Why exactly is stopping power a "meme"?

shoot placemats

>>35174359
Some genius pointed out how kinetic energy works better when the bullet stops inside the person, which is true

But they forgot that having a gigantic fucking exit wound also kills good too

>>35174365
Ah, the old, "Every .22 LR hits you in the head and every .45 ACP hits you in the leg"

>>35174369
Better if it stops inside, cause of eternal bleeding

>>35174359
It's a meme because you can't express "stopping power" in units, and because no bullet, no matter how powerful, will kill something that it misses.

>>35174369
Kinetic energy is a meme, it's what squishy bit the bullet hits that really matter.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5AhcuLWIe3A#t=682

>>35174538
>it's unmesuarable so it must not exist

Pleb.

A .45 to the heart beats a .22 to the heart

Because it's used as an excuse to justify paranoia, magnumitis, and shit-tier marksmanship. There are people her who talk like they expect to get mugged by Robocop or have a break-in by the cops from Jin-Roh and nothing but the most extreme calibers will do, when the truth is that if they ever do have to draw their gun in self-defense, it will most likely be against a crackhead or some teenage dindu, neither of which tend to walk around in Level IV body armor. There are also a lot of people here who think large caliber and high magazine capacity are an acceptable substitute for being able to reliably hit what you're aiming at, mostly because buying tacticool new toys is way more fun than spending hours down at the range learning to git gud with what you've got.

The bottom line is that the only really big gap out there is the one between noguns and hasguns. Long arguments about how many feet per second .40 S&W gets vs. how many .45 ACP gets are pointless because it'll all work fine at stopping an attacker, but people like arguing about pointless shit.

>>35174390
>eternal
I think you mean ethereal bleeding

Problem with stopping power is that there are no units for it that wouldn't falsely show that tennis ball launching machine is more effective than 45acp.

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>>35174359
Because handgun rounds are all fairly shitty. If your comparing modern expanding ammo across calibers, there just isnt much difference between the calibers as far as meaningful terminal ballistics.

If you really want to shoot someone, use a fucking rifle.

Because just like .45 fags talk about big bullets but refuse to convert to .460 Rowland, shot placement idiots talk about how all you need is high capacity and low recoil but won't carry a .22 for every day.

>>35174359
Because these fags are so insecure even the idea of relying on 8 shots gives them goose skin.

Reality check: 8 shots is a lot. Reality is 8 shots of 9mm is more than adequate for anyone with any fucking clue what they're doing.

>>35174677
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tU98uP7pXA8

>>35174663
22LR has issues with high capacity.
Barely any pistols with a 15+ round magazine.

>>35174365
What did the placements do to me?

>>35174687
5.7, in hollowpoint, exists.

>>35174758
5.7 is not that bad.
It would be even better if it want necked to 22 and instead fired an 8mm bullet.

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>>35174390
It also causes internal bleeding if it blasts right through you, you retard

>>35174808
Yes but you'll get a lot of people, assuming that aren't arguing over it's boutique price, which isn't part of the argument, that it's "not needed, or unnessecary."

It also brings into question why continued development of pistol cartridges is still in the round-and flat headed big bullet style when based on the "shot placement is all that matters" 5.7, 4.5 and other calibers like it should be the obvious clear winners.

>>35174816
Internal, sure, but only a bullet that stops inside can cause bleeding 20 years after the guy survives.

>>35174677
What if I want to shoot down 3 attackers? Is 8 rounds still plenty?

>>35174858
hardly helpful in a self-defense scenario

>>35174858
>If

>>35174638
>Not shooting with your spirit gun

>>35174903
If you get attacked by 3 dudes and you can't scare them off or take them out with 8 shots you're most likely fucked anyway.
You get attacked by 8 muggers, you fire 1 round into the air they'll probably bolt, you fire 1 round into a shin and they definitely will.

>>35174359
Because people fail to understand that stopping power is different when talking about pistols versus hunting medium sized with a rifle. If talking about pistols it is about increasing the size of the target areas that are effective. There is reason why the FBI has a ammo testing stranded.

http://www.brassfetcher.com/FBI%20Ammunition%20Protocol/FBI%20Ammunition%20Protocol.html

The short of it is that if ammo can not pass that test then it may trouble in the field getting into a number of vital systems. Under penetration is a thing.

Most of the better makes of 9mm made for self defense can pass that test with handily if fired out of 4.5 inch barrel. If fired out of a shorter barrel I would say start look at any tests done on that ammo. When you start talking about 380 ACP out of a 2.6 inch barrel you need to look rather closely your options.

Do not get me wrong I am big fan of things like the KAHR CW380 for EDC but it needs good ammo. In fact that is what my brother uses for his EDC.

If you are going with some thing less powerful then that it can still work as long as you understand that your shots placements must be excellence. Defensive shooting were 25 ACP is used are the most lethal (barring were shot guns or rifles are used) in the US likely because the people who carry it understand very well its limits.

