Borderline vs trans?

>>5793014
They are either borderline or they have a mother that is, that's from my personal experience.

>>5793014
Most people diagnosed with borederline are female by far. It is caused by abuse. Being trans causes the the symptoms not the other way around.

>>5793393
So a trans person in an abusive environment will be more likely to develop borderline tendencies? Why?

>>5793393
Lol no. Its caused my narcissistic female attention disorder. They self destruct when no one gives them attention

>>5793411
No more like borderline is caused by trauma. Females develop borderline from trauma at a much higher rate than males. mtf are female. Being trans is traumatic. so there you go.

>>5793014
I suppose it's a possibility. There have been cases where people thought they were trans and later realized it was actually related to childhood trauma, and trauma also causes BPD.
That said, I'm trans and don't have BPD.

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>>5793014
>MFW femgen
>MFW use moans
>MFW BPD
Welp, never said I was sane

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>be ftm
>have several bpd symptoms, very likely but not confirmed
>never tell anyone, never ask them to confirm or deny my paranoias, don't show more emotion than normal externally
>"extreme female brain"
i want off this ride

OP. The objective of the diagnosis isn't to define and label whatever mechanisms are going on in the patient. It's to figure out what treatment or treatments are most likely to work, based on what has worked in the past on commonalities found in previous patient groups.

It's a part of the reason why so many of the older protocols required loads of psych screening before hormones/transitioning.

>>5793014
>Seeing how borderline have unstable identities and are easily persuaded by external influence, is it enough to convince people that they are trans?

yeah for sure, I used to have a friend that had BPD and somehow convinced themselves that they were trans after I had come out to them as trans myself. They didn't demonstrate any signs of gender dysphoria and it kind of annoyed me that I had gone through extreme discomfort with my body and socialization my whole life and they just decided that they were really a woman after a short conversation with me.

>>5795863
OP here. My point wasn't labeling, but finding a way to deal with the system. I have BPD and have found it very difficult to deal with professionals because nobody believes a borderline. I am trans and lived in my prefered gender through childhood but it will be practically impossible for me to get access to hormone treatment as long as I am diagnosed with BPD and show symptoms of the disorder. I was hoping other people had experience with the condition and could tell their stories.

>>5793875
Ive met exactly 1 guy in my life who could be described as legitimately 'fem'
He was utterly fucking insane but not in a cool way, just an irritating way where you couldnt have a meaningful or genuine interaction with them

>>5793014
Well, I'm diagnosed bipolar, borderline and trans all at once.
This part of the medical field is just a pathetic joke really. Psychiatrists don't know shit about their work, let alone psychologists.

>>5795936
Except those three tend to be interconnected

>>5795940
Except they're not. Bipolar isn't even a personality disorder.
They're easily confused with eachother, but not interconnected.

>>5795944
And you deduced this from your extensive knowledge of psychiatry?

>>5795963
No, after 10 years of nonstop treatment I'm still blissfully oblivious of the serious mental issues I have and never read up on the meds and diagnoses I've got and also never experienced how fucking dumb and unsuccessful psychiatric treatment really is. I entirely lack any ability to reflect on my social interactions.
I've also never been locked up with other legit borderline people and had to endure them 24/7.

Quit talking outa your ass.

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>>5795973
I sense sarcasm. How about you present your sources and arguments rather than using the 'muh experiences' defence, especially when those experiences are from being mentally unstable. You say they get confused with each other. Do you have a source?

>>5795983
http://www.currentpsychiatry.com/home/article/borderline-bipolar-or-both-frame-your-diagnosis-on-the-patient-history/dba195c8fc9a30e5fd919df7c8f79676.html

Literally first result on google. And how the fuck do you expect me to post 10 years of experience and personal research.
You already made obvious you have no clue so why am I in the position to post evidence to win an argument. How about you post a link that claims they're interconnected?

Always the same with mental disorders, you don't have it, you don't know it so don't act like you do.

>>5796007
Your article discusses how the two conditions can be mistaken for each other and therefore misdiagnosed, not that they're not interconnected.

You should calm yourself.

>>5796082
I already said one is a personality disorder, the other isnt. Go read up wikipedia on those. Now where's your link?

