So my boyfriend hit me yesterday for the first time ever and

give him a cheeky wristy

>>7627822
>out of fucking nowhere he starts screaming how I'm lazy and selfish for not making any money right now
Sounds like he's been pissed at you about this and bottling it up for a long time. You need to talk to him about this and make sure he doesn't bottle things up like that anymore or he will explode again. Also, you need to get a job, any job will do.

>>7627840
yeah i didn't see him in the morning i'll try and talk to him tonight

>>7627822
he hit you.

that's a red flag.

if you stay, you're telling him "its ok to hit me if you have a really good reason"

it WILL happen again. probably because you threw out an old magazine THAT MY DAD GAVE ME BEFORE HE DIED YOU BITCH. POW.

>>7628132
This. Your best course of action is to leave.

Sure, he was angry. But is it normal for someone who's angry to physically attack their partner (especially over something like "not having a job" which could easily be addressed with words)? He thought so, and he will again.

>>7627822
>He's not the type at all
how do people say stuff like this and not realize that they're literally falling into the stereotypical trap of an abusive relationship

like do people think abusive relationships are always abusive from the start or something? so fucking weird

you fucked up, apologize, suck his peenor a few times and clean the fucking house, you don't even have a job you useless cumrag, do SOMETHING instead of siting on your fat ass looking at the computer 24/7 are honestly surprised, he's put up with your whiny shit this long while he goes out and busts his ass in a job he hates to keep a roof over your head and feed you and you lay on the couch and act like you deserve it

>>7628232
this is how women become republicans

>>7627822
>He's not the type at all, we've been together for almost three years now and we moved in together a year ago
It takes years to get to know a person. Congratulations, you just learned his true nature.

Leave him asap

>>7627870
Let us know how it goes please

pow right in the kisser

>>7627822
OP. Leave the relationship. If he hits you once, that means he can hit you again. People like that do not deserve to have their abuse enabled or rewarded. And get a job.

>>7627822
Talk to him and see where that goes. If you truly feel it was a mistake and feel the conversation turns out productive, give him a second chance, but be on your guard. if it happens again, leave ASAP

Leave the relationship. It's already an abusive relationship.

He's either going to try to make it up to you and then hit you once more (and fall into the vicious cycle), or he's going to realize he doesn't want to be with you and dump you.

I have never understood people who don't date others who are NEETs only because they don't have jobs: for fuck's sakes, it's supposed to be your lover, not business partner.

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>>7628232
>tfw no bf that'll verbally abuse me that way, treat me like shit, and make me his cum dumpster like the waste of human flesh I am

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>>7628132
>>7628171
>>7628324
>>7628577
>>7628700
Anyone without a separate savings fund just for these kinds of emergencies, should get on that ASAP.

>>7627822

1. Gather as much money as possible that belongs to you. Sell belongings you can live without if you have to and leave. Make sure it's at least enough for a down payment on an apartment/room and 2 months rent. If you can't do that...

2. If you have understanding or discreet friends & family, talk to them and ask if they can help you out. Tell them your situation. If they know a guy/girl they trust with space for you. But if those ideas don't work...

3. Go to a local or state-funded LGBT rights organization. Domestic violence among LGBT partnerships is experienced at a rate higher than in cis and heterosexual relationships. They can usually point you in the right direction to a space in a shelter for those who experienced domestic violence.

4. Find a job that you can pull some money from and to keep your mind off of it. The last and most important step...

5. Tell them that it's over. If you want to put your relationship on hold instead, that maybe you can come back to it if he get's help with his issues, make that very clear. Issues like this don't go away on their own.

You don't have to feel like you're above asking for help OP,or that your fears aren't justified. It will get better if you take this advice and save up in the event this happens again. Be careful of people who might want to take advantage of your vulnerability.

>>7627822
Your only possible way to fix it is to make him go to therapy or coples therapy.

>>7630456
This is actually a dangerous misconception. As Lundy Bancroft writes in "Why Does He Do That? Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men":
>The more psychotherapy an abusive man has participated in, the more impossible I usually find it is to work with him. The highly “therapized" abuser tends to be slick, condescending, and manipulative. He uses the psychological concepts he has learned to dissect his partner’s flaws and dismiss her perceptions of abuse. He takes responsibility for nothing that he does; he moves in a world where there are only unfortunate dynamics, miscommunications, symbolic acts. He expects to be rewarded for his emotional openness, handled gingerly because of his “vulnerability,” colluded with in skirting the damage he has done, and congratulated for his insight. Many years ago, a violent abuser in my program shared the following with us: “From working in therapy on my issues about anger toward my mother, I realized that when I punched my wife, it wasn’t really her I was hitting. It was my mother!” He sat back, ready for us to express our approval of his self-awareness. My colleague peered through his glasses at the man, unimpressed by this revelation. “No,” he said, “you were hitting your wife.”
>I have yet to meet an abuser who has made any meaningful and lasting changes in his behavior toward female partners through therapy, regardless of how much “insight”—most of it false—that he may have gained. The fact is that if an abuser finds a particularly skilled therapist and if the therapy is especially successful, when he is finished he will be a happy, well-adjusted abuser—good news for him, perhaps, but not such good news for his partner. Psychotherapy can be very valuable for the issues it is devised to address, but partner abuse is not one of them; an abusive man needs to be in a specialized program.

tl;dr therapy doesn't solve abusive behavior.

