/agpg/ - AGP General

Nice meme OP you have a bright future ahead of you as a memestress.

>>7169465
I really, really like this meme. Mind if I save it?

>>7169563
you've met the mind behind the agp meme machine

>>7169617
it's all yours, friend

>>7169627
I made at least one meme myself! I just don't have it anymore, but it was a fine meme.

>haven't had any sexual thoughts for weeks
At least I also haven't had any AGP thoughts, so it's something.

>>7171328
Not that I'm not happy to see you here but if you want to keep it that way avoiding this thread might help haha.

I still can't wrap my head around the toxicity harbored in any sort of lgbt "communities" (read: pit fighting rings).

A*Ps are hated by everyone AND themselves, truscum hate A*P, gays hate bisexual guys, lesbians hate just about everyone.

The mind be boggled, people build spaces where they can discuss and share experiences, and the thing they ALL want to do the most, is peeing in everyone else's coffee.

I really, really, really, really don't get it.

It's just like conservative hatred of anything gay, replicated in numberless miniature versions.

>spending an hour before mirror
>trying to imagine what you'd look like if you were born a girl

s-should I finally buy makeup? Im scared my narcissism will only give me more dysphoria

and finally growing hair and taking care of them was the best decision ever

>>7171427
humans are animals and there is always infighting in groups
also LGBT is artificially forced pile, half these groups have nothing in common besides being a minority, and prejudice towards sex minorities is still a thing almost everywhere, we all grew with it

bisluts are hated cause they always dump gay partners for hetero

>>7171427
I think most lgbt are very self hating and they just project that hate onto other lgbt members

>>7171610
What do you have to lose? Not to mention that you probably have quite a lot to gain from this exploration.

I'm not sure I buy into the the idea of that ignoring your AGP will avoid it developing into (further) dysphoria. I'd think the AGP exists whether you indulge it or not (as opposed to indulgence being the cause of the AGP), and attempting to ignore it is effectively repression. Is tere any evidence of other sexual fetishes or orientations being eliminated by ignoring them? I'm sure many have tried and failed (including for AGP). If you want to manage the feelings then you'd need to directly address them.

I want to say that if your dysphoria does become more intense that it's because you payed attention to it, and it would have happened anyway further down the line had you not have brought it to the forefront, meaning it's better to start early.

>>7171427
Do people really hate each other that much? I thought we were all just shitposting. Idgaf what other people do with their lives

t. cis lesbian

>>7171840
It got worse when I started to indulge in it too much, it used to be nothing more than an exciting fap fantasy.
I'm frankly scared of reoleplaying a girl, I rarely do it in chats or games, it messes with my mind. Better stay in touch with reality.

>be me 20 bi male
>Went out at Halloween in tiger costume with eyeliner whiskers and mascara on my eyelashes C/O friendo.
>look cute as all fuck.
>really fucking pretty.jpg
>Srs. Every pic I look damn gorgeous.
>One girl said she was jealous of my lashes
>Normally not at all fabulous
>got to ironically be super fabulous that night and revel in it because costume

Really fucking good night. Feelsmediumman.jpg because had ton of fun but know I won't have a night that good, looking that pretty again until next september because no lgbt representation where I am right now.

>At the pub yesterday I had a pang of jealousy because friend was playing with her hair and I'll never have pretty hair like that.

I'm not trans, just want to be pretty every now and then and get the shit fucked out of me. Why did I have to move to a place with poor lgbt rep the same year i accepted myself enough to participate in lgbt.

No question to ask. Just rantin'

>>7172059
people hate agps a LOT. you haven't seen? it took a while to even get this gen, and people still toss around agp like it's a tranny insult. it's even worse on leddit and elsewhere

File: 1462573431120.gif (483KB, 500x375px) Image search: [Google]

483KB, 500x375px

Just gonna say that I'm gonna kill myself. I have AGP and transitioned. The AGP is mostly gone now but it's been replaced by dysphoria and an intense self hatred of myself and why I even thought of this in the first place. I've always denied it but recently I've had it drilled into my head and I can't bear the shame and self-loathing over it. It disgusts me to my very core and I can no longer repress all of my memories from before I transitioned.

I'll never be a real woman. I won't even be a real trans woman. I'm just a mentally ill man with a fetish. Thanks to everyone for helping me realize this and shaking me out of my delusion. Hope you all have a nice life.

>>7172892
goodbye, i hope you find peace in nonexistence

are you unpassable and that's why?

>>7172901
I transitioned at 18 and have been living as a woman for the last five years but the damage was already done by the time I came out. I pass somewhat but not under scrutiny. I have huge feet, wide shoulders and a big masculine skull. Hips are kinda wide but the rest of my body is fucked up.

I do get called "ma'am" most of the time when I go out but occasionally people will gender me as male. I've been told that I'm really pretty and other AGP trans women have often told me that they're envious of how I somehow pass so much better than they do and have naturally feminine mannerisms that they can't seem to get down. That's probably all lies and flattering hugboxing tho.

>>7173028
ah, hard for me to have sympathy for someone who transitioned that young and passes. sorry m8

>>7173028
Also, It's not the main reason but it's a pretty big one. Mainly it's just due to the shame and disgust of myself being AGP and having my dysphoria stem from that. I've been reading a lot of TERF rhetoric along with all the talk about AGP on here and it's what sort of drove me into this state. I feel fake compared to other trans women who transitioned younger or pass better or prefer men. I just feel fake in general and I'd rather kill myself than deal with that constant feeling or publicly own up to it and try to rationalize it as something that's okay to have when it's clearly not.

>>7172892

I hope you get reincarnated into a cute tomboy for a change.

Or if that's undesirable, any other afterlife that suits you, if there is any.

Please reflect on it again if you have loved ones.

If you don't, go in peace, sempai.

>>7173104
...And why the fuck have you been reading TERF rhetoric?!!

THOSE girls are really fucked up in their head. Transfeminism is where it's at.

>>7173104
>I've been reading a lot of TERF rhetoric along with all the talk about AGP on here and it's what sort of drove me into this state.
Holy shit, this makes my blood boil. AGP is nothing to be ashamed of and anyone who says differently is an asshole who wants to find someone lower on the totem pole to pick on. You have no less right to be a woman than any other person who identifies as female. You are NOT fake, you are YOU and nobody can take that away from you.

TERFs are fucking idiots, and you can completely discount them... they are literally the same group of people who say that all penetrative sex is rape and men are literally Satan. Every core TERF ideology is totally unsupported by the modern understanding of psychology. If you look past their lies and circular reasoning, you will see them for the hate group they are.

Look, no matter what you are in this world, there are always going to be people who hate you just for being you. There's nothing you can do about that but ignore the ignorant bigots and live your own damn life. Please, for the love of god, do NOT kill yourself because of what ignorant cunts on the Internet are saying. Please, I fucking beg you. You're the only one stopping yourself from living a normal life, because you're listening to what people who hate you for no reason have to say.

>>7173127
>any kind of feminism
>where it's at
top wew lad

>>7173127
>...And why the fuck have you been reading TERF rhetoric?!!

Because I wanted to know how they think and I'm sort of addicted to reading mean opinions about trans people to hurt myself. Don't know why. Turns out a lot of their bullshit has truth to it. Most don't really hate us, it's more just a casual disgust and condescension rather than outright hatred.

>Transfeminism is where it's at.

Are you trying to make me laugh, anon?

>>7173171
>Turns out a lot of their bullshit has truth to it.
No, it fucking doesn't. Try listening to people who know what they're talking about, instead of fat hairy manhating dykes.
>Most don't really hate us, it's more just a casual disgust and condescension rather than outright hatred.
Disgust and condescension are forms of hatred. Don't make excuses for these cunts.

who else here was watching tranny porn and dildoing their butthole when the announcement that they killed bin Laden came through?

>>7173165
It feels like I should be ashamed of it. My dysphoria progressed from a stupid fetish, not an actual brain condition. Why should I be accepted as a woman when not even my dysphoria is genuine? Trutrans at least have a brain structure that's sort of ambiguous while mine would come out no different than a straight man. I occasionally have memories of the stupid shit I used to do as a man and it instantly makes me feel suicidal. I had mild ASD as a child and that also makes me feel worse since AGP and autism are highly correlated. I always get uncomfortable when people ask when and how I realized I was trans. I don't even tell my closest friends about it cause I'm so ashamed of it and feel like they'd instantly see me as a weirdo.

It all just feels fake to me. When I put on a female voice it feels fake. My mannerisms feel fake. When people tell me I pass I don't believe them. When people call me by my preferred name and pronouns it feels like they're patronizing me. Biologically, I literally am a fake woman. I just wish that I could have some claim to authenticity no matter how small it is.

>>7173166
>>7173171

*IF* you are interested in feminism. Which you don't HAVE to, even if I think you actually should.

The point I want to make, is that TERFs are a bunch of raging idiots.

>>7173280

Why do you call it a "stupid fetish" ?
How does this make your dysphoria less real?
I don't buy the "female brain" meme.
Is a trans woman everything you are?

>>7173280
>My dysphoria progressed from a stupid fetish, not an actual brain condition.
You have this backwards. AGP is a manifestation of dysphoria, not the other way around.
>Trutrans at least have a brain structure that's sort of ambiguous while mine would come out no different than a straight man.
The evidence for the 'dimorphic brain' theory is tenuous at best. And even if that theory is true, you have no way of knowing what your brain structure is unless you get it scanned; just because you never realized you were trans until you were older doesn't mean you're not trans at all.
>I occasionally have memories of the stupid shit I used to do as a man and it instantly makes me feel suicidal
Everybody does stupid shit, male and female.
>I had mild ASD as a child and that also makes me feel worse since AGP and autism are highly correlated.
You have/had AGP. Get the fuck over it. Whether that has anything to do with the ASD you supposedly had as a child is completely immaterial to how you live your life going forward. It is nothing to be ashamed of and it does not make you any less genuine. The stigma on this board is frankly disgusting.
>I always get uncomfortable when people ask when and how I realized I was trans. I don't even tell my closest friends about it cause I'm so ashamed of it and feel like they'd instantly see me as a weirdo.
Fun fact: the whole 'knew since birth' narrative was largely fabricated by psychologists, and the only reason trans people parrot it is because it was one of the hoops you had to jump through to get treatment. Dysphoria emerging during/past puberty is actually thought to be equally common if not moreso.
>It all just feels fake to me
That's understandable; you've been reading shit posted by people who fucking hate you and you've been believing it.
>When I put on a female voice it feels fake.
Everybody hates the sound of their own voice. Everybody.
>My mannerisms feel fake.
You're being hypercritical.
(1/2)

>>7173280
>My dysphoria progressed from a stupid fetish, not an actual brain condition. Why should I be accepted as a woman when not even my dysphoria is genuine? Trutrans at least have a brain structure that's sort of ambiguous while mine would come out no different than a straight man.
Do you actually feel aroused just at the idea of being a woman? Or do you just naturally see yourself as a woman in your sexual fantasies and feel aroused by the other things that are happening in them? A lot of people here like to push the idea that just being a trans lesbian means it must be some sort of fetish, but I don't think that's necessarily true- there are plenty of bi and lesbian cis women, so it seems silly to think that you can't be mentally female simply because you're attracted to other women. Heck, a ton of lesbians tend to have more masculine habits and mannerisms, so I don't even think that sort of thing is evidence one way or the other.
While I do think that some people transition for purely fetishistic reasons, I don't think it's nearly as common as many people here like to think, nor is it automatically indicated by your sexuality.

>>7173280
>>7173391
(2/2)
>When people tell me I pass I don't believe them.
Post photos/vocaroo here, or if you don't feel like doing that email me at [email protected]. I won't hugbox you, I swear. If you're getting gendered female in real life, you probably pass.
>When people call me by my preferred name and pronouns it feels like they're patronizing me.
Again, that makes sense because you feel fake because you've been listening to people who hate you.
>Biologically, I literally am a fake woman.
Nope. Here's something that might cheer you up: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Complete_androgen_insensitivity_syndrome
There are people who are born with the exact same biological makeup as you, but because their androgen receptors are defective they never masculinize. These people are assigned female at birth (and therefore cis women), despite having XY chromosomes, no womb, and ACTUAL TESTES. In other words, there's no such thing as a 'real' woman, biologically speaking. The only argument TERFs have left is the socialization argument, and that bullshit can be disproven easily - all you have to do is ask 'if a girl is raised as male does that make her not a girl' and watch them trip over themselves.
> I just wish that I could have some claim to authenticity no matter how small it is.
See above.

