Do afab people have an easier time looking androgynous than amab?

>>7166940
Easily. They have their own downsides, but range and ease of expression is not one of them.

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>>7166940
Idk, hormonal drugs are easy to get so that evens the gap for boys. most women are also too round and stubby with short limbs, that doesn't go well.

Yes. Femininity is hard to replicate, but masculinity is quite easy.

>>7166940
>>7166940
yes, but despite what 'forever young' femboys might think if you're physiologically female and want to maintain true androgyny past your mid-late teens you're going to have to block estrogen (and replace it with nothing, have fun with chemical menopause)
women experience a simultaneous hardening and softening of their features around the end of puberty. it's hard to describe, it's like them being 'sealed in'. it's why postpubertal ftm transitioners have the facial tells they do. before then physiological females can be really androgynous if they got a lucky enough mix of genes or at times even if they didn't, but adult women aren't androgynous at all for the most part. it's connected to the phenomenon of 'lesbian aging' where cute baby dykes morph into odd-looking butch adults.
i'm ftm and took blockers starting at 15 -- estrogen had done all kinds of shit to my body by then, though not as much as it would have, my hips are klinefeltermode but my dad's are too. the main salvation was my face. i had a kind of weird first-half-puberty where estrogen didn't do as much as it does for most physiological females, and it didn't touch my face at all. my pre-t face was that of a 12 year old boy, not even a 12 year old girl. four months into t now it's slowly androgenizing skeletally as well as in soft tissue, though it's hard to tell exactly how so early in the game.
on the other hand living in australia makes accessing medical transition young real fucking hard, and most of my friends aren't as lucky as me. i have an ftm friend who's almost 17 and has some decent andro features, like a really strong jawline (though his fat hides it somewhat), but the 'sealant effect' i'm referring to is starting to kick in and he's not going to get t or blockers soon enough to counter it.

>>7166940
i think so.
it's easier to hide your feminine body too with loose/baggy clothes, you can't really 'hide' your masculine body with loose clothes. also, a 6'4 amab person is going to be abnormally tall with a huge frame, which they pretty much just have to rock the amazonian woman look to create any sort of androgyny or femininity, whereas even a 5'0 afab person could probably pass as just a younger/really short person without being labeled as a girl.

>>7167845
I came out at 15 and started seeing a gender therapist at that age too but couldn't afford going to court and only one of my parents were accepting. I did get on blockers by 17 but I kind of wonder how my transition would've turned out if I had those extra 2 years to work with. It's hard trying to get medical help in Australia if you're underage; the system here is absolute bullshit. I had to see 2 different psychiatrists (including a paediatrician) and had to wait 3 years just to get access to E. Just knowing that my body was doing everything I felt it shouldn't so much, and becoming so alienated from it that my only option was to basically kill myself... I don't even know how I'm still alive tbqh.

>>7169075
yeah, i came out at 13 so it was fucking insane
even after the restrictions on blockers were loosened it took me six months to get them because i was the first in my state to take them, ever, and the ethics committee took their sweet fucking time deciding whether it was a good idea or not
i eventually diyed t, and thanks to heavy legal restrictions on anabolic steroids it took a year and a half to even manage that

>>7169097
I wish I knew from a younger age. There was every sign pointing me towards that direction, but I had no idea that being transgender was even a thing, or that the possibility to transition existed. I probably could've gone the illegal route, but I was duped into thinking that was a bad idea, and I'm sure you know how strict Australia is when it comes to importing certain goods. It's pretty fucked how long some of us have to wait, but I'm glad you were able to get on hrt as soon you as did. I think I live in the best state for trans-related health care, but it's still not where it should be. Some states aren't even up to scratch yet, meaning many people have to travel all the way to another just to get help.

>>7169137
yeah, i'm in sa and i know the people in the nt have to go all the way down here to do it
and sa is one of the worse states, i can't imagine travelling all the way across the country just to get involved with this insanity
i suppose there are worse waiting times than four years

>>7166940
Absolutely
Testosterone is a sledgehammer

IMO they tend to always look female. There is no "is that a boy or a girl?" factor, especially if they talk.

