Without US involvement how far would Russia get in a Western push?

>>35158168
A couple miles before they run out of gas and parts.

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If they were really well prepared, were able to move the majority of their forces into position discreetly and were able to infiltrate their Spetsnatz properly i'd reckon they get just inside the the german border with a few spearheads.

>>35158168
If the Poles don't slow em down europe is fugged cause Germany can't even afford the gas to fly their jets regularly and everyone else is retarded and cut spending for their mil.

Nice "camouflage" there.

>>35158168
Far, but not as far as most people think. It's still a trek to move that amount of firepower around even in peacetime, and considering the fact that Russia had trouble enough getting units and ammo to and from areas in their own country during the Ukraine crisis, I wouldn't bet money on them taking very much.

>>35158168
All the way to the Atlantic

>>35158168
All the way to the Pacific.

Quite well given that nobody in Europe takes their own defence seriously and just expects America to do everything for them.

>>35158168
all the way to France, which will then turn communist and join them

>>35158168
probably wouldn't slow down until they hit france

>>35158446
They've imported millions of military age males. Surely a good portion of them will stand up for their adopted countries.

>>35158433
I c wat u did thar

>>35158168
As far as it took for all the stronger eastern European nations, and some western, to band together and stop them. Poland, Czech Republic, France, are nations with strong military.

Probably partway through Poland before the Euros get their shit in some order.

Also, while this is a wonderful what-if scenario I'm going to go ahead and be that guy and point out that the Russians have little to gain from a westward push. I'm vehemently anti-slavaboo, but the Russkies would have to be pants-on-head retarded to tank what's left of their economy and fuck their reputation by starting an armed push towards the Atlantic.

>>35158168
>Without US involvement how far would Russia get in a Western push?
portugal.

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Far.....

>>35158462
The Czechs appear to be pretty professional based on reports of their troops in Afghanistan, however they don't have a ton of heavy hardware (don't they only have 30 upgraded T-72s?)

>>35158461
Hahahahahahahahahahahaha

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>>35158474

>>35158168
If they could break through Visegrad then they could probably take the continent.

>>35158446
Poland and the Baltic countries will fight to the death giving Germany enough time to mobilise whatever little it has, UK and France will instantly send their entire armed forces to the front line they aren't going to wait for the Russians to reach them.

UK and French navies destroy Russias very quickly.

>>35158467
With all the sanctions imposed on them by the West is it really unfeasible they could want to seize natural resources by force?

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>>35158461

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>>35158336

>>35158509
Europe is known for it's huge deposits of oil and rare earth minerals.

>>35158168
idk, how did they do in shot put in the olympics last time?

>>35158168
>Without US involvement
The Atlantic

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>>35158547
I like where this is going.

Can't wait for a first world country to break the ice and establish new colonies in Africa by military force. Afterward the Western countries will be astounded their populations don't give a fuck or even think it's a good idea and join in the looting.

>>35158509
They have plenty of resources. They are also aware of their economic and demographic future, and are looking to expand into the natural choke points that enter into he Eurasian flatlands and dig in with a smaller leaner force

I for one would welcome my new Russian masters

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Probably somewhere in west germany, that is if we are talking about offensive breakthrough push and not frontline warfare.
>Baltic states are nonissue
>Poland has capable military with well thought out doctrine but with enough force russians might be able to overwhelm them
>Bundeswehr is a laughing matter, but sizeable laughing matter
>Czechs and Hungarians have capable but way too small militaries and would be put out of strategical warfare farily quickly, effectively being turned into nothing but mechanised infantry force probably
>Romanians and Bulgarians dont even factor in if we are talking about westward push

See UK and French subs blockading Russian ports and sinking every ship that left dock would be fun to see.

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>>35158477
czech here
yes we have literally 30 tanks and most of them and most of them are in place
literally single sortie and we have lost our armored warfare capability

this is what happens when you have NATO overseas missions oriented military

other branches are pretty great tho

>>35158509
natural resources are literally the only thing they have enough of m9

>>35158684
S-so what are the sanctions we have on them for?

