/hrtg/ HRT General 3.33 [You can (not) self-med]

>cyprofags

Enjoy your jaundice and tumors kek

Anyone here selfmedding from qhi.co.uk? Do you know if it's possible to order the meds to your local post office instead of your home address?

>>6564114
?spirofag
enjoy peeing yourself and heart palpitations

>gnrh agonistfags
enjoy being a rich kid :(

>>6564248
If you have a po box it shouldn't be a problem. But it probably depends on whether or not you pay for registered post etc. I know IHP has options in Australia to either be registered with tracking and require a signature on delivery, or no tracking with no signature. No tracking is cheaper

i want milk

>>6564248
I am and have been for a year. It's been working very well. I think that depends on your local mail service, not QHI, pretty sure they can ship everywhere.

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So there's about enough data collected to do some analysis. The data format is a total pain in the ass, though, so much to fix by hand, can't guarantee the percent are accurate.

Anyway, first some demographics.

Starting age froes from 15 to 37.

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There's a bunch of people just starting HRT.

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Lotsa white people.

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Spiro still most used AA.

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200 mg spiro seems pretty standard.

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As for cypro,there's that anon that take exactly 37.5 mg per day.

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And an anon taking 150mg of bicalutamide, why though ?

>>6566147
>100 mg cypro

jesus fuck wow

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A few taking 5 alpha reductase inhibitors.

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Estrogen has more variety.

N.O.S. = not otherwise specified = just writting estradiol

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Once again a clear majority for 4 mg progynova among those users.

Btw i'm saging, no ban plz

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Aggregating estrofem and estrace, for sublingual administration.

Now I would like to settle the age old question spiro vs cypro (vs others), but there's a few problem :

* What to use as outcome value ? The survey data is bit fucked up, because there are a lot of binary answer (eg less anxiety/more anxiety) which have lower power than graded scale (how much anxiety ? 1-5).

* Which variable to control for ? (Duration of use, starting age, meds, dosage, ...) Controlling for more of them gives a more accurate results, at the expense of statistical power. And with only 36 respondents, there's no much power to waste.

>>6566147
>100 mg
Is that really necessary? I take 10 mg and it blocks my T and LH just fine.

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>>6564114
>In contrast, the androgen antagonists, cyproterone acetate and 11-alpha-hydroxyprogesterone, and the dopamine agonist, bromocriptine, all inhibited the in vitro growth of meningioma cells
>cypro [...] inhibited the in vitro growth of meningioma cells
Were you saying, pham?

>>6566328
There are clinical reports of meningioma improving on cessation of cypro, though.

Any Europeans self-medicating here, have you had any trouble with customs when ordering inside the EU, from QHI etc. (presumably without a recipe)?

>>6566355

Are you from Spain?

>>6566335
Whatever. I wanted to die anyway.

>about 2 weeks worth of pills left
>no matter, QHI usually takes a week and a half max. here
>go to website
>staff holidays for the next week, not shipping any orders now until the 26th
p a n i c

>>6566688
Why do you not have a prescription?

>>6566692
because NHS GPs do not like giving bridging prescriptions even once you've been referred to a GIC. It's not part of the official treatment pathway.

>>6566166
That used to be the "low" dose in medical literature as recently as the early 2000s, and there are plenty of physicians who've had "a" trans patient who haven't updated their knowledge.

Many of the easily obtained and quickly searched for online resources still reference those standards. Also, some people really do need that much, but yeah... holy shit if so.

>>6566656
Nah, from Finland, just thought I'd ask and make sure before ordering anything

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>>6566093
>>6566100
>>6566113
>>6566123
>>6566133
>>6566147
>>6566178
>>6566185
>>6566195
This is all very interesting....

/hrtg/ is like a self-med endocrinologist kek

>>6565202
Do you think there might be a market for tranny milk? It would be nice to milk myself for profit.

So I'm new here and couldn't find anything in the OP. What are the perks of Bicalutamide?

>>6566688
What's you dosage ? It's probably possible to make it stretch a bit by splitting.

>>6524403
>>6524403
please please please

I NEED that $7 bica

>>6568950
>$7 bica
Seven dollars for how much?
I'm interested regardless.
Do they ship to the USA?

>>6568567
It doesn't cross the blood brain barrier, and so erections and sex drive are not reduced as much. However it doesn't reduce testosterone production and so you can't realy use it to bring your T levels into female range, it will just block the T from being used.

>>6566212
you could just use the outcome results and assign them either positive or negative values, like more depression +1, less depression -1, then sum them up or something, could sum to give each individual a outcome score and then see which drugs give the highest outcome scores.

As for controls just cut out all the non-white people lol

>>6566212
I'd vote for controlling for duration of use, but only when it comes to long-term things like breast size. Skin softness happens fairly quickly.

The libido question merges answers about libido and erections together, when you already have questions addressing both of those separately. So it might be better to add more answers to those two questions, and to take away the libido one.

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>>6569463
I did something along the line of that. Assign a score and plot fuction of starting age and duration of use (these are the controls, not non-white people lol)

Higher on the z-axis is better. Green is cyproterone, Blue is spironolactone.

There is a lack of data for cypro at high starting age and high duration.

Not sure what to make of the result.

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>>6569622
Ah this is exciting. We need more data.

I just gave myself my first IM shot, is the shot area supposed to be uncomfortable afterwards? It's not painful just sort of bothersome maybe?

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I also posted on Trans help but this seems the right place:

---------------
I have an appointment with a therapist but it will be like 3-4 months since i can get on meds

What can i do to stop the T acting in my body?

I'm planning to get on AA blockers. Idk, maybe spirolactone or something like that. But i don't know if i'll have problems during these 3 months.

How to stop puberty? Should i get on Spirolactone and work hard to don't kill myself during these 4 months?

>>6570516

I think there is supposed to be some discomfort if you inject in the thigh. Not sure about other places, but I think there's no pain for injecting in your butt.

>>6572587

Spironolactone or cyproterone, I recommend cyproterone. Though why not start estrogen as well if you're self-medding AAs?

Reposting in this thread

Background info:
21 MtF 5 months on HRT today
Taking oral estradiol valerate 4mg and spironolactone oral 200mg

Okay so I just got my blood test results back.
I'm having trouble reading this.

Testosterone, Serum
Abnormal
299
Flag L
Units: ng/dL

Free Testosterone (Direct)
Abnormal
7.9
Flag L
pg/mL

Estradiol
Abnormal
252.2
Flag H
Units: pg/mL

Are these levels good/normal for 5 months? I asked my endo and she said they're fine, that my T is cut in half and that's good, but I'm beginning to suspect that she has no idea what she's doing. She won't let me take Lupron (even though my parents are fine with me taking it and them paying for it) OR any other GnRH agonist because it's apparently not standard of care even though that's literally what my gender therapist recommended.

>>6572690
Testosterone not into female range (it's even almost in normal male range)

Estradiol is too high.

Did you get the test done just before your next dose ?

>>6572713
I did actually.
Did that throw it off?

>>6572690
Your endo is shit methinks :/

Your test is far too high, it's almost male levels. Man fuck all these endos doling out too little spiro. This shit is why I have to self med. The one clinic in my state is utter shit. The people are rude, 100% inflexible. Refuses to give anything but spiro, doesn't give a flying fuck about your levels pretty much. A real hon factory. I'm probably going to wind up doing the crazy thing and inject calcium chloride into my balls, get them removed for free because of how fucked up they'll be (most of the time it tricks them into thinking it's cancer), and ask a doctor to put me on estrogen because I have no balls and need a sex hormone.

>>6572752
No that's exactly what has to be done.

To maximise spiro efficacy, try to split the dose (eg 50mg morning, 50 mg lunch, 100mg evening)

As for the estradiol being too high, could try 3 mg, or just let it slide til the next test, to see if that's not a fluke.

>>6572788
What exactly is wrong with estrogen being too high?
I know T being too high will make me a hon, but what's wrong with high E?

>>6572792
Also, is biculamide or whatever legal in the US? I know cypro isn't but is bicu?

>>6572792
The risks of HRT are dose-related. It's good practice to not get over normal range if results are satisfying.

Is there someway to estimate how much of a AA to take based on T levels? Or is it too variable from person to person?It would be good if we had an idea of how much a certain dose of an AA would lower T levels by.

>I am starting at 30nmol/l
>https://www.nebido.com/tools/index.php/en/default/index/conversion-tool
I doubt 200mg of spiro would bring it down enough.. 100mg of Cypro seems a bit extreme but might be my only choice...

>>6572985
Pretty sure you should always start off HRT with small doses in case of any complications and just ramp it up if everything is fine

I think you can tell that youre taking enough antiandrogen once you pretty much stop getting erections or sexual urges

>>6569403
It does cross the blood-brain barrier in humans. The rat tests made us think otherwise, but it appears this is one area where we differ substantially from our preferred proxies.

