WANTING TO TRANSITION IS JUST A FUCKING PLACEBO. JUST BECAUSE

you're just agp, doesn't mean you aren't trans

>>7714497
Just fap to your fetish and don't let it grow to the point you're getting breast implants and working as a tranny hooker to appease to your agp.

>>7714497
Exactly.

>>7714509
>getting breast implants and working as a tranny hooker to appease to your agp
and here we can see /tttt/'s fundamental misunderstanding of agp
hint: almost every tranny hooker is hsts, agps who try and go that route fail miserably 99 times out of 100

Enjoy transitioning at 40, hon :^)

>>7714516
>Implying I'm not right.

Most of them don't even take hormones or plan to anything done anywhere in their bodies other than the obvious fake tits.

They don't even have dysphoria they just want to be big breasted girls with dicks to fuck things and be fucked for money.

>>7714536
if you think that's true, you have never met any tranny hookers, and you have most likely never met any hsts trans women in general
the demographic and social profiles of hstses are identical to those of trans women who enter prostitution
it is, more than anything, what adolescent (yeah a lot of them are underage) trans girls who are kicked out of home (sometimes well before their transitions while still presenting as fem gay boys) do, and they aren't exactly enjoying it

>>7714497
skittles kill your sex drive anyway
you'll never be content

>>7714548
You really think the great majority of those disgusting hon tranny hookers are actually trans and not just some crazy fella that let his AGP go too far?

Like really? Look at OP and the countless other AGP anons that make similar threads all the time here and in other boards.
The only thing they focus is in the sex part. always.

>>7714497
You are AGP. It's a sexual fetish, not an actual condition that requires medical intervention. Just go enjoy being a faggot.

>>7714560
well, you also have a fundamental misunderstanding of the validity of transsexualism secondary to a*p, but that's beside the point
you seem to think prostitutes in general, and tranny prostitutes in particular, enjoy being prostitutes
they do not
being a tranny hooker is perhaps the most dangerous and painful life someone in the developed world could have, and nobody in it enjoys it
you get more agps in camming and certain parts of porn because those are things someone can actually do and enjoy and not wake up every day wanting to kill themselves, but even that's notably less common than it is in the general trans population, if nothing else because a lot of agps are too old or unpassable (and, even if they surface-level pass, not good enough at being girls to sell it on cam) to pull it off

>>7714497
Just because you're AGP does not mean that you're not trans, or that you won't do well as a transsexual. Is this really just a sex thing for you?

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>>7714497
>I will be ABSOLUTELY FINE not enjoying sex

Troll detected.
This is bait.

>>7714581
I could get oxytocin pills or something.

you're not trans, it's just autogynophilia. it's somewhat normal. transitioning will destroy your life. don't do it.

of course, expect to be told nothing but the opposite here.

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>>7714497
You're clearly not trans
Transitioning is not about enjoying sex
I mean really, fetishists get bashed all day here

>>7714509
ffs might be cute

>>7714603
>all it takes is a pill

believing the pharmaceutical jew

>>7714497
tfw my mother doesn't accept me because I'm not AGP

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>>7714497
Yeah, it's called AGP, and if you are some gross fetishist, you shouldn't transition. Women tend not to have fetishes in general, it's more of a male thing.

>>7714632
>I mean really, fetishists get bashed all day here
This. Like we literally spend hours of our lives on this shithole board theorizing about transness in relation to fetishism, we feel pretty strongly about this OP. Get treatment for it before it grows and consumers your life, last thing we need is another 50 year old who thinks his fap fantasies means he's really a delicate little girl.

>>7714632
>>7714862
>One of the two types of the transsexual typology aren't trans
This is like saying blue birds aren't birds. It's in the fucking name. If you want to use the term AGP then realize Blanchard coined it to describe one type of transness.

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>>7714917
Blanchard's way of applying AGP was fucked up. If you are a young trans lesbian who isn't some gross fetishist, you fit the AGP typology, but you have virtually nothing in common with a 40 year old who jerks off to the thought of wearing panties every day. The former has barely any experience existing as a man, while the latter is typically highly successful in the male role and has the sexual perversions and attitudes of a man.

If you genuinely have AGP (sexual arousal at the thought of being a woman even in mundane situations) you are NOT a woman, I don't care what St. Blanchard thinks. Fetishes are exceedingly rare in women. It disgusts me how older porn obsessed men have been able to hijack and appropriate transness from real trans girls. Imagine the outrage if rich older white men began claiming they were black or something, and began speaking for all black people.

>>7714970
If you disagree with Blanchard then don't use his terms, or speak of "two types".

>>7714862
>treatment for fetishism

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>>7714970
>some gross fetishist

your prejudices are showing, anon.

>>7715164
All kinks deserve to be shamed. Every single one of them.

>>7715164
Good. Fetishes are gross male behavior. More importantly, the vast majority are harmful to women.

>>7714987
There are two types, but they aren't Blanchard's two types.

>>7714497
Most don't transition for sex, if that's why you were going to transition then yes don't.

