FtM?

>>6868530
So you desire to have a male body, but not the male social role? Being a woman or a man is not about gender roles. On the other hand if you mean that you don't want to be perceived as a male that's another thing.

I'm sorry but your thoughts are a bit too scattered for me to make sense of them. Can you please rephrase them?

In your eyes what does it mean for one to feel like a man or a woman?

>>6868554
I'm sorry, It's currently 6 AM and I haven't slept because of this, english is also not my first language so I'm not that great at expressing myself.
I know that being a man or a woman is not about gender roles, since I have been treated as a masculine woman for a while, and while I don't care what other people see me as, and I don't have much social dysphoria (besides being a little self conscious of looking and other people seeing me as feminine, maybe it's internalized misogyny)
I honestly don't know, there is just this big incredible discomfort of saying "I am a woman" or being told that I am one, it's like, maybe imagine you left your phone at a public bathroom, that sort of dread but it only lasts a few seconds. I could feel more comfortable saying I'm a boy, or a man, or whatever, but it's not completely true, it's maybe 55-60% true. And I fear that this might change over time and maybe in a year it might be 100% true. It's just the difference between comfort and discomfort of being seen or treated (by myself or others) as something.

>>6868582
No worries. Sharing these feelings is always difficult.
I'm afraid I don't really know what to tell you as this is very far from my experience. Sorry. If you are not seeing a therapist consider doing so.

One thing I can say for sure is that you shouldn't let anyone push you down one road or another overly hastily. People like to try to make things fit into neat little boxes. Reject any narrative that does not feel true to your experience. Don't conform for the sake of being able to say you are one thing or another.

>>6868530
complete honesty:
i'm in a not entirely dissimilar context to you. 18, straight dude who is sex discordant and really bitter about it. came out as 13. have been tracking the trans community on a regular basis and known over many years a lot of people within it.
your story is consistently the origin story i hear from people who later come to experience regret, detransition, and often become angry gender critical radfems.

>>6868620
*came out at 13, not as

>>6868605
Thanks man, it's good enough that you replied, you're pretty nice.
I used to go to a therapist, but we rarely got to talk about gender issues since most of it was about my immaturity, depression and my relationship with my parents, but that's something else.
My girlfriend and I talk about this sometimes, she is very understanding and has researched a lot about it because of me, so I think I'll be fine with her help, if in the future these feelings get stronger, I assure you that I won't care what my parents think about transitioning, thanks again :^)

>>6868620
I think that if I transition I will most likely regret it, so that's what will probably hold me back, so I'll wait a few years and see if I still want to do it, it's never too late to get on T anyway.

>>6868644
in a few years, the critical mass of detransitioners may well be high enough that you've heard the story too much to transition anyway
we live in interesting times

>>6868624
With all due respect for your girlfriend a professional is still probably more knowledgeable. If this sincerely bothers I highly recommend seeing one. You don't have to take what they say at face value.

>>6868644
>>6868661
Is T really that different from E? I know that for an MtF waiting a few years pretty much means resigning to never passing.

>>6868676
Don't take that as me pushing you to transition, mind. It could very well be that not transitioning is the best path for you. I genuinely don't know.

>>6868530
You will probably not enjoy looking like a man when everyone treats you like a man, from the sounds of it. I'd suggest seeing a therapist though, sounds like you have a lot of stuff that needs working out.

>>6868676
this board is obsessed with the idea that if an mtf transitions after age 12 she will never pass and will be a disgusting hon her whole life
see the fact that hon general has mid-20s as the age threshold when the average age of transition for a very long time was early 40s and most trans women went stealth without issue after transitioning
for ftms things are different but not actually in a more optimistic way -- because female puberty is disgustingly early and getting earlier as the obesity epidemic goes on (breast development at age 7 or 8 is now normal), from mid-teens on the vast majority of ftms are equally fucked and will never look like real men (am i bitter? i am more bitter than you could possibly imagine), and even before then transition has to be unethically young to develop features realistically like a cis man's
however most people have never heard of ftms and can't spot us so we're okay...for now

>>6868666
It's okay, I know a professional will always be better but there are no LGBT therapists in my area (maybe even my country) and they never helped anyway (have been going to psychologists since I was 5) I think it's better if I figure it out on my own, the gf is if I need someone else's opinion sometimes.

