Is it possible to zen yourself out of medical transition

Short term yes but long term...maybe if you're a fucking Zen god and are out and have lots of social support. But that's extremely unlikely and I recommend transitioning if you definitely have physical dysphoria.

>>7470716
You'll most likely be depressed your entire life. Maybe if you get on some serious MAOIs or something you'll be alright. Like in an ideal situation with the right mindset and the right medications you should be just fine but then maybe one day you'd just crack and end up an ugly hon lol

I used to think I could maybe zen my way out of it and just take some antidepressants and shit but upon talking to my friends I kind of realized that in actuality no other guys actually constantly think about being a girl or just in general wanting more feminine aspects to their body and then I pretty much just wanted to kill myself upon that realization.

>>7470830
Same, people do not quite get how unnerving it is to have the wrong secondary sex characteristics than what you expect.

I'm sure in the past, lots and lots of trannies led a monastic life of some sort to escape from the emotional hell of being trans. I know on the ancient steppe, trannies were often shamans who drank mare pee. Tranny cults existed in many places throughout history. Elagabalus was a tranny priest before she was emperor/empress. So to some extent, it is possible.

But in the modern era, we have medicine to fix your problems, and medical tech is going to advance more in the next 20 years than it did in the last 60. Don't give up. Do your best anon.

>>7470830
>talking to my friends I kind of realized that in actuality no other guys actually constantly think about being a girl or just in general wanting more feminine aspects to their body and then I pretty much just wanted to kill myself upon that realization.

would you be less unhappy if you didnt feel so different than "normal"?

>>7470716
>Is it possible to find enough coping mechanisms, to reach some sort of enlightenment and be happy with your body even if you know you are the opposite gender in your brain?

It's not a coping mechanism. You'll be happy when you realize through deep meditation that there is no gender and at same time no non-gender.

>>7470716
>In short, is it possible to be happy and trans without medical transition?

Is it possible to be happy and trans after transition?

>>7470716
>I've been practicing a lot of introspection, meditation and other personal development techniques but I wonder if it will ever be enough.

The tricky part about meditations is that there are hundreds of types and most of them are plain rubbish. They are mere exercises to escape reality, or dwell upon the idea of introspection, without seeing much really.

I've been practicing zazen for the last four years, it changed my life for the better.
It takes months of daily practice to start noticing something.
The paradox about meditation is that you can't give it a goal, you just make yourself available to anything that comes, but the results are better than you initially expected.

I can't guarantee that it will make dysphoria go away, but if you practice it right, it will make you a happier and better person.

t. zen practitioner

>>7471276
This is sort of what I am talking about.

If one can achieve true happiness, isn't that not dependent on medicine?

Sure, medicine should bring health which would make life have a better quality to it, but isn't true happiness just the same even if one is half dying?

>>7470841
I'm not rejecting medicine. I can't take medicine because of economical reasons, so I think maybe if I achieve happiness regardless of being dysphoric?

>>7470770
I want to transition I just don't have the means yet. Still, if this is achieveable, isn't it worthy of pursue?

>>7471213
>If one can achieve true happiness, isn't that not dependent on medicine?

Happiness is an ambiguous abstract concept with a positive connotation. So it is very difficult to speak about happiness, since many people understand different things by it.

I agree that medicine brings relief but not happiness.

>>7470716
why the fuck would you do that?

that's like if snoop dogg offered you weed, and you said "oh thats okay i decided im just going to do stretching exercises and maybe i can get as high as you"

>>7471516
Because no one gives me the weed

>>7470716
You remind me of a repressed tranny i met on omegle awhile ago that seemed to be doing the same thing.

>>7471513
By happiness I mean being able to enjoy life regardless of how much it might suck. To not dwell on anything.

>>7471532
What do you define "repressed" as?

>>7471473
>worthy of pursuit

I have never heard a female utter that line in my life. That is such a male thing to say

>>7471516
its like when I was with my buddies who were fuckhead druggies and they were on acid and meth or what else and offering me shit, and I've been high on life just sipping beer, I dont need that shit
and Im the one laughing in the morning

>>7471557
yes, its subjective as fuck

t.bipolar

>>7471561 Well maybe repressed isn't exactly the right word, iirc they basically intellectualized their transgender feelings to the point that they thought medically transitioning would be a bad idea. They seemed to think that through meditation and a deeper understanding of the brain they could find happiness. Personally I think thats a total cop out but maybe medical transition isn't the only solution.

