Transsexualism as a neuropsychological disorder

>>7379234
>neuropsychological
what does this buzzword mean?

I think the common belief in science is that there is a neurological gender identity, there are a lot of papers about it especially in intersex studies.

afaik the only people that make the claim that there is not do it specifically to dismiss trans people, either from bigotry/religious or radical feminism

>>7379390
>I think the common belief in science is that there is a neurological gender identity
there would be the same scientists who form the 97% climate change consensus?

>>7379383
It means that it's psychologically psychological. as opposed to physiologically psychological.

>>7379402
>there would be the same scientists who form the 97% climate change consensus?
I dont think climate researchers and sexual development researchers are the same people, no

>>7379402
>le strawman: the post

>>7379390
While I agree that it is neurological, I would say that anything that diverges from male and female qualifies as neurological disorder. That was the point of the OP.

>>7379383
Google it.

>>7379234
Technically it's a matter of perspective, especially when you consider the variations from place to place and culture to culture on what feeling, experience, or behavior defines such a vague term as "mental disorder" and in what context.

The current official medical understanding recognized by the APA is that being trans in itself isn't a mental disorder. Gender dysphoria itself is currently considered a "mental disorder" because it can cause someone distress due to neurologically and/or mentally incongruous sex or gender development/presentation (be it phenotypical, behavioral, or both), and difficulty functioning in society due to said distress. The mitigation of distress is the primary focus of mental health treatment, it is not to label people who are merely different "wrong" or "disordered", because they don't fit someone else's personal criteria of "healthy" or "natural" or "good." If someone mitigates their gender dysphoria to the point of non-existence or at least minor annoyance, typically through therapy and sometimes chemical and surgical transition, they're not considered mentally ill.

Your specific opinion of gender is your own, which you're entitled to. You might piss some people off if you decide to make up your own black and white dichotomies based on little else but your personal views, but no one is going to lynch you. However you shouldn't expect trans people, or those in the medical field who study and treat them, to respect your views without proper research and peer review or else you come across as an immature troll, a naive conspiracy theorist, or an actual bigot with intrinsically biased views.

>>7379390
This. You typically find outspoken naysayers among the religious and political extremes. Most average people either don't know, don't care, or know enough about the practical medical aspects of trans people to not break out the torches, pitchforks, SCUM manifestos, and assorted holy scriptures.

>>7379488
nah

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>>7379234
Listen here my man, gender is not some black and white pigeonhole where every XY animal is 100% male in behavior, physiology and psychology and XX animal 100% female in behavior, physiology, psychology. Most gender typical people (the overwhelming majority) operate in the middle or close to it and there is obviously potentiality for a cross-sex identity but that is obviously something a brainlet with a binary sex identity like you cannot possibly comprehend.

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>>7379234
All Mental illness is something you can repress and ignore

>>7379494
You clearly didn't understand what I was stating in the OP.

The point is that what makes someone subscribe to the particular gender pronoun that their sex denotes, is a matter of neurological functionality. This is hardly contestable.

The reason we even assign genders to ourselves, cannot be argued as a cultural phenomenon. What is considered masculine or feminine comes down to social mores, but how and why we assign gender is not a cultural convention, and the mechanisms responsible for making gender a part of ones identity can either work properly or fail.

For this reason, it's a misnomer to talk about something like "gender non-binary" as a gender in itself, when it's more of a pseudo gender, something that diverges from the gender dichotomy due to neurological abnormalities.

>>7379543
>You clearly didn't understand what I was stating in the OP.
maybe using inexplicable buzzwords and refusing to explain them was a bad move.

>>7379503
Gender identity is not about behavior. There are plenty of masculine women, and feminine men who don't identify contrary to their biological sex, whether or not you think their behavior is typically male or female. Gender identity is a separate psychological function.

>>7379573
>Gender identity is not about behavior.
then it's nothing. it's bit by bit being defined out of existence as everything that used to be claimed to be it gets declared something else.

it's like god, retreating from wherever science reaches, until you understand everything without needing him at all.

