Do FTMs suffer from fragile masculinity?

Yep. I've met a couple who go full douchebro.

Some do. But what's your beef with ftms anyway

>>6822796
Preeeetty sure that was more of a question than a gripe.

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>>6822796
It starts with this. Women have a personal obligation to maintain masculinity as form of protection/catering unto themselves. They constructed the view that a feminized male is inferior/due to the fact that that male no longer "serviced" them in the the traditional sense. Their most genius move was convincing men that the feminized man was a threat to their masculinity/sexuality, rather than the threat to a woman's that they perceived. This is the reason for the extremely violence towards homosexuality and transexuality, particularly towards transwomen.

FTMs (cis women) take advantage of the fact that guys are more open-minded about assimilating different aspects into the idea of masculinity and use this to insert themselves as a source of corruption to try to force ultra-masc clichés and stereotypes onto cis men. This is why you see so many FTMs trying to talk to men about weightlifting, sports, fighting and other activities that are meant to maintain the male role as the brutish, thoughtless imbecile. By keeping the narrative in line, they seek to keep the male in line.

The form of deception (women taking on the role of a 'male' who supposedly provides insight into gender) is about women taking total control over the masculinity they deem essential to their """""survival"""". There are no true FTMs like there are MTFs.

>>6823008
But if MTFs are true, they should be doing the same thing

>>6823044
I meant true as in legitimately experiencing gender dysphoria. FTMs don't have that.

>>6823050
Why not?

>>6823086
Because how could you have gender dysphoria if you're already a girl?

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>>6823050

>>6823008
all I can understand from this is
>waaah I am in bad physical shape

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>>6823008

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>>6823146
Can't say as I'm shocked that a FTM went for a physical insult rather than something intellectual. These scariest thing for a cis woman to see is an individual thinker -- especially a male one. Womanhood is comprised of contorting other men and women to act as their own mind. When they're confronted with a non-conforming male or woman, it's incomprehensible to them and frightening.

>>6823197
numale identified

>>6822763
Why does she look so much like a femboy?

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>>6823207
You're literally advocating against the idea of not being a submissive bitchboy. I think you know what that makes you.

>>6823211
she is the male and female idea. the perfect delicate balance (so is andrej)

>>6823230
*ideal

>>6822837
Nah it's not this poster's first time making me wonder.
>>6823008
Wow dude that's almost paranoid. The obvious conclusion is that ftms have the same "thing" as mtfs but in reverse. It's weird to imagine your construction as more likely than trans men just existing like a normal anomaly and another non-ideological, nonconspiratorial thing in the world.

But I've seen you around and you have this deeply stubborn worldview, and you keep it in a way that's extremely defensive. Though the first time I saw you I think mtfg made a meta thread calling you a chaser? But you're totally not, as you kept asserting. Could be true, but the more important takeaway is that I don't think you're entirely sane, though let's hope it's mostly your worst impulses and a little dishonesty.

>>6823008
I'm with you on this, but I think women do it subconsciously. They're programmed to feel an attraction to masculinity but at the same time they can step back and look down on negative aspects of it in an academic way while still admiring them subconsciously. It's kinda how your feminist or LUG will go ga-ga over a tall, fit man. "fragile masculinity" is something no one really believes, it's just recreational talk.

Women DO propagate masculinity for their own benefit, but it's more of a subconscious cooperation than a sinister manipulation. Males are a more disposible organism based off how it takes only one to impregnate dozens of females. It's just the way men are made, and it's not anyone's fault that they are essentially a lifeform of lesser value in the grand scheme of things. So it's easy to hate women because of how they're programmed, but you really shouldn't.

>>6823239
Link to the thread? Yes, I've made chaser threads before b/c I'm mostly just attracted to transwomen/androgynous people.

>>6823245
I find it funny how ultra-masculinity (although I don't like it) is discussed as some sort of ultimately weak and fragile trait and that men as inherently disposeable "lesser" version of women (a lá the 'satire' text SCUM Manifesto) when the exact thing that you mentioned makes men of more physical and mental worth than any female, due to their virility, and the sheer power of their physical and mental prowess and capability.

However, the supposed thing that makes the female valuable, the fact that she can only deliver a tiny amount of children before her body fails, exposes the frailty, weakness and disposability of women.

But, regardless of scientific truth, they way that males are discussed as inherently weak due to women discussing them as existing to cater to them -- a weaker lifeform -- and that this allegedly puts that weak lifeform on a pedestal when in reality they have little to offer.

