7804004
I do agree someone with a man's testosterone level shouldn't be competing as a female athlete.
But as long as their hormones are within normal ranges for the gender they are competing as, what's the issue?

>>7804087
>being an unironically 6'4" "woman"
>"what's the issue?"
>inb4 natal women are sometimes 6'4"
Trannies just shouldn't be allowed to compete at all. They forfeited their shot when they chose to transition.

>>7804097
Unless a 6' 4" cis woman would be disqualified too, I don't get your point.

>>7804097
how about they compete with the men -- and so do you and the rest of the cis girls.

then if you do ever actually win a medal you won't need to mentally add "for a girl" after every time you get congratulated.

>>7804004
Agree. Also, any male who hasn't been castrated shouldn't be allowed to compete in any sports, due to the unfair advantage they hold over eunuchs.

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>>7804110
>I don't get your point
It's because you're retarded, anon.

>larger frame
>larger hands
>larger lungs
>denser bones
>hips optimized for motion

>pic related it's a "woman"

WRESTLING IS FFAAKKEE

>>7804113
tbqh I think competitive sports is dumb as hell. But if women want their own leagues and their own "as a girl" medals, then they should be allowed to have them. Trannies can go start their own tranny leagues and win medals "as a tranny".

>>7804132
Reverse google search says that's a mtf professional bodybuilder that's competing in bodybuilding. And if you simply google female bodybuilders, you see that she's not really outstanding.

>>7804129
>purposefully being obtuse
>hurrdurr but males have natural testosterone
just kill yourself tbqh anon

>>7804143
If that's all it was, it would be fine. But it isn't. In the name of equality, we have women demanding equal time on television and equal pay, despite earning less money in revenue from viewers and advertisers and objectively being worse players (fewer goals scored, fewer sets played, etc).

Not only that, in several sports the female leagues are atcually subsidized by the male leagues, since the former run at a financial loss while the latter are actually profitable.

That is not just letting women run their own leagues and giving them their own girly medals. That is giving them all the privilege of successful athletes while ensuring them never actually have to face a challenge except from other equally bad people.

>>7804154
Well, that's the thing. The whole point of hormone therapy is to get normal hormone levels for your targeted gender.
Trans men competing as men don't have a hormone advantage over cis men and it makes no sense to ban them for taking testosterone.

>>7803755
In most sports, for a trans women to compete as a women their hormonal levels and shit have to actually match that of a women's

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>>7804149
>those hips
>those ribs
>those linebacker shoulders
>"she's not really outstanding"

Why do trannies try so hard to deny biology? It's honestly sadder than creationists

>pic related, a non body-building "woman"

>>7804163
I know hons can look that bad, but I doubt this is actually an MtF, that picture looks like it was taken to be purposefully creepy.

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>>7804163
She's not remarkable when I'm looking at pages of shit like this.

>>7804158
>demanding equal time on television and equal pay, despite earning less money in revenue from viewers and advertisers and objectively being worse players (fewer goals scored, fewer sets played, etc).
They're also not getting any of the shit they're asking for. Women leagues are pretty much shit in general. Trannies can go join the paralymics.

>giving them all the privilege of successful athletes
They're not getting all the privilege of successful athletes. Their leagues are shit, their equipment is shit and their coaches are shit. The whole industry is crap. This is why women don't become athletes.

>>7803991
>get an advantage

You seem to lack reading comprehension and a basic desire to understand that there is actual measurable reality.

Just let me give you the number again: the *minimum* body fat percentage that HS wrestlers were allowed to have in my state to compete was 3% for men and 6% for women. Body fat is not muscle -- it is dead weight that gives a disadvantage to weight class, hence the adjustment.

If you are unusually thin or flabby in HS and you can't seem to account for it or adjust for it then you lose. Not everyone can be a champion. That's why I was last place in every sport I did until college. I worked my ass off for 30th place -- the very last position to get a ribbon -- my senior year of running in HS. I set a goal and made it. That's what sports are all about.

And that's why
>>7804097
>>7804004
piss me off. HS sports are for everyone -- there must always be some kind of physical (and also academic) competitive team that any student can participate in as long as they show up. And this whole thing is the Texas Board's shitstorm -- don't try to foist blame on the students here -- though the Sports Federation should have stood up to the Board's bullshit or negotiated a compromise two years ago when this was obviously going to be a problem.

>>7804154
>>hurrdurr but males have natural testosterone
Am I being memed?

Trans men can't have higher T levels than the average cis male without also putting up with an insane amount of health complications. Plus they're usually physically smaller and therefore at a disadvantage anyway

>>7804195
>women got a +10lb-20lb weight class advantage

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>>7804171
Just like any other 65 year old woman. I can do this forever, anon. There is no point denying.