>>7627822
Don't leave him, anon. He did a bad thing and you should make sure he knows that, but we all make mistakes.
If you've been together for three years then I don't think it's worth nding it just because he did one stupid and hurtful thing.
Talk to him about it

>>7631441
A "stupid and hurtful thing" would be throwing away something of theirs, or ignoring their texts for a couple days, not fucking screaming at them and punching them in the face twice

>>7627822
Should've punched him back then get into a hot sweaty fist fight then have buttsecks after
You're both men, solve it like men do and beat the shit out of him lol

>>7627822
Break up. There's a 99% chance that if he hits you like that once, he'll do it again, especially if he also flipped out at you like that.

>>7628132
sounds like you may be projecting a bit sweetie

>>7631523
They always hit you again.
They always escalate.
Always.

Your dynamic now, when the chips are down, when money is tight... this is how he handles stress and honey there will always be stress. Always be an excuse. Loom for work and housing away from him. Go.

Who is the sub?

>>7627822
I agree with what most people here are saying you should just leave him it's only going to get worse.

>>7627822
>He's not the type at all
the type of person who hits people, is defined solely by the fact that they hit people. he hit you.
>he punched me twice so my lip started bleeding
it's not even a bitch slap or a thump on the shoulder, it's a goddamn punch to the face. two

>>7628519
Thanks for the advice everyone it means a lot.

So he got back from work and the moment he stepped through the door he gave me a hug and said he couldn't stop thinking about yesterday and how stupid he had acted towards the guy he loved. Then we had dinner and talked some more and came to the conclusion I need to get a job by the end of next month. I think he just boiled over cause of money and work stress, he really seems deeply regretful over what he did. I don't think he's a bad guy. He even got me flowers.

>>7633855
so it begins.

>>7633855
Anons BTFO

>>7633855
Make it absolutely clear to him that if it ever happens again, that you're packing your bags.

>>7633992
I don't have any experience in these things but wouldn't it maybe be better to not tell him you would leave and just leave secretly so he doesn't think to stop you?

>>7633992
Yes if it happens again I'll go live with my parents, neither of us want that to happen.

>>7628176
This.

Two choices.

1) Ultimatum: if it ever occurs again - leave immediately and cut all ties

2) Pack your bags and get out - today. Cut all ties

>>7627822
>for the first time
And you know there'll be a second.

>>7633855
>I don't think he's a bad guy.
That doesn't mean this is a healthy relationship.

>>7628700
>I have never understood people who don't date others who are NEETs only because they don't have jobs: for fuck's sakes, it's supposed to be your lover, not business partner.

No, but they're a potential life partner, and being able to have enough money to sustain one's desired lifestyle is a pretty fucking huge part of that.
Partners need to have each other's back. That doesn't always include having a job, but for many people it does.

>>7631379
That's interesting.
But surely the focus of the therapy makes a difference? Like, the difference between that man metaphorically hitting his mother vs physically hitting his wife - it's the difference between self-indulgent, destinationless introspection vs confronting the actual issue, which is the harm he's doing to other people.
(Not an apologist or anything, just an interesting topic).

And just for context of this excerpt, what does the writer mean by "working with" these abusers? Are they also a psychotherapist, maybe with a different approach, or something different?

>>7631562

100% this.
OP, job stress is an unavoidable fact of life, and when you spend your life with a person there's a good chance that there's worse than that waiting for you at some point.
If he can't handle something as ubiquitous as money trouble, how the fuck is he going to handle children, or migration, or career change, or layoffs, or illness?
Life can get fucking hard, that's just how it is. You need a partner who will weather the storm with you, not turn on you for a punching bag.

And you're the one who's in between jobs, that's fucking scary for you too, but you didn't flip out and hit anyone.
The fact that he'd turn on you when you're both going through a period of stress is the furthest thing from an excuse, this is when couples need to support each other the most.
"Oh, the safety nets usually work fine, but the stress of the acrobat's fall just shook them loose," bitch that's what they're designed for!

And I mean, I don't know the other side of all of this, for all I know you really were being a selfish freeloader. But at that point he still just needs to be able to either reach out for your support or wash his hands and leave, at no point does flipping out and hitting you enter into the equation.
You don't have to be an angel for him to have fucked the hell up.

Maybe he's sorry, and maybe he's not a really bad guy, but that doesn't mean he's someone you should stay with. You don't build a life with someone because they're 'not really a bad guy,' or because you don't think they deserve the pain of you leaving.
In the real world, love ISN'T enough - unless you define love as being able to communicate openly without fearing judgement or rage, to support each other without expecting compensation, to be vulnerable without fear of looking weak or useless, to try and give each other the best and make decisions as a team. And if the latter is how you define love, then I'm sorry honey but you don't have it.