Transition is a medical procedure that shouldn't be treated as a fun sex thing to do. It is a serious treatment designed to treat symptoms of a serious medical condition and if you don't have the symptoms you shouldn't be on hrt.

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>>7715901
>Fetishes are gross male behavior

Women are pure beings free from sin.
>christfags actually believe this

>>7715947
I mean 95% of paraphilias are in men, so it makes sense.

And if you knew anything about Christfaggotry you'd know no one is free from sin.

he said a freaky weirdo lol
i almost spit my coffee

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>>7715971
>no one is free from sin

except mary.
and jesus.
and god.
and the pope.
and the saints.
and the apostles.
and joan of arc.
and mother theresa.
and donald trump.

do i need to go on?

and regarding paraphilias, men are more horny because testosterone so they are more likely to get caught masturbating on the subway, but that doesn't mean women don't ever do it or that mental illness doesn't affect women equally.

Also 76% of statistics are made up, so I question your 95% statistic since you didn't provide a source.

sounds like a perfectly normal and well-adjusted cis man tbhwyf

>>7714516

>agps who try and go that route fail miserably 99 times out of 100

Going to need a source on that part.

>>7714845

That's a joke, right?

>>7716050

>and the pope.
>and the saints.
>and the apostles.
>and joan of arc.
>and mother theresa.
>and donald trump.

None of that's true according to Catholic theology.

>>7714497
Older non transitioned AGP here. I never transitioned, but I did have to deal with dysphoria and confusion for a long time. I was 22 in 2006 and transgenderism was but a whisper back then, so I didn't have to deal with quite the same thing you dealt with. My bell rang at 30, I gave transition a thought and started reading about it more, than I got scared and stayed in the closet. After taking up weed smoking i'm a lot more at peace with being male, and I've come to realize how masc my skull and body is, and how i'm better off being a dude.

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>>7716283
>My bell rang at 30

I was actually reading it until that part then I started laughing.
Fuck you with your hon rick rolls.

>>7716296
Now I want to reread that hon pamphlet on bell ringing.

>>7716296

It seemed to have been ironically used unironically months ago by some anons. I wonder why they stopped.

>>7716296
>>7716304
>>7716317
I'm just paying tribute to the AGP hons who walked this road before me, plus it's a good metaphor. I honestly thought this was it I was at the end of my rope.

>>7716283
>tfw this is legit me except for the becoming at peace

>>7716240
>That's a joke, right?
might not be, my mum is really progressive and is upset i'm not more like my aap friends
she keeps trying to talk me into getting meme undercuts and being openly trans and proud

>>7717430

So she wants you to look like a dyke? That doesn't sound like a look an AGP would go for.

>>7717462
aap, not agp
i'm ftm

>22
lol you're not even close to true trans anyways so just off urself faggot

>>7715227
How are they a worse waste of time than any other hobby.

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>>7716240
Sadly it's not, she straight up said that I can't be trans because I am not basically what fits the AGP description, since I don't she just see me as an effemminate gay-ish boy.
Such is life.

>>7717464

I think you didn't mean to respond to my post.

>>7717858

But since when do AGPs dress like dykes? They may be mostly into women, but a feminine appearance is the goal for the vast majority because they don't find the butch look hot.

>>7717979
But I don't plan to reach an obnoxiously femmine appearance, both physically and with dressing/make up.
For example I don't give much shit how big breasts will be doing HRT, she said I NEEDED to.

>>7717979
>tfw agp, into men, and wear flannel

>>7717979
i did mean to, i was explaining how there are parents who think their trans kids are doing something wrong for not fitting the a*p profiles and instead transitioning into ordinary, gender-conforming without being ostentatious, heterosexual, cis-presenting people

>>7714516
>>7716240
I'm curious about this too, why can't an AGP be a hooker?

>>7718506
because the circumstances which result in someone becoming a tranny hooker are very, very different to the circumstances in which agps transition
tranny hookers are generally young transitioners (yes, many of them are underage -- yes, this includes the ones with giant implants) who were kicked out of the house either for being trans or for being flaming faggots, the distinction doesn't matter too much here, and sell their bodies to survive
if they have any similarities to agps, it's that they mimic femininity to an extreme degree only because they have to -- their *audience* has a lot of agps, given the massive overlap between agps and chasers, and they know who they're selling themselves to
being a tranny hooker is the saddest and most dangerous life anyone in the first world could have, and yet the 'first world' part means that a decent number of them in any developed country near less developed ones (e.g. united states, especially border areas) has a lot of usually undocumented immigrants -- being a street hooker who could get beaten to death at any given moment isn't that bad if where you're from you'd get beaten to death without even making money out of it
agps who live in the same circumstances as tranny hookers simply don't transition. this has been studied. agps transition in the first world and in the middle-class or higher. this is becoming slightly less true now that a wider range of people can transition, much as how the age distinction between hstses and agps is getting less pronounced, but it still holds true. on the other hand, hstses in extremely poor and desperate circumstances are *less* likely to repress than their wealthier counterparts -- it's easier to be an extremely, flamingly, blatantly gay man (which is hsts repression, as opposed to agp repression which is the more classic mode) if you're white and upper-middle-class than if you're hispanic and impoverished.

