Kim Petras: WOW, I mean WOW

>>7355687
you can clearly see her manly archetype in her craniofacial structures. No amount of FFS will eliminate the masculine traits of her cranial dome which she tries to hide with improbable, unrealistic hairstyles. There is this meme, among stupid trannies, that if you start transition at 12, you automatically will pass. This is absolutely false and serves to create more delusion and confusion among already confused and deluded trannies. We have demonstrated, on numerous occasions, that the cranial dome is already shaped by age 3. This individual Kim Petras has an incredibly masculine archetype.

>>7355694
>le advanced autism

>>7355687
she looks fine to me

just because she doesn't look like a japanese cartoon girl doesn't mean she doesn't pass, anon

>>7355694
chill out, if there are no anthropologists (or skull anons) on the street she will pass

>>7355687

I don't get it, she passes. Have you not left your house in a while. I have seen way more manly cis women than her...

>>7355746
are you blind or stupid? Or both? There are no women with a cranial vault like that and I bet you anything the average Joe will look at her and go "wow, she has a fucking big nogging", then, he will look at her more closely and will realize she is a man.

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>>7355687
Same deal with Nicole Maines, who despite being a prepubertal transitioned still ended up 6'2'' and appearing so far to the side of being male that she identified as a femboy (not the word she used but whatever) just two years ago. Sad stuff.

>>7355760
it is so obvious to us that she is a man, so sad

There's no way I would think she was trans if I didn't know already. And I'm trans.

>>7355760
>>7355774
>women can never be tall

do you people not go outside?

>>7355722
you don't have to look like a Japanese cartoon. You have to look like a normal woman.

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>>7355687
>that petite frame
i think genetics had a major role

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>>7355781
>thinking height is the issue here
You've got a lot to learn.

>>7355793
extremely male archetype

>>7355760
> who despite being a prepubertal transitioned still ended up 6'2''
If I had to guess it's because her "prepubertal transition" was actually botched procedure of blocking T and only giving her E when she was 16 or even older.

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>>7355844
Partially correct but the hesitation at giving her estrogen came from rejection on her part as she does not recognize herself as trans (she claims she never experienced dysphoria but was "initiated" into transitioning around 6~ by her parents).

Dear skullchan, what do you think of this person? She started HRT at like ~15 I think.

https://www.instagram.com/felleriex/

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>>7355694
>skull size autist writing in the first person plural again

to those who say these girls don't pass... yalls be trippin. if i didn't know i would never suspect. maines perhaps has a more angular face structure but looks legitimately feminine

>>7355760
>still ended up 6'2''
That's because she started estrogen way too late, retard.

>>7355977
>I repeated time and time again that Nicole doesn't pass
FTFY

>>7355896
Definitely passes, she has really weak shoulders.

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>>7355793
To me she looks like Mia Wasikowska.

>>7355758

Lol you are an idiot. No one is walking around checking out skulls. Just because you are a hyper vigilant sperg lord it doesn't mean society is that detail focused. I once saw a man eating packing peanuts because he thought they were airated snacks. Kim will be fine.

>>7355970
This.

>>7355977
>tiny asian dicklet detected

>>7355694
>cranial dome
I can never a take a post serious that has the words "cranial dome" in it now.

>>7356146
>So humiliating
It's funny cos you could say literally anything to a trans girl and she still won't fuck you.

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>>7356146
Don't get mad, Caraposter.

I may very well be the only one here, who actually has some sympathy with you.

Don't you remember me?

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reminder that not all women have weak jawlines

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>>7356187

The time has not come yet, Caraposter.

But it eventually will.

For now, know that the steps you are making are being observed.

This was the first time I revealed myself to you.

You will recognize me more quickly next time.

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>>7356249
Okay.... I'm but a phantom now. Thanks for watching.

Ta ta ;)

>>7355687
>>7355694
Oh look, it's this thread again

>>7355793
She looks more female then most females I know. But those hands though.

>>7355687
That's a male. Will always be male genetically, where is this "girl's" father?

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>>7356303
kys

>>7355687
How and in what world does she not pass?

>>7356367
>t. disrespectful stupid idiot

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>>7356504
>calling somebody out for being disrespectful
>on 4chan

>>7355870
Is that her? She looks kind of large framed but otherwise completely passable IMHO.

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>>7356146
cara, if you continue to project your insanity on everyone you aren't going to get anywhere
i know you're trying to 'discredit' nicole but that's not going to work how you're doing it, and if your 'big plan' to discredit her is anything like these plans it's not going to work either
t. the other sympathy anon

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>>7356624
haven't read her book
would be very, very surprised if it included a sizeable number of the same, uh, conclusions you've come to
how far have you progressed in recording the things you need to record before starting hrt, by the way? this isn't a topic you can reasonably procrastinate on

>>7356192
i love strong jawed women
they look so slutty

>>7356688
well yeah cara, that's sort of a basic fact of brain sex research
that's why chicks like blaire who are straight up just gay guys can have very successful transitions

this is some top tier shitposting in here

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the idiot who posted Angelina Jolie's picture to prove that real women have strong jaws. Size and shape are two different things. Angelina might have a square jaw but it's super small, also, the preponderance of her characteristics is female

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>>7355896
>https://www.instagram.com/felleriex/
this right here to me is a male shaped face. However that fact that her head is so small makes me think she passes. But definitely has male shaped head in some regards. Just look how square it is, square in ways that for example Olivia Wilde is NOT

>>7356019
next to mia it would be obvious kim was a man and mia was not

>>7357126
jej that looks like me before I started T

>>7357138
you can't make comparisons based on pictures. They don't show scale

>>7355687
West Europeans are hideous potatofaces

>>7355844
>>7355870
>>7355760
So she really is like Andrej.

