Cis lesbians, are you attracted to traps?

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I liked this guy when I was a kid but i also thought he was a girl so no, probably not
is it straight to like traps if you think they're girls? i lose interest once I learn they have dicks

Ftm but most consider us lesbians anyways. I'm "straight" but am curious about traps.

>>7615167
Even if they look feminine they still have a dick. So no.

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>>7615520
>>7615551
>>7615692
it sounds like being straight is mostly about interest in cock if you're properly socialized

>>7615520
Is it gay for girls to like trannies/femboys? I think that's what we need to boil this down to. Like if a girl gets ducked by bailey jay, is it only lesbo if the boobs touch?

>>7615707
>Is it gay for girls to like femboys
>femboys
>feminine boys
do you even know what a lesbian is?

>>7615714
Sure sure, sorry I meant to imply that hrt was involved. Some of them, and I'm referring specifically to them, take hormones to look feminine. So even though they're physically the same as trannies they claim to be boys still.

Really though we can drop them from this entirely and just focus on the tranny portion of the question.

>>7615707
>Like if a girl gets ducked by bailey jay, is it only lesbo if the boobs touch?

Holy shit

>be mtf
>be mostly stealth
>identify as lesbian
>cis les starts to flirt with me one day
>fall for her really bad
>feel my entire body tingle when we touch and get close
>I will have to tell her eventually

I'm so scared you guys... I don't want her to hate me. I'm in love with her.

>>7616341
I guess it depends on the person. Personally I wouldn't date a tranny but I'm sure there's cis lesbians out there who would.

>>7615707
>is it only lesbo if the boobs touch?
kek

>>7616862
If she likes you now she'll probably still like you when she knows. Especially if you're getting SRS eventually.

>>7616923
What if I don't want to get SRS, but I don't care if she wants to completely ignore my genitals..

>>7616948
It's scary that people like you can be stealth, it's like rapists in sheep's clothing

>>7615707
it's pretty gay if they look convincingly female, yeah

>>7615167
If I don't know they are a man. Yeah. I assume by trap you mean people who look obviously fem, not disgusting hons.

Once I find penis though. Mega turn off.

>>7615551
No. Most consider you a man who likes women. Aka a straight whi t e male

>>7616862
If you pulled this shit on me without telling me right away, I would literally file rape charges.

>>7617145
Calm down, they haven't even had sex and it sounds like it's only been a few weeks.

>>7617145
This. If I found out a "girl" I was attracted to was a she-male I'd shoot him and claim he tried to rape me.

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>>7617212
bitch i would disarm, tase, and tie you up like weak little female you are, then i would have you perform fellatio upon my shenis all day and all night

>>7616992

What the hell.. I'm not a rapist :/ I don't give a shit about sex. It's not my fault I have romantic feelings for somebody that started flirting with me and giving me attention. Ugh..

>>7617145
>>7617212

This is why I'm terrified to date. Insane people like you will make up fake rape charges just because you decide you don't like me when I've never done anything. She has initiated everything so far.

I have no obligation to tell someone something so personal before I am comfortable with them.

>>7616948
>I don't care if she wants to completely ignore my genitals..

i don't get this mentality. like trannies seem to think anyone is gonna be 100% up for having sex with them if they want to ignore this fat hard dick that's gonna be there. i like fucking pussy and the fact there isn't going to be one is a dealbreaker

there are so many girls in the world for someone to even consider having to settle with a tranny is beyond me

>>7617252
Yeah so stupid to suggest somebody might love someone as person over how good the sex is. What a retard.

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>>7617250
>tfw a random girl makes out with you
>tfw you haven't had SRS yet
>tfw you're gonna get murdered

>>7617212
you really think you're in the right when you have to kill someone and lie about them raping you? you are fucked in the head.

>>7617212
Literal psycho.

>>7617250
You are fine anon. People on this board (and unfortunately some in real life too are just fucking batshit)

Like you have the right to choose what genitals you want your partner to have. You even have the right to be disappointed or happy when we show you what we are working with.

What you DON'T have the right to do is have a mental break down when we show you, and act all entitled to our entire medical history. You got sick in 12th grade, and were bullied a lot or w.e kewl. We don't act crazy when you don't tell us.

You are a diabetic? Neat, we didn't expect to get that info up front. Don't expect shit like that from us.

I think trans people should tell you before you get into a sex/bedroom situation. *Just like you should tell any partner about any STD's you have had/have prior to sex*

But overreacting like that is literally just proving to the world you are human garbage and KARMA WILL FUCK YOU. HARD!

>>7617342
Says the guy that mutilates his crotch and gets high off dangerous drugs.

>>7617496
>gets high off dangerous drugs.

This is a thread for lesbians, stop baiting in here, male scum.

>>7617503
You're the male here, she-male.

>>7617496
I have done neither of those things crazy serial killer bitch

>>7615167
lesbians are only attracted to other females, and traps are male. even if a lesbian were attracted a trap without knowing he's male, any attraction would be based on the assumption that he's female

>>7622705
don't disagree w what your saying, but i've had enough cis les girls checking me out to know that attraction is not so clear and strict

t fem/andro guy

>>7615551
I mean they are if you effectively call yourself one

>>7617212
sounds like insecurity to me.

I'm fine with dating transwomen. It isn't an issue if they're cute and mentally stable/mature enough for a relationship. I like pussy, I love eating a woman out, and I adore her sitting on my face. If I can still do that with an intact trans woman in some fashion, I'd be happy, I think. No big dongs though please.

This only counts if they identify and live as a woman though.

>>7617250
Thank you for having a sane response. Sounds like we got some disgusting TERFs in this thread.

Look, I've been in the awkward position of dating a cisles before and it was awkward because she wasn't into my dick but she loved my personality.

Don't go down that road, it's really painful... even if your partner tries to be open and accepting, it's gonna be awkward as hell and probably make you miserable.

Sorry, familia :/

>>7623040
Then who are we supposed to date? Straight guys? Lol

>>7623072

Bisexual women I would assume. I'm still going to try and see if things will work with the les girl.. if she reacts negatively so be it.

