Female Privelage? How do mtfs feel about?

>>7609301
OP I also mean what are you opinions in cis female privilege?

I mean people hold doors open for me now which is kind of flattering but idk if being surrounded by beta orbiters really makes life easier in any significant way

"So last night I heard a transwoman speaking at an event about people getting over tough times in their lives. The transwoman was talking about the first time they felt the stirrings that later on would become their gender confusion – and it was when they tried on a dress at their friend’s house. This person talked about the dress in such sexual terms – the feel of the satin on their thighs, the way they looked in the mirror, imagining breasts to fill out the top. Then the person went on to talk about how they used to get turned on by wearing their girlfriend’s panties, and how sad they were that their girlfriend didn’t get turned on seeing them in the panties. They talked about masturbating to a kind of anime that featured people with two different sets of genitalia, and in fact, masturbating to the idea of femininity was a recurring theme during the whole monolog. They talked about wanting to wear makeup and wanting to wear women’s clothes – especially panties and bras – in such warm tones that I have expected them to get an erection on stage.
Meanwhile, I sat in the audience, thinking about how I’d been leered at by a weirdo on the train that night; how I was currently suffering from intense menstrual cramps that I wasn’t socially allowed to speak of; how I’d recently lost a client because when I was assigned to him through my company he said he wanted to only work with a male; how I’d recently been shut out of a comedy event because an organizer legitimately believes that women aren’t funny.
And here this person was talking about wanting to wear women’s silky panties and putting on winged eyeliner as if it was the sum total of womanhood, as if it was totally ok to take on that “fun” stuff, and know that you’ll never, as an obviously male bodied person, have to deal with the other stuff.
I’m a compassionate person, but I had to sit on my hands so that people couldn’t see me balling my hands up into fists."

>>7609529
>>7609587
Yeah both good points. Thanks anons.

I mean I'm definitely not arguing it doesn't suck I'm just interested in the, kind of cross comparison so this is all great.

>>7609587
AGPs give the rest of us a bad name, I'm sorry for you anon.

also comedy event? are you a comedian?

also where do you work, because depending on that it might explain why the client wanted to be with a man.

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Let me talk a little about female privilege as I have seen/ experienced it in a non-AGP sense.

First up.
>>7609587
Sorry femanon, unfortunately there are a lot of people in the transgender movement that I wouldn't want anything to do with. Just like I am sure you know a lot of women you wouldn't want anything to do with. Crappy people exist everywhere unfortunately. I hope to give you a bit of an idea what a more down to earth transwoman thinks.

Bit about me to help give context. I am 26, about 16 months in and pass pretty well, and have an amazing cis bisexual feminist girlfriend who has been through all the shittiest parts of the female experience. (Multiple cases of Sexual abuse, did armature modeling before neuroscience, and grew up in a small rural town where sexism is alive and well) I won't be talking about her experience though, I just want you to know that I understand.

So much like male privilege most of the benefits "exist in contrast". So they are things that are more noticeable after living as a male.

The biggest aspect of female privilege is trust. Women are inherently more trustworthy than men. (However within certain fields men are more trustworthy due to sexism. Female mechanics are less trusted than men for example.) This is especially true for other women. If a random dude approaches a female stranger and makes a request or trys to talk with them it will be frowned upon most of the time.

As a woman I can approach other women (if I wanted) and make idle chit chit and no one really cares, and it is in fact often welcomed.

This works the other way too. People approach women more often. People will talk to me in all sorts of places, like at the grocery store both men and women seem to talk to me now when before no one really did.

Visibility is another factor. You are inherently more visible as a woman. People of both sexes notice you. (again when I was living as a man I felt invisible) Character limit. part one end..

>>7609809
Thanks anon this is all super interesting do please keep it coming

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>>7609587
>Meanwhile, I sat in the audience, thinking about how I’d been leered at by a weirdo on the train that night; how I was currently suffering from intense menstrual cramps that I wasn’t socially allowed to speak of; how I’d recently lost a client because when I was assigned to him through my company he said he wanted to only work with a male; how I’d recently been shut out of a comedy event because an organizer legitimately believes that women aren’t funny.
>And here this person was talking about wanting to wear women’s silky panties and putting on winged eyeliner as if it was the sum total of womanhood, as if it was totally ok to take on that “fun” stuff, and know that you’ll never, as an obviously male bodied person, have to deal with the other stuff.
I’m a compassionate person, but I had to sit on my hands so that people couldn’t see me balling my hands up into fists."