>>7172892
How exactly are you mentally ill man with a fetish if you no longer experience that fetish, do experience a certain amount of dysphoria and have transitioned? In what sense are you not a real transwoman?

>>7173104
There is ZERO (0) proof that dysphoria stems from AGP. Blanchard found that the two often appear together but correlation does not imply causation. It could very well be the other way around, with AGP stemming from dysphoria. The truth is that we don't actually know and anyone who tells you otherwise is lying to you for their own benefit.

Listening to TERFs as a transwoman is like listening to the KKK as a black person. It won't do you any good and everyone but rednecks see them as despicable dimwits. The difference between those groups and the Anon shitters you've been listening to is that not even rednecks like the latter. Don't get memed.

In what sense is seeking your happiness not okay?

Either way, please don't harm yourself. You've come this far. This is not the time to give up. Steel yourself, surround yourself with people you like, and live on. Believe in yourself. You can do this.

>>7173165
Also listen to this.

>>7171427
To be fair, bisexuals are disgusting.

>>7173391
>That's understandable; you've been reading shit posted by people who fucking hate you and you've been believing it.
Not the woman you're responding to but frankly I've started to feel like this board does far more harm than good to most of its users. It is painful to know most of them can't (won't) get help anywhere else so all they have is a few decent people and a horde of idiots intent on making them feel awful. It feels like there's little we can do to help them because no matter what we say it will get drowned out by the rest.

>>7173171
Oh god that's like if african trying to read KKK pamphlets and buying into it starting to think he is not a real human being.

I know you can feel bad about yourself from depression and then hatefull bullshit will only play into it and make you feel much worse. Throw it away and don't berate yourself out of THEIR prejudice and bigotry. Dont project it on yourself. You owe them nothing.

>>7173940
Yet the good outweighs the bad by far and where else would you go if you are feeling ashamed or insecure you would't even want to attach a profile and nickname to your posts. You wont fit into trans communities that have prejudice against AGP. And fetish forums arent for discussing and finding help on gender issues either.
Anonymous boards and this thread in particular help me a lot (though sometimes you get confused by conflicting opinions and vastly varied personal experiences). And haters are easy to brush off

>>7172892
reading this (and your other posts) made me sad

for me transitioning feels like almost the only reason I HAVE to live...I hope I'm not making a mistake

is getting married to a guy out of the question for you? that's how I see my future, even though I'm mostly attracted to women now

>>7174119
I've seen quite a few people who were negatively affected by things they were told on this board. Even this thread, which is better than most, has people who say harmful things. Fuck, someone just posted about how they're suicidal and a bunch of people went "goodbye lol".

>>7174182
There are people who transitioned and went on to be happy. You won't see many of them here though. We self-select for misery.

>>7174329
someone always happens to be an ass, but look how this could be the only place where one would confess their feels and get support and reasonable opinions that can help to reflect on situation.
you cant reveal it to anyone personally when you hate yourself and convinced that everyone would find you a disgusting pervert too, but here you can do it anonymously to those who can relate

>>7173399
>Or do you just naturally see yourself as a woman in your sexual fantasies and feel aroused by the other things that are happening in them?
I do that. What does it mean?

>>7173336
>The point I want to make, is that TERFs are a bunch of raging idiots.

I guess so. Everything you've said is compelling but their rhetoric seems so as well. I don't really feel interested in feminism but the way they try to deconstruct gender and why trans people are the way they are draws my attention. I should probably just avoid their bullshit altogether since it's fucking with my head.

>Why do you call it a "stupid fetish" ?

The shit I used to masturbate to is stupid. All the stupid feminization porn and trap/futa stuff disgusts me now for a myriad of reasons. I feel that if I hadn't picked up porn my dysphoria would have never manifested or progressed.

I was a pretty normalish guy before transition with very few to no signs of dysphoria or GNC behavior. Only things I can remember is one occasion where I asked my mother if I could wear dresses like my sisters did when we went to church. Other than that, I always felt a little jealous towards girls or feminine boys in combination with feeling attracted to them. Puberty and bullying made me feel like shit about my body and I developed BDD and an eating disorder. After a while I started to hate my masculine characteristics and wanted to emulate an androgynous aesthetic. Lived as a NEET for several years and developed an internet porn habit. I found 3d "trap" and "shemale" porn and idk something just clicked. The initial arousal was always accompanied by this intense jealousy and regret that remained long after I was done masturbating. I didn't think such a thing was even possible until then. Within a year it became unbearable and I transitioned after being hospitalized for a suicide attempt and being diagnosed with GID.

I never tell anyone this cause it all looks so stupid. All it looks like is that I'm basically the classic stereotype of a failed beta male transitioning to fulfill a fetish and get away from male expectations.

>>7173399
I don't really feel aroused at the core idea of being a woman, I just feel better imagining myself as one. All of my sexual fantasies are focused more on the other parties and what they're doing to me. Only for a brief period did I get off on the idea but it was always in the context of a sexual encounter. Now, after I transitioned, I just imagine myself as I am in sexual fantasies.

>>7174824
that's barely even agp

>>7174708
Maybe I'm totally misunderstanding the concept behind AGP here, but I thought it was based around idea of it was having a fetish for seeing yourself as a woman. If your self-image is just naturally female and that doesn't seem to do anything for you sexually on its own, then it doesn't really sound like its a fetish- it just sounds perfectly normal for both cis and trans women.
As I said in my previous post, I think that a lot of people on this board falsely assume an MtF must be AGP if they're bi or lesbian, or if they didn't experience dysphoria from an extremely young age or whatever, and I don't think that's necessarily always the case.
To me it doesn't sound like you're AGP (nothing wrong with it if you were, but that's the impression I get), so maybe you should rethink your feelings on the issue, especially since they seem to be causing you a lot of distress.

>>7174779
You've literally been diagnosed with GID. How much more legit can you get?
I seriously doubt porn as a factor because I recall thinking this sort of thoughts long before I started consuming pornography, or even knew I had a sexuality. So did a ton of other people in this thread. We're talking kids as young as 6. I find it hard to believe transness is not innate.

>>7174824
This is NOT AGP. Cis women do the exact same thing. This is natural for someone who identifies as a woman. You'd need to get off to these fantasies in a way cis women don't for it to count as AGP.

>>7173280
>My dysphoria progressed from a stupid fetish, not an actual brain condition
Those are the same thing fundamentally, and whether it counts as a "condition" is only whether it's pathological, which in this case it clearly is (at least because of social pressure, if not anything inherent).

>>7173391
>>7173429
Also also these posts are great and you shouldn't progress before responding to them.

>>7174840
well AGP is also perfectly normal for trans women

>>7174779
>I feel that if I hadn't picked up porn my dysphoria would have never manifested or progressed.
I doubt that's the case, any more than how gay guys who try to repress by ignoring their thoughts and avoiding gay porn still have their feelings escalate over time.

AGP in cases like your goes beyond a sexual fetish, and is more like an orientation. Like any other sexual orientation (or fetish, for that matter), you don't have a choice whether you have it, and it's not inherently bad or shameful.

>>7174779
>>7174873
To add on to this, the fat that your feelings seemingly started when you first experienced the porn doesn't necessarily imply that the porn was the cause of the feelings; it's not unreasonable to think that it simply brought the feelings to the forefront (which would have happened anyway).

>>7174864
>>7174873
Different person. My enormous problem with the whole "AGP is an orientation" shtick is that it doesn't actually stick around that often after you transition. The reasoning that this is because the individual's sex drive and thus AGP are nuked by hormones is not at all reasonable when you consider the fact that many transwomen are very sexually active at that point, with some becoming more so. IMO you can be cis or trans, and while AGP appears more often alongside transness it doesn't change whether you're trans or not in any meaningful fashion.

>>7173391
>>7173429
I'm not so sure whether the dysphoria came first is true in my case. Part of me feels like that's just a rationalization to avoid the shame of having your dysphoria stem from a fetish, but I want to believe it.

I guess a lot of your points make sense. I know how TERFs would counteract the CAIS argument, however. They'd say that we're appropriating a medical condition to justify self-identifying as a woman and that we are not intersex to any degree. As for the socialization part, they'd argue that every female undergoes is because they can't hide it and things like menstruation, being sexualized at a young age and having to worry about male predators are universal and essential to womanhood. For CAIS women, they'd probably accept them as women because they underwent the same socialization and were assigned female at birth, but there would be a layer of condescension or alienation over the fact that they have male parts and never went through menstruation.

I kinda feel embarrassed that I know so much about how their rhetoric works.

>Post photos/vocaroo here, or if you don't feel like doing that email me at [email protected]. I won't hugbox you, I swear. If you're getting gendered female in real life, you probably pass.

Not sure if I'm comfortable with doing either of those considering the context of this conversation. I have friends who browse /lgbt/ and I'd feel horribly embarrassed if they saw my pics in this gen or if someone got a hold of them and stared posting them in hon threads to mock me. I already know what my problem areas are. My face is masculine and my voice is still clockable. I only pass in conditions where people either aren't paying much attention or they have no idea how to clock a trans woman because they've never seen one in person.

>>7174902
Why do you think that your dysphoria stemmed from the fetish and not that your fetish stemmed from repression?

>>7174895
well whatever you call it it's still normal. i suspect a lot more normal than what people let on because they've had it beaten into their heads that it's wrong

>>7174902
>>7174911
it doesn't even matter what "came first"
in the case that it happened, dysphoria spawning from a fetish is no less real than any other dysphoria

>>7174182
>>7172892 here. I can't really tell you whether or not transition is the best thing for you, that's something you need to decide on yourself depending on your goals and desired outcome.
What I can tell you that is that personally, despite all the depression, I don't regret transitioning. Even if my body and mind are still shit, they've both come a long way and I'm glad that I could at least change my life to some degree. Plus I have many friends who I love that I wouldn't have met if I didn't transition and happy memories with them that I couldn't give up.

If you're going to go into it just be sure to come to terms with the possibility that not everything will necessarily change or get better on it's own. You have to really work for it and commit to it. If you really dislike being masculine and have dysphoria, I'd say it's helpful to at least take blockers and hormones to counteract that as it buys time for you to make up your mind and you won't feel worse by aging as a man.

Social transition takes time to build yourself up to so don't feel obligated to jump into it immediately. I was on HRT for over 2 years before I actually started socially transitioning irl.

>is getting married to a guy out of the question for you?

Not entirely, though it seems unlikely. I am physically attracted to men to some degree but I've never actually been with one romantically and I'm more comfortable with either trans or cis women.

>>7174911
>>7174922
I really don't know anymore. Maybe because once I found the porn stuff it all just blew up in my face and turned into full blown dysphoria. Before that, I didn't really like being a boy or a man but I didn't feel like a girl either. There were a lot of physical and social aspects I disliked, the physical parts mostly coming during puberty. For a long time, I just thought that there was nothing I could really do about it besides trying make the best of it. When I learned that transition was a thing, and that it didn't necessarily make you into a man in a dress like they showed on TV, I just had this rush of regret and envy for not knowing sooner which later drove me to attempt suicide because I felt that it was too late.

I guess it doesn't matter in the long run. No one will really ever know how I became the person I am today. I probably won't either.

Honestly, I didn't expect this much support from everyone here. It's certainly helped a lot and I appreciate everyone's input. If anyone's concerned, I fell asleep for a bit and have decided that I'm not going to go commit suicide. At least not for now. I've thought about seeing a therapist but I feel way too embarrassed and ashamed to speak about this openly and risk potentially being judged or hospitalized for suicidal thoughts.

>>7175134
>hormones at 18 and still whining about being "late"
srsly fuck off m8

>>7175134
Thank you very much for listening. I'm very glad to hear that you're feeling somewhat better. From everything you've told us your desires sounds legitimate and certainly not reducible to some purely sexual motivation. Please believe in yourself. Please get better.

>>7175161
Stop implying that sexual motivation is illegitimate.

>>7175177
I'm sorry if I offended you. As I see it dysphoria itself is not focused on sexual activities so anyone who transitioned as a result of experiencing dysphoria necessarily didn't do so for a purely sexual reason. She sounded worried that her actions were motivated by a fetish which, given everything else she has mentioned, isn't true.

>>7175238
Instead of saying "it's irrelevant," you're saying "you weren't motivated by a fetish," which implies that the latter is wrong or bad. Stop that.

>>7175294
Do you think that one can be transsexual without experiencing dysphoria? I think whether or not you experience the fetish is irrelevant to you being or not being trans, and I don't think experiencing it is bad, but I also don't think it can ever be a dysphoria sufferer's sole motivation or a root cause.