Somewhat related, one time over lunch we were talking about past relationships and she said she dated a guy once. Her main issue was I guess she hates the way men look and she finds them unattractive. Then she was like "if there was a guy that basically looked just like a girl maybe that would work out, but that doesn't exist haha"

Not sure how to interpret that, but I'm guessing she wasn't thinking about trans people when she said that. Either way, if we do start dating I would prefer she didn't think of me as a man..

>>7617250
fuck you
I wish I could have romantic feelings about people but I just don't understand, all I want is sex and some type of love
why do you get to understand, want, and *have* romance, but *ignore* sex?

>>7623360
>Then she was like "if there was a guy that basically looked just like a girl maybe that would work out, but that doesn't exist haha"

Lol are you sure she can't tell? It honestly sounds like she's signalling here.

>>7623489

Lol yeah I know what it seems like, but I'm like 99% sure she doesn't know. Just all the vagina and period talk I have to wade through is one of many indicators haha. If she does know then I guess that's good because she must not care.

>>7623477

Sorry.. everyone is different anon. I just want to be loved and cared for. Sex feels nice, but it's not as important to me unless it's to please my partner.

To be honest if I was dating a trap who was actually a ciswoman I'd beat the shit out of the fucking breeder whore. Fucking rapist bitches who want to force you to pay for their damn bastard fetuses

>>7623682

This. If I found out a "trap" I was attracted to was a cis girl I'd shoot that her and claim she tried to rape me.

>>7623682
>>7623738
Hey look, you guys finally realized it was a troll and how ridiculous it all sounds! Congratulations! You're learning 4chan!

>>7623783
Thanks mom I'm trying my best.

>>7623682
Why would a cis woman downgrade themselves into a trap though?

>>7623925

Dick envy obviously

>>7623925
>have it all
Femininity and benis

>>7615167
Sure, they're my favorite kind of lesbian.

Just kidding, my religion doesn't allow me to do trannies.

>>7616923
yeah...no. like, not at all the case

>>7616862
depending on how far along this flirtation is, there's a still a chance to not be a complete asshole about this. no date yet? you need to tell before or when she asks you out or vice versa
1-2 coffee dates but nothing serious? play it dumb
>lol omigod you like like me tee hee i had no idea but listen before we explore this further...

already in a relationship? you have fucked up and you should feel bad, you are about to hurt her in a completely unforgivable and selfish manner because you are an entitled, selfish person with zero moral compass

fuck yeah im mostly not attracted to whats attached to the dick not the dick itself and traps are for all intents and purposes basically girls

>>7617145
>>7617212
And they say trannies are the crazy ones. Top kek

>>7615707
Real answer is it doesn't fucking matter. Like who you like, fuck who you want to fuck. Labels are meaningless anyways.

>>7625168
>already in a relationship? you have fucked up and you should feel bad, you are about to hurt her in a completely unforgivable and selfish manner because you are an entitled, selfish person with zero moral compass

Not her, but isn't this kind of extreme? What is even a "relationship" anyway, you could easily end up in this situation without really meaning to.

>>7625168
>>7623489
>>7623477
>>7623040

You guys are going to hate me, but I just got back from her apartment..

We stayed up late watching movies and drinking wine. Gradually throughout the night we got closer to each other until she held my hand and nuzzled in super close. Felt so nice desu. Eventually when it got pretty late and the 2nd movie ended, she grabbed my legs and put them over hers and we just laid there being comfy and talking. Then she gave me this expectant look so I sat up and we kissed... a lot. It felt like there was electricity running up and down my spine it was soo good.

Like, I meant to tell her I was trans way before this, but I couldn't make myself ruin the moment then. It felt so amazing being next to her I just couldn't.. ugh.

Go ahead, do your worst. I don't even care anymore.

>>7626758
I've done the same before. Don't even sweat it. You can tell her when you're ready. Just make sure she hears it from you first, so it doesn't get complicated.

>>7626758
aww thats sweet. I hope it goes well for you.

>>7626758
Eh. Maybe she already knows. Even if she doesn't she might still be quite chill and not mind anyway. But at the same time she may - now that thing are a little more intimate, it's time to tell her. I think not doing so here could either be doing her a disservice or potentially damaging the relationship between you. She might be waiting for you to bring it up if she already knows, and questioning why you haven't already. Gl anon

>this thread
jesus christ lesbians are even more psychotic than trannies
are lesbians just women with monster levels of T or something?

>>7630469

You should check out the statistics for mental illness among lesbians. It's not pretty.

>>7617235
they always show their true man colors in the end lmao you trannies are a joke

>>7630469
Butch lesbians have higher T than most women, and trans women on HRT have lower T than most women, so the T difference in a relationship would be significant. That trans girl would probably get a black eye eventually.

So, do lesbians behave like this in secret when we're not around or something? Because I've never had a bad experience with them when it comes to platonic relationships at least. If I only ever experienced gay women through /lgbt/ I would think they were the absolute last group of people I should associate with.

>>7630555
Depends on a lot of factors. But no, most lesbians do not act like this and don't really care, don't let this site trick you into thinking straight men are a safer option than lesbians, because they're really not.

>>7630546

>tfw no mean abusive terf gf

Ugh.. I wanna be hurt.

>>7630546
i honestly want to get beaten up by a lesbian gf
abuse is one of my primary kinks
i'd just like them to also love me and not, like, call me a boy or anything

>>7630469
Yes. Lesbians have high T, mannish digit ratios, and many feel a need to "prove themselves". Combined with sky high rates of mental illness and less stigma on female violence, it can get very bad. The average young trans woman tends to be insecure and emotionally unstable but generally harmless, so a trans x lesbian relationship can be especially frightening.

Still less dangerous than dating cis men somehow.

>>7630546
why do i want this

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>>7630584
>>7630616
>>7630711
What is wrong with you perverts?

>>7630584
>>7630616
>>7630711
Wow, there are more trutrans on here than I thought....

>>7630718

I can't help it :( it just feels good to be abused by dominant cis women..

>>7630744
Have some dignity. You only feel that way because you see yourself as inferior for being trans, which is both terribly untrue, and an unattractive trait likely to drive people away.