>>5796088
>I already said one is a personality disorder, the other isnt.
That doesn't mean they're not interconnected. And the fact that they're 'confused' with each other can also mean that therapists focus too much on categories.
You say that you're diagnosed trans, borderline and bipolar. How do you see yourself? Do you agree with them?

>>5796119
Trans can't even be diagnosed unless you say you are and then shrinks just make sure it's not the other illnesses fooling you into believing you are. I'm also bipolar which is what I initially sought help for way back in my teens but I'm definitely not borderline.
My bipolar went from rapid cycling to ultradian cycling on HRT, which is kinda nice too. Those fast cycles make me function better.

>>5796158
How do you know you're bipolar and not borderline?

>>5796175
Because I got extremely cycling moods and am not neurotic with people. I've got no trouble dealing with being social and keeping my self-control.
Do I really gotta explain two well known disorders to you?

>>5796188
A lot of borderline people are oblivious to their own behaviour. No need to be catty.

I think that the borderline people who get a sex change to solve their problems are usually expecting said sex change to solve all their problems.

They read stories about how trans people were miserable before transitioning and are happy now and think that transitioning is the one "fix" they need to be a happy person, because borderline people look for easy and instant solutions.

I think as long as you have a realistic idea of sex change (it won't solve all your mental issues, in fact it's likely to create more), and you still feel that it's what you need, then you won't regret it later.

>>5796192
>A lot of borderline people are oblivious to their own behaviour.
And why should I take lightly being accused of that. Sounds like an insult to me cause I'm not suffering from it. One I'm frankly fucking tired of hearing because people actually thing bipolar and borderline are the same so for some reason it's okay to put me equal to people with a totally repulsive personality.

>>5796220
>to people with a totally repulsive personality.
Are all borderlines the same now?
>Sounds like an insult to me cause I'm not suffering from it
You have been diagnosed with it, and it's very typical to deny it. From the facts you've presented it is a lot more likely that you are borderline than that you're not.

Why do you find borderlines repulsive?

>>5796229
I've also been diagnosed with alcoholism that I don't have, migraine that I don't have and eating disorders that I don't have, so I can't really give all my diagnoses much credit. You're still implying I'm too daft to reflect on myself so excuse me if I'm pretty pissed at you.

I find borderline people repulsive cause they make others eat shit, constantly have to draw attention, frequently blame others and always cause a scene when they can. And ontop people think I'm like that when I say I'm bipolar, because that's a legit warning I gotta give in some cases where I have prolonged contact to people.

>>5796247
Why have you received so many diagnosis?

>I find borderline people repulsive cause they make others eat shit, constantly have to draw attention, frequently blame others and always cause a scene when they can
How many borderlines have you met?


>And ontop people think I'm like that when I say I'm bipolar, because that's a legit warning I gotta give in some cases where I have prolonged contact to people.
If you have to give a warning, isn't that an indicator that you behave in a way that causes a scene and draws attention, something you just accused borderlines of?

>>5796261
>Why have you received so many diagnosis?
Because when depressions get bad I grab a beer or 5, which happened like once every couple of months, because I'm slightly underweight and antidepressants that also function as apetite killers make me having issues eating, what a surprise, and because I do have migraine but in a form that doesn't cause me any pain or distress so whatever.

>How many borderlines have you met?
5 and by proxy 6, the 6th was a girl a good friend of mine was in a relationship with and it was so taxing on him, we kinda quit meeting up because for some reason he tried to put up with that crap and it made him quite a wreck in return and had to spend every damn weekend trying to fix his relationship again.

>>5796261
>If you have to give a warning, isn't that an indicator that you behave in a way that causes a scene and draws attention, something you just accused borderlines of?
It's more a warning that I can appear quite schizophrenic and sometimes don't remember things I said while claiming the opposite. As I said, since HRT I cycle extremely fast, and so do my opinions on some matters so I ask people to take lightly if I contradict myself.

>>5796204
This sounds very true. The best strategy would then be to discuss all parts of transitioning and do so for a long time period, to make sure it is not a passing 'fix' the person is attempting.

