Based Spear man eternally BTFOs Sword cuck

>>35155288
Warhammer master race faggot.

>>35155288
IS anyone questioning this? Swords are reserved for cqc and officers. The Romans were a bit of an outlier but they had a shit-ton of discipline, incredible logistics, and unrivaled engineering

>>35155288
Ah, yes, I remember well the tale of Beowulf and the legendary spear, Hrunting...

wait.

no, I don't. A sword is the true warrior's weapon.

>>35155288
shield?

>>35155356
Remember when St. George slew a dragon with a sword? Me neither, he used a spear.

A spear is the true warrior's weapon.

>>35155347
>The Romans were a bit of an outlier but they had a shit-ton of discipline, incredible logistics, and unrivaled engineering

and even they also used spears

>>35155356
Tales of legendary swords..

>Remember when Leonidas and his 300 Spartans slaughtered 10,000 men at Thermopylae with SPEARS.

bonus points for actually happening

>>35155323
the only benefit a war hammer could possibly bring to the table is if your opponent is wearing steel plate armor which will never happen until after years of spear domination.

>>35155347
Romans used spears for most of their existence.

Gladii were adapted for a little bit and then dropped again in favor of spears.

Everyone already knows that pole arms like the spear, pike, halberd, and even the lance dominated medieval warf--

>>35155356
>MUH SWORDS, MUH HOLLYWOOD MOVIE
jesus christ. fucking americans

>>35155323
>>35155454
Aren't actual hammers for war more like 4 pounders that are the length of an arming sword? Not these twohanded sledgehammers from vidya?

>>35155405

St. Michael used a sword.

>>35155288
What do these two padded idiots have to do with actual historical warfare? They are not even trying to kill each other?

The disadvantages and advantages of each weapon in varying forms are obvious an particular to their historical epoch and the broader tactics, strategies and technologies of the era.

The only real joke is the two morons in that video and their irrelevant ritual dancing with toys. .

>>35155512
>>What do these two padded idiots have to do with actual historical warfare? They are not even trying to kill each other?

they're doing practical experiments using actual era treatises instead of being armchair generals deciding how things worked out of sheer conjecture and fantasy

also in fencing only one hit is needed to win, meaning it's the closest to death match rules you can get.

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>>35155288
>He doesn't use both a spear and a sword
Only a peasant needs to choose a favorite.

>>35155512
if you don't think that an actual fight would not go down in a very similar fashion think again,

also the sword morons have been perpetuating the myth of just cutting the spear shaft, given the speed of that fighting id say realistically that tactic is impossible.

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>hema representative of reality


yeah in battlefield you'll totally get killed with one hit by a spear its not like youll have any armour or even a shield or a buckler or anything wow

>>35155469
>beowulf
>muh hollywood

thou what, brethren?

>>35155435
>that time leonidas and 300 retards committed suicide via persians

>>35155485
yeah they were basically more like pick axes than sledge hammers

they were meant to piece armor in a lot of cases. if you needed to simply smash a man to bits with sheer brute blunt trauma, thats what horses' hooves were for

>>35155485
>Not these twohanded sledgehammers from vidya?
Huh? The only vidya I know of with war hammers that isn't literally War Hammer 40k counted its literal war hammer as a light weapon that recycled animations from the rapiers and short swords (i.e. broadswords rather than greatswords)

only WH4k and Fallout treat hammers as LE SUPER SLEDGE and even then WH40k generally treats hammers as one-handed but magically enhanced to rattle whole battle tanks apart because muh warp

>>35155546
>just cutting the spear shaft


>cutting a dowel or even straightened tree limb with a swipe of a sword

it takes like a good half-minute or so to saw apart a normal inch thick dowel with a normal modern saw, do these fucks think swords just slice things in two instantly like in anime???

All the sword beta needs to do is get past the point of the spear but he's being a cuck and fighting at exactly 5 ft. in the optimum range for the spear.

>>35155288
The spear and other long polearms of it's type (such as the lance and halberd) were so much more effective in armed combat that they actually remained in service to multiple military forces around the world until about a decade after World War 1. Even after the invention of the machine gun, several militaries still saw the merit of a charging squad of men armed with long spears. Militaries still even issue bayonets for using a rifle as a spear. That alone should stand as a prime example of why the spear is, was, and remains the superior melee weapon.

>>35155288
>how can the the swordophiles defended this
Try using shields.

Also shield has important point people often miss. Ranged weapons. Fencing is fun and all but even bets of the best and stronegst can die to rock thrown by kid. Carrying missiles protection was mandatory for war. Pre full plate armors shield is necessary gear of war.

>>35155532
Haha oh really? In what situation outside the farcical and unlikely will you ever get an actual unarmored sword and tiny-ass buckler meeting an unarmored single spear user on the field of battle? You HEMfags are completely delusional.

A sword is just a spear with a really really short shaft.

>>35155288
swords are expensive status symbols, there's a reason the vast majority of soldiers throughout history have been armed with spears or pikes

>>35155288
>spear beats sword

Everybody who isn't a raging anime faggot knows this.