>>7379553
>using buzzword
>on a buzzword board
Reminder David Reimer shot himself in the head with a fucking shotgun. Truly it shows the gender is a social construct, even if you destroy the penis through the failed jewish ritual.

>>7379402
Yes, and the same scientists that don't believe Jehovah shit out the universe 4000 years ago. Your views are wrong, fucking deal with it.

>>7379617
No, it's just more complicated than your simple mind wants to entertain.

I'm not saying that male and female behavior is totally relative. Due to different brain anatomy and hormone levels, males and females are more or less prone to specific mental states, which correlate to emotional levels, and cognitive patterns.

In the future I think we will better understand how and why our male and female natures make us act in certain ways.

>>7379624
Mental illness is a social construct, therefore calling something one (or not doing so) is purely political and has no base in reality.

>>7379407
Does it mean climate researchers are sexist racists since they don't comply 100% to the liberal ideology?
>>7379673
>Mental illness is a social construct
Yeah, I bet those MPD people sure are happy to know the voices in their head are social construct and so don't need to be treated.

>>7379617
Simply put, gender identity at a base level is about looking at your body, and having either mental congruity or incongruity with an innate and abstract concept of masculinity or femininty. That is without going into any of the details.

>>7379652
that's pretty aggressive for someone who thinks they are correct.

>>7379730
Gender identity is about embodying that innate concept of masculinity or femininity as part of your self image.

>>7379752
mental illness

>>7379626
>Reminder David Reimer shot himself in the head with a fucking shotgun. Truly it shows the gender is a social construct, even if you destroy the penis through the failed jewish ritual.
reimer is hardly a conclusive example.

>>7379769
Yes, when mind and body don't meet. Do I need to make this any clearer?

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>>7379772
>muh inconclusive evidence
it clearly shows that if you cut a man's dick off, dress him up and call him Sally, he'll still revert to his previous self

trannies won't

>>7379772
It was enough for John Money to "conclude" that gender is a social construct.

>>7379789
>>7379790
and now you two are doing exactly the same pseudo-science as money. "look at david, this proves how every single human being is"

>>7379796
most people are because david was a typical heterosexual male who was, true to the meaning of the word, mutilated

>>7379796
The thing is all other similar "experiments" were made based off Money's "conclusive evidence", which makes them faulty on the basic level.

>>7379668
>No, it's just more complicated than your simple mind wants to entertain.
wow i'm convinced. how could i have been so wrong! thank you for showing me the light. i agree with your view now.

>>7379673
My schizo sibling has socially constructed hallucinations yes

>>7379825
>Needing emotional reinforcement and not responding to any of the claims.

Well done you foolhardy, belligerent child.

>>7379815
>david was a typical heterosexual male
you're as bad a liar as money.

>>7379821
source?

>>7379844
>claims
aka baseless assertions

what is there to say besides doing the same as you and replying "no" to each one?

>>7379846
are you actually disputing david reimer's heterosexuality? okay, kid

>>7379860
>i can't even!
okay, tumblr.

>not responding to any of the claims.

>>7379872
what claims? anything i said here i base on scientific data, you on the other hand on evidence pulled out of your asshole

>>7379855
How about not, because you're uneducated and a fucking idiot? Or you could do some (actual) research and then come back to me.

To begin with you could do some reading about prenatal testosterone transfer, to learn about the effects on morphology, behavior and cognition, instead of pretending that it's irrelevant, or simply not knowing about it, yet still having this bravado out of misplaced faith in an errant and childish belief system.

>>7379883
>anything i said here i base on scientific data, you on the other hand on evidence pulled out of your asshole
get over yourself. you're not the pope and these aren't the middle ages any more. you word isn't the word of god, not matter how much you might like to think it is.

Everyone in this thread is fucking retarded and boy it shows. Leave science to actual scientists you mom's basement dwelling morons.

