Home Defense

You can take shotgun, and fire TWO BLASTS

Absolutely nothing, the "home defense pump action shotgun" fudd meme and the "rifles aren't suitable for home defense" gun grabber memes are old as shit and retarded as hell.
Literally just buy hollow points for your handgun or rifle, or buy a semi auto shotgun. Double barrel and pump action for defense is a meme.

/thread

SBR would probably be louder than at scattergat in doors.

The selling point of a shotgun is one shot doing the damage of 9 .38's. Shotguns are also dirt cheap. Just bought my 590 for $365. Ammunition is relatively cheap and very plentiful. Sights are simple and fast compared to iron sights on rifles.

>>35176469
>/threading your own post
Jump off a bridge.

>>35176469
>what is over penetration
Please get your loved ones some Kevlar

>>35176424
Clearing your house. Never not once

stopping power

>>35176498
This.
I got my 590 used for 230

>>35176515
>What is re-read it faggot

>>35176424
>Shotguns are too loud, get a rifle or a handgun
You wanna know how I know that OP is noguns?

>>35176594
He said subgun not rifle. So it would be something chambered in 10mm or smaller, so no 5.56 or 7.62 blast in your ears. Also i would much rather fire a handgun round indoors unprotected than a scattergat.

>>35176594

>You are sleeping and hear a loud fall
>You get out your shotgun and go down stairs
>You can barely make out a figure in the kitchen
>Pull out the shotgun, point it the the general diection
>BANG

>You turn on the lights
>You see a black man in pain on the floor

>>35176720
Do you live alone?

>>35176770
No, I just made that story up for a example of what could happen. The point is you don't have to aim very much.

>>35176581
I certainly hope you aren't suggesting that hollow points are less likely to over penetrate than some #4 buck.

>>35176515
All rounds for defense over penetrate interior walls you mindless fuck.

>>35176788
Fuck off, shot spreads about an inch for every yard it travels out of a barrel unless you're using some super short sbs.

>>35176788
"you don't have to aim much"
Yes you do, buckshot doesn't spread much over a 10 yard indoor engagement. At home defense ranges it might as well be a fairly solid mass of lead.

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>put a few small holes in home invader
>put a few huge holes in home invader

gee i wonder which is better

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O49Sh62mORc

>>35176788
nice fucking meme

>>35176788
Point taken.

>>35176424
You don't need this thread. You are just shitposting. Every bit of information you'd need if you were serious has been gone over countless times.

OP should coat a pair of nunchaku with epoxy, large rifle primers and razor blades. The resulting esplody nunchuckers of death will slay any goblin who enters your domain.

>>35176791
No im saying you could uses hp and they dont over penetrate like ball

>>35176788
>you don't have to aim very much.
Oh look, another retard who thinks real shotguns shoot like the ones in video games

>>35176788
>Obvious troll...

Even with bird shot in home distances, your spread will be minimal at best. Then you use flight control OO buck and your speed is 1-2 inches at 10 yards.

>>35176424
A shotgun, upclose, can cut you in half, with the proper ammunition. Your chance of hitting someone and disabling them is greatly increased. It's been around for a very long time.

>Mav 88
>Remingshit low recoil buck on a side saddle
in case my G19 & gold dots aren't enough...

>>35176870
Fair enough

>>35176424
Because it gets the job done in one shot 90% of the time and costs a fraction of the price of an AR or decent pistol. Good luck trying to put someone down as quickly with a 9mm. And where the fuck did you hear that they are louder than a pistol? A 20 inch 12 gauge is about as loud as 9mm and not nearly as loud as a shorty AR. The fact that you mentioned house clearing makes me think you're some wannabe operater though.

>>35176424
>itt Professor Theorycraft explains why shotguns aren't HD weapons with his magical spreadsheet

Actually own a firearm before you drop another shit this big on /k/

It's affordable and it kills people real good.