>>35156164
well it also doesnt take nearly as much time or training to learn how to effectively use a spear in combat. you could train and equip a lot of men in a very short time with very little expense. it was also a great way to transport a very large stockpile of weapons a very long distance because you could just remove the spearhead and carry it and fashion a new shaft once you reached the battlefield. Pretty handy when you have several hundred soldiers marching for 3 to 5 days straight to some other assholes lands with no more supplies than what they can carry on their back. Lighter and more compact gear = more gear and supplies.

>>35155435
>muh spoortans!
>muh tree fitty!
Remember when the bulk of the Greeks at that battle weren't Spartan?

>>35156304
>Remember when the bulk of the Greeks at that battle weren't Spartan?

Pretty sure the majority of them were using spears, too.

>Not using a Bill

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>>35156288
>you could just remove the spearhead and carry it and fashion a new shaft once you reached the battlefield

>>35156288
Conscripts masses are not medieval or ancient warfare. They were fought by warrior caste mostly because many reason.

Learning how it use spear and shield is not that easy. Without shields soldiers are to easy target fro missiles weapons. Disarming soldiers from their personal weapons during march is pure insanity.

>>35156288
you realize making shafts for spears and similar weapons was such a specialized skill that people spent their entire adolescence in apprenticeship to become a poleturner right

If he had been using a Dragon Dildo, the fight would have been even more one sided.

what's wrong with HEMA? It's all just for fun, spears aren't popular because they're hard to safely spar with like any pole weapon. It's not like either weapon has any practicality whatsoever anyway

>>35155356
Odin used a spear

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>>35155356

There's a shit ton of legendary and mythological spears, dummy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mythological_objects#Pole_weapons

>>35156624
Not to be an autist but he also had a magic sword and bow as well as gungnir. He was a war god. As someone said earlier patricians don't have to choose.

>>35156032
>Haha oh really? In what situation outside the farcical and unlikely will you ever get an actual unarmored sword and tiny-ass buckler meeting an unarmored single spear user on the field of battle?

China of course

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>>35155288
>dominate single combat

Until someone gets past the tip and/or round your side. Hence phalanxes. While I agree that the spear is often overlooked and wrongly seen as a simple peasant tier weapon, I don't believe it dominated single combat. People used what worked and was most effective at the end of the day because their lives depended on it.

>>35155830
browsing liveleak makes me think swordfights between armored guys meant getting hacked at. Nobody ever loses a hand or anything.

https://www.liveleak.com/browse?q=machete+fight

>>35155512
>What do these two padded idiots have to do with actual historical warfare?

Demonstrating the potential advantage weapon range has over an opponent.

This clearly demonstrates why the ancient Greeks adopted and became successful with the sarissa, and why the pike and pole arm later became the weapon of choice in Europe.

No reason to sperg out the way you are....

>>35155751
>nobody ever died in a melee wearing body armor

>>35155485
Technically the big two handers should be called Mauls.

>>35155288
They're also easier for people to master. You can train a peasant to use a spear in a span of a couple of weeks. You also have extra reach and can use the pole itself as a an impromptu shield to deflect sword strikes.

>>35155356
HAHA

Gungnir

FAIL, SO MUCH FAIL

>>35157164
ritual mating dance of the gay?

>>35156624
And he also lost an eye, so...

>>35155408
Even the sword guys had throwing spears.

>>35157067

A wooden dowel is much stronger than flesh and bone you dunce. You can easily, yes, easily break a man's arm, shatter his knee, or crack his skull with wooden dowel. Also, the spear is moving around, not staionary or held down on a chopping block, making it exponentially more difficult to cut. Think of it like swiping at free hanging rope, versus tight, rigid rope that's held on place and up against a log.

>>35155887
Shields don't preclude spears. The entirety of Greek warfare was based around using dudes with bigass shields and spears.

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>>35155288
Where my fellow halberdiers at?

>>35156164
>swords are expensive status symbols
ya maybe before 1300

>>35157511
This. The mid to late medieval period saw advancements in smithing that made swords fairly cheap and relatively available. They were common items, often worn/carried daily by commoners and in some areas, lords even legally required a man to own a sword, spear, and shield for use should he be called on for militia.

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Step one
>Dont fight a guy with a spear if all you have a buckler and pig sticker
Step two
>buy plate armor
Step three
>Buy an axe.

>>35157555
This. And after the Black Death a surplus of second hand swords became plentily available.

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>>35155288
*immobilize the spearman*

>>35155288
yeah the spear is bretty gud it's hard to crack open but that guy is better than your average dumbass with a pointy stick by miles. anyone who disses the spear is a fool, but in the end it's mostly about skills and luck.

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I keep a bag of these on me at all times, I could probably kill like 5 Samurai at once.

>>35157652
>only 5 samurai
one samurai could kill 10 of the kings guard with the draw of the glorious Nippon steel.