Well to be fair, I'm a trans woman and I'd feel the exact same way if I had to listen to some AGP talk about their "experience" as a "woman", I'd just leave the auditorium and do something else, or look down at my phone the whole time.

The fact is, "female privilege" doesn't really exist. There are some things that become easier as a woman, but it's counterbalanced by so much shit, especially from men, that I would never call it "privilege". It's a different experience, but it's certainly not "easy mode", it's more like "normal mode" with its own benefits and challenges.

>>7609809
>part two

Within IT for example, companies go OUT OF THEIR WAY! To hire women specifically. (within said IT companies we often face sexism, such as "Women's Learn Beginner Code" day, at a software company.... Like clearly all the women knew enough code to get a job here, and after hours code, and bake sale fundraiser.... I don't even.)

Just not having to do typically male roles unless you want to is in some way a privilege. Like if I am hanging out at a camp site no one asks me to cut firewood. (I like cutting firewood so I usually volunteer anyway, but you get the picture) You still have the option to do those things but it isn't forced upon you like a manual labor mule.

The added attention women get is both a blessing and a curse depending on who it is coming from. Really annoying 'dudebros' at clubs. Terrible. Most other situations it is appreciated.

People offer to help you with things all the time. This is also blessing and a curse. Sometimes the help is genuinely needed. However, if I go to bestbuy or something I don't need people who know less than I do trying to "help" me pick out computer components. Or at music stores people acting like I can only possibly be interested in acoustic guitars, and know nothing about them etc. Getting talked down to happens, BUT the flip side is that if you ARE capable then it makes your skill/knowledge more potent. IE Generic dude makes a youtube channel playing guitar at a intermediate level. Not much really happens.

Generic woman makes a youtube channel playing guitar at an intermediate level, and gets a lot more views/subs. (Same goes for gaming, and other topics. Art is a coin toss because male master syndrome etc.)

To talk a little bit about clothes (this doesn't totally apply to transwomen) but Cis women can wear men's or womens clothes and society doesn't care. If a girl wears mens clothes she is a tomboy, if a man wears womens clothes he is a gross fetishist.
>End part 2

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>>7609865
Meant to use this image with the previous post. (Notice how they call ST Vincent a "singer" even though the article is about her signature guitar, because she is a guitar player....

Women are also just less negatively viewed the scene of a crime. People trust women. (I know I say this a lot but it is key) So when crimes happen women are the last people that get suspected. Happens in TV, all the time and while in real life the crackdown is a little harder, it is still there.

Women are more likely to get out of speeding tickets etc. You can play to peoples expectations. (Much of female privilege involves inverting and exploiting sexism to work our in their favor.)

Statically women make up a much larger portion of the demographic of people going to university and getting degrees etc. Despite this people still don't see women as intelligent as men, and they have to do more to "Prove their intelligence" my gf complains about the struggles of being a woman in a high science filed like neruo science all the time. She does work harder for less recognition a lot of the time.

Now this on the face of it is a negative. However, women can "Play Dumb" and learn a lot about things from people. I could never pull off playing dumb before, but since people are always trying to "show me" things, and explain things to me (since there is no way I would understand right?) I get to play dumb and a lot of the time I DO learn some small bit of additive information. OR I play dumb and am not seen as a threat in their field only to pull off some crazy work that gets me noticed etc.

Ending short so I can make the next point in the same message.
>End part 3

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>>7609925
>part 4
Like if your into that shit you can let dudes buy you drinks at clubs etc. But as someone who's girlfriend was date raped before I can tell you that if the drink isn't sealed, and you didn't watch them make it in front of you, it is 100% not worth it for you to accept. Also if a dude is coming up to you thinking they can BUY you with drink and bs then exploit the shit out of that asshole.

