For the sake of clarity, and i know these are not proper definitions,

Gender is not fluid or changeable. We are all born with a biologically hard wired, innate expectation of what our bodies should do and be like. Our gender identity is hard wired ~2 months after the embryo is formed. Like all biological processes this is not perfect.

Trannys suffer from a serious form of intersexuality.

Feminists fucking suck and their beliefs that we can just choose our gender or be fluid shows they have zero understanding of the serious medical condition that is being trans. The want to make it a costume they can take on and off to pretend to be oppressed.

>>6948936
>Trannys suffer from a serious form of intersexuality.

When you say trannys you mean those who change their sex by surgery and hromones?

For those people who are born with both female and male parts or less parts, or things of that nature, i am not confused. The idea why they might want to change their gender makes sense to me. But i am confused by those who are born 100% female and choose to become 100% male.

>>6948955
Yes I mean those who transition from Male to Female or Female to Male.

It's a serious form of neurological intersexuality. Just like physical intersexuality but in the parts of the brain that are crucial in instinct (limbic system and hypothalamus).

They choose to become 100% male or 100% female because their internal gender identity does not match their body. Thus, the instinctual communication our brain has with the body is turbulent and not quite right: gender dysphoria.

It's physically and mentally painful for transgender people to live in the body they are born with because of their mis-matched brain.

Shills and TERFs refuse to acknowledge this because assumes the position of, "born this way." which invalidates their discrimination of transpeople. But all empirical research illustrates this.

Transgenders, by your definition need other people interacting with them to be transgender.

Transsexuals don't like the body they're born into, so they change it to be at peace with themselves, noone else involved.

Therefore transgenders really just dictate you to treat them like the special snowflake they wanna be, a transsexual by your definition wouldn't care enough to partake in this laughable movement, provided the medical sector got them covered.

My line is the difference between the group of trannies who have depressions because of their body and the ones who have depressions because they're beta failures with more far-reaching mental issues.

In case of mtfs - does she want surgeries? Yes - sane enough to converse. No? Avoid. My opinion anyway. Whether or not one can afford those surgeries is secondary. "Not satisfied with current techniques" doesn't qualify.

Same old trutrans debate.

>>6949000
What about people who did hrt for years, lasers and all except SRS, because of disphoria, but never changed gender and don't plan to?

eh? outside your narrative, eh?

>>6948981
Okay so let me get this right:

There are those who have physical intersexuality, as we talked about, then there are those who have neurological interesexuality, related but not the exact same, and then their is a third category of individuals who accept the mental and physical relationship of their body in terms of gender/sex but want to express themselves not as necessarily all masculine or all feminine (transgender as i described it)

Thank you, maybe now i can ask the question better.

What is the difference between physical and nuerological intersexuality? Is someone who is physically intersex necessarily going to have gender dysphoria?

I doubt it, but is there a measurable/quantitative difference between those with gender dysphoria vs those who just like to cross dress? I imagine there being trends and such but the nature of the topic is scientifically very hard to show. Mostly curious if it has been rigorously defined, that is, neurological intersexuality.

>>6949014
No SRS because of dysphoria? What kind of logic is that? I don't give a flying fuck what gender you think of yourself, what matters is the gender others perceive you as and whether you go with it or not.

>>6949020
Yep you've got it right.

Yes it's hard to say fully. Most people who just like to cross dress don't have a gender identity of female. Most cross dressers in the traditional sense are literally just fetishists, the majority being straight men. Cross dressers almost always exaggerate femininity. It's much more of a theatrical thing for them.

>I doubt it, but is there a measurable/quantitative difference between those with gender dysphoria vs those who just like to cross dress

I'm sure there is but we haven't spent the resources to look. I would be very confident in saying that the majority of cross dressers have a neural male pattern.

>What is the difference between physical and nuerological intersexuality? Is someone who is physically intersex necessarily going to have gender dysphoria?

Not always. But there is a massively higher chance of an individual with physical intersexuality to be transgender compared to the average population.

Some intersex people may be intersexed but their gender identity is still correct.

>>6949000
>Transgenders, by your definition need other people interacting with them to be transgender.

Trans by my definition are those who fall between masculine and feminine, which is most everyone. You dont need others around you to be more satisfied at home posting on 4chan wearing a tutu rather than a leather jacket.

>>6949051
> are those who fall between masculine and feminine

Theres a word for that. It's called androgyny. Trans is specifically seeking out to alter your body to match your internal gender identity.

