Is AGP real? /lgbt/ seems split on the issue. If it is real then

autogynephilia is technically real, in that some people, including cis people, actually have that fetish, but 99% of the time it's mentioned, it's just an excuse to delegitimize trans women who don't fit an extremely narrow narrative. having autogynephilia doesn't mean you must be cis - just as cis people aren't the only gay people, they're also not the only people with fetishes. if you have dysphoria, you're trans, even if you also have autogynephilia.

>>5300133
Please go back to tumblr and take your victim complex with you

I might be oversimplyfying this, but here's how it more or less looks like: There are normal trans people, suffering from body dysphoria and related conditions, who legitimately want to live as gender they perceive themselves to be, are willing to take hormones and do srs afterwards.
There are also men, who like to jerk off to image of themselves in a mirror while wearing some cheap dress and poor makeup. Since it's becoming not enough for them, they claim to be transbians, take hrt with some weird expectations and when they discover they can't get their junk hard anymore, they detransition, claiming they're victim of lgbt propaganda and often become 4chan trolls.

>>5300545
is the agp transbian thing legit or just a funny meme here.

>>5300557
It's a little of both.

It's not real. Blanchard's trans typology is disgustingly misogynistic and basically reduces to the idea that women are sex objects. The argument basically goes that if you aren't a "homosexual transsexual" (read: straight woman), who transitioned because you just loooove dick, your transition clearly must have been motivated by some kind of fetish. In other words, if you aren't trans so you can please other men's dicks, it's because you're a man trying to please your own dick, because why else would a man ever want to be a woman ever? It's really gross.

>>5300606
The second Blanchard is mentioned, you can pretty much disregard the entire discussion. Even seeing his name pop up is an enormous red flag, because there is just an incredible amount of bullshit in every discussion of his theory.

Most of the bullshit is from people who are offended by his ideas or the idea that autogynephilia exists at all, and they'll use a really twisted strawman version of his theory to argue against any assertion that AGP is a thing.

Autogynephilia is very evidently real. It seems like a lot of what Blanchard came up with is probably totally wrong, but the concept of autogynephilia is sound.

Yeah I think one of the surest indications that you're actually trans is that your image of yourself as the opposite gender is entirely non-sexual.

>>5300075
AGP is real, it is just a fetish guys have imagining they are the opposite sex.

>If it is real then what's the difference between it and a normal transgender person?
A transgender person has the inner gender of the sex opposite they were assigned. A guy with AGP will get off to the idea of being a woman, doesn't say anything about their gender.

>>5300630

Okay so here's what I don't get about this: I'm sure most trans peoples' conception of themselves isn't entirely sexual, but completely nonsexual entirely? Like, I want to live my life as my preferred gender in all modes of life, including in the bedroom. Am I not allowed to have sexual fantasies that include my body? It's such a weird argument.

>Phenomenon supports theory of AGP
Incontrovertible proof!

>Phenomenon does not
The subject of lying, and in fact feels the way that would support our theory


Welcome to classification of MtF transsexuals, and enjoy your stay.

>>5300715
If you imagine yourself having sexual life as a woman, but you realize that sex life is a part of a greater whole and you also imagine your life as a woman in it - that's okay. If you enjoy jerking off to idea of being a woman/sissy/slut/whatever - you're agp.

>>5300075

Yes, and it explains 90% of transgender people

This is why trans people so vehemently disagree with it, which is sort of funny

>>5300630
>one of the surest indications that you're actually trans is that you're completely asexual

>>5300773

bullshit

>>5300757
Realize that the theory you're defending isn't about that, and claims that every single trans woman who is not exclusively attracted to men is only trans because of a fetish for being/appearing as/being treated as a woman, and that it is equally true that no trans woman who is exclusively attracted to men can possess such fetishes.

It's that absurd.

>>5300788
Also that androphilic trans women are just men who are so gay that they become women

>>5300827
Sure, but if we write down every grotesque thing Ray believes we'll never get anything else done.

>>5300788
That's not what I've said at all. You've made my argument into a strawman to defend your theory. I've never said that I support Blachard's, I'm claiming that there are people who are taking hormones even if they clearly shouldn't - and it would be fine, if not for the fact they often regret it and start bashing lgbt people or regular transsexuals, claiming they were cheated or other shit.

