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Anonymous
Arguments for Why is Passing Important 2017-02-11 07:35:22 Post No. 7738605
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Arguments for Why is Passing Important 2017-02-11 07:35:22 Post No. 7738605
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MtF's of 4chan, have a question for those of you that like to debate.
I have a therapist that i've been seeing for a little over a year that's overall been really helpful with transitioning and is pretty much the reason why i'm on HRT right now.
The only thing we really don't see eye to eye on is the importance of passing which to a certain extent makes sense when you consider the fact she is a pretty conventionally attractive cis lesbian that doesn't even look like a "lesbian" if that makes sense. In other words she blends in perfectly with the rest of society, which in my opinion makes her incredibly biased when we talk about why or why not passing is super important.
I kind of feel like we are beginning to hit a wall in our relationship because passing is extremely important to me, I wouldn't be transitioning if there wasn't a part of me that didn't believe with enough effort I can pass and live with a certain degree of stealth.
Her argument for why passing isn't important is best captured in the old saying "those that mind don't matter and those that matter don't mind," which to me basically translates to please disregard all of the people you will interact with on a basic level for the rest of your life because they are unimportant, what matters is that you have a base of support that sees you the way you see yourself.
Now this approach may be more necessary for MtFs transitioning in later in life, but all memes aside I started pretty young (21) and really feel like my goals aren't unrealistic.
So basically my question is what are some ways through reasonable discussion I can prove to my extremely liberally minded therapist passing is important?
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>>7738605
Passing absolutely does matter. It's not just about personal relationships. It's about opportunities and basic safety. If you pass, you'll be far less likely to face discrimination or be harassed/attacked. Even your friends and family will subconsciously treat you like a man (or an "other") if you don't pass. It's not bigotry. It's just human nature.
There's also romantic options. If you pass, a straight man is more likely to give you a chance, especially if you wait a few dates to tell him (so he gets to know you before judging you as a transwoman).
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>>7738668
>even your friends and family will subconsciously treat you like a man (or an "other") This is something I strongly believe as well but the evidence feels very intangible and hard to describe without sounding paranoid, does that make sense?
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>>7738605
>the importance of passing
your therapist isn't biased because she fits in.
she is biased because the goal of therapy is to get you to stop caring about what other people think about you and instead focus on what you think about yourself.
she's right.
what other people think of you is none of your business.
whether they think you look like a woman or not is simply not important.
what is important is that you feel internally cohesive with your outward appearance.
what is important is that you look like you feel.
stop caring what other people think, you can never make everyone happy.
you can only make yourself happy.
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>>7738605
You have BDD, not passing perfectly pushes that to unbearable levels. Your body is all that matters, you can't live rotten. If you want to fix it, force them to write letters for FFS.
And the people who obviously don't pass but still socially transition are wrong. They make others uncomfortable and promote hatred paranoia and fear against lgbt by going around like that.
Those complacent men boddied things also are disproportionately, criminal, sex predators and wife beaters, so there is probably a correlation with being okay with hondom.
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>>7738668
>a straight man
straight men want real women.
you are never going to be a real woman in the sense that you will never have original female organs capable of reproduction.
you need to accept that.
and cis female women also face discrimination and are harassed and attacked.
you need to be mindful of your surroundings to ensure your safety, whether or not you "pass"
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>>7738739
This sounds like it was written by one of the monsters who ends up in the mugshots of GenderTrender
Youve got no problem with terrorizing and frightening women and children. Of doing what's badically sexual abuse and harassment around them by invading their spaces with your monsterous ape form.
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>>7738748
>force them
would you like to be forced?
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>>7738766
>your monsterous ape form
you don't know me
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>>7738775
It's a worthless person who wants you to stagnate and become another monster unless they're actively trying to help you fix everything wrong. Denounce them and leave if they want to block you from controll over your body.
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>>7738784
You think it's okay to go around terrifying and sexually harrasing women and children as some gigantic hypervirile man. It's people like you why the public hates lgbt and thinks they're all predatoes and monsters.
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>>7738739
I don't get this. How can you be so deluded and narcissistic as to just disregard everyone but yourself? If you don't pass, most people don't see you as a woman, period. And that's absolutely important to me.
I would like to make friends and fit into society as a woman. Deluded unaware hon monsters in I'll fitting clothes are terrifying. I'd rather fucking die.
>what is important is that you look like you feel.
If I look like a man, then I will NEVER look how I feel.
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>>7738819
You are projecting so hard, darling.
I didn't terrorize or sexually harass anyone.
I merely told OP to stop caring what other people think about her appearance and focus on how she feels about her appearance.
Take your medicine and calm down.
Everything is going to be all right.
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>>7738878
There is a direct correlation with criminality and the self centeredness, narcissism, ugliness and deluded disregard for others you need to ignore being a hon and force your way around into everyone no matter the harm it causes all. Agp/turbohons seems to be a state that breeds the worst behaviors of humanity right down to rapists, if you have those personality traits they'll lead you to more depravities.