>>6949051
Thats just a crossdress fetish you're speaking of.

>>6949056
Gotcha, bad definitions. But what about very butch women for example. Not necessarily lesbian but 100% masculine, as society would dictate if they were a man. Is this woman transgender, because i dont feel like androgeny is appropriate since they fall very much to one side of the spectrum. (Just trying to clear up definitions here, not really on topic)

> neural male pattern.
Obviously this stuff is in it's infancy so im really only curious about your opinion rather than fact. D you personally think that the neural pattern of individuals are necessarily binary or fall onto a spectrum?

>>6949068
Butch women still identify as women. They aren't trans.

>Obviously this stuff is in it's infancy so im really only curious about your opinion rather than fact. D you personally think that the neural pattern of individuals are necessarily binary or fall onto a spectrum?

I do think it falls on a spectrum. I think the entire process of embryonic development is so multi-faceted and relies on trillions of small biological machines performing their tasks correctly to set in motion a surge of hormones into the womb. Then that surge of hormones operates on trillions of cells. There is so much going on its surely a spectrum.

>>6949068
>D you personally think that the neural pattern of individuals are necessarily binary or fall onto a spectrum?

Okay so here is my thinking. That for an individual to necessarily want to reassign their sex that there has to be a gender binary neural system in place. Obviously there can be some wiggle room as to all that those two categories entail, but they are separate and discrete.

This is because if there instead was a fluid spectrum then someone who falls just a little offcenter to their birth sex will kind of want to change their sex and others who fall overwhelmingly on the opposite side will very much want to.

Maybe that is the case and why some people regret changing their sex? How would one go about separating those with mental struggles vs those who genuinely, but just barely, have neurological intersexuality?

Im just spitballing at this point.

>>6949083
>>6949038
>>6948981


Thank you btw for the responses. I am admittedly not satisfied yet, only because the science isnt there yet. But now i fully understand where the crux of my confusion is and hopefully can communicate it better to others for discussion.

Full circle we can categorize it in this way:

1) Those who have internal disagreements with their body.

2) Those who disagree with how society dictates how they should express themselves.

Similar, but entirely separate.

>>6949111
I have a hard time seeing how 2) makes anyone trans though. Being nonbinary doesn't mean you transition from one thing to another.

>>6949128
>Being nonbinary doesn't mean you transition from one thing to another.

Yeah totally. I am not wed to my definitions. I have found some literature that includes those individuals as trans and others that dont. Honestly, i could care less about definitions. I just wanted to make sure we were on the same page when discussing.

>>6949111
To clarify:

1) Transexuals (anyone who physically changes their sex via SRS and/or hormones)

2) Feminists (not necessarily the Tumblr type but those who reject the idea that a person's sex should dictate how they express themselves in general society)

>>6949103
>science isn't there:

>>6942199
>>6942201
>>6942205
>>6942208

>>6949141
And to oversimplify

>>6949141
As defined here^

If born alone on an island, someone who is transsexual will struggle with their physical identity and will have emotional repercussions as a result of not being able to change it.

A feminist born on an island has none of these issues because no one is around to tell them they are expressing themselves inappropriately. They do not have emotional repercussions because of their given body.

>>6949162
THANK YOU!!!

I just assumed it wasn't and didnt have much luck on google.

>>6949029
I live as male, and I have disphoria in every way except genital. Deal with it, mate.

go to femgen for more such people. are you new here, btw?

>>6949176
I can't think of any other reason for this other than the idea that even neurologically gender/sex is a continuous spectrum. That for some laser hair removal and makeup is enough, others need hormones too, and some also want to go the whole nine yards with SRS.

File: cara-delevingne-kylie-jenner-style-model-spotlight-25.jpg (59KB, 532x742px) Image search: [Google]

59KB, 532x742px

>>6949176
Same desu, but I do have a little genital dysphoria.

>>6949000
Keep in mind that it still hurts for people to stigmatize you regardless of reason whether you are just transgender or transsexual.

I know that for me, the body I had before never felt like mine so I never even felt like I was there during my social interactions. So once I got my body in line with my internal image, I started caring a lot more about my social interactions, so I can tell you that when your existence gets rebuked on that ground it pretty much just feels terrible.

