I apologize if this is inappropriate but I figured that this

>>7740000
Gender As A Service

proprietary gender models with a shit ton of vendor lock-in and mutual incompatibility to the point where it's absolutely impossible to create a coherent standard

new genders that are completely incompatible with previous versions, dropping support for not-even-legacy features and breaking the API

>>7740000
It isn't, it's like BDD and is often comirbid with anorexia, HRT and surgery can mostly fix the pain

>>7740000
>Is gender a social construct?
yes

>Is gender a spectrum?
in a sense

>Are there differences between males and females besides physical?
depends what you mean by "male" and "female." if you're asking whether or not brain sex is a thing or if things like gender roles are innately tied to your natal sex, no one can answer for sure, certainly not anyone on this website. a lot of studies say no, some say yes but it's slight. there's always going to be some kind of bias in a study like that.

(for the record, gender dysphoria is almost definitely a neurological phenomenon, whether or not male or female brains are inherently different.)

>Are multiple genders legitimate?
depends who you ask. most here will say no.

in my personal opinion, i think there's no reason to identify as anything but male or female unless you experience genuine dysphoria that prevents you from being comfortable in either a purely male or purely female body, to the point that it would be even less practical to identify as one or the other.

also nice quads

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>>7740000
>Is gender a social construct?
Gender is a lot of things including sex, gender identity, and gender role. Gender role, or how one interacts with society via gender, is a social construct. The spectrum that is biological sex is not a social construct, but the classification of sex into two categories, and the labeling of babies into those categories at birth, are social constructs.
>Is gender a spectrum? It can be to some people, but not to other people.
>Are there differences between males and females besides physical?
Yes, there are detectable brainwave differences and these differences appear to validate to some degree most trans people's gender identities.
>Are multiple genders legitimate?
I know that some people with dissociative identity disorder(aka multiple personalities) display different genders at different times, but as to whether this is true for other people too, I don't know.

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This got long, sorry.

>>7740000
>Is gender a social construct?
Yes.
Gender is a social construct molded around sex. Sex is not a social construct - it is a medical and biological truth, though it is heavily informed by the social construct of gender. We can define women resp. men as USUALLY being one thing, but we can never set a strict mold of man/woman.
An example is that if we define a woman as a person who is capable of carrying a child, we are not only excluding trans women, but also infertile cis women, pre-pubescent children and post-menopausal women, and intersex people who we would otherwise gender as women.
Stating that there is a strict male/female dichotomy isn't true, plain and simple. Reality resists simplicity.

>Is gender a spectrum?
It is a social construct, so it is what the society it exist in decide it is.
There have always been cultures in which people were defined by genders other than male/female, though we in the west commonly redefine these people as weird men/women rather than opening up for the option that they can be something else.

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>>7740159
>Are there differences between males and females besides physical?
Yes. Because while gender is a social construct, so is money, or language, or ethics. Something being a societal construct doesn't make it not-real, it just means it's something we've collectively shaped. As long as we live in a society that consequently constructs gender, there are going to be differences.
A good rule of thumb, though? There are always going to be bigger gaps within the genders than there will be between them. Chances are that I and your random male from somewhere around the globe will be far more different than the average man and the average woman.

>Are multiple genders legitimate?
Depends on who you ask. I IDd as gender queer for very long, and it was definitely a learning experience and an important journey I had to make. I still consider myself non-binary, because I believe in what is stated above and because I actively reject the very firm ideas society have about sex and gender. I do this just by being a transmasculine person actively chosing to transition. Also by chosing to transition without doing SRS. Also by chosing to being gender-nonconforming in presentation and expression.
I label myself as a man because 1) it is easier, and 2) realizing that the dichotomy was false to begin with I feel less of a need to distance myself from it.
They can obviously be legitimate insofar as performing different genders - this is what we talk about when we talk about boy/girlmode. We have different genders we function as socially, and these inform the ways we identify ourselves and how we relate to our sex. I am never as dysphoric as when I don a gender that I do not feel comfortable in. At the same time, I rarely feel dysphoric when I do drag/crossdressing as opposed to just doing girlmode.

OP here. Thank you for your responses they're all pretty much consistent. Okay here are some of my other questions.

If gender is a social construct then isn't it correct to claim there are two genders? As in society has only constructed two genders.

Follow up question I understand that gender is performative not necessarily physical so isn't being a trans woman the same gender as a cis woman since they are both performing the same gender?

Isn't gender fluidity not a separate gender but rather a fluctuation between two genders?