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>>35157351

>>35157511
They continued to be throughout the 18th century.

>>35157750
Yes that's the typical hema dancer. Exactly.

>>35157484
>Greek warfare was based around using dudes with bigass shields and spears.

I always wondered how they employed them with any degree of effectiveness since they were using them one handed. I guess they just used an overhand grip and kinda' just poked at each other from behind the first ranks and hoped for the best.

>>35157761
More like the typical junior high school kid that feels the need to shit up every thread on 4chan, like you.

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>>35157785
The shields changed over time and ended up commonly having little dips or rests on them for leaning the spear, effectively acting like a second hand. Pretty sure they learned that trick off the Persians.

>>35157785


>>35157875

That and the long spears were balanced using a variety of methods (shaft length, tapering, counter weights, etc.) . You'd be surprised how easily held/carried/thrusted a pole arm is with only one hand when it's properly balanced

>>35155288

European knights and Japanese Samurai went into battle with polearms. Full stop. No one went into battle with just a sword like in Game of Thrones. The only exceptions I can come up with are the Romans but they generally used their swords like short spears anyway and the guys possibly using great swords to knock pikes around during the pike and shot era. Everyone from the lowliest footman to the most Noble knight carried a polearm.

Knights CARRIED swords, but if they had to draw that on the field they were fucked anyway.

Also, calvary didn't charge into formations like in Lord of the Rings, so no, they wouldn't swing their swords from horse back. They would ride in with a Lance and "graze"the flanks of a formation and pick off a guy, their Lance would break and the formation of horses would circle around. Guys needing new lances would go to their squire who would have several lances.

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>>35155356
He doesn't know about the Holy Spear of Saint Longinus.

>>35157933
>You'd be surprised

Nah, but it just seems that they would be easily deflected and not have much penetrating power with just one arm, as you don't really have that much leverage. You look at the average hoplite, and the available targets are pretty small to hit with an overhand poke.

All that changes, of course, when you're fighting Asian peasants with wicker shields wearing pajamas...

>>35157952
>but they generally used their swords like short spears anyway
Wat.

There were also the so called rodeleros, shield and swordsmen meant to break up pike formations. It didn't work very well nor last very long.

>>35155288
They call sword fighting techniques "fencing" from the same root as the word defence. It's a sidearm, and yes, it's inferior to a polearm in mass combat, but there are many situations where it is the superior weapon, and unless you are actively campaigning, those situations are far more common than the situations where spears have the advantage.

What good is a spear left in the rack when a pair of muggers demand your purse? What good is a spear in the cart when you are ambushed in the forest?

In single combat, a sword has a higher skill floor, but a spear has a higher skill cap. You can't allow the swordsman to pass your point, which forces you to retreat before him, all well and good, but you'd better know you're on a smooth prepared surface when you're forced to walk backwards.

You can choke up on your spear but you'll never match a sword for speed or precision when your butt end is waving several feet behind you.

>>35155288
Yeah but its huge and clusmy as hell. Imagine carrying that shit everywhere in public. Plus spears are easy as hell to parry since there so damn long

>>35157952
The pilum were the first and second encounters with the enemy. By the time a horde of angry Romans with swords hit you a significant portion of your formation was killed or wounded by Roman spears.

>>35155288

It's almost like being able to reach out and touch someone who cant reach out and touch you wins fights...

Why do you think we have far more rifles in war than pistols?

>>35155532
>in fencing only one hit is needed to win
As a fencer, fuck you for 1) lumping the three very distinct fencing types together, and for 2) being horribly wrong

Swords are sidearms to anyone who isn't a legionairre carrying a 30lb shield and 8 different kinds of javelin, a drunk landsknecht too special snowflake to carry a halberd, or a Spaniard whose only job is to sprint around an engaged pike formation to stab them in the back.

That being said shitposting about how spears are better in a sword thread is as retarded as saying rifles are stupid because infantry battles are won with mortars and machine guns

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>>35155456

>>35158424
>mehmehmehmehmehmeh i'm a fencer please rape my face

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>>35155779

>>35156960
>Until someone gets past the tip
>what is retracting the tip and choking up on the spear

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>>35155356
WAIT TILL HE SEES ODIN'S GUNGIR

>>35158178
True about lack of leverage, but the thrust power is still huge. Your support hand doesn't really help all that much when driving a spear forward. In fact, thrusting with your main hand and letting the spear slide through your support hand is a crazy fast, very powerful strike. Most of the Power comes from the mass anyway. this is just IMO from my limited experience sparring with period weapons

>>35155288
LITTLE

Why do these larpers always use shields the size of pot lids

Spears have always SHIT on swords in unarmored duels. The thing is, if you have armor you can riposte a spear easilly enough, and nothing without blunt force trauma will hurt you. Lucernes/halberds can pierce armor, but are way easier to block than a spear.

>>35160037
Dark souls parry spam

>>35159729
Hitting your little brother with a broom doesn't count as sparring with period weapons connor.