And it's society forcing people who are really femboys and would have been perfectly happy being unaturally cute boys to become women.

YOU TRANNIES WHO POST HERE ARE STUPID BECAUSE YOU GUYS CONFUSE SCALE WITH SHAPE. TWO DIFFERENT THINGS

>>7357160
no, that's just what cara says about her
nicole is in real life a fairly typical example of a severely dysphoric trans girl who requires early transition
cara is an interesting person and a truly unreliable source

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>>7356192
Another example is Alessandra Ambrosio.

I'm pretty sure y'all trannies know who she is

>>7357218
ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME? DO YOU HAVE ANY FUCKING IDEA OF HOW SMALL ALESSANDRA AMBROSIO'S FACE AND HEAD ARE? IDIOT YOU ARE STILL CONFUSING SHAPE WITH SIZE. LOOK AT ALESSANDRA'S PHOTOS NEXT TO OTHER PEOPLE AND SEE WHAT A PIN HEAD SHE IS

>>7356486
see >>7355694

>>7357191
But it's possible to want to keep a feminine body, but still think of yourself as a boy. People just link the two together to the point that anyone who doesn't want to be the same as sexually mature males and does something about it is compelled to become mtf.

I mean any doctor who would hear about the HRT femboy thing would try and force you to either go full mtf or give up your meds.
>>7357199
But if it's anything like Andrej, she must have wanted the meds and probably would've gone as far as getting them illegaly. So it's really just a problem that the few people who would acept that would want to make you socially become someone else.

>>7355694
her archetype isn't "incredibly" masculine. But it is masculine.

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>>7357241

You do understand she's like 5'10, right? Her head is not exactly THAT small considering her height.

Here's another pic of her with Mexican - Lebanese business mogul Arturo Elias Ayub, CEO of Telmex & America Movil

>>7357218
and this is a big face to know? Wow faggot you must have been sucking so many cocks in bath houses that the virus has ruined your brain forever

>>7357199
he looks like such a boy in this picture. Cute femme boy, but boy all the same.

So I guess this proves the "transition at 12 and stealth" meme

i mean I wonder if anything cara poster says is true idk

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>>7356901
wrong. angie has a perfect mix of masculine and feminine traits

>>7357160
society doesn't force. Being a woman is better than being a feminine faggot and everyone knows, it everyone, including feminine faggots.

>>7357282
she has declared she is 5'9'' which means that in real life she is 5'8'' or less. Regardless, even women of 6'2'' have smaller heads and faces than genetic men and trannies are genetic men. That picture doesn't mean shit/ The guy is further away from the camera. Question: how can you be so stupid and idiotic and ignorant?

>>7357300

I'm enjoying the level of autism in here, lmao

Lmfao it's honestly amazing to me that there is a guy out there that spends literally hours daily absolutely freaking out on 4chan about skull sizes. Notice he never posts any quantifiable data about skull dimorphism. Always just general conjecture, "we", "always", "never"

Lmfao pathetic

>>7357300
It's your fault for having been born some sort of west euro gorilla, hon. You don't have to project, not everyone's a freak like you.

Take the femboys for instance, lot's of them have dainty little skulls and neotenous bodies. Obessions with being thin and starving one's self will do that.

Which really means, if we went by your deluded ideas and skull sizes really are everything, then they could be the ultimate trannies if they wanted. Course there's really other things like noses and stuff that give BDD.

>>7357366
listen faggot you have no fucking idea what you are talking about. Even the super feminine fags have grossly masculine faces, even when they are small (rarely). These faces are masculine shaped and FFS won't do shit you can burn yourself alive as far as I am concerned. FAGGGOT

>>7357395
You just said size was everything.

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who cares about passing
i only ever cared about being beautiful
and i've made it

>>7357411
there are three factors: a) scale which is the most imporant element and cannot be changed b) proportions (relationships among the parts and different planes) c) shape. FFS can only change some B and some C but cannot change A which remains still the big clocking factor

>>7357588
doesn't matter any of that. Kim Petras and this Nicole show and demonstrate that starting HRT very early means shit since your bones are determined by your chromosomes XY> period. This meme that if you start soon you will be gorgeous and passable and nobody will be the wiser has to end. Ok? Ok

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>>7357597
this is a cis woman

>>7357625
what is her scale? How can you determine her scale with no reference point? Why are you so retarded? What is the point of posting this picture? What do you want to prove? WHAT? Tell me, what????>

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>>7357661
this is another cis woman

>>7357481
This I saga me
>>7355694
You seem really eurocentric with you statements over the board.

African Mustardrace, feels good.

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>>7357160

>Unnaturally cute boy
>Dad tries to force you to be macho
>Become the ideal dandy in the process, gender becomes incidental and inconsequential, the physical self becomes the expression of the inner world.

>>7355758
You must be a blast at parties
>"She's cute go say hi anon!"
> "No fuck that she has the cranial structure of a stage 3 monopsyplatonic male!"

>>7357625
That is Robbie Rotten you mongoloid

>>7355896
>nice meme
that girl is cis

>>7356143
>I can never a take a post serious that has [THE FORBIDDEN WORDS] in it now.
>uses them twice in his own post
UH-OH
SPADOODIOS

>>7357588
>ogre on the right
Yikes! Looks like a 45-yo Italian car salesman, ought to be chewing a "stogie"

You know what this thread needs? OP posting his hon face in here for comparison.