At any rate they think your abuser mentality is unconsciounable too.
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>>7738811
>Denounce them and leave
This makes me laugh out loud.
You are paying your therapist to help you.
Denouncing them and leaving because you don't like their well-reasoned advice is only hurting yourself.
I suppose you think you know best?
Well then why are you going to a therapist in the first place, Miss Know-It-All?
The level of toxic denial on this board is overwhelming.
Most transwomen are NEVER going to pass.
This is a fact.
Demanding that you pass is not going to make it happen, no matter how loudly you shriek and stamp your feet.
Threatening to kill yourself is just needless drama.
Make peace with the cards that you have been dealt.
This life is a gift.
Learn to accept and enjoy it for what it is.
Stop demanding that it be better.
Marilyn Monroe had everything and she was still unhappy.
Do you think that you are somehow better than her?
Stop being unhappy.
It is a waste of time.
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>>7738914
>Most transwomen are NEVER going to pass.
Euthanisia is the only way out of that
You want them to stick around with someone who wants them to stagnate and stay a man who gets progressively more manly when stuff like ffs could fix both their bdd and social dysphoria.
You're an insane complacent monster like the one who violated me as a kid, the GC are right, we need to find ways to ban non passers from ever socialy transitioning or going into spaces where their shamelwss bodies are likely to assault somebody.
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>>7738914
>This life is a gift
this life is one of many. end this one you pitiful monster and you might finally get one where you're a real human being.
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>>7738940
>Euthanisia is the only way
No.
Acceptance of one's limitations is a better way.
Nobody is perfect.
Death is not an escape.
You will simply reincarnate until you have learned the lessons that his life is meant to teach you.
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>>7738914
I literally saw this same post in Susan's, you're probabaly a troll from there or pol
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>>7738958
Dying so you don't become a menace and burden to others is the noble way out. If things truly turn out to be hopeless then I'll start looking for a good way to do it.
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>>7738951
>you pitiful monster
you keep calling me this.
i guess you think i'm a hon or something because i don't think people should stress about passing?
i'm a cis gay male.
people called me fag all my life because i was an effeminate male.
i stopped caring what other people thought about me long ago.
i'm hardly pitiful and i'm not a monster.
i have a good life with family and friends that love me.
i spent a lot of time in therapy and it helped.
i'm sorry if you disagree with the therapist's position, but she is right in my humble opinion.
caring what other people think is a recipe for insecurity and unhappiness.
i hope you can find happiness.
i wish you the best.
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>>7738739
OP here, not sure if this is a troll post based on your image but this approach to transition pretty much mirrors my therapist's philosophy so I'll bite.
>instead focus on what you think about yourself
Well right now i know I don't pass which causes a lot of social dysphoria everywhere I go because I am not being treated the way I see myself by others. This may sound small but overtime it has become an unbearable truth that in my opinion can only be remedied by changing myself externally to reflect what society deems to be a "woman." arguments like these to me seem to view the self as something that exists in a vacuum when in reality to be a functioning human being in any society you are forced to interact with others and take into consideration their feelings / opinions on daily basis, all of which is influenced and related to your presentation. To a certain extent I do believe my desire to pass stems from a place of how I view myself, I wouldn't be doing all of this if I didn't find a deep disgust with my body on a very primal level, part of me believes that if I change my body enough to reflect that which society deems to be "a woman" my feelings of dysphoria will subside greatly. I want to exist in society as a woman, a normal, boring, average, indistinguishable, woman, nothing more, and nothing less.
>what other people think of you is none of your business.
To a certain extent yeah I agree with you. Besides being trans, i'm not exactly "normal" to begin with, and to be honest I've gotten a lot better with not caring how people view me in a lot of ways, but presentation of gender is one area I am still "stuck" on, I don't care if people see me as an ugly woman I just want to be seen as a woman, which from my experience equates to being treated vastly different than someone that sees you only as a man or a faggot or whatever.
>whether they think you look like a woman or not is simply not important
1/2
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>>7738972
Get out you animal, you're trying to turn us into monsters. You'll soon find most of us would rather die than fall to the level you want us to sink to.
>i wish you the best.
You wished and preached that we all turn into twisted monstrous abominations.
You're a monster your self, the same as the rapist. I hate you and all your kind now with all my being. We should all die together. Maybe the new goverment will help is in that.
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>>7738914
I love the gender crits, they're working to pass laws keeping nonpassers from socially transitionin or accessing spaces
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>>7738972
>i'm a cis gay male.
Fuck off then. Cis people telling us we're wrong to loathe our bodies is patronizing as hell and a joke.
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>>7738972
Not caring what other people think is a sign of sociopathy
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>>7738760
Nah, my bf is a straight guy. He was honestly really shocked I was trans, but decided that it didn't change anything in our relationship.
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>>7738979
>I am not being treated the way I see myself by others
Specifically, what?
They aren't using your pronouns?
They aren't opening doors for you?
They aren't flirting and asking you out on dates?
They aren't catcalling and grabbing your butt?
Why do you expect others to treat you a certain way?