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>>6823297
>>6823239
also where did I mention that I was not into transpeople? i just have an adverse affect toward FTM behavior and ideology

>>6823230
>>6822763

>perfect delicate balance (so is andrej)
Perfect agreement on this, but you're wrong on a lot of >>6823008

It's true that women play a huge role in policing male gender roles and they're the main player in promoting homophobia and transphobia and convincing their husbands and other men to kill any male who goes too far in seeming feminine.

It's true you can look all over the net and you'll see its full of women, both Christian and Radfem doing everything they can to say that if you don't kill all the faggots they'll come after your kids, but it isn't Ftm doing that.

Ftm aren't the same thing as women and I can't really imagine them joining the same hate filled crusade against lgbt that a lot of women lead.

And coming from femgen, I'd say the FtM are probably the raisers out of all the groups to get along with and they more than men tend to have androgynous interests and personalities so your argument is dead wrong on them.

>>6823104
Gender dysphoria is not just "wanting to be a girl".

>>6823356
>raisers out of all the groups to get along with and they more than men tend
easiest and act more andro than than average men, phone typing doesn't work

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>>6823008
If you actually went outside instead of chugging your gender wars kool-aid and posting trash on a taiwanese neo-impressionist fingerpainting forum, you'd find there is no grand conspiracy among FtMs to keep the cis man down.

>some shit about weightlifting/sports/whatever to maintain the narrative
If I'm on testosterone and wanting to make the most of its effects, I'm going to seek the advice of men who lift weights or are otherwise getting exercise, not talk to some tumblr bitch who never so much as looked at a dumbbell in her lifetime.

>>6824307
>no grand conspiracy among FtMs to keep the cis man down
Well yeah, I don't get the blaming FtM for what women have done when they aren't women.

That doesn't mean that women's groups haven't been instrumental in making homophobia and bashing resurgent with their kill them or they'll rape your kids argument. Nobody would listen to some old man saying that but the public goes into a frenzy by whatever women warn about.

Do whatever you want, just don't put other males down for being effeminate.

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>>6823356
Most of the FTMs I've seen on here only adopt a "gentle" approach if they're trying to posture as that type of """cool""" guy cliché.

FTM's only allegiance to men comes in the form of an allegiance to media-fed version of what they believe is "The Cool Male". Anything that steps outside of this "cool" definition is immediately met with hostility by the FTM, who believes that their gender ideals are the definitive ones. The FTM's worldview is based in a society of female gratification. When someone no longer conforms themselves to the woman's sensibilities and no longer serves their delusions.

In a sense FTM's reactions to men challenging their behavior are similar to fragile masculinity in cis males, but that at least has to do more with those men viewing their masculinity as something they have to maintain, rather than something that is created out of the toxic porn-fed view of what is a male is that FTMs gave.

More often than not I see FTMs obsessing over ultra-masc activities, making the arguments that men's actions are supposed by dictated by impulsive violence, and generally purporting the stereotype that males are supposed to welcome and embrace anti-intellectuality and laziness.


case in point here>>6824307 a woman dopes up on T for fetishtic purposes and chastises men for speaking out of place. shocking, I know. Notice the attempt to create a male heirarchy by calling me a bitch? Awesome one, sister.

>>6824398
Are you deliberately trying to talk like a radfem?

Is this part of some plan to put the shoe on the other foot or something?

You aren't right about FtM, most of them are chil and act pretty andro

>>6824398
>be ftm
>into cosmetology
>dyed hair
>dress like a gay emo
>have gay lisp
>wear jewelry
>only masc thing about me is that i weight lift so my dysphoria isnt crippling
ur spot on m8 8/8

>>6824398
>something something fetishism
clue me in on what fetish(es) an asexual FtM would have

>Notice the attempt to create a male heirarchy by calling me a bitch?
>implying the second half of my post had anything to do with you
All I said about you is that you spew stupid shit on an anonymous imageboard. The latter half is a lengthier 'well who would be more relevant to talk with about fitness'. Way to have zero reading comprehension and ALL the mental illness. :^)

>>6824498
>>have gay lisp
I don't like lisps

>>6823008
>FTMs (cis women)
i don't think you know what that word means

>>6824519
i didnt ask

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>>6824493
this is like beginner's level gender critique baby, don't get worried. get used to it.
>>6824498
These would be cool and great if you were a cis male, but it makes you sound like a transtrender. It'd be like seeing a transgirl with unshaved legs and kneesocks.
>>6824509
Women don't have sexuality so maybe I shouldn't have used the word fetish. But, maybe you can get it if you try. Just give it a minute.

>>6824570
>love my deep voice
>love my musclar body
>love my flat chest
>love my body hair
>love my masculine facial features
>want a peen
>love stabbing a needle in my thigh every week for T

wot

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>>6824602
>case in point
>case in point
>case in point
etc. etc.

