Anyone else was a massive SJW before transitioning? I used to

>>7541242
It was the opposite for me. I was trying to repress (unconsciously perhaps) and as a result became an alt right, redpilled, anti feminist MRA.

>>7541242
>>7541278
I'm anti-feminist/MRA, if I transition will that change?

>>7541748
If you're MRA solely because of repressing, then perhaps. Otherwise, it depends on your experiences as a woman.

I'm >>7541278 and while I'm still somewhat anti-feminist (I've always seen 3rd wave feminism as incredibly hypocritical), I'm now way more in-tune with the female experience. And without the resentment, bitterness, and jealousy that comes with repression, my views have softened considerably.

>>7541810
>If you're MRA solely because of repressing, then perhaps.
Pretty sure it isn't, just my experiences as male.

What are your views now? What has the female experience taught you?

I'm slightly more liberal than I was before, but I think it's just me getting older and caring about issues more and researching things.

>>7541833
>What are your views now?
Honestly, they're still pretty similar. I still don't agree with modern feminism, and I hate its gynocentricity and claiming everything is a female issue, while ignoring male issues. I still think males get a lot less privilege than females. People are so much kinder, and the world so much softer, when you're a girl. It's crazy.

But at the same time, there are downsides to being a woman. I'm not sure if it's necessarily caused by male privilege, but these are some observations.

I've been experiencing sexual harassment and unwanted advances as a female (both in real life and online). As a guy, I was just simply ignored, which I liked better. I can also noticeably feel men talking over me a lot more often than before. Walking alone at night is also a much scarier experience.

I'd say I ultimately became a lot more liberal than I was before transition, though.

>>7541977
>I've been experiencing sexual harassment and unwanted advances as a female
What were you wearing?

>(both in real life and online).
How can you get unwanted advances online, just turn off the computer.

>>7541977
>I still think males get a lot less privilege than females. People are so much kinder, and the world so much softer, when you're a girl. It's crazy.
Why couldn't I have been born a girl?

>>7541242
Politically I'm about the same. Perhaps less vocal about my political leanings in public than I used to be, tho, because people rarely take women seriously on political topics.

I was a left-leaning pacifist back then, and still am. But I'm altogether more interested in being educated about history than having an opinion on current events

>>7541977
tldr when you have more experience you stop being a radical and realize everyone has their problems
too bad many femtards never get out of their bubbles and never want to see the other side

>>7547416
>Why couldn't I have been born a girl?
Because then you would have been raised female and would be oblivious to your privilege and never think thoughts like what it would be like to be the other sex.

I'm a big anti-SJW but enforced gender roles are pure cancer

>>7547730
I agree but I'm just not willing to burst any veins over it. Gender roles are quite easy to challenge if you really want to.

>>7547730
This. Hopefully the MRM grows and manages to succeed.

No I had the opposite thing used to be a misogynistic MRA who thought women have I easy then I tried becoming one and realized most things feminists have been saying are actually true and my true enemy is whoever perpetuates the patriarchy. Now I'm somewhat of an SJW

>>7541242
Yeah. I was strongly into those ideas, even through the first year of transition.

>>7548157
>used to be a misogynistic MRA who thought women have I easy then I tried becoming one and realized most things feminists have been saying are actually true
what the fuck

>>7548239
I know right, I wasn't like full on woman-hating before but I spouted basic MRA memes and despised most of feminism for "ruining" the genders or whatever

To be honest I still think libfem is pretty wack but I've found that GC ideas fit everything I've disliked about socialization (from both perspectives). I think that tearing down gendered socialization is the key to emancipation from this shitty system of enforced behaviour

>>7548239
>I think that tearing down gendered socialization is the key to emancipation from this shitty system of enforced behaviour
me too but what were feminists right about? and mras wrong on?

>>7548329
Feminists were right about women being continuously conditioned away from positions of power/things that require technical prowess. Also more general things like having to take extra caution from sexual attention, being cornered into the prude/whore dichotomy, getting talked over/ignored/treated like you're incompetent

MRAs aren't wrong on everything, recognizing the disparities in the legal system is one of the key advantages women have. I think they are more wrong in general in thinking that "patriarchy doesn't exist anymore" and extrapolating their own status and thinking into that of most men.

I actually kinda synthesize some ideas from both sides, but I would say that currently my closest allies are the GC radfems

I always dreamed of working towards a post-gender society, the same way normies look forward to a post-racial world. Turns out that was dysphoria.

>>7548299
Is it a shitty system? It works for most people. Life is so messy that any system that works for most is all we can ask for.