>Muh AGP
If people with AGP transition to fulfil their fetish and not because of dysphoria explain why they're still happy having transitioned after AGP is extinguished by the process (which it almost universally is)? Note that they are otherwise sexually active so "reduced libido" is not a logical answer.

The fact is that having or not having AGP does not impact whether you are dysphoric or not, whether you are trans or not. You can be trans or AGP or both or neither. There are people who are only AGP but not trans and they indeed shouldn't transition for their own sake.

>>7718564
>There are people who are only AGP but not trans and they indeed shouldn't transition for their own sake.
maybe they should if they are only going to turn trans later.

>>7718563
>if they have any similarities to agps, it's that they mimic femininity to an extreme degree only because they have to
Aren't younger transitioners more feminine? They are the ones who want to be seen as women, while AGPs are happy living as men but want to be female.

>>7718603
yes, but an argument i often hear from people who think tranny prostitutes must be agp is that they're feminine in a way that cis women aren't and that looks like a porny stereotype, so clearly they want to be that porny stereotype
in reality they no more want to be it than cis prostitutes do, they just know it sells
also, that belief says a hell of a lot about the agp trans women who espouse it that they don't realize

>>7718610
>they're feminine in a way that cis women
But this much is true for AGPs isn't it? How else could they survive as males?

>also, that belief says a hell of a lot about the agp trans women who espouse it that they don't realize
What?

>>7718610
Do AGP trans women really espouse it, or is it said about them?

>>7718633
>But this much is true for AGPs isn't it? How else could they survive as males?
agps *aren't* feminine inherently, they just wish they were and try their hardest to become so
an agp trans woman is about as likely to be innately feminine as your average cishet dude is -- it happens, but it's very rare, and trans women also have incentive to exaggerate their pre-transition femininity
>What?
>>7718637
answering these two at the same time because they're the same question
if an agp trans woman assumes that any non-agp woman, whether cis or hsts, acts like a porn stereotype by choice, she's completely misunderstanding the way women feel and act
women do not like being porn stereotypes, or even being a lot of the things men consider sexy in general, and only do so for men
(as a redpilled/angry virgin hsts trans man, this is one of the reasons i dislike women -- i saw it pretty in-depth from both the side of someone who was treated as an equal and someone who was treated as a bizarre creepy dude
and on the other end, it's the reason i've met a lot of hsts trans women who dislike men)

>>7718655
>agps *aren't* feminine inherently, they just wish they were and try their hardest to become so
Why do they wish they were? If they aren't, doesn't that really screw them over when they transition?

Why are they unhappy living as men, if they aren't socially dysphoric?

>or even being a lot of the things men consider sexy in general, and only do so for men
Why do you dislike that? Why do some AGPs not understand it?

>>7718681
>Why do they wish they were?
because that's their dysphoria, essentially
'i am not enough of a woman and i need to be more of one'
>If they aren't, doesn't that really screw them over when they transition?
oh, it does, it absolutely does
you can see a low-key version of it with /tttt/ anons staying in their basements because they *know* they can't be cute anime girls
don't pity them, pity the ones who leave
>Why are they unhappy living as men, if they aren't socially dysphoric?
agps not experiencing social dysphoria at all is a meme i accidentally created by trying to explain the difference in what dysphoria and passing even means to each group
it's kind of hard to translate each between them because the same terms describe such fundamentally different things
agps are in love with their own female selves and are unhappy that they aren't them, which inherently presents as physical dysphoria, but also varying degrees of social -- just not only is it usually less, but it often presents as more an euphoria at being women (and a subsequent dislike of being men) than a dysphoria at being men (and a subsequent like of being women)
...if that makes any sense. dysphoria and disliking something are not the same.
>Why do you dislike that?
because men and women can never be truly sexually compatible
>Why do some AGPs not understand it?
because they've always been men, and usually men who are particularly into sexualized presentations of women (kind of a requirement to sexualize yourself as a woman), and when they become women they assume other women are much, much more like them than they actually are

>>7718681
>>7718699
>Why do they wish they were? If they aren't, doesn't that really screw them over when they transition?
Generally speaking they desire to have a female body. Society tells you that people with female bodies ought act *this way*. They conform. It doesn't help that the dysphoria-unrelated fetish side of the whole thing often focuses on conforming to stereotypical femininity. It is hardly a long term explanation though since the fetishistic side cannot survive HRT and socially transitioning for long.

>>7718655
>redpilled
Oh, so that's why you uncritically repeat things you've read because they fit your world view despite the source material being full of holes and leaps of logic.

>>7718699
>>7718699
>oh, it does, it absolutely does
>you can see a low-key version of it with /tttt/ anons staying in their basements because they *know* they can't be cute anime girls
>don't pity them, pity the ones who leave
What's the answer for them then?

Is the problem that they act like men instead of women, or that they act like a man's idea of a woman instead of a woman?