>>6573038
Ideally i would be on a low does of Cypro for the long term, so i am wondering if trying to nuke T with a high dose at the start is an effective strategy...ive heard someone else mention that its sometimes best to take a high dose at first to reduce T a shit load, and then reduce the dose after that just to ensure T isnt produced further. I could see this would work with Cypro because of how it both blocks T and attacks T production. But with Spiro if you lower the dose your body would just produce more T because of negative feedback.

female-in-male body here.
i need to buy https://www.inhousepharmacy.vu/p-1313-procur-50mg-cyproterone.aspx but only have paypal/debt card but all the google links are asking me for Echeck and stuff.

back story;
mom is a 'supportive' but has not doen anything to help me since i was 19 and messed up my chance to get on pills because guilt-trips/human sheilding. i have ddcup silicone tits that i bought myself [last october] but that strap was breaking and the silicone of the left tit was coming out so it is tied by a shoestring and all taped up. tried growing out my hair but me mom will not take me out anywhere 'looking like a homeless person/hippi'.
last time i talked to her was march and it went like;

6.3.2016;
told me mom about https://www.inhousepharmacy.vu/p-1313-procur-50mg-cyproterone.aspx but she is more irl face-to-face than just taking advice from someone online without knowing them but not in a stranger danger way - more of; see what the person says and suggest ye take before you just buy something like this willy-nilly.

>'you could /die/ if you take the wrong thing.'
says 'die' like it is a bad thing for me

>keeps asking me if i am sure i wanna go through with it
since age 19 [am 26] of talking about it off and on/having ddcup silicone tits since october of 2015/growing out my hair and buying female clothes - i would think i am sure of /this/. after all your talk about how i should not trust people that are trans, you end the talk by saying that you do not mean stranger danger and i should not be a MTF because am a male and should not take trans pills to be a female? heh.

>>6573699
>silicone tits
You realize hormones make you grow tits right?

>just taking advice from someone online
Don't do this. Listen to others advice sure, but do your own damn research as well. I am 24 and spent the last two months doing nothing but researching hormones alld day and night. My plan so far is to take 50mg of cypro daily + 2mg of estrofem daily, then after 1 month increase to 4mg of estrofem., then maybe afte 6months switch to injections, but plans can change. Do your research. Youwill hardly die from hrt, unless you are stupid and ovodose. There are long term risks, and thats why you see a GP/ family doctor for blood tests and check ups every 3 months or so. Also blood tests are prety important to help you get your hormones into the target ranges. But there are plenty of trannys here who self med with no help, and they turn out fine. Just be smart and minimize risk. You are 26 years old so you can be responsible for yourself

>>6573699
>you could /die/ if you take the wrong thing.

You need an anti-androgen
>https://www.inhousepharmacy.vu/p-1313-procur-50mg-cyproterone.aspx
You need an estrogen
>https://www.inhousepharmacy.vu/p-166-estrofem-2mg-tablets.aspx

I just saved your life Anon.

>>6572626
Thanks, it's because i don't know if my therapist will talk shit to me if i already started Estrogen, so at least i want to stop the T action.

I'm also researching about wich E i'll take

>>6573794
Not that anon but one question:

What about the Progesterone?

>>6573951
cypro is a progestin
hope i helped

How likely and/or dangerous is the possibility of an allergic reaction? I know it's possible, so is there any precautions you should take on your very first dosing? Some kind of testing possible?

>>6574110
Don't start more than 1 drug a month if you can help it so you can narrow down what's causing an allergic reaction.

Also start with low doses so in the case you do react badly it won't be so bad.

>>6572587
Spearmint and peppermint is supposed to reduce testosterone levels.

>>6574134
Doesn't that kinda go against the extremely widely practice starting of an AA and an E at the same time? Besides, don't allergic reactions manifest extremely quickly and violently? Shouldn't a day or two at most be sufficient spacing?

>>6573759
family doctor is a short redhead female jew who guilt-trips and human-sheilds for money that works in a jewish place ran by jews.
i visit r9k, pol and v btw.
i can take pills just fine because i take smell allergy tablets and advil when needed. i already take 2 flintsone tablets when i wake up.
my stomach is a blackhole and shits out dairy because ibs.
there is plan B which is just buying zentai anime female busty bodysuit. i wanna be a hucow or bigger.

>>6573794
Payment Info
** NOTE **

Our ability to charge Credit Cards has been shut down by lobby groups in the US acting on behalf of BigPharma. The ONLY method of payment is an echeck which is a simple and secure process that our customers have found to be safe and secure.!
Please choose how you would like to pay?
E-Check

I will fax my E-check payment details.

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>>6574166

>>6574156
Hey if you're confident in yourself then go for it. I'm personally allergic to penicillin and I took it for a long while before I realized it. It wasn't dramatic or obvious and progressively got worse.

It's your body not mine, I'm just putting in my 2 cents.

>>6574188
Ohhh, you're talking about being minorly allergic and compounding your sensitivity to it through repeated use. Fuck, that's a good point. I don't really know what to do with that then.

How to get Androcur online if I'm in the US?

>>6573515
My belief is that 50 mg cypro is enough to totally suppress T in basically anycase, and thus that adding more has no benefit in efficacy or speed of degration of gonadal tissue (which allow for lower dose eventually), but additional risks for side-effects.

>>6574754
At which point would you say it might be okay to see if 25mg cypro would work for me? I've been on 50mg just short of 4 months, and was on spiro for a couple years prior. My balls are much smaller than they once were but not as small as my tranny gf's who has super tiny balls and is around 4 years in.

Would I figure out within a week or two if it was still working as normal? Should I even try?

What's the point of going to a doctor when most likely they'll only give out Spiro?

>>6575596
i think the only reason is you need referrals from medical professionals when you want to get srs
if you don't want that just do whatever the fuck you want

>>6575596
Because you can get it covered by insurance, and spiro might work for you.
It's a shit tier drug with a host of side effects but if it lowers your T to female levels, it's working.

>>6575618
Wouldn't it just be therapists? Like I doubt hrt is even necessary for someone to get srs (in the most extreme case, some kind of medical condition precluding it. Also you hear of hons who take hormones for like a month and then "become a true woman")
If not, then would you just pretend like you're on the Spiro and do what you want?

>>6575635
Only "working for you" in the loosest application of the phrase. If another AA lowered your test to female levels but also made you go blind, is that working for you?
The insurance benefit would also be minimal from estrogen which is already super cheap

>>6575657
mild dizziness and low energy =/= going blind

>>6575663
Missingthepoint.jpg

>>6575676
guess i am, but I'm not sure what it is

>>6575663
Not them but it made me feel like utter shit, heavy lightheadedness, cramps, and most importantly, heart palpitations caused by the lowered blood pressure, a potentially fatal complication (and it wasn't from the potassium, I had it checked). Spiro is not for everyone and you must remember its antiandrogenic effects are relatively weak and are merely a side-effect of the medication. It's not for everyone.

That said, it nuked my testosterone just fine. But at great cost and risk. At least for me. Try it if you want but be prepared. There are other antiandrogens that are intended first and foremost as antiandrogens, and quite often they carry vastly fewer side effects and you feel much better in your body while on them.

I'm hearing conflicting things about whether or not you need to take AAs after your orchi due to adrenal glands still producing T. My girlfriend used to take 150mg of Spiro and 6mg of Estradiol a day but now that she had an Orchi she is not sure where her dosages should be. Everywhere is showing different information.

>>6566133
really 200 mg? I was thinking of starting with just 100 per day until i start school again and can talk to my psychopharmacologist about getting a script

>>6576273

Why doesn't she get a fucking blood test?

>>6576273
It's a case by case thing. Some will need a low dose AA, some won't, and others will be asked if they'd like to supplement their unbelievably low T.

>>6575144
I don't know how long, really. Maybe 10 months ?

A blood test 2-3 month after would show you if your T level is still low on the reduced dose.

It is worth it to try, once again the adverse effects are dose-related, plus you could save some money. Some go as low as 12.5mg per day.

>>6578119
I can't do blood testing due to remote-as-fuck location, inability to go any official route, so on.

Judging as far as just symptoms go, I've been pretty #rekt in the test department for a long time, long before I started cypro. Now it feels the most #rekt it ever has and I can't even get hard pretty much. No libido at all except a little bit the day or two after an estrogen injection. Upon orgasm (which is really hard to obtain) there's either nothing coming out, or like a drop of clear liquid that is extremely watery compared to cum. It's pretty much been like that since I was on spiro.

Would it hurt to just try it out now? I mean I could just up the dose again if I noticed resurgence of testosterone right? I've come really far in regards to physical changes so I feel like I would probably notice that shit, I noticed a little spike when I switched from spiro to cypro, at least.

>>6578178
Not ideal, but you could do that.

if you order from inhousepharmacy how does it appear on your credit statement? If my parents happen to see a weird $50 charge i want to be able to lie and say it's something else

>>6580306
If I remember correctly it comes up as something else, doesn't even refer to pharmacies at all. It's been a long time since I ordered from them though, like 2.5 years or so.

OK can anyone help me with a how-to on ordering from inhouse via e-check from the USA?

I've never done it before, the one time I did try e-check was with ADC and it didn't pan out, probably because I did it wrong.

Can anyone explain it to me like I'm 5? I've got about 10 days to place an order for more cypro.

>>6580355
oh, they only take e-check now, apparently

>>6580551
and they also require a script

>>6580592
Protip: choose to fax it and never send it.

Or has even that changed?

When you guys say "take spiro with food" does that mean putting it inside the food i'm eating and crunching it up in there? Or does it mean take it right before or after eating?

>>6580663
pretty sure that has changed, an anon posted about how her order was cancelled because she didn't fax her prescription

>>6580683
lol. Take it with your lunch or shortly afterward.