Why do you need others to treat you a certain way in order to feel good about yourself?
People don't bow down to me when I pass them in the street and call me "Emperor" but it would be foolish of me to expect that, even though I feel like the Ruler of All I Survey on the inside.
>>7739011
I'm not saying you shouldn't try to look nice or feminine or whatever.
I'm saying that if someone calls you Sir you shouldn't let it ruin your day.
>I hate you and all your kind now with all my being
I guess you're trying to be funny or dramatic or something but it is lost on me.
I'm sure somebody finds you pretty, but I have to say I'm starting to think that if you are beautiful it is only skin deep.
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>>7738739
2/2 Again as I stated in my previous post IS important because it influences how you are treated in society. For instance, this may not be the case for you but right now I live in a state that is attempting to pass legislation that bars people from using bathrooms that don't coincide with their birth sex, obviously this law will unfairly target those in the trans community that don't "pass" as what our society deems to be a "woman." Thats only one example, but I can think of plenty other female spaces I would forever feel extremely out of place or barred from entering assuming I never pass as a "woman." So yeah as much as I would like to say "fuck everyone I'm a woman because I feel that way internally and have lots of body dysphoria!" it gets more complicated in the real world. The rest of your post feels like a variation of the things i've already answered in these two posts so I will simply end with this, given everything i've stated is it really so wrong that some of my happiness in life will stem from the desire to be treated in everyday situations as a woman?
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>>7739066
>equating transitioning and gender to being an emperor
Cool thanks for the insight.
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>>7739066
Fuck off you monster, you're still trying to convert everyone to some shameless complacency with looking like a monster and terrifying everyone.
You said OP shouldnt be allowd to have surgery that could potentially fix everything for them and that they're wrong to demand it.
You cheer and say we will always look like monsters. No, dying is preferable to that. We will die with dignity at least and defy your twisted will.
And the ones who won't kill themselves deserve all sorts of laws banning them from socially transitioning and using restrooms.
Fuck you, I'm gonna make friends with the fundies and help them so you can hurt as well.
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>>7739066
You're mocking people and their pain, I think you're making them all hate faggots.
Even fem'boys suffer agony from BDD and you just need to look at their spaces, you're probably just some hideous old troll that thinks being hated is normal.
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>>7739073
>is it really so wrong that some of my happiness in life will stem from the desire to be treated in everyday situations as a woman?
it is not wrong, no.
but giving the key to your happiness to someone else is giving up control.
and i would argue that if you are able to get your identification documents changed to match your desired gender then you will be legally able to use the correct bathroom for you, even in the most conservative states.
i understand your pain and desire for acceptance.
i wish i could wave a magic wand and make it all better for you.
but the real world is hard and sometimes we need to toughen up a little to survive in it.
i'm sending you love and wishing you happiness in your journey.
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>>7739116
Fortunately they're fixing that social transition stuff with laws, in this year alone it will be illegal in more than twenty states.
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>>7739116
You said they can change their body and to give up and resign themselves to a situation where they become more hideous with each day.
You're deliberately trying to sabotage everyone like the creepy old man you are.
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>>7739091
>implying feminine privilege isn't majestic
Cool thanks for the insight.
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>>7739099
Ah hahahahahaha!
I never said any of those things.
I guess you're trying to bump your thread.
Good luck to you in your transition.
*hugs*
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>>7739141
Lying old troll >>7738914
You condemned me for saying that FFS was ops best shot for easing their pain and getting a normal life
Then you said we're all monsters who will always be monsters. You're pushing your preferred lifestyle on us, we'll either succeed or die so we don't become monsters like you.
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>>7739105
>you're making them all hate
i'm not making anybody hate anyone.
we all suffer at times.
i have genuine compassion for people who feel like they are trapped in the wrong body.
sometimes i feel old and hideous.
sometimes i feel hated, but i don't think it is normal.
i've been lucky to have people in my life who love and accept me as i am, flaws and defects and all.
sure, i wish i could change things about me but i don't hinge my happiness or existence on them being changed.
and i try not to let other people influence my opinion of myself.
i know that i'm a good person with good intentions.
it doesn't matter to me if you believe something else.
i hope you can find happiness someday.
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>>7739141
Honestly you give the same vibes as the the animal who attacked me when I was a kid. Hope you get bashed honestly.
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>>7738605
>Her argument for why passing isn't important is best captured in the old saying "those that mind don't matter and those that matter don't mind,"
Ask her since looking like a cis girl doesn't matter, why take HRT at all, since people who matter won't mind treating you as a girl even if you're just crossdressing?
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>>7739174
You told them they will never pass and to just give up, stop doing things that could mame them pass
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>>7739187
thanks thats actually a good point, i'll make sure and mention that next time i see her.
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>>7739177
>still hasn't learned that what you put out into the universe is what is returned to you
sweetheart.
i'm sorry you were attacked by an animal when you were a kid.
that shouldn't have happened.
but don't let it define your existence.
the key to this life is to move past the hurt and to let love in to your life.
and when you give love to others, it is returned to you.