>>7379903
>Or you could do some (actual) research
yeah anyone who questions you needs to, but you, heaven forbid!

>>7379912
what's important is that you've found a way to feel superior to both sides.

>>7379913
Except I did research, and that's the fucking reason why I'm making the point?

Are your gender dysphoric suicidal tendencies adversely affecting your abilty to string two thoughts together? Is that it?

>>7379941
>Except I did research
funny, since you seem unable to post it or anything else that backs your claims.

>Are your gender dysphoric suicidal tendencies adversely affecting your abilty to string two thoughts together? Is that it?
what?

>>7379956
Oh, did you want me to drop one or two studies when really we're dealing with an entire body of scientific work and I explicitly told you to read up on prenatal testosterone transfer?

Your are literally as dumb as they come.

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>>7379234
If you mean that it's that your brain is physically either structured masculine or feminine, then yeah, I would agree. Having a feminine brain structure in a male body would fuck you up.

>>7379970
Yes, pretty much, but I would say that it's not so much about having a feminine brain in a general sense as having a partcular part of your brain, or a particular set of connections malfunction.

>>7379982
Malfunction/be wired abnormally

>>7379747
If you're a scientist arguing with someone who believes something is true just because someone wrote about it in a book 3000 years ago, you have a right to be aggressive.

>>7379692
>Does it mean climate researchers are sexist racists since they don't comply 100% to the liberal ideology?
What is illiberal about openly acknowledging the evidence of anthropogenic climate change?

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Gender identity is a biologically hardwired innate sense of your body formed in the first 3 months of pregnancy (intrauterine period). It's an instinctual conviction to your shell and its function. Sex is determined at conception and gender identity is formed ~1-3 months after.

There is significant similarities between the brain morphology of ciswomen&transwomen, and cismen&transmen indicating a related origin. These dimorphic areas are most notably in the: hypothalamus structure/behavior, limbic system, white matter microstructure, and colossal shape.

Further, much of the data is interdisciplinary (neurology, molecular biology, endocrinology) and much of the neurological findings have critical controls which factor out hormone replacement therapy or current sex hormone as the genesis of these dimorphic structures.

Male cancer patients suffering from androgenic cancers (prostate/testicular), often do androgen deprivation to combat cancer. This is done through an orchiectomy or or antiandrogens. Some of these patients end up taking female sex hormones or SERMs (estrogen sex hormone only acting on some receptors, i.e. no breast growth). These male identifying patients that remove androgens from their system and take a feminizing hormone reveal masculine-typical brain structures. Indicating these patterns are not formed due to active hormones. It's a hardwired formation that doesn't change depending on active sex hormone.

Some of the modern work in this field actually controls for pre-HRT patients and find the same results. In the first study by Zhou (started this all), he examined a transgender brain post-mortem of an 80 year old organ donor. This organ donor reported feeling cross sex dysphoria throughout his life and never transitioned. Their brain matched results found by the other transgender subjects.

>>7379968
>we're dealing with an entire body of scientific work

Yeah and all the body of empirical research supports this: >>7380169

Except instead of 3 months into pregnancy it's 6. I think Anon got a little mixed there.

>>7379234
It is, but "mental illness" is such a shitty demeaning term, just use "medical condition."

>>7380169
>Gender identity is a biologically hardwired innate sense of your body formed in the first 3 months of pregnancy (intrauterine period)
So we can predict if a baby is going to be trans and save me from being born into this dysphoric hell? Or start transitions at birth

>>7384668
Eventually we will be able to, yes.

>>7384682
Honestly there should a law to require mercy abortions. It would be cheaper than a transition later and would mean the parents would have the chance to have their child cis, guaranteed.

>>7384708
you can be trans and still be happy anon

>>7385059
yes but it's harder. parents should want the best for their children.

if i knew they had a choice to make their child live this way vs having a cis, i'd hate them for it.

how would you like it if you knew someone had chosen for you to be trans?