>>7630718
it's not even a sexual kink or anything, not exclusively anyway
i'd just want to be a housewife for somebody who could hurt me whenever they wanted to
like, i just want to be romantically beaten up

it's not specifically by a -cis- girl, like i'd want a trans girl to do that to me too, but i just feel like abuse would be romantic and make me feel right

one of the only cis girls i talk to has similar feelings, and we both came from abusive childhoods, so i dunno

>>7630753

Well I don't go around advertising that or anything, but if it comes up when opening up about sex then of course I would.

>>7630753
>inferior for being trans
>untrue

Wow, it sounds like you wouldn't even call me ugly. What kind of dom are you?

>>7630811
>wanting somebody to bully you for being trans
do you even have dysphoria

>>7630784
I come from an abusive childhood as well, which is why I specifically try to avoid such things. Why do you want to relive that feeling of being unloved and worthless?

>>7630830
i don't want to feel unloved and worthless
it's a bit weird but i'd want to be abused romantically
like i'd want to love someone who has the authority to hurt me whenever they want
i want to feel inferior, but loved

>>7630853

This exactly desu..

my fantasy is to find someone that will regularly make me wear a leash and collar while we're having sex. It only ever happened one time and I got super emotional started to cry a little. I dunno why.

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>>7630815
Ah, but if I didn't have dysphoria, I wouldn't think I was ugly.

>>7630877
why would you want somebody to reinforce your dysphoria
i just don't get it

>>7630872
yeah i wouldn't mind being like... choked or collar'd or anything
i want somebody who can slap me around for no reason at all, just because they're having a bad day c:

If they have a nice personality, I feel affection for them the same way I do for an effeminate guy, but I don't think I could fall for them or love them the way I love women.

Transbians are the only TRUE lesbians. Cis scum lesbians are all privileged radfems. If you are a lesbian and you don't date a transbian to equalize your privilege, you are racist.

Also "trap" is problematic. It implies that trans women are anything but women.

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>>7630924
Post feet

>>7630903
>why would you want somebody to reinforce your dysphoria

Well to be honest, it was a shitpost. But I do want someone to accept that I'm not at the place where I need to be, and for them to at least encourage me (or even help me) afford the treatments I need to feel better.

But I'm a girl, and my partners are usually girls, and girls don't usually have money, sooo... Yeah I'm in a bit of a pickle. And most girls don't even know I'm trans at first, then after they find out, they don't understand why I want the surgeries that I want. "Your face? But I like you face..." etc. So I just want somebody down-to-earth, or somebody who has eyes.

>>7630924
what if they look like a girl?
is the knowledge that they're AMAB that bad?
or is it the dick?

>>7631026
If they looked female, I would treat them the same way I treat anybody. If they look like a girl I'd be attracted to, I'd act the same way I act around pretty girls, which is very shy. If they liked me (I don't think a girl has ever liked me), the dick would throw me off desu.

Probably 70/30 on the AMAB and dick. I think gender dysphoria can be very real, but I'm certain most transbians are men with fetishes and insecurities about being a 'man'. Lesbianism is too rare. Heterosexual men with sexual dysfunctions are not.

>>7631082
i have genital dysphoria, like mildly, but SRS seems scary and expensive, so i'll probably keep mine
i only -really- get sad if i specifically think about having a vagina, most of the time i can appreciate my equipment

when i first went trans i thought i wanted to be a stereotypical housewife, but once i got more comfortable into thinking of myself as female (as opposed to a caricature of a woman) i sort of settled into liking girls primarily

>>7631082

Why the heck did I type desu?? That was a typo/accident. I'm not a weeaboo.

>>7631108
t b h gets wordfiltered as " desu "
s m h gets worldfiltered as " baka "
f a m gets wordfiltered as " senpai "

>>7631108
>>7631116
the MtF helped you out, lesbian

now you have to let him/her eat your pussy as a reward

>>7631082
>I think gender dysphoria can be very real, but I'm certain most transbians are men with fetishes and insecurities about being a 'man'. Lesbianism is too rare.

There is some truth to this, but I think it's more like... They are actually bi or straight, but society has forced them to settle for other trans women, and accepting cis girls. If they were able to pass 100% as female, and there were no stigma, they would probably prefer straight men. I know that sounds like a meme ("they would all lose to the cock!"), but it just seems that way to me.

Not to say that there aren't some fetishists running around, or that trans women can't actually be lesbians.

>>7631102
See, IDK how to feel about that. I'm instinctively annoyed that you first wanted to be a stereotypical housewife. But then again, there are still a lot of women out there who like being a housewife, and most people don't really judge them for it.

Dick appreciation is just... nope for me. But don't kill yourself or chop it off either.

>>7631124
hush up, john b.

>>7631143

Huh. You think if MtFs could magically become 100% biologically female, they would go for straight men?

>>7631143
>If they were able to pass 100% as female, and there were no stigma, they would probably prefer straight men.
where have you been? cis men are extremely easy to hook, especially if you look online
if anything, it's cis lesbians who are hard to hook up with
transgirls are easier than lesbians but harder than men

>>7631148
well, the earliest point of transition you're still kind of figuring things out? i constructed really heavy-set ideas of masculinity while i was repressing, to try to force myself to be a man
i was still kind of /pol/ back then, i'm more left-leaning and, i think, independent from gender stereotypes now

so the first thing i did when i stopped repressing was assume i should align myself to my stereotype of a woman

yeah, i can see why
to be honest, i still find vag a bit weird? since starting hormones i've gotten more attracted to women, but still

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>>7631171
I don't know, maybe I'm just projecting. I know that when I first started transition, I thought I would just be a lesbian, and I really immersed myself in lesbian "culture".

But as I've gotten older, I've realized that my disinterest in men was fueled by the dynamic with them before, and now that the dynamic with men has almost completely reversed (which is kind of really shit in its own way, but better than being bullied by them I guess), I've come to accept that I'm actually bisexual, and there's a part of me that wants to have sex with a man. Right now I'm rushing to get SRS covered by my insurance for a bunch of reasons, and I have a lot of thoughts about it, like what if this just fuels the meme about lesbians and bi girls ("you'll just end up with a man in the end, you're making all of us real lesbians look bad"). It's really complicated, but I'm just trying to do what feels right to me.

