If we get one boy. And place him into the jungle. He will never

Humans are pack animals, they don't live in isolation in the jungle. They live in communities in the jungle.

Transvestites/transexuals/third gender people etc. have existed in ancient hunter-gather tribes: http://healthland.time.com/2013/10/04/transgender-showed-evolutionary-benefits-in-ancestral-societies/

They usually existed as mystics and healers. That was their ancient role.

I don't get what you're even trying to prove.

>>5677111
dude I'm not pointing on HUMANS ARE SOCIAL HURR DURR.
I'm pointing that all trans are behaving as a other gender only cause they have something to refer. If there is no reference as "other" gender. We wouldn't have any trans people.
>>5677123
I'm trying to prove that trans just a frauds. I don't know why though. Maybe I'm a bit of a shit inside.

>>5677144
You are right tho. And we can still play off the humans are social animals angle as well.
If people understood that humans are blank slates that do not own ideas but share ideas between them we would be always able to accept any thought or idea that came into our heads.
Instead people seem to think that they are the originator of the idea instead of the conduit. Now you can either choose to express the idea or accept it as just another fish in the ocean.

>>5677144
>Maybe I'm a bit of a shit inside
Sounds about right, yeah

>>5677144

That's like arguing that language is bullshit because HURR DUUR IF WE LIVED ALONE WE'D NEVER NEED TO TALK HUUUR.

Please read this: http://www.logicallyfallacious.com/index.php/logical-fallacies/30-appeal-to-extremes

In fact, please read more period.

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>>5677166
Maybe, but u still didn't prove me wrong

>>5677144
>If there is no reference as "other" gender. We wouldn't have any trans people.

Well of course. If we isolated a human from his or her peers they wouldn't know what gender is nor would they really know the differences between males and females, but that would be a really shitty thing to do to a person wouldn't it? And maybe If we were all hermaphroditic or androgynous blobs it's likely there wouldn't be any trans people because there is no other gender, but humans just don't work that way.

>>5677178
But language is shit. Just like Burroughs said, language is a virus.
A far better way of communication would be like that of octopuses that can control their skin and change color to signal to others far more to the point than humans ever can. Nothing comes out of language but disagreement because we can never really be on point enough for us to understand one another.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWxr8oIkOdU

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>>5677178
Page is not loading.

Also I don't see how trans people are possible if you don't have any sort of social behaviour from the start. I know people might want to suck dicks or trying to "think" that they can produce babies cause of some sort of cells-biology things. I don't know how it works on that level. But overall what I see from the trans "am I passable? I want to be QT LIL GURL" and stuff like this that has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with biology. They just seeking attention and/or want to be "less hard" gender than they are.

>>5677182
Well yeah. I know what you are saying. I'm just pointing that trans are not the actual THING. They just mentally ill people. More mentally ill then we - gays. Although our sexual orientation have something to do with our biology and cells ona same level as mental shit.

>>5677069
This sounds like the tired old "people in the third world don't have depression because they have REAL problems" meme. Evidence points to gender dysphoria being neurological, so it will happen regardless of the environment they live in. They might lack the words to describe it - but someone growing up in isolation would also lack words to describe a broken arm or the common cold.

>>5677161
Humans are MOSTLY a blank slate. But we're born with certain instincts. And gender is one of those instincts that's hard-coded into the brain structure.

>>5677203
They might not have a clear idea of what the other gender is like, but they'd still feel that there was something wrong with the body and want to change it.

>>5677211
If you put a gay boy in the jungle would he be gay? I mean, there is no such shit as a sexuality in jungle where all he can do is survive.

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>>5677182
>>5677211
>>5677069

Uh, body dysmorphic disorders and hormonal abnormalities won't disappear with your deprivation or social engineering.

Maybe if you could come up with some more sensible claim than your "all medicine is a jew lie" spiel, people might take you seriously.

>>5677772
I think the OP is implying that the "born this way" notion is incorrect, he is also implying that it's early socialization that regulates sexuality and identity.

>>5677069
>If we get one boy. And place him into the jungle. He will never be TRANS.

