Homosexuality and Christianity

Being a literal Christfag is a special kind of pain.

>>6127815
How so

>>6127793
>has homosexual attractions, and acts on them
>christian
well I'm sure that'll contradict with at least a few verses about not having sexual relations with the same sex.

On the other hand, people fuck men in dresses and still consider themselves completely 1000% straight, so one can fuck a man without a dress and consider himself a christian.

>>6127833
elaborate?

>>6127793
>Can a person who has homosexual attractions, and acts on them, Can he still be a Christian?

Yes. The better question is, should they want to be? Let's face it, religions are rarely if ever peaceful. They thrive on rejecting other people and acting superior because of their beliefs. It's clear the message most religions send is: Either join us and submit to our rules, or be ostracized. Who would want to be part of that? Especially when their rules are over 2000 years old or even older, that have little connection to the modern world. Rules that judge others for no good reason.

Christians in general had thrown a whole bunch of rules out the window because they realized they're simply impossible to keep and/or barbaric in modern times. That should teach you something about religion. They cherrypick things they like, and ignore things they don't.
What they fail to realize if they're looking for a collection of possitive messages, there are already websites for that - and there they won't even have to ignore half the text becuase it don't tell you to stone people or tell others they're going to hell if they don't do X and Y.

An intelligent person will just say, no thank you, then walk away from any religion.

>>6127850
I think sometimes that churches should be a little more consistent with their doctrine. the church should also speak out against hook up culture and Divorce if they are gonna talk about homosexuality.
stoning was old testament and was for the civil society of the Hebrews, so that not really necessary, but when it comes to doctrine, they should be more consistent

>>6127793
The Episcopals seem to think so; and while that's not all christians, it's still a significant group of them. Also read somewhere that earlier Christianity was accepting of same sex stuff and it changed in the middle ages, but I've forgotten the details. Maybe someone else can elaborate. Also there has been catholic based churches in Australia since the 1920s that are pro-LGBT.

>>6127850
nice bait

>>6127878
How do the Episcopal church justify their beliefs with the bible verses that say not to practice.

>>6127850
>then walk away from any religion.
You can't. Religion is part of being human. All cultures/societies have religion -that's basically Sociology 101. Observe how atheists behave... they preach, evangelize, study, and gather just like any other religion.

>>6127913
Lol

>>6127846
Christian opinions on homosexuality largely come from scripture which in general didn't paint it in a good light.
Taking these scriptures at face value would mean it's impossible to be gay and christian.

But most scriptures merely talk about sexual intercourse with the same sex, since the word homosexuality is about 150 years old.
One could thus state that these scriptures do not apply to celibate homosexuals, thus meaning one could be gay and christian, as long as one doesn't act on these gay urges.
(then again is celibacy really what one wants)

Lastly there are christian denominations that are completely open to practically anyone, from gays to trannies and everything else.
However, with these churches you gotta ask yourself if you're not just fooling yourself since you're at times practically no longer following the actual rules written down in the Bible.

It all boils down to how literal you take these rules, how you interpret them and if you're comfortable with what you're doing.

A homosexual Christian... Well it's clear to see where they set their priorities.

>>6127875
>I think sometimes that churches should be a little more consistent with their doctrine. the church should also speak out against hook up culture and Divorce if they are gonna talk about homosexuality.

True, but I'd rather they just shut the fuck up about everything and stopped being relevant to anyone's life.

>stoning was old testament and was for the civil society of the Hebrews, so that not really necessary
Oh but it is.

"For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished"

"Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill"

>>6127898
They probably don't, like every other practice most Christians blatantly ignore despite what the bible states.

>>6127898
IDK but they obviously do. You should talk to an Episcopal to get the right answers. I know part of it is that some of the stuff is from the old testiment which became irrelevant because of Christ in the new testiment.

>>6127913
>You can't. Religion is part of being human.
I disagree. Strong beliefs are part of being human. Religion is not. But the line is very thin between the two.
>All cultures/societies have religion -that's basically Sociology 101.
True
>Observe how atheists behave... they preach, evangelize, study, and gather just like any other religion.
Also true. It's a religion, where they believe in the all power of science, that it can explain everything, that only through it can the world be explained. They're basically worshipping science.
Hence I don't consider myself an Atheist.