>>6580700
(And not inside the food, if that wasn't clear.)

>>6580700
>>6580703
ok thank goodness! that stuff tastes terrible

>>6566160
>not needing only 100mg
>taking a hon level dose

>>6580693
welp guess i'm cutting my balls off

JK I'll only be injecting them with calcium chloride.

>>6580693
how do i get my illegal mones now?

>>6581299
qhi.co.uk

>>6581327
is the 45 euro minimum real? it looks like if i order less i can get to the order information page just fine?

>>6581422
i don't have a clue, the generic cypro is 51 euro so i've never ordered for less than that

>>6581327
>>6581422
>>6581485
Do they take visa cards from people in the USA?

why is everyone so obsessed with inhouse? their prices are not very good

>>6582124

What site(s) and drugs do you use?

>>6582169
i've used alldaychemist, qhi, brandmedicines

qhi is across the board cheaper than inhouse for example. qhi also has the cheapest estrogen for all. i haven't compared it to allday for spiro, but i bet qhi is still much cheaper. i use brandmeds for bicalutamide and qhi for estrogen.
although considering i see people unironically buying 25mg spiro pills i shouldn't be too surprised people wouldn't take five minutes to comparison shop

>>6582327
alright, qhi is actually about a wash with inhouse for spiro (assuming you buy the maximum quantity)
allday is the better option than both most likely

It's been 7 days since my order was shipped from QHI. When should I start panicking constantly about whether or not mynpackage was seized by customs? Canada btw. One, two more days?

>>6582357
ADC has really bad cypro prices and is almost always out of it.
For injections they reign supreme.
>>6583673
If it is seized you will receive a notice saying such, so just sit back and wait for whatever arrives to arrive

>>6583673
When customs checks things, expect an extra three weeks of wait to receive the item. They have carefully checked my drugs twice, and sent them along after a good long glaring at them each time.

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Is there a chart with diet advice, like what to eat and what to avoid when on meds? Google only turns up vague answers.

[spoiler]Do GPs even tell you this if you bother to go legit[/spoiler]

>>6586601
If on spiro, look up foods that are high in potassium and try to avoid them. Don't go too overboard with it though, or you'll actually suffer too low of potassium levels. Potassium is a pretty important nutrient, particularly for heart health. Don't utterly cut out all potassium-bearing foods, just cut them down a bit, and try to avoid overdoing them.

>>6586601
Avoid smoking on estrogens.

Take HRT with a meal, or at least a fatty snack.

>>6586615 this

Plus general advice for medication, avoid St John Wort and grapefruit.

>>6586765
>tfw smoker on HRT
I'm just waiting for something horrible to happen at this point.

Atleast it doesn't seem to impair my breast growth.

>>6586770
Oh don't even worry about it doctors just like to tag "lel don't smoke" onto anything they can. This is no exception. Odds are you'll be as fine as you would be smoking without the HRT, not saying it's healthy but I don't think it truly causes extra issues. Feel free to link me some scientific studies done on smoking HRT users though, anyone who wants to argue :^)
>>6586765
IIRC it's not the best idea to be eating before taking bicalutamide.

>>6563214
I have pretty bad bladder problems that started getting worse lately, i'm taking 50mg cypro and 6mg estro daily, can't measure levels or anything, i have occasional stomach pains too
am i fucked, /hrtg/?

>>6586928
>IIRC it's not the best idea to be eating before taking bicalutamide.
Source?

Yo girls, I've been wondering what are your doses...
I'm going to an endocrynologist but she seems not to have idea what she has to do, lol...
I've been taking 2mg estradiol valerate and 50mg spironolactone a day for 9 months...

What do you think of it?

I really want to learn more about hormone levels, doses and that kind of stuff...

I'll be extremelly grateful if you told me about your personal expriences or give me some links.

>>6587424
>2mg estradiol valerate and 50mg spironolactone a day for 9 months...
that is awfully low and if you've been taking it for 9 months, your endo doesn't have a clue about what she's doing, that is a starter dose
i'm on 6 mg of estradiol valerate orally and 25 mg of cyproterone acetate, been on this dose for about 3 months, ramped up over 9 months

>>6587424
I take 4.5 estradiol valerate. 6mg e is usual, but valerate is more potent. You NEED to increase doses. Spiro sounds low, but you don't neccessairly need high antiandrogen when you got enough E.

>>6587435
>your endo doesn't have a clue about what she's doing
Yeah, she kind of confessed she wansn't really aware of the trans thing...
Gotta tell her what she has to do, lol.
>>6587446
Oh, I see... I wasn't seeing results to be honest apart from my prolactine levels going up, and therefore my tits producing milk...

I started with etinilestradiol and 100mg spiro, but changed after 3 months because etinil is not-so-useful and may be a bit risky and lowered spiro because my girlfriend was not happy at all with my erections losing power.
So I asked about cypro, but she told me it was a no-no question...

>>6587514
Ethynil estradiol is dangerous yes.

Well you can't listen to your girlfriend. If she wants your erections you can't transition successfully. You need high testosterone for it to work perfectly. I take very little cypro, and my dick works fine, even with weeks of not masturbating. So don't worry, you might be able to have a functioning dick and lower your t still.

>>6587514
Oh and your tits produce milk? That's crazy. Im jealous. Mine sometimes have white residue on them, that's it.

>>6587532
The main issue with antiandrogens was I got 0,15ng/ml testosterone when I was taking 100mg spiro

with 50mg spiro I've got 2,05ng/ml testosterone

prolactine is on 50 ng/ml

and estradiol is 58 pg/ml

>>6587542
I was able to produce drops of milk before starting hormones, but after I developed breast tissue i'm lactating a lot

Just got my cypro and estrogen! Should I start them both at once?
I've tried to research it and found differing opinions.

>>6586765
Nicotine binds to estrogen receptors. So it's not the tobacco. It's the nicotine.

>>6588261
Just start both at once, the conetits thing is a myth and if you get cone tits they'll even out given enough time. Teenage girls get cone tits too, it's a good sign, means you probably won't have utterly nonexistent boobs like many trannies.

>>6587542
Just get hit in the tit extremely hard by an industrial freezer door.
>tfw do that
>tfw hurts like a motherfucker
>tfw feel wetness in my shirt
>go to bathroom
>fluid leaking out of tit
lole

>>6587032
I think it has something to do with bica liking to get stored in fat or something along those lines and I'm pretty sure I read it on the wiki article or some other thing I found simply looking up the word "bicalutamide" so I would start there. Again take it with a grain of salt, but I am pretty sure I remember reading about that. I'd go and check it.

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I'm running out of injectable estrogen (the Indian formula) that I've been on for 9 months, its gonna be hard to get more since the Indian pharmas don't ship to Sweden. The coated pills, progynova are easily accessible, are they good? I'm kinda scared of switching from god tier injections to pills

I was on 10mg/1ml injections, what should my dosage in pills be?

>>6588460
Yes, they are good, I switched from injections to progynova and I experienced more tit growth, even years after it had basically petered out on injections. They're totally fine. You'll be totally fine. Do 4mg/day and see how you feel.

Injections are kickass but sticking with only one method forever is a bad idea IMO. I started with hemihydrate pills, went to injections when they petered out, went to valerate pills quite a while later, and now I'm back on injections. My skin felt even smoother than it already did when I started with the valerate pills. Was pretty nice.

Switch or go back and forth all you want, you'll be totally fine, don't fall for the retarded memes here from retarded trannies who know literally nothing about this shit.

>>6588405
>tfw conetits already evened out
>tfw tinytits

>>6588740
How long have you been doing HRT? Have you tried altering your regimen at all? I know most of us are bound to have small tits but they do take years to finish developing, contrary to what most people here (who are typically a year or less in, and very rarely over two) will make you think.

>>6588414
I'm a musician and whenever I put the strap and start playing in a hurry I destroy my tits... I feel your pain...

>>6588893
I'm that poster and I play guitar and bass, even used to be in several regularly gigging bands (multiple paid shows weekly) and I quit because I didn't want to wind up as a freak on stage lol. Might get back into it soon though but it'll be awkward because I'm well known among the music scene here and have a good reputation, although that should work in my favor. I still don't want to have that good image of me destroyed but whatever, they can't find a better bass player, not here.

>>6588911
Me too, I give theory and bass lessons, as well as playing in two well known bands in my city... For me, having the transition stuff being a public issue worked... I said a lot of cheesy thankful words on the mic several times, and sometimes still doing it... The haters are always on it though, and hard times may come... Stick to your friends, they'll take care of you whenever something happens

What's the general consensus regarding patches?

Does anyone know if starting MtF HRT lowered their cholesterol? I heard that people that supplement their testosterone like cis guys and trans men have their cholesterol rise. And I have seen at least one study where HDL (good) rose and LDL (bad) dropped in elderly (post-menopausal) cis women after starting HRT. So I'm hoping my high cholesterol has dropped. I also feel like if it dropped, it would support me in transition against my parents' arguments. Why take one poison like a statin to treat something I wouldn't have if I got rid of the main poison, testosterone? It's like bringing in one invasive species to take on another invasive species with no natural predators.

Also, when am I supposed to get a blood test when taking oral estradiol? I heard 4 hours after last dose, but also right before next dose. I forgot to ask my endocrinologist.