>agps are in love with their own female selves and are unhappy that they aren't them, which inherently presents as physical dysphoria, but also varying degrees of social -- just not only is it usually less, but it often presents as more an euphoria at being women (and a subsequent dislike of being men) than a dysphoria at being men (and a subsequent like of being women)
That explains a lot. So for AGPs, both social and physical dysphoria are only consequences of not being female?

>because men and women can never be truly sexually compatible
Are AGPs innately more compatible with men than women, and AAPs more compatible with women than men?

>and usually men who are particularly into sexualized presentations of women (kind of a requirement to sexualize yourself as a woman),
Is that a cause or a consequence of being AGP?

>>7718563
Being a white canadian AGP Reading about poor latino HSTSs makes me wonder about poor latino AGPs. Do they crossdress in private and hope the homies don't find out? Do they have an HSTS latina gf on the down low?

>>7718731
Disclaimer: I'm "AGP".

>What's the answer for them then?
I know plenty of AGPs who transitioned and went on to be happy. You're listening to a self-proclaimed "redpiller".

>Is the problem that they act like men instead of women, or that they act like a man's idea of a woman instead of a woman?
Both are only actually problems in the sense that people buy into a simplistic "this sort of body means you have to behave in this fashion" ideology. AGPs are generally not naturally "feminine", but since dysphoria stems from a neurological source the societal side of things is an artificial problem. Physically transitioning is the key treatment. Were society to be more accepting of people with female bodies not acting like stereotypical women the social side would be inconsequential.

>That explains a lot. So for AGPs, both social and physical dysphoria are only consequences of not being female?
AGPs being "in love with their female selves" is just a guess by Ray Blanchard which he went on to try and peddle as a fact. His theory of Erotic Target Location Errors states that AGPs are just straight men who, due to a disorder, wish to become what they're attracted to because their attraction is misdirected toward themselves. What is his proof for this grand proclamation? That there are people who both want to be amputeed and are attracted to amputees, and a few other examples where people both want to modify their body in a certain way and are attracted to people modified in that way. Of course no concrete relation between the different groups has ever been shown. Luckily I've discussed ETLEs only recently so I can refer you to these posts:

>>7713871
>>7713513
>>7714047
>>7714068
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erotic_target_location_error


>Is that a cause or a consequence of being AGP?
I've had AGP-like fantasies when I was 4 years old. Make of that what you will.

>>7718788
>I know plenty of AGPs who transitioned and went on to be happy. You're listening to a self-proclaimed "redpiller".
Do they pass well?

>AGPs are generally not naturally "feminine", but since dysphoria stems from a neurological source the societal side of things is an artificial problem. Physically transitioning is the key treatment.
Explain this anon, who is AGP and wants to be able to act like a woman more than have a female body >>7718759

>I've had AGP-like fantasies when I was 4 years old. Make of that what you will.
What were your early AGP fantasies? Boys and girls can get ideas of what each gender should be like at an early age, so applying the "wrong" one to themselves isn't out of the question.

22 is too late anyways

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>>7718730
kek, that's a good one
i only call myself redpilled ironically though, i was just arguing against a bunch of them last night
>>7718731
>What's the answer for them then?
dpeends on the individual
the thing about transition as a treatment is that it's so successful even people who could be called 'treatment failures' by objective measures routinely turn out well, see pic related
>Is the problem that they act like men instead of women, or that they act like a man's idea of a woman instead of a woman?
both depending on the individual
>That explains a lot. So for AGPs, both social and physical dysphoria are only consequences of not being female?
yes, though i suspect the way it is worded could easily get a snarky 'you mean like all mtf transsexualism?' as a response
>Are AGPs innately more compatible with men than women, and AAPs more compatible with women than men?
yes, which is a bit of a problem given the whole gay thing
in happier news, chasing is so common amongst a*ps that a lot end up in stable relationships with other trans people of their own type
>Is that a cause or a consequence of being AGP?
if only we knew
>>7718782
yes and sometimes yes

>>7718826
>Do they pass well?
Yes, and that is a big part of why I think they did well. Not passing as someone whose dysphoria is primarily physical has to be awful.

>Explain this anon, who is AGP and wants to be able to act like a woman more than have a female body
Apparently they made a mistake in that post haha, but I've heard of others like them so your question is valid anyhow. I've never met an AGP who didn't want a woman's body but I've met some who claimed the social role and being accepted as women is far more important to them. I think that's primarily the influence of society. "I feel like a woman. Society says women are like THIS. Ergo I must be like THIS to be a woman!". A quest for validaiton.

>What were your early AGP fantasies? Boys and girls can get ideas of what each gender should be like at an early age, so applying the "wrong" one to themselves isn't out of the question.
Boys being turned into girls, sometimes unwillingly. For many, many years I did not understand why I had these fantasies. They were totally bizarre to me even as a child but I still obsessed over them.

>>7718863
>Literally quoting Silly Ol Me
Have you noticed how, in that article, she spent 95% of it calling her "friend" a worthless shitter who she is better than despite it having nothing to do with the subject? How can you pretend she's not hateful?

I like you at times, Anon, but you continually frustrate me with your insistence on blindly accepting one side of the narrative. You even call yourself Blanchardian now, whereas previously you had reservations about much of his stuff. As I'm pretty sure you know who I am at this point (as well as I know who you are) you know that same argument can't be leveraged against me since I don't buy into the uncritical feminine essence drivel pushed by Moser etc.