However, don't lead someone genuine on. That is all kinds of dick move.

The holding doors open for you shit is actually kind of nice. However, I still hold open doors for dudes, and I get the strangest looks sometimes. I always used to say I held the door for anyway, when women used to call me out for thinking they are weak or some shit. I was just being polite and still am.

I think that much of female privilege is overlooked in the same way male privilege is. You don't realize it until you have something to contrast it with.

Anyway I have to get back to work.... WFH is the devil. :P anyway, that should give you an idea.

>>7610056
Thanks a lot anon all this was great.

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>>7609301
>m'females are so privileged life is unfair

>>7610056
>But as someone who's girlfriend was date raped before I can tell you that if the drink isn't sealed, and you didn't watch them make it in front of you, it is 100% not worth it for you to accept.

Wow. I've accepted so many drinks from people that I didn't technically see them get, like I didn't see it from the moment it was made, holy shit. And I'm usually really paranoid about this kind of stuff, after some bad experiences with guys. Thanks so much anon, something bad might have happened.

>>7610086
It's more like the attractive and charismatic are privileged, which makes sense. Everyone likes attractive people. Everyone likes a charming person. They get free shit and shmooz way more effectively. I say this as someone who used to be fat and anxious, and am now fit and charming. It's a world of difference.

Sure, there are some general differences in how people treat others based on gender, but you can overcome that with top tier social skills.

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>>7609925
Sorry to derail, Lol I wonder if Cara poster knows that, Cara dated St Vincent (Annie Clark)

>>7610488
Yes she knows, she talks about how lesbians are pedophiles every so often.

>>7609301
nah i feel less privileged now for sure

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>>7610488
Most of the points mentioned above were the same that I've made, that ultimately all toxic masculinity and toxic femininity is borne out of female protectionism.

On a side note my brother goes to the same music school St. Vincent went to.

>>7610556
Really? How so, anon?

>>7610583
That's neat. Can I ask what you mean by female protectionism? I know I could just google it I just think you probably have something fairly specific in mind when you say that and I'm quite keen to know what it is. Thanks for replying thus far

>>7609862
>The fact is, "male privilege" doesn't really exist. There are some things that become easier as a man, but it's counterbalanced by so much shit, especially from women, that I would never call it "privilege". It's a different experience, but it's certainly not "easy mode", it's more like "normal mode" with its own benefits and challenges.

>>7610583
>yfw you are doomed to be a hon based on that pic

yeah i agree with what you said though anon

>>7610583
lol she went ( and later dropped out of Berkley) props to your bro

>>7610634
So you'd definitely say you get more shit from men than women?

>>7610056
>I can tell you that if the drink isn't sealed, and you didn't watch them make it in front of you, it is 100% not worth it for you to accept
i've made this mistake i remember being rimmed but not if he stuck it in my boipucci

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>ITT: A bunch of hons sit around and deny that female privilege is a thing.

>Hon: I transitioned in my 40s and I've never experienced female privilege. Female privilege must not exist!

You don't experience female privilege because no one sees you hons as female!

>>7610792
>>7610118
>But as someone who's girlfriend was date raped before I can tell you that if the drink isn't sealed, and you didn't watch them make it in front of you, it is 100% not worth it for you to accept.

I am the person who wrote the green text. While it is horrible that it happened to my girlfriend, and I didn't think me saying this was rocket science, I am glad I made the PSA. With any luck it can help some people stay safe hopefully!

Some people out there are literal human garbage and you often don't find out till it is too late! Stay safe folks!

>>7610583
>protecting women is bad

You sound like the biggest faggot right now.

>>7611101
Try getting stalked by some creep who you refused to have sex with once, I wish we could show you guys what it's actually like to be perceived as female, it's shit.

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>>7611123
Female protectionism is a culture borne out of the idea that the life of a woman ultimately surrounds itself around childbirth and thus results in the need for "preservation". While that doesn't take place literally nowadays it still results, ironically, in events like >>7611112 and >>7611126 due to the masculine and feminine posturing that is born around that culture.

>>7610607
men invading my personal space for the sole reason i am a woman and they are men

>>7609301
I think you are confusing /lgbt/ with /b/ and /r9k/. Women having an easy mode is just a meme and I literally have never read it on here.