>>7627822
How does gay domestic violence work? How do the police know who to arrest?

>>7641313

Neither, they just send the drugged, naked, bleeding, pleading, kidnapped 14 year old boy back to Jeffry Dahmer's to be murdered and eaten because they don't want to get involved in a homo "lover's quarrel."

Sorry to come out of left field with that but IT MAKES ME SO MAD.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Balcerzak

>>7641325
Fuck, I'd managed to forget that happened.

Police are so awful.

>>7641208
>>7641208
The author is a couselor who specializes in working with abusive men, though these days I think he mostly trains other people (social workers, other therapists, etc) on how to handle abusive clients. The program he mentions is probably Emerge, which he was the codirector of. And yes, the focus of the therapy is very different. He writes:

>Therapy focuses on the man’s feelings and gives him empathy and support, no matter how unreasonable the attitudes that are giving rise to those feelings.
>An abusive man’s therapist usually will not speak to the abused woman, whereas the counselor of a high-quality abuser program always does.
>Therapy typically will not address any of the central causes of abusiveness, including entitlement, coercive control, disrespect, superiority, selfishness, or victim blaming.

>>7631379
>>7641617
Does this also apply to abusive women?

>>7641630
Probably? The book just focuses on men but I imagine the causes of abuse are mostly the same in both sexes.

>>7641635
Why would it only focus on men if it applies the same to both??

>>7641712
Ask Bancroft, idk

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>>7627822
You are to blame OP.
If you weren't so lazy he would have never hit you.
It's your fault.
Don't force him to hit you again.
He only did it because he loves you.
You're lucky that he puts up with your worthless Bullshit self.

>>7642300
>>7641635
Also, specificity isn't a bad thing. While women may (probably) have similar reasons for abusive behavior, their modes of abuse and typical victims are different from men's. Women's abuse deserves attention but not necessarily in this specific book.

>>7631379
>Many years ago, a violent abuser in my program shared the following with us: “From working in therapy on my issues about anger toward my mother, I realized that when I punched my wife, it wasn’t really her I was hitting. It was my mother!” He sat back, ready for us to express our approval of his self-awareness. My colleague peered through his glasses at the man, unimpressed by this revelation. “No,” he said, “you were hitting your wife.”

Holy shit! A therapist with a set of balls!
I thought that all therapists week wavy gravy mollie-ciddlers who enabled psychos all day long by listening to their Bullshit self agrandizing stories.

Dude shut that shit down right away.

>>7631490
Also you should be wearing top hats and diapers while smoking cigars.

>>7631601
Isn't it obvious?

>>7642353
Completely missed the fucking point

The dude was getting to the point of his anger was never really CAUSED by his wife, but by his mother, and thus, directing it on her is wrong

Why would you try and correct someone, if them acknowleging this can help them stop abusing? The fuck is wrong with you?

Do you WANT more abuse?

See, I dont think people either do, or do not abuse...I think past trauma, stress, lack of communications, all play factors. I'm not supporting it, but im not A GIANT IDIOT PANSY who thinks the best way to stop it is to make it taboo, the best way is understanding the fucking CAUSES and removing them.

>>7627822
Leave him. Hes a bad person.

>>7641208
>if I naval gaze it makes me less of an abuser.

Not really at all though.

>>7642368
Anyway, in all seriousness anon, HERES your course of action.

1: Ask him WHAT lead to him wanting to hit you?
2: Tell him to TALK to you about stresses, and vow to do what you can to reduce it, however possible
3: LEARN what gets him upset, red flags, ect, and how to resolve tension

If you do these 3 things, and you both communicate, and try to work with each other, it won't happen again.

Signed, an anon who grew up around abuse, and knows its because of other BS making someone unstable. Stop the cause, stop the abuse.

>>7642376
>not really
if an action makes you abuse less, how are you not less, no long an abuser?

>>7642368
Therapy enables all sorts of destructive behaviors.

Go fuck yourself.

>>7642388
So heres a question, are people just BORN shitty, and you think they cannot be cured? Or is there a cause, shithead?

abuse shouldn't be outright excused, but saying any relationship where anyone hits anyone ever, MUST END, is retarded, particularly if there is remorse, and its clearly not meant as cruelty.

>>7642388
>Therapy enables all sorts of destructive behaviors.
[spoiler]Like transition.[/spoiler]

>>7641712
Because this,

Don't women abuse just as much as men do?
No. According to the U.S. Bureau of Justice, 95% of relationship abuse is perpetrated by a man against a woman and the remaining 5% is primarily a man against a man or a woman against a woman. However, men can be victims and women can be perpetrators, and domestic violence occurs in same-gender relationships.This is not to minimize, in any way, the experience of men as survivors of relationship abuse, but instead to highlight the fact that this is a type of gender violence. This also does not mean all men are abusive. In the same way that all NFL players are men, but most men aren’t NFL players—most abusers are men, but most men aren’t abusive. Finally, these stats do not include child abuse

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>>7642405
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOH

Get DUNKED ON.