>>5300863
One has to learn to accept the existence of the "human stupidity factor" in any endeavor.

>>5300863
I'll happily discuss whatever the hell your opinion is but I would like you to divorce it from the term autogynephilia unless you wish to support Blanchard's prejudices. Find a new word, because I'm sick of his meme.

everyone here is a master of psychology

>>5300767
i think this is the most accurate thing said so far

>>5301113
Based on?

>>5301129
Because he's obviously the real master of psychology here

>>5301129
honestly, based on a book i read. it was written by a huge blanchard supporter so, ya know how everyone here feels about that.

i went in expecting to read a bunch of bullshit, but it actually ended up changing my views on agp completely. the author had like hundreds of mtfs fill out questionnaires, and then the book was just describing the results. obviously it was written with bias but the book seemed to have not have much of an agenda other than just seeking the truth about agp.

in fact, the "message" of the book seemed to be that agp is very real, but having agp does not negate the need to transition. it doesnt make dysphoria any less real, but because everyone has that AGP DISGUSTING FETISHIST attitude, most mtfs with agp will deny that any sexual arousal they feel from the idea of beig female has absolutely merit at all, or that it exists at all. they'll often try to cherry-pick details from their childhood to try to prove the validity of their transness.

the book is Men Trapped in Mens Bodies if anyones interested

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>>5301445
>Anne Lawrence

>>5301445
I dunno how many it was but a lot of cis women also have AGP, so it's a moot point really.

>>5301445
That would be Anne Lawrence. Yes, she's biased. Dramatically so, given that she outright states that people whose experiences disagree with the AGP theory are lying (to her, themselves, both, whatever). She's made a career out of arguing the existence of AGP, and it has served her well.

At its core, AGP presupposes that the person "needs to transition" because of a male-exclusive deviancy of sexuality. This is so central to the theory that it is impossible for the supporter of Blanchard's categories of transsexual to acknowledge the existence of trans men attracted to men. Because by consequence, they would have a form of sexual deviancy completely alien to female physiology per the outdated crock used in the construction of AGP. It's a politically motivated stance, not a diagnostically valuable definition.

>>5301468
oh yeah thats who it was, thanks

>>5301407
got me

Okay this is going nowhere so let's analyze a case study, me
>Age 0 to 10, no sexual feelings
>Age 10 find porn, immediately insert as girl
>Age 12 at school get crush on girl, usual hetero feelings yet go home and dildo myself
>Age 15 buy porn off friend (had no internet), he starts to get alarmed by my constant insistence on big cocks and lots of cum in every video he sells me. Try to join this group of females, they never accept me.
>Age 18, that crush ends, make first serious attempts to get gf, fail miserably. Still self-inserting as girl and dildoing during porn time, never think anything of it. Start fucking hookers, it was fun the first three times then meh, keep going for the company.
>Age 20, in university, still trying to get gf, use freedom to buy women's clothes and fuck guys, it's fun.
>Age 21, depression at no gf sets in, get fat, no longer sexy, stop meeting guys, drop out and become NEET
So far so solidly AGP but here's where things get odd
>Age 22, go on antidepressants, interest in women zapped, don't even fuck hookers anymore it's just so boring.
>Age 23, beard growth starts very unhappy about it, looking younger than my years becomes obsession. Come off antidepressants, still little interest in women. Interest in men seems to be getting stronger. Get offer of arranged marriage, decline. Spend all day obsessing over my skin and hair

To summarize It was all seemingly an AGP fetish for me that I largely ignored until I went on antidepressants, sex drive got nerfed yet I still felt pretty girly. I stopped to think about it and realized that I had a lot of feminine traits that are only coming to light now that I am no longer clouded by by my hetero sex drive. Traits such as lifelong obsession with hair and skincare, always abhorring any sort of muscle growth, never really enjoying sex with women, liking my klinefelter-tier body shape, always attempting to hang out with girls in school and generally being a passive person. Thoughts?

>>5301509
I think you fucked up when you decided to drop out of college and toil away at your life instead of choosing and road and following life to its full extent

>>5301482
No they don't. Thats just a lie spread on reddit to make all the agp (usually lesbian) trannies feel better.

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AGP is a meme and I feel extremely sorry for anyone who actually falls for it.

you probably think autism, ADHD, and addiction exist too, don't you? these are fantasy illnesses made up to excuse people of their misbehavior. it's like not having an actual disease like cancer.