I thought about it and this is probably the best analogy I can think of. Say in your childhood you were always chubby from genetic disposition and so everyone just started calling you Tubby. You never enjoy it, but you don't feel like you can do much about it for years, until you grow up. Now suddenly you have the means to fix it through surgeries and various other means, and so you become a much healthier weight. But still everyone knows you as Tubby, so the name follows you everywhere no matter what you do to try to alleviate it. It is the same idea, it just ends up feeling that no matter what you do, you can't get away from this part of you that you have no real way to do much about it. Lots of people realize you've put an effort in, but there will always be those core group of people that either find it funny to go with the old narrative, or just don't care to put in the effort to remember anything.

>>6949176
Not new here, no, but that doesn't change the fact that "girls" who like their dicks aren't girls in my book. Much less so if they themselves acknowledge they're guys. Don't quite get your point? Femgen going slow again and you need another thread for attention? This one's about trannies.

>>6949000
but how can you tell whether youre actually trans or just a beta failure? surely dysphoria can (but doesnt necessarily) cause problems in life that would make you a "failure"? is there a point in transitioning, like starting hormones when you can tell for sure? or is it just a matter of confidence; the more strongly you believe yourself to be trans, the more likely you actually are?

also, do you believe that weeding out the beta failures is better for them than letting them go ahead with transitioning if they want to do so?

>>6949203
>I thought about it and this is probably the best analogy I can think of. Say in your childhood you were always chubby from genetic disposition and so everyone just started calling you Tubby. You never enjoy it, but you don't feel like you can do much about it for years, until you grow up. Now suddenly you have the means to fix it through surgeries and various other means, and so you become a much healthier weight. But still everyone knows you as Tubby, so the name follows you everywhere no matter what you do to try to alleviate it. It is the same idea, it just ends up feeling that no matter what you do, you can't get away from this part of you that you have no real way to do much about it. Lots of people realize you've put an effort in, but there will always be those core group of people that either find it funny to go with the old narrative, or just don't care to put in the effort to remember anything.

I like the analogy. But are you suggesting that SRS/hormones/lasers/etc resolves this issue, or rather is this what you face having gone through SRS/hormones/lasers/etc?

>>6949256
>>6949256
Or better yet that SRS/hormones/lasers resolve this issue better than simply changing your gender expression.

THIS is the crux of what i meant originally. Are SRS/lasers/hormones purely or even mostly a response to societal pressures?

>>6949203
I know deadnaming and the likes is a horrible thing. Still, you made an effort and don't just go like I'm a girl now because I say so. That's the difference I was addressing.

The people I know who deadname me are a proper mess in the head and can't get it right cause they don't care, which is okay. It's annoying, yes, but not caring might just be the best thing. It means you're still the person to them that they've met and not someone with whom they're hard-pressed to mind pronouns.

If I were them and met someone who transitioned I'd probably be extra careful to mind the pronouns which in turn alienates the relationship I have with that person to a degree. If that's what you want, okay, that sucks, but I think I've made these acquaintances on the grounds of being who I am at that time.

If you lose your shit over that like most people who are just trans for that very purpose, you have some issues to take care of, imo.

Much love to everyone responding. I have grilled many friends and posted on many forums/boards with little to no discussion.

>>6948912
There isn't a spectrum. I wish people would stop using that word to describe anything with two focal points and some variations.

>>6949323
I think a gender spectrum just about anyone with a brain could agree on. Men and women do not categorically fit into one of two narrowly defined categories in how they represent themselves.

However neurologically i am still not convinced whether there is a spectrum or broad yet discrete categories.

>>6949247
>also, do you believe that weeding out the beta failures is better for them than letting them go ahead with transitioning if they want to do so?

I don't know because I can't and don't want to relate to these people. What I've seen however was that this kind were just the especially childish type, which makes me think transitioning is just treating a symptom and not the cause.

>is there a point in transitioning, like starting hormones when you can tell for sure?
Yes I believe there is. No definite timeframe but at some point you definitely know whether you did the right thing or not. Taking hormones obviously helps.

If you have dysphoria, of course you're likely to also be a beta failure, but the difference is that you in fact have dysphoria. I have a feeling a lot of people throw that word around because they picked it up and use it to explain what they otherwise find hard to explain but actually do not know what dysphoria feels like.

>>6949335
It's an incorrect model used by people without a brain that thinks about it.

When you look at a color spectrum at the band defined for the color blue, you don't see the color blue sometimes have the properties of orange and other times of green.