And how do you change from a pediatrician to a doctor for adults? My current doctor clearly isn't comfortable with trans people, so I would like to move on and get my blood drawn with someone else. I don't know any trans people in my city who I can ask which doctors are trans friendly. So I may just go from my current doctor who's just uncomfortable to a doctor who's outright transphobic. But I turn 22 years old next year, so it's not like I can stay.

>>6588893
>pick up the guitar
>put it to your chest
>OW WHAT THE FUCK

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>>6586928
Smoking is associated with an increased risk of thrombosis
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17726684

Estrogens are associated with an increases risk of thrombosis
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20163835

Risk factor generally don't add, but multiply. There is a real danger, magnitude of which is difficult to estimate but is greater than smoking alone.

>>6587032
>>6588426
Can be taken with or without a meal.(It's written in the leaflet, btw)

>>6589006
Theoretically can be pretty good, but in practice you may need more than one at once to get adequate levels, plus there is the possibility of skin reaction/itching.

>>6589020
Yes estrogen improves lipid profile compared to testosterone. For reference, chapter 6e of Harrison's internal medicine (pic related) or http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14712987

Blood test just before next dose.

Search (youth) support group, don't have to stay if you don't want, but they often have knowledge of who to seek. Or go informed consent if that's a possibility.

>>6587007

Not much you can do without a blood test other than adjusting your dose, just to see if you feel any different. Lots of people are fine with just 25mg of cypro so you could try lowing to that. or if you think the the problem is estro you could lower to 4 mg. Or you could lower both just to see if it makes a difference at all. Haven't heard of bladder problems on cypro though... any other info? how long you been on mones? any past health problems etc?

>>6589124
Thank you for linking scientific research specifically providing evidence that it significantly (more than the added effects) increases the risk for thrombosis specifically in people on HRT. Oh wait.

I'm not saying it's healthy, but you're talking about a 1 to 10 in 1000 chance event, in a healthy individual without predisposition for such things. Even if that goes up threefold the vast majority have no worries.

>>6589453
Oh yeah going to add, I'm not a smoker. I just think it's funny how rabidly anti-smoking people act, and how they act like your heart will literally explode out of your chest if you smoke a single cigarette on HRT.

>>6589442
>any past health problems
no
>how long on mones
7 Months
>never heard of bladder issues on cypro
i've seen a thread on this board with some anon stating they had more bladder issues on cypro than spiro, so i kinda thought it was okay
Until it started getting worse, if i drink anything at all in 15 min i'll want to use the bathroom.
Not sure how i can lower cypro, since 1 pill is 50mg as it is, and besides i actually don't think it's enough since i still get erections and stuff, i used to take 100mg cypro but it gave me strong stomach pains so i dropped down to 50mg

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>>6587424
standard dose of spiro is 200mg, 100mg is low, 50mg is VERY low. Do you have your testorone levels checked? because you want them to be in female range wich is about 0.4 - 4.5 nmol/l (10 - 85 ng/dl). If you live outside the US try and get put on Cypro instead, a standard dose of cypro is 50mg, but 25mg is also effective for many people.

now onto estrogen...
2mg of estradoil is FUCKING low!. most people start at 2mg of estradoil for a month or 2 to be safe, then up it to 4-6 mg. You will likely get much better changes from 4mg. i would also suggest asking to be prescribed estradoil hemihydrate (estrofem) instead of estradoil valerate (progynova). Then you can take the dose sublingualy (dissolve under the tongue), This should reduce the risk and strain on the liver etc. it is usually a good idea to split the dose aswell, taking 2mg at night and 2mg in the morning etc.. Estrogen levels need to be checked to make sure they within female range, roughly (150 - 250 pg/dl)

>>6589453
>thank you for (not) specifically providing evidence
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/no-true-scotsman

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>>6589502
>Not sure how i can lower cypro, since 1 pill is 50mg as it is
>pillsplitter.jpg

How long where you on 100mg before dropping to 50mg?

>>6589553
just like 2-3 weeks or so, i was also using spiro before switching to cypro

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Is there any indicator that your anti-androgen dosage is too low?

I've been on 100mg of spiro and 2 mg of estrogen and I haven't noticed much change. When I started I had no money so I could only afford this dosage however I recently got a job so I can afford to increase the dosage.

Most people say they experience less erections but I haven't and I can't really tell that my skin has gotten softer and there is still hair all over my body so I think I should up my dosage of spiro to 200mg.

Are there any ways that :
1. a self-medder can do blood tests
2. otherwise tell whether your dosage of anti-androgen is too low.

I've also been considering cypro so any info about it would also be appreciated.

I also live in the UK so US options might not work.

>>6590069
Online blood tests.

Additionally; what dosage of cypro is equivalent in effectiveness to spiro i.e. is 50mg of cypro around about the same as 200mg of spiro?

>>6590070
Do they just send you a kit that you send back with your blood and then you get the results?

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>>6590088

You cant realy do a direct comparison between cypro and spiro, because spiro only blocks t whereas cypro both blocks and reduces t production etc. a standard dose of cypro is 50mg, and a low dose is 25mg. if you are going from 200mg of spiro you would usually go to 50mg of cypro, but you may be ok with less.

Most british self medders use: >https://www.qhi.co.uk/
Though if you can you should realy see a doctor and get everything covered by the nhs

>>6590069
Why such the low dose of estrogen? might be worth increasing as most say you wont get noticeable changes below 4mg daily

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>>6590070
are these real?

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Will spiro/fina help stop smelling like a man and get rid of oily skin as well?
And will there be any effect on skin color. body hair?
And does HRT make hair grow faster? or make it more smooth to get through the awkward stage faster?

>>6590069
Just go to your GP tell them you are trans and self medding and need blood tests to check your hormone levels.

>>6590626
Spiro will make your skin less oily, don't know if it alone will change body odor as I've only taken it with estrogen.
Skin color might lighten a bit, depending on your sun exposure. Mine got near translucent tier but because jew genes I tan pretty darkly pretty easily.
Body hair and beard hair would grow more slowly, would eventually go away aside from beard hair and maybe some stragglers, IMO stragglers just take more time. I couldn't say whether it improved head hair growth because I had never grown my hair out before starting.

>>6590719
If I do that won't they inform parents about that kind of stuff or is there some sort of patient confidentiality even with minors.

What's everyones HRT schedule like?

Am I doing it right?

>100mg Cypro split twice a day
>8mg Estrofem split 2mg at 12pm, 2mg at 6pm and 4mg when going to sleep

>>6591319
100 mg cypro is quite a lot, did 50 mg not work for you?

>>6591319
wow don't those doses seem a little high? have you had blood tests? how long have you been taking those doses and any negative side effects?

>>6591342
>>6591339
50mg worked fine, I just read that 100mg was recommended and that 50 was a low dose

>>6591342
No blood tests, started HRT 3 weeks ago

Regarding E, I read 4mg was also considered a low dose, so that's why I went higher

>>6591352
I just started my 25mg/day experiment last night, down from 50mg which assassinated sex drive harder than spiro did in 2 years. I've actually read a lot of reports that many endos go by old guidelines from the days before bio identical estrogens, when more AA was required. Allegedly many euros are on 12.5mg or 10mg (they do make 10mg cypro pills) and get their test nuked just fine. I'm just running a trial run, if I can go without going above female test levels with half as much, all the better for me. Also I have read long term usage of greater than 25mg can lead to some serious complications in some cases. All things considered I'd like to see if this works for me.

>>6591484
>Allegedly many euros are on 12.5mg or 10mg
That sounds ridiculously low considering what I have been led to believe is the norm

>>6591526
Put in perspective: Diane-35, a birth control pill containing 2mg CPA and 0.625mg ethynil estradiol (if memory serves, and yeah, holy grail of blood clots) was often enough to nuke or drop to female levels the T of trans girls unable to get their hands on proper HRT with just 2 or 3 tablets a day. Obviously much more popular in places that don't heavily control access to birth control, but do HRT.

CPA is very good at what it does, and even most of us on 50 could probably safely move down to 25 without any measurable gain in T levels - it's just clinical trials of transgender HRT regimens aren't popular so we have no hard data. If there were some way to verify the information in the survey in this thread, it would certainly be the most robust resource on transfeminine hormone regimens in current medical literature - and that's sad.

>>6591526

Medroxyprogesterone acetate I think is prescribed at 10mg a day as a pill AA (emphasis on think). Cyproterone also has a three times greater affinity for the progesterone receptor than MPA does, if I remember the Wikipedia article correctly. So I find it believable.

New to /lgbt/ what's the first step to self med? Which meds, what tests, when do I know I need

>>6592116
See
>>6563214

>>6591641
The thing about cypro is that much (over half) of it is converted into 15beta-hydroxycyproterone acetate in the liver, and 15beta-hydroxycyproterone acetate is about 10% as active in its progestogenic effects as CPA. So while CPA is a potent progestogen, in practice it is not quite that potent. Still potent, you're just not getting the full effects.

And don't chime in with "but what about injected cypro!" because metabolism also occurs in your muscles.

Something to keep in mind.

>>6589553
>not just using a knoife

>>6589546
>requiring evidence to back up points is no-true-scotsman fallacy
Lel good one m8.

