>"sir, SIR?"

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>>6843533
>Sire

>boymode at work
>texting boss
>get called sir
>without thinking type and send "please don't call me sir"
>spend like three minutes staring at my phone in horror asking myself why I just did that
>"why do you not want me to call you sir"
>"iunno"
>he stops calling me sir after that

>>6843574
tell him it's too formal and you prefer not to be called sir to be more friendly

>>6843589
>>6843574
tell him sorry XD it's just you're PMS !

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>>6843574
you should have told him to start calling you "my man" or "f a m"

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>>6843645
I like your style, f a m.

>>6843538
>Wood needed, my liege

>>tumblr

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>>6843533
Wassupwidit bitch

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>gender studies professor calls you xe instead of ze

>>6843533
>be femboy
>at store last night
>obviously using very male voice
>get called ma'am
God fucking damnit why did you fucks have to popularize yourselves so much? I get that you all didn't personally do it, necessarily, but still.

Now I get called ma'am half the time because people see a really feminine guy and assume it's a tranny and don't want to #trigger. It's so embarrassing.

>>6844321
How would you be able to tell, I'm pretty sure they are pronounced the same, unless you are using the IPA pronunciation of "x"

>>6845013
Unless you live in like San francisco or the gay parts of seattle, no one is "pity-gendering" hons. If someone calls you ma'am its because you crossed some threshold that made them consider you to be more a woman than a man. In simple terms, you passed. If thats not what you want, sucks for you. But don't blame some pathetic idea of "trans-positivity" for that, because the majority of the world arent going to do any favors for a tranny.

>>6845059
That's the fucking joke.

>>6845077
I'm in a red state actually, but the thing is nobody could pass for female with my voice.

>>6845077

Portland.

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>tfw you couldn't tell if they said "man" or "ma'am"

>>6845464
I have auditory processing issues, so I never can unless I read their lips.

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>8 months hrt
>all my friends tell me how well I would pass
>go outside in girl mode for the first time
>ordering food
>"How can I help you today, sir?"
>mfw

>>6843533
>be MtF
>be grocery shopping
>go to deli section for sandwich meats/cheeses
>fat black lady working deli
>normally, I pass quite well
>lady, "What can I get you sir... uh ma'am."
>maybe I'm just having one of those off days
>I haven't been sir'd by anyone in 6 years
>maybe she just had a stupid slip up
>glare at this bitch for a moment
>holding in desire to call her Harambe
>continue with my cheese order
>go on with day
>fucking gorilla-looking fat bitch

>>6846401
Could be automatic response ie "force of habit"
No need to get mad when she corrected herself correctly, a cis woman wouldn't

>>6843645
>>6843676
My pronouns are f a m/f a m/famself

>>6845077
cashiers and retail employees tend to be politically correct

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>>6845658
>all my friends tell me how well I would pass
>"How can I help you today, sir?"
tfw iktf

>>6846592
I answer phones and work a cash register and I avoid using gendered honorifics
Or I could start calling everyone "miss" just to fuck with people

>>6846616
>Or I could start calling everyone "miss" just to fuck with people
nice misandry shitlord
kappa

>>6845464
I can't tell either. I don't want to get my hopes up, but other times at the same places they use sir, so I'm thinking they'd stay with the formal "ma'am". If it was a music store or something, then they'd probably be saying "man".

Das earth is a cube guize

Normally I get called "sir" but more recently people have been avoiding using gendered terms with me.

Also this happened
>came out to mom about a month ago
>she didn't take it very well
>a few days later get my hair cut more femininely
>go to church with her the next morning, boymode of course still
>an old man holds the door open for my mom and I
>"after you, ladies"

>>6846401
I have done this at work as a cashier. A lot of woman in line and I keep repeating the exact same words, then a man comes and I repeat the same sentence like a robot

>>6846807
you probably made some hon's day

>>6846733
Thanks I made it myself

>>6846811
I can just imagine it
>I was at the grocery store in boymode today and I passed flawlessly huns!!

I remember the first time I got called "sir". I was 14 and had just gotten my first haircut. I used to pass as a boy all the time back then. Nowadays I can't though. A 5'0 14 year old boy is short but not abnormal. Now that I am an adult it's not passable.

>be at library
>some lady needs my help and calls me "sir", probably because she didn't speak English that well
>it felt so cool

>>6845077
>He's never heard of Western Europe
Shit happens all the time here. I know a brute of a guy, 6'4" at least, decided he was trans, looks less like a hon and more just like a fucking tall dude with a ponytail, gets called ma'am and she all the time out of pity/PCism.