There isn't a sex or gender spectrum. Anyone that starts talking about one just announces that they already don't understand the subject and have a false belief which informs their views.

>>6949381
So you think that everyone that has ever existed is expresses themselves as only 100% masculine or 100% feminine?

That is blatantly wrong. The idea of gender is a social one and sex is a biological one. Don't conflate the two.

>>6949402
Nice strawman you blithering idiot.

Your spectrum definition has as much intelligence to it as saying sex is a rainbow, gender is a prism, gender is a tidal force, radiation or even magnets. It's just nonsense that obfuscates and dumbs down the actual subject.

Now you want to separate sex and gender completely because of piss poor memes you've heard repeated over and over by stupid people. Absolutely ridiculous.

>>6949419
Im trying to understand what you mean. But as has been made clear by many on this thread the ideas of gender and sex are separate. The former being the outward expression and reaction from general public and the latter being your own conception of yourself. Help me understand your point.

>>6949419
>>6949381

And please stop with the ad hominems if you are going to bitch about logical fallacies:

>Anyone that starts talking about one just announces that they already don't understand the subject and have a false belief which informs their views.
>people without a brain that thinks about it.
>don't understand the subject and have a false belief which informs their views.

You had little substance to your argument so i was de facto left with guessing what point you are making. Please go in more depth, i am genuinely curious.

>>6949430
Did I or did I know initially post this?
>anything with two focal points and some variations.

Anyone with half a brain doesn't read that and translate it to a model of all of A and none of B, or all of B and none of A.

If you have to lie about something posted only a few minutes ago which is very obvious then you don't have a point at all. You're just desperately trying to defend an incorrect model of sex and gender.

This is why nobody takes these discussions seriously in the real world because stupid people like you refuse to live in reality. You want your spectrum sex and disembodied souls and genders, and then wonder why a 13 year old identifies as the planet Pluto and 12 other multi-dimensional entities.

>>6948936
Sex and gender means different things, but your ideas are solid you switch gender with sex.

Gender is just how we treat people based on what we think of their sex.

Source: Sociology textbook.

>>6949402
To what degree someone expresses themselves as masculine or feminine has nothing to do with their gender. Gender is not defined by how you act or dress. There is no spectrum, there is only what body aligns with what brain and how a brain responds to hormones.

>>6949445
There is no logical discussion with people like you. You're dumb and refuse to change. It would take you less than five minutes to self reflect and change but you don't do it. It's like arguing with a young earth creationist, there's no point to it for any serious discussion.

>>6949477
So you dont actually have an argument to make, just bitching. Okay.

>>anything with two focal points and some variations.
didnt post this.

Can you make a point already or are you only capable of ad hominems?

> You're just desperately trying to defend an incorrect model of sex and gender.

OP and i never once made absolute definitions or ideas related to the topic. My intent is to feel out those definitions accepted in pop culture and contextualize them in my point of confusion.

>This is why nobody takes these discussions seriously
I can't take you seriously unless you provide something other than a logical fallacy, which is literally the sum of all the posts you have made.

You have still yet to make even a minor argument let alone a well supported one.

>>6949256
No, I am saying that you go through the procedures and come to the you that you feel is real, and you present that to the world. When THAT gets rejected it really hurts because you have a serious emotional attachment to it, and in fact you feel like you've gone through hell, and sometimes you literally have, to reach that state. It ends up feeling like you've done basically everything you can to achieve a stable a livable state and the world still rejects you for it.

Keep in mind, this only applies for people that have a stable end goal in mind, not those gender flip-floppers, or femboys and whatnot. That is a whole ball-park I feel no connection to.

>>6949278
Okay, I see what you are saying and it definitely has merit too. I would say that there is definitely a period of sensitivity in a transition so I warned all of my friends of this when I started and I didn't lose any friends over it.

I think the way I explained it to them was: "You think this is weird for you? Trust me, it is far weirder for me. I am only doing it because it has to be done for me to have any reasonable hope of a future.

If you think about it, you are filling your system with estrogen for the first time and going through puberty. There is a reason why teenage girls are sensitive over some things that make no sense to anyone else. I will agree that if you are still losing your shit after like the first year mark, once all the hormones have settled, then yeah you definitely have insecurity issues to work out.

>>6949485
There is a separation between gender identity and gender expression.