Bird shot can be cheap as fuck
Buckshot is still cheaper than defensive handgun/rifle ammo
Even decent shotguns are under $300

Even bird shot will retain enough energy and group well enough to penetrate a simple hoodie/t-shirt that most thieves wear within home distances (7 yards max).
If the guy lives, the doctor is going to have to painfully remove hundreds of tiny lead shot from his body.
Get #4~00 buckshot and the guy won't be surviving unless you wing him. Though you'll penetrate at 2-3 interior walls.
You'll have to fire more shots with a rifle or handgun to incapacitate compared to a shotgun. It's much easier to explain to the court that you shot the nigger once or twice from your trusty shotgun rather than magdumped on him with your scary black rifle/handgun.
Shotguns are lighter than rifles of the same length.

Why a pump over a semi?
It's less finnicky with ammo pressures, semiauto magazines deform shells if you leave them loaded, and they're more expensive for somewhat faster firing and it's got the same capacity.

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>>35176452
Highly underrated

>>35177242
>semiauto magazines deform shells if you leave them loaded

You mean box magazines, which are not exclusive to auto loaders. You're more likely to short stroke a pump in a stressful situation than for a semi auto made in the last fifty years to malfunction using defensive loads.

>>35177242
>Buckshot is still cheaper than defensive handgun/rifle ammo

Not really, you can get XM193 for a bout a third of the cost.

>>35176424
The only reason it is that they kill or gravely injure whit one shot
Make it much more safer in case of life trethanig situation

>>35176424
I the big concern in swlf defense shootings isbthe number of misses. People are naturally better with a long gun than a pistol. Second the amount of trauma caused my a shotgun loaded with buckshot is absolutely devastating not even in the same league as a pistol barely even the same sport. Pump shotguns are very very reliable the risk of short stroking is far less than that of a auto pistol malfunctioning. The house clearing argument is flawed. That's not how home defense scenarios play out. The noise difference is negligible both redicoulously loud as fuck. The spread although not that great is insanely traumatic to a human body. A shot to the arm or leg with a pistol means the person coukd possibly still walk or fight. With a shotgun loaded with buckshot, its effectively an amputation. 80 percent of people shot with handguns live. 80 percent of people shot with shotguns don't . I hope this is a bait.

>>35176884
Has a turbo short barrel
(With the shells visibly sticking out) ever been used in home defense? Would that provide vidya-tier scatter?

>>35176515
buckshot goes through drywall way better than .223 does.

>>35177609
>This post really makes me think

>>35177411
>You're more likely to short stroke a pump in a stressful situation
>le stressful situation
You're short stroking because you suck not because you're stressed. You deserve to die if you shit yourself with stress so hard in a confrontation you can't work a pump. Might as well say
>well you'll limp wrist your handgun in a stressful situation
>well you'll forget to pull the charging handle and also drop your magazine somehow in a stressful situation

>>35176870
If they work. No hp works 100% of the time.

>>35177433
cheapo xm193 is $0.29 per round
cheapo 00 buck is $0.28
however cheapo m193 is $0.27

>>35177609
Only 00 or 000. I use #4 buckshot

>>35177674
>I am too stupid to know the meaning of "more likely"

As expected of a pump fag.

>>35177702
>cheapo 00 buck is $0.28
Lol? Fucking where?

>>35177710
You're also more likely to kill yourself if you own a gun, better off not owning one right?

>>35177717
http://www.sgammo.com/product/12-gauge-ammo/temporary-sale-250-round-case-sellier-bellot-12-gauge-275-inch-9-pellet-oo-buc

>>35177657
>>35177704
it's well documented. #4 won't save you either, home defense shotguns are a meme. you could do a lot worse, but you could a hell of a lot better.

>>35177733
[citation needed]
it's well documented that a rifle won't save you

>>35177720
I wouldn't trust someone as stupid as you with a box cutter. Clock's ticking for you, brainlet.