Why do you refuse to accept that we just don't have enough information to present any of these ideas as facts at this point? I think doing so is irresponsible, and that presenting them as educated guesses is more proper.

>>7718898
>As I'm pretty sure you know who I am at this point (as well as I know who you are)
...this is the bit that's interested me
i might kind of recognize you on /tttt/ specifically, but no, i have no idea who you are outside the board
who do you think i am?

heh

>>7718908
also i guess i only recognize you when you're specifically referring to me
so no, i don't really know who you are

>>7718863
>the thing about transition as a treatment is that it's so successful even people who could be called 'treatment failures' by objective measures routinely turn out well, see pic related
What are the factors that should decide it? How miserable living as a man is? How well they'll pass? How they handle the dysphoria? Other things?

>both depending on the individual
Can you expand on that?

If they desire to act like a woman (their mental image of one), then wouldn't they have the same kind of gender non-conformity and social dysphoria as HSTS trans people?

>yes, though i suspect the way it is worded could easily get a snarky 'you mean like all mtf transsexualism?' as a response
I meant rather than being direct symptoms of anything, both dysphorias are just consequences of something else, being unable to get the euphoria of being the opposite sex.

In contrast to HSTS trans people being incompatible with the natal sex.

>yes, which is a bit of a problem given the whole gay thing
>in happier news, chasing is so common amongst a*ps that a lot end up in stable relationships with other trans people of their own type
Is an A*P a better match for another A*P or for a member of their natal sex?

>>7718908
You're that FTM that spent quite a while on /agpg/ back on the day, then pushed a big thread on your revised typology. You post once in a while. I can tell that it is you because of what you're saying, because you type in low caps, and because of some terms you always throw around.

You semi-recognize me as that AGP who always fights you over Blanchard making grand leaps of logic from "A tends to show up alongside B" to "A causes B", when there is no concrete proof for that over "B causes A" or "C causes A and B" or a variety of other possibilities.

>>7718871
>Yes, and that is a big part of why I think they did well. Not passing as someone whose dysphoria is primarily physical has to be awful.
Surely passing would be more important to someone with primarily social dysphoria? The important thing to someone with physical dysphoria being whether or not their body meets their internal need for it to be feminine?

>I've never met an AGP who didn't want a woman's body but I've met some who claimed the social role and being accepted as women is far more important to them. I think that's primarily the influence of society. "I feel like a woman. Society says women are like THIS. Ergo I must be like THIS to be a woman!". A quest for validaiton.
But why would they be after that validation?

>Boys being turned into girls, sometimes unwillingly.
The unwilling part seems really common for AGP fantasies. Any idea why that it? Willing would seem just as good.

>>7714509
>Breast implants
>not temporary ringers solution injections

>>7719011
>Surely passing would be more important to someone with primarily social dysphoria? The important thing to someone with physical dysphoria being whether or not their body meets their internal need for it to be feminine?
If you look like a woman to yourself you probably also look like a woman to others, since people tend to be their own worst critics when it comes to these things.

>But why would they be after that validation?
Humans, by and large, seek to be validated. If you strongly feel that you are an X and are lead to believe that all Xs do Y then you will feel compelled to do Y.

>The unwilling part seems really common for AGP fantasies. Any idea why that it? Willing would seem just as good.
I can't speak for everyone but at least on my part it feels like a way to deal with cognitive dissonance. When I had these fantasies I thought of myself as a boy, and knew boys should never want to be girls or do girly things. By making the fantasies forced it removed the guilt. When the fantasies turned sexual, at around 12, I distinctly remember thinking "I'm a straight guy because I don't actually want any of this - my kink is to be forced, and since I'm forced this is proof I don't want it". It took me many, many years to seriously consider whether I was trans. I didn't act in what one would consider a stereotypically feminine way at any point. The strange fantasies and inexplicable depression from puberty onwards seem like obvious red flags in retrospect.

Is this true or false?
>>7719123
>Transition for me is non sexual. For agps is all sexual.

>>7719150
You can have AGP, gender dysphoria, both or neither. People generally transition because they experience gender dysphoria, AGP or not. There is evidence for AGPs transitioning for non-sexual reasons. Medically and socially transitioning for a lengthy period of time usually makes one cease to be AGP, yet the overwhelming majority of ex-AGPs are still happier after they've transitioned and keep on living as women. If their motivation was sexual this would not be the case. Folks like Blanchard try to attribute this to AGPs experiencing a "romantic, non-sexual" love for their female self, with HRT quenching true sexual desire by lowering one's libido. While it is true that HRT lowers one's libido what is also true is that transwomen are still otherwise generally sexually active, so this is not a plausible explanation even if we disregard the absurdity of the borderline schizophrenic motives Blanchard ascribes to (ex)autogynephiles.

