More than two genders?

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Gender refers to a binary opposition, i.e., the principle of polarity. So, even the so-called "non-binaries persons" works in between that polarity.

This, of course, doesn't invalidate trans people.

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>>7654575
Here is the first result I wound up with via Google, it doesn't seem like you tried very hard:

>Gender identities which have historically fallen under the label 'third gender' include Hijra in India, Two-Spirit in many Native American cultures, and Fa'afafine in Samoa.

Countries with a Third Legal Gender
Nepal "Other" can be chosen on passport.
India "Hijra" which means "leaving one's tribe" because they would adopt their next generation after the boys were kicked out. MtF Trannies, pretty much.
Pakistan Same as above.
Bangladesh Same as above.
Germany "Indeterminate" for Intersex babies.
New Zealand Officially identified as “Gender diverse”
Australia You can be gendered in documentation as "non-specific"


Do you struggle when writing reports in your middle school classes too?

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Doctors: "Doctor" is a vague term. Physicians and General Practitioners, in general, do not have an opinion. They feel it is outwith their remit without specialist training.

Psychologists: The vast majority of psychologists also feel out of their depth with the gender nonconforming. The majority who don't feel out their depth, still think in terms of a gender binary most of their term. Whoever created this image isn't aware of professional consensus here.

Scientists: Another vague term, but it's clear this relates to clinical research. Also, I could show you studies that show only a minority of studies are sound in their methodology, reproducible, and at all valid. The number of studies into gender, usually championed within more soft-leaning sciences, are oftentimes the projects of people absolutely absorbed in cultural marxist and critical theory thinking.

Sexologists: Like Lindsey Doe? A bunch of hacks where their specialization is based on soft science, even if they have more general medical training. They're fucking weirdos.

Anthropologists: I think there is a difference between say, India recognising (cis) Males, (cis) Females, and Hijra, or the Native Americans/First Nation recongizing Two-Spirit, and someone who thinks there is such a thing as Cloudgender.
The thing is a lot of these societies the Anthropologists say have more than two genders, are societies that will not acknowledge that AMABs can be indistinguishable from cis women, or AFABs indistinguishable from cis men. They clearly cannot be. So someone who would be considered a non-binary transgender person in our society, would be assigned a third gender because duhh, those people don't have the right parts to take on the traditional roles of cis men or women.

Having said all of this, pic related.

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>>7654654
whoops wrong pic.
this one sums up my opinion on nonbinary genders.
at the end of the day, a lot of the semantics is splitting hairs though and I think it's needless.
it seems that further division other than maybe half a dozen terms maximum, only has the effect of dividing people more and giving people a reason to get all indignant and offended.

>>7654575
There are only 2 genders.
>Doctors
There are rare developmental errors that malform genitalia.
>Psychologists
There are people who pretend to be genders they're not.
>Scientists
There are literal 0 studies on this but let's pretend there are some for our shitty point.
>Sexologists
Doesn't even need a response, the field is just mostly unscientific conjecture.
>Anthropologists
There are tens of culture with different concepts for homosexuals and transgenders. The whole 2 spirit and shit thing is from barbaric cultures who think transgenders aren't male or female.

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>>7654624
>it doesn't seem like you tried very hard

I came up with the same results you did. I'm simply just trying to get other people's opinions on what they think or know as a non-binary gender. I don't identify as part of the LGBT community or keep up with it, so it's hard for me to understand why someone would want to be a third gender. (Assuming want is the right word).

>Hijra in India
What's the difference between this and a transvestite or transgender?
In my understanding (admitting to being somewhat close minded), the gender of a person who dresses and acts like the opposite sex, but hasn't had a surgery to fully transition is what ever gender they are portraying. So the Hijra in India would be considered women because that's what they're dressing as, or they are men who just like dressing as women.
Burrnesha, or sworn virgins is a definition I found pretty interesting and confusing. In Albania, the Burrnesha are people assigned female at birth who have a masculine gender expression and role, and were traditionally considered neither female nor male. This tradition goes back to at least the 1400s, and is still practiced. This definition makes me think of the female version of the Hijra. Women who choose to identify as men in every way except sexual because they choose to remain virgins.
>Do you struggle when writing reports in your middle school classes too?