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>>7739234
Just make sure she can't threaten your acess to hrt. Get IC to write it for you as a back up.
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>>7739246
I was violated by someone like you
And here you are telling us that we all will will never pass and to give up and never try things that could fix things and save our lives
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>>7739234
Make sure you get a proper answer from her. You can adjust the question and try again if she's unclear, like asking why even crossdress since people who matter can just be asked "please treat me like a girl"
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>>7739187
>people who matter won't mind treating you as a girl even if you're just crossdressing
this is true.
people who matter will treat you the way you want to be treated even if you dress like a furry or a clown.
>>7739259
>you are telling us that we all will will never pass
i didn't say that you will never pass.
i said that most transpeople don't pass.
if you want to devote your life to passing, then by all means do so.
but don't be surprised if it doesn't make you happy.
some people spend their lives trying to become "beautiful" so that they don't feel "ugly"
pic related
but therapy teaches you that cutting your body will not make you feel beautiful because how you feel is dependent on how you decide to feel, not on what your body looks like.
you think that you are unhappy because of how you look, but you are unhappy because of how you think.
change your thinking (ie. stop being dependent on other people's approval) and you will instantly be happier.
i know this works because i did it myself.
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>>7738605
She's probably a radical feminist and hasn't considered that you want to pass for reasons besides looking pretty, like basic safety, or dysphoria, or pretty much anything a fucking therapist treating a trans person should understand.
She obviously means well, but goddamn that's naive.
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>>7739125
What's your source?
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>>7739329
You told us we wouldn't pass, to not get medicine that will likely save us and to give up to oblivion.
>because how you feel is dependent on how you decide to fee
This is the same selfish mentality sex abusers have.
We will live by our ideals and if we fall off the path and die then so be it. At best I'll get a new life at worst the pain will be over. I'll sooner die than give up and do things your disgusting way, belive me, I have nothing but spite for the way you debase us and trick us.
We don't need you trying to convince us we can't win and telling us to become monsters.
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>>7739344
>like basic safety
>implying passing women don't get attacked
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>>7739347
20 states either banning document changes or bathroom laws. Soon the only option people will have is to pass very well if they want to socialy transition.
This at least prevents the gay mans idea of giving up
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>>7739344
Just leave if she won't let you get ffs and one star her with all reviews and complain to wpath
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>>7738760
>posts a drag queen in full drag makeup
>posts the same 4chan anti-trans memes posted every day
>cis women are also attacked and this is exactly the same as what trans women face!
You're bad at this.
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>>7738605
My therapist said the same thing. At least i pass now so i can shrug off all that touchy feely self love bullshit and just live like a normal chick
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>>7739390
You need ffs, you barely have it working and that will make it more secure
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>>7739351
>monsters!!!
protip: monsters aren't real
they are just products of your imagination
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>>7739360
it will go to the supreme court and trans people will get guaranteed protection.
it's not the end of the world.
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>>7739407
I was abused by a monster. Monsters shouldn't be allowed to exist.
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>>7739413
It's much better the Antitrans laws win.
This ensures that the only trans to socially transition pass, it prevents people from giving up and becoming complacent monsters like the fag wants.
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>>7739374
>one star her
>that will teach her!
that will teach her to not take on trans people as patients and you will become ever more desperate pariahs.
>fight everyone who tries to help us!
it's like you're suffering from post traumatic stress disorder
i guess growing up trans was difficult
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>>7739432
I mean it's like burning your ships, it ensures you suceed or die trying. It's the incentive we need.
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>>7739357
Women experience SIGNIFICANTLY less violence than men. Take your feminist memes back to plebbit.
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>>7739434
If it's someone who has a conspiracy to make all trans look like the monster in your image then good riddance. If they won't give vital medicine then it's no help.
Not only do they thrive on causing pain but they crest people who look like monsters and promote lgbt hate.
At least if she shows her true colors and gets out, no more harm can be done. Give her one chance and then push her out of treating trans, for the good of anyone else she might ruin.
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>>7739357
Yeah, you typically can't brag about beating the shit out of a cis woman for pissing you off in polite society as a guy. If a guy punches a cis woman, every other guy in the room jumps in to kick the shit out of him. If a guy punches a visibly trans woman, people just watch and laugh while she's beaten to the point of hospitalization. A cis woman can walk up to a guy, call him a pussy bitch faggot that sucks huge dick, slap his drink down, and walk away without a scratch.
Both cis and trans women face oppression in this world, but it's ridiculous to think that cis women have a harder time of things than trans women on average when it comes to personal safety and self-defense.
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>>7739374
I'm not OP.
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>>7739418
>I was abused by a monster
it is all in your head.
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>>7739450
And yet somehow transwomen experience SIGNIFICANTLY more?
Either a penis is a magical deterrent or it is not.
You can't have it both ways.
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>>7739490
Say you shoot a guy. Would you walk up to his family and use this line?