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>>35158645
Your recommend pulling the spear backwards so your just wielding the tip and half the pole? You would literally give up its only advantage? See how far half a spear gets you in combat with a trained swordsman.

>>35160084

Your cute. You can stay.

Does anyone actually make a GOOD throwing spear or boar spear? I mean good metal with proper forging, not a machine stamped.

>>35160251
Considering that you only do it if he gets past the tip initially, yes, it's a good idea. You're not giving up your advantage, you're removing your sudden disadvantage and are again presenting the tip, with which to attack or ward off the foe, after which you return back to normal grip when possible. Is this complex?

>>35158424
Hes not talking about your retarded sport.

>>35160251
https://youtu.be/l2YgGY_OBx8?t=5m6s

>mordhau
>muh master swordsman meme
how to spot someone who doesn't actually train with weapons 101

>spears are superior to swords
Welcome to August 2, 216 BCE

Oh geez this this .308 vs 5.56 all over again,

>MUH WEIGHT
>MUH CARRY CAPACITY
>MUH BASICALLY THE SAME TERMINAL PERFORMANCE

sword tards are the same as 5.56 meme tards
pretty soon there will be barrier blind sword options HAHA

>>35161578

dont forget

>MUH recoil

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*chops through your spear wall*

>>35156032
Not all combat situations are battlefields. You're a fucking moron to think that

>indoor combat

Spears only work if you see your enemy before they are in range. They win most engagements in that situation, but it's a glaring weakness.

>>35161718
>Indoors
That's even better for the spearman. Now you're stucking moving in the same line as the spear is pointed

>>35161718
>Spears only work if you see your enemy before they are in range.

Even if there was any truth to that, a swordsman would practically be right on top of the spearman before he sees him for the sword to have any degree of effectiveness.

>>35161609
t. anime-tier logic

>>35161747
>bat spear away
>now just have a useless stick

>>35161892
And then he pulls the spear back because it's faster to pull a spear back and thrust in a different place than to recover from a sword swing and ready another cut

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>>35160251

Idiot.

Retracting the tip is basic spear combat. And with fighting with a shield (or whatever else you're carrying), you're almost always gripping at the spear at half-shaft anyway.

>>35161892
Sure, if you completely ignore that the spearman is able to pull back the spear tip.

>>35161573

Both armies used mixed spear and sword units at Cannae

Rome had Hastati and Principe swordmen and Triarii spearmen and Hannibal had Libyan spearmen, carthaginian phalanxes, celtic swordmen and iberian scutiarii.

>>35161892
They've done tons of tests, chopping a spear head off of a spear is almost never successful. Even if you clamp the spear in a vice and chop at it, it won't always break the shaft, and that is nothing like a combat situation.

When a human is holding the spear, and a sword strikes it, it moves with the blow, absorbing a lot of the force. The spearhead will likely never be cut off in this manner.

In the OP video the spear definitely has the advantage over a buckler, which is a very small shield. I think the swordman would do better with a larger round shield.

So how is Mordhau?
Anyone got to play in closed alpha?

>>35158599
you do realise, that the epic poem of Beowulf is well over 1000 years old?

>>35155874
>doesn't understand how easy and fast it is to retract a spear and stab at much closer ranges

>>35161573
>BCE
fedora pls go

>>35162627
He's a europoor. Probably from a shithole like the UK, so it's doubtful.

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>niggas not knowing about spears
>my face and soul when

>>35155486
But St George is the saint of the solider

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>>35155546
>>35155830
>>35157067
>>35157432
Not sure if samefaging, or if you two are arguing the same point.

>>35160053
>and nothing without blunt force trauma will hurt you.
did you learn that from video games or movies?

>>35162722
And St Michael is the saint of fencers.

>>35155288
Everyone knows this. A sword is a sidearm, its main advantage is that you can wear it while carrying a spear (or a bow, or a gun, or loading a canon)

the bad thing about spears is thier unwieldiness during traveling, transportation. you just have to hold the fucker with your arms.

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>>35162821
>you just have to hold the fucker with your arms.
...Or you could just use a fucking sling if you're that much of a little bitch.

Fuck, a military unit could just load up a wagon or small boat with spears for the entire unit if they wanted. Spears store quite nicely.

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>>35155288
OP is fpbp. Iliad related.

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>>35161987
I'm sure you know all about gripping shafts properly

>>35162140
He'd be better off dropping the buckler, a free hand and arm to trap the spear would be much more useful.

It's a shit video for a few reasons, one being that the swordsman neither attacks nor retreats effectively.

>>35162658
It's hard as fuck to get a spear back into a useful guard when you go at full extension like video retard does. Trying to use a spear tends to remind someone that people won't stand at your reach fighting the end of the spear unless you've paid them to.

>>35157389
Willingly gave an eye as a sacrifice*

Riddle me this: If the spear was really so uber effective against swords in single combat why weren't spears used as a matter of course in all duels? If your life depended on it you'd go by effectiveness not aesthetics.

