The spiro anti-trans lie

Dammit OP. Bump for reliable medical report.

How does a USA fag get Cypro?

Move to canukistan...or get a gonadectomy.

is this legit?
should I be asking my doctor for cyproterone?

What about getting it online and dropping the spiro? I figured tell teh doc I'm taking the spiro and substituting /w the cypro. Then play with the numbers myself with the printout of my blood work

>taking spironolactone in the first place

I feel sorry for US girls stuck with that awful stuff.

Bump this thread or forever hold your "piece of the truth" to the grave, and your peace.

Basically everyone transitioning past their teens have been prescribed spiro instead of something real, which turns them all into huns.

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I feel like this thread would get more attention if it had anime in it.
So here it is!
<You on spiro

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Very interesting.Full text here :

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2963452/

Though it doesn't seem that bad, for multiple reasons :

* MEB reduces free intracellular estrogen. So it's actually good to have it lower.
* Confirmed low nuclear AR (Androgen Receptor) with spiro.
* Spiro does not have oestrogenic effect, there's even a slight decrease in ER (Estrogen Receptor) but compared to the (relatively) high dose of estrogen in HRT that seems OK.

Not that worried desu

Except the fact that a "sight decrease" of ER function means that the excess estrogen gets purged out of the system through urine sweat and other excretions. Meaning that even if you're on 9001mg of E you'd still be capped to your ER function.

So Spiro makes the E less effective?
Can't that just be countered with more E?

Also, isn't Cypro like taking a sledgehammer to your liver?

>>5216760
>Also, isn't Cypro like taking a sledgehammer to your liver

No. Please do some research before saying stupid things. Cypro is hepatotoxic when taken at high dosages (200-300mg) such as those used in treating prostate cancer. The dosages used for HRT are very small (25mg) and pretty much nullify the hepatotoxicity. You probably still shouldn't take it if you have pre-existing liver disease though.

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>>5216735

>not knowing what spare receptors are

That is why a "slight decrease" is not a problem; and more estrogen can in fact compensate for that.

>>5216814
Sorry, that's just what I've heard.
So are there any downsides to taking Cypro vs Spiro?
Should I ask my doc to give me Cypro instead?

>>5216836
For one, Cypro can't be gotten from a US pharmacy. It is not FDA approved.

>>5216858
I'm in the EU, so no worries there.
I meant more in terms of side-effects.

Ehat about finasteride?

>>5216503
I like it. It keeps my libido normal. Also i inject, so how would i be pissing it all out.

>>5216871
Libido crash

Wow, if that's true, it's fucked up. Glad I've been on cypro since day 1.

>>5217599
Finasteride blocks DHT, it's used to treat male pattern baldness, it's not an effective anti-androgen.

>>5217663
I've been on cypro for two years, no libido crash.

>>5216836
The side effects are different. For one, you wouldn't have to go to the bathroom so often. Cypro has possible side-effects. For example, some patients report depression and it can be bad for your liver at high doses. Like that other anon said though, those high doses are way higher than normal; you don't need hundreds of milligrams of the stuff for it to work since it's a lot more effective than spiro. (note, possible side-effects, people who think these are necessary consequences of taking cypro are profoundly ignorant. Unfortunately that's a shitload of people judging by the stuff you read on this board.) My advice: ask your doctor to give it a try, there's no harm in it. Get tested a few months later and if you feel depressed or if your health is in danger as a result, just switch back. There's no point in not trying it, it's not going to cause any harm unless you keep taking it after your doctor says it's dangerous.

transitioned at 21 and stealth. always used spiro until srs.

another thing for hons to blame though.

>>5216481
Is this a viable option?

>>5217599
Too weak.

>>5217769
only at 21? thats agp hon desu

>>5217826
life circumstances which didnt allow me to transition made me agp :__((((

>>5217813

Really? I had heard the standard finasteride dose for trans women was 6 mg.

>>5217870
It's not completely ineffective but it's still a minor AA. Actually taking Finasteride with Spiro could help the issue discussed in the linked study because it blocks DHT. Some sources state that Spiro isn't as effective without a secondary AA.

>>5217870
No....why would anyone need that dosage?

If you're on HRT and want to help MPB recovery all you have to do is buy 5mg Finasteride pills and split them in fourths, thus giving you 1.25mg daily, that is more than enough.


I have been on Finasteride and HRT for almost 2 years now and my hairline grew back entirely.

>>5217870
6mg is often what get prescribed due to most insurance plans only covering prostate cancer dosages(6mg) rather than "cosmetic" dosages(2mg).

VerrRRry durmb.
I normally just split mine and refill every other month.

>>5217599
As >>5217741 said, it only stops the production of DHT by inhibiting the hormone that binds with testosterone to make it. It doesn't have any effect on the testosterone in your body aside from slightly increasing it since it's not turning into DHT anymore.

>>5217899
Errr I meant 5mg and 1mg, respectively.

Too many pills, not enough bandwidth.