Feral children grow up with all sorts of problems and would probably never have the capacity to articulate or understand any trans issues if they have them.

>>5677211
Not sure what you're trying to say here with 'trans not being the actual THING'. Neurology is an extension of our biology and with trannies, their condition is intense, consistent and incurable. If there's no biological cause then they're not really mentally ill.

Also, gays do not have anything wrong with their "cells". The phenomenon that cause their homosexuality is entirely neurological. Nearly all of them are physically healthy and their bodies do not differ much from the average man or woman.

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>>5677744
You still will be gay. yous till will want suck dicks and have boners over dudes. Nature already working this way with animals.
>>5677772
I really can't understand that body disforia thing. In my childhood I wanted to be a badass beautiful girl. But only cause I knew that the life of QT girl was a LOT more easier. You get all the goodies and your life suddenly becoming less painful.
years after I wanted only turn into girl (magically) only cause I falled with Straight guys and I wanted them so much I couldn't bare the fact they rejecting my love and admiring only cause I has penis. Right now I don't want to be girl at all. Cause I like myself, I like having muscles and a bit of brutality in my look. I want to contain my guy-essence no matter how hard this life is.

And in my opinion when I see trans people here - they are mostly shitface boys being egoistic cowards, Who think that being a QT gurl will solve all their problems cause it is REALLY as it is - if you QT girl you get all the goodies and life becoming very easy.

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>>5677813
What are the "trans issues"? Being passable? Being little demanding piece of shit in a qt dress and have nice boobitty bobly bop titties? Blaming parents who rasing you that they are can't UNDERSTAND his son and buy him expensive drugs only cause he suddenly realized that he is a girl? Being aggressive to all people around cause nothing going his way?
All that I see here from trans threads and questions happens to be only material shit and shit "how else can I lie to whole world around me and deceive everyone so they would stop being aggressive and demanding to me. i don't want to fill social expectations by being a hard working masculine alpha male. I want to be QT GIRL and do nothing but making QT faces and suck some shweet dicks and be covered with tons of money in return of my NATURAL BEAUTY AND CUTENESS WINK"

>>5677948
Did you take your medicine? Does your handler know you're online?

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>>5677954
Why doe.

>>5677203
>But overall what I see from the trans "am I passable? I want to be QT LIL GURL" and stuff like this that has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with biology.

So if a cis woman wants to look nice and not stand out as overly masculine, is that also a mental illness?

>>5677789
Which is one hell of a neurology and endo trutherism soap. Don't understand why some people are desperate enough to construct bizarre conspiracy theories over those evil doctors.
>>5677901
Well of course if you've never suffered from body dysmorphia or Ana and you don't have any medical training then of course you won't get it.

Just cause you've never had hemophilia or med training doesn't make it stop existing.

>>5678028
No it's not illness. She just trying to fill social expectations. Thats is a bullshit. But only that's how you survive in our world.
>>5678096
Well. You can't say that it's 100% a thing, cause it might be just mental disorder that seeking some sort of answer - what happening to me and why am I trying to fill myself with false shit that don't belong in this body that nature gave me?

And again. I can understand that guys with mentality of girls can exist. I just think that most of trans that thinking that they are trans not even a trans they just screwed mentally. Cause of things I wrote above. Thye are afraid of being male. Especially when you are gay. It's hard. I know how it's hard cause I live a life of a gay dude.

>>5678262
So if it's not a mental illness, and she's only trying to survive in our world, then it should be the same for a trans woman.

>>5678279
But it's not how it works. Women have social expectations that they filling up. Trans are basically boy who want to be girls (for some reason) but social expectations of the boy in this world - being as much masculine as possible. At least if you infantile and weak you still must posses manup behaviour and have a penis. Or at least you should be basically man with reproducing organ while you are asleep.That's why people don't accept gays either. Cause they are not reproducing, some of them are not masculine and those who are - not representing gays at all (cause they are don't care about representation of the gay world from the beginning).