>>7174840
>To me it doesn't sound like you're AGP
Well, what then? Keep in mind I wasn't that other dude, I just piggybacked off the post.
>>7174824
This is basically how I feel, minus the transitioning. At first I found it hot imagining myself as a girl, now it's only hot imagining myself as a girl having normal sex.

>>7175329
>Well, what then? Keep in mind I wasn't that other dude, I just piggybacked off the post.
Judging from your other post it just sounded like you're probably just a "normal" MtF, though judging by
>At first I found it hot imagining myself as a girl
its possible it might be AGP, though its difficult to say which- I'd guess normal MtF if it was just a temporary thing and if picturing yourself as a girl in an everyday situation just seems normal rather than a sexual thing now.
Either way though, it might be a good idea to talk to a therapist who specializes in this sort of thing, and you can still transition if you want regardless of whether you're AGP or not, I suppose it doesn't make a huge difference.

Err, that's all assuming you feel uncomfortable with your body of course, I just kind of assumed given the context

>>7173837
>Listening to TERFs as a transwoman is like listening to the KKK as a black person
THIS.
>>7173922
And why is that?
>>7174119
This. Where the fuck else are we going to talk about this shit? Most trans with public projection / agenda hate us. Normies don't understand. Just about everyone would rather not know, and the "fetish" word makes us marked wo/men.

>>7174779
>I don't really feel interested in feminism but the way they try to deconstruct gender
I already told you. Transfeminism or drop it altogether.
>The shit I used to masturbate to is stupid. All the stupid feminization porn and trap/futa stuff disgusts me now for a myriad of reasons.
Care to elaborate on why is it stupid and why does it disgust you? Otherwise you're just berating something you're into for no apparent reason.
>I'm basically the classic stereotype of a failed beta male transitioning to fulfill a fetish and get away from male expectations.
Wow sis you really need to stop incorporating into your thought-patterns rethoric that goes against you from the get-go.
1: The alpha-beta shit is just another way the stereotypical neanderthal machos have devised to keep a boot on everyone's heads.
2: What's so wrong with telling "male expectations" to take a hike? Play team sports, be an asshole to everyone who doesn't bend your way and/or is physically not as strong as you, disregard your own safety, participate in all sorts of stupid pissing contests, constantly vye for supremacy among your peers.
Is that what you want to do? I'll tell you in one word:

NO.
>>7174895
A*P *definitely* doesn't always come with trans. I know several examples of AAP ladies who aren't trans by any stretch of the word.

>>7174902
>Not sure if I'm comfortable with doing either of those considering the context of this conversation.
That's wise. I know I wouldn't ever post that kind of thing in here.

>>7175319
I don't see why it couldn't be. And no, dysphoria is the characteristic that implies being trans. But it seems that you suggest that a sexual motivation is inconsistent with dysphoria or being trans, and by entertaining the thought that AGP delegitimizes any dysphoria or transness we cause harm. That's one of the purposes of this general anyway, to combat the "ur not tran ur just a apg fetishist!!" narrative that is pervasive. When someone appears and starts saying things like "well i thought i was trans but it seems like i'm just agp" when they present with dysphoria and something that isn't agp but might be confused for such, I think >>7175161 is the wrong response as it suggests that sexual motivations delegitimize dysphoria.

>>7175575
That wasn't my intention and I'm sorry if I came off as saying that.

>>7175478
>I already told you. Transfeminism or drop it altogether.

Doesn't transfeminism have a lot of flaws such as outright denying that AGP even exists?

>Care to elaborate on why is it stupid and why does it disgust you?

Imo it's almost always in bad taste, objectifying and sexist in nature. "Shemale" and "trap" porn in particular trigger my dysphoria for some reason. Probably cause of how there's so much focus is put on the trans woman's penis and having her use it for penetrative sex on cis men and women. Idk I dislike most porn in general now cause of how unrealistic and dispassionate it usually is. My sex drive is way different from what it was five years ago so there's that also.

>Wow sis you really need to stop incorporating into your thought-patterns rethoric that goes against you from the get-go.

I guess I should stop. I don't really see anything wrong with rejecting male expectations but a lot of people would use my story to tell me that I should just stay a feminine man or that I'm not really trans or a woman. It's just a source of insecurity.

Hello sisters, brothers, and everything in between.

I think there's a kink in our understanding of A*P that needs to be ironed out. That is - what do we mean when we say "fetish". Bear in mind that I'm pulling the examples out of thin air (or rather, out of my accumulated knowledge of pr0n and sexuality)

Fetish, in a broad sense, means some activity or feature in partners that one finds particularly sexually attractive, such as:
"I have a fetish for small tits"
"You have to admit you have a fetish for freckled girls"
"Mary has a fetish for thick hair chest"
"I have a fetish for huge dicks"
"You really have a fetish for interracial porn"
"John has a fetish for lingerie, it's his largest porn folder!"

...actually this is more like a sweet spot, the word "fetish" is used in this kind of context to denote that the attraction is indeed sexual, and towards a particular thing which other people might find attractive or not, which is either sexual in itself, or a feature of desired sexual partners, without coloring your entire sexual life.

Fetish, in a technical sense, which we can equate to paraphilia, means some sort of activity or object that one can't do without, in order to enjoy any sexual act:
"I have a submission fetish"
"You totally have a fetish for latex, it's the ONLY thing in your porn folder"
"Jill has a fetish for muscular men, she won't even look twice at any guy not on steroids"
"I have a fetish for blond girls, it's the only thing that turns me on"
"Do you have a fetish for asian guys? I've never seen you date anything else"
"Mark has a chastity fetish, the thing he enjoys the most is being denied sexual pleasure and release"

...these kind of fetishes mediate all sorts of possible attraction, if we get really strict they must be something that is NOT sexual in itself (unlike in the examples I gave), and whoever has them can't do without them - that is, they're the inmovable keystone of their sexuality.

Is AAP even a thing when all the women casually wear man-style clothes all the time anyway, be it jeans or shirts and sexy male clothes are almost non-existent. What are they left with, stick-on beards and fantasies?

>>7175815
Clothes aren't necessary, just like they aren't for AGP, but they can still be involved even if it's more socially acceptable for women to "cross-dress". "Fantasies" kind of covers it; it's generally being male/masculine.

>>7175831
They almost cant cross-dress at all, they would be just putting on oversized equivalents of their normal clothes. I dont underestimate the power of imagination, but being able to enact and transform into opposite gender by means of clothes and makeup has a mindblowing effect. Also there is the arousal part, the combination of boys hypersexuality and women sexy lingerie creates is so strong no wonder it can turn into a compulsive fetish.
And poor girls are left with slow sex drive and what, dull male socks and boxers? I bet AGP men to AAP women ratio is like 100:1

>>7175902
A*P is not transvestic fetishism, it is much more than that though it may include it. There are plenty of ways to stimulate AAP without clothes, and regardless, it will still be there without ways to stimulate it.

Do you want me to just list things A*Ps can do other than crossdressing?

The reduced sex drive probably has some impact, but there are still women with heavy sex drives. Also, a heavy sex drive is not necessary to have a strong, life-impacting fetish; it can still deeply work its way into your life even if you're not masturbating to it all the time.

Because no-one wants to admit to being A*P, and because in Blanchard's typology AAPs don't exist, you're not going to be able to measure the populations effectively. I'd imagine that the extreme lack of publicity for AAP means there are proportionally many more AAPs who don't know it (or don't know it exists at all) compared to AGPs.

Is there anyone here who's AGP but NOT interested in transition? Where AGP doesn't affect your day to day life?

>>7175902
>>7175972

Cis AAP ladies are actually quite common.

I feel like this can't be stressed enough.

Cross-gendered self-image ideations, early wishes of being a boy, internally regarding themselves as men in some sense, and desire to play the "male" role in sexual relations are surprisingly common in cissexual females.

But, a cissexual woman doesn't even HAVE to crossdress. They can more or less just pick and choose cross-gendered items, interests and behaviors to the extent they feel satisfied, through their formative years and beyond, and reach a balance where they can feel like themselves, at home in their bodies, and animating their bodies in a way they feel comfortable.

...granted, for some of them that won't be enough, but for others it IS enough - accessible outlets for non-stereotypical behaviors instead of plain repression and social image damage.

Compare a butch heterosexual woman who eventually marries and has children, with an effeminate heterosexual man who eventually marries and has children.

The woman has probably endured less picking on, less social stigma, and suspicions of her being a lesbian all but dissipate after marriage and reproduction.

The man will probably have endured much more picking on and social stigma, AND people will still suspect him of being gay EVEN AFTER longstanding, happy marriage and successful child-rearing.

AGPs have no way to fulfill their desires in their early years, short of secretly crossdressing, thus preventing them from finding any potential non-stereotypical equilibrium; which makes dysphoria, neglected desires, repression and self-hatred pile upon themselves over the years until eventually they reach transsexual levels and the only options are transition or suicide.

TL;DR: Boys aren't allowed to emulate women, for some people this is an actual deep-seated need and denying it has far-reaching consequences.

>>7176635

Me. I'm AGP but I'm not interested in transitioning.

At least in transitioning to a woman. If I could present as fully andro, now that would be something else - but it's not a burning, all-consuming desire, more like a pipe dream. Still I think I should get at least a little bit closer to that ideal, even if it's unattainable, because I know it'd make me happier in a very deep sense, even if only slightly, and would probably prevent me from feeling worse when I'm older.

If you want details on how it is for me, I can tell you.

>>7176661
>But, a cissexual woman doesn't even HAVE to crossdress. They can more or less just pick and choose cross-gendered items

I question that statement since using/wearing unisex does almost nothing in satisfying the need for 'genderswapping'. I casually wore some womens unisex clothes without feeling any effect, they just had cool design and fit me well cause Im skinny. I didnt think of them as women's or that they make me fem.
You need something distinctively belonging to opposite gender to make you feel like it and to give you happy excitement of living your dream.

Funny I cant recall knowing any butch heterosexual girls, but knew few lesbian ones. I knew one girl who liked to borrow and wear her bf shirts, was that AAP or more for feeling connected to him by sharing cothes.

>>7176702
I'd say I feel the same, but sometimes I question would I think differently if I head a realistic shot at it.

>>7176809

I do acknowledge the fact that my understanding of these matters is to some extent flawed and incomplete - just like everyone's.

That something is enough for them doesn't mean it is enough for you, or enough for everyone. What I wanted to point out is that for the guys that such a thing would be enough, they rarely have the chance or leeway to do so.

If you don't identify those clothing items you mentioned as "girl stuff" or "things you like", you certainly aren't going to derive any pleasure or relief from using them.

I myself DON'T like makeup. Not on myself, not on the girls I like. I like clear-faced girls. This is not to say I CAN'T like a girl on makeup - this means that I might like a girl despite the makeup. I like lip gloss and lipstick a bit more, and thus it feels more tempting - on others and on myself. Especially clear gloss and blue or green lipstick. Go figure.

Just the same, I like smooooooth girls, but hairy girls don't gross me out. In fact I find that some girls who make a point of not shaving their legs do have pretty hair on their legs.

When I've tried on a skirt, it did nothing for me. I suspect that for some odd reason, a dress would be different, but I have yet to find a dress I can fit.

All in all, I have almost no interest in crossdressing - although I'd do it without a second thought if requested by a sexual partner, have fantasized about it sporadically, and will probably try it just for kicks when I live in a house on my own.

OTOH, I do get a thrill out of borrowing more unisex female clothing, feel disappointed and ashamed when it doesn't look on me as I hoped it would; same with certain other accessories.

>>7176847
Yeah, same here. I also think that if I had known about this all this shit earlier in my life, I'd probably have become dead-set on looking as androgynous as possible. I don't think I'd have taken a different course, I think I'd have taken the same course but earlier and more purposefully.

>>7173280

>I had mild ASD as a child and that also makes me feel worse since AGP and autism are highly correlated.

According to Dr. Norman Spack, programs aimed at treating trans people as children tend to report around 10% of their patients have autism. Look him up on Youtube and watch his Ted talk.

>>7178065
Yeah, and they're often turned away from being put on blockers cause they don't know whether it's just a phase manifesting from their autism or legit dysphoria.

