Why do there seem to be far more male-to-female trans people

You're on 4chan and ftms are on tumblr.
Also trans men transition then move on with their lives once they pass, because they pass.

>>6656694
And trans men are far less controversial than MtFs.

>>6656664
Because men are more prone to mental disorders and fetishisms.

>>6656694

Why is it so easier for FTM to pass than MTF. Is it because male gender standards are way broader?

>>6656784
The same reason it's so hard for MTFs to pass

>>6656789

And what reason is that fuck boy?

Assume I have no clue how your tranny magic works.

Because no sane woman would willingly give up living life on easy mode.

A lot of guys transition simply because they are beta and prison gay and want to feel desired. Women don't need this as they by default are the desirable gender.

The "you just don't see them because they blend in so well!" shit is complete bull. They simply just don't exist, and the few that do are usually just teenage girls that never actually end up transitioning.

>>6656827
Testosterone is incredibly strong and effective, retard.

>>6656827
Stupid and an ass, not a good combo tbqh

>>6656664
Ftm aren't attention whores

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>>6656835

>Even male hormones shit all over female ones

All is right in the world senpai

>>6656784
Because testosterone is a hell of a drug, and estrogen just isn't.

>>6656833
*tips fedora*

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>>6657098

>>6657210
*posts angry atheist*

>>6656664
People assigned female at birth have more freedom of their gender expression than people assigned male do. A woman can be masculine and not have the fear of overwhelmimg stigma and violence that a man would for being feminine. This is because females are considered inherently valuable due to their ability to bear and rear children. People also have a twisted and paternalistic view of the female as some angelic and pure creature, incapable of malice or deviancy like the expendable and loathsome male. So naturally, less women feel the need to transition to men. Unless they have legitimate dysphoria about their biological sex, they just live as butch lesbians, "non-binaries", "genderqueers" or whatever snowflake term they prefer because they have that luxury.

Males do not have this luxury. If a male is weak, submissive or feminine, he is reduced to the status of a subhuman. Violence and stigma against him is considered warranted because he hasn't "manned up". Both males and females perpetuate this harmful attitude. Males also do not have the freedom of sexual expression that females do. For example, a heterosexual man who is feminine and submissive in bed would have incentive to transition into a woman because his sexuality would make him completely undesirable to the average heterosexual woman. The stigma against his sexuality can be so intense that it'll give him bodily dysphoria over his sex traits. Males learn from a very young age that what people see greatly affects how they treat you and many who do not fit what society expects from a male come to the conclusion that their lives would be more comfortable living as a trans woman instead of an effeminate cis male.

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>>6657219

>>6657220
So, the answer is for dudes to stop being pussys and live as gender queer if that's what they want?

>>6656833
4chan flavoured misandry is the weirdest fucking thing.

>>6657230
*posts girlwriteswhat*

>>6657220
This.

>>6657220
/thread

>>6657235
While I agree with what he said a lot of these "feminine males" would benefit from just being female anyway just like the gender queer females would. So it's not necessarily a bad thing that they are pushed into transition.

>>6657254
Yeah, much better to live a lie because your scared and blame women and be bitter about it when the real 'problem', according to you, is men.

>>6656833
This. Op the answer is always the most obvious and less politically correct one

I think a good percentage of so called mtfs are actually just insane

>>6657265
What? It's not a lie if you enjoy it. That anon was right that I was forced out of transition by endless pressure to man up that a woman wouldn't have gotten but once I started transition I never felt better so it was a good idea all along.

>>6657278
*forced out of repression

>>6657281
So stop bitching about how women have life in easy mode and start shitting in the institutions that make you feel like shit. (And stand up to them, rather than be a pussy and transition)

>>6656784
Among other things, the default human in our cultural understanding of gender is a man. It takes very few male cues to positively identify someone as a man, and several female cues to fully contradict any one. Consequently, where a trans man needs only a few male cues added to their appearance to be consistently gendered male, a trans woman must reduce/eliminate most male cues and acquire many female cues to be consistently gendered female.

Combine this with the disparity in visibility of features granted by transmasculine HRT vs transfeminine HRT, and it's not surprising that trans women are going to faced more trouble "passing".