>>7355732
Tfw anthropologist tranny

she looks exactly like a cis girl you fucking retards

>>7357746
Demi Moore's daughter picture proves nothing, stupid. Scale and shape are two different things

>>7357788
Pfft. We are eurocentric because we are fucking European duh. Well not really. We talk just as much about pathetic Asians and their delusions of superior passability

>>7359020
She likes them because they make her feel like she's pretty in comparison

>>7357302
I see a man, sorry

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>>7357746
This is a ciswoman

>>7355687
Holy shit I am happy I never became this toxic and obsessive about clocking other trans women. I pity you sad, neurotic bitches.

I used to feel sorry for skull size autist but now they are just a pox on this board, it's becoming ridiculous

>>7359890
wipe my ass with your tongue. I run out of toilet paper

>>7359808
>>7359890
i love seeing autogynephiles getting flustered and triggered by skull size posts on 4 chan. it must destroy their delusions of being able to pass with magic HRT and magic FFS

>>7355694
>we

>>7360023
AGP does not exist holy shit AGP posters are more autistic then Caraposter stalking someone he thought was trans

""Autogynephilia" describes a paraphilia

Blanchard continues to describe this illness as "a distinct paraphilia" worthy of differential diagnosis, and an improvement in terminology over what his mentor Kurt Freund labeled "cross-gender fetishism"

Skullposters are a fresh meme tho

>>7360094
oh please, you sound like that Asian crossdresser Ianna Drew. Autogynephilia is real and distinguishing a real transsexual from a disgusting autogynephile is super easy. You can just tell they are cut from two different cloths.

>>7360110
Okay ill bite how do you tell them apart?

>>7357588
When you have to wait 4 years to get estrogen, you'll obviously get depression.
My youngest sister was really late too, I think until 15, and she had a really hard time dealing with it.

Hormones should be aimed to start at 12, and I think at latest at 14.

>>7357302
I see Dave Lister from Red Dwarf desu familia

>>7360749
15 is workable. But you'll probably need FFS.

>>7359020
>Posing with less pretty trans girls.
This is genius! I'll sign up for support group right away!

>>7360023
But you literally said you're a hon who fiailed at passing after FFS. And you get mad and yell at small sukulled femboys.

>>7360912
Sounds like how andrej for the longest time only wanted to use cypro/black market blockers.

>>7360761
No you won't at 15, holy shit, you're deluded.

You grew up extremely masculine because you were born to have extremely high testosterone values, and a super early puberty.

You do not have masculinization at 10-12, your puberty hasn't started by then.
Well, you had, but 99.9% of the male population don't.

>>7360956
I'm confused by what you're saying. Are you saying you won't need FFS if you started at 15? But then you're saying that I started male puberty early, so I'm ugly and need FFS?

You're wrong about the second thing, first thing is debatable. No, you probably won't NEED it to "pass", but we're striving for perfection here

>>7360972
Nicole started hormones at 15 or 16, and she doesn't need FFS, so you have no argument at all.

>but we're striving for perfection here
No we're not.
If you are, then 90% of cis women need surgery too.

And yes, you're extremely masculine, that's why you're this bitter.
Because you failed transition, even with FFS.

>>7360988
She got a prescription at first I think, but then self-medded.

>>7360980
I haven't had FFS, are you confusing me with skull size autist? Lmao, I hate that bitch

>>7360996
You're both bitter over failed transitions.

>>7360988
Pretty sure most femboys would feel more at ease with a feminine body. Even if she actually thinks of herself as a qt boy and wants to go back to being one socially, I'm pretty sure she doesn't want to be a normal man or wouldn't want the pills.

>>7360999
I'm the commie from passgen, my transition didn't fail. I'm just telling it like it is

>>7361000
Go to a mental institution, you're a conspirator.
She wanted to go on legit hormones, not puberty blockers, but all she got was puberty blockers.

>>7361306
no she fucking doesn't

>>7361306
Passes as one of the hideous german potatos, sure

im a cis het piece of shit and Kim Petras is one of the only trannies I would ever fuck.

You people are deluded if you think she doesn't pass.

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>>7361336
There are lots of cuter boys on pills.

Was way prettier than Ms. potato face, even back when he was a boy.

You have shit taste.

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>>7361353
she has a petite body, which is rare for male born and face just looks like teenager

>>7355687
Looks like Emma Watson or that girl from game of thrones

>>7355687
erm...actualy she is just German,

German women look like men, so she does pass.

>>7357844

LOL

so true ahahahahahahah

And dubs, to add to the truth

>>7355870
>she claims she never experienced dysphoria but was "initiated" into transitioning around 6~ by her parents
what the fuck, parents can transition their kids now? what exactly did they do and when? and how has it fucked her up?

still, at least now people can stop going on about john money.

>>7379107
>“I have always known I was a girl,’’ says Nicole, now 14. “I think what I’m aiming for is to undergo surgery to get a physical female body that matches up to my image of myself.’’
>When Wyatt was 4, he asked his mother: “When do I get to be a girl?’’ He told his father that he hated his penis and asked when he could be rid of it. Both father and son cried. When first grade started, Wyatt carried a pink backpack and a Kim Possible lunchbox.
>“She really is a girl,’’ Kelly says, “a girl born with a birth defect. That’s how she looks at it.’’
so basically trans.

>“I would say my brother got lucky with me. Because we grew up with only boy neighbors, I developed a liking to shoot-’em-up and military video games,’’ she says. “I could have come out a lot girlier.’’
what about the princess dress and kim possible lunchbox then?