>There is no logical discussion with people like you.
Lol i am literally being more welcoming and open to your ideas than you could ever find anywhere on the internet and you refuse to make an argument. Stop bitching at me or peoples intelligence and display your own idea in a logical way, then we can have a discussion. But if only bitch about logical fallicies supported by more logical fallacies then you are literally the problem to a lacking of coherent and logical discussion. I dont even care if we agree but i genuinely want an actual enlargement instead of the ad hominems you throw around so loosely. Otherwise just sage the thread kohai.

>>6949496
I did make my argument already and all you're doing is proving what I said. You don't get to make an appeal to ad hominem just because you don't like your incessant defense of a clearly flawed model being related back to your flawed personality.

Yeah unfortunately your stupid ideas aren't separated from your stupid mind. That's just the way it is. If it wasn't so then you wouldn't have pleaded ignorance and constructed strawmen. Too late now buddy.

>>6949506
>feel is real
Never said that. Feelings are hugely separate from reality, all day long. I do feel it, yes. But i need logical argumentation or journal research to change that feeling to align with the "real" which has not been provided with your consistent logical fallacies.

>>6949517
Bro this is an anonymous fucking website. I dont know where you begin and end with your posts. Link to the argument you already made, make a new one or gtfo.

>>6949517
More importantly i have never once disagreed with you or agreed with you. I am simply annoyed by your lack of argumentation and evidence.

>>6949522
I would argue that all reality is subjective on a personal basis, so your feelings will color the way you look and experience everything. But digressing from that, I was talking from my personal experience, not really yours. I meant you in an explanatory fashion rather than a literal sense.

>>6949517
FFS are you trolling me or are we hopefully going to find some source of contention to discuss, because going back and forth without you making an argument is not worth my time.

My gender is ultra violet :^)

>>6949537
Haha i am totally going off topic with this, but does that mean there is not objective way to define anything in this world?

btw is a totally accepted philosophy, curious if that is where you align.

>>6949542
I needed that haha

>>6949537
>all reality is subjective on a personal basis
>digressing from that, I was talking from my personal experience

Cant have your cake and eat it too.

>>6949506
>after like the first year mark, once all the hormones have settled, then yeah you definitely have insecurity issues to work out.

Make that two years. At which point you probably also start working on getting SRS, which entails another endocrine and emotional reconfiguration. Keeping your cool makes all the difference.

>>6949560
to clarify if this topic is subjective then there is no point in arguing. If it is objective as i believe then your "personal experience" do not qualify as evidence for your argument.

>>6949506
And FUCK YOU because i totally with you analysis in response to >>6949278 :)

>No, I am saying that you go through the procedures and come to the you that you feel is real
I am fully aware of my own personal biases, and how logic works. Im not going to fall prey to fallacies so readily as you assume i will.

I am most curious about your opinion on whether neurologically there is a gender binary. You claim there is a gender binary. Why? What logical line do you follow that makes you think that? Or, what scientific papers can you provide that support that?

>>6949537
I think that equally both of our logical fallacies and bitching has shown we are clearly ships passing in the night. I am frustrated because i still havent found the crux of our disagreement.

>>6948912
Ignoring any fuckhead that may or may not have replied previously: dysphoria is a very real thing, and people may want to fix their bodies accordingly regardless of how fluid they view gender. There is obviously a difference between people being genderfluid and people being transsexual, but it's not mutually exclusive.

Being transsexual is a combination of hormonal, neurological and societal factors that make you feel uncomfortable in your body. Basically you feel like your body is not your own and you want to gtfo.

For some people hormonal theraphy is enough. Some people may want surgery. The gender binary may force people into surgery they don't actually want because society has expectations on different sexes.

Transexualism is only as binary as society makes it. Transexual people change more than they'd want because they want people around them to accept them for who they are and their gender.

Also, stop fucking thinking about gender in set theory. You're wrong. Bring the fucking fuzzy logic. Spectrum are the way. If you disagree you're old and scared

>>6948912
Ignoring any fuckhead that may or may not have replied previously: dysphoria is a very real thing, and people may want to fix their bodies accordingly regardless of how fluid they view gender. There is obviously a difference between people being genderfluid and people being transsexual, but it's not mutually exclusive.

Being transsexual is a combination of hormonal, neurological and societal factors that make you feel uncomfortable in your body. Basically you feel like your body is not your own and you want to gtfo.

For some people hormonal theraphy is enough. Some people may want surgery. The gender binary may force people into surgery they don't actually want because society has expectations on different sexes.