>emotion is just an illusion maaaaaan
>we're all just floating in the aether
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>>7739490
Fuck off, that's the ptsd you mentioned
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>>7739474
>If a guy punches a visibly trans woman, people just watch and laugh while she's beaten to the point of hospitalization.
transwomen actually believe this.
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>>7739520
Happens all the time
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>>7739434
You realize that if you pass you won't become a desperate pariah
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>>7739502
What are you talking about? This is about passing. Where are your stats that PASSING trans women experience more violence than cis women, let alone more violence than men?
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>>7739526
No.
It doesn't.
The only time transwomen get beat up is when they lead a straight guy on, suck his dick and then he finds out.
And nobody sits around and watches.
If they do, then you are in the wrong neighborhood and need to move.
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>>7739502
>And yet somehow transwomen experience SIGNIFICANTLY more?
Yeah, because most don't have the money or the means or the timing or the genetics to publicly pass as cis women. It's the same reason feminine gay men are targeted at an alarming rate. People have been trained to despise people with penises who act feminine for thousands of years at this point. It provides a unique social window for violence. It's uncouth to harm a woman, but if a woman is "really a man" it's fair game.
How is this so difficult to understand?
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>>7739526
So the same treatment men get when they get beaten up?
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>>7739532
You'll still be a desperate pariah, but no one will know.
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>>7739360
But what makes you say that 20 states will do those things? Would you know which states those are? And wouldn't that negatively affect all trans people who start to pass after those laws are made as well?
>>7739390
With how repressed you were, I'm sure you angry at your therapist for that for a while.
>>7739413
You're assuming Trump won't get a few people selected by him to sit on the bench by then.
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>>7739540
>nuh uh!
Ok sweetheart, enjoy that little bubble you're in.
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>>7739543
>Sound The Alarm!!
>It's A Crisis!!
The key to getting ignorant people to stop despising people who are different is not to become invisible.
The solution is to become visible and demand that our friends and family help defend us.
Hiding and pretending to be a woman is only going to make the problem worse.
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>>7739550
NCarolina is one, Texas and many others are highly likely this year
>wouldn't that negatively affect all trans people who start to pass after those laws are made as well?
If they pass then 99% of the time it won't afect them. Certainly not the bathroom one. They just need to make sure not to slip up.
People will be motivated to self improve and pass, things will get better or they'll at least stop being able to be trans if they give up.
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>>7739548
I don't care, so long as I can hide my rot I can live happily.
Dying doesn't mean a lot to me, the only reason I don't want to die is because I think things are going to get better and I'll be able to live a happy life soon.
If that's just a mirage then no point in lingering on.
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>>7739571
>The solution is to become visible and demand that our friends and family help defend us.
What the fuck kind of childlike world of innocence and wonder do you live in where you think that this is how reality works?
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>>7739577
>If they pass then 99% of the time it won't afect them.
I'm talking about important things like a job or university attendance records. And remember you were talking about blocking ID changes.
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>>7739550
>You're assuming
I'm hoping.
But, yeah, I see your point.
However I think that supreme court justices are smart enough to see that transwomen are not going to disappear just because jesus doesn't love them.
Supreme court justices are going to do what is best for the country and that is to give oppressed minorities protection.
That is what has happened in the past and it is likely to continue.
Even conservative judges are not heartless monsters, despite what the media clickbait tells us for pageviews.
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>>7739571
If they look like normal women, the hostility it provokes is much less.
You want people to look like ugly freaks which only generates more hate and thankfully will be legislated out of existence in half the country.
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>>7739607
Blocking Id changes is needed to keep hons who obviously don't pass from flouncing around in spaces they don't belong. ID mismatch isn't a big problem with uni and it won't be a prob with liberal employers
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>>7739610
They will make hons stop being trans. The trans remaining will pass and be normal and therefore public opinion of trans will improve.
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>>7739621
>ID mismatch isn't a big problem
It is if you want a real job and don't want to announce extremely personal info to random strangers you don't know.
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>>7739629
Go Femboy mode for interview come out with supervisor before first day, most Fortune 500 have policies supporting this
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>>7739613
>You want people to look like ugly freaks
No, I don't.
But if people DO happen to look like ugly freaks despite their best efforts then we shouldn't shun them and treat them differently.
That is homophobia.
If you want to be treated equally as a pretty freak, then you need to support legislation that defends ugly freaks as well.
You have to stop feeling superior to people who don't pass.
It isn't their fault.
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>>7739640
>Go Femboy mode
Fucking ew, no.
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>>7739640
>Go Femboy mode for interview come out with supervisor before first day
Wow, what a fantastic guide on how to get fired immediately.
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>>7739644
You said we won't pass and to embrace that. I'd sooner die, the states burning our boats with those laws is the perfect way to make good on that. I'd rather this way than your idea of giving up.
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>>7739621
>keep hons who obviously don't pass from flouncing around in spaces they don't belong
this kind of thinking is what is hindering the trans movement.
who decides what is "passing" and what is "hon"?
Should we have straight men decide if you pass or not?
Should we have trans people decide?