>>7174902
>I know how TERFs would counteract the CAIS argument, however. They'd say that we're appropriating a medical condition to justify self-identifying as a woman and that we are not intersex to any degree.
Yeah and they'd be talking out their arseholes. Using an established medical condition to show there is precedent for chromosomes not being infallible gender indicators is not appropriation in any way shape or form.
> As for the socialization part, they'd argue that every female undergoes is because they can't hide it and things like menstruation, being sexualized at a young age and having to worry about male predators are universal and essential to womanhood. For CAIS women, they'd probably accept them as women because they underwent the same socialization
Once again, the socialization argument is complete shit. Ask a TERF what would happen if a parent raised their female baby as a male, and their male baby as a female. Putting hormone tablets in their food, etc. Watch them implode as they try to come up with an internally consistent answer - I had somebody literally try to argue that if you took a baby girl and raised her as a man, then even if she didn't accept this as an adult she still wouldn't be a "real womyn". These people are FUCKING CRAZY, do not listen to them at all.

>tfw agp but crossdressing makes me dysphoric
i cant even indulge in it

>>7179559
time to get on your meds, young lady

>>7179257
Actual arguments and logic are secondary when all you want is pick on/lash out at people.

Also I might be delusional, but I don't think the AGP and rapist mentalities overlap much...

>>7180157
Is anyone here not a sub?

>>7175815
aap is very much a phenomenon
t. ftm
i'm 18 and most of the trans guys around my age i've met are aap
and yes, aap ftm-crossdresses absolutely exist -- what do you think 'genderfluidity' is? it was invented by people who didn't realize that 'crossdresser' is the accurate term for their experiences. they are exactly identical to agp mtf-crossdressers, with borderline dysphoric experiences that fluctuate in intensity that are surprisingly easy to attach alter egos to, and like agp mtf-crossdressers a subset eventually progress to true sex discordance.

>>7180168
What kind of gross fetishist wouldn't be a sub?

>>7180180
How do you know they are AAP and not simply presenting as male completely out of sexual context?

>>7180638
I cant afford subscription Carlos.gif
so Im a switch

>>7180704
i can't know for 100% certain without asking point blank and most young trannies don't even know a*p exists so i wouldn't get far
but the circumstantial evidence in every case lines up -- sexuality, chosen gender presentation, interests (yaoi, bandom), everything completely aligns with what is known about aap

>>7175779
This distinction makes a great deal of sense. The odd thing about AGP-like arousal though is that it is not truly immovable, as evidenced by most long-term transitioners remaining sexually active after it is no longer a factor.

Can I just become asexual and get over with it?

>>7180985
sure, cut off your balls

>>7178978
Isn't the whole point of being but on just blockers so that you can wait and tell whether it's a phase?

Let's try something different. How many of you are happy or at least content?

>>7181833
I feel I could be content if I found something I actually care about

Can you have AGP if you like boys?

>Tfw no qt boy to fuck while he is wearing panties, skirts, etc
Pulling underwear to the side and fucking is my fetish

>>7181914
I think so, as long as all of the usual AGP stuff also arouses you.

>>7181914
You can but it tends to be less common

>>7181919
Wrong thread m80

>>7181925
>>7181921

Guess I'm a mix between AGP and trutrans

>>7181940
Uhh OK
I mean agp is independent of orientation
But it really doesn't matter "what you are"

Cool German Lady, are you still busy with university work or are you shrinking your duty to science?

>>7182170
>Shrinking
ffffff shirking**

>>7180180
>>7180180
You sound the same as someone further up, but you're spot on.

Also, A*P can actually be "read" whether they're trans or not. Harder, but possible. More of a long-time observation than instant clocking thing.

AAP ladies have a tendency to spontaneously fess up under the right circumstances, and I've done it too.

>>7180926
You're right, in a sense, but couldn't we interpret the same facts as the fetish condition being permanently satisfied?

>>7181953
...except when it's intertwined with orientation.

>>7182198
>You're right, in a sense, but couldn't we interpret the same facts as the fetish condition being permanently satisfied?
That's a reasonable argument if we look at cases where someone's A*P was exclusively focused on having the right sort of body or being treated as a member of the "other" gender, but does not explain gender-adjacent triggers such as "cross-dressing" or behaving in a stereotypically masculine/feminine manner no longer arousing the individual.

>>7182250

But permanent arousal is not sustainable, if sustainable it's not comfortable, if sustainable and comfortable it's rapidly detrimental to the individual's health. And here we don't even have a permanent source of physical stimulation.

Genital / nipple piercings: Can be a source of permanent or semi-permanent physical stimulation, AFAIK the individual eventually builds some resistance to the stimulation, either physiologically or psychologically, and in all likelihood at least occasionally removes the piercings for maintenance and hygiene, and probably to avoid discomfort in some occasions .

Persistent genital arousal syndrome and priapism: No external source of physical stimulation, but it is a physiological condition. Reported as distracting, uncomfortable and even painful (this last item especially in priapism)

Abuse of spinal stimulation orgasm-enabling devices: In some cases where this sort of device has been used, the patient repeatedly activated the machine, giving themselves immediate orgasm after immediate orgasm. It is safe to assume that between orgasms the patient was in a permanent state of arousal (or wouldn't have desired or endured further orgasms). In these cases arousal was sustained and not comfortable, but the individual stopped paying attention to basic needs.

In the case of

>gender-adjacent triggers such as "cross-dressing" or behaving in a stereotypically masculine/feminine manner no longer arousing the individual.

the individual no longer experiences the previous levels of arousal because it would be unsustainable, since it has become a long-term condition; what the individual experiences is probably a heightened level of baseline sexual satisfaction; maybe comparable to the experience of someone who previously didn't have an active sexual life and now does.

The activities you mention probably remain enjoyable in and of themselves, but aren't salient against the enhanced/restored level of baseline sexual satisfaction

>>7182355
Correction:

"In these cases arousal was sustained and not uncomfortable"

>>7181833
Im BPD or something, also a bit tispy so Im feeling good right now
I wish I had someone to hug though

>>7181833
Me am.

Being a guy is not horrible, but I still feel cheated out of one half of life.

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>>7182170
Nah, I have a bit of down time right now. I'll get to it after I grab some dinner.

Anyone have ideas for what I should include on the survey? A non-inclusive list of what I've been thinking so far (many will include an N/A option):

>current age
>age of first AGP thoughts
>age of first dysphoria
>age of first gender bending thoughts
>age of transition
>how long it took for AGP thoughts to disappear
>any suspected or diagnosed ASD
>any other disorders? Not quite sure what to ask here
>preferred outlet for agp (eg. Transition, crossdressing, hentai, fantasies etc.)
>amount of dyphoria you experience
>if you have transitioned, how well do you pass?
>have you transitioned or would you like to if magically you could pass

That's all I can think of while I'm hungry. I'll come up with more later in an hour. Any input is greatly appreciated.

>>7182484

Is this oriented solely toward trans AGP?
Can AAP participate too?
Why?

>input
>disorders?

Social anxiety, depersonalization disorders, eating disorders, depression, addictions?

Can't give very solid reasons, just flailing at the wind here.

>>7182537
shiaaaat forgot to drop trip @/////@

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>>7182537
It doesn't necessarily have to be, but I must admit that I know little about AAP and thus would not be able design a good survey including that.

Speaking of that though, would anyone be down to try and make these threads more inclusive of AAP? As a related paraphilia/condition, I think it could be fairly valuable to have their voices here.

Anyway, other survey questions I came up with in the past 20 minutes:
>pre-transition (or current) gender expression (on scale of masc to fem)
>gender expression as a young child (on same scale)
>transitioned gender expression (on same scale)
>amount of bullying/shaming experienced for gender expression as child (on scale of 0-9)
>current sexuality (including options for meta attraction to men or women)
>transitioned sexuality
>amount of AGP feelings remaining post transition (if applicable)

>>7182484
Nice job. Maybe add some questions about whether you've undergone therapy and the effectiveness of said therapy? I can't think of much else. One thing I'll note is that answering the question about when I first experienced dysphoria would be quite difficult for me. I spent a long time repressing and lying to myself that this was just a kink and I was very unhappy during that period but I can't tell whether that was due to dysphoria or something else. I only consciously realized something was wrong a few years ago. The question is still worth asking though. I can't think of a way to improve it.

>>7182611
>Speaking of that though, would anyone be down to try and make these threads more inclusive of AAP? As a related paraphilia/condition, I think it could be fairly valuable to have their voices here.
I fully support this idea. We have a few AAP regulars anyhow. It is only decent to accommodate them.

>Gender expression
Make sure that you're very clear about what you mean when you use that term.

>>7182611
>It doesn't necessarily have to be, but I must admit that I know little about AAP and thus would not be able design a good survey including that.

I'd say formulate the questions in terms that are gender-neutral or relative to assigned-at-birth-gender, add a tick box to check whether the informant is AAP or AGP and pat yourself on the head.

If you aren't immediately interested processing the data from the AAP informants you can set them aside and at least you'll have collected it for future use; if the proportion of AAP informants is not significant, you have collected anecdotal/qualitative evidence.

>would anyone be down to try and make these threads more inclusive of AAP?
A merger was proposed before and I'm all for it, but I warn you that there's some old fart around that will whine, scream and curse at the idea of opening this space - read: you'll be almost duplicating the thread since at least one person will take the pains to keep posting this thread in its current form. Adding a "honourable mention" to AAP in the OP would likely fare better, but I feel like it would be "not enuff", and anyways that anon might keep reverting it or duplicating it if the new version doesn't suit their taste.

What role do AGPers usually take in relationships/sex? I'm confused about my sexuality as AGP stuff is the only thing that gets me aroused

I'm sure I'd look so damn good, but I have no money for clothes or makeup.
I'm also really bad at starting new things, been thinking about this for a few years now and seeing all the "is it too late" posts kind of scare me

>>7183363

If you're worried about it being or becoming too late for you, you should worry more about getting the money for HRT or at least anti-androgens together than for make-up and clothes.

>>7183361
transbians
didnt you prefer to watch lesbian porn selfinsetring as one of the girls?

>>7183389
I don't live in the third world, I'll get those for free if I need them. The thing is I'm so uncertain of what I actually want. Right now I'm more comfortable with my looks than ever before, maybe HRT isn't even for me, I mean in the end I'm only looking to be myself in a way that satisfies me.

Not really sure where I was going with my posts

>>7183436

If you're not concerned with preserving your ability to impregnate, you should get on anti-androgens until you figure yourself out. If you realize your trans, you'll thank yourself for at least doing anti-androgens, and if you realize you're not trans, no harm done.

>>7183412
No, I don't really self-insert in porn but if I do its never as the guy

>>7178978

According to who? Like >>7181622 said, the point of puberty blockers is literally to determine whether the kid is going through a phase or not.

>>7181833

I'm not. What a mess I've made of my life.

>>7181914

Yes.

>>7181940

You mean just AGP. Being attracted to men doesn't mean you're automatically trutrans. "Trutrans" is pretty nebulous, though.

>>7183447
Ok I'll look into that. Thanks
But that's just another thing I'm uncertain of, I can't right now imagine having kids, but I've been messing around with some ideas of how the world works and passing on genes seems like a really good idea.
I might be slightly overthinking tho ,thanks anyway

>>7183436
You're in a complicated situation. On one hand you shouldn't act before you're reasonably sure of what you want. On the other you don't have much time to decide. If I were you I'd make figuring this out sometime soon my top priority. Put in the effort. Think it over. Read. Discuss. Reach a conclusion.

I'm heading to bed but if you post your background (starting from childhood) I promise to respond tomorrow. The other posters could also use that information to help you.

>>7182170

What German lady?

>>7182198

What circumstances would those be?

>>7182484

Define gender bending thoughts. Also, make sure you use a range for age. Because my first moment of dysphoria was anywhere from 5-7. You could also add schizophrenia to the list of other disorders.

>>7182537
>>7182545

>obnoxious

Yes, I'm sure you, "forgot."

>>7182611

What would you put on the gender expression scale if you were just a repressed silent robot of a kid who did nothing but walk from class to class and do all of their work without speaking to anyone?

>>7183412
no I watched straight porn and self-inserted as the girl

but mostly i would just read lewd stuff and self-insert as the girl, I'm not a fan of videos desu

>>7183491
If genetic contribution is really what you're worried about, donate sperm all over the place beforehand.

>>7183587
So far most of those circumstances have involved discussing family matters. Especially infancy and parents, but also outlook on life and the next generation.

And yes, I actually forgot to drop trip after posting on a certain topic at a different board, in a particular thread; I don't want to use it here because I don't feel like taking crap from people in the ONE discussion space I have for this topic. Same reason why I don't use emoticons anymore. And since someone doesn't mind shitting up the entire thread, for everyone, in pursuit of the VERY ENLIGHTENED GOAL OF ENFORCING 4CHAN NETIQUETTE ORTHODOXY, I want to think I'm saving everyone else some trouble by complying.