>>6594516
>"Odds are you'll be as fine as you would be smoking without the HRT"
burden of proof?

see
>>6589124
>Smoking is associated with an increased risk of thrombosis
>Estrogens are associated with an increases risk of thrombosis
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17726684
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20163835

>>6589453
> "you didn't research specifically"
>"specifically"
> no "specific" Scotsman fallacy

>>6590626
I have a question regarding hair.I ve been taking estradiol valerate (4dosage)along woth bica(50 dosage), and everything seems to be working ok, but i have experienced some hair loss.Should i worry?I dont wanna get bald.

>>6595880

Where is the hair loss?

>>6595910
Mainly in the upper part of my headIs the bica to blame ?I believe this because i've read that it rises the t levels while blocking the receptors.Also im experiencing some diarrhea ,breathing and slepping problems.

>>6594973
I don't think you understand how scientific evidence works. Until you have proofs on one specific thing, e.g. the combo of HRT and smoking causing a synergistic increase in thrombosis risk, you don't have shit. Does it up the thrombosis risk? Sure. But to what extent? You don't know.

If you want to go off of anecdotal evidence, I know many trannies who smoke (I used to manage a smoke shop next to my state's only HRT clinic) and not a single one has had thrombosis problems. Hardly scientific, but I don't see anyone offering up anything else other than links to the separate thrombosis risks, rather than the combined.

So I found an online store in EU that sells injections (Neofollin 5x1ml/5mg. Will report back once they have arrived and I have confirmed if they are legit.

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Is this accurate?

3 months until I see any changes?

>>6596046
Bica must be taken with fina or duta if you are at any risk of hair loss.

>>6596895
P. Much. You'll probably see your skin improve and lighten well before that, and get breast buds over the course of the first 2-5 weeks, but the chart gives a fairly good (if rough) estimate at the periods where changes are likely to start becoming noticeable, be in full swing, and be done.

It's wrong about when breasts are done, but it's not like a thorough examination of tranny boobs has ever been conducted, so whatever.

>>6596935
>It's wrong about when breasts are done
When are they done?

Also I heard that you need to eat to grow breasts but I'm trying to lose weight

>>6596845 #

Does anyone actually use 5mg/ml? That sounds like a post orchiectomy/cis woman dosage.

How will you confirm it's legitimate? Are you a chemist or are you going to base it on whether it resembles other estradiol valerate oils?

>>6596895

I felt nipple tenderness a month and a half in, personally.

>>6596931
Inject every 3 days
?????
Profit

>>6596948
I'm using the same injections right now but I have to get them imported over a local pharmacy at over 3 times the usual price.

>>6596931
My endo just started me on that this week. It's been fucking torture since Tuesday, and I have to wait until Friday.

She needs to start understanding trans patients' needs as individuals, because without being pushed, she has a habit of following a flow chart curiously lacking in attention to the patient's well-being at any break point.

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>>6596820
Consider this table from the first link.

Odds ratio of thrombosis for current smoker, no Oral Contraceptive is 2.03

Oral Contraceptive + never smoker is 3.90

Oral Contraceptive + current smoker is 8.79

You'll notice that 8.79 is around 2.03*3.90, not 2.03+3.90

Furthermore it is a a given that risk factors affecting the same pathway will multiply (show "synergy" in your terms) due to the very basic fact that given p(event)=(A+a)*(B+b) where A is baseline probability for causative event A, and a the increase in probability due to a risk factor, same for B/b, the total increase to p(event) is a function of a*b not a+b.

>>6596942
Expect the majority of growth in the period indicated, and very gradual growth and "filling out" for 4 to 7 years after.

Is there a webpage or infographic that distinguishes which effects are due to AA and which are due to Estrogen?

Feeling a bit silly having started a month ago and being so uninformed

>>6596996
You should really do rigorous research on the effects of all the drugs you take. After you've done so, you'll not need the infographic.

Wish informed consent were universally available, and very thoroughly informed.

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PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT!

There is now a generic form of Estrace. It is super cheap! It is slightly larger, and a bit of a different color!

>>6597034
Oh yeah Estrace is on the left.

I also have no info on the generic but the pharmacists assures me I will get the same results but this is the most important medication in my life so I am pretty scared.

With my med coverage it was only 28 bucks for 2 months of spiro and generic estrogen so I was pretty pumped about that though.

>>6597034
>>6597127

I thought Teva (some Israeli generics manufacturer) had a generic of 17b estradiol out for a while?

How should you split up your estrogen doses?

2mg every 8 hours?
or should you take a larger dose before bed?

>>6597127
How does estrace compare to estrofem? It can be taken sublingualy better right?

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Anyone here take Zumenon? it doesn't look like estrofem is on the Australian pharmaceutical benefits scheme, and i don't want to get prescribed hon teir progynova

>>6596951

Isn't the point of rotating injection spots to not exhaust/damage them? If you more than double how often you're doing injections, you'll have a problem, won't you?

>>6596960

Why do you have to get them imported instead of from a local pharmacy?

>>6596965

Does the dose feel too low?

>>6597011

There's something that really bothered me from an ethical point of view when I came across it. I could swear reading in an informed consent clinic's education forms for HRT that you are not to take more estrogen than you're given because it could convert into testosterone, and thus, virilize you. Obviously that's a lie because the conversion of testosterone to estrogen is a one way street. The only thing I could come up with for why they would put that lie in is so that some desperate tranny doesn't raise her DVT risk ridiculously in some attempt to gain massive amounts of feminization. I understand the need to protect a patient from themselves, but to lie to them when this is supposed to be [informed] consent?

>>6596970
Without a clear definition on what their "odds ratio" means, those tables are entirely useless.

Without showing the entire study and their methods, those tables are also useless.

What does 5.73 odds ratio mean anyway? 5.73 per 100? 5.73 per 1000? It's extremely ambiguous without the full picture - without their methods and exactly how they defined "odds ratio".

Get it? 3.90 -what-? 8.79 -what-?

If the risks percentage is still low relative to the total number of people, even if there is synergizing of the thrombosis risks of both in transgender patients on HRT (which you don't have proofs of), if the synergized chance of getting a thrombosis event is still low I wouldn't act like your head is going to explode by smoking on HRT.

An immensely low chance quadrupled is still an immensely low chance. Get what I'm saying here? You have to look at things critically. Is it best to avoid smoking? Yes, in all cases. But if someone chooses to smoke, they should not be lied to and told their head will explode i.e. they shouldn't be told they'll get a thrombosis event from it when it's statistically still extremely low chance.

>>6597415
On top of this, I must say that their sample sizes are low and this study should not be taken in isolation, purely off of that.

>>6597391
>estrogen into testosterone is a lie
What what??? it cant can it be...a meme spread by doctors to oppress trannys??

>>6597415
just my guess but..
5.73 = 573% = over 5 times the risk

>>6597457
Nice, wanna link me the study instead of pulling random bullshit completely out of your ass?

>>6597457
Also I must do a little exercise to show you why it might not even matter if it's 573% increase in risk.

0.001(one in one thousand)x5.73=0.00573= 5.73 in 1000 = doing both would make your risk of doing that shit and getting thrombosis still extremely low, despite the increase.
As I said, something with a tiny chance, multiplied by many times, is still a tiny chance.

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>>6597467
I was being nice...
5.73 is mathematically the same as 573% you fuck wit. Pull simple calculation ability out of your arse and you would realize that.

>>6597499
just like half of the autistic hons on this board. they have such a small chance of ever being loved, that even if they increased their chances by passing, it's still not going to happen.

>>6597499
But anon-san, even if it is a tiny chance in the individual, when it is applied to populations you will start seeing instances of real people getting fucked over by chance. If we can decrease the probability we can be decreasing the potential number of victims. you may say its a tiny fucking chance, but that tiny chance could equal fucking up the lives of real people, who might have otherwise not been fucked up.

>>6597508
I just did simple calculations right out of my ass for you. One cannot make such assumptions though. What if they are defining it differently? We need the study. Period.

I'm sorry that I proved to you that 5.73 times almost nothing is almost nothing, though.

>>6597558
Yes! Precisely!

>>6597563
And that is their choice by smoking, trust me, you going "hurr hurr it'll make you burst into flames and kill every member of your family in your sleep" isn't going to do anything to dissuade anyone from smoking. If they see the actual percentage chance and still want to smoke then let them, it's their body, their life.

Your argument could be used to argue that HRT shouldn't be given out. Do you think that's right? I mean some people -are- fucked by taking this shit, purely by chance. Does that mean that -everyone- should stop?

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>>6597558

DELETE THIS

>>6597572
>What if they are defining it differently?
Oh you are right! what if they are defining everything differently! what if they are using a base 12 number system where 5=2 and 1 =17 oh well fuck we cant understand anything they say then can we. Thanks buddy

>>6597281
Estradiol half-life is pretty long, so splitting is not that important. 2 times a day is fine, 1:1:2 works too.

>>6597415
The study is free access. It give the details of the methodology. Did you even read it ?

Odds ratio is a standardised statistical term with a defined meaning, you seem very uninformed for someone wanting to argue on scientific ground.

The sample size is taken onto account, as the odds ratio are given with confidence intervals (CI95), which do not overlap. Confidence interval, it's also a standardised statistical term.
In this case :

http://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/dvt/data.html

Mean incidence of 1 to 2 for 1000 annually.