AGP is the same thing.

>>5301796
No, it's a study by Moser with a methodology no less flawed than the ones used by Blanchard and his supporters, although differently so.

His observation was that, if held to the strictest interpretation of Blanchard's AGP (corrected for not having been MAAB), a significant minority of cis women would be diagnosed with it, and that if held to the looser form that is used publicly and to support the theory in papers and essays, a great majority would be. Even without declaring any participant dishonest.

No one is arguing (OK, well, no one but Prince) that there can be no sexual dimension to a transgender person's identity. The major point of dissent is that it's being touted as the ultimate truth of that identity, and for a great majority of transsexual women, that is both terribly dismissive and untrue of their experiences.

Trans men are excepted because Blanchard's clique, again, must not pay attention to them to preserve their theory.

>>5301790
fuck college never been happier, now please tell me if I am trans or agp

>>5301808
>autism doesn't exist
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_23z9yJAq0

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>>5300523
i'm not a trans woman, i just understand basic logic. you might want to try using it yourself; it's helped me in life greatly after i learned to embrace it.

>>5301860
Bullshit. That study is terrible and biased. Do you actually support spreading lies about bad science Akaka? You are a typical reddit account. You think woman put on panties and cream their pants like agp men lol? You think they masturbate furiously imagining touching their own tits and lactating like agps? Don't delude yourself. The questions asked in that study were completely biased and worded to trick the females into agreeing. Like asking if they feel attractive in sexy clothing. Feeling attractive in sexy clothing =/= being turned on by seeing yourself in sexy clothing and =/= being turned on by the sexy clothing itself. He specifically designed that study trying to discredit agp theory and thats why its biased. Not to mention the ridiculously small 16 person patient pool.

You are like the typical tranny reddit account spamming this study all over the internet even though its biased and terrible and doesn't even track real or use real agp questions. Like "Does imagining yourself having a female body turn you on". Many agps don't even think of another person. They LITERALLY get off to just imagining themselves in a female body like going grocery shopping or some shit. And you are retarded enough to think cis females do that LOL?

>>5302695
I'm not like that, but serious question: why do you care?
Why is "OMG you're turned on by this!" bandied about as a serious accusation? Why does it matter?

>>5302721
because too many people still internalize puritanical morals that link sexual attraction with corruption and illegitimacy, so it's an easy way to shortcut people's brains with disgust so that they won't think critically about the actual facts of the matter.

>>5302695
>The questions asked in that study were completely biased and worded to trick the females into agreeing
this sounds familiar

What about this simple test? If you still feel like a girl immediately after fapping you're trans. If not you're AGP?

AGP is how lesbians/feminists can justify their hate for trans women.

>>5302695
>Like "Does imagining yourself having a female body turn you on". Many agps don't even think of another person. They LITERALLY get off to just imagining themselves in a female body like going grocery shopping or some shit. And you are retarded enough to think cis females do that LOL?
Lots of people, cis and trans, are autosexual in that sense. They're turned on by doing stuff with their own bodies and thinking about their own arousal, and not fantasizing about anyone else. If you consider that AGP, then yes, quite a few cis women have AGP.

>>5302807
that should mostly work, but some trans women who've happily transitioned would still feel the post-orgasm shame of "oh god i'm just a disgusting gross man" because they'd internalized many people's claims that literally all trans women are men and that being trans is impossible. when you have a strong enough emotions on a subject, logic takes second place, so you'll see closeted trans women both coming up with the most ridiculous reasons for why they really are women due to the distress of dysphoria, and 10 minutes later equally ridiculous reasons why they're just fucked up men due to the hatred of trans people some of them were taught by those around them.

>>5302695
Well, yeah. My very first line of text in the post you quoted was that it was a biased and deeply flawed study. If you'll reread that line, you'll see why you're fighting a man of straw.

Agp is real, but it's a fetish. You can be cis and have Agp and you can be a transbian and not. Agp doesn't define whether you want surgery or not either, it's just a fetish for being treated like a woman during sex.

>>5303891
I like your version - if that's what the accepted definition of AGP was, its widespread use would not upset me at all. I dearly hope that you become a sufficiently-acclaimed sexologist to shatter Blanchard's hateful legacy and give his terminology a new, less transphobic life.