>>35177728
>temporary sale
>Sellier Bellot

>>35177747
>literally all sales are temporary
>it somehow doesn't count if it's this one brand

Trying to find a Mossberg 500 Shockwave.

Are you guys trying to tell me to get something else?

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>>35177674

>>35177747
and?
S&B patterns like shit, but who cares when you're shooting inside a house?

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What's with this recent trend of shitting on shotguns for some reason?
Are the new ar-15 poorfags owners trying to justify themselves by attacking slightly more poorfag shotgun owners?

>>35177747
>>35177771
I care when I live in a place where I might have to shoot 15-25 yards away.

>>35176424
They are good for Canadians since pistols and ARs are restricted but we can have a 12" barrel shotguns for 300$ new and keep them in our cars

>>35176720
>Y'DON'T EVEN NEED T' AIM A SHOTGUN! JUS' POINT AND IT'LL SPREAD OUT THE ENTIRE ROOM!
fuck off fudd

>>35176424
I own a mossberg 500 tactical persuader for HD, Had it maybe 10 years and put probably around 300,000 shells with only failures being custom shells. currently loaded with 2 buck followed by 1 magnum buck and 2 slugs. only had to take it out once on somebody breaking in to my work van. while I also have a AR-15 tucked away I prefer the Mossman simply for the reason I owned it the longest and shot it the most

>>35176424
You cant shuck either of them

>psycological conditioning from movies etc

People know the shuck of a pump action, they know shits about to go down, theyll start turning tail and you may not even have mess your dry wall up.

If they were armed and ""but the shuck will give you away and theyll gun you down"" the thing is its a lottery that if you even hit one of them, they can be going down or be winged and still fire blindly at you, so either way, its probably not going to go down well if youre sneaky or not.

>>35176424
>What is so good about a shotgun that a pistol, subgun, or SBR can't do?

>Easy to hit at short distances.
>Universally available ammo.
>Sturdy
>Can be used with minimal training

>>35177411
If theres a problem with short shucking, theres a solution- winchester 97, just hold the trigger and just shuck, spray and pray haha

>>35176424
Shotguns put people down more reliably, and more quickly than handguns. I can show you plenty of videos of people being shot fatally and staying up for 10 or more seconds.

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>>35176424
>They're long unless shortened

S&W Governor with 410 shells are fine for home defense.

KSG

short enough with out a NFA stamp to properly move through a house. enough ammo to fight back against someone with a firearm also.

>>35178292
People die when they are killed.

>>35178190
Lol, all of these tropes are wrong.

>>35178371
>all of these
What kind of total shithole do you live in where you can't find 12ga ammo

>>35176469
>thinking hollow points aren't a meme

Don't want your home defense pistol to over penetrate , do you Elmer?

>>35176424

It's the nigh on endless choice of loadouts that does it for me. Imagine the nigger sat in jail, explaining to his new cellmate how he got knocked off his feet and incapacitated by cum soaked Skittles.

>>35178389
Most 12 ga ammo is shit ass birdshot. You can get buck, but it is the hunting variety mostly which is overkill for defense. Where as the common 223 stuff is 55 gr and perfect for defense.

>>35176424
>Implying I don't want to slam fire massive grain slugs out of my Ithaca for shits and giggles while killing home invaders.

Is it practical? No. Is it worth putting holes in my walls, my cars, my neighbor's cars, and my neighbor's walls? You bet your sweet ass it is.

>>35177784
Cuntrarianism.

I own an AR, a Mossberg 500, a Glock 26 and a Taurus revolver.

Intruders will be met with the one nearest me. I'm boring, my weapons are boring, but I can hit with them.

>>35178317
But when you kill your enemies, they win.

>>35176498
paid $700 for one and all I got was the L3 insight forend. Just fuck my shit up please

Put me firmly in the shotguns are trash tier. Too low rate of fire for what is honestly likely the most stressful event of your entire life. Get something with 15+ rounds that you can fire repeatedly despite deafening noise, blinding light, soaking hands and pissed pants.