>>7611404
I've seen a fair few mentions of it in gay and mtf generals.

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>>7609301

Of course it's all true.
Women just have to sit around all day eating bon-bons and shopping for clothes while their man works.
Pussy power controls all men and makes the life of a woman a breeze!

>>7609301
>Do you think that's true?
My personal experiences confirm that it is true.

>What've your experiences been?
People are kinder to me, I can make friends more easily, I can be as lewd as I want without being seen as creepy, hold doors for me, smile at me, buy me things without asking, I skip lines at clubs and get in for free, etc.

>Is it as significant as male privilege?
Well I live in a very liberal area where people try to be as progressive as possible, so I'm not so sure if male privilege is that much of thing anymore where I currently am. Male privilege doesn't appear in my immediate work environment, which is female dominated, despite being a traditionally "masculine field".

>Less or more?
See the above.

>>7611164
Please kill yourself cancerposter.

>>7611502
this has been my experience as well.

having to deal with men catcalling and hitting on you isn't much more than a minor inconvenience imo, especially when I usually avoid it happening when my bf is present. I don't feel like I'm at any kind of disadvantage when it comes to career either.
from my experiences the pressures put on women don't compare at all to those put on men

>>7611164
You sound jealous of real women. Real women being people who can bare children.

>>7611164
You just sound jealous that men want to protect real women because it's a biological imperative.

There's no need to protect trannies. They're an evolutionary dead end anyway.

>>7611789
>cis women are only respected because they can pop out babies

Lol, men are trash

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>>7611777
>bare children

the word is "bear" and it means "to carry"

>>7609529
People already do this for me in boymode? It's just a polite gesture.

>>7611894
>in boymode

Anon... They can tell....

It depends on what you want, and what kind of person you are. I'm generally social and friendly, I'm more emotional and sensitive, I'm passive, I like having help, etc. I fit the socially expected role of a woman pretty well, and for me being male was pure suffering. Another person might be more closed off, standoffish, aggressive, independent, and so on, and despise every moment of being seen as a woman. For me being female is a privilege, for them it wouldn't be.

I think these gender wars are stupid and people should realize different genders suit people differently, rather than there being some omnipresent [gender] privilege.

>>7611446
Could have just said gay general

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>>7611839
Still waiting on your counter-argument.

Please, refute my claim!

>>7611831
I never made that claim.

My claim was that MtF trannies cannot bear children.

>>7611907
Lol

After reading and relating with more of these posts, I'm wondering how many others here were already treated like this before transitioning?

>>7611907
What do you mean?

>>7611919
This kind of makes sense. My learning, and working style is much more typical of women. I've worked in the more men's style teams in school or at work and have hated it by comparison.

>>7611977
They can, and should, adopt if they are mentally capable of raising children and have maternal instincts.

>>7611977
If you're saying mtfs have no value to men and only state that they can't get pregnant as their only flaw, well...

That is your claim paraphrased, or you're just shit at arguing and don't mean what you say.

>>7612026
Please tell me what you mean by "men's styles" and "women's style".

>>7612026
>I've worked in the more men's style teams in school or at work and have hated it by comparison.
Same. I got one job without realizing it was a 95% male workplace, never again.

School is nice though because you can self select groups.

>>7612026
I think it was just a joke lol

But like honestly I just said boy mode because I don't know how else to call it while knowing I'm dealing with gender dysphoria but still questioning if transitioning is right for me. So I'm keeping it to myself right now while I think things through. I mean if society is already really kind to me and treats me more or less like a girl already then I feel like transitioning might make me go from being a cute guy to a creepy woman. Also I really like kids and everyone trusts me with their kids but I don't want to have to have surgeries to pass or worry about all the trans things. Right now most of my worries are just about aging like a man or for example as I get older will people stop treating me this way because I still look 16 as well, and then will they expect me to act like a man and I won't know how, etc.

>>7612115
>I mean if society is already really kind to me and treats me more or less like a girl already then I feel like transitioning might make me go from being a cute guy to a creepy woman.