Do you struggle with manners in your elementary school? This may be an anonymous posting but there's no need to be rude.

>>7654575
>>7654984
You are both idiots.

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>>7655047

>>7655047
Triggered AF

>>7655047
Strange how you neglected to call me ( >>7654654 >>7654666 ) an idiot.

>>7655098
Probably tl;dr for >7655047

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I see it like this:

Sex is what you biologically are.

Gender is what you feel inside.

There's a whole assortment of genders because people are unique and don't typically fit the social models of "male" and "female". Even before tumblr let loose the hounds of identity, we had things like "tomboy", "femboy" and the native american "third gender" for people who just didn't fit stereotypical gender roles.

And I'm not even tumblr, because misgendering someone who identifies as an eldritch horror (which I do) and daring to refer to Ia'r as a he is not some big world ending crime, it's just someone referring to your sex, not your inner self they have no knowledge of.

>>7655190
It almost seems impossible not to offend someone these days. Sex is almost a medical defining factor where as gender is almost like picking which clique you want to be in. It seems like the option would be just to ask each person you come across what they personally identify as and not try to group people together.

>>7655190
>misgendering someone who identifies as an eldritch horror (which I do)
chuckled
as my pic here >>7654666 outlines, it's still my belief that any non-binary genders only hold relevance as a "gender" if each defining feature of that gender sits on a continuum between the gender binaries, and not in some other la-la land.
for example you can't define your gender as having an affinity for Yttrium, because Yttrium has nothing to do with biological sex, gender roles, or gender expression in either males or females.

>>7654984

>errors that malform genetalia
Or that cause the wrong genetalia to occur with the wrong chromosomes, among other things. Arguably, these conditions could be considered genders/sexes in their own right.

>>7654666
>but it is also mistaken of trans people to believe that their gender identity can likewise take sole precedence

Uh, wait. Why is this mistaken?

Unless you want a society where the restroom signs really look like this horror show: >>7655190 then you actually need to choose SOMETHING to take precedence, be it chromosomes, phenotype or neurology.

I'm going to pick the last thing, because it affects my ability to relate to others, my ability to socialize, function, be happy in society. I rank those things as taking precedence over my genitals or Things That No One Ever Will Ever See So What Is The Fucking Relevance Anyway (read: sex chromosomes).

The only times my phenotype are going to become relevant are between myself and a sexual partner, and myself and a doctor. That's it. And those things are private. For the rest of my existence as a social being, I see no reason for my innate sense of identity not to be the sole deciding factor of what my gender is.

There may be neurological differences between myself and a "real"/"cis" person who shares my gender identity, that's true. But as sexual dimorphism in general falls within a range for both sexes, you probably can't point to any one thing about me that's different where I couldn't point to a cis person who is the same way.

I just personally have no interest in abolishing traditional gender. I think it serves an important evolutionary purpose for men to be men and women to be women, and I just want to pick the one gender that I can manage to fit into the best and try my best to suit that role as an otherwise admittedly defective exception to the rule. "Non-binary" is virtually all cancer, and mostly just attention-seeking faggotry. Most people just need to pick the side they can manage to fit best.

>>7655190
>There's a whole assortment of genders

The above anon otherwise has it right, there's basically just a range between two binary points.

>>7655745
>then you actually need to choose SOMETHING to take precedence, be it chromosomes, phenotype or neurology.

yes. you choose what is most relevant to social situations in public with strangers, because it's the courteous thing to do.

that's my opinion anyway, since the cashier at starbucks can't see your neurology when they're trying to address you.

i agree that biological essentialism (focusing on chromosomes) doesn't make much sense as they can't be seen, but likewise your neurology can't be seen. i'm a piss where you pass advocate.

i don't understand why you used that specific quote of mine to pick this argument though, as it wasn't made to support the use of abominable restroom signs like that at all.
i notice the sign has A FUCKING BABY on it, as gender expression? like stefonknee? fuck that shit. that's fucking wrong.