Given there is very little trans people (low influence on mean incidence) we can do directly odds ratio*mean incidence. In this case going from 1 to 1000 to nearly 1% (0.879%) annually. Suppose three trannies do Hrt+smoking for their lifetime of 33.3 year, we would expect one of them to have a thrombosis event. This does not seem negligible.

>>6597591
>you going "hurr hurr it'll make you burst into flames and kill every member of your family in your sleep"
You just made a strawman...

>>6597391
>Does the dose feel too low?
It feels like I'm back in early March when customs held my E delivery extra long and I was stuck with no testosterone and virtually no estrogen (2mg daily). Yes, it is way too low for me.

Take into account that this is from the perspective of someone with virtually no endogenous estrogen production (6 mg daily had me with 206 pmol/L or less half of every day).

>I could swear reading in an informed consent clinic's education forms for HRT that you are not to take more estrogen than you're given because it could convert into testosterone
Not your imagination. That falsehood is in popular circulation, and made it into the mock informed consent document I was handed (no doctor in Ottawa follows that model, to my knowledge, but some like to pretend their patients' consent is almost as relevant as that of the shrinks whose consent is the true chokepoint).

It's why I say I'd like the informed consent documents to be more thorough. The doctors, too, should know what they say.

>>6597628
You don't need to go base 12. All it takes is movement of a decimal place and that number becomes extremely different. For all we know that number could be multiplied by 10 for ease on the eyes or any other reason.

Any retard knows a graph from a study is completely useless without the study. No study attached, no methods seen, and the graph is useless. What if their methods were flawed as fuck?

We can already see their sample size is ridiculously small. Even one or two people being a significant outlier (e.g. having genetic predisposition or resistance to thrombosis events) would fuck up their numbers. If it was in the thousands, or millions, their statistics would be so much more trustworthy and reliable.

Many more flaws could exist in this study. If we had the study to read ourselves, and not just some useless graph, we could go find out for ourselves.

>>6597651
Honestly if people want to smoke while on hrt they deserve to die.

>>6597651
>we could go find out for ourselves.
Ok you go first :www.google.com

>>6597631
Did you know many of the risks of HRT, depending on your meds, are 1 in 100 chance occurrences, or even greater? It would be best for your health if you stopped taking HRT :^)

>>6597690

Do you say that out of bitterness or a Darwinist point of view?

>>6597731
tee bee eych femme I think that many of the people on this board need to be drawn and quartered for committing acts of high treason. Perhaps they have similar reasons.

t. 14th century English king, not the poster you're responding to.

>>6597651
>muh sample size
Shows you really have no understanding of even basic statistics. There is a large effet size (on this case smokers are 8 times more likely to suffer an event), and a significant result (confidence interval not overlapping), there's no contesting that on statistics alone.

For your education, large sample size are needed for low effect size. You don't need thousands and millions to prove, for example, that eating 1kg of lead is harmful, because the effect size is great (almost all died in the case branch, almost nobody in the control).


>>6597715
Did you know balancing expected benefits and risks is an integral part of deciding a treatment plan ? Did you know smoking has no benefit ?
I feel like I'm being rused here, familia.

>>6597801
>Did you know smoking has no benefit ?
Wrong. Stress relief. Resistance to nicotine poisoning :^). If it's one of the things helping you not kill yourself I'd call it a benefit. I also never said it was good to be smoking. I simply stated that it's a risk some are willing to take, and it's far from a guarantee that you will have complications.

>8 times
8x0=0
8 x nearly 0 = nearly 0
Cigarette smoking =/= eating lead

Eating shitty food and/or too much has a lot of negative effects too, many which do things such as -increase thrombosis risk- yet I don't see you guys reminding everyone not to be a fatass.

>>6597911
>>6597631

>>6597977
>too lazy to argue
Dropped.

>>6598043
>too lazy to read
Dropped :^}

>>6596935
So , wouldnt it be better for me to take spiro or cypro instead of bica to avoid hairloss?

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>>6598061
>made zero attempt to provide full counterpoints to the post in response to that post or any other
Now you're just making me laugh you little qt :3
Rehashing old points is not the same as providing full counterpoints to that post.
If you were capable of doing so, you would.

>>6598084
Baseless condescension is my kink, please give me more of that, freshman-kun.

>>6598079
You would still need fin for spiro I think?

>>6597357
I have not taken estrofem. However I have ONLY taken my estrace sublingually. I will likely do the same with the generic now that I am on it.

However ANY micronized medication SHOULD be ok to take orally. Check with your local pharmacist.

I tried getting on injections but I would need to go to an apothecary and they told me it would be like 70$ CAD a week for my injections so I had to back out and stick to pills.

That being said because my Dr felt bad for me she upped my dosage to 5mg estrogen from 4 lol

>>6598246
Im on Spiro alone without Fin and only taking 50mg a day and my T is 0.4-0.55

Am I doing it wrong? If my T is that low does it even matter? My doctor says that all this is proof that I am legit biologically a tranny because of how low my dosage is and the results I am getting.

>>6598349
IDK I see some take fin with it thats why I was asking

>>6598246
Not quite sure.As far as i have researched, Spiro helps fighting it just by itself.Ill let it rest for a week an try to low down the dosage of estrogen to see what is causing it.

>>6598172
I'm 27, kiddo, and unlike you, I do have a degree. Graduated from uni back in 2012.
What's your kink? ;^) Needlessly responding to someone who always plays devil's advocate for funsies?

>>6581542
No, not from rogue countries.

Does progesterone alone produce breast growth?

I have read at an unreliable source that it actually reduces breasts.

>>6598890
My state is probably safer than your country.
It's safer than Liechtenstein.

>>6598890
Also I only ask because it does still leave it as an option for mail/fax order.

>>6598903
I believe progesterone only promotes breast growth when estrogen is present.

Don't quote me on that, but from what I have read on wikipedia, progesterone is more of a catalyst than anything.

>>6597911
>Stress relief.
This meme again?
Nicotine is a stimulant. Which means it does the literally the opposite of stress relief. It constricts blood vessels, increasing blood pressure and causes you to be more high strung.

The stress relief you experience from cigarettes is because you're ADDICTED, get help if you can't quit. That goes for all smokers in this thread right now.

>>6599156
don't waste your time anon there not going to listen

>>6573699
I usually just send an international money transfer from my bank.

If you live in australia, I have 200+ tablets that I'm not taking (I got a legit prescription for GnRH analog from my doctor).

>>6599209
>If you live in australia
Almost no one lives in Australia.
Australia is for hermits.

>>6599209
Can you get GnRH analogues covered by the PBS or private health insurance here?

>>6599156
Confirmed for never having smoked.
Good on you sir.

>>6597911
May not equal eating lead but it does equal breathing toxic PAHs and other partial combustion products that fuck you up with reactive oxygen species. Smokers b dumb as fuck.

>>6597391
>Rotating injection spots
I don't know about you but my quads have plenty of space, as do other injection sites you can do yourself like upper arms. Plenty of people inject every three days or more. Additionally given the half life of valerate it's not even ideal to inject every three but instead every two.

>Why get them imported
I have to get them imported from slovakia/czechia since they do not sell any kind of estrogen injections in my country and sweden and above countries are the only one that still have active an registration of any kind of injectable estrogen.

>>6597911
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10540594
>Thus, the apparent relaxant effect of smoking only reflects the reversal of the tension and irritability that develop during nicotine depletion. Dependent smokers need nicotine to remain feeling normal. The message that tobacco use does not alleviate stress but actually increases it needs to be far more widely known.

>>6596845
What site sells neofollin??

1. Are these things safe to order to home address? (EU here.) My post office workers are very nosy.
2. Do these products have some certificates? How do you check their quality and authenticity?

>>6600765
>Additionally given the half life of valerate it's not even ideal to inject every three but instead every two.
Lolwut? You mean 6 or 7 days right? Because that's what it is. If you're injecting 1ml (10mg) every 2 days you've got waaaaay too much estrogen in you most likely.
Ignore this if you're using some different valerate injections than the ones I'm used to.

Upper arms are not as good as thigh. Sure, if it's in a muscle it's generally good, but the vastus lateralis is easy access, bigger, less veins and shit (I've only hit one once in over 130 injections), less pain AFAIK. Masterrace injection site is dorsogluteal but that's best with someone else to do it for you.

>>6602082
Enjoy your levels to fluctuate by about 50% I guess.
I never said anything about how much to inject just how often.
And that other anon complained about only injecting once a week because not enough spots to inject to, I just said theres more than enough muscles where you can inject into.

>>6602215
>Ignore this if you're using some different valerate injections than the ones I'm used to.
It's like you totally glossed over what I said.
My levels are totally fine and IMO, having read some literature on it a couple years ago when I started, such fluctuations on a wider scale can improve tit growth. My tits are excellent, my progress is great, and I feel no ill effects doing weekly injections. Never, ever have I heard of someone doing an injection every 2 days. Weekly injections are perfectly fine. Flat levels being good is a meme, doctors like to push pills instead of injections because it makes their job easier and most people are too stupid to inject themselves properly, hilariously. Nothing gave me tit growth like weekly injections. Most of the growth pains would take place in the -end- of the weekly cycle too.

How about you tell us your dose. Also are you even getting blood tests?

Where can you order injections from if you're in Europe and IHP doesn't ship to your country?