>>35158703
money held in foreign banks, penalties or outright banning of businesses that do dealings with Russian, significant pressure on other entities that might work with the Russian government.

>>35158703
Consumer goods and financial sector. Also private accounts and property of russians affiliated with the government. Also what good are natural resources when you dont have anyone to sell them to.

>>35158461
Not if chechens are leading the operations into those ciuntries. In that case, russians would have their best anti air batteries on iceland and ireland.

>>35158629
The balkans would fight among each other with th pro russian ones winning, having italy in reach

>>35158721
But the germans still buy their gas. Even ukraine which claimed to be at war with russia was forced to pay debts to gasprom. Those sanctions did nothing. The oil becoming cheap was what harmed the ruble, but how long that will last, nobody knows. Might not last long

>>35158782
>Those sanctions did nothing.
Yes they do, they put a huge dent into the Russian economy. Russian prospects for business are permanently locked out of the most lucrative countries to do deals in (at least until their lifted). They also froze assets that belongs to senior Russians and friends of the government, which means their lifestyles of extravagance are interrupted.

>forced to pay debts to gasprom.
it's a situation where even though they get gas and stuff from Russia, Europe still (literally) holds the cards to every other sector in a modern day economy. Trying to live off of a single resource (like gas) is very bad long term (see Venezuela).

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>>35158336
It actually has a use, but a really specific niche

>>35158851
>let's impose sanctions for no reason other than to piss off a country with thousands of active nukes

Interesting foreign policy choice

Quite far.
They wouldn't stay, but they're basically steamroll in the initial push.
NATO has long since lost the ability to quickly mobilize itself en masse.

>>35158676
What happened to the rest of your tanks? Weren't you guys producing export T-72s during the Cold War?

>>35158901
We also have nukes, as do several other countries. Rather moot point.

>>35158851
>They also froze assets that belongs to senior Russians and friends of the government, which means their lifestyles of extravagance are interrupted.

How the fuck can that be a bad thing

>>35158901
>Interesting foreign policy choice
So they're going to start a nuclear war over some sanctions that they could have removed within weeks if they started making smart decisions?
What the fuck are you even getting at here?

>>35158901
>What is MAD

>>35158922
It's not, read what I said and the post I responded to.
The corruption of Russian government officials makes even the worst guy or gal in the US look tame in comparison.

>>35158926
Crimea is worth all the trouble to russia.

>>35158945
Wrong reply

>>35158945
I guess, until it crashes their economy with no survivors.

Honestly all they had to do was accept the direction Ukraine was going, negotiate for the Russian forces in Crimea to remain where they are and ask the Ukrainian government to mind the Russian minority in the East. That's it, that's all they had to do.

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>>35158906
We have couple hunder t-72s in reserve and while they probably remain operational they are next to useless on a modern battlefield. As I said, in a small sized NATO centric military, maintaining sizeable tank force is pointless as even if we pumped billions into it it would still be useless if say Russia decided to send guards tank army through us.

So we maintain token tank force of upgraded T-72s - if for some fucking reason we required tank presence in afghanistan or any other desert shithole that NATO drags us into we'll have atleast something.

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>>35158926
Didn't you hear? Any pushback whatsoever against Russian interests results in WW3.
Not sure Trump got the memo on that.

>>35158168
They'd be stopped somewhere in Poland. The Baltics are a lost cause, but Poland might hold them along the Vistula. If they don't, Russia won't make it past the Oder. Either way, Russia probably doesn't have what it takes to make it into Germany. Poland is not yet lost.

>>35158996
>best guns
>best women
>most logical

Fucking Czechs, I love you.