>In conversation later, Wayne tells another story of how things have changed, for good and forever. He and the twins were getting out of the car recently, and he grabbed their hands to walk with them.
>Jonas, being a teenage boy, shook his father off, while Nicole was happy to walk hand-in-hand, swinging arms.
>“She’ll do that the rest of her life,’’ Wayne says with a wide grin. “It was an epiphany for me.’’

>>7360988
>She's only still presenting as she's at-risk of ruining and delegitimazing young transitioners.
she (he?) is forced to not detransition so that other people can get wrongly transitioned too just as easily?

>>7379270
>besides being coached into the idea of "naturally" wanting SRS.
who says that was coaching? you article didn't.

>>7379337
>delegitiatizing trutrans
good! fuck her for not having done it already. fuck her for choosing to let david reimer's death be in vain.

>>7357199
why would her parents push her into transition?

>>7357302
>Literally nothing points to Nicole experiencing """"severe dysphoria"""". Show me where.
first three quotes here >>7379229

>>7360881
she does pass. she just looks like a frumpy teenage girl

>>7379397
>The mother literally WebMD'd what it meant for a boy to be interested in girl's toys and after finding out about trans she basically sought out doctor after doctor until who would give her a diagnosis of transgender.
believable but i won't assume you're right without a more complete story than a couple of paragraphs.

also uncomfortably close to forced fem. i hate when horrible fetishes like that happen irl.

>>7379430
that's the worst strawman of pro-trans progressivism ending up getting kids transitioned, only it's real... fuck.

what does she say to suggest she's more a femboy? hating her penis isn't femboy.

>>7379498
this is all the fault of seeing gender as binary and set in stone, instead of just letting people be free express themselves how they want. the lgbt movements have done nothing to stop pigeon-holing, just opened up more pigeon-holes, with consequences as extreme as deciding to transition a kid.

>The femboy thing isn't directly quoteable.
but explain it, generally?

>>7379574
>and witnessed her present more masculine and boy-like than any of her media portrayals has been.
for example? cis/trans girls can be tomboys or masculine/boyish in some ways while still being girls.

>pic
that marriage stuff doesn't mean much. kids know they'll be grown ups one day, so they assume they'll marry someone of the other sex. they just take it for granted. that's just her talking like a cis would, not an attraction to guys.

>>7379654
>boys like action figures
>girls like houses
come on! that's not even pretending to be logical like the boys action figures/girls barbies stereotype!

>wearing boy's sweats and other andro clothing, without makeup and hair done up short.
boys clothes are shaped for a trans girl who isn't on hormones yet. andro clothing isn't masc clothing and being trans is good reason to be scared of acting too masc or fem. makeup is a hassle, classes aren't a special occasion and not all cis girls wear it all the time. women can have short hair and again, hassle. so that's all maybe. could be femboy, could be tomboy/not keen on prettying herself up.

>That would be one example.
others?

i feel a bit guilty because if true this kind of getting forced into transition is something part of me wishes had happened to me.

i wonder how she feels about it. not enough to detransition and reject being a woman, if she's still going along with it.

>>7379775
>I'm writing a larger piece on it which you'll see soon.
nice cliffhanger!

please include lots of example of masc/presenting male stuff.

>>7379843
Why are all super-early transitioners like this

>>7379843
>>7379351

>>7379919
they were transitioned by their parents?

>>7379932
that's why that was my guess!

>>7379964
what's it like to grow up "transgender" that way?

>>7380020
>washing in the dark to not see her own body
dysphoric as fuck.

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Every time I stop into /lgbt/ from a popular thread on the front page, it's always a bunch off catty queers putting down another tranny because they aren't good looking enough. You guys are so fucked up.

>>7382651
seriously? she's clearly dysphoric and you just ignore it because it contradicts your theory she's been david reimer'd?

>>7355687
Can someone remove all of these obviously not troll threads, also please throw the maker of them back to 420chan where they belong. Also murder them, plz mods :( thank you.

>>7382689
Why the hate for 420? Its where most of us came from, except trenders who only became LGBT when there was a 4chan board for it.

>>7382912
Why are you so desperate to pretend it's a myth?

>>7382927
>this is just what it's been rationally deducted to.
From things like her washing herself in the dark to avoid looking at her body, right?

>>7382678

I know right? Makes for a good laugh.

>>7382927
cara, please stop misinterpreting /lgbt/'s perception of you, or even the perception of your sympathizers of you

>>7382947
>Induced dysphoria
When did this become a thing people believed?

>>7382968
What's with their obsession over claiming Nicole isn't trans?

>>7382974
Well all of it has zero evidence, so...

>>7383032
So it's the Bible. Anything that's right, proves God did it. Anything that contradicts it? Those fossils were put there by Satan/"induced dysphoria".

She could come here herself and say it isn't true and you'd be telling us she's internalized her denial.

>>7382973
she believes nicole was reverse-reimered because of her obsessive love for her being twisted and deformed beyond all recognition
caraposter cannot deal with rejection
>>7382974
i don't believe the available evidence, including led by the child who simply knew and becoming nicole, supports your hypothesis
sure it focuses more on nicole fitting female gender roles than her dysphoria, because cis people understand gnc but not dysphoria

The worst bit is that what Caraposter says about her could be said about any one of us. It justifies gatekeeping against every last transperson.

>>7383047
>reverse-reimered
How the fuck could someone conclude that?

>her obsessive love for her being twisted and deformed beyond all recognition
>caraposter cannot deal with rejection
What's the background here? She said she shared a class with Nicole. Nicole rejected her? Or she's just projecting her own fetish onto Nicole?

>>7355694
Kill yourself, Fluppy.