>>7166940
Holy shit boy or girl u are fucking fiiiiiiine

>>7167845
So at 22 am I already too late?

I have androgynous features but I'm obviously not a boy.

>>7166977
>hormonal drugs are easy to get so that evens the gap for boys

Lol no it fucking doesn't. Hormones aren't magic.

>>7166940
I think so. I was passing almost 100% of the time even before I went on testosterone. In my experience about half of trans men can pass pre-t as long as they bind and have short, natural colored hair.

>>7170723
Obviously, so you need to grab them while you're still cute an boyish

>>7167845
dude what kind of women have you been looking at because that shit ain't real.

also puberty ends around the age of 16 for women

>>7166940
Yes

Estrogen and femininity are like white crayon
Testosterone and masculinity are like black crayon

a female who has a little extra testosterone is like coloring black crayon over white crayon, its a lot more noticeable and very visibly grey

a male who has a little extra estrogen is like coloring white crayon over black crayon, not as noticeable and still looks mostly black

>>7167845
go watch some transition timelines on youtube. They transition in their late teens and early 20s and none of them will have facial tells that will reveal they're women. that 'sealant effect' you talk about will basically go away after a couple months on t

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>>7167845
dunno what the fuck your talking about
but im 19 almost 20 and look androgynous still and i must have finished puberty 4-5 years ago

there are tons of androgynous females older than 13, this guy transitioned when he was 20 i think

>>7176753
There's...... no change in that pic

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>>7176766
Thats cause he was always androgynous

>>7176813
and a chav from the looks of it.

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>>7170716
No, that anon's an idiot.

You're most likely not going to have any issues with your face after a couple years on T. Take pic related as an example, he didn't start T until his late 20's.

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>>7178396
Sorry for micro-pic, I'm on my phone.

>>7166940
I don't understand gay anymore.
What is amab?

>>7178440
Assigned male at birth

>>7170716
no
>>7176684
>>7176739
>>7176753
i came to this conclusion by looking at a ridiculous amount of cis girls, trans guys, ftm timelines, etc over the course of four years
'95% of trans guys pass fine now' =/= '95% of trans guys will always pass fine'
not only is balian buschbaum an outlier who already had masc features, his facial structure didn't change much, just like any trans guy who transitioned after about 16-18. a trans guy with fem facial features is not going to get masc ones. that's not a problem today, but renee richards could pass as cis back in the 70s too.
there's no such thing as 'too late to transition' though.

>>7179216
show us some examples of the 'sealant effect' then

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>>7179216
>postpubertal ftm transitioners have the facial tells they do
where are renee and balian's facial tells then? if i didn't know renee was trans i would have thought she was just a very masculine looking woman.

also men have the same sealant effect you're talking about, of course you're not going to get more features added to your face post puberty. This isn't just a woman only thing it's a thing for everyone. No one will have a purely feminine or masculine face, heck i've seen boys with a girl's facial structure. No one is going to have a true androgynous face, even people in their mid/late teens. you're either going to look like a woman with masculine features, or a man with feminine features.

on another note t doesn't 'give' you masculine features but rather it masculinizes your face, it redistributes fat into and out of certain areas. Your face is still your face, just more masculine.

>>7178440

Main character of Moby Dick.

"facial tells" are largely bullshit. trans people make up a tiny percentage of the population. so a random person who looks either more masculine or more feminine than usual for their gender is more likely to be cis than trans.

>>7182307
preach

>>7170755
Disagree heavily. I feel like most transmen pre-T are IDed as androgynous lesbians/butch dykes by most and that's that. That's probably because androgynous lesbians/butch dykes often rock the same style as unpassing ftms in early transition.

>>7176753
Looks like my puerto rican ex. In all of those pictures.
Those are also the ftm-equivalents of tranny angles. I can tell since I used to be guilty of those.

>>7166940
you'd think it'd be the other way around considering the advances in the makeup industry with shit like drag makeup and if you'd even wanna consider this makeup, shit like chest applications to make it appear you've got tits. It's hard to make hips and soft jaws go away, but for whatever reason it's easier for everyone to assume someone is male than it is to be assumed female.

I'm drunk. Apologies.