>>7548366
Yeah it's shitty for most, only good for men at the top. Just because most manage to work into it doesn't mean it's good just like "most people can make it under capitalism" doesn't make it a worthwhile system.
Saying that "it just werks" isn't justification for perpetuating it, at most it's reason to slow progression to a pace that is reasonable to more people.

>>7548354
>Feminists were right about women being continuously conditioned away from positions of power/things that require technical prowess.
but feminism isn't the only thing that says that. i bet most mras will. feminism is the demand for special treatment and quotas to somehow balance it, even though that doesn't make women better at those things, worse even, and makes the view that women into them aren't as good true, since they didn't get there by skill.

>MRAs aren't wrong on everything, recognizing the disparities in the legal system is one of the key advantages women have.
what are the others? what do the mras wrongly think are disparities?

>I actually kinda synthesize some ideas from both sides, but I would say that currently my closest allies are the GC radfems
but who stands up for what both sides have right? being gender critical against the stuff that hurts men as well as what hurts women?

>>7548366
>It works for most people.
it doesn't? women are unhappy, men are unhappy. it only benefits men who are in power and women who get feminism's special treatment. not most men and women.

>>7548406
>i bet most mras will
That hasn't been my experience, but then again I didn't get involved with the communities aside from posting memes on 4chan and reddit

Obviously I don't really think quotas are a good idea but they are somewhat of a band-aid solution. Tackling the issue at the fundamental points will negate any need for them

>what are the others? what do the mras wrongly think are disparities?
I think that in general the MRA attitude of "women can get easy sex" and "women have high SMV" is a pretty myopic view of both sexuality and the asymmetrical perception of libido, it doesn't provide much room for improvement short of sexually repressing female's sexuality again.
More fundamentally my issue with MRAs is that a lot of time they'll drop the whole notion of seeking value and stick strictly to "facts" of evolution and intra/intersexual competition, a tactic that is reminiscent of the justifiers of racism as well as capitalism, creating this reified image of inevitable "eternal" relations and usually seeking a reactionary return to a percieved past golden age. I think that the biggest issue with MRAs (that I've experienced) is that they effectively define themselves in opposition to feminism as opposed to being the champions of the male condition, spending entirely too much time attacking really easy feminist strawmans and making fun of reddit/tumblr
I've definitely known a few MRAs who have been much more reasonable and accommodating of feminist goals but they're also the ones more reluctant to label themselves as such.

>but who stands up for what both sides have right? being gender critical against the stuff that hurts men as well as what hurts women?
Yes precisely, at least that's how I see it. I think that a lot of radfems sorta go too far in the other direction and somewhat miss the marks, and ideally I see a synthesis of MRA/feminism ideas under the banner of egalitarian gender-criticism

>>7548354
>Feminists were right about women being continuously conditioned away from positions of power/things that require technical prowess

Citation needed

>>7548474
what would mras be like if they were champions of the male condition like they should be?

how did transition help you figure out where mras were going wrong?

>and ideally I see a synthesis of MRA/feminism ideas under the banner of egalitarian gender-criticism
really wish this existed now.

>>7548474
Rape hysteria which is enabled by feminists, rape statistics lies, the gender wage gap lie, female bias in education methods, lack of support for male victims of anything, all supported by your wonderful feminist buddies.

>>7548520
There aren't concrete statistics on this because it happens through a million tiny instances of socialization throughout a lifetime. I recommend you read through this document
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-wVAlYtyr42T0hlb1M5TEtQR0JDbGtLNFU2MWI5ODlfb2tJ/view

>>7548715
>French anarchist shit written by a feminist
Not exactly impartial.

Feminism is the equality of both genders, but modern day has shifted that feminism is not a man hating culture and believes in dumb patriarchy systems and the wage gap. In western civilizations, there is no wage gap, there is no rape culture, and there is no patriarchy system. If you want equal right of men and women it should be called egalitarianism, not feminism.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5EZR2oNFSBk
i cant find the original clip from this but go to 2:04 on the video and watch until that clip ends. hopefully it should clear thing up on what im saying

>>7548815
It's just a good explanation of differences in conversation that are part of what I'm describing, I really recommend reading all of it
Then consider something like this
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1467-8624.1992.tb01692.x/abstract

>Older children exhibited substantial self-regulatory guidance based on personal standards. They expressed anticipatory self-approval for same-sex typed behavior and self-criticism for cross-sex typed behavior. Their anticipatory self-sanctions, in turn, predicted their actual gender-linked behavior.