>>7383077
How is she any different from any tranny?

what does she look like now. Seems to have dropped ofthe face of the earth

>>7383107
proof positive that caraposter was right all along!

>>7383065
caraposter stalked nicole and threatened her violently, and was forced to leave her college over this
cara does happen to be agp, but is of the subset of agps who has very little sexual attraction or drive, so doesn't really project her fetish onto others

>>7383198
Why did she stalk her is she doesn't have a sex drive?

I didn't even know that kind of AGP existed!

>>7383218
/lgbt/ doesn't really understand agp and comes to bizarro conclusions like 'if you want srs you're agp' or 'if you're sexually active you're agp', if you read the research on the topic by blanchard and friends (this isn't an endorsement of blanchard, i don't think his conclusions were accurate, but our disagreements are very much not on this specific point) you'll find that's close to the opposite of the truth
a lot of agps, especially by the point where they're dysphoric enough to need to transition, actually aren't that attracted to others -- they're primarily focused on themselves
and agps are universally chasers, see here:
https://sillyolme.wordpress.com/2016/11/16/she-loves-me/
cara is the picture of the young agp who projects herself onto others and stalks them as a result, something that existed long before her, but in this day and age with extremely young transitioners you can add another layer to that fantasy

>>7383259
>/lgbt/ doesn't really understand agp
Where can I read better understandings of it?

>a lot of agps, especially by the point where they're dysphoric enough to need to transition, actually aren't that attracted to others -- they're primarily focused on themselves
That seems odd. At the least wouldn't they want a man to get to be a woman with?

>>7383259
>and agps are universally chasers
Why are they? Does it get cured with transition, like how AGP itself goes away?

>cara is the picture of the young agp who projects herself onto others and stalks them as a result
But what's she even stalking them for? She doesn't want sex, since AGPs want to have sex as a woman, and she apparently doesn't have much sex drive anyway. So why the stalking?

>>7383296
>Where can I read better understandings of it?
the blog i linked you is a great resource, though as i said it's notably blanchardian (believes there are only two types whereas my analysis has found three, believes ALL transbians are agp, and severely understates how common aap is)
>That seems odd. At the least wouldn't they want a man to get to be a woman with?
some agps experience that, which is generally called meta-attraction around here (blanchard calls it 'pseudo-androphilia')
but agp sexuality is greatly variable -- some are lesbians, some are bi (some genuinely attracted to both and some having meta-attraction/pseudo-androphilia) some are 'straight' through meta-attraction, and some are asexual, but even the non-ace ones tend to have more 'muted' attraction and be (slightly) less interested in sex or relationships with others
caitlyn jenner is a good example of an agp who became agp-asexual/autosexual post-transition, though her age is a confounding factor
>>7383300
>Why are they?
this isn't known as of now
a lot of agps are specifically attracted to the idea of being a trans woman, cara being one of these (cara is also attracted to the idea of being a trans MAN but that's another topic) -- blanchard called this 'partial autogynephilia' and thought it made you less likely to transition, but that appeared to be an artifact of late 20th century attitudes to transsexualism because today agps of that type are far more likely to transition
but not all chaser agps are that type
>Does it get cured with transition, like how AGP itself goes away?
doesn't really seem to, a lot of agp women settle down with other mtfs
>But what's she even stalking them for? She doesn't want sex, since AGPs want to have sex as a woman, and she apparently doesn't have much sex drive anyway. So why the stalking?
obsession, jealousy, romantic love
and she's probably more sexually interested than she lets on -- she's also of the 'sex is dirty' mindset -- but it's a side factor here

>>7383198
Lmao, I remember when that annoying freak was only posting obsessive comments how to get some tranny at his school to notice him. Y'know those typical chaser posts.

Not surprised to hear that his stalking gor him expelled from college.

Also, friendly reminder to report any and all posts by this lunatic. Avatarfagging is against the rules.

>>7383380
>his
her

We might not like her but if we don't respect her gender identity why should anyone respect yours or mine?

And she's right about some things. Reading the screenshots of Nicole's book it's obvious she was diagnosed by Google.

>>7383324
Aren't you FtM?

Be my bf.

>>7383324
>it's notably blanchardian (believes there are only two types whereas my analysis has found three,
I'll read the blog. What are the three?

>some are bi (some genuinely attracted to both and some having meta-attraction/pseudo-androphilia)
How do you tell the difference between the two AGP bisexual types?

>but even the non-ace ones tend to have more 'muted' attraction and be (slightly) less interested in sex or relationships with others
Muted in what way?

>this isn't known as of now
Maybe if they project themselves onto someone else, then that projections leaves them in the role of the partner to "themselves" (the person they're projecting onto).

>but not all chaser agps are that type
What are the others?

>a lot of agp women settle down with other mtfs
A lot of MTFs in general do that. It could just be the common experience and being rejected by cis women and men, not anything specific to AGPs.

>romantic love
Wouldn't that come with sexual attraction?

>>7383259
i'm finding reading that blog quite sad and unpleasant.

>>7383429
why?

>>7384241
not that anon but i believe you.

how many other transitioners do you think this has happened to?

>>7384598
>I've only been paying attention to Nicole's case so I don't know.
but at a guess?

i'm tempted to look at other trans stories now to see if i can stop similar stuff.

>Probably the only good thing about the case is that it's the inverse of the David's Reiner case in that it proves the maliability and socialization of gender rather than something innate and biological.
i actually thought this too. please prove this so to everybody.

btw, what do you think of the blog anon posted? >>7383259

>>7384896
but even at 10+ they could be experiencing induced dysphoria. so how to tell the difference between induced and legitimate?

the blog is about agp and transsexuality but reading a few of its posts made it seem quite anti-agp to me.