In all seriousness though, identifying HOW and WHY it happened is how you keep it from happening. Some people, who are hyper controlling, sadistic, ect, I can agree to leave them, but OP obviously got hit out of sheer stress, which was almost instantly regretted

had OP's bf said "thats what you get bitch" and just let it go, sure, I'd say leave, but there was instant regrets there, showing remorse is very much alive.

You must look at the costs too...is leaving over hitting a single time (because it HAS been a single time) worth it? I don't think so, if you have something otherwise good, and frankly, you DONT know if it will happen again..

....but I guess you faggots saying to leave is just your promiscuity talking

>>7642423
>95%
Citation please?

Pretty sure this has fallen QUITE a bit

>>7642423
>95%
Also, this is kinda irrelivant if you adjust for gays and lesbians being a smaller population.... really they abuse just as much, if not more.

>>7633855
I was hit by the guy I was dating once. Never again. I even tried to forgive him and keep going, but he was abusive in other ways and completely self-centered. I screwed up a great professional relationship because of him, and it meant nothing to him because he "needed me," to be physically present as much as possible (I was living 90 mins away. He had no job). He once abandoned me in a town I didn't know because I was having a good time and not fawning over him. Those kinds of things don't change.

Ultimately I'm glad he put all his crazy up front because now I can't even understand how I was able to overlook it for so long. Your boyfriend might not be like my ex, but the lack of self control it takes to hit someone you love not once, but TWICE, is scary in a lot of ways.

And even though I am now out of that relationship it has already become a part of my negative thought process. Thoughts like: "This is why you get guys who hit you," or "maybe you only deserve guys who hit you," or "maybe I'll need to suck it up and stay with the next guy who comes along even if he does hit me." Those thoughts and more pop into my head all the time now. Don't compromise your self-esteem that way. Leave.

>>7642368
Did you miss that the guy exhibited absolutely no empathy for his wife and just saw her as a symbol and an outlet for anger? Clearly this "therapy" didn't help at all.

>>7642444
>abusive in other ways
I take this with a grain of salt, unless you explain

some think guilting someone into something, or begging, or whatever is "abusive", or even someone not wanting you to do something you want.

>>7642454
Are you saying though, that people being open on WHY it happens is bad?

The dude is justifying it, granted, and thats not good, but understanding why, and NOT justifying it, are the best ways to go about it.

Its akin to a part on a car breaking down : Rather than throw out the whole car, especially if its treated you well before, try to figure why its not working, fix it, and keep it from happening again.

>>7642423
>>7642429
There is no citation, because it's false.

http://smu.edu/experts/study-documents/family-violence-study-may2006.pdf
>male against female violence is exhibited in 13.66% of couples
>female against male violence is exhibited in 18.20% of couples
Which shows women are 133% MORE LIKELY to commit domestic abuse.

>>7642478
>Most of my clients are not unusually repressed. In fact, many of them express their feelings more than some nonabusive men. Rather than trapping everything inside, they actually tend to do the opposite: They have an exaggerated idea of how important their feelings are, and they talk about their feelings—and act them out—all the time, until their partners and children are exhausted from hearing about it all. An abuser’s emotions are as likely to be too big as too small. They can fill up the whole house. When he feels bad, he thinks that life should stop for everyone else in the family until someone fixes his discomfort. His partner’s life crises, the children’s sicknesses, meals, birthdays—nothing else matters as much as his feelings.
>It is not his feelings the abuser is too distant from; it is his partner’s feelings and his children’s feelings. Those are the emotions that he knows so little about and that he needs to “get in touch with.” My job as an abuse counselor often involves steering the discussion away from how my clients feel and toward how they think (including their attitudes toward their partners’ feelings). My clients keep trying to drive the ball back into the court that is familiar and comfortable to them, where their inner world is the only thing that matters.
>For decades, many therapists have been attempting to help abusive men change by guiding them in identifying and expressing feelings. Alas, this well-meaning but misguided approach actually feeds the abuser’s selfish focus on himself, which is an important force driving his abusiveness.
- Lundy Bancroft

>>7642495
But what about those studies that show women are just as abusive as men?
These studies use a research tool called the “Conflict Tactics Scale,” which does not control for the context in which the violence occurred, such as use of force in self-defense or retaliation. So, for example, if a man is strangling a woman and she scratches him to get him to stop, they each get “one point” on the conflict tactics scale for use of violence! Even more significantly, if a woman has been abused by a man for years, he pushes her into the wall, and she picks up a knife, brandishes it and says “get away from me,” she will get two points and he will get one. This is the substance of studies that found women are more violent than or as violent as men. Furthermore, other studies consistently find that no matter what the rate of violence or who initiates the violence, women are 7 to 10 times more likely to be injured in acts of intimate partner violence than men are.
http://stoprelationshipabuse.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/A-Critique-of-the-Conflict-Tactics-Scales.pdf

>>7642423
Bull.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestic_violence_in_same-sex_relationships

Homosexual men have the lowest percentage of domestic violence.
Heterosexual men the second lowest.
Homosexual women have the highest.