>>35158996
I heard the problem with the Czech tank force is the government made some massive, sweeping upgrades that would literally take them into baby T-90 territory, but they were so expensive, coupled with the fact that it was near the '08 melt down, that the plans were scrapped. I've heard from army friends that what forces they do have are very well trained and staffed (par for the course for European militaries, as they spend much more on selection and training of recruits).

>>35159006
I don't think that guy gets the memo on anything unless it's on Twitter.

>>35158926
>deliberately trying to destabilize a nuclear armed state

What could possibly go wrong

>>35159086
Nothing, since nobody wants to die.

>>35158996
>maintaining sizeable tank force is pointless as even if we pumped billions into it it would still be useless if say Russia decided to send guards tank army through us.
If you were alone, sure. But if you can provide even a single modern deployable armored brigade equivalent, that's a huge capability that would fit alongside other NATO forces. Especially given your location. It might take weeks to move armored brigades from Britain and the US, and lord knows how long it'd take the Germans to scrounge up something from their broken units.

somewhere in poland. I never get why in these scenarios people think that europeans would continue to sit on their asses with regards to defence if the US was no longer offering protection from the russians. if the US went isolationist and didnt intervene in europe you'd see significant investment across the board in the european militaries

>>35159123
We already are.
It won't help NATO's abysmal readiness state.

>>35159134
>we already are
yeah.. okay mate, whatever you say

>>35159046
>would
Did. The T-72M4CZ is literally considered third generation tank. And we originally planned to upgrade all the T-72s we had left (around 300 iirc) and the finance was not really an issue, atleast not in the sense that it would be some unrealistic amount that we couldnt afford.

It was combination of domestic political and public opposition - "why would democratic, peace loving, pacifist country need 300 tanks - purely offensive weapons?" and the fact we entered NATO "why the fuck would we need to spend billions on investing into our military when if russia invades we'll have germans and americans to count on".

Yes, our military is surprisingly well maintained, and for some fucking reason parties all across the spectrum are in agreement that it's further improvement has to be our priority. They are even getting major budget increases. Again, it comes with what it's aim is - I doubt it would be force capable of defending the country against foreign invasion - but it's a highly trained force designed to fullfill it's NATO obligations of being capable to be effectively deployed around the globe.

The relatively small size also allows it to be modernized quite rapidly - I mean we replaced Vzor 58 as standard issue rifle with CZ 805s in like three years and the military is already receiving CZ BREN 2s.

>>35159144
This isn't exactly classified information.
European defense spending has been rising, particularly, but not only, in Eastern Europe.

They're still going to get crushed, since countries in Western Europe don't know how to mobilize their troops to actually counter the threat.
They may have known during the Cold War, but that knowledge is either forgotten or useless.

>>35159046
T-72M4cz is effect of very bad allocation of resources. Back of vehicle was remade for western engine, whole steering system was replaced, program was done by inexperienced repair works. And Czechs were left with T-72M with reactive armor, little higher speed and more accurate gun for ridiculous price.

Btw, there were rumors, that Czechs would buy used Spanish Leo's 2s or Israeli Sabra M-60 Patton modernization, but it seems, that no upgrades will be done in near future.

>>35158168
UK and France have nukes. So the answer is that Russia would never attempt it.

>>35159086
Nobody is trying to destabilize them. They did it to themselves. They started shit in the East of the country, shot down a passenger plane, then blamed the gay agenda and Nazi CIA agents when it backfired.
Not to mention, they spent the last century doing just that in Eastern Europe, Africa and South America.
Would you actually care to address any points?

>>35159119
Realistically, we will not face ground war with Russia any time soon. As it is now, we are more useful to NATO as well trained mechanized infantry force with highly capable support infrastucture such as engineer or field hospital corps.

As >>35159187 said. It's better when our government does some remotely senible investments into things that matter now - Infantry equipment or IFVs (Although Pandurs are debatable as well). I can't even imagine how nightmarishly buying entire new fleet of tanks, or even massive upgrade of T-72s would end.