>>6127932
The Law was for the Hebrew society, Not for Christian. A key word was fulfill in that last passage.

>>6127965
I wouldnt consider atheism a religion, because all atheism is, is just a lack of belief in god, but humanism marxism and nihilism are more like religions that Atheists practice

>>6128015
>I wouldnt consider atheism a religion, because all atheism is, is just a lack of belief in god

True, the term has been hijacked.

>>6127913
>>6127965

Atheism is not a religion. Atheism is literally the lack of belief in a God(s). Anyone who says otherwise is failing to understand the meaning of the word Atheist.

The atheist meme about science proving everything and preaching and shit came out of reddit. 99% of atheists you encounter you would never know unless you asked them if they're religious, and look to science help make sense of the world. But they don't worship science. There is a big distinction there.

>>6128045
Atheism is no more of a religion than theism is, well accept for atheism plus, they are deffinately a cult that worships PZ Myers

>>6127898
This is going to blow your mind, but not all Christians are literalists.

And although the bible is the word of God, it is more of a guideline than the ten commandments.

That's why there's serious churches (like those that have real theology and have a direct connection to the catholic/orthodox churches but are no longer in communion with each other) and other retarded sects which have pastors who literally believe in magic and then swindle you out of money and believe the end of the world is nigh and truly believe they can speak with God.

>>6128067
I dare you to walk up to a few atheists and talk to them about precognition or telekinesis. Watch as they laugh themselves silly for suggesting something so ridiculous that goes against science - aka their religion.

>>6128105
I can understand being liberal in the sense of understanding the bible is not a history book or a science book, but if your gonna take teaching unliterally then what do you take literally

>>6128067
>>6128070
Amen to that brother! Can I get an Amen???
Praise be to Science and xir almighty profit Dawkins; I'm feelin' euphoric!

>>6128149
No, it has nothing to do with being a "liberal" this is the way true Christianity has always been taught. The books that conform the christian bible via the old testament and the gospel were agreed upon and culled by councils of bishops and priests a few hundred years after the death and ascension of Jesus Christ. The holy book was available only in latin and greek and access and knowledge of the holy texts were limited for the believers by its interpretation via a highly educated priesthood.

It was not until after the protestant movement started and the whole bunch of retarded offshoots of crazy idiot literalists resulting from a a lack of control of a central church that your version of what you think is true christianity started....

Then you get al these retarded ofshoots like pentacostals, Baptists, anabaptists, mormons, jehova witnesses who have transformed christianity into some weird shit that you believe is true christianity but is more akin to islam

>>6128194
No a liberal interpretation of the bible means you don't take every word litterally

example would be how Adam and Eve are a metephor for our sinful nature, or Noahs Flood is a metaphor for the salvation of the elect through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ.
I hold a liberal view in some places because the bible has parts that are not supposed to be taken literally.

>>6128105
>>6128194
>This is going to blow your mind, but not all Christians are literalists.
>And although the bible is the word of God, it is more of a guideline than the ten commandments.

You would've been burned for that only 400 years ago.

>>6128132

>Science is a religion
>Believes in telekinesis

Please no. It's not that it goes against science, it's that it goes against common sense.

>>6128132

Let's apply your logic.
Walk up to an atheist and tell them the dog they are walking isn't actually an animal at all, it's a demon that shapeshifts into it's current form and slowly sucks the life out of everything around it. Watch them laugh at you as it goes against science - aka your religion.

Do you see how retarded that sounds?

>>6128229
>implying I would have reached adulthood 400 years ago.

>>6128314
>Please no. It's not that it goes against science, it's that it goes against common sense.
The problem with that, is that common sense constantly changes depending on the century you're in. It's a moving goalpost. A 100 years ago it was against common sense that some people would walk on the moon. Or that one day machines would talk to us. There's much we don't know yet. We don't even know what dark energy or dark matter are, yet together they make like 95% of the universe. I find it foolish to say X or Y can't happen when we're just getting into a whole new world of quantum mechanics among other things.

>>6128326
A demon is a religious symbol. Telekinesis is not.

>>6128510
Oh right. We're fags. Touché my friend.

>>6127793
I don't see why beeing Gay makes you an Different Person

>>6128581

So that doesn't address how science is a religion. Sure "common sense" changes. But science is ever changing based on what we know. Religion is based on belief, science is based on observation. Two very different things.