>>7642505
Oh look, ANOTHER post which does not understand repression!!!

Remember, repress is NOT to ignore, or deny, but be aware which dog you are feeding.

>>7642516
I just wanna say, I think the "macho man factor" would mean the gay abuse rate is actually a bit higher.

>>7642460
He was emotionally abusive. He admitted once that he said things specifically to hurt me. I mentioned it already but he abandoned me in a town I wasn't familiar with and I had to walk 4 miles in the rain because apparently Uber isn't a thing there somehow. He was an asshole and I feel like I was consciously dumbing myself down to be with him because I was starved for affection. I'm just glad I have a good group of supportive friends who helped me snap out of it.

>>7642514
I didn't see anything about "conflict tactics scales" in that study, which page was it on?

Good point about self-defense, here is a study which discusses reciprocity:
http://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/abs/10.2105/AJPH.2005.079020
>Almost 24% of all relationships had some violence, and half (49.7%) of those were reciprocally violent. In nonreciprocally violent relationships, women were the perpetrators in more than 70% of the cases. Reciprocity was associated with more frequent violence among women (adjusted odds ratio [AOR]=2.3; 95% confidence interval [CI]=1.9, 2.8), but not men (AOR=1.26; 95% CI=0.9, 1.7). Regarding injury, men were more likely to inflict injury than were women (AOR=1.3; 95% CI=1.1, 1.5), and reciprocal intimate partner violence was associated with greater injury than was nonreciprocal intimate partner violence regardless of the gender of the perpetrator (AOR=4.4; 95% CI=3.6, 5.5).
In other words, regardless of whether the woman is "just fighting back" as in your narrative or initiating the violence, it is reciprocal violence that leads to worse outcomes for men and women.

So regardless of who initiated, the best defense is deescalation, not a mutually violent relationship, which leads to more harm to men and women.

>>7642505
Heres the difference between repression, ignoreing, and this asshole

REPRESSION :
>I've hit my wife before, and I regret it. I know it was caused by a combination of my mothers issues, anger from work, and miscommunication. I don't want to justify it because its terrible, and I try to work on every day keeping those terrible thoughts away from my mind, and communicate with my wife. Shes important to me, and I don't want to hurt her

IGNORING :
>I hit my wife before, but we just act like it never happened. Theres no point thinking about it, or talking about it, so we kinda just deny it was ever a thing. I don't need to learn anything, just promise to never do it again. Its not like understanding how it happened would help

THIS ASSHOLE
>I hit my wife, its just the way things are. I understand, am transparent, so its ok. I deserve pity for it


Clearly, REPRESSING, but understanding is the best.

>>7642495
Thanks.

>>7642529
Sounds kinda like a jerk, but I am only getting your side

Sometimes, the other party instigates...not saying you did, but IF you did, you are partly to blame too.

These studies are biased against men because they don't control for dominance. The dominant partner in the relationship is more likely to be violent, and men are more often dominant.

See
http://pubpages.unh.edu/%7Emas2/ID41E2.pdf

It also shows dominant women are actually more violent than dominant men. The statistics just look the other way, like the recent study that said only 40% of DV victims were men (not <5%, no idea where that came from), because the number of dominant man relationships massively exceeds the number of dominant woman relationships.

>>7627840
>this
cannot emphasize it enough

>>7642555
DAMN GOOD POINT ANON

This is why uppity, contentious women are bad : Any time you get someone weaker trying to abuse someone stronger, its just begging for tragedy.

Generally, having the weaker be respectfully subordinate, and the stronger be respectfully dominant, is best, just so things won't go south.

however, this takes BOTH parties man, and women
>on LGBT
er....the fag, and the smaller fag.

>>7642525
>"macho man factor"
Probably, yes. But most likely just enough to put them above heterosexual men.

>>7642321
Sounds like an excuse to whitewash female abuse and pretend like only men do it.

>>7642578
This is what I've been saying. Lack of communication, lack of caring, ect, will cause this

You can't be a person who blows off your SO's concerns, then wonder why the fuck he hit you randomly....because you already know why, and didn't give a fuck

I've seen women do this, constantly belittling their man, treating him like trash, and wonder why a man beats and rapes them

Gee, wonder why?

Cause and effect people.