I will say, though, that there are some people who are AGP and not dysphoric, and that sometimes these people mistakenly transition because they think they might be trans. Up until recently I have only ever ran into the dysphoric trans type but last week I ran into two individuals who transitioned for sexual reasons, one of whom is now regretting it because they no longer experience AGP as a result. I think this is actually quite telling since the overwhelming majority of the dysphoric types I've talked to actually WANT AGP to dissipate, and are afraid it won't.

Does that answer your question?

>>7719218
>Medically and socially transitioning for a lengthy period of time usually makes one cease to be AGP, yet the overwhelming majority of ex-AGPs are still happier after they've transitioned and keep on living as women.
Doesn't this disprove >>7718863 's view that AGP dysphoria is a symptom of AGP?

>I think this is actually quite telling since the overwhelming majority of the dysphoric types I've talked to actually WANT AGP to dissipate, and are afraid it won't.
What is it telling? Are there two different kinds of AGP then, a dysphoric kind that people transition to get rid of and a non-dysphoric kind that leaves a transitioner disappointed to lose it?

If it's the same kind, then why do some rid of it and some want to keep it?

>>7719277
>Doesn't this disprove >>7718863 's view that AGP dysphoria is a symptom of AGP?
I think so, and have argued as much many times. That anon believes the Blanchardian narrative of ETLEs; of sexual desire begetting physical dysphoria. Thus his retort to that is the Blanchardian "romantic love" one I've listed. I do not buy it for all of the reasons I've listed and then some.

>What is it telling? Are there two different kinds of AGP then, a dysphoric kind that people transition to get rid of and a non-dysphoric kind that leaves a transitioner disappointed to lose it?
Yes, but I don't think the types are actually clear cut. I could imagine someone in-between, though I have yet to run into such a person.

>>7719277
nah, severely dysphoric AGP here, with no desire to get rid of it. in fact i wish it hadn't lessened with the lessened sex drive, as it's the only kind of arousal i have. no normal sexuality has arisen in its place.
why would i want to get rid of something that's given me such intense arousal in the past and would seemingly become even better as a transition progressed? i'm not that spooked

>>7719323
Girls still have sex drives, so I don't buy the romantic love line. Which leave a big hole in ETLEs.

>Yes, but I don't think the types are actually clear cut.
So a matter of degrees? Would it be the same for wanting to get rid of it or not?

>>7719352
I suppose the reason to get rid of it would be to stop the dysphoria without needing to transition. If you could have just lost the AGP instead of transitioning and having the AGP lesson, would you?

>no normal sexuality has arisen in its place.
Now what does this mean? It doesn't fit Blanchard's romantic love.

>>7719367
What exactly causes AGP (assuming it's real) to lead to dysphoria?

>>7719367
>So a matter of degrees? Would it be the same for wanting to get rid of it or not?
This is highly speculative so don't take what I'm about to say as fact but in my experience the vast majority of AGPs are the dysphoric "I want it to go away" types, a small but notable minority is the dysphoria-free cis guy type, and the rest wildly vary with each individual having slightly different levels of physical dysphoria and desire to keep or be rid of AGP. I'm basing this on all of the individuals I've interacted with and read about - and they are many - but I obviously can't proclaim this to be an indisputable fact because I haven't shown this to be true via rigorous research.

>>7719367
>I suppose the reason to get rid of it would be to stop the dysphoria without needing to transition.
Not that person but a lot of us feel that we are women and being aroused by such thoughts feels invalidating and in conflict with our identity. With that said some people have outright said what you just suggested - that if they could just have it go away and live as cis men they would.

>>7714497
>Not wanting to be a girl to please your agp fetish.
>Not circling your whole life to have sex to reproduce
You fail at being lgbt and pol amazing.

I wouldn't listen to a damn thing anyone here says one way or another. Everyone here is either crazy or crazy and believes they are less crazy because AGP and overthought self-diagnosed reasons.

It won't make you pass more or less. It won't relieve your dysphoria. It won't help you get answers. This board is made by trash for trash from trash.

Everything is way more complicated and yet still more simple in many ways than any crazy batshit self-hating tranny on here can explain: no amount of glossing over it all with bizarre rationales and esoteric, delusional theories will ever make the psychology make sense. It's 100% Freudian projections to protect their ego. People need to go outside and stop hug boxing. The hug box isn't just positive coddling, it is also repetitive stress re-enactments. Just repeat the mantras of ridicule like always to make everyone feel better knowing that the next trans piece of dogshit also hates everyone else and thinks they're less trans: we can all feel superior together, just read from the holy book of Blanchard and get a complex about it all.

Go see a therapist. Go the fuck outside. Grow up.

>>7719552
>Don't ask questions
>Don't think
>Trust your priest

>>7714497
Sounds like you're desperately trying to convince yourself that's true. Otherwise why would you yell at a anonymous board in all caps

>>7719552
>everyone here is crazy but me

Anon...

File: 1483414000220.png (200KB, 500x500px) Image search: [Google]

200KB, 500x500px

>>7719560
>This
It sounds like you want to make yourself believe that. [spoiler]Don't worry I do the same~[/spoiler]

This thread is pathetic, and I'm not talking only about OP.

>>7719552
You mention placebos, but I don't see how getting the opinions from the stares of 15 people in a bar is worth something.