Transexualism is only as binary as society makes it. Transexual people change more than they'd want because they want people around them to accept them for who they are and their gender.

Also, stop fucking thinking about gender in set theory. You're wrong. Bring the fucking fuzzy logic. Spectrum are the way of the futyre. If you disagree you're old and scared

>>6949619
>Transexualism is only as binary as society makes it. Transexual people change more than they'd want because they want people around them to accept them for who they are and their gender.

btw i totally agree with what you have said overall. I merely presented these ideas originally to spark discussion as i am unclear which side i agree with more.

What concerns me is whether or not transsexualism is a product of personal biology and independent of society or it is dependent on society. The latter of which confuses me.

>>6949619
>>6949630
Clarifying:

>or some people hormonal
That line of thinking i agree with totally and it supports a neural gender binary.

But when you say thins like:
>Transexualism is only as binary as society makes it.

I am confused as to whether changing one's sex physically is more due to innateness or societal pressures. Both of which i could see and agree with, but i am not convinced one way or another.

>>6949619
>Spectrum are the way of the futyre.
Not the way things are currently going. It's so fashionable to label yourself a hundred things. So why not be 4 genders at once.

There has always been a behavioural spectrum and we all know the ultra faggy type of gays, which probably lean somewhat to the "feminine side" of the spectrum, but does all that bull need a name? Behave however you want, why does it need a fucking label? People are gonna figure much better who or what you are when you let them just observe and don't scare them all away dictating how you are to be thought of. It's an ultra cancerous type of trend. Very akin to excusing being a fucking psycho with self-diagnosed PTSD.

>>6949639
>I am confused as to whether changing one's sex physically is more due to innateness or societal pressures.

Do you have dysphoria or no? And don't just assume you have dysphoria because being on /lgbt/ made you internalize that you're totally trans and therefor MUST have dysphoria. Reflect on yourself and figure out if you really do. At this point society's role is entirely irrelevant, because dysphoria is about you alone.
If you're unsure whether you have dysphoria, it's extremely unlikely you're trans. If you can't definitely answer the question when you seriously think about yourself, it's extremely unlikely that you're trans. If you're a fatty or an uggo, odds are you have body image issues, yes, but that's not dysphoria and you shouldnt go and try to explain it away with dysphoria.

>>6949596
Well, I can state right now I am not a professional 4chan arguer, I don't carry scientific papers in my pocket nor do I care to do so.

I also totally don't know if there is neurologically more than the standard gender binary, not do I extremely concern myself with it because it doesn't really relate to my own experiences. Maybe when I get to the point where I am done dealing with my own changes I can leisurely contemplate such things. Until then I mostly try to stick to the things I've experienced and can draw from. I generally use empirical evidence to form my conclusions. I can read other things people say and I can agree with the notions of it, but I won't take anything as canon unless I can confirm it.

So yeah, the short story I do believe there is a gender binary in the brain. Maybe the flip-floppers are truly mixed up and have signals from both sides, which would be truly unfortunately. This is not me though, so this is only conjecture.

>>6949607
I'm not even convinced we were truly disagreeing, just phrasing things in different ways.

>>6949574
Okay, that is understandable. I actually agree with you there, I still have some ridiculous mood swings at the 1.3 year mark, and I can only imagine what SRS is going to bring onto the table.

>>6949162
you're not going to convince me that i "have a female brain," without setting me up in a brain scan. and yet i have pretty severe GD.

see >>6949779
>>6949794

and i'll reiterate here

the evidence does not suggest that a mtf "has a female brain," but rather that transgender people have an intersex condition of several brain regions, and perhaps others.

>>6948912
>i am defining transgenders as individuals who fall on the masculine/feminine spectrum and individuals who are transsexual as those who have physically changed their bodies with hormones and surgery.

I just lump'em all under the 'mentally ill' category
http://www.thepublicdiscourse.com/2015/06/15145/

>>6949822
>Paul McHugh

Kek.

>>6949749
Yeah, i think we agree more than is apparent.

>>6949668
Neither, i am comfortably cis male.

You cannot deny the general populace. If you partake in any activity or hobbies that relate and engage in communities you are participating in the binary because everyone else is cis.

>>6950012
I thought sexual orientation and sexual/gender identity are different things.

>>6948936

Yea what the fuck, I'm a cultural anthropologist, and gender exists only in conjunction with culture. Being trans is totally cognitive. It isn't a biological trait