What if you are almost passing but someone decides you're a hon and you are tossed on the garbage heap of life?
Ugly hons deserve to have a happy life just as much as pretty passers.
What if the standard is changed so that everyone without a real vagina is an ugly hon?
How would you feel about that?
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>>7739660
More than half of Fortune 500 and all fed employees have policies banning your firing for that. Document and Hr will override.
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>>7739662
I didn't say give up.
I said stop worrying what other people think.
You can become gorgeous if you want but don't let your happiness depend on it, in case it doesn't happen overnight or at all.
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>>7739669
You told us to give up and become ugly freaks, that we'd never pass and to just resign ourselves to unbearable BDD.
The rule of the game have been changed and it's no longer possible to do things your way. It's an improvement.
I already said I don't care about dying and that I'd the happy life I think I can reach is a lie I have no reason to linger around and suffer in this life any longer.
Either way I won't hurt much longer.
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>>7739687
Then acept that op and everyone else has a right to demand and buy ffs
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>>7739689
>le cry for help
don't fire your therapist just yet.
it is clear you still need her!
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>>7739699
I accept that right.
I'm just saying you shouldn't fire your therapist when she gives you tools to work on your self esteem.
Listen to her.
She is trying to help you.
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>>7738940
>You're an insane complacent monster like the one who violated me as a kid
That never happened. Stop blaming other people for your actions.
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>>7739710
OP here, I stopped posting in this thread awhile ago because it devolved too much for my taste but all the posts that have pictures like the one i've attached here are mine excluding >>7739234
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>>7739772
>creates shitstorm
>walks blissfully away
>feels superior
You're truly living the dream!
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>>7739820
What are you even talking about dude I was just clarifying who I was in the thread??
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>>7739520
28 Transwomen murdered in 2016.
Yes as a matter of fact, we do care about passing well enough to not be murdered.
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>>7741600
How many men were murdered in that time?
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>>7741632
Trans as total only make less than 0.7% of pop
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>>7741663
It doesn't even account for cases of Transwomen that were never reported as such, either.
How many more went under the radar? How many more were simply beaten?
Thinking people don't wish us ill as a general rule is delusional and dangerous.
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Passing is subjective and it's not something your therapist can quantify. Even if it was, she's not a beautician, a plastic surgeon or a tailor.
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>>7738605
ask if theyd like to crossdress and go out with you to lead you in how to feel safe in public
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>>7741663
Men are far more likely to be the victims of violence including murder than women, and yes this includes trans women.
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>>7738760
Nah men just want loyalty womens sexual "liberty" pushed men into being sluts the gays pushed being abnormal to popular and accepted no wonder straight dudea go for traps and beta males transition is this wrong? No live and let live man
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>>7741680
but a woman crossdressing literally wouldn't even be noticed.
there is no way a natal female can understand op's situation.
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>>7739669 if a straight male is attracted it is a pass but you need a good sample size 4chan isn't the way to do this you need to survey chads
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>>7741778
>no wonder straight dudea go for traps and beta males transition
does this happen?!
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>>7741817
If women want to make themselves undesirable and/or reject men, then yes, men will come up solutions as they're inclined to do. Some of them will take one for the team--the ultimate bro sacrifice.
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>>7741817
yes
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>>7741817
Promiscuous traps will suicide because of the realisation that the slut life is disgusting and they realized they were just being used as a sexual fetish, the good ones will stick to finding a solid guy adopting or using their husband's sperm with a surrogat and live a happy life since that's a very small percentage of the trans women I feel like it will be a very uncommon thing but they will be the only ones that truely transition to a woman raise children and make their husbands happy the others will ride the cock carousel and be destroyed mentally >>7741850
Yeah my girlfriend is trans and we had the discussion she is redpilles AF and knows what's up with the modern promiscuity issues today.
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>>7741901
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YwFPJ2AWrEU
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>>7741901
Because everyone hates how narcissitic and selfish cis women are. Men only stand them because pump and dump. Men will practically fuck anything as well
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>>7741892
>being used as a sexual fetish
why is this a bad thing?
you are using them to meet your sexual needs.
how is it any different?
sex is a give and take.
a true meeting of the minds in friendship is a rare thing and usually doesn't coexist with sex.
(except in romance novels)
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>>7741892
>redpilles AF
when will this meme die?
hating people with different skin color is bigotry not "le amazing red pillllleeee!!!!"
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>>
https://discord.gg/SqydvzC
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>>7741966
It's the same trap women fell into the more sexual promiscuity goes up the more more unhappy the women are unless its after they have already had kids
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>>7738605
An effective argument to make would be that while the opinions of people who care about the appearances of others shouldn't matter to you, the reality of the world is that most people are shallow, even if only subconsciously. You should further add that it is your desire to be able to fit in with others and be a more productive member of society, which ultimately requires making some sacrifices (though ultimately, never the sacrifice of your own physical or mental well-being). It should be important to stress that being an outcast is not an enjoyable experience for most people, yourself included.