>>7740359
>If gender is a social construct then isn't it correct to claim there are two genders? As in society has only constructed two genders.
well...it depends on the society. several non western cultures, as >>7740189 said, have/had pretty widely accepted genders outside of binary man/woman. and i think nowadays nonbinary genders etc. are at least common enough to be considered part of our conception of gender. not that everyone agrees they exist, but in a way, someone labeling themself as genderfluid or whatever means they're 'constructing' it, right? especially since not everyone just keeps it all in their head, and other people that accept them to be that non binary gender exist. but i also don't think there's really one correct answer to this question.
>Follow up question I understand that gender is performative not necessarily physical so isn't being a trans woman the same gender as a cis woman since they are both performing the same gender?
yes. i think the concept of gender performance is a little more complicated than that, but i haven't read enough to feel comfortable clarifying.
>Isn't gender fluidity not a separate gender but rather a fluctuation between two genders?
correct. i don't think there are many people who call themselves gender fluid who wouldn't say that--unless they also feel they at times do not have a gender at all.

>>7740359
Aw fuck did I get here too late? I have a different opinion than the others.

>>7740557
not OP, but you might as well post it. maybe we'll have some not-completely-worthless discussion on this board for once.

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>>7740359
>1
Yes and no. If we all agreed that there are two strict genders and then agreed on two strict ways to perform them, we'd have only two genders. But we don't all agree on that, and the way we have shaped these genders is flawed enough that even if we did there would inevitably be people falling outside of those frames. Even if we decided that literally the only qualification would be "everyone who wants to be a man/woman is one" there would inevitably be people questioning that framework and falling outside of it, and those make up society just as much as everyone else.

>2
They can be. In some places I am a man, in other places the fact that I have a uterus is relevant enough to warrant the label trans man. In other places, such as here, my history of being NB is relevant, so I am transmasculine and gender nonconforming. Trans women are women. But sometimes the "trans" part is relevant. Just like "disabled" or "east asian" or "sikh" it will be present or not due to context. We all chose how prominent terms like "trans" or "gender nonconforming" are in our identification.

>3
It's a way of relating to your gender. You will get different answers depending on who you ask; I chose gender queer because I found that "fluid" implied a switch rather than a throughly different way to experience and relate to the identity man/woman.

>>7740000
you will not get any satisfying answers from this cesspool

OP here.

Let me reiterate that my arguments are only to be socratic and not a condemnation of anyone's gender performance but I have to challenge some of these answers.

What makes something a gender? as in what makes something an attribute of gender?

Why is eating a sandwich no more masculine or feminine than the colors pink or blue?

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>>7740000
>Sure
>Yes biological see is not gender
>Gender is a theory there isn't a limit

>>7740642

Oh ye of little faith!
Hast thou not heard of the wisdom of the crowd?

Gender isn't a social constructs, but its contents are. Gender is a fact of psychological attribution of oneself and others. It's similar to how children instinctively recognize their parents -- it's imprinted into the biology of our perception.

Gender is not a social construct.

>>7740000
>Is gender a social construct?
I dont think so. Certain gender sterotypes maybe such as the colours pink and blue but I feel as if the David Reimer case and the study that showed similar toy preferences in male and female monkeys to male and female humans show us that the is something more biological at the base of our gender identification.
>Is gender a spectrum?
I dont think so. I think there is male and female. I think there is a chance people could identify as neither but I think gender is a very black and white issue whereas again though someones gender presentation could vary along a spectrum of masculine to feminine.
>Are there differences between males and females besides physical?
Depends on what you mean by physical differences. I think boys are more likely to take risks and girls are more empathetic naturally.
>Are multiple genders legitimate
Refer to my second point.

https://youtu.be/elsULAJ6Ukw

>>7740000

>Is gender a social construct?
Gender roles are a social construct. The idea that women are the caretakers while men are the bread-winners is completely fabricated. But, I think there is an intrinsic sexual identity, such as cis people that really happen to really enjoy their birth sex, as well as trans people who happen to experience extreme amounts of dysphoria.

>Is gender a spectrum?
Gender is not binary, but I don't know if spectrum is the most accurate way to describe it, since that implies some sort of smooth gradient. I just see agender, genderqueer, non-binary, etc. as all belonging to a third "other" category.

>Are there differences between males and females besides physical?
You will see differences in the average male vs average female. But you will also see differences between your average white vs average black, average straight vs average gay, as well as other measurable categories.

>Are multiple genders legitimate?
I think it's legitimate, but I also think that the concept may have achieved a bit of a fad status. Like, people that don't currently accept the expectations and status quo of 'female' are revolting against it, but rather than pushing the boundaries of 'female' they are jumping ship over into 'other'.

>>7740359
>If gender is a social construct then isn't it correct to claim there are two genders? As in society has only constructed two genders.
Some societies have managed fine with a 3+ gender model (looking at you, Thailand). It's the west that seems stuck on the 2 only rule.