The only thing that could really damage a borderline would be hormone treatment, and the most damaging thing that could be done to a trans person is to deny them transitioning in form of hormones but as long as a proper analysis takes place it can minimize damage.

>>5796289
Why did this behaviour land you diagnosis? That's not enough to fill any of the criteria. Are you telling the whole truth?


>sometimes don't remember things I said while claiming the opposite. As I said, since HRT I cycle extremely fast, and so do my opinions on some matters so I ask people to take lightly if I contradict myself.
This is a symptom of BPD

>>5796312
>Why did this behaviour land you diagnosis?
Guess where my opinion on shrinks comes from. I said I feel like shit so I grabbed some alcohol and poof, diagnosed as abusing alcohol.

>This is a symptom of BPD
Right, because having a different view on things during depression and mania is totally out of the ordinary. You sound like you don't even know what either states of mind are.

>>5796324
>I said I feel like shit so I grabbed some alcohol and poof, diagnosed as abusing alcohol.
Yes. self-medicating with alcohol is a sign of substance abuse. Just because it only happens during depressions doesn't mean you don't have a problem.

>Right, because having a different view on things during depression and mania is totally out of the ordinary
To not remember that you said something opposite is not a common sign in bipolar people. It is however very common in BPD people to contradict themselves in that manner.

>>5796365
Try having clinical depression, recover from it and tell me your view on just about everything wasn't extremely warped.
Protip: not happening.

>>5796390
That's not the same thing, tho

>>5796454
In your mind I'm borderline, so obviously its not.
I'm fucking tired of this, go fuck a cactus.

>>5796486
>go fuck a cactus.
Fun times

Well, you don't sound like bipolar is your only problem, but why do you care what I think? My assumption comes from the fact that you've been diagnosed in the past and that everything you're doing and saying right now says BPD rather than bipolar.

>>5796535
>but why do you care what I think?
Because this same limbo between bipolar and borderline and people being unsure what to think of me denied me getting HRT for 3 years all while not getting treatment for anything else either.
I'm sick and tired of people denying me any and all credibility and suggest I get yet another treatment that'll be as pointless as the countless ones I had before. So naturally I easily lose my shit these days.
I've lost 40k so far paying for actual treatment and surgeries, and they're still argueing I'm too depressed for HRT after all the time I've been self medding. Doesn't matter anymore as some pills for 30 euros a month is hardly worth fighting over but the huge grudge on the whole psychological sector that it left me with will never go. If there was ever someone I wanted to see burn in hell it would've been my history of shrinks.

>>5796598
Ok. Understanding issues. But why are you taking it out here? None of those things will change with you aggroing here, and none of your points have been directed to the thread subject.

>>5796616
My initial post was just suggesting it doesn't matter what retards diagnose people with cause it's right next to them tossing a dice.
Ontop of that I've never seen a borderline person get proper treatment, so what exactly is the point of differing between trans and bipolar as in OP in the first place? Best thing you can do in any case is taking the path of least resistance and NOT get diagnosed, besides maybe that you're trans.

>>5796158
>My bipolar went from rapid cycling to ultradian cycling
>Those fast cycles make me function better.
Best joke 2016

>>5796675
Difference between being suicidal for months and being suicidal for half a day/a few days. How's it not obvious?

I'm FtM and borderline. I've been "out" as FtM since I was 14-15, though, and I'm 21 now. I don't think that's changing any time soon.

>>5796645
>Ontop of that I've never seen a borderline person get proper treatment
You've met 6 of them....
>so what exactly is the point of differing between trans and bipolar as in OP in the first place?
Trans and BPD
>Best thing you can do in any case is taking the path of least resistance and NOT get diagnosed, besides maybe that you're trans.
I'm >>5795921

>>5796692
How long have you had the BPD diagnoses?

>>5796714
Since I was 18. My therapist suspected it before then, but, didn't want to "officially" dx me until I turned 18.

>>5796701
>Trans and BPD
I meant that, sorry.

>You've met 6 of them....
And I've also said I found them repulsive. They're nice people until you have to deal with them. So there's an obvious lack of treatment.

>>5796726
>So there's an obvious lack of treatment.
Why aren't they getting treatment?