>>6868691
I honestly think that if you transition after your late teens your odds aren't good either way.

>>6868710
very true
i started blockers at 15 though and i'm still struggling to be optimistic
a couple months into t i think i'm taller but i'm probably just deluding myself and i'm terrified my shoulders/hips will look like this forever
>tfw will never have a powerful yet streamlined male skeleton with broad shoulders and narrow pelvis
>tfw can tell someone's assigned physiological sex by assessing the ratio of their upper and lower arms because years of delayed transition created horrible neuroses

>>6868710
though i actually think trans women who transitioned in 20s look far, far better than trans men who did

>>6868706
Just realize that this is your life that we're talking about. You need to figure yourself out so that you can do what needs to be done - or not do anything at all. Either way your action or inaction will be deliberate which is greatly preferable to simply letting things resolve by themselves without understanding the consequences.

>>6868737
It's funny how the grass is always greener someplace else. Transwomen always go on and on about how how transmen are lucky because T is so powerful that it can almost always make you pass.

>>6868745
i mean i definitely don't envy mtfs
when they look bad, they look really, really bad
but at least masculine features on women aren't treated as extremely, endlessly negatively as feminine features on men are
>5'4" with a low whr and no peen

>>6868724
>tfw forever-in-the-closet-but-would-mtf with that exact skeleton
lets trade skeletons desu how hard can that be? figure this shit out and get back to me.

>>6868737
How so? I think it's harder for trans women to transition and pass because you're trying to take away (body hair, get higher voice, get more femenine bodies and faces) and with trans men you're adding (body hair, making your voice deeper, getting more muscle, etc) so it's easier for them, I still think a lot of trans women look great, even if they're andro and dont completely look "like women"

>>6868765
because both are at a point where their fundamental sexed features can be overriden but not entirely, and 'female with masculine base' looks better than 'male with feminine base'
tall rectangular women with strong features look better than short pear-shaped men with rounded ones

>>6868768
also t is supposed to break an ftm voice but post-puberty the effect is terrible and more 'gay 15-year-old forever' than anything
mtfs can't unbreak their voices but they have good voice training resources and can sound indistinguishable from cis with work

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>>6868768
Hm, true, with a lot of tw you can still tell they're trans tho, so I think we're even and each have their own problems and difficulties. Maybe you're right tho, take a look at this guy (no bully for uncropped pic pls) He's been on T for 15 years but he's a manlet and probably 5'4 or whatever.

>>6868774
He looks great though, even if he is pulling a faggy pursed-lip face.

>>6868769
The gay voice you hear in FtMs would be negated if they could actually be bothered to voice train though. But no. Most of them also don't work out, and a lot are also fat. It's a right shame.

>>6868768
I know they're exceedingly rare to be over 5'5 but there have, occasionally, been tall FtMs of 6ft and over. One dude I read about had some growth... hormone... genetic/family issues? Perhaps? This was a long time ago. Anyway all of his male immediate relatives were tall, and he started young enough to shoot up nearly a foot in height on Test.

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>>6868811
i'm genuinely not sure if i'm growing on t or not
my parents are 5'7" and 6'0", my 13 year old cis brother is 5'9", yet my height when i started blockers that remained consistent while taking them was 5'3"
i might be 5'4" now but i also might just be deluding myself, measurements are inconclusive because i've gotten both results
i don't know why i'm so short and i hate it and think every day about my awful height

also, ftm voice training is a fairly interesting topic. anyone who's watched enough youtube videos knows there's a dire need for it, but the community is so delusional as to not realize that and so there are no resources. the ftm community in general is awful and has been taken over by trenders, and thus will be even more fucked when the detransition tsunami comes.