>I just personally have no interest in abolishing traditional gender. I think it serves an important evolutionary purpose for men to be men and women to be women, and I just want to pick the one gender that I can manage to fit into the best and try my best to suit that role as an otherwise admittedly defective exception to the rule.

I agree.

>>7655745
>"Non-binary" is virtually all cancer, and mostly just attention-seeking faggotry. Most people just need to pick the side they can manage to fit best.

Like you said here

>The only times my phenotype are going to become relevant are between myself and a sexual partner, and myself and a doctor.

whilst i disagree with you there because i think phenotype is important even with strangers who can't necessarily see your neurology unless you do your best to pass... that's besides the point.

when it comes to nonbinary gender identity, it's my belief that people who think they're nonbinary should also acknowledge that it's unreasonable to expect the general public to accommodate their nonbinary identity, but if they want to do their own thing with their partners, family and friends as far as that goes, they can knock themselves out.

>"Non-binary" is virtually all cancer

I also think you missed an important point in my picture. i consider anyone who isn't binary AND cis, to be nonbinary. that's where the whole

>it is also mistaken of trans people to believe that their gender identity can likewise take sole precedence

point comes from.

when your gender identity is divergent from your physiology, that isn't in fitting with the gender binary at all. that doesn't mean you have to adopt a nonbinary gender, you either stay closeted in "boymode/girlmode" [delete as appropriate] or you are able to pass as your target sex, so to all intents and purposes sure, you fit the binary in the public eye, and me considering you nonbinary is a mere technicality.

it's also a cultural thing. as mentioned earlier, South Asia's Hijra testify to entire cultures saying the same thing as me. that even if you identify as, and present as best as you can, as the gender opposite your birth-assigned gender, you aren't fully the whole package for that gender, so they'd consider full-on transwomen nonbinary in spite of their binary identities.

>>7654984
You're wrong. I'm studying medicine, and we've actually had several lectures on gender and sexuality. What you're describing is known as DSD, differences in sexual development. This umbrella term is used to describe a a wide variety of conditions involving abnormalities in the cellular response to sex hormones.

Physicians today are trained to understand the difference between sex (involving genital development), sexuality (sexual preferences of the patient) and gender identity.

>>7655782
Okay, your argument here just seems to be about passing somehow. I only consider this relevant to attention-seeking weirdos who clearly make no attempt to pass whatsoever (e.g. people I ran into on Tumblr who claimed to be female identities but who couldn't be bothered to shave a full beard), otherwise I go with what people present as and tell me they are.

I have met many cisgender people who do not "pass" well as their own biological sex. Scrutinizing people gets ridiculous at a certain point. If I say I am gender X, have a name like gender X, present like gender X, have gender X as my legal gender, etc., then I expect people to refer to me that way regardless of whether or not they think there's something "off" about me. They have literally no way of knowing what genitals I was born with. Once again, that's private information.

>I don't understand why you used that specific quote of mine

It sounded wishy-washy to me. Wishy-washy about what to use as the determining factor of what gender someone is results in "76 genders."

Yeah, the baby thing is fucked up.

>>7655792
>whilst i disagree with you there because i think phenotype is important even with strangers who can't necessarily see your neurology unless you do your best to pass... that's besides the point.

Again with the passing thing.

No, it's never important with strangers. They have precisely zero right or need to know what genitals I was born with.

>i consider anyone who isn't binary AND cis, to be nonbinary

That is bizarre. My chromosomes and phenotype fit one end, my neurology the other. They're both binary.

I identify as a binary gender, live as a binary gender, etc. The only argument you have that I cannot belong to a reasonably binary end of the spectrum is to arbitrarily pick some neurological feature (whether or not I'm good at systematizing, for example) of mine which is less common to that end and declare it to be more important than any other.

IIT: Normalizing mental illness

Nope, only 2 genders, I haven't heard a doctor or scientist say there are more.

It's threads and discussionsee like these that make me thankful that I don't put off that "gay vibe" and that I am quiet....

Holy fuck this is some retarded shit

>>7658005
Same. This shit seems useless.

>>7654575
No there are only two genders