>>5796722
That sounds very reasonable. It can easily be mistaken for typical teenage behaviour so he/she made a wise decision. Sorry about your diagnosis, tho. It sucks to be borderline.

>>5796742
Well, personality disorders often aren't diagnosed in minors because the personality is still forming then. Only when the behaviors carry onto adulthood is a diagnosis made.

It is argued that an early diagnosis can help you get earlier treatment and help you be less fucked up later in life, which is true. It's kind of a mixed bag.

I used to be super torn up about it, about how I thought this meant I was just an uncurable person with a bad personality. DBT works wonders, though. I'm doing a lot better now than when I was. It won't ever fully leave me(along with my other weird brain shit), but, at least I can be helped along the way.

>>5796742
>Why aren't they getting treatment?
I'm sure they are, some if them I was even in the psychiatry with but as I said in my initial statement, treatment for significant issues is mockingly bad to this day. If I concerned myself with politics more I'd say mentally ill people are a jew's wet dream. Inefficient treatments are the most profitable afterall and that's all I've ever seen with people who didn't just have minor reactive depressions caused by a "traumatic" breakup or something.

>>5796764
Yes. I can relate to the dilemma. If diagnosed earlier I would probably be in a better condition today. DBT makes a very big difference with the right therapist. It literally changed me from psycho mode to a functionable human being. Too bad it needs to be continuous. The danger of relapsing as a BP is very big.

>>5796777
As someone who's been forced through the mental healthcare system since a young age, I couldn't agree more. Most psychs are "here take your SSRIs and get out" even when it cam be extremely dangerous to give those out to certain people. It's fucking embarrassing how many years it can take to get a diagnosis for certain things.

And honestly, it borders on criminality how easily misdiagnosed bipolar and BPD is. They're very different disorders with very different causes and treatments that work for then. People with BPD are commonly given potentially toxic medications and being denied the psychotherapy they need because some doctor was too much of an idiot to see the difference between "mood swings with triggers" and "mood swings that just happen."

While I get it's hard to calmly and accurately describe your symptoms to a doctor, some of these fucks should really know better.

>>5796777
Paranoia is another sign of BPD and not necessarily a trait in bipolars.

>>5796803
Thanks, at least someone here who made that experience. By now I have half a pharmacy at home cause those people hand out meds like candy going eh, nothing big can really happy, try this and this.´and this and see if anything works. Wouldn't be surprised if this pharma rollercoaster screwed me up a lot more.

>>5796804
Dude, whatever. 10 years are a real long time to make proper judgements.

Since there seems to be some disagreement here, let's break it down.
>Mood swings in people with BPD cycle much more quickly, think a few times a day. The moods of a person with BPD are also dependent on their environment and what's going on in the life of the person at the moment.

>Bipolar mood swings are much longer lasting than BPD mood swings and have no trigger. They just happen.

>People with rapid cycling bipolar may cycle more quickly than a "normal" bipolar person, but, still not as fast as someone with BPD. The BPD mood swings are also still a reaction to something while the bipolar ones are not.

BPD is also characterized by a fear of abandonment, unstable sense of self, and paranoia. Bipolar is characterized by longer lasting episodes of depression and mania.
They aren't the same thing, not by a long shot.

BPD is also a personality disorder and theorized to be caused by trauma and external influences. Bipolar disorder is a mood disorder.

>>5796856
>Mood swings in people with BPD cycle much more quickly
It's a reactionary behaviour pattern, not a cycle. BPD needs a trigger to set off mood swings.

>>5796870
That's what I meant, sorry for the awful wording. I haven't been awake very long.

>>5796841
You make me glad I'm not a burgerfag

>>5796877
I'm german though. In the US I'd sure as hell have done informed consent. In that regard I'm pretty jelly.