>>7642514
>>7642555
Reminds me of this interesting argument I read once:
>The concept of self-defence, especially in domestic violence cases, was designed by men to benefit men. In my country at least, your attack is only considered “legitimate self-defence” if it is a) necessary, b) immediate, c) proportionate.
>A concept of self-defence that only applies if you hurt or kill someone while they are attacking you, and if you hurt or kill them using the same weapons as them (your bare hands, if that’s what they are using) only benefits people who are likely to be attacked by people of similar size and physical strength, and is utterly useless to women.
>When a bigger, stronger male beats up his much smaller wife, it’s almost impossible for her to kill him in self-defence (immediately and proportionately ie with nothing but her fists), and yet it’s the scenario through which she can hope to be acquitted or get a light sentence. That’s not a coincidence. The other two scenarios (and she will be despised if she picks either) are for her to
>1) kill him later (when he can’t use his physical advantage, eg when he’s asleep or has his back turned on her), but it won’t be self-defence because it won’t be immediate. (In the Jacqueline Sauvage case, one of the main arguments against her was that she shot her husband in the back at a time when he wasn’t actively beating her up)
>2) use a weapon, but it won’t be self-defence because it won’t be proportionate. Obviously this condition also benefits men, because when a woman gets punched by her husband and she punches him back, it’s seen as a proportionate response but it shouldn’t be, because her punch (typically) won’t do nearly as much damage as his. Anything else she does (like use a weapon) to try and hurt him as much as he hurt her will be considered a disproportionate response and will mean it wasn’t self-defence.

>>7642514
>does not control for the context in which the violence occurred, such as use of force in self-defense or retaliation. So, for example, if a man is strangling a woman and she scratches him to get him to stop, they each get “one point” on the conflict tactics scale for use of violence! Even more significantly, if a woman has been abused by a man for years, he pushes her into the wall, and she picks up a knife, brandishes it and says “get away from me,” she will get two points and he will get one.
Except women are more likely to initiate violence. Some men are particularly violent, but as a rule women initiate.
http://ajph.aphapublications.org/cgi/reprint/97/5/941
>women are more likely than men to initiate violence in their relationships and are more likely to be aggressive more frequently
Violence from women is less likely to be one-off and more likely to be part of a pattern.
>29% of female college students admitted to physically attacking their boyfriends when no threat was perceived.
This puts paid to the scratching him to get him to stop myth.

>>7642609
>rape is a rational move when your SO ignores your concerns, as opposed to just fucking leaving/kicking them out
OOOOOK BUDDY

>>7642622
The problem is, this relies on massive uncertainty. And when you speak of violence, doing it from uncertainty is a VERY bad idea

Its like if I'm paranoid I will get beat up, so I stab a random man at the bus stop whos walking up

Besides this, it focuses entirely on defense, rather than de-escalation, or prevention, and THIS is how you get "kill all men" feminists

>>7642609
Abuse is not about provocation or loss of control.
http://stoprelationshipabuse.org/educated/causes/

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>>7642646
>rational
nice misquote.

No, its not rational, or acceptable, but I'm not retarded enough to think I can make someone feel like shit all the time, and expect them to act FAIRLY to me

Try spitting at a dogs face a bunch, see if it eventually bites your ass

>>7642651
>buncha propaganda, nobody, under any amount of stress, anywhere, gets aggressive
hue

esearch has shown that relationship abuse >is NOT caused by the following factors:

Provocation
Behavior of victim or problems in the relationship
Stress
Drugs or alcohol
Testosterone
Genetic factors
Loss of control
Anger
Communication problems
Illness or mental health issues
Culture
Poverty

Fucking hue

>FEMINIST THEORY
TOP KEK

Gr8 b8 m8 I r8 8/8

In all seriousness though, do you really think, no matter how stressed, no matter how pissed off no matter how mentally ill a man gets, ect, he will never get violent?

Is this LEGIT what you think?

>Being this retarded
>MFW

>>7642684
Victim provocation is no more common in domestic violence than in any other crime. Abusers make a choice to abuse; an abuser can always make a choice to break up with the person or walk away or talk it out rather than use abuse. There are no studies that show women like being abused. Battered women often make repeated attempts to leave violent relationships, but are prevented from doing so by increased violence and control tactics on the part of the abuser. 75% of domestic violence-related deaths occur after a victim takes steps to separate from the abuser. Therefore, staying in a relationship is often a survivor strategy.

>>7642622
I'd much rather have the female privilege of automatically being believed by emergency services and supported by the authorities, even when I'm not the one who called the police or displaying injuries, than this supposed male benefit of being tricky for my wife to kill.

>>7642684
>raping someone is acting FAIRLY all because you went ignored for a week
>ignoring someone = spitting in a dogs face
OOOOK BUDDY
GOOD THING YOU'RE ALONE

>>7642622
>kill him later (when he can’t use his physical advantage, eg when he’s asleep or has his back turned on her), but it won’t be self-defence because it won’t be immediate. (In the Jacqueline Sauvage case, one of the main arguments against her was that she shot her husband in the back at a time when he wasn’t actively beating her up)
>>7642704
>staying in a relationship is often a survivor strategy.
So what you're trying to justify is women killing their partners in cold blood rather than contacting the police, who are biased towards women who claim DV, or going to shelters, which are by a massive majority female-only?

If the genders were reversed, you would have a case for the victim being trapped in the relationship. As it is, I think you just want women to get away with partner murder, when in no other situation would someone get away with claiming self-defense, nor in the same situation where a man kills his violent partner in self-defense.