>>7631173
I feel like that's the whole thing with trans/genderqueer ideology. I don't see how it isn't a matter of their perception of gender roles for most of them. I am far from femme, and there were a few years where I passed as a guy because idk, but I've never questioned my gender. I'm female. GQ/trans seems to me like, well, today I feel like I'm embodying (stereotypically female traits) so I must be more of a girl. Rather than just a man who has feminine traits.

>>7631171
They don't really have "female brains". There's similarities in structures, in the most talked about study, but it is not like they literally have a female brain. It makes sense that some mtfs would be attracted to women.

This is coming from someone who would never question someone's gender and doesn't see transition as some spook or degeneracy. People should live in a way that makes them happy and productive.

>>7631292
i think i've managed to isolate myself from gender roles a lot more, like i can see myself as 'female' but don't feel an obligation to make myself act out any particular stereotype

dysphoria isn't something that most cis people get. it's like, it's not about being this role or that, it's about having a strong hatred and unease for the feeling of being male.

there's plenty of different manifestations, like genital dysphoria, social dysphoria (how you're treated), dysphoria based on appearance, etc

>>7631243
Do you feel like you're nicer than you were before you transitioned? Because I would expect males to be more argumentative (esp on 4chan which I do not frequent often). If so, do you think it's a happier-with-yourself thing or a female gender thing?

I honestly hail from tumblr which (of the people I follow) most rally against transphobia and biphobia. I lean towards some more radfem beliefs. Bisexuals are.. irrelevant to me. I think if identifying as bisexual feels right for you, then excellent. Go for gold. No problem with trans or men identifying as bisexual.

But god, so many straight women these days think they're bi because they think girls are pretty or aesthetically pleasing, and it's all just a farce for them. I take more issue with straight women doing this than a trans woman like yourself.

>>7631317
Well, that's fine I suppose, makes sense. I just really don't like the general trend of how it's transphobic if you ignore transwoman's existence in the discussion of biological female health issues/reproductive rights, or that using vulva/uterus/vagina as symbols of womanhood is transphobic, or plain ol' not wanting to date someone with a dick as a lesbian is transphobic. Even all my fellow lesbian friends on tumblr!! I'm so tired of catering to dick.

>>7631322
Good, I think it's nice to break free of stereotypes (but acknowledge the ones you do have and shrug) no matter what.

Okay.. so I have definitely experienced dysphoria before. I had (still have) binders. I would hate to have big/prominent breasts. I still wear sports bras even now. I dunno man. I don't completely NOT understand confusing/ambiguous gender expression and the way people treat you.

>>7631243
Iktf, I've wrestled so much with sexuality due to transition.

When I was younger, I was mostly into guys. Then I had heterosexuality jammed down my throat and I wasn't allowed to have girls as platonic friends, so I dated girls. Then I dated a girl, and hated it, and transitioned in HS. Then I transitioned, and became way more interested in girls. I also became a bit manhating due to lifelong abuse by men. Then pressure started being applied on me to date men because that's just what girls do and I should be normal. And I'm super confused now.

I don't know what my "real" sexuality is under layers upon layers of conflicting socialization, societal expectation, trauma, etc.

I feel like if I like girls, it's wrong. I'd be a weirdo again after working so hard to be seen as normal, it'd make me "less real", it might be because I'm afraid of men, and I'd just be a weird straight guy.
If I like men, it's also wrong. I'm just a powerfaggot deep down, I'm just pretending to seem more normal, I'm doing it just because I'm afraid of lesbians, and I'm equating femininity to straightness.

>>7631463
I feel like most trans women would sympathize with you. Most women are impacted by gendered health issues, and no one should get in the way of discussing that. Vaginal agenesis is more common than being trans, yet women born with this condition don't get in the way of discussing womens' health issues. Plus most trans women hate having a penis, so most could probably understand not wanting a penis anywhere near you.

I feel like most trans women who do get touchy over these issues become hypersensitive because people try to invalidate their gender and humanity so frequently, they see threats even where none exist. Compassion is probably more effective when dealing with these sorts.

>>7631463
yeah, like, i don't want to use that as an excuse to not make myself look feminine and not dress feminine but i want to be the kind of woman that -i- want to be

if you've felt disgusted by having large breasts then, yeah, you may very well have had dysphoria
my dysphoria was honestly pretty subdued before i started transitioning. i'd have breakdowns now and then but i'd be able to push them back and say "i'm going to be a man because i have to"

then i broke and finally acknowledged i had to transition, now i'm a lot more sensitive to things like being expected to hang out with guys, my mother calling me her son, etc

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>>7631292
That's not what being trans is, and it pains me every time someone says this, because I empathize with them and understand why they think this (the way most trans women act and dress, the way some of them articulate their experience, etc).

Body/gender dysphoria is real and has nothing to do with gender roles. If I could choose never to wear my hair long, never to wear makeup, never to wear dresses or skirts, I would just present masc all the time, as long as I was still obviously female to everyone around me. But maybe I'm the only trans girl who feels this way? Maybe I'm the only tomboy here? I don't know.

Like pic related? Fucking breaks my heart. And I know it's more "our" fault than theirs. I wish there was a way to educate people and heal this rift, because trans women and cis women should be natural allies, but it only seems to be getting worse instead.

>>7631359
I don't know about "nicer". Maybe I'm less argumentative, it's more important that everyone is okay than for anyone to be "right" about something that doesn't really matter all that much.

Though I could kind of understand arguing about important political issues, like I have no time for /pol/tards, sexists, racists, or terfs, and I will chew them out if I have to. But that opens myself up to attacks ("real women aren't socialized to swear this much", while a cis woman in the same thread is swearing even more than me), so I have no idea what to really do about anything. Women are always judged for speaking "too much" or "too loudly", which makes it difficult to argue in person, especially when you're a lot smaller than the person who's trying to argue with you. I'd probably be too scared or too emotionally drained, and besides, there are usually manarchists and brocialists who are willing to do that "for" me.

2017 politics are just a minefield. I wish my voice meant something, but between transphobia online and plain old misogyny IRL, it really doesn't.