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>>6657237
Women are biologically more valuable than men. This is an objective fact. Men are biologically designed to be disposable. This is an objective fact.

You can see the culture and moral implications of these facts in how society treats both men and women and how they treat themselves.

Women makeup 1/4th of the homeless population and yet have 3 times the amount of homeless shelters. Women have significantly different sentences for the same crimes of man.

None of these things are inherently wrong or unethical. There's a lot of evolutionary and national benefit to the natural desire to treat women as more valuable than men. But ignoring that this inherent difference between the genders exists is just ignorant and stupid.

>>6657298
I love how having 'more shelters' is a benefit, without considering why these separate shelters might need to exist.

>>6657287
>So stop bitching about how women have life in easy mode
Nigger I never did this, why are you putting words in my mouth
> be a pussy and transition
What part of "I am happy being a woman" don't you get?

>>6657302
Why would women having separate shelters mean they have more? Are you fucking retarded?

>>6657304
Im keeping up with the flow of the entire post not just you, dear. Sorry.

>>6657306
He literally SAID more, are you retarded?

>>6657298
>more valuable means put on a pedestal
no it means subjugated and controlled

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>>6657265
>your

>>6657320
>autism

>>6657315
You said that the reason they have more shelters than men is because we need separate shelters for women?

Why would men and women needing separate shelters mean that women have 3 times the amount of shelters that men have despite being only a faction of the homeless population?

You're a fucking idiot.

>>6657330
Because they would just be shelters and couldn't be counted as women having 'more' unless men couldn't also have them. Can you count?

>>6657325
It's 4chan. If you can't make peace with that you're rarely not interacting with at least a few ASD people in discussion threads, you're going to have a rough time of it.

>>6657335
Women aren't accepted into mens homeless shelters you fucking idiot, they are not counted in the number of accessible shelters.

>>6657343
Men can go to a general shelter, women generally cannot. Men can go to men's shelters, women can't.
There's your difference.

>>6657298
>>6656833
Sure is MRA in here.

>>6657345
General shelters are virtually non-existent anymore and are statistically irrelevant.

>>6657352
MRA's think these inequalities need to be changed or fixed. I accept and embrace them as mutually beneficial for society. Posting exactly what you just responded to I've been called both a radical feminist and an MRA.

>>6657352
people who don't know women making judgements about women because they saw guys buy young attractive women drinks once.

>>6657354
women are more vulnerable out on the streets generally because of men's behaviour.

>>6657362
>women are more vulnerable out on the streets generally because of men's behaviour.

Yes. I think women having more shelters than men is completely justifiable and good.

>>6656664
imo, there have historically been a lot more subcultures for women to deal with gender dysphoria (eg butchness), probably out of necessity because of how entrapping womanhood has been in comparison to manhood. a female-assigned with gender discomfort might find a comfortable way to live within womanhood, but there aren't really analagous men's cultures (even effeminate gay men cultures aren't really feminine, they're cosmetized-masculine)

>>6657316
Like it can't be both?

>>6656784
you can slap a beard on anything and it looks like a man

>>6657220
I have nothing to add, just thought I'd say this sums my (mtf) thoughts up perfectly.

>>6657574
could be but isn't for any women but those that are young and attractive.

>>6657235
Not necessarily. Just look at the femboy threads. The need to alter the body to fit their preferences and personality will likely always be there because feminine androgynous looks are still more accepted than a bearded muscle man in a dress. That isn't gonna change for a very long time. Its unreasonable to expect people who are often submissive, physically weak and timid with no social safety net to challenge long standing and deeply entrenched social norms. Normalizing feminine behavior in males without any changes to the body would require a certain celebration of the mix of unaltered physical masculinity and feminine style and aesthetics. See how fun it'd be to get a movement going for that. Look at how angry and uncomfortable people get when they see a man in a dress. Look at how they immediately assume that man to be a sexual deviant or predator. Look at how quick prudish second wave feminists will demonize them for "perpetuating stereotypes" and parodying womanhood.