>>6824570
>gender critique
It's nonsense and fearmongering when Radfems use it, just another way to Promote homophobia against makes and vilify them for not fitting in

You might have started from true premises but you're still wrong in the end.

At least focus on something factual like the sky high abuse rates in lesbians and their vastly elevated crime rates

>>6826788
How. I still dont subscribe to normal masculinity I just do whatever I want.

>>6823050

i mean as a tranny i can tell you i do suffer from gender dysphoria. not sure how it's bloody fetishism or whatever you were on about, but what you're saying is kinda nonsensical. how is it only a tranny if its a fag who wants to be a girl?

and might i add, i don't try and talk with men about stereotypically male things just to further prove myself, i just talk about shit im interested in. like politics or things going on in the world. im not going to shove things onto myself just to seem more manly or whatever the fuck else you were on about. i like intellectually stimulating things and im not going to dumb myself down or "make the arguments that men's actions are supposedly* dictated by impulsive violence, and generally purporting the stereotype that males are supposed to welcome and embrace anti-intellectuality and laziness." im a lazy ass, sure. always have been. but not once have i pushed the idea that men aren't intellectual or that they're all lazy.

i think cara anon saw one-three people do something and decided it was all of a group that was the issue. kinda like hitler and jew art school. just dont go killing trannies.

>>6824398
Gender dysphoria makes you touchier about being regarded as the gender you identify as- which is why trannies often flock to stereotypical activities, seeing how they are "save" and won't get them misgendering comments and raised eyebrows. In my experience, the better they pass, the more open they are about doing what the fuck ever. This goes for mtfs and ftms alike.

>>6823104
wtf do you think dysphoria is?

>>6822763
>implying "fragile masculinity" is a thing
>implying it isn't just another bullshit gendered term they made up to feel righteous when they hate men

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>>6830792
basically this, the MtFs who pass don't need to overcompensate with extreme stereotypical femininity, there's a reason of why unpassable hons wear always dressers of a lot of (bad) make-up meanwhile more young MtFs can be more masculine and being gendered correctlym and a lot of MtF begging the transition bein ultr-feminine but with the time end being more tomboys.

>>6823104
wtf

ITT: mtfs mansplain

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>>6833584
>Transman calls someone out on mansplaining
that's classic

>>6824398
>who believes that their gender ideals are the definitive ones
Sounds like you're talking about yourself tbqhon :^)

>>6833584
Op isn't a mtf you hypocritical idiot

And it's amazing how you throw a tantrum and start balaming everyone the moment your rhetoric is turned on you.

>>6822763
Yes, as do butch lesbians and bulldykes. That's why they compensate with black t-shirts, flannel shirts, baggy jeans, Timberland or combat boots, skater sneakers, only the most bouish of haircuts and of course an overbearing and overcompensating brash and "masculine" personality and demeanor.

Any random guy reading a book in a park would be more effortlessly and authentically masculine than these unfortunate people, but such is life. They are condemmned to being insecure, never being recognozed as men or masculine, and always performing a stage act of toughness.

>>6831850
Yes, that's the reason Bruce Jenner goes for designer dresses and was on an unfortunate Vanity Fair cover where his hands and feet had to be kept out of the picture; and let's not talk about all the airbrushing and photoshop needed to feminize his face, well beyond the surgery.

If bulkdykes, butch lesbians and FtMs were secure in their precious masculinity, they wouldn't need to become crude caricatures of rebelling teenagers. It always looks forced, but at the same time is ignored and dismissed by individuals in society, which is despairing and crippling to them. Only "real" masculinity is taken seriously, just as only "hot" women are lusted after.

Clothing becomes SO important, like the only thing that allows them to "feel" masculine, that is to Live Action Roleplay as men.

>>6822763
Yes

>>6836709
>Op isn't a mtf
No he's a repressed bitter hon who hates women obviously

>>6838713
Pointing out a group's predatory behavior was never hate. You simply can't stand to be scrutinized by your own standards.

Really, he posted this http://archive.loveisover.me/lgbt/thread/6772273/ why should you be an exception to your laws.

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FTM community is one of the worst communities I've ever seen. "you don't believe in 99 genders? why don't you fuck off, transphobe"

>>6839116
the ftm community got hijacked by transtrenders and kicked out all the actual ftms

Stop responding to the bait you fucking idiots why are you all trying to debate with this retard

>>6839347
Yeh you're right. If people, thinking of FTM, imagine a girl in makeup and wild colored hair behaving and feeling completely like a woman then something is wrong