>>7714518

I can only safely claim I HATE one thing, and it's that fucking meme right there. I love reading it though. Renews my fire and reminds me why I will deny being trans eternally. Because transpeople are absolutely the shittiest personal agenda pushing people on the planet. I never want to be acknowledged as that.

>>7719367
yes, but i don't accept the assumption that the dysphoria was wholly a result of agp, that if the agp was not there the dysphoria would not have either.

it means that agp was not replaced by hetero or homosexuality

>>7721739
>but i don't accept the assumption that the dysphoria was wholly a result of agp
Why do you think the dysphoria was there separately?

>it means that agp was not replaced by hetero or homosexuality
But why would that happen? It's as if the AGP took the place of your sexuality, but unlike sexuality can just fade away.

>>7722035
i'm only rejecting your claim that it wasn't, burden of proof is not on me

why? who knows

>>7722048
It was just a guess. I just want to understand how AGP works.

>>7722067
i don't know m8. my pet theory is that agp is a manifestation of dysphoria in neurotic introverts

>>7722178
That's uncomfortably believable. It still makes it odd that a normal sexuality wouldn't appear in place of the AGP.

>>7722225
why though? agp is basically a sexuality in itself. when men get old and low test their heterosexuality isn't magically replaced by something else

>>7722280
But why would dysphoria manifest as a sexuality itself? Nothing else literally replaces normal sexual orientations. Other manifestations of dysphoria are replaced by normal life when the dysphoria fades, aren't they?

>>7722178
I'm a neurotic introvert AGP, especially when I was a teenager. It's strongly connected to nerdy introverts except for those masc amazon AGPs like Caitlyn Jenner and Kristin Beck. Did introverted failed male boomer and gen X AGPs just suffer in silence, or were they rare in the past? Why the fuck Blanchard and his fellow blanchardites just sat on their laurels and never dove into the clusterfuck that is gen y/z AGP I'll never know.

>>7724543
>Why the fuck Blanchard and his fellow blanchardites just sat on their laurels and never dove into the clusterfuck that is gen y/z AGP I'll never know
probably because blanchard was public enemy number 1 of the trans community by then
>tfw conway-james-mccloskey changed the timeline enough to stop the publication of 200 papers on young a*p

>>7724549
wish trannies weren't so sensitive and let him do a follow up

>>7724549
>>7724603
Blanchard had 10 years of being a sexology celebrity. Fuck that guy desu.

>>7724603
there are still typology-related studies published on a very regular basis, revealing new and interesting things, but not many of them are the studies much of this board truly wants -- ones on younger agps (and aaps, please publish some goddamn studies on aaps) comparing them to hstses and the older members of their own category
i can hazard a guess on what they'll look like, but nobody knows for sure

>>7724634
>i can hazard a guess on what they'll look like
please do

>WPATH literally no-platformed Zucker
>People keep insisting the scientific community did not reject Blanchard

>>7724549
>>7724603
Yes that's true goddamn AGP hon activists. I've had to live on Blanchards wild ride for most of my life and I want answers, not just "you don't exist" or "your trans". Yes i'm probably "trans" but surely in a different way than an androphilic early transitioner.

>>7724656
WPATH rejected Blanchard before the SJW trans craze, so it lends some credibility to the idea that they found his theories wrong and insulting. Granted the tranny activists at the time were loud, the world was rapidly changing and maybe a lot of trans researchers were the progressive sort and wanted to be on the right side of history.

>>7719218
>Up until recently I have only ever ran into the dysphoric trans type but last week I ran into two individuals who transitioned for sexual reasons, one of whom is now regretting it because they no longer experience AGP as a result.
why is the other not regretting it, does she still have agp?

>>7722377
well in a way homosexuality replaces heterosexuality, asexuality replaces either. what is a "normal" sexual orientation itself.

>Other manifestations of dysphoria are replaced by normal life when the dysphoria fades, aren't they?
such as?

what does HST mean

>>7725603
A homosexual person who transitions to trick straight people.

>>7725603
hsts means 'homosexual transsexual' and is essentially the 'classic' presentation of transsexualism -- very gender-non-conforming from a young age, primarily attracted to the opposite gender/same sex, transitions young, passes well, often goes stealth, generally has a better post-transition life by objective measures, etc
in blanchard's typology, which i strongly suggest everyone on this board read regardless of whether they expect to agree with it or not, the categories are hsts and agp

>>7725603
"Homosexual Transsexual", meaning attracted to your natal sex.

It's considered one of two kinds of transsexuality, along with AGP/AAP.

Basically HST (or HSTS) are neurologically similar to gay people, but so much that they can't function as their natal sex. So they get inaccurately called "trutrans" although their dysphoria is typically more social than to do with their body.

They are very gender non-conforming as children, which leads to transitioning earlier.

>>7725621
>generally has a better post-transition life by objective measures,
because of passing better and transitioning young?