Thank goodness for the moral guardians that make an internet hideout for a nearly-unbroachable subject a LESS welcoming place. I guess they wouldn't be able to stand anyone making a friend off here.

>>7184037
Oh wow holy shit you're right!
>>7183496
I'll post in this thread tomorrow, can't write much right now

Really appreciate the help

>>7182484
Just leave it at agp

>>7184037
So it is you again. I was starting to get really suspicious when another autist came by flooding the general and the board
You've just learned how to be a bit less conspicuous

>>7184273
Not even when people do what you want from them, arguably in pursuit of the same interests, with common ground already covered; are you willing to show satisfaction, budge an inch, or compromise.

You're not content with making the rules, you want people to comply immediately or else, you enjoy pushing people's buttons.

You' come off as authoritarian, controlling and bitter.

You probably have ego problems, although if true would likely never admit them; might be one to object to >>7180168, and going out on a limb here, there's a possibility that you have a tendency to bond to exploitative people.

...but you're not a paragon of integrity, you're not Rorschach, and you're not a CEO, at least not here.

>autist

Textbook example of pot calling the kettle back.

And this is enough shitpost for three generals already, so I'll stop bothering you and everybody else with this triggered crap.

Does anyone else get off to the thought of transforming ur personality and psychology into a feminine one?

It's like almost a mystical thing for me but it seems pretty much impossible since we're neurologically wired to response to things in a masculine or feminine way from birth.

Idk like my semi retarded attempts at it have gone from watching girly movies so that i would subconsciously identify with the main female protagonists, or listen to girly music or hanging out around mostly girls, also tried to get into female fashion and crossdressed.

It's quite weird i know but it turns me on lol

anyone else have sometnhing like this?

>>7184037
>>7185100
Someone else here. I'm glad you're still around.

>>7186124
Yeah, this is pretty common. Intellectually I don't even believe that men and women are that different when it comes to behavior, cultural indoctrination aside, so being into this is very embarrassing for me.

>tfw put on panties before I go to sleep every night
>have to take them off when i wake up


why am i so mentally ill

it feels so good though

>>7186540
So, what, do you sleep while aroused? Or is it more a peace-of-mind thing?

>>7186547
it makes me feel good

i only get aroused from dressing in girl clothes if i haven't done it in a long time or aren't used to it, the "excitement" wears off and I can just enjoy being fem

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Normal tranny passing through.
What's it like to be AGP? I'm super vanilla with no fetishes, so I really don't understand. What is so arousing about femininity to you? Why does some sexual urge have such a grip over you?

I guess I'm just trying to understand fetishes in general.

>>7183361
agp is heavily, intensely, almost obligately associated with submission
in turn, it's associated with masochism -- 25% of men who die performing erotic asphyxiation are found crossdressed
in four years, the only dominant/sadist agp i've ever met was the one who got the die cis scum tattoo
interestingly, aaps also seem to be a submissive and masochistic group, though not as strongly

>>7186557
not agp

>>7186563
what is so arousing about feet for foot fetishists?

>>7186569
I'm semi agp

I just go through cycles of trans/ depression+apath bcuz not gir/ then random short periods (few hours) of agp where i jerk off a bunch and then get depressed because I'm not a girl

>>7186571
oh alright

>>7186563
I never asked for this. I can't even remotely explain it. It's just something that has always, always been with me, ever since I was a kid. It took me a long time to admit to myself that I genuinely want to live as a woman and that this is not just a sex thing. I sold myself the "I'm just a cis guy who's been fantasizing about genderbending since the age of 4, absolutely had to imagine himself as a girl to get off since puberty, is deeply depressed for no apparent reason and occasionally spends hours going >tfw not a girl PERFECTLY NORMA hahaha" meme. It took the hours turning into days and then weeks for me to realize something's up.

>>7186566
>interestingly, aaps also seem to be a submissive and masochistic group, though not as strongly
Really? I'd expect them to be dom. Cool.

>>7186124
Im already 'girly' enough and always been struggling to 'man up' or more like 'man down' suppressing it. Since Iv accepted myself it feels inexplicably nice to notice these things where before I would get frustrated from lack of selfcontrol over my feelings.

I would argue against 'neurologically wired' since brain
scan show major overlaps between men and women, there is no distinctively female/male brain and then most things are ruled by hormones and neurotransmitters.

>attempts watching girly movies so that i would subconsciously identify with female protagonists
this could be natural urge to have imagined female experience via moveis/fiction, Iv never seen it as arousing unless fiction itself had sexual themes
that reminds me, I shouldn't have read deSade

>>7186566
makes sense with the social stigma, emasculation seen as degrading and humiliating and taking on the cliche of women being mandatory submissive

erotic asphyxiation is a shit btw, you just cum quick and feel bad

>>7186563
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>normal

>>7186524
Why should it be, you could conceptualize it as trying to broaden your own conditioning.

>>7186932
I'm a feminist.

>>7187123
cringe

>>7187143
i think feminism is a pretty cool guy. eh kills inequality and doesn't afraid of anything.

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>>7187170
/v/, go home. You're meme-ing again.

>>7187232
how upsetting that i know that image

also i've shitposted with the incorrect version of you're/your so many times i have to stare at it for a minute to check if it's correct or not

>>7187232
Little Anon, foolish Anon, I hail not from the wastelands of /v/ but from the opulent halls of /tg/.

>>7183496
I just wrote a novel of my life but I don't feel good about posting it. There's so much and I'm not sure what's important, then again I don't want to write it all
I'm weird like that

>>7187805
Post what you feel comfortable posting, but the more you omit the less precise of an idea we get of who you are. I hope that, at the very least, writing it out was helpful.

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>have agp fetish
>get older and extreme gender dysphoria develops with it
>always hold out hope the starting hrt and transitioning will help
>start hrt, completely lose libido
>no more dysphoria, but also no more desire to transition
>feel like an empty husk, stop hrt
>dysphoria has returned in full force
the ride never ends

>>7187980
how did you feel about the changes to your appearance if you had any?

>>7187980
>>no more dysphoria, but also no more desire to transition
I'm not sure I understand. Isn't relief from dysphoria reason enough?

>>7188183
As in, what do you mean when you say your desire disappeared? What was that desire, if not wanting to be free of dysphoria?

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>>7188020
i was only on for about 6 months so there werent too many. any time i see myself as more feminine im happier though. there was definite breast growth, which made me kind of excited at first but it never got past awkward cones and made me embarrassed in public.

>>7188183
>>7188189
guess i should elaborate. once i lost my sex drive, there was no longer such a desperate need to be female. still wanted it, but not as desperate. so it went from "i must transition or die no matter WHAT" to "i still want to transition, but now it doesnt feel worth the embarrassment of being an unpassing tranny and losing my friends so why bother"

and now that ive been off hrt for about a month, the dysphoria has come back in full. i'll probably go back on and just become a sexless feminine male with small breasts.

>>7188303
I'm sorry. Maybe things will get better with time?

>>7188303
that's exactly what Im worry of, lose agp - lose the main reason for it

>>7188303

Why sexless?

>>7188356
They just said they still wanted to transition but felt the pressure was too much.

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>tfw reported pro-hillary thread on asktg and it got deleted

>>7188371
Donald Trump's running mate is Mike Pence. Even if you're incredibly selfish and don't care about the plight of the poor or oppressed it is still against your best interests to vote for that man. Hillary is a classic US imperialist but she beats the alternative.

>tfw no Bernie president

>>7188351
>>7188356
yeah i hate to be a downer, but i just dont see any sort of good solution for being agp. feels like living a paradox.

>>7188359
cause i had no sex drive on hrt. which made me feel empty in a planet of sexual humans

>>7188383

Have you tried taking less than the prescribed/chosen dose?

>>7188377
I'm from Indiana, we had mike pence as governor, I didn't notice anything different than whoever was governor before him. It's not like the VP actually has any real power anyway and there is no way a "gas the trannies" bill will ever get passed.


All I want is as little government interference as possible, and hillary is not the candidate that would give me that.


I don't have a hardon for russia/putin, I would hate to live there, but I don't really support a neo-cold war.

Nor do I support more restrictive gun laws.

>>7188383
You said you still wanted to go through with it but were overwhelmed by the costs involved, right? Maybe moving to a more trans-friendly area and finding some accepting friends will help.

>>7188383
Im not going to socially transition ever, Im hoping keeping masculinization at bay would be enough, luckily my dysphoria comes and goes

>>7188395
>>7188377
>>7188371
please dont bring it here

>>7188395
VPs are very influential though. Do you think that a man taking an anti-abortion stance would not go after transsexuals given his open contempt for homosexuality? Hillary won't give you a small government and might push gun control but at least she's not actively after you. She's the status quo choice.

>I don't really support a neo-cold war.
We're already in a neo-cold war, as of Ukraine and Syria.

>>7188413
>We're already in a neo-cold war, as of Ukraine and Syria.

why make it worse tho ?

Mike pence isn't after me. Tbh I don't really agree with abortion either but I think it should be a state thing to decide, but honestly abortion is a meme issue and shouldn't be a athing in politics.

Is he going to make it illegal to be trans? Is he going to require trans people to wear a special star/patch?

lol

I don't even think trump will win but I still voted for him.

>>7188407
sorry friendo

>>7188429
>Is he going to make it illegal to be trans? Is he going to require trans people to wear a special star/patch?
Well, he opposed anti-discrimination laws covering homosexuality, defending the right of employers to fire at will.

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/agpg/ OFFICIAL SURVEY LINK HERE: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSdc90O0pJB2CITbgh3EEdXidbTUwk_kcGzkCykV7Im5l-Bayw/viewform

The survey is framed in a way that both AGPs and AAPs can respond. Hopefully, this will provide some actual data to either backup or challenge the memes we all have about A*P.

If anyone needs clarification for any of the questions, let me know and I'll edit them.

ah jesus.

I keep coming back here.

My current fear is that my "dysphoria" is just me attaching female beauty standards to a male body.

When I look at my hand I feel crushing sadness and it can kind of ruin my day.

Despite this, I'm such an AGP.

Or maybe I'm a highly repressed transbian

I seem to be attracted to the idea of a relationship with a man, but the bodies of women, despite this fact on HRT sexual attraction is something that's less significant to me.

WTF is this rant.

I wish my penis fell off

>>7189383
Answered for SCIENCE.

>>7189456
Crushing sadness and wishing for your dick to fall off sounds pretty trans to me. Treat yourself with kindness. Sometimes it is good to be charitable even to yourself.

>>7189383
I'm trying to avoid this board for mental health reasons atm but I'm interested in the results of this survey.
Any idea of when you might release them? particularly the percentage who are undergoing hrt/transitioning.

>just me attaching female beauty standards to a male body.

I've been like this my whole life. I've just never been able to see my masculine features as positive or myself as "handsome" in any way, I either looked feminine or just hideous. I started HRT recently (at 24) after realizing that its all downhill from here, unless I do something about it. Not sure if I ever want to live as a woman, but I don't mind the infertility and am looking forward to having breasts and all that.

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>>7189484
Your fellow AGPs thank you, comrade.

>>7189543
Maybe a week or two? I'm hoping whoever posts the next thread will put it in the OP.

Personally, I'm most interested in seeing how gender non-comforming people were as kids, because while I was extremely gender non-conforming, I get the sense most people were (relatively) normal boys.

>>7183587
Unless there is some other German girl who posts in this gen, I believe that anon is talking about me.

>>7189675

Hey CGL, the "bullying question" has the same explanation as the "current gender expression" question!

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Was anybody else so ashamed of how they felt as a kid that they tried to make everybody think that they were extremely masculine?
For me it was refusing to wear jeans because that's what women wore, sunglasses, long sleeved shirts, female vocalist music, long hair, romance in films/stories, leather shoes, etc.
Kind of feel like a retard thinking back but it is what it is.

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>>7189765
Thanks, that is a bit redundant. I'll edit it.

>CGL
?

>Would you like to transition (assuming you could magically pass)?

how is it possible that answering this direct question in writing still makes me brainfart

>>7189812

...cool german lady?

>>7189820
Haha, okay, I'll keep the nickname. Hopefully our resident autist doesn't get pissed at me for having a name on. If it gets annoying, I'll take it off.

>>7189772
Yep, tried to police my own femininity from about ages 12-16. It got me bullied a lot as a kid, so I tried to fix it in order to fit in. I was always thinking about things like my posture and my speech, and trying to correct both if they came across as too feminine. It didn't help that I was short and never fully masculinized though, but I did my best with what I had, even trying to talk with a lower voice and appear taller.