As far as the demon thing you're missing the point. Instead of demon let's say a tiny purple elephant wearing a dog costume.

>>6127793
No...
>Leviticus 18:22
>Leviticus current:year-3
>Corinthians 6:9-10
>Romans 1:26-28
If you really want to be retarded and follow a religion, choose Hinduism or something.

>>6128652
You Don't, elaborate.

>>6128813
That sounds about right.

Yes. Homosexuality as it's currently perceived didn't exist back then. What the bible refers to was men having sex with young boys. A monogamous gay relationship based in love is compatable with Christianity IMO.

>>6128813
Gays cant be hindu

>>6128871
you got verses or context or something, greek translations acceptable if the greek word meant young boy or something. im willing to hear it

>>6127793
CAN a gay person believe in Christianity? Sure. Do I think it's reasonable to do so? Not at all.

>>6128916
Elaborate pls

>>6128882
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pederasty
Pederasty was the only form of homosexuality that occurred openly in the ancient world which leads some people to believe that since the bible only really refers to these types of relationships when referring to homosexuality.
Lev 18:21 (lev 18:22 is against homosexuality) states that you should not give your children to be sacrificed to molek. The rape of small boys was also part of molek worship which is why these two verses are written one after the other.
There is also a lot of good arguments in this essay:
https://www.gaychristian.net/justins_view.php

>>6128731
>So that doesn't address how science is a religion.

In theory it's not, in practice it kinda is, even though it shouldn't be. Science does have its own prophets (people who can't ever be wrong or criticised), there are teachings that cannot be questioned etc. If somebody tries to publish a paper that goes against the mainstream of science, they are immediately ridiculed, and ostracized, completely shutting them out of scientific society. It has been that was for centuries now. Doesn't that raise your suspicion?

That said, science is extremely useful and I'm not against it. I'm against blind faith and ostrich politics that seems to permeate the scientific community.

>>6128955
Humanism is a religion,

>>6128581
Not only a fag, but a femme faggot who bottoms exclusively and is almost 100% sure I'm transgender. Lol.

But one day I will transition, and become a conservative christian and marry a multi millionaire televangelist and I'll peg him every day!

>>6128947
Unless you have the hebrew word proving that it meant boy and not man, your not really going on much. It say in English, if a man lies with another man.

>>6127793
I don't think you can... i mean "christians" do believe on the bible, so... unless you take castity road, you'll always be asked to repent of your sins, otherwise you'll burn in hell...

but... if there is a God... why wouldn't he understand your sincere love? why would he punish you for not overcoming tests that others are not subjected to? (he made you that way) anyway, christians won't heard this, they will just say whatever the bible says...

if you still wanna believe in a God.... why don't you try to find him? maybe he doesn't exists.... or maybe he is not what most of humans think he is...

>>6128938
>Elaborate pls
I've had a boyfriend who is Christian, so it definitely happens. I don't think it's reasonable because the text in the bible is very anti-LGBT. Why would you put faith in a book that justifies so much hate against you? It makes no sense.

Of course there are people who will try to pick around the verses that they disagree with or apply their own interpretations to those verses. They are just trying to ignore the elephant in the room though.

>>6128994
Im straight, but I was curious to get an opinion on what people felt about it. I see in the News about Gay members in the clergy of one church and stuff, so i thought this board would be a good place for a convo. getting good info so far

>>6128872
Why not? It's recognised as part of natural sexual experience.
Just because India doesn't like gays, doesn't mean Hinduism doesn't.

>>6129024
No its not that. Hindus cant eat meat

>>6128981
My general point is that the only homosexual relations at the time weren't two guys getting married, buying a house and adopting some kids, it was relationships based in lust rather than love. Tax collectors are also condemned in the bible because the tax collectors of the time were often corrupt and they took more money than they should have. However Christians don't hate the IRS because modern tax collectors aren't immoral. The same argument can be applied to homosexuality since most homosexual relationships nowadays are loving monogamous relationships rather than just based in lust.

>>6129040
Verse on the tax collectors pls? the jews hated tax collectors because they were paying them to romans but jesus paid his taxes and told his followers to give to ceaser what is ceasers

Here is a verse i got for you

For because of this you also pay taxes, for rulers are servants of God, devoting themselves to this very thing. Render to all what is due them: tax to whom tax is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honor to whom honor.