>>6853003
Knock off the misgendering you fucking ass

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>>6843533
>1.5 years full time. had FFS passing 100%
>waiting in line at grocery store
>"I can help you over here sir"
>I respond and start walking to the other regester
>"oh, uh you can come too miss"
>he was talking to the guy in front of me
>I still respond to sir

>>6846592
maybe in your area. Although, to be fair, I feel like I live in a particularly impolite area.

>>6854030
you were about to cut the line! that's rude

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>"What a handsome young man you are. Girls must be fighting over you like crazy."

>>6854594
>"You should cut your hair, it's making you look too young, people won't take you seriously."

>>6854637
>"Long hair doesn't suit your face anyway. Cut it, you look ridiculous!"

>"You're a girl. Girls need to shave their legs. It's not natural otherwise."

>>6845435
You look too feminine then, way to go, now just change your documents over and you'll be full blown tranny. Welcome :^)

This is going to sound like a troll but:

I'm a man and I wouldn't even get offended if someone thought I was a woman for some reason. (Unlikely to happen due to my looks.) If I know a man is calling me a woman with some misogynistic belief that being a woman is something to be ashamed of in first place, and thus expects me to be hurt, that makes me angry of course, but for completely different reasons.

So can somebody explain me how this, well, obsession(?) over being perceived as a woman works? I mean, people claim it's about some deeply seated "gender identity" that everyone has, but I don't think that any non-misogynist man would feel bad if someone makes a simple mistake of thinking he's female (it could get irritating if it keeps happening, but that's a different matter), and I'd guess that the same applies to women -- the only reason a woman would feel insulted from being perceived as a male would probably be because she thinks it's terribly important to be "pretty" in accordance to sexist beauty norms, and a masculine body is perceived as not being pretty in accordance to those norms.

So, where does trans people's strong desire to be perceived as a certain sex come from?

>>6854784
the difference is one random person mistakenly thinking you're a woman vs the entire world

>>6854784

Most cis people don't get misgendered dozens of times a day for years on end.

>>6854784

Okay so imagine you had your brain, but in a female body. You grew up physically as a girl, but your brain was exposed to certain hormones at crucial times and in a statistical anomaly, you ended up with your male brain.

Would you be okay with being a woman and only ever being seen as a woman? If you try to play videogames/sports they tell you to do something more lady-like, like dancing or singing.

Heck, maybe you want to pursue a degree in math or something, but your parents tell you that's not a degree for a woman and you should do something in the humanities. This follows you throughout your life for the rest of your life, and you're told to be cute, wear dresses, and be a good wife. All in spite of your male brain which only you realize you have.

>>6854784
>the only reason a woman would feel insulted from being perceived as a male would probably be because she thinks it's terribly important to be "pretty"
>I'm a man and I wouldn't even get offended if someone thought I was a woman
damn you are dumb for not being able to put it together

>>6854807

In what society is video gaming masculine?

>>6854807
not conforming to gender roles is NOT THE REASON PEOPLE TRANSITION
people transition because, correct, their brain is a gender that does not match what they were assigned - WHICH CAUSES EXCRUCIATING PHYSICAL DYSPHORIA. it may cause people to deviate from gender roles as well, but it might not (e.g. the incredible amount of of videogame addicted, IT working trans women).

>>6854836
What? Unless you're including mobile games, it's definitely seen as something male.

>>6854936
this
the majority of video games is made by men who predominately make games that are appealing to other men

>>6854796
>>6854799
So is the problem just that it gets irritating and frustrating due to frequency? That doesn't seem to reflect the amount of insult/injury trans people claim to feel when being misgendered. (Or is /lgbt/ not the kind who goes "misgendering is literal violence"?)

>>6854807
>Okay so imagine you had your brain, but in a female body. You grew up physically as a girl, but your brain was exposed to certain hormones at crucial times and in a statistical anomaly, you ended up with your male brain.
Sorry but I don't believe in female and male brains. The science behind that is shoddy at best. If I had the exact same brain but a female body ... first of all it's impossible for me to know how I would feel because my whole psychological development starting from age 0 would be vastly different, but from all I can guess I would not feel bad. Hell, put me into a female body right now and I wouldn't feel bad, though I have some mild AGP so that might be complicating things.

And as others say, your post relies very heavily on conservative sex stereotypes. It's like perfect bait for me to pull out "TERF" opinions and get metaphorically clubbed to death by the rest of the thread.