Women will always have it better than men in this regard because biologically they are considered more valuable and people put a disproportionate amount of effort into protecting their comfort and safety. This is an inherently unfair, harmful and unethical double standard but its unlikely to change in our lifetime. A male oriented analogue to feminism will never catch on and change this because both traditional society and misandrist feminists will undermine and attack it at every turn.

>>6658224
I don't see it that way. I think men are just more assblasted about possibly being seen as gay, or really the root of it is being assblasted about being seen as feminine. They see other men being feminine, being lesser than the masculine they are, take offense to it, and take it out violently.
I don't think it has anything with the 'value' of women at all, when masculinity is so highly prized.

>>6658224
Or maybe femboys simply hate the effects of a poison known as testosterone on their body.

>>6658234
Except femininity is highly prized. More so than masculinity because girls in western society are allowed to be masculine. Femininity is often conflated with being female and is therefore considered sacred and exclusive to females. Feminine males are often seen as weeds in a garden of roses, a fox sneaking into the henhouse. Basically an imposter seeking to gain the privileges females have for their own ill intent. It's associated with deception, cowardice, sexual deviancy and weakness.

Take the bathroom panic for example. People are going nuts about the hypothetical rapist crossdressing to gain access to the women's room so he can do sexual misconduct in there. People are terrified that their precious women and daughters will be violated by the evil transsexual menace. On the other hand, no one cares about a woman or trans man using the women's restroom because no one cares about a man's safety. Women go in there all the time when their lines are backed up. After all, men are all strong and hardy creatures that need no protection because they're both inherent oppressors and otherwise expendable to society.

>>6656694
>pass
>exist as short dickless manlet with girl hands

>>6656664
No clue but you might want to know that the trend is not universal - in japan it's about 50/50 while in poland about 1 in 3 or 4 trannies are FtM - though the numbers keep getting more even every year and the ratio has been steadily falling for quite a while (link to the oldest statistic i found http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3265612 - it's almost 6 FtMs per 1 MtF - quite a big difference)


It's probably just a mix of knowledge about/availability of transition and gender roles (in most of the world it's easier to live as butch dyke than a feminine man - so MtFs have less of an alternative to transition since staying in the closet requires more effort on their part than it does for FtMs) - although there could also be some biological factors in play that aren't in play in those 2 nationalities - god knows we barely know anything gender dysphoria in general

>>6658530
>being stronger, faster, and smarter is a poison

lol

>>6659308
Enjoy having ape body and dying earlier.

>>6657220
ex-mtf but i agree with everything here

/thread

>>6658530
True. The anon you're replying to assumes most of us would be happy to be muscular dudes in dresses if only society didn't brainwash us into thinking we have to be petite and androgynous to wear them. I don't disagree with some of the points made, but a lot of us just really don't want to become lumberjacks. Like, good on you if you want to be that kind of guy and put bows in your beard and wear a maid outfit or whatever. But some of us enjoy being skinny faggots of indeterminate gender. I know I would be profoundly unhappy if I had no choice but to go full viking.

When I see this argument what I hear is:
>most men turn out masculine due to genetics/hormones
>therefore, because its natural, its good for men to appear masculine

Its an appeal to nature. We have the technology to alter our appearance through hormones, diet, exercise, surgery, etc. I don't see why we shouldn't take advantage of that if thats what we really want. You could every well say the same about all medicine. Its natural for us to go blind, get cancer, die from polio or be crippled by broken bones. But it doesn't mean that any of that is desirable. For me, being a feminine guy and being forced to become masculine would feel like having an illness. Thats how dysphoria works.

>>6658806
>More so than masculinity because girls in western society are allowed to be masculine.
Again, I DON'T see it that way. In the same example, you can argue that females are allowed to be masculine because it's actually upping their station, where a feminine man is forsaking his place in society. It's misplaced misogyny.

>otherwise expendable to society.
Mmmmm, no, bud. I think that has a lot more to do with the fact that men seem to think boys are un-rapeable, because they're the penetraters. Women are penetrated, and to add to it, are physically weaker than males. The average male isn't going to be weaker than the average female, that's why it's more of a danger.