>>35159181
>They're still going to get crushed, since countries in Western Europe don't know how to mobilize their troops to actually counter the threat.
You do realize that the command structures left over from the Cold War NATO days are still on ice right? Meaning all they would have to do is activate them, put in commanders, allocate resources to them, then they're good to go.

Also, how does this part make sense?
>They're still going to get crushed, since countries in Western Europe don't know how to mobilize their troops to actually counter the threat.
They may have known during the Cold War, but that knowledge is either forgotten or useless.
You say that they've lost that knowledge of how to mobilize their troops, then go on to says it's useless? What are you getting at?

>>35159263
Also it's not like we were entirely useless just because we dont have tnaks- Sizeable portion of our military is included in the VJTF.

That's kinda neat i think.

>>35159263
>as well trained mechanized infantry
What do you think an armored formation is made of? Mixed tanks and mechanized infantry. Either on their own is not as good as them working together. And it's best if you do have some tanks to do the work with your mechanized infantry, as trying to mix multinational units together at that low scale is asking for trouble.

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>>35158461

>>35159320
I imagine friendly fire in NATO forces would be insanely prevalent.

>>35158168

Only until they reach the first blue jean factory. At which point they return home only to be placed in gulag for reeducation.

>>35159320
That is true, and again, I am just explaining why our military chose the doctrine they have. How relevant are tanks in NATO operations? I mean even US did not deploy tanks to afghanistan until like 2011 and for example Germany did not deploy them at all. And other nato missions do not require heavy armour deployment. Air policing or Kosovo do not really require them.

Obviously this attitude would bite us in the ass if there really was a ground war in europe, but right now, the pathetic token force of 30 tanks is enough to fullgill our role in NATO.

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>>35158168
The Baltics would fall, and the Russians could move into portions of Poland, but the Poles would fight like hell in hopes reinforcements from the UK, France and the Low Countries could save them.

Key questions:
Does Turkey join the West?
What are the status of the QE and CdG CSGs?
At what point do the French or British go nuclear to stop a Russian advance?

>>35159320
>>35159387
English is still the de facto language for NATO outside of France (cause France). I would imagine the people who needed to speak it would be in those positions so there is a less chance of FF incidents.
>>35159310
>>35159320
>>35159263
I think many of these smaller nations either combine to form battle groups where units are partitioned off to where they are needed, or they are attached to American units where US forces are lacking (in recent exercises in Romania, US forces had Romanian AA units as SPAAG and SHORAD protection).

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>>35158935

>Using stupid acronyms and not being able to formulate a coherent sentence or present your disjointed, deviant and retarded thought-farts.

>>35159467
CdG is in refit right now. Should be finished by the end of 2018 I think.

QE's first operational deployment is planned for 2021.

>>35159489
>coherent sentence or present your disjointed, deviant and retarded thought-farts.
Same could be said about you. You've just been making smallish statements without backing them up as to why you think that way.

>>35158322
>tfw Germany spends too much money on refugees
>tfw America protects them

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>>35159046

> heard the problem with the Czech tank force is the government made some massive, sweeping upgrades that would literally take them into baby T-90 territory, but they were so expensive, coupled with the fact that it was near the '08 melt down, that the plans were scrapped.

The T-72M4 CZ program was a total disaster. Wikipedia has a good entry:

>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-72_operators_and_variants

> Curiously, the obsolete 2A46 main gun was retained as was the original 2E28M stabilization system, which was modestly upgraded with new hydraulic drives and gyroscopic sensors, resulting in only marginal improvements in first-hit probability despite the sophisticated and expensive TURMS-T FCS. The published probability of hitting a stationary target on the move is said to be between 65-75% with the first fired round. In comparison, the Leopard 2A4 from the mid-1980s can achieve a first round hit probability on the move of 75-85% at 2,000 m and as high as 90% with a skilled crew. The original tender called for an order of 350 tanks, which was downgraded to 140 in the face of dwindling defense budgets and finally amounted to a commitment for only 35 tanks to be upgraded to the T-72M4 CZ standard. One of the reasons for this drastic reduction was due to the escalating unit cost of the upgrade—from an initial estimate of US$3.7M—and closing on a final cost of US$5.2M per tank. The reliance on foreign components and labour has also taken the original Czech contractor to the verge of bankruptcy, and the program is considered a failure by analysts according to cost-effectiveness metrics.