>>35163156
In a duel both people use the same weapon. I was going to discuss why swords were popular for dueling but then i realized your basic point was fundamentally flawed and i saw my opening, my attack.

>>35163156
I guess pistols are superior firearms to long guns

>>35163062
"I don't have an argument so lets call the anon gay!"

>>35163187
I accept your concession.

>>35163156
Spears are annoying to carry around in day to day life, same reason pistols were used rather than rifles in duels.

>>35163187
>implying the anon wasn't referring to masturbation.

>>35163156
A sword isn't juste aesthetic, it's practical and sometimes, practical is better than effectiveness. The best weapon is the one you have, polearms and such are just too cumbersome.

Also duels were fought with spears in the Middle-Ages, well spear/sword/dagger more precisely. Since a duel is a pre-arranged fight, you'd use the same weapon, but civilians were usually better swordsmen than they were spearmen so...

>>35163156
Swords were easier to carry around for EDC in the same way people carry a Glock or a Shield instead of an AR or SKS so more people had swords because they weren't on some battlefield. Dueling is very different from battlefield combat since it's a much more controlled environment normally with only the two combatants fighting each other and it being over as soon as one of them wins. Also, dueling wasn't restricted to swords and pistols -- they were only just the most popular.

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>>35155288
- You can't carry spears around in civilian contexts.
- Shields and armour are a game changer.
- Literally every spearman would have a sword by his side because swords are side-arms which technically don't compete with spears and only a moron uneducated in history would think so and start retarded threads like this.

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>>35163344

Swords are menacing and heavy, they also only have one realistic purpose and are more impractical to conceal.

Walking sticks with attachable spears are however multi functional and still more effective than any sword

>sword guys getting BTFO harder in this thread than fencer in the vid

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>>35163344
>swords are side-arms

This. As a soldier, your main weapon is something fit for mass combat, like a bow or a polearm or something. You have a sword as an emergency backup, in case plan A fails, and you suddenly find >>35157573 running at you and screaming.

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Sabercucks BTFO

>>35163445

The weapon continuum should be
>long spear
> short spear
> knife

The sword has tons of extra metal and weight when the last 6 inches does all the damage..

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>>35163492
That would be why arrows are not mostly made of metal, yes. They're like spears that you can shoot at people.

>>35163492
A short spear isn't exactly better than a sword and is twice as cumbersome.
Also, you do you understand center of percussion and blade dynamics?

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Spear. The most boring of polearms.

Personally, I love naginatas.

>>35155288
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NnGQH0PGoKo

Watch someone who isn't a faggot take on a spearman with a rapier. If you stay in the area he can stab at you're playing his game. Once your inside his guard he's fucked no matter how fast you he retract the spear.

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>>35163540
>not including the Lochaber axe.

>>35163572
Ok, is there a sparring demonstration or is he just going to show techniques as they should be applied?

Also. since were here. W2c spear?

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>>35163583
>Muh special snowflake Scottish voulge

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>>35163606
B-b-but ours had a special hook and no one really knows what it was used for.

>>35155288
>Spear
>Buckler
>Warhammer at belt

you are now prepared to fight any enemy anytime on any battlefield.

>>35163679
*gets shot*

>>35155347
yea i dont really get hte point. Hundreds of years of combat proved spears are far more effective, dont think anyone is denying that.

>>35155539
>plate steel
>sword
Why bother?

>>35163572

The spear guy was half trying and still won several times haha

>>35156960
> teleports behind your spearhead

Psh, nothing personal kid.

>>35163688
assuming you wearing plate fuckstick, other than than i guess artillery, but that shit took down walls so unless you're HulkingChad your fucked.

Everyone knows that lances beat swords

However, axes beat lances, and swords beat axes

its just common sense my dude

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>>35163572
Holy shit, that video is a joke.

Not only was the spearman moving at half-speed, he made no effort to retract the tip or even leverage the shaft to parry.

Secondly, for his hypothesis to even work in a real combat, not only does it have to assume that the spearman is a complete novice and weakling, it would require swordsman to hold the sword in a very unconventional way and basically telegraphing what he wants to do and what he's waiting for.

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>>35163699

>>35163700
>Assuming plate
>Not assuming .45-70

>>35163572
Sparring without protection is "ten secret moves to defend yourself against knife attack tier". Anyone doing this should not be taken seriously.

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>>35163694
Because it's pointy and you can thrust it into gaps between the plates.

>>35163807
>when u forget ur gorget

>>35155486
A sword on a stick.

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>>35163700
https://youtu.be/bQPpBG7xNhI?t=87

Even without AP rounds, modern rifles would cut through any plate armor you could wear, and AP rounds would pass though armor even heavier than you could ever hope to wear.

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This thread:
> Based SAW gunner eternally BTFOs Handgun cuck.
>>How can handgunphiles defend this...

This thread is retarded.
Swords were sidearms. Spears were main battle weapons. Main battle weapon beats sidearm. Oh wow, I'm so surprised, oh no, better post on 4chins.