Then when I transitioned, all of my feminine attributes became positives, so I don't really think about it too much anymore. I never would have thought so as a kid, but I actually got quite lucky.

>>7189901
Credit where credit is due:
I only used it because this anon >>7182170 did so earlier and you actually answered to it.

>>7188429
>Is he going to make it illegal to be trans? Is he going to require trans people to wear a special star/patch?
Not necessary when you look like me

>>7189901
Don't make the name a habit.

>>7189675

WE BLANCHARD NAO

Mission accomplished, for science and weird sexualities!

>tfw no Tarzan bf
>tfw you will never make a guy fall for you like Tarzan fell for Jane
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zc3MnoSS5Hw

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>>7189383
is this intended as what you wanted or what you actually did

>>7190338
what you did
responding with what yo wanted will invalidate the whole thing because of the well-known discordance between what agps say about their childhoods and what other people saw

>>7190370
Shit is that a real thing?
Cause I've been thinking that throughout my entire teenage years.
Any details?

>>7190370
it seems to be too important a distinction to just throw away

>>7190374
how anti-a*p do you want the details to be? candice brown elliott talks about it extensively on her blog, but candice has a whole lot of issues with a*ps (even though, by the strictly blanchardian definition she follows, she'd have to count herself as one)
>>7190378
actions are more important than thoughts, and 'wanted to be feminine' cannot be quantified in the same way actual behaviour can

>>7190431
>how anti-a*p do you want the details to be?

What does this even mean?

>>7190476
the blanchardians, who are our only good sources on the phenotype and course of agp, tend to be biased against those who experience it
candice brown elliott is an excellent source of information, but i'm not even a*p and get weirded out by some of the shit on her blog

>>7190431
yes it can

also please cut it out with your "a*p" bullshit

>>7190486

Will look into that lady's material.

Evidently, judgements of value have no place within scientific endeavours and must be ignored.

>>7190516

Why is it bullshit?

It's easy to understand within the context and shorter than writing AAP/AGP.

>If you have transitioned, how long did it take for A*P thoughts to go away?
this is a bad leading question

>>7190529
this thread is for agp
it's part of your forcing your entire worldview as fact and shoehorning in aap

>>7190537

I'm not the same anon you told to cut it out in >>7190516, in fact, that anon was responding to me.

I may have already told you elsewhere that there is more than one person using A*P as shorthand for both in these boards. Or maybe I told someone else.

If you pay close attention (you seem to do) I almost always write it in uppercase.

Come on, why don't you explain why AAP is not relevant?

And what do you think this "worldview" of mine consist of? The one you say I'm forcing as fact. You've said so before, I think calling it "worldview" is quite exaggerated, but I'm curious about why do you take so much exception.

In fact I don't really know what you take exception to, besides the fact that you don't want AAP to be discussed here.

>>7190431
Sorry I just meant a person with AGP inventing memories/interpretations in order to justify/fulfil their AGP.
For example I remember crossdressing as a kid but I have no idea whether that is true or not.
Or taking the fact that I had mostly female friends as a kid and turning that into some sort of trigger to my AGP.

>>7190680
>inventing memories/interpretations
yeah, that's very common
that's another reason why childhood gender presentation has to go by the exterior rather than interior one, because interior gender presentation is universally reinterpreted to 'fit the narrative' over time even in cases where it originally fit pretty well
the blanchardians think it's a conscious choice but i don't think that

>>7190716
So is that normal for everybody or just AGP? or do non trutrans people do the same?

>>7190680
>inventing memories/interpretations

Sometimes I worry about this, but the bullying I experienced was very real, so I don't think I'm inventing anything. Still though, I remember my parents telling me that I didn't seem extremely feminine when I came out to them, but that may have just been due to my years of repression.

>>7190516
I try not to actively exclude AAP, but I also don't necessarily shoehorn it in either. I just sort of try to see what's there and go with the flow.

>>7190537
>leading question
I didn't think that was a leading question...?
Maybe I accidentally randomized the questions or something? I'll check it out.

>>7190959
name off.

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>>7189383
>>7189675
>>7190959

Psssst.

Here's a little something as a token of gratitude for actually taking the pains to make a survey

I can swap the background for a plain one if it's not to your taste

<3

>>7190680
yes sometimes memories can be false but at the same time you can't simply discredit them because of this

>>7190802

Everyone does that with their memories. And this is with every kind of memory, like eye witness testimony. A memory is not infallible. I even saw a video of a parent who was describing how feminine their MtF daughter was as a child, and said parent lived in denial of their child's transsexuality during the child's adolescence. And I thought it was likely the mother herself remembered her child's childhood differently to square the child's declared gender identity and their child in early childhood. Now just to prove how fallible memory is, I don't recall if the MtF in question was Gwen Araujo or Laura Jane Grace, though it was likely the latter. I don't think the former's mother is entirely out of the clear though.

>>7191429
>Now just to prove how fallible memory is, I don't recall if the MtF in question was Gwen Araujo or Laura Jane Grace, though it was likely the latter.
gwen was csts and ljg is agp, so one is certainly more likely than the other (i'm pretty drunk over the election so i can't interpret which one is more likely)

>>7191480
do you get drunk every election ?

>>7191509
no, i just hate trump that fucking much

>>7191563
I'm sorry you feel that way anon, I hope at least you hated hillary equally as much

>>7191600
i'm really not a hillary fan for what she did to bernie
but i'd vote for the goddamn unabomber over mr idiocracy
i just hope he and pence both get assassinated during obama's lame duck term, president ryan would be awful but preferable

>>7191623
I voted for trump and I hope he wins.


Sorry you drank the "trump is crazy and retarded and hitler mixed with satan" koolaid

>>7191633
sorry you drank the 'the guy who thinks climate change is a chinese scam, vaccines cause autism, the replacement of manufacturing jobs by automation can somehow be undone, and is a russian puppet would be capable of holding the presidency' koolaid

>>7191623
I'm not an american but does it matter that he chose pence as VP? Particularly for LGBT?

>>7191646
Salty tears!!!

>>7191649
pence is vocally, extremely anti-lgbt even by republican standards, dude defunded hiv research to fund conversion therapy
insider leaks from his campaign show that trump's vp will be extremely important, much like cheney was for bush

>>7191649
Mike Pence pushed through some religious freedom restoration act when he was gov of Indiana.

>Indiana Senate Bill 101, titled the Religious Freedom Restoration Act,[1] is a law in the U.S. state of Indiana, which allows individuals and companies to assert that their exercise of religion has been, or is likely to be, substantially burdened as a defense in legal proceedings.


Basically it was a knee jerk response to the whole "small bakery getting sued for refusing to cater gay wedding".

It was a big deal and a lot of people were mad, they recently added something to it to protect lgbt people. But basically it was a dumb kneejerk reaction.


>>7191646
Sorry you think not wanting to go to war with russia = putin puppet
;_;

>>7191684
is it exploitable with FSM type stuff?

>>7191740
idk

I'm not even trans and I'm getting worried and aroused by the thought of "losing my rights as a transwoman" and all that goes away after I cum

What the fuck I hate this stupid shit stop masturbating yeah but this shit just gets in the way of everything

>>7191124
Cute drawing anon.

>>7190370
I don't think that's actually reasonable. If a gay boy in a very Christian community hid his impulses as a kid that does not mean that they weren't there, and answering that he felt straight as a kid is just false.

The whole "these people can't help but lie about their childhood" is frankly insulting and implies self-reporting is entirely useless.

>>7190486
>the blanchardians, who are our only good sources on the phenotype and course of agp
Such a good source that the wider medical community completely disregards them.

>>7190537
AGP here. If you're intent on excluding AAPs what you're eventually forcing is the splitting of this thread into two, as I and most other people here aren't interested in doing that. Is that what you'd prefer?

>>7193027
>Such a good source that the wider medical community completely disregards them
this meme again
it's accepted in trans healthcare that there are multiple types and that the type that trends older and gayer also tends to subconsciously edit their past
it's just not universally accepted that the older, gayer type is motivated by a*p
i would refer here to the typology of anne vitale, which essentially rewrites blanchard to remove the sexual aspect and also is a prototype for my own csts/hsts/a*p typology (the 'group 2' she describes is clearly hsts, though she sees them as the ftm equivalent of csts)

>>7193045
>this meme again
That the typology is not accepted by the medical community at large (or nearly anywhere, in fact) is a fact, not a meme. WPATH outright said it is of no use because it lacks evidence.

>>7193038
what would really be best is you and >>7193045 keep your blanchardian typology to its own thread. if you're going to keep forcing the issue, then a split may be both necessary and beneficial. feel free to make your own thread

>>7193045
"What you did" is simply just as unreliable, as it also depends on memories. You either trust what people say, or you consider them liars and then have nothing to work with. A simple example is the frequent case of parents saying "b-b-b-but there were no signs!!" upon a child coming out, while the child believes there were obvious signs, in actions. Now who is incorrect?

>>7193065
I'm actually the rabid anti-Blanchardian. I just got zero support when I tried to act on this. As long as people are going to try and peddle Blanchard's bullshit here I'm going to speak against it. Sorry, but I can't let these statements go unchallenged.

When I say AAP I just mean potentially trans AFABs who experience a gender-mirrored sort of self-arousal to the AMABs who post here.

>>7193085
>A simple example is the frequent case of parents saying "b-b-b-but there were no signs!!" upon a child coming out, while the child believes there were obvious signs, in actions. Now who is incorrect?
my own mother did this; over the years, it became obvious i was the one in the right through provable records of my childhood actions (e.g. photos, psychological assessments, things written at the time)
most people who grow up in even slightly stable households in the first or even second world are going to have extensive records of their childhood, it's not like most people are completely guessing as to what happened throughout it, and the younger you are the truer that is as an increasing amount of it is documented online

>>7193085
Agreed. This whole line of thought is just so bonkers.
>Self-report but btw if you say something that doesn't fit my theory you're making it up :^)

>>7193093
i'm not saying there are no people who were extremely gnc in childhood and later developed a*p, it provably happens
it just isn't common
studies of gnc children show even fewer who turn out a*p than those who turn out trans in general (i can only think of two studies that included people who could be identified as agp at all, and i've read a lot of those studies), and the overwhelming majority of gnc children aren't trans

>>7193091
The possibility of some proof is just dancing around the issue. In a strict household, won't a parent neglect to take a photo of their son wearing a dress, or even disallow even a child-sized dress in the house?
>psychological assessments
Who the fuck gets a psych assessment as a child?

>>7193091
The overwhelming majority of people do not have much to attest to what they were at that age other than some sporadic childhood photos, typically staged by parents. Not everyone's 18, born to the internet.

>>7193100
>Who the fuck gets a psych assessment as a child?
...a lot of people? keep in mind 1 in 4 kids have special education statements, and that's just the ones who got labels from their assessments
though the point you make about strict households is decent, there are still extremely gnc children in strict households. their parents aren't shocked when they come out. miserable, despondent, filled with rage, but not shocked. and you can incorporate the balance of evidence -- if your entire extended family and everyone you knew in school is shocked, you weren't gnc. human memory is a shit resource, but that doesn't mean we can't take ANYthing from it, especially from the more distant sources who were less emotionally involved.

>>7193096
Okay, I don't have much of a problem with that. What I do have a problem with is the assertion that people shouldn't report how they remember having felt during their childhood in a survey based on self-reporting.
I myself was mostly gender conforming so I don't have a dog in this race. I just think that disregarding the experiences of others who remember feeling gnc feelings but were unable to act upon them is wrong and gives us a twisted image of reality.

>>7193038
>>7193065
I think most of this discussion doesn't really belong here, and instead belongs in another thread, maybe something like an LGBT theory/psychology/philosophy general. /agpg/ should be just like /mftg/, /tgg/, /tlg/, /ftmg/, /clg/, /femgen/, /gaygen/ etc etc - a low key (well not mtfg lol) group for support with peoples' lives and just to come chill out and talk to other AGP people. Different threads for different purposes.

>>7193124
When it comes to psychology how one has felt is more important than how one has acted.

>>7193141
I get where you're coming from but people come here seeking help and different people have different ideas about how to provide said help. Conflict between the different schools is inevitable.

>>7193159
No see, you don't get it. The notion of "schools" is completely out of place here. No other random general has a problem with this, why does this one?

Could any non trans anons with AGP share their experience/relationship with cross dressing?
In terms of dysphoria, exhiliaration, arousal, guilt, etc.