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>>7470716
Yes. I did it myself.
One moment (after a lot of thinking and doubting) I just came to a conclusion that I just don't have to make myself suffering. Because to suffer (in this case) is a decision. At least I think so.
I just saw so much more in life than all this trans thing that I was overwhelmed by possibilities, from which this suffering was cutting me off.
So the solution was simple: I decide to end suffering and start enjoying my life. There's just so much more to it, I couldn't resist.

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Though of course, if you have 10000+% of passing flawlessly - why not? But if you're not this lucky 1% then I suppose it is more practical to choose non-suffering.

It is also good to face the truth:
http://imgur.com/r/transpassing

>>7471941
If only brain cooperated with you logical reasoning
We actually have little to no direct control over our emotions or anything that is not conscious, like gender dysphoria or clinical depression that is the result of brain chemistry or worse - organic abnormalities

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>>7471960

wow

>>7471968
It is interesting that you mentioned depression (not all types, but some of) which actually can be cured by reasoning and therapy.

I was talking about my experience though, maybe my brain just listens to me.

Also we should consider the possibility of majority of today trans folk being victims of idée fixe or other ailments. But we cannot know for sure (and most of them too), because we're so deep in "transition or die" ideology that nobody questions nothing now, and if they do they're discouraged by other trans folk who fall into this ideology.

>>7471975
Lucky she if her profile, body and voice pass as well.

>>7471648
Sounds pretty sexist of you to assume only one gender uses certain phrases

>>7472417
muh sexism
what are you, a cuckfornian?

>>7472417
Um like who are you? How dare you say that to my face? I will totally ruin your life, missy.

>>7471659
>its like when I was with my buddies who were fuckhead druggies and they were on acid and meth or what else and offering me shit, and I've been high on life just sipping beer, I dont need that shit
>and Im the one laughing in the morning

This is like actually the gayest thing I've ever read. Like gayer than any of the posts on this board of grown men whining for cock or complaining because they wish they were more cute or pretty. Congrats, you really belong here. You're the faggotest.

>>7471659
>bipolar
>opposed to drug use

I don't believe you. Me and everyone I've known who's bipolar at least drinks like a fish when they're manic.

>>7473250
I dunno maybe for normal people it sounds 'gay', but when you've been into drug user circles for a long time you get kinda bored of it
and develop tolerance too

>>7473287
>opposed
not opposed, just felt like Im good without any
but I've done lots of really dumb things too when I couldn't stop and mixing what shouldn't be mixed, until Im out or puking my guts

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Self awareness never hurts, and it's the core of any kind of zen or zen knockoff. Everyone should practice a bit of it, but if you have lots of troubles, be they anything from trans to something as banal as being unhappy about your life choices, self awareness is much more important.

I don't know if working on becoming more self aware will help you OP, or anyone else in this thread, but I CAN tell you that if you go into it thinking you'll find nothing, you'll find nothing.
>>7471994
Points out the whole present day 'transition or die' ideology is present, and must be accounted for when people say they MUST transition.

Invasive surgery and invasive hormones are unnatural. That's not to say unnatural is bad. Humanity as a whole is unnatural, and that's why as we move forward as a race we have so many problems mentally. We weren't made (or developed through evolution) to deal with the lives we've crafted for ourselves, but they're very nice lives.

Still, remember that the surgery and the hormones push you deeper and deeper into strata where your mind will have even more difficulty adjusting. The first step you should always take, when considering anything from leaving your spouse for a more attractive sex friend, or transitioning hormonal and surgically from male to female is WHAT WILL IT BE LIKE AFTER. Once you place yourself in the future, in the shoes of having made that choice, only then can you accurately see what you will lose by taking that action.

I'm not trans, but maybe I could have been if I drank the cool aid. Self awareness is a boon tool to have though, so even if it doesn't help you with this, it will still help you.
>>7470716
TL;DR Do it. OP

That said, most of Zen imo is a means to an end. I look back on it and find it's mostly useless. The function of all the mumbo jumbo is to help you discover truth by yourself. They're not trying to lead your horse to water.

>>7473754
I definitely agree and I think being self aware is good for every aspect of my life, including maybe being trans.
I think it's precisely that self awareness that has helped me stay alive through the lowest points in my dysphoria and depression. And so I stayed alive. But will I ever be happy? This is a thought that stops me from practicing fully.