>>7738739
You are right in that being dependent on others' validation for one's own happiness is bad. However, it is worth noting that things such as a sense of belonging do come before esteem in the hierarchy of needs. To truly be happy, one should not ignore this.
>>7738766
Being ugly around others isn't harassment or sexual abuse. You may not enjoy it, but ugly people have a fundamental right to exist, including in public spaces.
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>>7741994
>isn't harassment or sexual abuse
It's inconsiderate and makes others uncomfortable. It's incomprehensible how someone could bear to live like that when I'm dying from BDD.
And everyone like the well meaning gay anon and that therapist will see this as an excuse to take away every bit of control we have over our bodies, to reduce us to groteque men in dresses who will never be able to get HRT, let alone FFS all under some twisted idea of body positivity.
Those bathroom bills and laws banning ID gender changes are a god send, they will make it all but impossible to be trans unless someone passes well. Maybe as more and more hons get charged for trespassing BC the bathroom stuff or just can't live without the crutch of changed IDs, the therapists will see that we need passing to live and let people get FFS. Things need to get much worse before they can get better.
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>>7739351
Found the fatty.
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>>7742384
You're basically saying others should suffer first under some idea that all therapists are robots that think alike, and acting like free-willed people won't make every effort to pass regardless. If anything you should have learned by now that transpeople are hard-headed as fuck when it comes to their appearance. It's harder to convince them that they look good than anything else. More suffering is not the answer, I don't know what happened to you anon but anyone with empathy should be able to understand that. You need to deal with this underlying anger and move on.
Nevermind not even all transpeople are the same case. I've been told I pass in passgen, I pass in public, my coworkers say I pass, I pass in vocaroo, I pass over the phone, and I still won't go anywhere near Female Only Spaces because I haven't changed my ID yet. I think I'm ugly and clockable to anyone that looks. I'm convinced I'll be harassed the second I set foot anywhere near female spaces. Some of us just want the ID change for that little bit of confidence, not because we're disgusting 50 year old honmonsters abusing a legal document.
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>>7742926
>and I still won't go anywhere near Female Only Spaces because I haven't changed my ID yet.
Why do you think you'll be welcome then?
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>>7742953
Fuck, I had a long reply typed out and fucked up the page.
In short, I don't think transwomen are welcome despite what my cisgirl workers say. I just want to know I won't get arrested for trying to pick the safer option that likely won't get my face beaten in if I happen to get clocked or some psycho peeks through the stall because crazy political pundits have created a demon that does not really exist. For fuck's sake more ugly ciswomen have been harmed by this mentality than transwomen. The whole narrative is poisonous.
Should ugly ciswomen that look like transwomen not be welcome either because we can't be too sure they don't have a broken tiny penis? Should hairy transmen that look more like men than women be only welcome in the women's room?
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Your therapist means well but is clearly biased and has a lack of empathy towards your situation. Same with the gay guy, who is most likely a troll btw.
Try asking her how she would feel if she were in your situation. Ask her what she would do if she were still a lesbian but didn't pass as a natal female and had a penis. How would she cope with being rejected and barred from female spaces and other lesbians viewing her as an invader or a latent sexual predator simply by virtue of having a Y chromosome? How would she cope with people in public calling her by male pronouns and treating her like a man? How would she cope with the fact that if someone attacked her no one would rush to her aid because they would just see a crossdressing man getting beat up? How would she still be able to maintain her female identity when she doesn't pass as one and is biologically male?
These are all valid questions. And yes, even ugly "hons" deserve to be happy and accepted. Coming to terms with your body and identity and surrounding yourself with good people who accept you while devaluing the opinions of total strangers is important as well. But that doesn't magically clear away the very harsh realities of being a visibly trans woman. People are assholes and they're not going to stop being assholes anytime soon.
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>>7742988
Ctrl+C your posts anon!
I think that kind of thing is an inevitable consequence of how society treats gender roles as far more than they should be. There can't be self-enforcing division of society without stigma against people who cross or even just look like they are too near to the line.
But if you're somewhere you think you'll get beaten for being in the men's, I wouldn't bet on your safety in the women's unless you pass well, even if you have changed your ID.
People should just treat each other as people. Then being trans won't be a big deal.
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>>7738605
I can only speak from my own experience, but as someone who's still living in boymode until I'm 100% confident I pass, my biggest reason is that I don't want to make anyone feel uncomfortable, or worse, discourage other people from transitioning.
When I was a kid, most examples of transwomen that I'd seen (or at least, been aware of) were the ones that looked like ugly drag queens, which both made me feel uncomfortable and put me off from the whole idea until I eventually saw examples of passing transwomen online when I was in college. I'm not happy about continuing to live as a guy for now, but I'm worried that I might end up making other people feel uncomfortable if I don't pass, which would just end up making me feel uncomfortable too and I'd end up worse off than I was before, and I wouldn't be able to live with myself if I ended up causing someone else to repress the same way I did.
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>>7743021
True enough.
I don't doubt it, I'm so frail at this point I'm pretty sure most women would overpower and beat me too. But let's not pretend that it's not as dangerous as what a man can do with far little effort or are not more likely to.