Holy kek.

>>35159387
I wouldn't say insanely prevalent, but it'd likely be more than if it was just a single country's forces. There are all sorts of different equipment and languages being used, and sometimes each country's network doesn't connect to the others as it's supposed to. So it'd likely have a higher incidence rate.

>>35159437
Contrary to popular opinion, tanks are great in COIN operations. Politicians and brass fall prey to the meme, but it turns out that tanks make excellent forces whose speed, armor, weaponry, and sensors makes them incredibly effective. They're not the be all end all of forces, but having armor certainly helps.

As for only 30 tanks, that's enough for a shitty Soviet-style tank battalion. Three companies of 10 tanks. It fills out an armored brigade that you have, but I'd feel more comfortable with an American style tank battalion, consisting of 3 companies of 14 tanks each and an additional two command vehicles. Just 30, while technically battalion size, is a little thin for my tastes. You've got no capability to withstand losses.

Now technically, you DO have an armored brigade consisting of two battalions of mechanized infantry and one of tanks, but the tank aspect is far too thin for my tastes. I think for your own country's tastes as well, but hey, such is life.

>>35159546

That was my first entry into this thread and the public display of your retardation.

>>35159471
English's widespread nature does make it the de jure NATO language, but that doesn't mean that language barriers don't exist. Sadly, not everyone is fluent in English.

As for smaller nations attaching smaller formations to larger allied nations, that is traditional. However, there are problems with that. It would be preferable to have separate brigades, or at least battalions.

As for the specific Romanian example you're referring to, to my knowledge the Romanian SHORAD was in Romanian units, and they were just working side by side in piecemeal style. Americans brought a couple Avengers for themselves, IIRC.

>>35158461
>They've imported millions of military age males. Surely a good portion of them will stand up for their adopted countries.

They're already fighting for the new European Caliphate.

Thanks Jews.

>>35159574
Fair point. Ah well. Luckily enough there seems to be credible talk of turning our tank arsenal into something less sad around 2020.

However I feel like no matter how many money we pump into it it'll end up as a colossal failure. I mean fucking Sabras were considered a serious contender at one point. Thankfully right now it looks like some variant of either Merkava or Leopard.

>>35159577
Care to actually contribute as to why both me and >>35158935
are retarded? Or are you just going to continue to add nothing to this discussion?

>>35159570
>from an initial estimate of US$3.7M—and closing on a final cost of US$5.2M per tank.
Holy shit.

>>35159609
>As for the specific Romanian example you're referring to,
Yeah, it's a known weakness in the US military, organic AA defense. But then again if the US Air Force is having issues gaining superiority, then we have bigger problems.

>>35159692
>Care to actually contribute as to why both me and >>35158935

I don't like stupid bullet point statements, especially ones that begin with a stupid implication. This isn't Jeopardy.

>>35159692
>Yeah, it's a known weakness in the US military, organic AA defense.
Thankfully, it looks like the military has started really focusing on eliminating it. And there are a number of very quick fixes that could be made within one to three years that would solve the SHORAD problem. Intermediate range might take 4-5 years, but those aren't as big a deal as SHORAD, IMO. The USAF can probably perform the role that said systems would fill, but probably can't fill SHORAD's role.

>>35159667
There is literally nothing wrong with Sabra.
>muh M60
it shares absolutely nothing but chassis

>>35158888
Why the fuck would anyone need sagebrush camo?
Are the injuns acting up again?