People base not just their directed behaviour but also self-evaluation on a gendered standard, which leads to this:
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/tea.20195/abstract

Even though their abilities are somewhat equal (in terms of IQ and school marks/progression and even most "math" intensive brain abilities such as spatial memory) their fundamental motivation is different, and it's entirely because of gendered socialization. In order to seriously change the disparity in higher technical fields, the differences in socialization need to be undone. It's all very deeply embedded in how they are taught to think about themselves and their role in this world. Quotas and other "women-in-stem" programs will never be able to remediate this, only tackling the fundamental issue (gendered socialization) would

>>7548715
>>7548921
See >>7548690

>>7548690
Rape is a very real and powerful threat and most sex under coerced circumstances goes unpunished. I don't know everything about the statistics because both sides will try to shit on the other but I am confident that there is undue pressure on women to put out and expect to deal with men's unwelcomed advances. Even if a particular case doesn't get counted as rape it doesn't mean that the particular interaction is not endemic and representitive of a larger problem that feminists (I would agree unjustly) define as rape culture. Honestly I kinda think that neither side is taking what is a legitimate issue seriously and it's a real shame. The gender pay gap isn't a lie because it shows women have less resources than men which puts them at a material disadvantage and forces them to be reliant. Actually even when you do account for the pertinent factors such as position, experience, age, etc there is a "leftover" in the gap of some 30℅ that can be attributed directly to sex discrimination. That being said I think it's not right to drag the debate down to this level because like I mentioned, I'm not interested in just "equal pay for equal work" (although that obviously SHOULD be the case) but more fundamentally the overall difference is a problem in itself. I can agree that the educational gap is a big problem but I'm pretty hesistent to say that it's "teaching method" because it seems like the solution is "boys need to go outside and run more!". It's great and all but that doesn't really justify poorer scores on literacy and math. I think that education needs to be revised more radically to allow for kids to study in a more varied and effective personal way. Also the lack of support of male victims is absolutely tragic and I do think it's because of blatant sexism, feminists have really failed in this regard so I agree with the criticism

>>7549004
>I don't know everything about the statistics
>but I am confident that there is undue pressure on women
Feminism in a nutshell.

>>7541242
I was actually a rather outspoken libertarian misogynist and MRA anti-SJW stereotype before transitioning. I was the one in classrooms rudely debunking feminist rhetoric, treating all women like entitled children, correcting female professors because I somehow knew better than a woman with a PhD on the subject. I would have probably went full alt-right on pure dysphoric rage and resentment of cis women alone had I never addressed my issues and realized *why* I resented cis women so much.

I've since tempered my blanketed negative opinions about feminism, intersectionalism, and SJWs in general with lived experiences of being a woman. I went into transition thinking that things weren't that bad, that minority groups were whining over nothing and needed to buck up. Then guys, even close friends, started randomly groping me all the time, or making rudely sexual jokes and comments at my expense, and laughing at me when I got mad or felt uncomfortable. I was catcalled constantly in public. I was slut shamed by a group of guys who stalked and made up rumors about me because I didn't want to fuck their friend who creeped on me for months. I lost almost all of my guy friends because they realized they weren't going to fuck me and I wasn't keen on being threatened with random violence whenever they drank. Guys stopped listening to me in the video games I liked, and started sexually harassing me. I was doped at a bar by a random date rapist. Then, almost like a karmic cherry on top, the first guy I ever dated raped me after I had a few drinks. There I was, crying in the fetal position in the bed of a rapist who was mad because I didn't want to cuddle, where it dawned on me that women don't actually have it easy... contrary to popular right-wing propaganda.

Now, I'm a fuckton more sympathetic to women than I ever was, and practically all of my friends are women. I'm also a hell of a lot more suspicious of men, especially guys who act like how I used to.

>>7549020
Oh fuck off

I just said it because for every "false accusation" claim that I've seen I've also heard a story of a legitimate accusation that failed to produce a conviction

If you look at most of the legitimate statistics from RAINN and such, they actually help support the feminist narrative more. What I wrote was actually more liberal TOWARDS the MRA side
Don't give me this lazy > shit

>>7549004
>Actually even when you do account for the pertinent factors such as position, experience, age, etc there is a "leftover" in the gap of some 30℅ that can be attributed directly to sex discrimination.
Actually between younger unmarried people, women earn more. When are you going to do something about that?

>That being said I think it's not right to drag the debate down to this level because like I mentioned, I'm not interested in just "equal pay for equal work" (although that obviously SHOULD be the case) but more fundamentally the overall difference is a problem in itself.
Except there will always be statistical differences because people make different choices in life. Feminism of course blames this on female victimhood instead of admitting women make different choices. Because it needs to justify its own existence and create more cause for special treatment.