>>6854835
Sorry but it seems I'm too dumb indeed. I don't know what you mean. As I said, I believe men and women mostly get insulted from being called a woman/man because of sexist beliefs such as women being groomed to believe that being conventionally sexually attractive for men's pleasure is important, and men being taught that being female and/or feminine is lowly and shameful.

>>6854936
>>6855041
Off-topic: really great non-sexist games I've enjoyed recently: Undertale, and Assassin's Creed: Syndicate. Feminist Frequency can probably hook you up on more. Maybe that new game by Blizzard whose name I forgot.

Also Pokémon Go lel.

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>>6846401

>holding in desire to call her Harambe

I woke up my family with my laughing, thanks a lot

>>6854784
>>6855309
I feel like I'm being baited but it is because you very strongly consider yourself to be one thing and are perceived as another and that hurts very badly when it happens constantly.

>>6843574

Why would a superior call you sir anyway?

>>6846401
>be a pizza delivery guy
>deliver pizza
>tell customer to enjoy his pizza
>customer says "you too"
>dis muthafucka fat shaming me

The moral of the story is it might have been an innocent slip of the tongue. Even if she genuinely saw you as a man, she made the effort to correct herself, so accentuate the positive.

>>6854784

You're fucking deluded if you think the average cis man wouldn't feel insecure at being genuinely perceived as a woman, or vice versa for the average cis woman.

>>6854837

We're not talking about why people transition, we're talking about why people dislike being misgendered, which does have a fair amount to do with gender roles.

>>6855309
>That doesn't seem to reflect the amount of insult/injury trans people claim to feel when being misgendered.
Being trans is hard. Coming to terms with that, braving the process of physically transitioning, hoping people accept you, etc. So yeah, when this thing that took a lot of balls to do is regularly misperceived, it gets grating.

>(Or is /lgbt/ not the kind who goes "misgendering is literal violence"?)
No, we're not. It's still annoying. And that doesn't mean it's anyone's fault either, it just sucks to know you're still genuinely being perceived as your birth sex after all you've gone through to move away from that.
Hell, in some ways it's easier when someone's misgendering you just to be a cunt, because if they'd say the same thing no matter how well you were passing then you can potentially disregard it. But if someone who has no desire to cause conflict with you genuinely just perceives you as your birth sex after all you've gone through, it feels like you're stuck at square one and it might be hopeless.

Imagine if you had depression, and you spent months in therapy trying different medications, going through all these terrible side effects trying to find the one that'll make your life easier, until finally you seem to find it and think you can put this problem on the backburner now and live.
But despite it all, people still treat you like you're sick - not bothering to invite you out because they assume you won't come, giving you humouring nods when you talk about your goals because they don't believe you have it in you, dismissing any genuine expression of negativity as 'just the depression talking', etc. That shit's gonna bring you down and get annoying as fuck.
Or when disabled people receive pity in spite of all they've done to make their lives fruitful, having people nonetheless treat them as if their lives ended long ago, fuck that.

It's not a perfect analogy, but it's the same kinda shit, it just invalidates your efforts.

>>6855309
>Feminist Frequency
bait confirmed

>>6863041
I honestly feel like the disability metaphor is really apt. I was born with a developmental disability, and honestly my efforts moving past that have paralleled my transition in a lot of ways. And trust me, after years of working to address my deficits, to work around the things that I cant do, to train myself relentlessly so that I can pass in almost every situation as someone who is not only not disabled, but above average, to have someone disregard all that and say something like "oh, should we put you in a *special needs* program" or something like that, it just feels crushing. Like all my work and effort was for nothing.

Being misgendered triggers similar feelings, in addition to the medical condition of gender dysphoria, which means (at least in my case) that my brain and general self experiences extreme duress at being perceived as male (including by myself) . Trying to explain what gender dysphoria itself feels like to someone that doesnt have it is extremely difficult, but the other ""violent"" crushing feeling that comes with being misgendered should be able to be understood.

>>6854837
I listed symptoms of a cause, just because you didn't want to play with stuff all the girls do doesn't mean you're less of a woman, don't be so insecure. The cause is obviously brain gender mismatch due to very complex biological processes not working the way they should. Nature isn't perfect, we shouldn't expect it to be. Now stop yelling at me. >:l

>>6855309
>I don't believe in female and male brains.
Oh, well scientific evidence doesn't care what you believe lol. What a troll

>>6863003
I ordered a salad and a pizza from a restaurant one time, and the delivery guy said for you (handing me the salad), and for your boyfriend (hands me the pizza). What did that mean?