>>7804174
You can tell she's female from her wider hips. Notice how the male "woman" had extremely narrow hips? Those are pelvic bones built to do long distance running.

>>7804222
>Just like any other 65 year old woman.

I was saying that's a cis man dressing up, autist.

>>7804222
I don't know enough about professional bodybuilding, but do hips really give an advantage there?
They aren't running.

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>>7804195
>HS sports are for everyone
No they aren't. They're for athletic children who qualify. Which football league can Rochelle join by simply showing up?

>>7804247
She probably qualifies for Special Olympics, then.

>>7804158
>the female leagues are atcually subsidized by the male leagues

It's an exception for pro sports leagues, but U.S. Mens Soccer runs at a loss paid for by the profitable and more successful U.S. Womens Soccer, yet until the story became widely publicized and ridiculed last year the latter's players earned less money. U.S. Womens Gymnastics also brings in more than Mens.

On the NCAA level, while it is true that only Div I Football and Basketball are profitable, multiple NCAA studies have found that only the top 20 teams or so have actually made net profits for their respective universities. The margins are very very thin there -- the notion that they subsidize the rest of the athletics program is just not true -- their margins would not be enough to do so except at maybe the top 10 schools. Athletics and extracurriculars at almost every university are paid for entirely by tuition, endowment, and participation fees.

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>>7804235
The point wasn't professional body building, it was about the fact that biological males are physically different from biological females, particularly biological females who have not undergone HRT.

>>7804232
>that's a cis man dressing up
They're all men dressing up, dummy

>>7804195
>HS sports are for everyone
Shivanath and Shivram would like to try out for the tennis team

>>7804265
How the fuck does that happen for Soccer and Gymnastics? They need to be either incredibly shit or pissing the money away.

>>7804213

to. adjust. for. the. body. fat. disadvantage.

reading. comprehension.

>>7804283
Are you the TERF roleplayer from clg?

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>>7804301
Nope, I don't read comics

>>7804195
>HS sports are for everyone
Can Jonathan join the swim team?

>>7804247
>>7804283
>>7804336
God forbid we dont have the best for the highschool girls football, tennis and swimming teams. The whole world is depending on them.

>>7804394
>implying these children can't participate in school sports because they aren't "the best"
>implying playing sports isn't a privilege
People aren't entitled to participate in school sports, simple as that. Trannies need to join their own tranny leagues because HS sports aren't for EVERYONE.

Hey neckbeards and hambeasts -- in addition to no-cut sports and grants for sports the school doesn't offer but outside orgs do (like special olymp), there are also intramurals and disabled sports. The kids you show may not have a choice of the whole range of sports, but they still have a choice.

You just feel bad because there are kids with no legs who are 100 times more athletic than you playing varsity HS basketball while you walked on every single run and sprint you had to do in phys ed and haven't done more than a skip since.

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>>7804446
>You just feel bad because there are kids with no legs who are 100 times more athletic than you playing varsity HS basketball while you walked on every single run and sprint you had to do in phys ed and haven't done more than a skip since.
Why would I feel bad about that? No longer being forced to do phys ed was the best thing that's ever happened to me.

>>7804247
>>7804407
>children aren't entitled to receive education in schools

>>7804446
Nah, disabled sports can be fun to watch.
I have a friend who does wheelchair rugby, aka murderball, and it's really entertaining.
Regular rugby is rough, but the wheelchair players kick it up an extra notch. I don't know if they just don't give a fuck because they're already disabled or need to prove themselves or what, but it's fun to watch them just ram their wheelchairs full force into each other. It's also co-ed because when you can't use three or four of your limbs, sex hardly counts.

>>7804484
If schools do not accommodate disabled children, I see no reason why it should accommodate trannies. Plenty of children do not get to participate in sports in HS, trannies need to stop acting like it's some sort of tragedy they're not allowed to compete, particularly when they are responsible for their own disqualification. They can either choose to participate in sports and postpone their transition or transition and give up sports. Life is about making choices.

>>7804516
If schools don't accommodate disabled children or trannies, why should they accommodate girls? Girls can either compete with the guys or just do other classes.

>>7804407
These children can't participate in sports because of their own health concerns not for the point you were trying make by using them. You chose exaggerated examples and I kept focus on your main argument.
>implying playing sports isn't a privilege
I am saying that yes.
>People aren't entitled to play in school sports
You're right. And so when a school decides to include transgender kids the ones who diagree can leave. After all the trans kids qualified as well whether Becky likes it or not.

>>7804526
Because girls are 50% of the population. Trannies can get accommodation when they are 50% of the population.