>>7631555
I could definitely extend more compassion to trans woman. I honestly don't involve myself with a lot of politics (gender or otherwise) despite being on tumblr, so whatever beliefs I hold are just personal biases/feelings that I developed and padded with tidbits I've read online. Thank you both (I think there's only two of you here replying to me?) for sharing with me and being patient.

>>7631606
Thankfully, I don't have large breasts but like.. I've definitely liked myself better at times when I felt like I could completely pass as a guy (in the past), or now when my breasts look small (I'm 30something B-cup idk, the shitty sports bras I get from walmart don't say).

Are you out to your friends and family? Did anything in particular make you break?

>>7631648
Why does it break your heart? Why do you think trans woman and cis woman would be natural allies?

>>7631648
i identify with tomboys too, desu
i think there's all sorts of dysphorias out there, and i would assume dysphoria as in not being able to fit into gender roles is as valid as any other

for example, my dysphoria pre-transition was mostly social, i wanted to be treated like a woman and be a woman, but i was able to appreciate my appearance while repressing

now that i'm out, my appearance really bothers me, but still

>>7631661
so you prefer being seen as male? or what? you prefer male social interactions over female?
it's honestly rather hard to relate, like i can latch onto dysphoria, but not the idea of wanting to be seen as male

i'm out to my grandparents, but that proved more harm than good, since now i have to deal with two more people who think gender identity = sexuality
it was meeting a few transwomen online which finally broke me. like, seeing them made me really, intensely jealous, like here they were, born male, but working through transition
i didn't know anything about how transitioning worked so they sort of guided me through it

i'd also like to add that tumblr isn't the best place to get an idea of transwomen
tumblr's notorious for attracting the extreme side of the left, the same way that 4chan is notorious for the extreme right
most transwomen, i think, just want to blend into the background and be cis

>>7631685
Not her but
>Why does it break your heart?
Hons are often creepy, and a lot of trans women feel similarly to the writer. Being a woman isn't a fetish, and it is offensive to many women (cis or trans) to listen to people who think it is.
>Why do you think trans woman and cis woman would be natural allies?
We are both women and we both face most of the same gender-based struggles. I feel all women are natural allies, and that's uncontroversial in feminist circles.

>>7631719
Basically this. It misrepresents trans women, made this AFAB person feel disenfranchised, left them with a warped view of trans women that will probably fuck them over in the future as gender relations become even more complicated, probably scares other AFABs into feeling disenfranchised, and makes trans women think that all cis women see them as disgusting freaks, driving them even further into their Internet hidey holes.

Experiences like these only further drive a wedge into a community that is already fractured.

>>7631698
Nope, I'm fine with being seen as female now. I found a comfort zone in femininity.

If I think about it now, that time in my life where I passed as a guy (for a bit over a year) was immediately after high school and being surrounded by many stereotypical representations of girls. I always felt like I was failing at that, I hated stupid make-up videos and all those behaviours/grooming stuff that was meant to attract guys, which, even though I've known I was gay since I was a child, still affected me. I must've realised along the way that I could present more femininely without the make-up/fashion, and it's a relief. I didn't hate presenting masculine, but it was very confusing for other people.

Sometimes I try to empathise with trans, like most people understand now that no one choose to be gay and make their life more difficult, and transitioning and taking hormones is the same, I guess.

Re: tumblr, probably not, don't actually follow any MtFs (but I have a couple of FtM friends). I just disagree with the 'discourse' I see my cis friends reblogging.

WHY ARE THE CAPTCHAS SO INTENSIVE.

>>7631849
that's good to hear. for MtF transgenders dysphoria usually starts at puberty, sometimes transgirls know they're female (or want to be female, i guess) since they're toddlers

women seem too heavily bombarded by stereotypical beauty, and that's just as harmful for transgenders as it is normal women, i think. with transgenders, they assimilate not looking like 'stereotypical women' with not passing, so you end up with a lot of pretty transgirls who think they're hideous because they're not the front page of a fashion magazine

transgenders are misconstrued a lot, i think, because there's a lot of people not even on HRT who try to present as female, some people who do it as a fetish, some transtrenders who don't even intend to transition. and, not to say they shouldn't transition, the fact that many transgender women wait until 40-50 to stop repressing... does not help us at all.

and ohh god, tumblr is insane. I made a shitpost comic blog with a few trans friends a while back, we followed random blogs... looked at the dashboard and I see a post with a ton of notes about how "daddy doms" are pedophiles

>>7631810
>>7631719

Do you guys think there are more radfems than libfems or vice versa? I think most women who are transphobic probably don't even identify as radfem, they're just uneducated on the topic in general.

>>7631896
Yup, I find make-up/instagram culture to be disturbing. 15 year old girls should be chilling and IDK climbing a tree, not learning how to do the smokey eye on youtube, and even like, young (underaged) effeminate gay guys are weirdly oversexualised from what I've seen. I don't know if the whole culture has gone insane or I'm just a conservative 20something year old lesbian.

Okay, so I guess you guys have the same problem with fetishists/crossdressers delegitimising your dysphoria/transition in the same way that I have a problem with 'bi' straight girls and lesbians who end up with men.

Yikes?? Is that something you have an opinion on?

>>7631966
yeah, women are getting ridiculously oversexed nowadays, like i met up a 12 year old girl once (i'd assumed she was 15 year old boy because she only mentioned her age / sex after like... a month) and she was on her second or third boyfriend :/

yeah, there's actual paranoia around fetishization, to the point where some transgirls will call any transgirl who isn't straight a fetishist. and those are, of course, the ones who lock themselves into typical "housewife" stereotypes

crossdressers are "okay", but non-transitioners shouldn't expect acceptance and pre-transitioners should have a little bit more self awareness. though some countries have the (barbaric) practice of forcing people to live as a "woman" for half a year before even giving them hormones, so in those situations it's understandable

kind of? i mean i'm not into "daddy" stuff specifically but you can't call something done between two consenting adults "pedophilia"... like, i dunno, you see screencaps of really stupid tumblr stuff all the time

>>7631966
>Do you guys think there are more radfems than libfems or vice versa?
Libfems/Third Wave for sure. Radfems/Second Wave seem to be increasingly rare and old. Most people who identify as radfems anymore just use it as cover to hate trans women, there are few who genuinely believe in it.
>I think most women who are transphobic probably don't even identify as radfem, they're just uneducated on the topic in general.
Probably, most cis people don't really give us much thought, they just go with their gut reaction if trans people are brought up. I think most are willing to change their minds if you talk to them.