>>35176515
http://how-i-did-it.org/drywall/ammunition.html

k lol

>>35176498
Where'd you get your 590 that cheap? I'm looking for a 590A1 with ghost rings and the cheapest I can find is $520 shipped

>>35178869
A semi auto 12 gauge with eight or ten round box mags is going to ruin any dindu's day.

>>35176424
>good
They're cheap
They're about as close to a guaranteed 1-shot-stop as you can get short of destructive devices
Even the cheapest of cheapshit bulk pack birdshot will kill someone at home defense ranges, no specialty ammo required for good lethality
They are easier to aim than a pistol
They have very simple controls
They are so ubiquitous that even someone who's never touched a firearm before has seen them enough in vidya/movies they can operate one first try
They are comparatively quiet (standard birdshot or low recoil buckshot is around 145dBA at the shooter's ear, compared to 150+ for subsonic pistol and 160+ for centerfire rifle)

Are they the ABSOLUTE BESTEST SOLUTION for home defense? No, but they're cheap, easy, and effective enough.

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>>35178317

>>35179022

As will any self defense tier firearm.

SA's aren't as bad, but I've yet to be convinced by their reliability, and you still get more rate of fire out of something like an AR or Glock.

>>35178295
Governor and judges are meme guns great for hunting and hiking when you may have to kill a snake.

Beside penetration, drywall, what kind of slugs, shoot from hip etc.. when tyrone hears that distinctive "click clack" of a shotgun coming from a dark corner of the room he will try to get the hell out immediately

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#4 buck seems pretty hard to beat for inside a home or apartment.
#1 thru 000 seems better for outside work and police use.

I literally don't understand why anyone would use anything other than an AR-15 for home defense now that the "223 will kill your neighbor" myth has been busted to shit.

>>35181185
You are more likely to face prosecution for using an AR-15 than if you used a shotgun or fudd gun.

>>35181255
Rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

Also, if you don't live in a cuck state then I think you can expect similar results to this:

http://newsok.com/article/5544038
http://heavy.com/news/2017/03/max-cook-jake-woodruff-jacob-redfearn-jacob-redfearn-broken-arrow-oklahoma-home-invasion-burglary-shooting-teens-killed-photos-facebook/
http://ktul.com/news/local/family-member-of-teen-burglary-suspect-killed-in-wagoner-county-break-in-speaks-out
>they weren't even armed

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>>35181329
>Rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6.
I've seen how that goes down.

>>35181583
>believing HD and killing protesters are the same thing

>>35178962
A 590 is not a 590A1.

>>35176788
The rule is that you should aim a shotgun like it's a rifle you retard

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>>35176594
>>35176663
In his defense, I did say SBR, though I should have specified that I meant a pistol caliber like a 9mm AR or something.

I own six guns. Looking at a 7th which may or may not be a shotgun.

>>35176865
I lol'd.

>>35177072
So what you're saying is, shotguns are for poor fags? Also if you don't check your house when you hear one of your windows shatter in the middle of the night, what do you do? Hide under the blankets and hope Jamal doesn't come into the bedroom?

>>35177132
>Gets butt blasted when somebody questions the practicality of a shotgun
>"HURR OP MUST BE NOGUNZ"

Sorry I talked shit about your raifu, fampai

>>35177500
>trethanig

Learned a new word today.

>>35177784

I'm not trying to shit on shotguns by any means. I'm considering getting one.

>Considering

>>35178028
>10 years
>300,000 shells
>Average 82 shells per day

Jesus fuck dude, how often do you shoot that thing?

>>35178486
Most /k/ post in this thread.

>>35177242
>>35179084
Good replies

>>35178488
Are you actually retarded? Because you sound like you're retarded.

>>35181837
The worst part about the gun community is listening to these fantasies.