A life of a trans "woman" a fraud to the very end. For some reason guy suddenly start think that he is a girl. People do not understand this. They can understand references from a nature (you can't complain about nature) cause animals don't wear dresses and not trying to be QT girls while being brutal alpha males.

>>5677069
What happens if you put two boys into the jungle and we come back after puberty? I think we would find one has taken bottom and is less mesc.

I get where op is coming from. Under different, harsher circumstances, you wouldn't even have time to think about bs like gender disphoria, you probably would have just lived an occasionally confused straight man.

>>5677069
>>5677144
gender dysphoria is caused by a hormonal disorder. so yes, people would still feel it, even if they had no external concept of gender. obviously it wouldn't make them want to dress up in skirts and wear make up, but they'd still constantly feel a sense that something was off about their bodies.

and before you go "then why aren't there any trans animals", it's almost certain there are. gender dysphoria probably affects most or all mammals, it's just really hard to detect it in a dog or a cat or a monkey or whatever, since they have no way of understanding their feelings and couldn't express them if they did. it'd just seem like ordinary depression, how would you know the difference?

>>5681713
But if it's just normal depression to us how is it almost certain it's GD?
And why is it wrong to assume they do not but perfectly alright to assume they do?

You have literally no argument as your points defeat themselves.

>>5678312
Your pathological obsession with trans women and feminine men and complete ignorance of trans men and lesbian women is wholly telling about the true source of your pseudoscientific ranting and ridiculous conspiracy theories.

>>5682492
>You have literally no argument as your points defeat themselves.
Listen, you're not a genius. You haven't defeated anyone, or anything. If you have a scientific theory that utterly dismisses what is already established about trans people, prove it. Form a study. Write a paper and submit it for peer review. If you want your voice to matter on this topic, you can't just dip in like you own the universe and drop random fragments of half-baked stoner logic on people like it's god's piss.

>>5677069
>First of all, why is a human alone in the jungle
>Second, why should we give a shit???

And he would still have to act like not a monkey
and he would just make cute dresses out of whatever is in the forest
You are just begging for an argument
You are an idiot for thinking you are smarter than everyone else

>>5682510
But what if he lived on a planet devoid of air? How could he breathe for long enough to make the dresses?

Argument vanquished.

>>5678312
>At least if you infantile and weak you still must posses manup behaviour
I'm liking the use of clinical terms in this description. It really gives this post a reliable and trustworthy feel.

>>5677069
>Release trans folk in the wild.
>Suddenly they become normal.
wtf

>>5682514
We are not talk about a planet without air and nothing natural could survive that planet
So why would a human be on it?

See you are an idiot making things up as you go

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>>5677901

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>>5682510
Why he even want to make a dress for the first place? I mean. if he never saw any dress in his life and no women, no girls, why he even want to be one? I understand that he might feel weird about having penis (maybe) but overall he would just be as he is - a creature who must survive pee through his penis and sometimes jerking it off to release the tension.
Transes here - spoiled brats that just know nothing except life of a girl is good, and tumblr is the best friend.

I just can't reproduce actual human behaviour of the trans person that actually exist in this world without reference to women life as a better life.

I say - if men life happen to be MUCH easier we would had tons of ftm transes not vice versa like these days.

>>5682500
No I really do want to understand what transes are. Maybe I have some sort of negativity on them, cause I don't like fraud as a thing and don't like when people making things up. I'm okay with Drag Queens they are funny and they are brave to be SUCH and THAT way funny in this world.
But Trans MtF are stupid cowards who just want to hide from problems behind tits and fake vaginas. "How passable I'm" saying all for me.

And maybe yeah - this makes me a piece of shit in your eyes. But I still want some truth to be told.

>>5682507
Dunno. All those facts are "you wrong cause you don't have any evidence, I'm right, cause lots of people on the internet say so".

>>5682507
>You haven't defeated anyone
I know. You haven't presented anything to defeat. Thus 'defeat themselves'.

Your entire theory is based off of nothing except how you and some other nuts feel about things. Like >>5682699 said.