>>6854936

No they're not. Gaming is unisex unles you're playing something like Fifa or COD.

>>6863624

How'd he know he was your boyfriend?

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>ordering a coffee
>"Can I get your name?"
>gives them my male name
>they just look at me in confusion

lol i can't even afford hrt

should i just end my life

>>6863897
COD is a total fag game

>>6863897
>How'd he know he was your boyfriend?

No idea. I was alone at the time.

>>6854653
family shitlords used to always tell me this to make me feel bad
they even said stuff like "if you grow your hair out you'll start to go bald. hey anon I found a bald spot!"
and when they caught me wearing makeup they told me I looked like a monster.
Don't believe them their lies annonette

>>6864234
>Trying to be nice to MtF at work.
>We get along pretty well due to some shared interests such as magical girl anime and T.Swift
>Accidentally forget myself and say "thanks man"
FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK.

>Its not that I don't see her as a woman
>I literally don't talk to women so all of my pronouns naturally drift towards guy/dude/man etc

What are some casual female pronouns to use without sounding too camp. I don't want to start using "you go girl" type phrases, it sounds patronising and weird.

>>6854751
Fuck that shit, being called female pronouns pisses me off and makes me feel disgusting, tits give me dysphoria, all sorts of other shit.

Nice passive-aggressiveness though you t-raging jealous hon.

>>6866011
You should transition to show her that you didn't mean it like that.

>>6854030
That's super adorable, Anon

>>6846577
>not being 4trans
>pronouns aren't f a m/anon/OP

c:\>smhtbqhfam.bat

>>6866060
This

>>6866011
You could just use "buddy" or "mate."

I read that in Marcie's voice.

>>6868491
Don't do this. "Buddy" is weird and will not be a positive thing. Unless you're legitimately that old that it'd be part of your speech.

>>6868491
Buddy is like legit offensive in my regional culture, like the non-racial version of calling someone "boy"

>>6866011
It's probably not a big deal. These days "man" and "dude" are pretty gender neutral when used as filler words. If she's not oversensitive and if you treat her like you would any other girl, then you should be fine.

>>6869543
I call this girl I'm friends with "dude" and she calls me "girlfriend"

I'm a cis guy, though

>>6868511
Who the h*ck is Marcie

>>6863624

...Are you actually confused about this? Assuming your a woman or at least a petite faggot, he was playing on the stereotype that men order substantial/fatty foods and women order salads.

>>6866011

Calling someone 'man' is like calling them 'senpai' or 'mate', it means nothing. Any girl, trans or cis, who'd get offended at that as if you're literally calling them a man probably needs to grow thicker skin.

>>6873724
H-he thought I was a girl? I just have a hard time believing that I may actually pass (at least temporarily) in some situations. I had given up hoping for that, so I haven't even entertained the thought, even when people seem confused when I introduce myself, or store clerks do the ambiguous "ma'am/man" thing.

>>6873960
Or when guys hold doors open for me when I'm a little too far away for it to be normal politeness.

>>6854784
Partly: trans people hate being their birth sex, so being perceived that way by others demonstrates how wrong their body is.

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:(

>>6843676
Senpai

>>6845484
Ma'am and man are the same lip movement

>>6881141
not really, one uses the tongue, the other uses the lips.

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>work in very liberal town at a VERY pc workplace
>constantly paranoid I'll "misgender" someone and lose my job
I fucking hate you people

>>6881392
if you leave off the last phoneme which is a pretty common thing to do, you wouldn't be able to tell the difference

>>6845013
>i look like a tranny
>it's all you god damn trannies faults that people think im a tranny!

>>6845013
>>6845435
Are you sure they're not doing it out of spite? It used to be all the rage to use female pronouns with gay men because they're not "real men".
My dad does that kind of shit all the time.

>>6874410
As you walk through the door, say "thanks" in a deep man voice.

>>6881407
how can you seriously read this thread and come to the conclusion that even one of these people would come close to correcting you for """misgendering""" them, much less calling you out publicly, god forbid making a big fucking deal out of it and going through the effort of talking to management about it. get over yourself.

>>6883826
my daddy does that too teehee

>be unpassing mtf in boymode
>no one calls me sir or ma'am, boy or girl
>only (you)s, plain you and formal you

feels good living in a culture where sirring is not done with a language which doesn't have she / he

but still unpassing so fuck