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>>35159739

>>35159766
Yes, the Stinger exists. No, it does not fill the SHORAD gap fully. MANPADS are only so good. Luckily, it turns out that you can stick an AIM-9X on a modified Avenger type system. Much better.

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>>35159829

>>35159467

Turkey throws us under the bus given the EU has turned on them pretty hardcore. I am not sure how Trump-Erdogan relations are.

I'd think the British/French would threaten nukes once the Russians start invading Germany if not sooner. Full on Soviet Bear marching into the Baltics down to Hungary would guarantee a nuclear threat if they don't stop that shit if I were the French/British head of state. A little smart nibble of the baltics you can't really justify MAD but someone trying to be a modern day Mongolian horde you sure can.

>>35159875
That fires Stingers. It's not good enough. I though me mentioning it might have been enough, but apparently, you're too dumb to read.

Could you actually try and make an argument instead of posting pictures? Or are you incapable of forming complete thoughts?

>>35159875
That's literally the same weapon as here >>35159766
It's a MANPAD. It's NOT SHORAD.

>>35159935
I mean, technically MANPADS are a SHORAD system. They just aren't a be all end all SHORAD system.

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>>35159712
>HURRR IM ON 4CHAN AND I DON'T LIKE GREENTEXT SO DONT USE GREENTEXT TO REPLY TO MY GREENTEXT

>>35159829
Also they came out with one that can fire direct energy weapons or the AIM 9X, which is a vast improvement over stinger's. The US Army is developing a bigger variant of the Avenger in that it can carry up to 19 AIM-9X Block II missiles. The vehicle goes by the name Multi-Mission Launcher (MML) and is expected to begin service in 2019.

As of right now your point about lacking SHORAD is spot on, but in the coming years we'll see a complete (or partial) return to cold war levels of modernization of the US and European armed forces. Most countries are already spending on new toys like crazy. as one example; Sweden is even expected to possibly buy the PAC-3

>>35158168
Are they trying to take EVERYTHING? If so, Poland, Sweden, Switzerland, and France would like to have a word. Ukraine would also like to have a word, but they'd lose too quickly to get any words out.

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>>35160024
MML is not the Avenger version I'm talking about. The MML is something else entirely, albeit something that does also fill the SHORAD gap. I'm talking about pic related. Which was also just unveiled with a Stryker-mounted version of it.

As you can see, it can fire AIM-9X and Hellfires, not to mention Stingers. Also just tested was the AI-3 or something along those lines, which is an Israeli missile that's a part of the Iron Dome. I'll post the Stryker in a moment. It's got a placard showing various weapons they want to put on it.

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>>35160098
>>35160024

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>>35160024
>>35160098
>>35160123

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And for comparison, the MML.

>>35159965
>technically MANPADS are a SHORAD system.
MANPADS is usually considered VSHORAD, the minimum for SHORAD is usually something like the Chaparral.

>>35160329
As far as the US goes, it's considered SHORAD. I've only heard of VSHORAD in Swedish use. I mean, I'd agree that a distinction probably is merited for specific discussion, but if we did it based on the outer edge of a modern MANPADS's range, we'd cut out all of the gun based systems, which quite understandably isn't ideal.

>America still hasn't developed a Tung-comparable DIVADs system

All this Stinger shit is giving me a laff

>>35161221
>AIM-9X + Phalanx on an M1A3 chassis

SOOOOON

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Uncle Sam why no SLAMRAAM?

>>35161460
>and here we see the Buk's inbred American cousin

Probably all the way to be honest. They'd be in France by the end of the week.

>>35158972
>negotiate for the Russian forces in Crimea to remain where they are and ask the Ukrainian government to mind the Russian minority in the East. That's it, that's all they had to do.
That was the status quo that the revolutionary government rejected.

>>35161730
>By the end of the week
How do you figure?

>>35161767
Well then i guess the Russians were shit outta luck then, next time don't treat your neighbors like vassal states.

>>35158168
Canada then they'd get to comfy.

>>35158168

>Without US involvement how far would Russia get in a Western push?