>>6602352
pls link literature
im not even gonna respond to the rest of this passive aggressive shit

>>6602449
You're responding to the passive aggressive shit or I'm not linking literature. Besides, I'd rather let you keep being a total retard with your injections :3

>>6583980
Shiiiit dude if that happened it'd get to my parents house while I'm at college shit

What are the odds of that happening to me if I live in the US?

>>6602396
>>6602396
>>6602396
Bumping this

>>6573117
Is there a good aa that doesn't cross the blood brain barrier

>>6602538
I wouldn't know. Supposedly, Canadian customs was a lot more meticulous, but in the wake of the US's war on foreign pharmaceuticals at the behest of their pharma-masters, things may be changing.

>>6602678
I think I remember reading that something like that was being developed? Dunno. It worries me very little, in the grand scheme of things. You may have to look it up.

>>6602615
Honestly the only source I know of that is of any decent value is ADC, and I don't know if they'll ship to Europe. You should call them, I have heard of them having some actual location in Europe. Call them up, ask them if they'd be able to get the progynon depot vials to you.

Is Estrofem really that bad?

>>6603721
Having done injections, estrofem, and progynova (estradiol valerate oral pills) I must rate the estrofem on the bottom in terms of results and the progynova and injections on top. Can't go wrong with progynova if you want simplicity and great effectiveness.

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I don't know if this is the right place and I'm sure I'll get eaten alive for this post, but whatever.

Is there any truth to using pueraria muerifica to grow tits on a man and being more feminine in general? I'm not looking to use it as a substitute for HRT, I just read that it can help you grow tits.

My daddy/bf/slave master wants me to grow my tits and I'm wondering if this stuff is going to give me blood clots while not even getting anything out of it.

I've read that women have a lot of success using it to make their boobs bigger.

Any advice/telling me I'm an idiot is acceptable.

>>6603770
Are you already on HRT or no?
If no, start HRT if you want boobs.
Chuck the herbs in the garbage.

Alright, my order from QHI arrived today. I have 56 100mg generic spiro pills and 84 2mg Progynova (estradiol valerate) sitting beside me. I have a few questions.

1. How do I take these things? Swallowing it, under the tongue, etc?
2. How often do I take these things? What's the half lives of these medications?
3. What time do I take these things at? Semi related to the above I guess.
4. What dosages?
5. How long should I wait until first taking estrogen for precautionary allergy stuff?

Based on what I remember off the top of my head: you swallow both, the E being sublingual being a common misconception. You do both one time daily and at the same time but I don't remember anything about half lives. At night is best. Dosages are 100mg daily ramping up to 200mg for spiro and 2mg E ramping up to 4 and then maybe even 6mg over time. You ramp up like once a month or two? Then a week before starting E is probably enough.

That all right? Just want to be cautious before starting this. I'm super excited tho.

WHAT FUCKING ESTRADIOL DO I BUY

>>6605290
whatever one you want mayng

>>6605274
God damnit. Now I don't know what to do. The pill imprint that is supposedly Spiro isn't coming up as anything that actually exists. MP 24 and it's a round pale yellow pill. What do you do if your pills aren't verifiable?Anybody have any experience with these same QHI "Spiro" pills that can verify?

Are there any online stores that can ship to Mexico?

>>6589507
Thank you for your advice, I was never able to come back and reply. Really much appreciated!

>>6591282
>minors

HOLY FUCK

You have to talk to your parents...

>>6605739
Real advice:
If the "18" year old in question is "16" then they should be able to obtain informed consent, if locally available, however, it will indeed require either parental consent or medical emancipation. I know one 16 year old right now, who has gone this route, luckily with parental consent. You've gotta be adamant though and make it clear absolutely nothing will stop you, and this is for fucking real. That goes for parents, doctors, and any therapists alike.

Barring the possibility of parental consent or medical emancipation, I honestly would advise to continue to self-med under their noses until 18, but I'm almost 100% sure it'll come out eventually whether by their doing or by their parents digging.

So tread carefully but be strong in whatever you do, kid. Don't let anyone think for a fraction of a second that you aren't serious as fuck in this. >>6591282

>>6605852
Also, make it very clear there's nothing you will allow to stop you being on hormones, so they may as well do the harm reduction thing and let you have them the safe, normal, official way, without delay.

>>6586765
Cigarettes or weed? Can I still get stoned on meds?

>>6605274
>>6605649

>how do I take
Swallowed, with food/a meal (containing fat)

>How often
You can take your Progynova at once or every 12h.
For spiro however owever split the dose as much as convenient, like 1:1:2.

>What time
You decide. Mostly irrelevant, what's important is the time between doses.

>What dosage
MFW you order meds without being already set on a dosage.

Try aiming for 200mg spiro per day, 2mg estrogen which you'll up to 4 mg after some time. Blood test after that to check if 6 mg is needed.

>How long should I wait.
Ramp spiro to desired dosage in a week, check that you're not too allergic and/or too inconvenienced by the side-effects.

>dodgy QHI spiro
Yeah. Yellow MP24. Apparently they come from an obscure generics manufacturer in Germany (when looking up the chain of shell companies), but seems to be legit. At least the diuretic effect will confirm that somewhat.

>>6606027
Weed is fine.

>>6606391
>with food/a meal (containing fat)
Is there any specific reason for that?

>>6606446
Both are steroid molecules, thus lipophilic, thus better absorbed in presence of fat.

>>6566093
>tfw didnt see this survey so i couldnt respond

>>6606518
You can still do it, it's in the OP

Can/should you increase your Estrofem dosage to make up for it being less effective than Progynova?

The girls taking 200mg spiro are gonna get orchi sonner or later isn't it?

What's the opinion of "dickgirls" on antiandrogens?

>>6606547
I read that if you take estrofem sublingualy the peak and drops you get will increase its effectiveness over prognova

>>6606650
>the peak and drops you get
What does that mean?

1. Are these things safe to order to home address? (EU here.) My post office workers are very nosy.
2. Do these products have some certificates? How do you check their quality and authenticity?

Repost from >>6606658.

>>6606666
I ruined beautiful sextuples (nearly septuples). I meant "repost from >>6601155".
Also discovered a closely related post right now: >>6564248.

>>6606612
>What's the opinion of "dickgirls" on antiandrogens?
Evil incarnate. Leave them for transwomen. Unless you discover some selective antiandrogens that act only on skin, hair and fat, while sparing penis, brain, muscles and bones.

It is very hard though to find any info on feminising HRT that doesn’t rely on anti-androgens. It’s an uncharted territory and you’ll encounter a lot of resistance from /lgbt/ and doctors.

Can anyone split up which effects come from AA and what comes from E

e.g. is softer skin due to AA or E?

>>6606687
Seconded.

>>6606687
Though probably no one knows for sure.

>>6606686
>Unless you discover some selective antiandrogens that act only on skin, hair and fat, while sparing penis, brain, muscles and bones.
Wasn't cipro supposed to be that "magical thingy"?

>>6606687
>>6606689
Wikipedia for fucks sake

>>6606698
>Wasn't cipro supposed to be that "magical thingy"?
I have to learn about cipro then. Thanks.

>>6606686
>while sparing penis, brain, muscles and bones.
>brain

wait what?

>>6606703
Testosterone is a powerful mind booster.

>>6606698
Wiki tells you the nuts and bolts of what they do (reduce X, increase X etc.) not their effects

>>6606702
My endo told me that cipro was risky, altought it has that "desired localizated effect", and that having a higher dose of estrogens would work fine even if I didn't take antiandrogens

I'm still hesitating on stop taking them or not

>>6606706
>Wiki tells you the nuts and bolts of what they do (reduce X, increase X etc.) not their effects
"So this increase X... Oh.... What was X for again?
*google* Oh cool."

Trust me that's better than trusting on what an anonimous told you in the shittest place of the interwebs.

>>6606698
>>6606711
I’m exploring it on Wikipedia right now.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyproterone_acetate#Feminization
>physical demasculinization, gynecomastia (breast enlargement) and general physical feminization, breast pain/tenderness, galactorrhea (milk outflow)
So far, so good. (Hoping that "demasculinization" doesn’t stand for "muscle loss.)

>causing "severe" suppression of libido and erectile potency, comparable to that seen with surgical castration.
NOPE!!! You tried to kill me, anon!!!

>>6606718
>physical demasculinization
>and general physical feminization
Pretty vague

i am prescribed 100mg of cpa. i was on 150mg for a very long time. i am also prescribed 4mg of estradiol.

i am not a very healthy person. like at all. i don't know what it's attributable to tho (apart from past psych med exposure) given that at my age my problems are very unusual. cpa is something i'd probably like gone asap, just to eliminate factors. i've been on it way too long, and it doesn't seem the type of med one should take forever. people should at least take b12 with it given what it does to b12 stores in many people.

>>6606718
SORRY!!! I DIDN'T MEAN CYPRO

Just read it earlier in this same thread, I meant "flutamide!"


btw, my "advice" was not to take antiandrogens at all

I've been self-medding HRT for 1 month

How can I get blood tests in the UK without having to talk to anyone?

>>6606732
Thanks for important clarification.