>>7384896
>the age when legitimate dysphroia begins being observable
There is no "legitimate" dysphoria.

>>7380020

wow i've done this a lot, but I've never heard of anyone else doing this

maybe I should read the book

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>>7383259
>>7384630
Uh, isn't he that creepy hon who stalks kids, obsesses over them in some sort of ephebophilic way, made up some backstory about how he's tru trans despite overwhelming hondom and all in all just really reminds me of those old married men who troll for youthful twinks. Just extra preachy.

And he likes messing with the lives of others, telling the young what they can or can't do.

I'd laugh at him, and We'd get a laugh over how he'd react when he sees femboys are doing this far better than he ever would've and without his caricaturish corruption despite not actually being trans and being boys in their core

>>7360881
>gaben wears a dress.jpg

>>7383429
i am but i'm straight
>>7383475
>What are the three?
classic/homosexual/a*p, see here:
http://archive.loveisover.me/lgbt/thread/7163958/
>How do you tell the difference between the two AGP bisexual types?
there's no practical difference
>Muted in what way?
blanchard's studies have found agp women to be less sexually active, less romantically involved, and less interested in sex or relationships than other trans women
>Maybe if they project themselves onto someone else, then that projections leaves them in the role of the partner to "themselves" (the person they're projecting onto).
probably
>What are the others?
agp comes in several forms, the most famous being clothing-related agp which is usually expressed through crossdressing
the type most common in transitioners is 'anatomical agp', where the focus is on having a female body
>A lot of MTFs in general do that
the cofounding factor here is that the majority of western trans women, and certainly the majority of western lesbian trans women, are agp
>Wouldn't that come with sexual attraction?
not inherently -- in people with normal sex/romance drives it does, but a lot of people with abnormal sex drives have normal romance drives (or vice versa)
>>7384241
first impressions: complexity of young transitioner story simplified for a cis audience
though it's a bit odd to me that her mother was so into google as diagnostic method, it's not like she went straight from there to the informed consent clinic -- early transition is a complex focus with an almost superfluous number of failsafes
>>7385087
that's what andrea james said about her
andrea james also posted pictures of one of blanchard's friend's daughter and called her a 'cock-starved whore'

>>7386827
>there's no practical difference
to expound on this, though, if you want to tell the difference then (if they were sexually active pre-transition) look at their activity, or at least their stated desire, before transition
someone who was married to a woman for 20 years and never even experimented with men before is probably meta-attracted, someone who was involved actively with both men and women isn't

haha normal people do not analyze every girl they come across and consider factors like skull size. they just see somebody and see, dressed like a girl, looks like a girl, sounds like a girl, bam. rarely will they consider it for more than 5 seconds. kim petras passes easily.

>>7386827
>that's what andrea james said about her
Don't even really know what that means, but I know creepy old men and he's absolutely one.

And a creepy, judgmental holier than thou man at that. I hate his type.

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>>7386827
Oh, and if you're going by orientation, guess most early transitioners like Jennings are AGP because they're bi.

You honestly sound like a hon trying to legitimize himself via claiming to be true.

>>7387988
i said that i DON'T agree with blanchard because of that reason (hell, if you've seen an anon around pointing out that jazz jennings is bi and thus blanchard-agp, it's probably me), and linked to my own typology pointing that out
what is reading comprehension

>>7387988
saying you're bi is different than being bi. especially in a time when being bi/pan/queer is trendy

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>>7388086
Except that people like Andrej who started medding at 15 are bi and sort of try to down play that

Frankly, looking at this as something that can make you true just reeks of the desperation old hons have

>>7388221
except i'm not arguing that gynephilia inherently implies agp or androphilia inherently implies aap, it's just that sexual orientation is a dimorphic enough trait those go along with each other far more often than not
bisexuality is more common in women than men so it's not weird that there are csts/hsts bi women, they're just outnumbered by agp bi women
and even blanchardian research proves that the hons get fucked over here too because hon androphilia is just agp meta-attraction -- the hons trying to prove themselves '''''''''''''trutrans''''''''''''' go for hbs, see here:
https://zagria.blogspot.com.au/2010/06/rose-whites-harry-benjamin-syndrome.html

>>7385087
>>7387975
trannier than thou hons always seem to be the most bigoted about apg. why? does it make them feel more trutrans?

>>7388012
>and linked to my own typology pointing that out
post your typology?

>>7386836
How can I tell which I am if I don't have much sexual activity?

I got interested in men before being old enough to have had 20 years of marriage and that interest is now independent of my desire to be female, but to start with it only came with the fantasy of being a woman.

>>7388244
/2010/04/janice-raymond-1943-feminist-professor.html
>I am a woman, therefore I am a feminist. This is so obvious to me. The great expansion of opportunities and freedoms for all women, trans and cis, over the last 50 years is one of the great achievements of the 20th century. Raymond attempts to present her flavour of feminism as Feminism, as if there were no others. But of course there are many feminisms. One of the best statements of how Raymond is an embarrassment to feminism is found in Califia’s book. As a feminist I also find Raymond embarrassing. But there are also trans women who say things that I do not like.

>>7355694
Kek. Look at all the triggered comments from that.

>>7388649
http://archive.loveisover.me/lgbt/thread/7163958/
>>7388737
sounds like meta-attraction
it's not unheard of for people to describe their meta-attraction later becoming isolated from their a*p -- whether this technically happens is unknown, one of the bigger controversies surrounding blanchard is that he completely dismisses self-report

>>7388910
>it's not unheard of for people to describe their meta-attraction later becoming isolated from their a*p
How/why would that happen? Is it no longer meta-attraction at that point?