I agree, for the record. I don't like old hons but I would never ever mistreat them because of it. But most people haven't suffered to such an extent that they can't bear to do it to anyone else anon. People like to punch down, it's a sad fact of life.
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>>7738739
well what happens if i want to pass because not passing makes me feel like shit, even though i never go outside
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>>7743060
>or are not more likely to.
I don't know about that. Cis women can be vicious.
>I don't like old hons but I would never ever mistreat them because of it.
I think nobody does, including themselves. For them and others it's a matter of finding the best way to deal with them and avoiding being hateful or self-hateful.
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>>7742926
Therapists and other clowns who offer fake sympathy deny people ffs and even hrt because they say everyone can be fine as ugly freaks assume people will feel better from flouncing into women's spaces and that iD changes will let them do what they want, even if they're horribly unpassing.
Bathroom laws sink that narrative now, anyone who doesn't pass gets in big trouble and that makes the doctors orders impossible to complete. They will see it's only possible to survive through passing and let people get ffs.
Banning ID change is nessecarily to make passing the only option. Otherwise old hons with lots of money will all change Id and flounce in without consequence .
Not having an ID will hurt but it will hurt people who pass far less. And combined with bathrooms will show those therapists that it's become all but impossible to be trans unless you. Pass very well, they'll see why people need surgery.
We have to give up most of the paths to social transition to keep passing an allowable thing. The GOP us saving our lives with these laws.
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>>7742926
>. If anything you should have learned by now that transpeople are hard-headed as fuck when it comes to their appearance. It's harder to convince them that they look good than anything else.
That's exactly why the doctors never take it seriously and just get a good laugh out off all the tears and crying. They think people are exaggerating their problems with their bodies and not let them get surgery.
Now the states passing extremely harsh laws that mostly hurt nonpassers is a way to fix that. It makes their suggestions impossible and drives home that being able to fix everything is the only way to survive
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>>7742926
>Some of us just want the ID change for that little bit of confidence
ffs would do that and fix you problems better than some peice of worthless paper you're letting derail your lives
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Is this all one gigantic samefag or one elaborate troll?
>>
Passing is the only reason any sane trans woman pursues a transition, but you have to consider that a lot of people won't know if they'll pass until they do transition (or attempt to). Sometimes the hons are just a byproduct of curiousity, of trying. I almost gave up and just an heroed because I was told on every thread I posted in to not bother trying, but now I pass pretty well. Devil's advocate, benefit of the doubt, blah-blah all of that nonsense.
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>>7743845
That's ridiculous. Every Transperson is aware they likely aren't the tiny % that passes perfectly at all times, if such a thing even exists. There are a ton of valid reasons for ID change not related to bathrooms. You're either delusional with self-loathing (and an odd loathing for therapists as a whole) or a cis person trying to harm Transpeople as a whole. Just fuck off with that. Thankfully not all states see it your way.
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come visit gay general
>>7738605
https://discord.gg/8fU2Tmn
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>>7743973
If we continue to focus our time and money on things that will make it go perfect, we'll eventually get there.
These laws finally killed the distraction of social transition aspects that would've done nothing for BDD, they finally killed that cancerous anti-body autonomy idea of body positivity by making its practice all but ilegal
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>>7743982
You've created a boogeyman that doesn't exist and is no hindrance to us even if it did, any transperson can self-med with enough effort and dedication which they'll need for passing anyway. The only thing these laws have done is give people who want to make our lives harder another inch, another justification.
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>>7743993
What does self med have to do with this? I want people to be able to get everything they could conceivably want for medical transition.
Lots of doctors would say you're fine and don't need surgery, keep it from you under some sick idea of body positivity. You saw how they and the gay anon think IDs make up for not getting that. Well taking away IDs and making nonpassing result in jail will finally make it clear to those controll freaks that social transition is impossible unless you pass perfectly.
These laws ensure that if they want us to socially transition, they will have to let us get all the tools inc surgical we need to fix our BDD. It makes passing and fixing BDD the priority.
I'd die anyways from BDD so the laws backing me up is great.
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>>7744021
>We should let them oppress us so that they'll realize they need to stop oppressing us!
Yeah sure anon. You go ahead and go live in those states and stay there. Good luck, you'll need it.
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>>7744054
This doctors won't be able to preach their hypocrisy as their patients get arrested
It's already impossible to change Licencse id in my state unless you get Srs and it's almost exclusively just hons who can get that.
Ending that Id change all together finally puts and end to those perverse incentives
Pass as you won't suffer much from the no ID. Won't suffer any more since it was impossible for all but hons to get and use to justify their creepy shit.
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>>7744054
And btw body positivity will die, that makes it worth it by my standards
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>>7744077
You're delusional. Seek mental help.
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>>7743005
>>7741994
Thank you, these are the types of questions I feel I should be asking her. I have an appointment to see her tomorrow so if this thread is still alive i'll make sure and post her response to some of the points made here.
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