>>6658806
Idk masculinity is definitely highly prized. Just look at fags. The gay male community is how straight dudes are if they wanted to fuck each other. Masculinity is positive, creative, etc. Femininity is passive, stagnant, etc. This is why women get away with being masculine. Its seen as elevating themselves above feminine behavior. Like, guys want women to perform femininity, but they also have more respect for women who have typically masculine interests.

I don't entirely agree with the anon you're responding to. Men are definitely seen as less valuable than women. Men are basically tools to be used for work and war. So the line of thought goes "If men die we can always make more, but we need women to make more men." If you look at it from an evolutionary standpoint it makes sense, but its definitely a primitive way of thinking. I think its an outmoded way of looking at the world.

>>6660196
>I don't entirely agree with the anon you're responding to. Men are definitely seen as less valuable than women.
I'm that anon, I assume. I don't disagree that men are seen as disposable, with him, I agree on that, but the way he's using that notion is out of whack, I just think.
In a 'women and children first' sort of way, yes, they're disposable. However, in day to day civilian interactions with each other, it's certainly 'masculinity' that's prized by males. And males are prized by society. As >>6657316 says, women are certainly 'prized', but less as a model to follow, and more as a resource to protect.

>>6659407
>he thinks taking estrogen is going to make him live longer

ahahah have fun with your failed kidneys and liver cancer when you're 40 retard

>>6657220
>For example, a heterosexual man who is feminine and submissive in bed would have incentive to transition into a woman because his sexuality would make him completely undesirable to the average heterosexual woman.
Fuck. I think this explains why I have been feeling the way I've felt lately. It's nice to see it put into words I guess.

>>6656664
because biology has a lot more chances to fuck up men than it does to fuck up women apparently.

>>6656779
This AND the fact that more men are valued as worthless on the sex/relationship market than women. And obviously sexual frustration plays a huge role in transitioning as well as being a loser in general.

>>6660375
This is me too. I'm (mostly) heterosexual, but I have a passive personality. I prefer egalitarian relationships. I also prefer being the receiver in bed. In fact, I don't really like PiV that much, and I kind of hate using my dick that way. But there are no women who are interested in men like me. At least no normal ones. I'm not looking for a kink relationship to satisfy masochistic tendencies, so "dommes" are out. The only normal women who are interested in a passive partner are lesbian or bi. It makes transition really tempting. I don't think I'm well suited to being a man and it bothers me that I'm expected to act like one and look like one.

The only other option I have is trying to expand my bisexuality into full on gay. I might be able to do that for a "pretty" guy, but they're so few and far between. And most of them only want manly men, not other feminine faggots. At this point I've pretty much given up hope of ever finding someone. I don't think I necessarily would be happier if I transitioned because I would probably be an ugly woman who gets shit for looking trans, and I doubt I'll ever find a man like me to make my bishounen hasubando. Pretty much fucked.

>>6660220
Masculinity is treated more like a prison or military if anything. It's a twisted code of conduct used by society for procreation, war and hard manual labor. Females are allowed to adopt some masculine traits because its seen as them stepping up to a higher challenge but a male adopting feminine traits will be seen as a weak coward fleeing from his inherent duty to society. This comes from traditional society valuing the female as a prized resource to be protected and considering the male as an expendable tool unless proven otherwise. Anyone assigned male at birth will be forced into the male role and be expected to perform to a strict high standard. This is partially why we have so many trans women seeking to escape from masculinity and even the very label of "male" with extremely drastic measures. Because as long as society sees them as physically male, they will always be forced into a caste that is miles lower than cis women and men.

>>6661874
Also wanted to say i mostly agree with you on your points aside from the notion that this kind of unfair treatment is "misplaced misogyny". Misogyny is defined as a hatred of women, as misandry is defined as a hatred of men. We already know that society has a certain value given to both sexes and that females are highly prized. What we're talking about here is sexism, not a hatred for women. After all, it would be paradoxical to think that misogyny would spur an overbearing husband and father into viciously assaulting a trans woman in a bathroom because he perceived her as a threat to his precious women.

>>6656664
generally people dont go out of their way to make their lives harder

>>6658950
you still wouldn't guess they were ftms
most of them don't even have a voice tell
passing doesn't require you to be attractive (although some ftms come out super hot for some reason) it just requires you to look convincingly like the gender