>>7388978
it's most likely (hence why blanchard rejects it) simply people focusing on the 'other person' in their fantasies and letting the autoerotic aspect take a backseat, without it actually leaving or disappearing

>>7389021
If meta-attraction can be basically the same as normal attraction when the focus is on the other person and the autoerotic aspect is in the back seat, then how is it different from normal attraction where there is also some autoerotic feeling?

>>7387988
What is AGP

>>7388910
>may associate pre-transition with lgb communities but doesn't fit into them even after accounting for dysphoria, a csts mtf can't fit in with effeminate gay boys because she's feminine rather than effeminate,
what's the difference between feminine and effeminate?

>generally finds new gender role unnatural and takes time to adjust, can be obviously trans even if passable
what would she do that gets clocked despite passing?

Yall got no chill
Shes passing perfectly

>D E L U S I O N A L
>E
>L
>U
>S
>I
>O
>N
>A
>L

>>7389040
because for meta-attraction where the autoeroticism is less important, there's a conscious choice to have it that way
most people (though more people than blanchard believes -- this is another area of our disagreement), though subtly autoerotic, do not have it as a major part of their sexuality and do not need to temper it in any way -- it does not play a major role in their fantasies when those fantasies include other people
>>7389076
>what's the difference between feminine and effeminate?
picture an ordinary teenage girl -- i specify adolescent because that's when behavioural sexual dimorphism peaks
picture the most stereotypical campy queen gay guy you can
that is your answer
>what would she do that gets clocked despite passing?
gender is subtle
voice (not just in the 'untrained' sense, but, say, cadence and rhythm -- if you listen to csts and agp women who haven't trained their voices at all, the former sounds stereotypically gay and the latter just sounds male), mannerisms, presentation, etc can all seem uncanny in an agp woman -- or especially an aap man, given on a surface level they usually 'look' more male (at least to normies) -- and put people on edge even if they look fine
young children seem especially good at picking this out

/2008/09/greer-lankton-1958-1996-artist.html
>Greg Lankton was the third child of a Presbyterian minister in Flint, Michigan. As a child, Greg made dolls, played dress-up and was like other girls. He was also raped by his grandfather.

>His family preferred a daughter to a gay son, and proposed a sex change. Greer was rejected by several sex-change doctors, but his mother found a surgeon who would do it. It was paid for with financial help from the father’s church congregation. However within a year Greer regretted the surgery and attempted suicide, although after recovery she did continue as female.

>In 1987 she married her long-time boyfriend, Paul Monroe, also an artist, with her father as the minister, and Teri Toye as the bridesmaid. She and Paul experimented with drugs. She was a successful New York artist making dolls, sculptures and drawings. She worked with Jim Henson of Sesame Street. She was featured in the Whitney Biennial and the Venice Biennial of 1995.

>>7389106
>because for meta-attraction where the autoeroticism is less important, there's a conscious choice to have it that way
I think I can feel attraction to men without major autoeroticism, like you describe for most people, without consciously choosing to make the autoeroticism less important. It just happens when the man is sexually appealing to me.

Yet I still only started liking the thought of being with a man through AGP fantasies.

Maybe I'm just tricking myself about how little autoeroticism I feel sometimes. It definitely is a major part of my sexuality.

>>7389382
>Maybe I'm just tricking myself about how little autoeroticism I feel sometimes. It definitely is a major part of my sexuality.
that'd be my conjecture as to what's going on here
agp women pretty consistently downplay how autoerotic they are -- people in general do, really, but when you're a*p there's the added layer of being afraid people will use it to claim you 'aren't really trans' or are 'less trans' so there's great motivation for it

>>7389390
I know I'm extremely autoerotic, like textbook AGP tier. At first there wasn't even a man in my fantasies, then he was a nonspecific masculine presence, and finally he could be an actual man and I didn't need to picture myself as a woman any more.

But maybe when that happens I'm implicitly seeing myself as a woman just by virtue of being with him? But then is that different from anyone implicitly being their gender when they feel sexual attraction to someone?

>>7389415
perhaps you've sort of 'trained' yourself into trying to isolate the androphilia from the autoeroticism? by increasing the intensity of the androphilia, you can give the impression -- even to yourself -- that it's the salient factor, even though (not sure how to explain this, i think more in concepts than verbally) the 'echoes' of autoeroticism inherent in it are the reason you're into it in the first place

>>7389432
Maybe. My outlook has become sort of less gendered. I'd still call myself trans but I identify as more feminine than female. I like it because it feels like reconciliation between my upbringing as a boy and my desire to be a girl. My theory about my androphilia is that this outlook makes the imagining being female part of AGP just part of my normal thoughts, without needing so much conscious focus, and then lets me feel the androphilia part of my AGP without needing to picture myself as specifically female.

>>7388244
To be honest, he doesn't use any of the controls you'd usually use for clinical studies, it's little better than a survey you feed people you select for too. There's a good reason why he never can get this stuff published in a multidisciplinary journal like nature, just the one he owns.

I don't really care about old men, but bisexuality is actually fairly common with effeminate twinks. So it's no surprise it is with all the non hons.

Do you even know what you're talking about?