>>6868815
Sorry for my ignorance but why do trans guys use blockers? I know it blocks female puberty from beginning/progressing, but why not just take T instead?

>>6868852
i started them at 15 so was still in female puberty
i live in straya, which has a terrible broken system for underage transition, and it was a miracle i could get them at all
i started self medding t at 17 (itself a miracle because straya also has strict steroid restrictions) and turned 18 a month ago, my appointment to see the adult endo and get legal t is in a couple weeks

>>6868855
Not that person but good luck.

I'm in a similar boat, OP. I'm not sure what I want to do, if anything. Kind of different though, in that I'm in my 20s and only recently really learned what FtM even is.

It's weird, I don't really relate to statements like "I feel like a guy, I'm a man," etc, but whenever I imagine myself in my mind's eye I just see a male, whenever I dream I'm male, etc. I don't know if that's weird, or if it means I'm not trans, or if it's moot because normal people don't go around thinking to themselves "I'm a man/woman!" all day.

I only 'felt like a guy' when I was a kid/teenager, maybe because I was having a feminine identity more heavily imposed on me. But like I said, I didn't know FtM was a thing, and it sort of felt expected that girls naturally want to be boys because boys were 'better'. So I figured I must just be a typical retarded child and kept my shit to myself, figuring anyone would dismiss me and/or double down on trying to feminise me.

As an adult, the social stuff doesn't matter that much anymore (I don't act very feminine so people rarely reference me as a woman, though it's still always insanely uncomfortable when they do or seem like they might. But it's not like 'incorrect, I am a man!' it just feels super fucking uncomfortable). And the physical stuff I've just sort of developed a necessary complacency with (but since thinking about this shit, I'm pretty much as bad as I was when I was a teenager).

I think for me, especially considering my age, the risk of not passing or regretting probably takes hormones off the table. And the thought of looking fully male but still having tits and monthlies just fucking disgusts me desu.
I've wanted a mastectomy and hysterectomy since I was a teenager just because, so maybe some day.

I don't fucking know.
I'm sort of seeing how it goes. If I still feel this way about it down the road, I might look into talking to someone. Probably should either way, but probably won't either way so what's the difference.

>>6868954
your boat sounds a lot different from op because you legitimately sound like a tran rather than a future terf
also t will stop your periods after probably a few months, though the interquartile range is wide
also also, my whole '99% of ftm are fthon' thing must be interpreted through the lens that i have known approx. 1 billion more trans than any random person has, and as long as ftm visibility stays low you will not get clocked on the street

>>6868968
>because you legitimately sound like a tran
Goddamn it anon, please just call me a trender faggot and let me stay in my familiar hell with no need to confront change, I can't deal with this shit. Can't be a man if I'm a pussy, check mate.

Anyway, pressing pause on this existential crisis because I needed to go to sleep 5 hours ago and should probably get onto that at some point. Fuck this gay earth.

>>6868954
I can't tell you for sure but you sound like you might be trans. I heard the whole "I thought everyone of my gender wanted to be the other gender!" thing from SO many transsexuals.

Please go see a therapist if you can.

>>6868954
OP here, I get you friendo, specially in the "incorrect! I'm a man" thing because it is uncomfortable to be referred as a female.
I see a lot of trans guys and I kind of feel this longing and wish to look like that, but I also don't think I want to get rid of my tits (not right now anyway) but looking in the mirror and seeing a flat chest just sounds so good, sometimes I think I'll miss the way my female body feels and looks, but I'd get over it because it'd feel so much better to look more manly. There's also the way transitioning will affect my life, everyone will treat me as a male and that sounds pretty... meh? Not too appealing, but also not bad, I worry that no one will love me and I'll stay single forever desu, no one wants a guy with hairy (actual) tits and and bagina ;-; I'm also too proud to tell my parents that I actually wanted to transition when I told them no a million times in the past, but that's not important tbqh.

>>6868996
my uncle also trains man he is driver. sometimes he get death threats but never rape. stay strong trains is hard job