>>5217900
It works fine with Spiro as a secondary indirect T blocker.

>>5217870
have fun with depersonalisation

I'm on 200mg of Spiro, 6mg of estro, and 10mg of progesterone per day. I started at age 27, currently at month 14 of HRT, and my boobs are 34D. My lovely anectdotal evidence proves your point wrong OP. Either that or I'm a statistical annomally...more likely it's the latter.

>>5216423
>linking a study comparing the effects of spiro to something that isnt an aa
holy shit /lgbt/ lmao

>>5217929
damn progesterone

also post boobs

That would explain why I got crazy hair regrow after my doc switched me to cypro.

>>5217949
At work, will later

>>5217933
>Talking bullshit

Comparing AAs is a totally different topic. If Spiro reduces your estrogen receptor count that's bad, mkay?
Yes, sure, a similar study with CPA would be nice, but at least I know now why upping to 300mg spiro made me actually feel more manly again. I had a low E level to start with on a standard dose, so quite possibly my receptor count is in fact low, and lowering it further is the last thing I want.

>Our results present further observations on the action of spironolactone. Administration of this drug resulted in a significant decrease in plasma of testosterone levels and hepatic AR and the complete loss of activity of the androgen responsive hepatic protein MEB.
...
>The complete disappearance of MEB in rats treated with spironolactone is significant because, first, its loss represents interruption of hepatic androgen response, and second, its absence might lead to an increased intracellular estrogen concentration.
...
>In spite of the loss of MEB activity, our results display no action of spironolactone either on plasma estradiol or estriol content, or on the total ER activity in liver. It is possible that our treatment period was too short to produce a feminization of (i.e., an increase in) these activities. It is more likely, however, that in liver disease patients, feminization occurs because spironolactone treatment interferes in maintaining the androgenic influence necessary to sustain a masculine pattern of liver function.

Do people even read these things, or just the incorrect TL/DR posted by OP?

>>5216423
>The cake is a lie...
fuck off back to 2008

>>5217964
Spiro is effective but anything above 200mg is already known to not be effective. The OP is framing Spiro in a way to make it seem like it doesn't work.

>>5217949
Does stuff like this actually work as prog medication?
http://www.amazon.com/Source-Naturals-Natural-Progesterone-Cream/dp/B000GFJJHY

Daily reminder that yuro girls are uglier than norte murican ones because of cypro.

>>5216423
I'm on 400mg/day spiro and 4mg/day 6 months HRT, and I don't pass. my T levels are still in the male range (209 ng/dL)

testosterone reduction is only a side effect of spiro, so i didn't really expect it to work. I'm waiting for winter break so I can get a bilateral orchirectomy.

the sad thing is, doctors won't let you get blood tests if you self med on cypro, and insurance wont cover free-lance blood tests and $80+/mo. in over-seas cypro (which is getting more difficult to acquire)

This is looking bleak, hons
Is there anyway I can get cypro while living in the US?

>>5218603
>>5218603
http://www.alldaychemist.com/androcur.html
shhhh

meh

i'm on 200mg spiro/4mg estro

skin is clear and soft, significant regrowth at the corners of my hairline, more body hair reduction than i expected, noticeable breasts, improved body shape

i'm good

Spiro works just fine unless you have potassium problems. The spiro vs. cypro debate is pure eurofaggotry.

>>5225711
sorry hon, but you're not good at all.

>>5228768
Cypro doesn't restrict your diet and doesn't cause excess urination. Those are both objectively improvements.

>>5228768
cypro is the only thing us europeans has better anyway

This is misguided bullshit. Why do retards here post scientific articles they do not understand?

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>group 2 received spironolactone (5 mg/day)
>cytosolic ER increased in group 2, but with no change in total ER content

>only spironolactone decreased cytosolic AR
>a highly significant decrease is observed only in rats treated with spironolactone
>This reduction in hepatic AR content suggested loss of androgen responsiveness of liver

>(a) only spironolactone appears to act as an antiandrogen in liver, resulting in a decrease in both AR and male specific estrogen binder content, and (b) neither drug results in elevated hepatic ER content, although spironolactone-treated animals show an altered subcellular localization.
You are a hon if you are NOT on spiro already.

>>5216423
DO you have a clue what you are talking about?

MEB binds up estrogen in males. Why is this a problem for it to be inhibited in a transwoman?

This >>5216581

>>5217599
DHT is actually a much more powerful masculinizer than testosterone. Zapping it with Finasteride or Dutasteride helps.

>>5229003
If idiots could only speak when they understand something they'd never get to talk.

>>5237076
Dutasteride > Finasteride
because finasteride only blocks one out of two enzymes that converts T into DHT

>>5225642
>http://www.alldaychemist.com/androcur.html

Is quality health inc. good too?

>>5240954

If by good you mean, "Are the drugs the real thing?" Yes.

>>5217826
>t. 35 and still not full time so I'll make myself feel better by shitting on younger people