>>6606739

Non-steroidal antiandrogens used in HRT for trans women include flutamide, nilutamide, and bicalutamide. Unlike steroidal antiandrogens such as spironolactone and cyproterone acetate, these drugs are pure androgen receptor antagonists. They do not lower androgen levels; rather, they act solely by preventing the binding of androgens to the androgen receptor. However, they do so very strongly, and are highly effective antiandrogens. Bicalutamide has improved tolerability and safety profiles relative to cyproterone acetate, as well as to flutamide and nilutamide, and has largely replaced the latter two in clinical practice for this reason. Enzalutamide is a more recently introduced non-steroidal antiandrogen with even greater potency and efficacy as an antiandrogen than bicalutamide, but it is still under patent protection and in relation to this is currently (and for the foreseeable future) extremely expensive. Moreover, enzalutamide has been found to act as a negative allosteric modulator of the GABA receptor and has been associated with central side effects such as anxiety, insomnia, and, most notably, seizures (in ~1% of patients), properties that it does not share with bicalutamide.

Non-steroidal antiandrogens may be an appealing option for those who wish to preserve sex drive and function[47] and/or fertility,[48] as well as for those who desire more selective action with fewer side effects than spironolactone and cyproterone acetate (which increase the risk of depressive symptoms, among other adverse effects).[49] Bicalutamide specifically may also be a safer drug than cyproterone acetate or spironolactone, as it has a much lower risk of hepatotoxicity relative to cyproterone acetate and, unlike spironolactone, has no risk of hyperkalemia or other antimineralocorticoid-associated adverse reactions. However, bicalutamide does have a small risk of hepatotoxicity and interstitial pneumonitis.

>>6606742
>for those who wish to preserve sex drive and function[47] and/or fertility,[48] as well as for those who desire more selective action with fewer side effects

And yet still:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicalutamide#Side_effects
>physical feminization and demasculinization in general (e.g., decreased muscle mass and strength and reduced body hair growth and density),[52][53] hot flashes, fatigue, weakness, depression, sexual dysfunction (including loss of libido and erectile dysfunction),[64] and decreased bone density and a resultant increased risk of fractures.[52] In addition, reduction of the weight of the prostate gland and seminal vesicles[65] (though not of the testes)[66] and, consequently, reversible hypospermia or aspermia (reduced or absent semen/ejaculate production) may occur.[67][68] However, in contrast, bicalutamide does not appear to adversely affect spermatogenesis, and thus may not necessarily abolish the capacity/potential for fertility.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flutamide#Transgender_hormone_therapy
>In men, a variety of side effects related to androgen deprivation may occur, the most common being gynecomastia and breast tenderness[18] and others including hot flashes, decreased muscle mass, decreased bone mass and an associated increased risk of fractures, depression,[19] and sexual dysfunction including reduced libido and erectile dysfunction.[20]

I hate to seem fussy but none of this looks "dickgirl" friendly :(.

>>6606742
enzalutamide sounds crazy. i don't know why antiandrogens are so often inducers of 3a4. (both spiro and cpa are, which may make first pass metabolism of oral estradiol even more extensive.)

ftr if you look at the pharmacokinetics, it seems estrone (e1) is potentially the more relevant estrogen if you take estradiol orally because of first pass metabolism (liver enzymes in the gut; can be inhibited by things like piperine in black pepper, bergamottin in grapefruit juice, but idk how desirable that is, especially long-term) e2 spikes seem to occur with sublingual delivery avoiding first pass metabolism, i don't know if they are advantageous (tho i certainly take them sublingually over oral)--estradiol certainly is the more potent estrogen at estrogen receptors. i used to take ces tho (a generic premarin somehow not from an animal source) and it is similarly pretty much all estrone--it was not ineffective as an estrogen when i was younger. i had never heard of it being less effective, just different dose equivalencies.

>>6606729
100mg is quite high. How long have you been on that ?


>>6606753
Honestly none of the existing drugs will give exactly the effects you want.

>>6576261
Are you talking about Cypro? Or something else.

I really don't want to take spiro, and Cypro sounds just as bad is there some magical third option I'm missing?

>>6606777
i cant count. it's been over 15 years since i started hrt, but i've been on many diff prescribed doses of cpa or spiro with 150mg of cpa probably being what i was on the longest

>>6606753
>but none of this looks "dickgirl" friendly
I take 100mg spiro "every other day" (I hate that dumb expression, /r/ing a synonim) and although my testosterone levels are "high" they are much lesser than men's...
(women max = 1ng/ml - my t = 1,6 ng/ml - men min = 3 ng/ml)

There's no magic, My dick works just fine.

>>6606777
ftr i'm not sure what is considered high. but i did have "undetectable" free t on bloodwork and like um i was effectively cryptorchid for a bit (they recede into the body on their own easily if small enough and the cords have atrophied enough, especially overnight)

this scared me though (i get a fair amount of pain, i would really like an inguinal orchi to be done with it. idk how much longer i would have to wait for srs, it seems like you needed to be within a short window of applying for it after it got covered again for it to even be a possibility where i live) i started taking cpa less to the point im not sure what my compliance would have made my actual effective daily dose.

i wish free t werent the only common blood test done. dht is obviously very relevant and i notice skin weirdness pretty quickly when my cpa is irregular most noticeably in acne and oily hair. the only real way to guess its activity is 3alpha androstanediol glucuronide bloodwork. dht production from 5alpha reductase in the skin and subcutaneous fat is obviously pretty powerful, and since it's so localised in its effects within the tissues that most impacts people's appearance i wish we put more into knowing how much was being produced.

tho there is also the factor of AR sensitivity. androgen receptors become hypersensitive after being antagonised after extended periods of time (this is the whole reason in people with AR related cancers, they often come back), so maybe that is why im so sensitive to irregular and reduced dosing.

>>6606809
>15 years since i started hrt
Wait, what?

Facebook groups is a better place for you than 4chan probably. Even if you're an oldfag, there's that moment where you just have to graduate of this shit.

>>6606845
>Facebook groups is a better place for you than 4chan probably. Even if you're an oldfag, there's that moment where you just have to graduate of this shit.

lol, haha. idk i think orchi would be the best way to graduate off, if endogenous androgens would hopefully be irrelevant--tho frankly after so much time of AR antagonism idk if they are. also worried it does not take much t to create clinically relevant levels of dht in localised tissues.

now facebook groups, idk if i recommend those in particular. some are pretty fucked, to the point frankly idek if there are any that aren't. i'd rather be anonymous that be able to be contacted by people who are frankly insane. fb groups are probably a factor in why i'm here not just as a perma-lurker maybe more typical of anyone else my age (32) who happens to be here

When does your body hair start thinning?

and how does it happen?

>>6597034
that's the same they've been forever--but that is a 1mg pill i'm p sure, the round 2mg are still seafoamy green. i think purple estrace samples were the first estrogen i even actually took, so they looked like that in 2001.

they really only look like that in canada, and arent the generic (or at the very least its a single company monopoly here, unless you've seen a very recent notice otherwise). the cheap generics are the ovals in the states, not the round ones here

>>6606894
months. tho i never really waited long enough for thick body hair to establish itself, it seems uncommon for people to still have much of it unless they let it get really thick where the hairs near the thickness of facial hair. if you are on a significant regular antiandrogen dose and epilate it, it will likely grow back only in wisps if at all

>>6606919
>significant regular antiandrogen dose
like 100mg Cypro?

In my country we don't have informed consent and getting on HRT the legal way can take several years. I'm turning 23 soon and I'm considering self-medding.

It's a bit tricky because I don't know how to get bloodwork done. Can I self-med without it or is it too dangerous?

>>6607107
I've been self-medding for a month and still have no idea how to get bloodwork done

I'll let you know when I fuck up

>>6606838
>"every other day" (I hate that dumb expression, /r/ing a synonim)
Bi-diurnally.

https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/22318/a-word-for-every-two-days

>>6607107
>In my country we don't have informed consent
Why won’t you simply visit a country where they do? Even virtually via an online clinic?

>>6589124

Thanks. You seem knowledgeable. Are you a doctor, pharmacist, ot chemist?

>>6607137

>Why won’t you simply visit a country where they do? Even virtually via an online clinic?

This is done?

>>6607137
I honestly didn't know that you could do that. I'm from Denmark btw.

>>6607182
Whatever I would say I am, you would be well advised not to believe it. It's still 4chan after all.

>>6607182
>Are you a doctor, pharmacist, ot chemist?
Just anon with many interests.

>This is done?
There are reputable Internet clinics in America and Europe with real doctors. I have never used one though and I don't remember names. But I'm going to use them eventually (for ailments unrelated to gender issues) because online medicine has so many advantages (in additon to cost advantages). It can't replace physical contact with doctor in every case but it becomes a norm for people living far away from cities.

>>6607213
>Just anon with many interests.

>>6607182
>Are you a doctor, pharmacist, ot chemist?

Sorry, I misattributed your question to myself. Forget my answer. LOL.

>increase my Estrogen dose to 6mg
>started noticing I'm losing hair
>read hair loss happens when you have elevated estrogen levels

Should I go back down to 4mg or is this normal?

>>6606742
It sounds like bica is way safer than Cypro/spiro so why would you ever take those? Am I missing something?

>>6607387
Price, availability and its selective effects?

>>6607387
>It sounds like bitch
Fixtured.

>>6607422
I don't understand what you mean by selective it seems like it accomplishes the same goal as Cypro/spiro through a different mechanism.

What does bicalumitude not do that spiro/cypro do?

>>6607526
Just going from what the person you replied to said, sex drive for example. Having it nuked by cypro is an amazing feeling.