>inb4 roman gladius
They didn't just use a gladius. They used a giant fucking scutum and drilled formation.

>>35163445
Unrelated to comment, but if English bowmen were so deadly and great why did the French win the Lancastrian War? Why did the French with 1,500 troops beat the English at Patay when they had 5,000 primarily the bowmen?

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>>35163938
>They didn't just use a gladius. They used a giant fucking scutum and drilled formation.

As opposed to spearmen, who'd never bother with shields, formation fighting, or anything like that? I mean you clearly ain't one of the utter retards when it comes to spears, so why this resistance to accepting that on occasion swords were main battle weapons too?

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>>35163938

>>35155356
Just like the sword they used to stab Jesus on the cross. Oh wait....

>>35156612
I guess HEMA is useful if you live in a nogunz country. Go medieval on thieves.

I'd like to see you do this with a sword...

https://youtu.be/BbnFnTmCEfY

>>35155288
>shield
>small buckler
>not even used for arrows, they just hide behind someone else
>spear defense
yeah nah this class is shit and the only good person there is the guy recording steadily

you expect "WOOOOOOOOOHOOOO YEHAW GETEM" from this setting from a cameraman

>>35164517
>not even used for arrows, they just hide behind someone else
>I don't know what bucklers are for: the post

>>35163955
Do you have learning difficulties? The fact that spearmen also fought in formation and sometimes used shields, and the fact that cavalry sometimes used swords, does not contradict anything I have said nor does it invalidate the fact that swords *alone* were rarely used as a main battle weapon.

A sword and a large shield is not the same as a sword alone. A sword and a horse is not the same as a sword alone.

Clearly there are exceptions, and I don't know where you pulled out this notion that anyone here is reluctant to accept those exceptions (and you failed to point out any of them).

>>35163965
That's a polearm, you mongoloid. Give a zweihander to the guy in OP's video and they would both be on equal footing.

>>35155288
Spear
>1/15 of weapon has blade
>two hands required for full utility
>Minimal defensive capability
>Formation use limits combat to one direction for majority of units, corner units are woefully unsupported.

Sword
>90% of weapon is edge
>one handed use for 90% of effective uses
>two handed use possible, but not required
>Design allows for maximum defense as well as the use of defense-specific tools
>Formation use is much more versatile, corner units better able to support themselves

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>>35155485
wrong this is what actual warhammers looked like

>>35160962
>I mean good metal with proper forging, not a machine stamped.
>Good forging
>Not machine stamped

This is how all forgings are done. The only difference lies in how many different dies it goes through before it's finished.

>>35155454
>>35155485
Typical wrhammer had a face on par with a modern framing hammer (~18-24 oz) just mounted on either a 3 foot or 7 foot stick.

>>35155809
Warhammer =/= pick
Picks are AP weapons.
Warhammers are meant to either damage the armor to the point that it siezes or actually crush the body parts under it by malforming the armor. Put a big enough dent in a helm and the skull under it will crack too. Also, if you hit a man in maile or light plate (wisby coat-of-plates) with a hammer, then "the armor, it does nothing!" occurrs.

Splintered ribs, ruptured abdominal organs, shattered spines and broken legs are all debilitatiing if not killing wounds in a pre-medical science civilization.

>>35164653
>>35155809
>>35155485
>Warhammer =/= pick
>Picks are AP weapons.
Typical 15-17th century warhammer had pick on one side and hammer on another. Same for typical one handed war axe. Pick on one side, axe on teh another
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H47nY2hBOww

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>>35164582

>>35164814
>pick on one side and hammer on another
please note that you can only use one side at a time. The Pick-Hammer is the Swiss Army knife of the battlefield for that time period.

>>35164653
Apparently it occasionally happened that a knight would get smashed in the face with a hammer and it would malform the helmet into his face and suffocate him while he tried to desperately claw it off his head. Fucking grim.

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Yes the spear was the queen of the ancient battlefield until the it was displaced by the rifle and rifle beats pistol 9/10 but carrying a spear or rifle all day everyday is more hassle than it's worth most of the time. So unless you're heading to battle chances are you'll carry a sword which hangs neatly on your belt or back.

>>35155288
This isn't news. Someone trained with a bo can defeat literally any melee/martial art basically every time. The only thing that is better is like some shaolin-level training in a 3-section-staff, but until you reach like jackie li the air blender level of training, bo will still kill you.

>>35164582
When you raise a fuss about the sword being used with a shield or in formation it suggests that this makes it not a proper main battle weapon because of this. Yet use of shields and fighting in formation isn't something special about swords. Spear and shield was a real big thing, does the shield make the spear not a proper "main battle weapon"? The pike is utter shite outside of tight formations, does that make it less of a battle weapon? The medieval cavalry lance would often have been used with both shield and horse, so that's a double strike against it?