>>7642704
Nobody said it was JUST victim provocation though, retard. Its an element, like like anything

and all this talk on "choice" is practically trying to say theres no pressures

its like saying people who have had their entire families slaughtered CHOOSE to kill themselves

This is technically true, but would they have the URGE to do it, if the motivation wasn't there?

Doing things, ANYTHINGS, comes down to several factors

>URGES : instinctive desire to wish to do something

>REASON : logical reasons to wish to do something

>CHOICE : human beings choosing, based on the perceptions of URGES and REASON

Thus, if you have a man, who has urges to lash our, because things are bad, and no amount of trying to be reasonable is helping to calm his urges, how long can you expect him to not lash out, when he cannot perceive reasons not to, without essentially saying himself does not matter?

THIS is why understanding motivations behind how people think is immensely important, lying about it, having it taboo, refusing to talk about it, that won't help anybody.

>>7642730
http://pubpages.unh.edu/%7Emas2/V70%20version%20N3.pdf
Social approval of male-to-female violence has significantly dropped over 40 years, while approval of female-to-male violence remains steady. Overall, female-to-male violence has risen while male-to-female violence rates have remained constant or decreased (depending on type).

>>7642710
>more misrepresentations of argument

nice dude... I'm guessing your trying to promote people being closed minded?

I'm not saying its fair, or right, I'm saying it is what it is, just like swallowing bleach is fatal

its not "fair" or "right" or "moral" for it to kill you, it simply IS

Why is it if I suggest something is a thing, you think I'm saying its GOOD?

Understanding of things means being aware of cause and effect, irrelevant to how YOU feel about it.

And thats how I feel : I don't care so much how I feel about how things work, so much as I KNOW that they are the way things work.

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>>7627822
>I'm so conflicted on what to do

Move out immediately.
This is how domestic abuse starts.
The makeup sex is incredibly hot, so it will be tempting to forgive him but if you do continue to see him he is bound to hit you again and the violence will escalate with time.
This is a fact that has been proven over and over again.
Don't be a victim even if it means you have to get a job and support yourself for a while, you lazy fucking piece of shit.

>>7642783
>misrepresentations
then stop saying stupid shit desu neko chan and get to making proper arguments :3

also tl;dr
spend more time on your homework over whatever the fuck you're ranting about

>>7642756
But what about those studies that show women are just as abusive as men?
These studies use a research tool called the “Conflict Tactics Scale,” which does not control for the context in which the violence occurred, such as use of force in self-defense or retaliation. So, for example, if a man is strangling a woman and she scratches him to get him to stop, they each get “one point” on the conflict tactics scale for use of violence! Even more significantly, if a woman has been abused by a man for years, he pushes her into the wall, and she picks up a knife, brandishes it and says “get away from me,” she will get two points and he will get one. This is the substance of studies that found women are more violent than or as violent as men. Furthermore, other studies consistently find that no matter what the rate of violence or who initiates the violence, women are 7 to 10 times more likely to be injured in acts of intimate partner violence than men are.
http://stoprelationshipabuse.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/A-Critique-of-the-Conflict-Tactics-Scales.pdf

that guy was known for creating cts methodology which has many critiques.

>>7642796
citation needed

>>7642799
You didn't answer my question

Why is saying something is a certain way, the same to saying its GOOD?

Do you think that, if you admit gays have higher risk of aids, this is good?

If you say the world is homophobic, is THAT good?

Your using tactics of making arguments which aren't even arguments, but which make people laugh, to try and shut me down. You have no counter point, you are merely hoping people will laugh at

>stupid shit desu neko chan

and then think I'm wrong, because its funny

But this is fallacious, it can be applied to any argument.

>>7642514
>>7642814
Why are you spamming the same debunked stuff?

That partisan study has already been shown to be flawed>>7642555 >>7642639

>>7642848
>flawed
Elaborate, and cit

>>7642814
That study doesn't use your CTS strawman, lrn2read

>>7642730
I didn't write that, I just thought it was interesting. I agree that the a woman shouldn't get away with murdering her husband in cold blood. i'm willing to bet that any woman who kills her abusive husband by stabbing him in his sleep/poisoning him/etc. is aware of the consequences and has accepted them, believing she has no other option (isolation is a part of abuse).

>>7642861
That post has quotes in it...

>>7642934
Which quotes are the problem?

Stop being a lazy fucksmear and explain what you mean.

>>7642882
CTS? We aren't texting people....

>>7642912
Right right, because women are incapable of being cold blooded, evil bitches who lie, right?

just my 2 cents on women being injured more, this doesn't men they are right.

People who run at police with a knife and scream "DIE PIG!!!" get killed more than police in that situation, doesn't mean they didn't start it.

>>7642814
>>7642987
>that guy was known for creating cts methodology which has many critiques.
>CTS? We aren't texting people....
Confirmed spammer.

In all honesty, trying to say abuse is because patriarchy only makes abuse worse, because it ignores the actual cause..