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>>7549063
>every accusation that isn't proven false MUST result in a conviction, otherwise... SEXISM

>>7549071
The "women earning more" meme is only legitimate in very specific circumstances and it is absolutely minimal (the biggest difference was something like in metropolitan NY with a 103/100 difference). It just shows that working towards equitable treatment HAS been effective. Actually I do think that there is a bit of a bias towards young females but it is because their beauty expectations (sexism) lends them to entry-level cashier positions and other minimal BS. The problem to tackle here is more to do with capitalism and automation than gender differences specifically.

And yes women make different choices because they are socialized into accepting subservience. It does nothing to support your claims. Also like I mentioned several times already I am not in favor of "special treatment" in the form of quotas and such because it is only a small band-aid solution to what is otherwise a deeply rooted societal problem that can only be altered by starting at the very base (gendered socialization from birth)

>>7549063
There will always be a vocal advocacy for the Brock Turners of the world. It's not exactly fair, but it's something you need to accept.

>>7549063
That's called "innocent until proven guilty" and you don't act like it's a problem for any other crime. It's only this one feminists wants it abolished for.

>>7549095
I specifically said LEGITIMATE accusation

I've personally known situations in which a girl was raped by a guy (like actual rape under coerced circumstances and no consent) which absolutely psychologically destroyed the girl and she didn't even try to get the police involved because she didn't think it would be believable (context of a party).
Once you have lived experience as a female it is very easy to see shit like this happening around you, just ask >>7549050


If you ignore shit like this that's just on you being a shitlord

>>7549107
>Actually I do think that there is a bit of a bias towards young females
Yes you literally just mentioned the statistics...

>but it is because their beauty expectations (sexism) lends them to entry-level cashier positions and other minimal BS
Why would they be earning more if they're in worse jobs?

Funny how when women earn more we need to look at the jobs, but with men earning more on average regardless of job, we can just use that statistic straight up.

Almost as if feminists like you have to find women to be the victim, whatever the stats!

>>7549123
There's also "settled out of court" or "sudden mistrial" or other legal loopholes and intimidation strategies meant to silence and erase victimized women through the use of expensive lawyers. It still shocks me sometimes that there are people who honestly believe that all women miraculously get justice from the legal system and rapists always get convicted somehow.

Most of the women I know who were raped never even reported it. One almost did, but then the cop started accusing her of making it up to frame her boyfriend so she went inside her house before he tried to arrest her.

>>7549132
>because she didn't think it would be believable
Girl doesn't involve police. We must start convicting people without needing evidence!
t. feminist

Meanwhile, men get literally murdered at worst and have their lives and careers destroyed at best by the hint of an accusation.

>>7549132
Look, >>7549050 here. You're on 4chan's /lgbt/ board. If you honestly think that you're gonna change any minds here you're deluded. This is basically /pol/ and /r9k/'s gay bar. If a woman was raped right in front of them, they'd probably keep walking and blame it on her outfit or her single mother or something.

>>7549167
>Girl doesn't involve police.
Why do you think she doesn't involve the police, anon?

>>7549158
>"settled out of court" or "sudden mistrial" or other legal loopholes and intimidation strategies meant to silence and erase victimized women through the use of expensive lawyers.
if i transition will i start hating the justice system?

>repressed sexually
>rabid SJW
Well well well it seems these cucks are the new republicans.
Also kys.

>>7549182
No of course not. Our justice system is always flawless. It's impossible for expensive lawyers to skirt or mitigate a charge for their client.

>>7549146
Because the overall wage gap is still something like 25% in favor of men while the (extremely specific) female favored gap is literally ~2%. It's not something to fuss over, especially when it's explainable by sexist beauty standards and shitty conditions under capitalism. If you really want to complain about women "earning more" you should at least have the statistics be consistent for a long term pattern and see who it actually applies to. Just because a few young women in metropolitan areas are doing a tiny bit better doesn't mean most women are, and it also doesn't mean the trend won't just change once they get a bit older

>>7549173
Yeah you're absolutely right I'm just burning some time waiting for laundry to finish

>>7549132
0/10
way too obvious

>>7549173
>muh soggy knee
Really? That's your go to argument when faced with someone with different opinions?

>>7549215
I'm not arguing.

>>7549222
i think that was the point.

>>7549229
I just shared my personal experiences and told another trans woman how pointless it is to convince 4chan to have empathy for women who are raped. I wasn't even talking to you or anyone in this thread with >>7549173 besides her, which is why I only linked her.

>>7549236
>oh, you don't support throwing people in jail without evidence? how can you have no empathy for women who are raped?!?