I feel the same. I've been on hrt for a few years and it's bought me years of time. Thank god.

>>7612072
The topics of conversation, and jokes. The communication styles. Communication in the very male workplace was the worst. It was nonexistent. Lack of, and unwillingness to clarify their vague as shit notes and instructions without getting irritated and pissy. Stereotypical stuff really. I realized I felt the same way on a holiday with my dad and brother one time without my mom there, and around friends when there weren't any girls in the group, and that it was more of a gender thing than an asshole thing. Of course, there are exceptions, but generally speaking.

>>7611126
Yeah... I've had that happen just twice.
Whats even better is when people assume that because you're a trans woman that you have lower standards("I'm treating you almost like a real human, obviously this is the best you're ever going to get"), so guys that wouldn't be in your league if you were cis, get waaay more aggressive. Imagine nice guy mode turned up to 11.
t. apparently a moderately attractive trans woman

>>7611919
This all the way. Mandatory "As a..." cis female, I don't care and avoid using any advantage I may inherently have.
For me being male holds a relatively higher struggle, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. It builds character. There's a huge sense of honor and nobility in the male world, which I find appealing. Women on the other hand are basically taught nothing but to stand defenseless and prettily until a handsome man shows up to do all the job for you.

For some that's ideal, for me it's not. In the end, as long as you live in a 1st world, everything is pretty much balanced out and what you call a privilege is nothing but and opinion that simply reflects your wants, likes and needs.

MtF, 26 yrs old 15mo HRT

Some things are better and some things are worse. I'm not going to really talk much about whether or not there's any gendered privilege because I just don't tend to worry about it at all.

On the positive end of things, women will talk to me more readily and easily now which eases a lot of my social pain. I've never been able to relate to the way men typically talk and socialize. Lots of broad strokes there I know but I think most people here know what I mean by that. People smile at me more than they used to. I mean that's not a whole lot because I only sometimes pass and even then not for more than a couple of minutes unless they're one of those people that are easy to talk to and were taught that scrutinizing strangers hardcore is rude like I was.

I can talk to my female co-workers about things and they generally just seem to forget I'm trans and go right ahead with things anyway, which again makes me feel so good to be able to carry the conversation.

People in general aren't threatened by me anymore, which is another one of those pains that's finally being relieved. I never wanted people to feel like I was threatening or dangerous, it's just the way I looked and I feel like there's a lot of men who would rather not be looked at like they're automatically a predator ready to pounce. I imagine they're just as frustrated as I was. But then, I know why the stereotype is there because I run into a lot of men who give me looks that are way too intense and kind of frightening. Probably because I don't pass under scrutiny. I don't know.

The holding doors thing is only different in that women will hold doors for me now, whereas I had them let go in my face a lot in the past. It's kinda sexist so I make it a point to not be like that and try to hold doors for people. Definitely see surprise there sometimes.

Also, women will compliment me on my clothes or my hair or my complexion now. But compliments from men have pretty much disappeared. Pt1

>>7619956
A FtM I know has had the inverse happen, where he gets enthusiastic YEAH DUDE ROCK IT compliments from men but women rarely compliment or even talk to him. So there's that.

On the negative side of things, I get creepy comments from old men that are just fucking gross. I mean whatever, it doesn't bother me that much and this sort of thing only ever happens when I'm alone.

I get talked down to a lot more, even from other women, which is kind of awkward given that I'm 6'2". I'll legit get my opinion/advice ignored and the exact same question repeated to my co-worker next to me (cisgirl).

Another interesting thing, people don't move out of my way anymore when I'm walking in crowded areas. I used to be able to part people like the sea, not so anymore.

I've had a guy follow me to the restroom before, creepy as fuck.

I don't have as much experiences and most of them are probably tainted by me being an mostly unpassing transwoman.

>>7609587
Is this a passage from something? Sounds like a terf wrote this as to sanctify womanhood further. Idk.

>>7611126
I've been followed/stalked/groped as a girl but I've also been mugged and randomly assaulted as a guy, I prefer the creepy guys, as I've yet to be beaten up as a girl, it's mostly all verbal stuff from guys if your a girl. much safer.