>>7725636
well yeah, that's clearly a factor
but you get a lot of yung hon types on this board who are crippled by the conviction they can never be women even though objectively they aren't truly hons, and almost all of the ones i've been able to talk to long enough to tell either way are agp (the only one who i think might be hsts at all is...confusing)

>>7725622
>>7725621

thanks

>>7725646
why are they convicted they can't be women? are /mtfg/ mostly hsts or agp?

>(the only one who i think might be hsts at all is...confusing)
why can't you tell?

>>7725676
>why are they convicted they can't be women?
generally it's a perfect storm of
>bdd from assuming women look like anime girls
>neither behaving innately like girls/women their age or having any idea how to learn how to do so, and feeling like a weird awkward guy around girls as a result despite passing well
>social isolation in general
>expecting transition to fix more problems than it actually does
#1, #2, and #4 are all strongly associated with agp, and #3 isn't attached to a type as is but is a common trait amongst people who go on 4chan in general (who are majority male, and so the trans women who go here are majority agp as a result)
>are /mtfg/ mostly hsts or agp?
i don't go on /mtfg/, though robin seems like a nice person
>why can't you tell?
she's roughly a kinsey 4 (i'm not as strict on sexual orientation as blanchard is and have met plenty of bisexual hsts mtfs, but they're a minority and get moreso as they get more gynephilic) and has some kinks strongly associated with agp, but transitioned very young (15), was gnc pre-transition, and has the hsts pattern of 'if i'm not accepted 100% of the time as cis female then i may as well just be a feminine gay man' social dysphoria

>>7725695
regarding that last point, i simplified a lot of the reasons why i'm confused
those are the more obvious ones, other things are more subtle
ultimately, she pings to me 100% as female in behaviour, which is typical for hsts mtfs but notably uncommon for agp ones even when they transitioned relatively young and assimilated -- but there's reasonable doubt

>>7725695
>>neither behaving innately like girls/women their age or having any idea how to learn how to do so, and feeling like a weird awkward guy around girls as a result despite passing well
but then why do they often not fit in as men either? just not as badly as hsts mtfs.

>>7725704
maybe she's an uncommon agp? they can transition young and be gnc.

otoh women can have kinks so maybe she's hsts and just happens to be bi and have agp kinks.

what are the kinks associated with hsts and agp?

>>7725735
>but then why do they often not fit in as men either? just not as badly as hsts mtfs.
this is another case of how people use words in entirely different ways that cause misunderstandings
hstses don't act like normative men in that they act like women, agps don't act like normative men in that they're 4chan nerds (and the vast majority of people on this site, as mentioned, are male -- being a channer is a very masculine behaviour, odd as that phrase sounds)
>what are the kinks associated with hsts and agp?
hsts trans women have roughly the same kink profile as women as a whole
agp trans women have their own kink profile that has some overlap with the female one, such as submission and masochism (25% of men who die performing autoerotic asphyxiation are found crossdressed), but are also into transformation that isn't specifically gender-related, forced [x] that isn't specifically gender-related, and things involving other trans women (either straight up through chasing or through dickgirls, traps, futa, etc)

>>7725770
>agps don't act like normative men in that they're 4chan nerds (and the vast majority of people on this site, as mentioned, are male -- being a channer is a very masculine behaviour, odd as that phrase sounds)
it's masculine in that women go on reddit and tumblr instead?

that obviously makes them misfits among women, but it makes them misfits among men too. why do they have this behavior that doesn't fit in anywhere normal?

>agp trans women have their own kink profile that has some overlap with the female one
what were the kinks that made you confused between agp and hsts?

>>7725603
A Blanchardian meme which you can use as a way to easily filter posts made by people who hate you.

>>7725621
>often goes stealth

whats this mean

like on hrt n shit and not like making it known and when passes is just like ye cool

>>7725814
read Becoming What We Love by Anne Lawrence.

>>7724634
What do you think the studies on younger A*Ps would show?

>>7714497
>transitioning just for sexual reasons
Anon you're just a fetishist, go rent a trap hooker and be done with it.

>>7735706
If you're implying OP is a non-dysphoric AGP, having sex with a trap wouldn't sate her desire to be female.

>>7731087
Lawrence is a hack.

>>7737716
Please explain?

>>7714970
>If you are a young trans lesbian who isn't some gross fetishist, you fit the AGP typology, but you have virtually nothing in common with a 40 year old who jerks off to the thought of wearing panties every day.
No, you have exactly one thing different between you, the amount of time you spent before transitioning.

>If you genuinely have AGP (sexual arousal at the thought of being a woman even in mundane situations) you are NOT a woman,
Probably half of trans women aren't women?

>>7741970
>Probably half of trans women aren't women?
much more than half of trans women are agp
the irony of the whole thing is that anti-blanchardians tend to end up being the ones arguing agp trans women are neither trans nor women
my introduction to blanchard's work was, as it happend, through the sections on the websites of lynn conway and andrea james -- it intrigues me in retrospect how james in particular, despite proposing transsexualism be demedicalized and transition be as accessible as it is in some parts of the us/canada today, insisted that pretty much every agp blanchardian was just some sort of bizarre non-trans fetishist attaching herself to blanchard for legitimacy

>>7714497
You're not trans then. Congrats.