>>7193175
Because there's no consensus about the nature of the condition. Unfortunately. I can't convince someone they're legitimate without arguing with the people trying to tell them that they're just a straight man in love with his "inner woman".

>>7193201
and nobody argues that here

>>7189456
how exactly are you AGP?

>>7193197
there have been many through the threads...

>>7189383
The maximum amount you can answer for the "if you have started transition, how much A*P do you still have left?" question is "pre-transition levels". My AGP has increased at this point if anything, though I suspect that's mostly down to increased acceptance/reduced repression of it rather than the fetish truly getting stronger.

I'd also suggest the addition of a question for how strong the AGP is, considering that can vary a lot and there's a similar question for strength of dysphoria.

>>7193635
Not that person but I'm curious: for how long have you been on HRT? Have you socially transitioned and if so, for how long have you been living as a woman?

>>7193197
Reporting in, I don't crossdress.

Might try it in the future out of curiosity though.

>>7193656
Same here.
I feel like there's a huge barrier though from wanting to do it and actually doing it. Like I've felt the desire all of my life but now that I have the money/ability to do so I just cannot bring myself to make that initial step. God i'm so fucking confused.

>>7193654
HRT for 5 months. Want to socially transition but am unpassable and will be borderline at best, so I haven't and don't know if I ever will. Would have been on HRT years ago (and wanted to) but wasn't due to fear of taking responsibility for self-medding, denial of the reality of my dysphoria (due to AGP and the dysphoria starting late), and the lack of support from my family ("but you never showed any signs", "I'll support your decision but I don't think it's a good idea", "I know about transgender people and they aren't like you", "it doesn't seem to bother you that much").

My AGP was never that strong, and my dysphoria has been persistently strong and escalating over time. Both started late, about 14 or 15 years old. There may have been hints of it early on but they're so vague and difficult to remember that including them would raise far more questions than it would answer.

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>>7193770
>"but you never showed any signs", "I'll support your decision but I don't think it's a good idea", "I know about transgender people and they aren't like you", "it doesn't seem to bother you that much"
this is why people should be aware of typologies, though not crazy blanchardian ones
trans people who are not gnc deserve understanding and respectful treatment
at any rate, what traits drive your conviction of unpassability? the borderline statement at least betrays a more honest self-image than the 'never pass' bdd types that float around these parts
one thing that's worth noting is that agp trans women, as a whole, find their lives exceedingly better as women even when they're hon stereotypes due to the relief from dysphoria/agp

>>7193806
if only i could look that good after ffs ;___;

>>7193843
what brings you to the conclusion you can't, given she previously had a caveman brow and roman nose?

I can't stop thinking "for fuck's sake" whenever I read ffs

>>7193896
my lower face juts out a whole lot more and the forehead is a lot more sloped with a fucked hairline, making the overall shape look really weird and jutting out in a hypothetical ffs

like this person's face is probably closest to mine
https://2pass.eu/portfolio/cathlin/
and if i looked like that afterwards i'd still want to kill myself

>>7194114
i can see what you mean, that's a very masculine face
i don't think the post-ffs situation is as dire as you perceive it though, cis women without makeup look fucking weird most of the time and she's in the range i've seen on them decently enough
her ffs also looks too mild for her face and has some apparent technical flaws (mild 'dolphin forehead', front of hairline hairline brought too far forward)
i recommend you look into virtual ffs
http://www.virtualffs.co.uk/
it should give you a better idea than trying to fit into online pictures

>>7193661
>>7193656
Do you just fantasize about it?
And yeah for me its hard to get over
>its so wrong, I look ugly
>it will only make my desires worse
>I can live without it
I had put on my moms clothes several times but then just went back fantasies.
Since living alone I have bought some but I probably posed much more naked trying to strike a pose that makes me looks fem than dressing up. But Im also indecisive af, I cant even get myself to buy the drugs I need.

>>7194114
having manjaw is a killer, the rest is much easier to fix and hide, Id need to saw off half of my chin to even remotely pass

5 months hrt is not much though, you are only starting to see real changes

>>7193806
>at any rate, what traits drive your conviction of unpassability?
Broad shoulders and big ribcage are the major problems. I don't have measurements but they aren't feminine in the slightest and obviously stand out. My jaw is bad too and is the main thing that could stop my face from passing; I feel like it's too strong and obviously masculine to not make people suspect even under the best circumstances. Brow and nose are masculine and problematic, but I feel could be overlooked despite that if nothing else was too bad and they were framed properly (with hairstyle and such). There's always FFS for face at least which will probably be able to make it okay, but my shoulders/chest can't be fixed and seriously harm everything, and then my height draws attention and contextualises all the masculine features in a way that suggests I'm male.

Beyond that, my face is really small, which exaggerates my jaw and brow. There are also the normal features that happen in nearly every non-early transitioner, such as narrow hips and big hands.

It's funny how my shoulders and jaw, the two worst features that impede my passing the most, are also the features that have changed the most in the last few years (and could have been tolerable if I transitioned not even that much earlier, certainly in the period when I knew I wanted to).

This all isn't worth much without a picture, but I don't want to post one.

>>7194220
That's not me (>>7193770)

>>7194275
>>7193806
>one thing that's worth noting is that agp trans women, as a whole, find their lives exceedingly better as women even when they're hon stereotypes due to the relief from dysphoria/agp
I might socially transition even if I don't pass reliably just out of desperation, and hope I can cling on to the times when I do pass and that will be enough to compensate for when I don't. Failing to pass is totally unfulfilling (not to mention actively distressing, humiliating, disgusting, etc.); I'm not "expressing my true self" or whatever if no-one actually sees me that way and I'm too wrong to even delude myself into thinking I see myself that way (which is the case because my body is seriously and permanently incongruous with my sense of self and I guess the body I "expect" to have).

>this is why people should be aware of typologies, though not crazy blanchardian ones
It's funny that they should say I didn't seem that bothered by it, which is partially my fault since I hid it pretty deliberately. I guess all the crying and fantasising and depressive lying around starting at nothing was done out of their way, and I could have seemed like I wasn't so depressed otherwise. Also denial on their part would have contributed.

The stereotypes did harm me a lot. It wasn't even repression really, it was more like a lingering excuse I could use to not think about things too hard and admit that not only did I have dysphoria (which was relatively easy to admit), but (much more importantly) that I had already been fucked over by waiting this long; if I weren't trans then I wouldn't have to worry about being this masculine already. Because the dysphoria did start so late, I felt like I never really had a chance to pass, so I was much more willing to cling onto the idea that I wouldn't have to try than I would have been if it had started early.

Maybe I would have found some other excuse if I weren't AGP and started experiencing dysphoria early. Who knows.

>>7194280
>Maybe I would have found some other excuse if I weren't AGP and started experiencing dysphoria early
i don't think that's as likely as you think it is
i'm not aap (hang around here because of my research on a*p), started experiencing dysphoria early (though late by early standards, it's complicated), and wasn't capable of using excuses past my very early teens
at any rate, don't take a lack of response as a lack of interest. you sound rather insightful and intelligent, and i'm confident you have the tools to improve your situation, but i'm not sure where you would find them so to speak.

>>7194162
that is interesting yes but i can't even think of any of shit. and expensive

>mild 'dolphin forehead'
what


>>7194220
yeah mb i realized there was a thread. not that anon
hormones don't fix fucked up bones

>>7194325
'dolphin forehead' is defined in the link i gave
it's the result of some kinds of forehead ffs, where instead of a cis female slope it kind of...bulges out in a way that hides the original bulge
the link has pictures to illustrate this and a better description

>>7191623

>i'd vote for the goddamn unabomber

Of course you would. Ted is one of us.

>>7192587

You mean losing your rights because of Trump and Pence then being passed around by a group of Trump supporters who rape you and harass after they discover you're trans or the typical "becoming an inferior woman" way?

>>7193085
>>7193770

>A simple example is the frequent case of parents saying "b-b-b-but there were no signs!!"
>"but you never showed any signs"

This, kek. My dad told me I never seemed feminine when I came out. Then, a few days or weeks later, I was flipping through my childhood photo album to think about how I got to the moment where I came out at nearly 21 years of age. Then my dad came into the room and started looking at them with me (though I didn't want him there). A few page flips later and we ended up on a picture of me as a 2 year old wearing red lipstick on a tricycle. My dad was pretty talkative up to that point, but once we got to that picture he shut up and there was a more stonefaced and concerned expression on his face. To be fair though, the lipstick wasn't on my lips. The lipstick was on my nose and above my lip, resembling a mustache. So who knows if I was trying to imitate my mother and my attempt was frustrated by the lack of a mirror and shitty two year old motor skills or if I was trying to imitate my father's mustache and somehow I got some on my nose.

>>7193974

I have the opposite problem.

>>7194321

>a*p

How are you supposed to pronounce this, anyway? I find myself saying "A blank P."

>>7194571
A times P :^)

>>7194571
in my mind i sort of jump over the asterisk, but given it's used as a wildcard one would follow wildcard protocol
unfortunately I'm unsure of that
'a-star-p'?

>>7194542
I'm >>7193770 (You). There were similar ambiguous signs like that for me. I raided my mother's makeup case when I was about 3 years old and just haphazardly wore all of it. I had a Barbie doll as a child (though I remember it as being my brother's, my parents have said it was mine). I didn't act feminine or have feminine interests at all really; I acted pretty much as you'd expect of a mild-to-moderately autistic child, which includes being mostly gender-neutral. I believe I got more masculine-acting as I got older, which was definitely partly due to social pressure, but I really can't say anything accurate about it (and like I said, it was never particularly feminine, if at all).

But anyway, these kind of things are so minor and unreliably remembered that it appears that placing any importance on them is just a way to validate oneself as being trans by virtue of conforming to a stereotype (in a dishonest way, since you don't have enough information to judge their significance accurately). Ultimately they don't matter; if you have dysphoria now you have dysphoria, and it's probably not going away.

And in my case any validation from even the most generous interpretation of the "signs of femininity" early on are counteracted by the lack of dysphoria during that time or early puberty. By the point I experienced any I had already gone through a substantial amount of puberty, but I believe too much for it to merely be explained away by the dysphoria only appearing once my body started to change; if that were the case it would probably have happened earlier, though admittedly not much earlier.

Did you bring that picture/event up with your parents later? What happened, if so?

>>7194571
>>7194585
>>7194586

A glottal stop P?

IDK, I never pronounce it.

>tfw reading through /agpg/ the first time and realising how many common points I have with some people
>tfw still feel too guilty whenever I indulge in crossdressing

Almost zero body dismoprhia though, I'm fairly okay with myself. Just wish I could attain either a masculine or feminine aesthetic at will, you know? The mannerisms, clothes and interests/roles are mostly culturally ingrained, but you can't just distort your self-image all you want.

How fucked am I?

>>7194616

>Did you bring that picture/event up with your parents later? What happened, if so?

I haven't. Like you said, I find it difficult to attribute any importance to the picture in supporting my case that my dysphoria has been long-standing because of the ambiguity of its evidence. If it were more clearly a picture in support of me being trans, it would show my dysphoria/gender-noncomformity started earlier than I ever imagined. So while it would be great if it were more positive, I'm not that bothered by not being able to call it one way or the other either. I don't even know much about that picture. As far as I know, that picture was taken in my babysitter's house and I don't know if it was one of my parents that took the photo. Maybe my dad wasn't just concerned with what was in the photo itself. Perhaps he was the one taking the photo, and upon seeing it, he remembered the story behind that photo and that I was somewhat GNC. I just don't know. I guess I will ask them about it eventually, but without assuming it has any significance.

When I present my life experiences in detail to my parents (though I'll glaze over the AGP stuff except for one event, until I'm sure they won't think I'm a wacko if I confess to it) and in effect come out in a more understandable way, I hope that will get them to accept I'm trans and stop opposing my efforts to transition.

>>7194542
Well I know for sure the former isn't a fantasy but it's more "losing the ability to become a woman" way, even though I don't actually want to become a woman, just the thought of worrying about losing my rights turns me on, even if there is no base in reality or reason to worry about it.

>>7194848
idk

>>7194872
>(though I'll glaze over the AGP stuff except for one event, until I'm sure they won't think I'm a wacko if I confess to it)
Would you mind telling what that event was? I'm interested.

>>7172827
reminds me to that party I went to where there was a girl super stonned and that believed I looked 10x times hotter than I really am

>>7194848
you're normal for the place's standart
I really feel the same as you about changing aesthetic, but I think it would raise the question of who you really are, male or female you see ?