Of course not. Weapons were used in battles along with other gear and tactics suitable for battle. That's obvious and natural. But for swords it suddenly becomes something to dismiss them by in your post, and that's bullshit. At least you've got enough sense to realise that just tossing all swords in the sidearm bracket wouldn't work, and stepped back into the sane "rarely" fold.

>>35165155
And if you are going to battle odds are you either have, or really want to have, a sword hanging off your belt in case that spear or whatever of yours break, gets stuck, or you find yourself with angry people a good deal closer to you than you can easily retract your pikehead.

every fucking thread there is always some dumbfucks replying but muh warhammer muh polearm muh halberd

all easily defeatable with a wooden staff held by a trained soldier. slow heavy and unbalanced weapons.

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>>35165155
>you will never operate in a fantasy universe, assault rifle in your hands, magic sword on your back, slaying dragons and pussy wherever you go

Feels bad, man.

>>35165083
In centuries of the distant past, there is no peace, only war.

>Grimdarkages

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>>35165240
*dies a terrible death and doesn't respawn*

>>35165234
>every fucking thread there is always some dumbfucks replying but muh warhammer muh polearm muh halberd

When the thread is started by some dumbfuck going "muh spear" it rather fits.

>>35164615
GODS MY SON IS STRONG

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>>35157573
>butted mail
>goddamn larping neckbeards

shiggitydiggitydo

>>35165941
It's not like riveted maile is going to stand up to any serious abuse better than butted. ANd riveted takes 4 times as long to make and is 5 times as as expensive.

>>35156528
is this a dick joke?

>>35163700
>muh armor

>>35155822
In 40k the hammers are MINING TOOLS that have a shitton of bling on them and use ultrasonic shockwaves to pulp a target.

>>35164594
>implying spears aren't effective with one hand
>implying spears can't be used defensively
>implying you know anything about military formations
>implying swords aren't normally a secondary weapon
>implying swordsmen use most of the edge during combat

Fucking anime-tier logic right there.

>>35165155
>So unless you're heading to battle chances are you'll carry a sword which hangs neatly on your belt or back.

So basically: Swords are better for LARPing.

>>35166001
>It's not like riveted maile is going to stand up to any serious abuse better than butted.
yes it will dipshit
>>35165941
You also forgot the piss-poor armour maintainance
why the fuck did he let everything rust, he should be hanged for that

>>35157389
to gain knowledge of future,past and present

>>35166545
>You also forgot the piss-poor armour maintainance
>why the fuck did he let everything rust, he should be hanged for that
surface rust is just part of life. So much mail was made of the centuries that tons of the shit was just laying around to be used. Mail just rust, it happens. you can oil it but then your covered in oil when you put it on.

There is nothing ridiculous about this and a little surface rust can protect it from real rust.

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>>35157498
best polearm

What about svärdstavs? Are those any good or is it just gimmick trash?

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>>35168097

>>35163694
Turn it around and you have a warhammer. Once you're done killing armored opponents you grab it by the dull end and go back to slaughtering poorfags

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>>35168368
It's basically a spear with a really long blade you can cut more effectively than a normal spear with.

>>35168513
No, you don't have a warhammer. You have an improvised mace that you'd only use if you didn't have an actual mace or warhammer.

>>35166001
Riveted mail will actually work as armor. Butted mail is for costumes

>>35168496
Honestly, you'd be better off with a conventional pole weapon that is meant to be used for slashing like a halberd or a bill hook.

>>35168557
>Butted mail
Japs used that shit; really says something

>>35155323

Polehammer or GTFO.

>another thread full of theorycrafting video gamers who've never stabbed anyone
do you even know what you look like?

>>35168557
Butted mail was used in Japan and India.

Not as strong as riveted, but can work.

>>35155288
What if we... put a sword... on the tip... of the spear...

>>35168633
it would make the sword 10x better.

It'll make the spear 1000x worse.

Do the math.

Valyrian steel spears aren't a thing.

Checkmate atheists.

>>35168671
What if we... made the sword... the length... of the spear...

>>35168633
a spear is usually just a knife with a long handle
or a bo staff with a knife on top
how big of a knife do you need before you call it a sword

What if we take the spear and make it out of metal. Then hollow it out.

Then insert a ball of malleable metal into it with some sort of explosive behind it then cap it off

make some way of igniting the explosive to propel the projectile

I think I may have just revolutionized infantry combat.

>>35156624
>>35156899
To be clear, Odin used a HEWING-spear. No actual desctription of this weapon is known to exist, but from the name, I'm pretty certain it was a proto-halberd.

Hew - Hyoo; verb
1: to chop or cut (something, especially wood) with an ax, pick, or other tool.

Hewing - Hyoo-ing; verb
1: to strike forcibly with an ax, sword, or other cutting instrument; chop; hack.

Thus a hewing spear would be a spear capable of chopping or hacking. Sounds like an axe with a spear tip which is a pretty apt description of a halberd.

>>35157389
>lost an eye
>Traded one eye to be able to see the past, future and understand the workings of magic and the runes
FIFY

>>35157067
THOR'S FUCKING TEETH!