>I don't know if the whole culture has gone insane or I'm just a conservative 20something year old lesbian.
I wonder this as well. The pressure to sexualize oneself comes from everywhere, and it used to make me super uncomfortable. Even my family encouraged me to be more sexual, wear more intense makeup (I usually just wear a natural look), and dress less modestly (I'm not dressed like a mormon either). People have asked me if I'm Catholic before because of my reluctance to engage in that sort of stuff. This started pretty young too, during my teenage years. This really doesn't feel like it should be normal?

>>7632034
I can't judge daddykink cuz I have my own mommy issues and have read many older/younger woman erotica/fanfiction, many with actual dubious consent.

Is it barbaric to force them to live as the gender they want to transition to before giving hormones? One of my FtM friends thinks hormones should be given to anyone who thinks they're trans, and that just sounds insane and dangerous to me.

>>7632107
I've browsed /r/gendercritical and at first I found it enlightening and intellectual, but as it has grown more popular, I find there to be more hateful comments than actual discussion/thought-provoking criticism.

I also come from a slightly more conservative background/ethnicity, so nobody pressures me to be more feminine or sexual thank fuck for that. Are we all regressing? People did use to marry off their 13 year olds after all. I'm never having kids but if I do, I honestly feel like I want to raise them in the woods.

>>7632189
i mean, yeah, i'm kind of into mommy stuff. not -too- much, but i like calling people "m little girl" or whatever, and i was one of the anons who said they'd want to be in a romantic abusive relationship

>Is it barbaric to force them to live as the gender they want to transition to before giving hormones?
yeah, because hormones (and often facial feminization surgery) are required to really look female
essentially, what you're asking them to do is spend half a year as a "man in drag"
they're not going to be recognized or accepted as a woman, they're just going to be treated as a joke and see themselves as a joke
i don't plan to girlmode until i'm at least six months into transition

>>7632226
When I was younger, that was one of my fantasies t b h. I don't want to be humiliated (sexually or otherwise), but I have a lot of mental health issues and very romantic ideas, so it just mixes weirdly? Like, I guess we would just put up with a lot/stay with someone who hurt us. And it used to feel like, man, they really do love us if they keep hurting us, although right now I can't work out the logic of that. I've never been in a real relationship, but I don't feel that way anymore. I'd be okay with a healthy/happy relationship (although it still seems impossible due to mental health problems).

Re: hormones, okay, that makes sense. It would be really humiliating.

>>7631719
Here's a tip: for your sanity and wellbeing, don't take it all so seriously.

Really. Don't fall for Internet or real life baiting. One sharp, concise, truthful comment can hit a lot harder then trying to explain something in a sound and academic manner. "Why does this matter so much to you? Who hurt you?" "What say do you have in my life and happiness?" "I'm just glad I don't have to live with so much vitriol. Must feel like poison in your veins." Stuff like that, said in an honest, polite way. It ruins it if you act dismissive or mean.

Don't let yourself be worn out by silly things like people's opinions.

>>7632189
I've been browsing r/gendercritical since its founding, and while it's gotten way worse since it's founding, it's always been pretty hit and miss. When they focus on stuff like sex work, porn, BDSM, sexualization, and womens only spaces, I agree with them and is glad someone actually shares my opinions. They also tend to be obviously uninformed about even the most basic trans issues though, which makes most of their analysis on trans people useless. They just assume and generalize, and dismiss medical opinions as a conspiracy against women. It's a shame desu.

>>7632291
The cis lesbian here, IDK if you were referring to my two questions as the internet baiting and it probably sounded like it, but I was genuinely just curious/wondering.

Of course, none of you have to answer or justify yourself to me, and I do appreciate your patience because if I was talking to a straight person who was like 'well... you're okay, but I don't think most homosexuals are legitimate', I would be pissed, so thank you. And I hope you don't feel like you have to talk nicely to me because I am a 'representative' of lesbians (ALTHOUGH DESU I FEEL THAT WAY a lot of the time - my closest friends aren't lesbians) and you need to obtain my approval or something. I don't agree with some stuff, but you guys do you and I hope you' find a way to be happy/content with yourselves and you find love just like any other person.

>>7632271
i'm still a virgin, so my ideas on things are kinda optimistic i guess, but yeah, i really want some loving female figure who would just... exert herself on me whenever she wanted to
i'm sure you can find a relationship, just have to find somebody similarly messed up? or someone willing to take care of you. shouldn't be that hard, and it's a lot easier for women to find partners imo

yeah, a lot of cis people don't really get transition and think it's a stage of a fetish or something
like, some people say you shouldn't be able to transition until 18, or even get testosterone blockers until 18, by which time you'll have a fully developed man's body which in most cases will mean you'll never 100% pass
it's like... why

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>>7632189
>tfw Trump is elected
>tfw r/gendercritical is becoming MORE popular

Guess it's time to go stealth.

>>7632189
>One of my FtM friends thinks hormones should be given to anyone who thinks they're trans, and that just sounds insane and dangerous to me.

Unless the person in question is underage, we are talking about consenting adults here, and there is a reason there is currently a shift away from mandatory real life tests pre-hrt, toward informed consent for anyone who wishes to undergo therapy. Unless someone is obviously delusional, they should be given the hormones they want, because they have a very firm understanding of what they need in most cases, and that is ignoring the various obstacles that trans people are going to face if they are forced into transitioning rather than going at it at their own pace, because that is what is happening.
With informed consent, people can choose when to come out, and not risk losing their income and social support right away. Real life tests make transwomen lose their jobs and families to gain access to life saving medication. So instead of killing themselves over not making progress, they kill themselves over being disenfranchised and unemployed.
I underwent 6 months of real life test and regret not self-medding sooner. It was slow torture and an absolute waste of time. In general, most trans people evaluate their transition by saying they do not regret it, but wish they had started soooner. RLT and withholding hrt on demand is medically unnecessary and unethical, and I'd even call it dehumanizing. Doctor knows best thinking is outdated.
But, that does not mean that doctors should push people to start hrt if they are on the fence, and instead encourage them to take their time mulling it over.