Ukraine

>>35158168
1)Yenisey river, or Pacific as that other anon mentioned. Russians are only allowed to mess with Ukraine because ensuing chaos cheapens the price. And cheap Ukie labor is needed in Western Europe, while Monsanto and jewish funds buy Ukrainian clay en masse as we speak.
2) If Muscovites try anything funny, London solely has enough strings to pull them in the leash. Say, foreign bank accounts, all the Russian wealth in UK; last but not least: family and friends of every russian oligarch in the Western Europe.
3) The nuclear dickwaving is merely a boogeyman for feeble minds; such mafiosi like Putin and his KGB cronies won't get happily ever after nuclear echange. Do You really think they would rather live in nuclear shelter instead of Cote D'Azure? (Worst case: Black Sea dacha)

>>35158168
the ocean

>>35158168
Probably as far as their own border before they run out of rations and aids strikes them down from all the buttsecks

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>>35158477

>Suck slavs dicks like no tomorrow
>French surrending meme
>Germanistan meme
>Anon, i...

Dude, Russia has a smaller gdp than motherfucking Italy.

I'm pretty sure they would not get very far in with everyone on edge

File: 1502996806423.jpg (38KB, 466x470px) Image search: [Google]

38KB, 466x470px

>>35158461

>>35158461
They didn't even stand up for their own country...

>>35158496
>UK
>instantly

I think there'd be some discreet support for letting Ivan overextend himself a bit first. Any collateral damage in central Europe would of course be very regrettable.

>>35159046
>>35159570
At this point, we would be better off adopting Ukraininian T-84 Oplot, or Polish T-17, than further looking into M4CZ. Too bad that the Spanish 2A4 Leopards turned out to be literal scrap. We will have to wait more than a decade now for something better.

>>35158168
>how far would Russia get?
...to the first captured vodka cache.

Poland heads them off in Ukraine where they are smashed and pushed back. They beg for peace in 1 week.

>>35158168
I doubt that Russia has the economic capability to wage a successful war against Western Europe, even if the US wasn't involved. If the same scenario was given to the Soviets it would be an absolute curbstomp from the mid-1950s onward.

>>35158168
Western Europe has gotten too used to peace. With conscription having been removed for decades, otherwise big countries have literally no immediate reserves of manpower and equipment. Also, since russians are on the offesive, you'd have to presume they are better prepared and raised a decent number of conscript fupport and occupation units to cover the rear. Europoors only have 4th and 4.5th gens at like 30-40% availability so it'll be a massacre in the sky.
>russians stomp the baltics in 2-3 days
>Poland does delaying actions for a week or two and retreats into Germany
>southern EU-NATO (romania, croatia, bulgaria, albania) sues for peace
>EU-NATO air forces are grounded/depleted in the first week since only France and the UK have a tripple-digit number of fighter aircraft and combat attrition in an airspace filled with heavy long-range SAM and a SU/MiG spam is a fucking bitch
>russian northern fleet breaks off into the atlantic with light losses since Harpoons are a subsonic piece of shit and P-3s are too old/few, subs wreck the trade routes
>many sieges of various national smaller units happen all over the place and hinder advance
>russians finally stopped around the rhein-alps-po line (or in eastern benelux and alsace) after 3-4 weeks by the combined total of the EU-NATO units that survive since russian supply lines implode from riots/chaos/sabotage/distance and the terrain becomes too urbanized to lead an fast advance
>most of the world collapses financially since one of the biggest market for raw and consumer goods is destroyed

>>35158227
>they run out of gas and parts.
Russia will end up becoming the largest oil producers in the world soon. Thanks to hippies. Russia will surpass America in oil production in 20 years

>>35167136
In 20 years, wow. I can't wait to see that fail for them. And then watch oil be mostly replaced in that time. I mean, I'm not big on the alternative energy bandwagon, but it's hard to imagine there won't be significant strides in two decades' time.