>>7642987
>Right right, because women are incapable of being cold blooded, evil bitches who lie, right?
Wtf? I said they should be prosecuted for murder regardless. Whether or not they're "evil" (lol).

>>7643035
Almost as though feminist doesn't care about women, just about creating demands of men for certain women.

Similar to feminist rape hysteria and support for false accusations making things worse for male and female victims of real rape.

>>7643069
Sorry, misunderstood... I just hate when people say women who murder husbands are OBVIOUSLY innocent

>>7643075
Whats even more funny is, if abuse is cause by patriarchy, why do lesbians face domestic abuse?

>>7643027
wtf why can't he recognize the acronym he just posted?

>>7643013
rrrrrrrrrrrreally makes me think

>>7627822
leave him and go back to your mom and dad

both of you'll be happy

>>7643027
Two different people obvs.
But you did make me look at data that shows roughly equal partner violence. So I guess I am currently revising my understanding of domestic abuse.

That does not change the fact however, that men who batter their partners are out there and everyone should know the signs of that. And I guess the reverse is true too.

>>7643197
implying they were the same people

but ok.

>>7643252
no kidding... Everything has a cause, or causes, and the cause(s) are always 100% correlating to it being there, and the absence of it being there is a 100% correlation of it not happening.

The hard part is working out other factors, and identifying the cause, but the above statement is true.

>>7643518
men who hit people are out there, but we shouldn't just say "once a beater, always a beater" but rather identify WHY they beat.

>>7643593
They beat because they can. Don't look for reasons besides control and entitlement.

They don't get so angry that they beat their coworkers right?

>>7627822
leave.

>>7643616
This is over simplyifying.

everyone does anything because they can, but thats not the only reason you do things, fuckwad.

>>7643593
identifying WHY they beat doesn't exclude the fact that they will always be beaters
there are repressed beaters, people who repress such actions, but they're always at risk of relapsing.

>>7643738
If you can remove the cause, how will it happen if there is no cause?

This is a genetic fallacy.

>>7643738
Also they only relapse if the cause comes back, just like someone with a rash is at risk of relapsing if the cause, or a cause, comes back and makes a new rash.

>>7642478
>Are you saying though, that people being open on WHY it happens is bad?
No.

>The dude is justifying it, granted, and thats not good
Which is exactly what's being discussed, no more no less.

>>7642400

Saying that a relationship in which a partner has been hit should end is not saying that the abusive party cannot ever be in a relationship.
But once they've hit someone, that relationship is fucking tainted, and both of them are forced to be on edge to make sure it never happens again. A relationship where anyone is in fear of physical violence is fundamentally unhealthy.
Someone who's behaved abusively can walk away, work on themselves, and find a perfectly good relationship with someone else where this has never and will never be an issue, but it will always be an issue in a relationship where that line's been crossed.

>>7645459
>implying one cannot let shit go, over time

Please.....

>>7642429
>but OP obviously got hit out of sheer stress
And stress is a big part of life. It'll happen again.

>is leaving over hitting a single time (because it HAS been a single time) worth it?
Just because something happened once doesn't mean it can be moved past. "It was just one rape, it was just one murder, it was just one cancer diagnosis."

get out while you still can and do it now!!!!

>>7645509
>stress is a bit part of life, it will happen again

Oversimplifying again huh? Completely forget that things are factors, and we can control them a fair bit?

>comparing a single hit, to rape, murder, or cancer

Not that those aren't COMPLETELY out of proportion.

>>7646906
>Oversimplifying again huh? Completely forget that things are factors, and we can control them a fair bit?
Fucking what?

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>>7627822
Sounds like he had it bottled up for a while, you probably are lazy. Go get a job. That doesn't mean its okay to hit ya, though.

>>7646915
Ok, so bf hits him

FACTORS
>communication level between them, and how much they feel they can trust / share stuff
>stress at home
>fighting
>lack of sex, or enjoyable release of some sorts
>spiritual health
>how hungry someone is
>ect

These factors, and more, play big parts in someones mood, and someones mood plays a big part in how they ACT

And so you can, if your aware, and diligent, usually prevent this from happening so long as the person isn't a psycho.

and, said BF is obviously not psycho because he immediately appologized, and REALLY wanted to make it up.

True abusers don't go for the "cycle" bs, they go for the stockholm syndrome method, its much easier to oppress someone if you make them feel like trash.

>>7646938

Those factors are just fucking life, and they'll weave in and out of it until we're all dead. The vast majority of people can deal with them without punching the person they supposedly love in the fucking face. If OP's boyfriend can't handle the basic stresses of life without getting violent, he's not someone to be around.

>>7647000
>just life
You honestly want to say if your SO refused to communicate at all, you felt like you HATED being home, you constantly got screamed at, you were absolutely blu balled from sex and denied any enjoyment during time off, had no spiritual health (given, being gay) and never had enough to eat, you wouldn't lash out?

I'm calling bullshit faggot.

>>7647003
>you wouldn't lash out?

No, I'd fucking leave well before that, because I don't put up with bullshit.