>>7632321
Yes, I also really liked finding a new (to me) perspective and insight into all those topics you mentioned, because - seriously, I'm terrible with critical thinking and serious political/topical stuff - but all the libfem discourse I've glanced over from tumblr/majority news spaces all seemed so.. wrong to me. 'Kill a man with your winged eyeliner!' is just ??????? Really makes feminism seem like a joke.

>>7632333
I feel like there should be something like a test to determine if a person should get hormones. What is the trans community's view on this? Transitioning early would help trans people pass, but what about detransitioners or young people who are just figuring out their gender expression?

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>>7632326
I'm cis les too (though lesgen wouldn't agree since I'm dating a trans woman).

I was referring to being bothered by things to the point where it emotionally wears on you. People confronting you in real life or the Internet.
I actually meant to reply to this comment:
>>7631648

But it's very general advice that could help anyone who deals with confrontation. I've found through experience that those kind of comments and questions get you to the root of the argument instead of going around in circles. "Yes, but why do you believe this? What was the thing that made you start thinking like this?" "If you take a step back, do you think that over generalizations about hypothetical situations really accomplishes anything?"

Things like that.

>>7632381
>What is the trans community's view on this? Transitioning early would help trans people pass, but what about detransitioners or young people who are just figuring out their gender expression?

Typically blockers are prescribed before hormones for super-young people, so that's safe and everything is reversible (although if you're on blockers but no estrogen for TOO long, you could end up super tall like Nicole Maines, since estrogen is what fuses the growth plates).

>>7632333
Also, I'm a virgin too.. an old one. I fantasised a lot about dominant women/non-consent, but those are just fantasies and I don't have a super high sex drive. I'd be okay with vanilla sex with someone my age who I love for the rest of my life.

>>7632381
transtrenderism can be an issue, since being trans has become "hip" in some parts of the internet
i think it's important to make sure the people have had those gender issues for at least a few years
if you start it but then decide to detransition, the effects are at least not as bad as being forced to go through most of your body's growth before starting hormones

to my knowledge, early transitioners end up with mental health statistics comparable to those of cis women, which is more than just a hint that transgenders need to be able to transition early. and that we need more effective systems of deciding whether or not they really -are- transgender

>>7615707
male:
dickgirls are straight, cuntboys are gay
female:
cuntboys are straight, dickgirls are gay

>>7632326
Oh, and in the situation you proposed, why should their opinion matter to you? Even if it does "what does legitimate mean to you?" and "why did you form that opinion?" and even "if they live their life happily and productively, why would it not be legitimate?"

Those questions should get you a solid response if they actually have a fully formed opinion, or they might get flustered. Works pretty well.

>>7632407
Not the person you're replying to. But aren't "transtrenders" an incredibly small minority mostly consisting of teenagers/young people? Better they're doing this than getting drunk and smashing shit. I don't see how it's really a big issue.

>>7632439
yeah, transtrenders and detransitioners are a minority, to my knowledge
there are probably more people that kill themselves due to peer pressure / unpassability than actual transtrenders

>>7632404
ah, that's a shame
i'm only 19, so young here. i'd date up to maybe 28 or so, i think? but if i were dating someone that much older i'd expect them to be dominant, for obvious reasons

i have a rather high libido, honestly. i'd need somebody with similar, probably.

>>7632359
Real life tests make trans woman lose their jobs? Why does that happen? Why would they not lose their jobs if they start medicating right away?

>>7632391
Okay, thank you for clarifying, and I should also ask myself those questions.

>>7632401
Okay, thank you. T b h, if you asked me now, I would have taken hormone blockers as a teenager, just because the idea of being an adult woman is strange to me. I still see myself as a 'girl' despite being in my mid-20s. I can pass for a high school senior sometimes, but not for long I think.


Do any of you know a nice, less..4channy forum/community where trans/questioning people can discuss this? That is not twitter or tumblr because those communities can be toxic, wild, echochambers. I have a Ft'M' friend who has been struggling for a couple of years on whether or not to transition. I think they don't want to give up the female thing because they identify with the oppression women face under men, but they feel a lot of gender/body dysphoria.

>>7632482
Okay, kiddo, you be careful though. I think the whole wanting to be in an abusive relationship thing sounds inticing until you're actually in one and it scars you for life. Especially if you end up with someone legitimately mentally unstable or insecure.

>>7632488
Your friend should do what makes them happy instead of worrying about things outside their control. They could be a good man who doesn't fit the stereotypes they are so against.

>>7632503
And I say this as someone who is legitimately mentally unstable and insecure, and has acted very inappropriately/dangerously to a 19 year old girl that I met last year and who I like very much. But I still get crazy possessive and it's just bad. (Yes! Despite being the lesbian with an older woman kink, PLOT TWIST, I am become the older woman. Fuck.)

>>7617235
>threatening women with sexualized violence
how revolutionary

>>7632439
18 year old ftm here, trendscum are a young group but an eerily common one
the united states transgender survey of 2015 backs up my intuition -- 1 in 150 americans 'identify as trans', skewed notably towards younger age groups, and a full 35% of those people are 'nonbinary'
61% of 'nonbinary' people in the survey were aged 18-24, and there were so many responses for '18' (more than all the other ages combined) to imply most were underage
trendscum most likely outnumber actual trans people, especially in the demographic slices that i and a lot of other trans guys are in
not many of them are the tumblr stereotype, though -- most trendscum have just barely enough self-awareness to not do that, though the younger ones tend to fall in that trap

>>7632503
>>7632512
yeah, maybe
too much of a virgin so i guess i get wrapped up in fantasy
i'm assuming the thing with the 19 year old girl didn't work very well?

i dunno though, i just really like the idea of being owned desu

>>7632503
This.