All in all, medical transition is very far into the future for me, when I get a stable full time job at a firm with anti discrimination rules and save up enough money to start and never stop. This is at least 3 years to wait, who knows at most how long. Also I still will save up for now, but I'll take the ultimate decision there and then. I don't think I MUST transition but I want to. Life is too short not to do it because of what other people think. However I still need a lot of money and a supportive workplace to achieve that.

>>7473250
yeah this dude is just a spas. if someone offers u free drugs that are not heroin, because u dont want hiv, take the drugs. idiot. also, most meth is garbage so u can avoid that too, but to sit around saying "beer is the only thing I need" is just gay. if anything, alcohol is just as bad if not worse than the drugs they were trying to give u. i wouldnt be surprise if they were just offering u a little weed and u pussied out because of what ur mummy told u about devils lettuce. ur dumb.

>>7470841
>in the past, lots and lots of trannies led a monastic life of some sort to escape from the emotional hell of being trans.
this was actually my plan before transitioning. Would probably have gone okay tbqh

I'm an AGP and use weed to space out, seems to help with my dysphoria.

You can zen yourself out of dysphoria like you can zen yourself out of hunger. In the end you are a physical entity with physical needs.

Yeah, I did sorta. But not through coping lol, that's the opposite of what will help. Acceptance is the key.
Gender is a social construct, it only relates to physical bodies as much as we want it to or as were raised to believe. Medical transition is just not a priority for me anymore. Would it be nice? Sure. But in the end, gender and physical sex are unrelated, and in a moment of clarity I saw that I was mixing them up in my mind. That moment felt SO good. I don't NEED to transition like that. My physical dysphoria was because I had odd expectations for how gender ought to be physically expressed. It's an illusion. Like I said, medical transition might be nice, but I now find it to be nothing to get upset over. I sort of accepted and surrendered to who I am, which had a huge positive benefit for my gender expression, and it made the body dysphoria back off. Coping delays acceptance.
I can't say if everyone's body dysphoria is related to the incongruity between a social construct and our expectations about how it's physically expressed, but mine sure was, and I know for a fact it is true for some others.

>>7476893
"Gender" is not a social construct. "Gender roles" or "gender expression" are influenced by social constructs of that gender but gender in itself is very biological in its nature. It's the identity forged into the way the brain is wired, basically in the same category as instinct and other innate concepts.

That aside, acceptance is also a way to cope with dysphoria but it's not a cure, and while social dysphoria might be diminished by changing ones social views, body dysphoria has nothing to do with social expectations.

I've been meditating for around 6 years maybe more every day to help deal with my emotions cause i get depressed a lot. I'm totes mtf-pre-hrt-but-thats-just-me, I don't think I've ever been truely zen for more than a few seconds and i have certainly felt nirvanas shiny golden dick poking into my mouth and rubbing me all over (still skeptic agnostic), but desu it doesn't help dysphoria. It did however give me enough self love and confidence to do what i needed to do/had the chance to do something perfect with my life

>>7470830
>>7471276
>>7471466
>>7471968
>>7473754
>>7476333

Some quality stufff on this thread.
if your body feels wrong, it wont change with self acceptance and patience.

>>7482258
Crucial word "feels". Not "is" but "feels". Feelings can be dealt with thought only. So "hunger" >>7476333 is a false analogy.

>>7476893
So true. I would describe it as acceptance too.

>>7471276
>Is it possible to be happy and trans after transition?
Well happier than not at least going by what statistics we have.

>>7483445
>Feelings can be dealt with thought only
Unless those feelings come from a physical source like hunger or neurological abnormalities.

Even when feelings can theoretically be overcome with thought and therapy that doesn't mean it's a certain thing, some eating disorders have a VERY low recovery rate.

I think so. You should read about stoicists. One of them in particular said that the reality in itself doesn't make you happy / unhappy, it's the way you consider it.

Anyway I highly recommend you to read about stoicism and taoism, it helped me figure a lot of things in that mess

>>7472465

wow, agp or hon, eitherway you misrepresent female kind everywhere...

>>7470716

Zen will just end up making you feel worse, as it cannot change your hormones. It will make you feel a little better generally and perhaps calmer, but it will not fix the issues and therefore make you feel like shit for being bad at zen, when in reality it is your brain that is defective.

Just take the fucking titty skittles and be happy you masochist.