>>5682492
because GD can be traced back to neurological and hormonal causes, and those causes would be possible in any species with a great enough degree of sexual dimorphism (most or all mammals), so it'd be very unlikely if such a condition wasn't present in other species

>>5682694
if you really wanted to understand, you'd listen to the answers people are giving you, instead of automatically rejecting the ones you don't like. it's like asking why objects disappear over the horizon if the Earth is flat, and everyone tells you that the Earth is round, but you don't believe them because you're sure to Earth is flat so there must be another explanation.

>>5682699
>>5682840
there is evidence, scientific studies have proven a near 100% correlation between gender dysphoria and detectable neurological/hormonal abnormalities, you're just choosing to selectively ignore the evidence

I'd post some of the studies myself, but I have a strong feeling you'd just ignore them or dismiss them as bad science or find some other excuse for not caring about them, so I'm not gonna waste my time

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>>5683279
I would read it. I might not understand it though. Cause if it's medical shit. It will be heavy for me. You must explain it so I would get it without any kind of medical names and such.

Also. I'm okay if this dysphoria exists. I think that trans nowadays are shit and they are actually pussy boys who want less hard life.
I don't know. Maybe I'm against cheating. And I think trying to be what you actually not - is cheating. And most of the trans in my opinion are not even have that dysphoria. They are just cowards and pussies. And yes. I understand how hard it can be to live gay pussy life. And I understand that I'm talking this shit from a position of manup gay who tired of being pussy back in childhood. But "do I pass, and look how my boobs are become bigger" - is not a proper response from a trans person. All I see here is attention whoring from a people who don't have anything as a bait for this attention except trying to be what they are think to be "popular". They same way some stupid straights trying to be "gayer" just to hit the flow when there is Obama trying to marry all gays together and give them rights.

Tumblr generation. Nothing more.

>>5682514
And if trans would possess manup behaviour, he breathe air when not even air there. Is good to manup behavior. Instead pussy tumblr, suffocate try to breathe dress instead of find air. Pathetic.

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>>5677144
>If there is no reference as "other" gender. We wouldn't have any trans people.
Or you could get a girly acting guy, because he has no clue that he's acting girly and not like the average male since there is no reference to those either, only his own body.

>>5683555
>Also. I'm okay if this dysphoria exists.
Good start.

>I think that trans nowadays are shit and they are actually pussy boys who want less hard life.
Bad follow-through. You're free to think all manner of things, but your opinion on this is contradicted by every body of experts on Earth. You also continue to ignore the existence of FtMs. Why?

>I don't know. Maybe I'm against cheating.
No, you're against bodily autonomy and personal expression.

>And I think trying to be what you actually not - is cheating.
No, that would be agency. It is not cheating to choose how you act, how you appear, or how you live. And it is certainly not cheating to do all of those things in a way that is comfortable to you.

>And most of the trans in my opinion are not even have that dysphoria.
Your opinion is not consistent with facts.

>They are just cowards and ...
Your masculinity is not being threatened by trans women, or at least shouldn't be, and the trans women you're directing this at would just as soon be done with masculinity. Why do you keep going off on this tangent?

>But "do I pass, and ...
Why?
Most people like to look good, and dysphoria makes most of us really bad judges of our own appearance.
And having breasts is great. Many of us got them a decade or more later than we wanted them, so we're pretty thrilled that they're finally where they belong.

>All I see here is attention whoring from a people who don't have anything as a bait for this attention except trying to be what they are think to be "popular".
A lot of trans people face serious discrimination and hostility in their daily lives. Having a community that (usually) respects them does a lot for their self-esteem. So yeah, you'll see a lot of goofing off and playfulness in between misery and angst in the generals.

>They same way some stupid straights trying to be "gayer" ...
You went full tinfoil hat there

>>5677069
>If we get one fetus. And place it into a cryogenic tube. It will never be male or female. Because there is no such shit as a sex in in a tube where all it can do is survive.
Unfortunately, in the real fucking world, sex and gender exist.
Also LoL is shit.

>>5677111
>mystics and healers
Actually, the historical role of third genders was usually fuckboi. Because they were pretty, it wasn't gay to fuck em.

Like insecure people in trap threads. It was usually one big no homo.