If you hear a window crash in the middle of the night you have no idea what just happened. A common thing for home invaders to do is yell "Police get down." You hear that, do you still run out all John Whicky? Also if you are white and live in a white neighborhood chances are your home invaders will not be named Jamal. Chances are announcing your presence will be enough to send them running. If they don't run then who are you dealing with? Most likely someone totally out of it. You are not a spy, you are not a mob kingpin, its not a hitman or a death squad. Most likely some junky.

I would much rather some junky run off with my blue ray than deal with the hearing loss of shooting a gun indoors. The mess of shooting someone. In some places you have to pay an expensive bio team to clean up dead human remains. Home repairs, shrinks for the kids. Not to mention the saying should be "Better to spend thousands of dollars on a legal defense, getting an arrest record and missing weeks of work and than carried by six"

>>35182374

While I do agree with you that there is an abundance of people in the shooting community who think a self defense situation would play out exactly like a John Wick action sequence, I think you're projecting a lot of that into what I'm saying.

Been in two burglary situations before while I was home. Both times, yes they ran when I announced my presence. Doesn't mean you don't check to see that your house is clear, at least to get secure enough to call the police once you have identified that there is indeed an intruder on your property. The second time, the dindu hid behind a bush outside my front door after he ran out and didn't scramble out from behind it until I got close. I didn't even think he was on my property anymore. If he had a weapon and the will to attack me, I'd be dead right now for making the mistake of thinking the coast was clear.

Clearing doesn't mean doing tactical pirouettes through your hallways. It means checking that the premises is clear of hostile presence.

>>35176424
Because everyone's desperately trying to justify a role for a platform that's been useless for quite some time. People buy shotguns because there cheap and fun at the range, but beyond hunting birds they aren't of much real use.

>>35176791
>I certainly hope you aren't suggesting that hollow points are less likely to over penetrate than some #4 buck.


Seen some ballistic tests that said #4 is sub par for HD. May want to consider 00

>>35182313
Excellent and thoughtful retort.

Nothing scares off intruders quite like a quick "CHU-CHUNK" from a pump action shotgun

>>35176498
It's also almost impossible to miss anything at indoor distances with any firearm that has a stock. So since you're not going to miss, might as well get the biggest caliber possible

>>35177720
Yes?.

Sage.

>>35176469
Its not that rifles are not suitable its that the shotgun is more suitable. Tyrone, shot once with a 12 gauge, will not be getting back up. Its about first round knockdown power at short "inside the house" range, where the 12, 16, or even 20gauge shotgun, loaded with slug or buckshot just shits all over .223 or even .30 cal.

Also the shotgun is generally a smaller more hallways friendly size and is more hip/unready shot friendly, even at short range it has a slightly better chance to hit due to pellet spread, however minor. A two inch spread at ten feet is still a much bigger pattern than a .223 single projectile.

Mostly is is just a question of energy delivery, .223 loaded with JHP or lead tips will kill, for sure, but I might not kill or incap immediately which is the goal of home defense guns, you dont want to deal with a wounded but still armed and now fully fight or flight intruder, If you shoot you want the first shot to be as decisive as possible, and the shotgun just wins that contest by miles. It delivers massive energy, all at once and it dumb all the energy into the target by delivering it through a lot of mass at a relatively lower velocity, no energy wasted on overpenetration, no need to risk a second shot if the first connects, no one well hit with a 12 gauge at short range is gonna be getting back up to fight.

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>>35177657

>>35176424
Just us low recoil 12 gauge 00 buckshot. It has plenty of force, is easy to control and won't murder your neighbors if you miss.

>>35184504
Ohhhhh shut the fuck up. There was a guy with a 20 inch AR-15 that killed 3 guys. You see people get away from shotgun users all of the fucking time.

>>35177784

Same reason the SMG is dead: body armor.

>>35182374
This is a good post.
A lot of people underestimate the effect that being involved in such a situation would have on them.

There are many posts I see on /k/ that take the position of "the person needs/deserves to die".
I think that's just the John Wick fantasy being justified. Killing people isn't fun or enjoyable. It's potentially traumatic, and pretty unkind.