Anyway if you're into crossdressing just accept it as some kind of hobby and don't fuss about it

>>7195546

Well, it's the first AGP event I ever had, as far as I recall. I was 10 or 11 and switched the TV on. It was set to MTV because we last watched the Andy Milonakis show on it or something like that. And this music video (https://youtu.be/dW2MmuA1nI4?t=1m57s) came on at about this point. Automatically, I got hard thinking about being like the women in the video, wearing a bikini and having so much skin exposed on the beach. I had a bit of an exhibitionist desire as a kid, which is probably why I was aroused at the idea of having lots of my skin exposed. The part where the woman lays down on her towel at about 2:00 was especially arousing to me.

The funny thing is I plan on telling them about how I sucked my own dick (that night I discovered I had a greater desire for cock than I realized) and some other gay things, but not about AGP.

>>7195915

Was she trying to climb on top of you?

>>7196207
>
The funny thing is I plan on telling them about how I sucked my own dick (that night I discovered I had a greater desire for cock than I realized) and some other gay things, but not about AGP.
What? Why? If anything that would just make them think you're a fetishist (which you are, but, you know), and also imply that you like your dick, which they would probably believe invalidates you (though if you do then that will eventually have to come up anyway I guess).

I don't think mentioning the arousal is going to help you, though mentioning that video having an impact on you will. I'd want to keep things as simplified as possible, with minimal opportunity for them to disbelieve that you're really trans due to misunderstanding what that entails.

>>7196259

>and also imply that you like your dick, which they would probably believe invalidates you

What happened when I sucked my dick was that I just got curious about what it felt like to get a blowjob one night in 11th or 12th grade. Since I had already decided I didn't want a girlfriend by that point, and I didn't realize I was bisexual at that point, I thought I would have to do it myself. I also went back over the autocunnilingus article on Wikipedia again earlier that night. I thought if a woman could give herself oral stimulation, there was no way I couldn't with a 6.5" handicap. So I tried to do it without much success at first because I didn't have the flexibility. But the strange thing is that half way through, with all the frustration I was feeling, I started feeling something I didn't expect to. At one point, I wasn't sure I was trying to suck my dick because I wanted to see what it was like to have my dick sucked or because I really wanted a dick to suck on. My emotions became so ambiguous about why I was doing it. I wasn't sure if my feelings were 50/50 or if I had switched entirely to just wanting to suck a dick. Eventually I did manage to stick it in my mouth and I enjoyed, especially the taste of the dick itself. The taste of my cum, not so much. I also had a couple of times where I wanted to cut my dick off before and after that moment. So do you think that still might make them think I like my dick?

>>7196684
jesus christ dude do NOT tell them this story or mention ANYTHING about sucking your own dick. just say you're attracted to men if you want to don't make it some huge fetish story they spend 3 minutes cringing at while you tell.

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>>7197046

>if you want to don't make it some huge fetish story they spend 3 minutes cringing at while you tell.

Oh no, this will be written down, darling. Are you crazy?

But seriously, the reason I plan to get into detail with it is because while my mother angrily acknowledges I will not settle down with a woman (if only I could say with certainty I will settle down with a man), my father has gone into total denial. For example, I visited my grandparents two months ago, and my father told me I'm going to look a lot like my grandfather over the phone. He's told me some other shit about "When you marry a woman..." since. And this is with me having already told him I've felt attracted to guys and that if I marry anyone, it won't be a woman (and I don't believe in non-binary genders). So I feel like I need to really get into the nitty gritty to get the news through his thick skull.

>>7197195
whatever dude it's your life I guess

>>7196684

It's okay in my book if you like sucking your own dick. After all it's just a different form of masturbation ·_· people masturbate with their hands all the fucking time and nobody gives a fuck, I don't get why sucking yourself off should be more taboo, I can't do it but I'd totally try it if I could, it's your own fucking mouth; not your baby sister's, not your local priest's, not your neighbor's dog's: your own.

Now.

Your parents don't need to fucking know that much. Would you like hearing your dad telling you how the other day he tongued your mom's ass 3 inches in right besides the oven while some roast was in the making?

Okay, maybe you would, I don't know and I'm not going to judge you, but the thing is:

It's not safe to assume that people want to hear the sticky details of your sexual exploits. Much less masturbatory ones, astronomically less if it's your old guys.

If what you need to talk about is attraction to cock, talk about that.

>>7197195

This makes sense, but seriously, just talk about how much you like cock and how you can't tell which one you love more, eating cock or having your cock eaten, and why, and in which ways if need be, but giving your parents the specifics of how you sucked yourself off for the first timesounds nuke-level, better save it up if you need moar dakka at a future date.

>>7197295

i used to suck my own dick in high school.
mostly because i had seen it in porn and partly because i wanted a blow job really bad and partly to see what it tasted like in my mouth.

it was really hot at first but it didn't feel that great. i mean having a cock in my mouth was awesome but having a mouth on my cock was not even that great. i mean a blow job from a guy now is amazing but giving yourself one is like tickling yourself: it doesn't really work.

and after i came in my mouth i was disgusted with myself for even doing it and disgusted by the taste of my semen.

but a few weeks later i was back on my neck again pulling my legs down over my head slurping up my cockhead and jizzing in my mouth only to be thoroughly disgusted again.

>>7197494

It took me only a week to get over the disgust and suck my dick for the second time. The draw of the dick was just that strong.

>>7191124
Wow, thanks for the picture anon. I saw it Tuesday night, but I've been stressing too much about the election results to respond until now.

I wish I could express even more gratitutde than that but to be honest the results of the election have been horrifying and I'm worried about what my future (if any) in the United States might be. My family and I are now strongly considering leaving the country after I get SRS this June.

Jesus, we really fucked up with this one. I know this gen isn't technically the place to talk about this, but jesus fucking christ, does anyone even realize how much damage this election will do? This is probably the end of the LGBT rights movement in America for the next two decades, if not for the rest of our lives.

I just wish I could go back to making fun of hons and reddit. Now I'm fucking scared that my entire life will be torn apart...

I apologize for le blog post of despair.

>>7198114
don't be too worried, friend
that's hard for me to say because i am also terrified
but leaving the country is the wrong option -- trump will reverse lgbt rights, but absolutely not end them. the current position of the overton window makes that a difficult prospect, to say the least.
i mostly just say this because i live outside the us and my life plan, which is completely inflexible on this topic, means i have to move there at some point during what would be trump's turn. but i'm also a revolutionary type, and i don't see the point of being next to a political hornet's nest if you aren't kicking it. this election is actually a sign that those on the left should turn around and fight, not let themselves be steamrolled like they so often are. we live in interesting times, and the current young generation is one of the largest and most revolutionary in many years.

>>7198136
>trump will reverse lgbt rights, but absolutely not end them.
I wish I were exaggerating how bad it's going to be:
https://www.reddit.com/r/asktransgender/comments/5c3b4o/my_thoughts_on_what_the_trumppence_presidency/d9tgxgv/

>but leaving the country is the wrong option
I have another citizenship and my parents have potential job opportunities out side the country. Why shouldn't we go if things get too bad?

>but i'm also a revolutionary type
Me too comrade, but I've always thought it's better to live and fight another day than it is to to go out in a blaze of glory. If my personal wellbeing is threatened enough, it might be best to flee and fight again elsewhere.

Regardless, I'll be hitting the streets in these coming weeks. Definitely not going down without a fight.

>>7198226
where do you have dual citizenship for? what's also concerning me about people planning to run is that there isn't really anywhere to run to. canada is so heavily influenced by american politics (even though they claim otherwise) that just having a currently liberal leader doesn't mean much. the uk is brexiting. europe is where all this shit came from in the first place. australia's been racist since before racism was cool again and will elect pauline hanson any day now. anything outside the first world west comes with its own piles of shit. nobody can escape the right-wing populism wave, just fight it.

>>7198264
We should all go to Rojava

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>>7198264
>where do you have dual citizenship for?
Canada-USA, but I also have a German boyfriend and I have a lot of connections over there so Deutschland is always a backup option.

>what's also concerning me about people planning to run is that there isn't really anywhere to run to
Unlike America, the far right still isn't in power in a lot of European nations, or Canada for that matter. Better yet, most of those nations have actual non-neoliberal leftist communities, so we could seriously stand a chance of defeating them there. It was assuming that Donald Trump could be destroyed by the establishment that got us to where we are in the US, but those mistakes don't have to be repeated elsewhere.

That's not to say I won't fight the populist right here too, but I'm not counting on too much going our way in that fight. Sure, there are some hardcore socialists here who would stand up to a Trump presidency, but not enough of them, and they certainly aren't organized enough.

>>7198309
>We should all go to Rojava
I was actually genuinely considering this at one point, but at the end of the day I'm just not cut out for combat. Also, I like my first world comforts. But more power to what the YPG/YPJ/SDF are doing.

Lol, I can't believe I'm actually discussing international politics in a thread for people who are aroused by femininity. I guess it's sort of inevitable to be discussed though considering the LGBT community is pretty much permanently in the crosshairs of the authoritarian right.

>>7198114
I'm sorry you have to go through this. Please be safe. Don't let hatred make you feel unloved. I like you a lot and I hope you'll do well.

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>>7198114
>believing entirely pro-shillary massmedia propaganda

>>7199507
this
it's amazing the mental gymnastics liberals conduct to support their neoliberal corporate whore

maybe people will finally wake up and establish a real left wing party. probably not though, the propaganda runs deep

>>7199507
>>7199587
I don't like Hillary. She's an old guard imperialist. She's just not Donald Trump and her running mate is not Mike Pence. It is inarguable that at least as far as legbutts are concerned she was the better choice.

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>>7189383
When will we know the results?

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Am I agp?
>like to crossdress
>shave everything
>paint my nails
>prefer femininity over masculinity in most cases
>Day-dream about what its like to be a girl often
>get depressed when i know i will never experience what it is like growing up a girl and being one

>>7199897
Only if any of that arouses you by itself. Potentially trans either way.

>>7199877
IIRC she said she'll collect evidence for a week or two. Make sure to remind people to fill the survey so that we get a good deal of responses.

Reminder to whoever makes the next thread

Please include a link to the survey in the OP

>>7189383
>>7189383
>>7189383

>>7199897
the real question is wether or not you would permanently transition or not

and AGP is purely sexual btw

>>7201259
I think it's time to make a new thread anyway

>>7201384
>and AGP is purely sexual btw
That's misleading. I guess you could say the AGP itself is purely sexual, but I don't think you can necessarily say it's that distinct from the dysphoria. The feelings of dysphoria and non-sexual desire to be female can blend together with the AGP feelings, in a way that makes the difficult to tell apart but may also suggest that they are somehow intertwined.

>>7201442
oh yeah
I guess a way to tell things apart is to think about it when you're not aroused in any way, when you have no sexual feelings whatsoever
At least that's what I do, but I can't tell for other people

>>7201259
>>7201407
Hmm.. I'd say that you ought wait a few posts before posting it. We need to avoid off-thread trolls seeing and filling it.

>>7201470
wait till it gets to page 9 imo

>>7201470
>>7201520
ok let's do that
what should we put in OP's pic though ?
I can't think of anything related that is positive and not a cute grill

>>7197295
>>7197349

Alright, I get it. I'll keep that part to myself then.

>>7201384
>>7199900
>and AGP is purely sexual btw
Ohh I don't think I'm an agp.
>the real question is wether or not you would permanently transition or not
I mean I'm borderline on saying yes or no its just idk.

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>>7199165
Thanks anon. I'm just lucky that I can leave at all though. I can't even imagine what it will be like for people who have to stay.

>>7199507
>>7199587
>pro-shillary
>neoliberal corporate whore
>liberal
Far from it, friend. The last party I actually fully supported was Die Linke.

But honestly, that's neither here nor there. What matters is that it doesn't take a genius to see that things will get much, much worse for LGBT people under a unified GOP government with Trump in the White House. I mean, just today, Trump appointed Ken Blackwell as head of domestic policy for the first 100 days of his administration, a guy who pretty much thinks LGBT people shouldn't exist. If you don't believe me, look it up.

Remember all of those executive orders which gave protections to trans people and allowed them to change their federal documents? Well all of those will be gone, probably within the first week of Trump's presidency, and that is just the start. Expect to see anti-transgender laws get passed, with HB2 being implemented on a national scale, meaning even if you live in a liberal area you aren't safe. And even if a more pro-LGBT person is elected after Trump, the Supreme Court will be stacked with conservative justices, and will affect policy for an entire generation.

/rant over

>>7199877
Sometime in the next 2-4 weeks probably. Depends how long it takes me to analyze the data.