What do you guys think of the popular TERF concept of male socialization/female

>>6813469
I think that in general socialization accounts for more of our personality differences than basic genetic factors. If you look at the development of identity in children, a clear pattern of sex recognition, internalization and eventual segregation is evident. It's impossible to not have this effect because even if you have a gender neutral home environment, all of the corresponding social rules will be learned once the child is exposed to larger groups and the media.

If we consider that neurological dimorphism is the only criteria for gender identity, most people would effectively be 'non-binary' since they would have a mix of masculine and feminine features, with few people actually tending to the extreme ends of the spectrum.

I hope that in the future we don't have a concept of gender or unequal treatment based on percieved personality

>>6813507
There'd still be people who would still feel dysphoria over their physical sex even if socialization and gender roles didn't exist. Believe me all the videogame playing, STEM field career, rude talking trannies in /mtfg/ aren't transitioning because their interests are stereotypically feminine.

>>6813655
I never said that dysphoria will be eliminated

I'm sure that trans people will naturally exist regardless, they just won't be concerned with conforming to roles or fretting over their validity

>>6813507
>If we consider that neurological dimorphism is the only criteria for gender identity, most people would effectively be 'non-binary' since they would have a mix of masculine and feminine features, with few people actually tending to the extreme ends of the spectrum.
Except not.
I'm pretty sure you'd find pretty much everyone to be on one side or the other... You know, how despite genital development being a spectrum, the majority is on one or the other side.

>>6813469
>>6813507
If it's such a powerful thing then why are lesbians so much more crime prone and violent than many men despite female socialization?
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/27056045/
https://mainweb-v.musc.edu/vawprevention/lesbianrx/factsheet.shtml

File: 1469876617075.png (78KB, 354x261px) Image search: [Google]

78KB, 354x261px

Socialization accounts for a lot, but there is no single "male socialization" and "female socialization". Also consider how some kids can be super resistant to socialization.

Different families/regions/nations have different views on how a man and woman should act, and individuals often respond differently to the socialization.

I'm trans, but my male socialization was weak. Transitioned in HS, was resistant to behaving male before that, and so on. This is pretty common among younger trans girls. I won't deny that older trans women can blatantly display their male socialization, but even that isn't absolute.

>>6813713
That's not true

First off, there isn't really a 'one side or other'. Brain dimorphism is characterized by differences in neuron amount/density which is always a continous value. All we have in terms of categorization is 'average male' and 'average female' brains, based on a combination of various measurements. When people are put under scans and actually evaluated over those specific areas, it is evident that mostly everyone has a mix of both 'male' and 'female' brain characteristics (differing densities in specific areas).
http://www.pnas.org/content/112/50/15468.abstract

There are only a few structures in the brain which show significant differences, and those are things which are responsible for sexual behavior such as the SDN in the hypothalamus. Most structures that correspond to personality and ability have much more variance, with a significant amount of overlap between males and females.

>>6813737
First off you need to be able to define much more. The effect size might not be as significant as you put it. Your link actually claims they have significantly higher rates of non-violent delinquency.

You're probably trying to point out that brain masculinization plays a part, and I would definitely agree with you. They tend to have somewhat higher testosterone so that would correspond to more aggression, but I think it's unlikely that is the only explanation.

From more recent research on heterosexuals, we know that females tend to perpetuate a lot of domestic abuse too, just less often using violence because they stand no chance against their male partner. In the case of two females, the use of violence could be much more prevalent simply because it is effective for them to use.
Another thing to consider is their economic status, since 2 women are more likely to live in poverty than 2 men they are more likely to engage in crime. Also, growing up homosexual can correspond to a rejection of enforced gender expectations, so they could be acting out

Women, specifically feminists, will preform any form of mental gymnastics to legitimize their hatred of men, you know, the people who shelter them, feed them, protect them, and basically put women's lived before them. It is important to rationalize hatred of second class citizens so you can maintain order and keep them in their place.

>>6813811
They also have a statistically significant increase in violence, much higher rate than gay males.

And the second link claims they're about as violent as straight men.

Surely if socialisation were as significant as you say, they'd be much closer to other females.

>>6813811
>we know that females tend to perpetuate a lot of domestic abuse too
>just less often using violence because they stand no chance against their male partner.

Actually women are significantly more likely than men to use violence. The issue is women are much less likely to be able to physically harm men. IE a women hitting a man at full straight may not cause damage, or more likely cause enough damage that the man will seek help. We see the damage women do when we look at children and the elderly, which women are much more likely to abuse and kill.

>>6813469
I think it exists. I also think that it barely affects young transitioners, while it affects older transitioners a lot. Someone who transitioned before entering the workforce, whether they transitioned at 14 as a kid or 20 while in college, will never know that it is like to be anything but a woman in the workplace, and all the sexism that goes with that. Yes, there is male socialization in the school years, but I would argue that it's orders of magnitude less significant than someone who has risen to the top of the career ladder with full male privledge and then transition after retiring.