>>5796895
I didn't know they had that tendency in Germany :/

>>5793014
There were cases when people have been misdiagnosed as trans, but detransitioned and turned got diagnosed with BPD, I don't think there are any official statistics. There are no official statistics on misdiagnosis at all as far as I know, especially considering that detransition or regret might not necessarily need a wrong diagnosis

There were also cases when people diagnosed with BPD transitioned successfully and stayed in their target gender so I think it's fair to assume they were not misdiagnosed

>How do you know for sure?
I don't think you ever do

If you have classical knew since 3 kinda GD it's more convincing; if you suddenly developed gender dysphoria after discovering transition and only had a vague discomfort/sense of not fitting in before then I say it's more likely to be your BPD speaking
If you're anywhere inbetween like most people then you're shit out of luck


>>5796204
The only case I'v known personally had a pretty realistic view at the time so... it's definitely a warning sign (even if you're legit trans without BPD, you're just gonna end up disappointed), but not explicitly doing so won't necessarily protect you I guess
>anegdotal evidence

It's possible to expect transition to fix your issues and both not realize it and not seem like it I guess, if it's more of a subconscious blaming things on GD thing

>>5796912
Well, you're not really diagnosed as trans.

>>5796923
shit choice of words but you should get what i mean

>>5793963
There are dudes who get bpd too, and symptoms of bpd are common to other issues. Chill the fuck out bro.

>>5796912
>How do you know for sure?
>I don't think you ever do
This is kind of my problem. I know how I feel about my gender and I have always felt this way but my experience with BPD leaves me insecure about all parts of myself including gender. When identity is so unstable as it is under BPD is there any way to determine what decisions to make in lrelation to these things?

KILL YOURSELVES EVIL CUNTS

>>5796942
Honestly, my relationship to my gender and BPD has been "am I really this or am I just a big faker" and not "I'm going to change what I am every time something happens to me."

Like, it's more that I need identity anchors and less my identity is constantly changing.

>>5797029
I can relate to this. I'm not saying I'm doubting being trans. It's more that I'm worried about the consequenses of transitioning. Being a dyke is completely acceptable but with me being BPD people might not accept the trans thing or think it's just a result of the disorder rather than a real condition. And with transitioning leaving me in an even more vunerable situation than the one I'm in at the moment, should I take the plunge? Is it worth it? And how do I persuade a shrink to give the ok for hormone treatment? It seems completely out of reach, and the longer I wait the worse it gets.

>>5797115
I think my doubt have come from the social stigma more than anything. Like, "you're borderline so you can't really be trans" even if it has been the one stable part of my identity for 5-6 years now.

I'm in the same boat re:transitioning now, though. It's been hard trying to convince people to prescribe me HRT.

>>5797155
Well fuck. Any advice on how to get diagnosed and get hrt? I don't want to resort to black market test. That stuff can mess you up bad.

>>5793393
Big fat bullshit. It can be caused by a variety of factors, abuse is common, but abandonment or emotional neglect is also common, not to mention genetic presdisposition. Also, borderliners tend to have severe identity fluctuation issues, so identifying as a certain gender constantly doesn't fit them at all. I have only ever met 1 person who might be diagnosed with BPD who might also have gender identity disorder, and in this case both diagnoses were problematic because she might also have an IQ below 80.

>>5797173
>I have only ever met 1 person who might be diagnosed with BPD who might also have gender identity disorder, and in this case both diagnoses were problematic because she might also have an IQ below 80.
Storytime?

>>5797177
Nah. patient confidelity and all that. No good story anyway, I only saw her professionally.

>>5797186
>I only saw her professionally.
Something tells me you're not a very professional person.

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>>5797209
>shrink
>professional

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>psychiatry talks on 4chan

>>5795923
If it makes things any better though, I'm reasonably well functioning in society an productive. Also worry about what people think so I'd try not to be an ass around those that aced my idiosyncrasies.

Still doesn't change the fact I'm swallowing moans despite not actually wanting to be a girl and doing so without a script.

>>5796942
>there any way to determine what decisions to make in lrelation to these things?

Not really. Psych is something like throwing baseballs in the dark, and making adjustments to your throw by the sound they make.

But no matter what the issue is, some stuff doesn't change. You need first and foremost, not to hurt yourself. And regardless of the specifics of your gender and sexual preferences you still need the fundamentals. You need a roof over your head, A job or some sort of income. Stable family and friends.

>>5796324
i have bpd and like
you definitely have it bad