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>>7549270
>ignoring the meaning of the posts you're replying to
>several times now
>also strawmanning

just fucking talk to women about their personal experiences sometimes (and don't just assume a moral deficiency you misogynistic fuck) and maybe you will get a clue

>>7549282
i'm tired of responding to bait desu
goodbye

>>7549292
No one has been baiting you, you're just retarded and ignoring what the posts are saying (women that have actually been raped but didn't convict the offenders for a variety of reasons).

Just go read here
https://www.rainn.org/statistics/criminal-justice-system

>>7548354
>being cornered into the prude/whore dichotomy,
Isn't that like saying "there are two kinds of people in the world, people who like football and people who don't."? What do you want to be done about it?
>getting talked over/ignored/treated like you're incompetent
Not doubting that this happens to some people but I suspect it's more about presentation than gender per-say. Both as a guy and a girl I have occasionally gotten massive respect from my peers, heads turning whenever I speak, and people telling me I'm the smartest person they know.

>>7548921
>>Older children exhibited substantial self-regulatory guidance based on personal standards. They expressed anticipatory self-approval for same-sex typed behavior and self-criticism for cross-sex typed behavior. Their anticipatory self-sanctions, in turn, predicted their actual gender-linked behavior.
I did this as a child even though I'm trans. And even though my mom said it was okay for boys to play with dolls. Pretty wacky.

>>7549004
>there is undue pressure on women to put out and expect to deal with men's unwelcomed advances.
Guys who give the unwelcomed advances are labeled as creeps and dangerous so I don't believe this.

>>7549050
>Then guys, even close friends, started randomly groping me all the time, or making rudely sexual jokes and comments at my expense, and laughing at me when I got mad or felt uncomfortable. I was catcalled constantly in public. I was slut shamed by a group of guys who stalked and made up rumors about me because I didn't want to fuck their friend who creeped on me for months. I lost almost all of my guy friends because they realized they weren't going to fuck me and I wasn't keen on being threatened with random violence whenever they drank.
You must be very very attractive for your male friends to be unable to control themselves. The only time I was ever viewed in a sexual light at all was when I overheard a guy asking a friend if there was a thing between us. (the answer was no)

>>7549308
>you're just retarded and ignoring what the posts are saying
Says the person ignoring all the posts pointing out that not convicting people when they aren't guilty beyond reasonable doubt isn't a flaw in the system.

>>7547730
same with enforced destruction of gender

>>7551221
feminism operates on presumption of guilt
man? GUILTY!

>>7549236
Having empathy isn't the same as supporting mob justice.

Except in the vile minds of feminists.

>>7551234
If I tie you up and force you to suck my dick, I don't get to whine when someone forces me to untie you

>>7541977
Ohh soo you are saying there are downsides AND upsides.

No fucking shit sherlock, are people really this dumb? I honestly think that overall women have it better, but it really depends on what you value in your life more.

>>7551553
What kind of shitty feminist logic is this?

>>7551553
gender marxists are the ones forcing people into the unnatural roles against their will

I was a communist and became a nationalist third positionism after transitioning so that was cool

>>7542063
>he believes clothes have anything to do with sexual harassment
dude do you even go out sometimes ? Street harassers have no boundaries. My girl friends get harassed even wearing winter clothes.

>>7557311
"gender marxists" aren't the people using punishment/reinforcement in order to "correct" gendered behaviour you fucking shithead

Yep. I was much more liberal. But going through my shit made me realize masculine men are amazing and feminine women are amazing and it is in fact a disgusting fact that our society currently demonized masculinity and masculine characteristics. I also think this demonization has had an affect on males trying to transition.


By continually degrading the value of men as husbands, fathers, and especially PROVIDERS (think how men are attacked now for having jobs, attacked for working to much and assigning child raising to mothers, attacked for wanting women to be attracted to them for being curteous and offering provider qualities, attacked for wanting a wife to respect his masculinity, attack for raising sons to be masculine men). Our feminized society has tried to push that the only males that are worth anything are big dick swinging players who know exactly how to toe the line of treating women how they want while also treating women how they believe they SHOULD WANT to be treated. And if you aren't one of those guys with that level of acuity you are dogged and intellectually attacked.

So a certain percentage of men abandon the game or even mentally delude themselves into believing the grass is greener as a woman (and it is in some ways).

>>7541242
closet ftm
I somehow managed to be both really into MRA and trans rights (as ally)

Honestly I fit the "guy who's misogynist because he can't get laid" stereotype pretty well even now, I think it had more to do with me being generally dissatisfied with life and taking it out on social buzzwords that appealed to me than anything to do with gender dysphoria or repression