>>7804529
And schools shouldn't include transgender students because it's not fair for the other students. Simple solution for simple problem. Trannies can join special tranny leagues outside of school the way all disabled students do when they want to participate in sport leagues that can accommodate for their special needs.

>>7804577
How is it not fair, assuming the trans kid is on hormones and has normal hormone levels for their competing gender?

>>7804593
Aaaand we're back:

>>7804087

Full circle, gentlemen

>>7804577
>Because girls are 50% of the population.
Boys and girls who aren't in the top 5% of their gender are 95% of the population, yet you want them excluded from sports.

Even though many of those boys will be better players than half the students you grant the privilege of playing sports to.

But you're fine with that sexist bias.

>>7804599
>Boys and girls who aren't in the top 5% of their gender are 95% of the population, yet you want them excluded from sports.
>citation needed

>>7804596
Because you still haven't given a proper explanation of why.

>b-but t-they're t--tall! a-annd hips!!!

Unless you're suggesting we should ban all tall kids or any kids with a different body type from the norm from playing, that's not good enough.

The fact is, some people will have physical advantages. Some people have legs better suited to running, some people put on muscle more easily, etc. You cannot level these factors out without getting ridiculous
.
It's a simple fact of all physical sports, we don't start in the same place, we don't improve at the same rate, and we all have different skill limits and ceilings.

>>7804615
Because we've decided that biological females should be in one league and biological males in another and anyone using artificial hormones should be disqualified.

>>7804622
We haven't or else OP's story wouldn't have happened. And all those examples of trans athletes wouldn't exist either.

>>7804622
>Because we've decided
>because we arbitrarily said fuck you to biological males who aren't in the top fraction, disabled people and trans people, and then arbitrarily said don't you worry to the top girls who wouldn't meet any qualifications
Real fair and balanced there anon.

Pure coincidence that the way it arbitrarily is, in your mind, just happens to be the system you've set your heart on, I'm sure.

>>7804577
You
>People aren't entitled to play school sports
Also you
>It's not fair for the other students

>>7804644
We have which is why OP's school board is getting sued and controversy follow trans athletes everywhere.

>>7804660
It's pretty much a fuck you to anyone but the top 5-25% of male and female people. Want your kid to get a real shot at sports? Send them to a private school.

>>7804661
The fairness to many overrules the fairness to a few

>>7804669
OP's school board is getting sued because they wouldn't let him play in the boy's league. If they simply let him play with the guys, there wouldn't be any media about it.

>>7804669
>It's pretty much a fuck you to anyone but the top 5-25% of all people and female people.
FTFY

Yes the distinction is important.

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>>7803755
>basically inject yourself with steroids daily
>surprised when you're stronger than most men

>>7804886
Read the article fucknugget, he was forced to compete with the girls.

And the whole point of FtM testosterone therapy is to get within normal male ranges. He would not have had an advantage over cis dudes, just girls.

interesting. how much test is a ftm allowed to take?

>>7805290
not sure exactly the amount, but its somewhere in the mid male range because otherwise his body starts converting the testosterone to estrogen and giving the opposite effect of the wanted one

>>7805332
You could always use an aromatase inhibitor to get around that and that's how cis men doing steroids do it as the whole estrogen conversion is not specific to FtMs, but no doctor is going to prescribe it and the super high dose of test as part of a transgender HRT program.

>>7805343
yeah, its probably not worth mentioning in the context of competitive sports and hormones giving trans people an unfair advantage though, since i assume its illegal for people to use for that purpose, trans or not

>>7805343
Also, standard dose for FtMs is 200 mg testosterone enanthate or testosterone cypionate biweekly or 100 mg weekly/every 10 days.
Hardly anything when it comes to the steroid world.

>>7805332
i mean, then why would male athletes roid if it had an opposite effect? i would imagine pretty much all of them have at the very least mid male range

>>7805368
Already mentioned, but you have to get into huge doses for that to start happening and you can block it out with an aromatase inhibitor anyway.

What's the point of sports?

>>7806149

1. To learn that there can be joy in both winning and losing, and disappointment in either.

2. To learn to set achievable, measurable goals and be the best that you can be.

3. To learn simple team, training, and drilling structures that are used in every practical environment everywhere.

4. To learn that rules and safety make a game more enjoyable and more valuable for everyone -- a tradition that goes back thousands of years as a social lesson in curtailing violence.

5. To have an opportunity to compete at different leagues at different levels, at least in the First World, so that you can always come back to that fulfillment that comes in the simple pursuits of training, winning, and losing.

>>7806394
None of this matters in the modern world. It's just a huge waste of money and resources for everybody involved.

>>7806425
A school's job is to educate pupils, not invest in them.

>>7803755
End gender segregation and this stops being an issue.