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>>7389067
A viscous substance allegedly produced by femboy on femboy sex

>>7389472
that all sounds reasonable
>>7389516
i've read led by the child who simply knew (i first read it several years ago long before meeting you)
what i've read of becoming nicole so far is from your exerpts
>>7389597
i've read...pretty much every major study on transsexualism's etiology and biological markers
i mean actually read and digested and understood the whole thing, not just the abstract
agp and its strong (but not 100%!) correlation with gynephilia has been found by a lot of people who aren't blanchard, and the studies that go against it are consistently of far lower quality than the ones that support it
i'm not even sure what you're trying to argue here

>>7389649
What studies though? DESU none of these psych things could ever get in Nature or any journal that wanted the same clinical research standards. Psych is a laughing stock amongst other disciplines, it's little better than our online polls here.

Bisexuality is common with twinks and femboys. And you find it in a lot of the millennial HSTS groups. Simply put, the old mans models don't stand up to reality.

>>7389695
have you read anything on the topic at all? have you read any of the studies talked about and linked on sillyolme, the blog i gave you a link to?
i was born in 1998, i'm a postmillennial csts/'hsts', i know what my peers are -- they're pretty bi, but not as strongly as the a*ps and generally in the same way cishets are ('''''''''''''''bisexual''''''''''''''')

>>7389778
would be nice if you gave examples instead of just telling us to read the whole thing and assuming we'll see in it what you do?

>>7389793
A bit, frankly though, I don't see the point in reading more unless it made it to a good journal like nature, or at least something decent. Everything I saw had no blind third party controls on subject selection and no blind third party for data analysis, what they do would be considered misconduct or possibly fraud in a clinical study, it's nearly useless.
>know what my peers are -- they're pretty bi
So if you agree that's the case, then there's no way to distinguish younger hsts and AGP.

And trying leads to embarrassments like Gregory gorgeous who was supposed to be a faggot Twink and then later on turned "lesbian" (was probably almost certainly bi from the start), can't really tell if he's supposed to be hsts or AGP, can't tell for Andreja and the other non cringey younger transitioners either

>>7390064
where's this more nicole = femboy stuff?

>>7355760
Is there any source (sauce?) that Nicole Maines is definitely 6'2" in reality? And not by the word of some anon poster on 4chan.

>>7395547
not only is there no source on this, it directly contradicts what cara said about nicole in the infamous stalker posts (she described her as 'small and passes quite well honestly')

>>7389106
>picture an ordinary teenage girl -- i specify adolescent because that's when behavioural sexual dimorphism peaks
>picture the most stereotypical campy queen gay guy you can
>that is your answer
i'm socially maladapted, please explain it for me.

>mannerisms, presentation, etc can all seem uncanny in an agp woman
examples please?

>>7399035
i'm a legit autist and can tell the difference, but essentially flamboyant, effeminate gay men act very differently to women even though their behaviour may be labelled 'feminine'
they have a specific way of speaking (sibilant s, more sing-song speech pattern, etc), a specific way of moving and carrying themselves that's more female than male but not specifically so, and other distinguishing traits
watch some gay youtubers

as for the agp mannerisms (someone is going to yell at me for the source here):
https://sillyolme.wordpress.com/2010/09/24/all-the-wrong-moves/
https://sillyolme.wordpress.com/2012/12/01/the-sound-of-your-voice/

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>>7357282
>>7357241
>>7357218

He's right though. Her head is extremely small and feminine relative to male models, who generally have well developed skulls.

Any picture of her and Lachowski together cracks me up

>>7399353
>(someone is going to yell at me for the source here):

Correct, stop shoving that toxic garbage down everyone's throat, blogger in question is a dried up ol drag queen with anger issues & not to be taken seriously.

>>7399353
>https://sillyolme.wordpress.com/2010/09/24/all-the-wrong-moves/

Tfw I pass around children who don't know me.

There may be something to this though, the only time I got misgendered in the past year or so was by a little kid, but she's known me for a long time.

>>7399353
Why again are you trusting a socially maladapted hon, who lusts over kids for this. He's hardly a human being, let alone a valid authority.

Please give a good link from somebody who isn't a creepy old man, I've got no respect for those creatures.

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>>7399731
You mean a dried up hon man. Who even has the habbit of chasing after young and cute androgynous people.

Reminds me of a lot of old men desu. Only old Hons tend to retcon their homes by claiming to be Tru and simultaneously putting down young and cute people.

>>7357395
>salty west euro hon

>>7385087
>>7402834
what the fuck

full story on him/her please.

>>7402950
Old hon who obsesses over young transitioners and creeps around them. Made up a story about how he's a "trans kid" to cover up HonnessNot actually Trans so you'll need to ask people who know more.

What I do know is that he's one of those old men obsessed about forcing everyone to comply to caricature level steryotypes. What he does is antethical to femboys, and I'm sick of pervertred corrupt old men telling us what to do. We will do whatever we want and laugh at the monsters like him who try and get in our way.

>>7402979
>Old hon who obsesses over young transitioners and creeps around them.
source/example?

>Made up a story about how he's a "trans kid" to cover up Honness
full story?

>>7403042
His entire blog, case study in an old man obsessing over kids. And being preachy and making himself the high preistesess of morality

And look at him, he's obviously a hon and trying to cover up for that and claim he's better than everyone, just like all old hons

>>7403123
>and claim he's better than everyone, just like all old hons
just like the trutrans too

why 'he'?

>>7403147
Because trans women love to invalidate "hons" who resemble what they're terrified to see in the mirror.

>>7403175
>when you always respect pronouns because if you don't why should anyone respect yours

>>7387337
you realize we live our lives interracting with people for more than 5 seconds you dumb retard, yes?

>>7403175
A femboy not a trans woman, I just happen to despise corrupt old pervertred men.

And I hate his kind all the more because their attempts at legitimizing themselves involve interfering with the way I live my life. I owe him nothing.

can you post some dicc?

>>7403464
why 'he'?