Follow up question I understand that gender is performative not necessarily physical so isn't being a trans woman the same gender as a cis woman since they are both performing the same gender?
Eh. It's sort of a performance, but that's approaching the subject with a cookie-cutter mindset. I will not have the same experiences as a cis woman, even if in the end we both wear relatively similar clothes and get addressed with female pronouns.

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Who the fuck knows? Politically correct pseudo-scientists have already obscured reality too much by flooding the media with misleading half-truths that suit their agenda.

I doubt we will ever have solid facts about any of this.

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>>7740000
Is civilization a social construct?
Talk amongst yourselves.
>dumbest thread ever

>>7740000
Gender is a social construct and because of that there are only two genders.

Society only constructed two genders to reflect reproductive roles seen in nature, it is impossible to present as anything other than male or female because they are constructed as opposites. You could only present as another gender in a society that even has a definition for your gender, otherwise it doesn't make any sense.

In a lot of ways, gender is like a language. People need to speak the language in order for it to exist.

>>7740000
>Is gender a social construct?
No desu.
If it was entirely a social construct, people wouldn't experience dysphoria.

In no way is Gender a social construct.

Trans people actually have the brains of that they transition to. We are born this way, only AGPs can detransition.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=A3C4ZJ7HyuE

Not to mention the person who first claimed Gender was a social construct attempted to prove it. His test subjects, male, who had their penis removed at birth, given bottom surgery, and raised as a girl his whole life on HRT, never once desired to be girl and later was an hero.

These studies combined show just how little sociology plays a part in any of this

>>7740000
>possible Agender
I stopped reading. Please go away and do not return.

>>7740000
>Is gender a social construct?
no
>Is gender a spectrum?
no
>Are there differences between males and females besides physical?
yes
>Are multiple genders legitimate?
no

honestly go back to tumblr, and take all the retards who answered this shit incorrectly with you

>Agender
Stopped reading there.

>>7741627
gender = brain sex
gender role = social construct

I love it when cis people come here to ask questions about trannies and have to promise like 5 times that they're trying to be respectful and just want to learn.
I mean, it's pretty justified considering our image, but it's still cute.

>>7740000
>Is gender a social construct?
It depends on how you define gender. People who say it's not a social construct are usually defining it as 'brain sex', as in a neurological aspect of our sex that influences behaviour (without which, transgender people arguably wouldn't exist, since without any difference between genders in the mind, there'd be no basis for dysphoria).

But things like gender expectations, roles, etc, are all social constructs. However, they're likely highly influenced by brain-sex, since consistent sex-specific trends can be observed in overall populations. Eg, in general women/females are nurturing (which doesn't mean every woman is) and men/males are physically competitive (which doesn't mean every man is).

So yes and no, depending on who you ask and what they mean.

>Is gender a spectrum?
Masculinity and femininity are a spectrum - ie, the behaviours/expressions associated with each sex/gender.
Gender itself, again depends how you define it.
I'd say pretty much everything is on a spectrum, since all we can do is label natural phenomenon with infinite capacity to vary. But I don't personally think it's a spectrum to the extent that it's necessary to point out.

>Are there differences between males and females besides physical?
I believe so, as mentioned above.

>Are multiple genders legitimate?
I don't believe so.
Since there can be intersexual and transgendered variation in how a human develops, I could kinda buy that it's possible be mentally/neurologically caught between trans and cis just as an intersex person can be caught between sex traits. But I don't really think these qualify as new genders, just rare disorders that aren't practical to account for in the general system.
At most, I can buy 'nonbinary' as a general in-between term, even though I think it's mostly just trans people who haven't figured themselves out yet. But gays used to say bi people were just afraid to fully come out, which is stupid, so who knows.

>>7740000
>Is gender a social construct
gender roles are, gender isn't. Gender identities have biological causes from the brain structure.
>Is gender a spectrum
In the sense that you can have intersex people and chromosomal arrangements beyond a binary, it would seem there is.
>Are there differences between males and females besides physical?
Yes, brain structure is different.
>Are multiple genders legitimate
I dunno what that means, do you mean a single person having multiple genders? Doesn't have any scientific evidence behind it that I know of.

The end.

>>7740000

>Is gender a social construct?

yes

>Is gender a spectrum?

no. i'm using 'gender' to mean 'man' 'woman' etc. gender is social groups. social groups are not a spectrum. since the social groups are based on sex, sex = gender. "agender male" is an impossibility.

>Are there differences between males and females besides physical?

obviously. political and social differences exist.

>Are multiple genders legitimate?

saying a single individual can occupy multiple social groups based on a single defining trait (in this case, sex/gender) authentically is wrong. but obviously society can support multiple social groups.