>>6129064
Mark 2:16-17
Jesus considers the tax collectors as sinners.
Luke 3:12-13
Jesus tells the tax collectors not to collect more that they should.

>>6128975
Sigh. I don't have such grandiose dreams. I just wish to find love. I could be homeless and be the happiest person on the planet if it was with someone I cared for. I'm not a very materialistic person.

>>6129040
>My general point is that the only homosexual relations at the time weren't two guys getting married, buying a house and adopting some kids, it was relationships based in lust rather than love.
Now that is just flat out wrong. I know for a fact in Rome gay people could get married, and did so. Love is not a 21th century invention.

>>6129139
Stopping people from stealing is a pretty good Christian concept

>>6129147
Those marriages (except in the case of emperors) had no legal standing. Bottoms were also looked down upon unlike tops because they were
perceived an feminine. The bottomed were often slaves, prostitues, or young boys.

>>6129147

you seem to be a good person... i really hope you find what you seek...

what grants that the bible is the word of God? wouldn't he understand your love? why would he get mad at you because of honest love?

if christianity is not the way for you, please, don't be afraid, find God your way, and do not retreat of your identity, nor your seek for love

>>6129147
>I know for a fact in Rome gay people could get married, and did so. Love is not a 21th century invention.
That doesn't jell with stuff I've read. Most of the same sex couplings were older men + teenage boy lover relationships, not arrangements equivalent to marriage. Pretty sure same sex relations were looked down upon and often were considered a vice that could get out of hand for the person(s) involved. If you were a bottom, you were always looked down on... basically equivalent to a woman. Also, the anti-gay sentiments didn't start with Christians and Jews in western society. They started with the Greeks and Romans. Look up Stoicism. The followers of that philosophy started the whole "sex should be in the missionary position for procreation purposes only" that is usually attributed to Christians.

>>6127922
>It all boils down to how literal you take these rules, how you interpret them and if you're comfortable with what you're doing.
Nice cop out, at least you understand and don't act on it, but christians see it as a fetish because it's lustful sex, married and sex for procreation is the only healthy lust free sex.

>>6129627
>but christians see it as a fetish because it's lustful sex
This was merely from the perspective of the homo who wishes to reconcile his faith with his sexuality.

I did not factor in the opinion of dogshit christian pedophiles, because peasants should not be allowed to have an opinion in the first place.

>>6129667
>pedophiles, because peasants should not be allowed to have an opinion in the first place.
That is some emotional ignorance. pedophile? Peasant? lol.
>homo who wishes to reconcile his faith with his sexuality.
>I did not factor in the opinion of a christian
It's a shame you can't be a christian in your own contradicting blasphemous way.

>>6129693
vikings where known to rape male children from their defeated enemies... so they are (historically) not peasents

>>6129693
I believe homosexuality is a transgression against Gods will, but so is Divorce, hook up culture, etc. it does seem like alot of people will pick one sin and not focus on the others.

>>6129693
>emotional ignorance
I believe it's called a meme around here.
>It's a shame you can't be a christian in your own contradicting blasphemous way.
I just came here to answer OP's question, not because of my own religious views which are however surprisingly extreme for someone who does not adhere to religion in the first place.

Now about you.
Why are you here?

>>6129758
>not because of my own religious views which are however surprisingly extreme for someone who does not adhere to religion in the first place.
You're trying to be a gay christian, that's lustful fetishism.

>Now about you.
>Why are you here?
You're really that angry that called your cop out?

>>6129807
>You're trying to be a gay christian
I'm not a christian.
I just answered OP's question in a way that does not represent my views.

But you would have known if you read my posts.

>>6129837
>I'm not a christian.
Than why did you post
>This was merely from the perspective of the homo who wishes to reconcile his faith with his sexuality.

>>6129874
OP here, im not gay, i just wanted to hear some opinion.

>>6129874
>Than why did you post
>because people can't write from another perspective

>>6129897
>the perspective of the homo who wishes to reconcile his faith with his sexuality.
>reconcile his faith with his sexuality.
Can you blame me? that's kind of misleading.

>>6129896
There's no 'opinions' on this, religion isn't something to bend to your life style, it's either wrong or not, you don't need to christian.

>>6129909
>Can you blame me?
Yes. I didn't mention anywhere it was about me.