Skill can replace the need for stopping power, but why not have both?

>>35174638
Pretty sure he meant urethral bleeding

>>35174359
Because almost all defensive handgun cartridges are very similar in power to the point where it doesn't make that much difference.

Obviously .22lr isn't adaquate for self defense, but there's a major difference in power between .22lr and 9mm. Whereas 9mm, .40, .45 are all close enough (especially with modern projectiles) that the difference is irrelevant.

>>35174359

Strasbourg tests.

Look them up.

"Stopping power is a meme" is only spouted by pussies who are afraid of 40, 45, 357.

The simple fact is that bigger and more powerful bullets kill shit faster. The end.

Strasbourg, go look it up.

>>35174538
>
>>35174584
>>35174632
>>35174647
>>35174649
>>35174677
>>35174758

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V36leMeEEjo

Kinetic energy is pure physics, it exists. Try hunting an elephant with a 9mm. The Taylor KO actually fit real big game hunters results and experience pretty well. The only meme is 9mm and 5.56 autism.

Let's talk about why 5.56 blows ass in SBRs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2kzgIxM4pQ&list=PL5nfBJWux0WppM3bSFB82R7tEAOZdijPL&index=16

Kinetic energy is pure physics, it exists. Try hunting an elephant with a 9mm.

>>35175546
>PAY ATTENTION TO MY MEME TESTS
FBI shooting statistics. Look them up.

>>35175632
Irrelevant argument. That's like saying heavier guns grip better because heavier planets have more gravity.

>>35175547
>Kinetic energy is pure physics, it exists. Try hunting an elephant with a 9mm.
How many people on /k/ do you really think ever go elephant hunting? We all know that stopping power arguments really revolve around only one species - the North American Pavement Ape.

>>35175648
So a a martini Henry from 1880 has better chance of killing big things than a 5.56mm AR.

Ouch.

.577/450 Taylor KO = 39

A 55 gr 5.56mm NATO bullet moving at 3000 FPS only has a TKOF of 5.

And surprisingly one kills the elephant and the other gets squished by elephant.

But stopping power is a meme if you jerk off on a biscuit and share it in an echo chamber.

>>35175636

100's of like sized goats, all shot in same spot, from same distance

vs.

Government compiled data that doesn't reflect psychology, drug use, weight, BMI, bullet placement and was done by people who can't get fired, no matter how hard they phone it in.

Let me guess, you are an ardent believer in 9mm, and 40 is "too snappy"?

>>35174390
>eternal bleeding
Morgul bullets when?

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>>35174390
>eternal bleeding

>>35174359
>Why exactly is stopping power a "meme"?
because "dropping a man" is a meme that only happens if you hit them in the head/heart. It doesn't matter what you use if you do so.

>>35174601
But two smaller caliber rounds to the heart is even worse than one .45 :^)

>>35175668
>North American Pavement Ape

What about the Middle Eastern Combustion Chimp?

>>35174365

Why would shooting at a placemat change the stopping power?

>>35174390
You do know that if a bullet passes through you and you're bleeding on the outside that you also bleed in the inside?

If this is b8 you win

>>35174632
>There are also a lot of people here who think large caliber and high magazine capacity are an acceptable substitute for being able to reliably hit what you're aiming at
If you unload an unchoked full auto saiga from the hip you're quite likely to injure a guy in who's general direction you're pointing it though

>>35176035
>.22 + .22=.44

.45 still wins, fegget.

it helps to say "terminal ballistics" instead, it gets the same point across without sending people into useless autistic fits of rage over the term "stopping power"

>>35174903
>What if I want to shoot down 3 attackers? Is 8 rounds still plenty?

It should be plenty, considering that ordinary people (ie not SF operator high speed low drag dudes) have done much more impressive feats. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1984_New_York_City_Subway_shooting

That was 4 hoodlums surrounding him, and he took them all down with only 5 shots.

>>35174359
because a bullet isn't going to stop a charging person unless it brains them, shatters their femurs/pelvis, cuts their spine or pierces the heart/aorta
hand gun callibres don't have too much difference when it comes to doing any of these

>>35174390
>eternal bleeding
Well if you bleed to death, it technically is eternal bleeding...

>>35174601

Except that a person who enters a hospital alive with a GSW to the heart has a 75% chance of walking out.

>>35176390
Yeah but terminal ballistics has more to do with projectile design, so you can't use it as a blind argument for big dumb cartridges.

>>35176022
You can get hit with a lot of rounds in the heart and keep chugging, drugs are a hell of a thing. Go watch 10,000 self defense videos before you talk about what does and doesn't happen.

Also enjoy your 9mm literally deflecting off a rib and missing the heart

>>35175258
>Uretheral Bleeding

That's a great name for a heavy metal band