If you're strong you can learn from it and become a better person, but that takes time. If you're weak it can hurt you for s long time and ruin your trust in others or make you a codependent mess. Just awful.

>>7632560
Get into bdsm. Check out your local scene via fetlife. Talk to people who actually live that life.

>>7632552
I see. But I still don't understand why one should be concerned with them? They'll figure themselves out with time. Who isn't ashamed of some of the things they did when they were young? Do they influence your life in a real way, is what I'm wondering.

>>7632560
I had pretty intense, intricate rape fantasies when I was a teenager, so no judgement.

We're still really close friends, too close, and I pretty much blow up once a month out of insecurity even though we're not even dating. I still feel like we're beholden to each other and she just keeps forgiving me when she should be staying the fuck away. I wish she'd be happy and just stay away from me.

>>7632488
>Real life tests make trans woman lose their jobs? Why does that happen? Why would they not lose their jobs if they start medicating right away?


If you are further down the line in your transition, you are more likely to pass, and therefore less likely to face discrimination. If you are trans before hormones, it will be obvious to everyone if you wear gender appropriate clothes and demand to be gendered right. Even if your boss is not prejudiced, they will be incentivsed to fire you because having a man in a dress work for you is bad for business, whether you work a cash register or have to represent your company at important meetings. After they are a few months or years on hormones, and possibly have had surgery done, and did voice training, it will be easier for them to present as their gender. FtMs would eventually have no chance to not pass because T causes much more significant body changes. Most FtMs don't have trouble passing completely after a year on testosterone because they can grow beards and have a deep voice. Additionally, even if transwomen don't have an easy time passing, and some may never pass (same true for a few FtMs, but not as frequently), forcing them to undergo RLT would be detrimental because it would force them to quit their jobs NOW instead of giving them time to look for a different job on the side that won't be at risk because they are transitioning. So what happens is that gatekeepers put two guns to their head, one labelled "poverty" and one labelled "no transition," and then they force them to choose in the name of protecting them. Trans people have massive trouble finding and keeping jobs as is. The same applies to housing discrimination.

>>7632482
Yeah, people tend to want someone older to lead them, especially if they're inexperienced. I used to feel that way as well. I actually really do like dom/sub stuff, but the reality is that it takes work, planning, and really knowing your partner. You need to listen and pay attention to them. Being a dom can be hard work if you're doing it right.

I've found switch stuff is the best. You can lean naturally more towards dom or sub, but participating in both roles gives you a better perspective and can end up being amazing for both of you.

Yeah, get into your local bdsm scene. You need to learn a lot before you jump right in.

>>7632583
i'm not as into BDSM specifically, though
like i like abuse in a sexual context, but i'm mostly into the idea of just... a loving relationship, except with abuse sprinkled in??

>>7632603
desu my worst kink right now is wanting to die at the hands of a lover

it's good you're still friends with her, though. do you think she's interested in you at all? it doesn't seem like fantasies of abuse are that uncommon
one of the only cis girls i talk to regularly admitted that she has major abuse fantasies, like i do

>>7632617
i don't really like the idea of being a switch -that much- because it seems like it'd take away from being the extreme sub in a relationship, i dunno though
even relationships always turn me off a bit

like if i date a guy, i'd want it to be a feminine one, and i'd want to be a hard top

>>7632594
>Do they influence your life in a real way, is what I'm wondering
yes
i know, counting, 13 detransitioners -- that's only the people i knew when they were transitioned
the longest was transitioned for seven years (if we count the people i know because of their detransition, longest is 20 years)
i have noted many of them have traits in common, and even the non-trendscum ones tend to have been pretty into queer culture and the like
i have also noted many of them are really, really fucking angry about the idea of transition
i see no reason this won't get worse

>>7632659
>tfw us real trans people are going to pay for the mistakes of gullible SJWs
Trannies are like Jews, our suffering is endless.

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>>7632659
>tfw the inevitable blowback is coming

Haha but for real this time.

>>7632640
See, you really don't know about the bdsm scene then, because exactly what you describe is very common in it. Thera a wide range of interests in the scene, but what you're saying is one of the most common things. I'm giving you the info to find what you want, but it's up to you to do it.

>>7632659
But how does that actually influence you? They sound like complete dumdums. Are you saying it was like "transition didn't work for me therefore it can't work for anyone"? That's ridiculous, but I can see some very self centered people believing that. 17 is a very precise number as well.

>>7632753
You're joking, but some idiot is going to take that kind of fearmongering seriously.

>>7632733
>tfw can't use 6 million dead trannies to get sympathy from the cisim
>>7633055
>Are you saying it was like "transition didn't work for me therefore it can't work for anyone"? That's ridiculous, but I can see some very self centered people believing that
yes, and people as a species are very self-centered
the problem is that we don't have a concerningly large number of detransitioners who nonetheless have real concerns but are not generally hateful, we have a large number who think they're that but are actually just pissed off that nobody stopped them from fucking themselves over and so want to fuck over everyone else

>>7633066
Yeah I don't seriously think there will be a huge blowback because of detransitioning trenders, really there are bigger things to worry about. Like how the public still thinks we're all hons (things like I Am Cait and Transparent really aren't helping), or how FFS and VFS still aren't covered by insurance, etc. I don't know much about electro because I didn't need it (muh privilege), but apparently not even that's covered? Stupid.

Really I think we'll eventually mellow out and find our "niche" in society, it will take a decade or two but we'll get there. Early transition will be more normalized, trans women will ease up about their "flaws" as they start to be seen as more endearing, there will be more lesbians (or even straight guys) willing to date us, and we'll eventually be just like the gays: insufferably normal.

>>7633095
I'm sorry you deal with enough self centered people that you have that view of humanity. Maybe I've just been lucky or subconsciously surrounded myself with genuine, kind people who aren't willing to push their views onto other people.

It sucks that a good amount of transitioning people have incredibly low self esteem. It's very easy to over value the opinions and ideas of others in that kind of mindset, even though it's unnecessary and unhealthy.

Not at all. barf.

>>7633037
really? i'd always thought of the BDSM community as being more a one off fetish thing
i'll have to look into that, though i want to be farther into my transition so that i can actually be comfortable with myself sexually