NONE of those faggots traipsing around in the foreground have one shred of situational awaerness.

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>>35169055
>Sounds like an axe with a spear tip which is a pretty apt description of a halberd.

A spear designed for hewing is not a halberd or pole axe, dummy.

Spearheads can be made for slicing/chopping. These types are typically broader and longer.

Also,
>Odin used a HEWING-spear.
Citation needed

>>35155751
You do understand that in a pre-medical science society ANY penetrative wound to the torso was effectively a death sentence, right? Punctured or nicked organs that are immediately infested with biota from the weapon that has probably been rubbed down with dirt, or some sort of rancid animal fat to prevent rusting. Hell RUST which is a breeding ground for a host of microorganisms like tetanus, never mind that a punctured stomach, kidney or spleen meant a slow agonizing death, or a relatively fast agonizing one if it was a punctured liver or lung. Even if the wound managed to completely miss all the organs, pertonitis would set in and would almost always result in death.

You do understand that it's not possibel to armor the lower leg well enough to prevent breaks from blunt weapons or to prevent having the limb lopped off by sharp ones, right? something like 70% of all medivial battlefield casualties suffered lost or broken lower limbs in addition to any other wounds they might have received. Broken legs lead to pneumonia from laying in bed for so long while the limb heals and missing ones generally cause the victim to bleed to death within a few minutes.

With no ability to perform safe craniotomies and no imaging equipment even the mildest of TBIs were a chancy thing at best. A somple subdural hematoma that could be solved by drilling a hole in the skull at the point of pressure was unknown and even if tried would most likley have resulted in the patient's death from post-operative sepsis.

And NONE of this takes shock into account which often causes the body to just shut down after a severe injury, preventing the wounded from dealing with the trauma. Imagine that, you've got years of training in how to deal with a severed hand, and yet, when yours is severed, your own body prevents you from slapping a tournequet on the arm.

So yeah, one solid thrust from a spear CAN fucking kill you, even if you have armor.

>>35166545
How much stress testing have YOU done on the matter?

>>35168981
kek
>1364 called, it wants you to stop infringing on it's patent.

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>>35168633
There is nothing new under the sun.

>>35169258
not every injury gets infected and not all infections are fatal.

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>>35169055
>Odin used a HEWING-spear
>No actual desctription of this weapon is known to exist
Hmmm.

>>35169437
No, not EVERY wound and not EVERY infection. But 90+% of them. Midevial battlefields are a filthy, disgusting places even without soldiers there, bleeding and spitting and shitting all over the place. If I stab a man in the bowels and then stab you in the arm, the odds are that you will wind up with his shit in your bloodstream. This will almost invariable cause you to develop some sort of infection and that infection is most likely going to kill you. Yes, you might survive it. Yes, the meat flaps from where I stabbed him may have done an adequate job of wiping the blade clean as I pulled it out.

But that is a LOT of "ifs" and "maybes".

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>tfw born too late to participate in glorious battle against your kings enemies before returning to your castle and fucking a harem of wenches while impregnating your wife to carry on your lineage and die at the ripe old age of 40 having lived a full and compelte life
>tfw instead born in a time where life has been extended and you are forced to live twice a as long as you should in a society where nothing of any meaning ever happens to anyone in a vapid society that is on cruise control to the demise of our once great species
>tfw I can't procreate because feminism has made women bitchy, unappealing, degenerate whores with no virtue and I can't kill myself because feminism has created an environment where I was raised too much of a coward to do what has to be done.

Life is suffering.

>>35169258
You realise the spear thrusts shown in the video couldn't even go through a gambeson?
and you realise people back in the day had herbbal medicines, and knew to clean out wounds, right?

>>35169055
Considering that Gungnir has never been described to used in a such a manner, I'm going to have to infer that you are full of shit and implore you to fuck off with shitty fanfic headcanon.

>>35169287
Nope, it's got a bayonet, so it's closer to 1650 (for widespread adoption, anyways).

>>35169549
>But 90+% of them
That's vastly overinflated from what we know. Otherwise practically no one would have survived any wounds at all, and we know that's simply not true. Even in the worst of cases, usually where gangrene sets in, you can usually save the person's life by taking off the extremity.

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>>35169573
>tfw I can't procreate because witchcraft has made women bitchy, unappealing, degenerate whores with no virtue and I can't kill myself because witchcraft has created an environment where I was raised too much of a coward to do what has to be done.

Incels. Incels never change.

why did knights use swords?
was it because it ssuperior for chopping people up from horseback?
they used lances too though right

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Sword guys arguments are getting flayed harder than their bodies would be in single combat

>MFW

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I think a winged spear would be better at single combat, more disarming techniques

>>35169828
On horse, the primary weapon was the lance. It was much superior to the sword. However, often a lance would break after you hit a single person with it. It definitely won't last for long. So people carried swords for when their lances broke, so they'd have a weapon to use before they rode back to grab another lance.

As for why swords were probably more widely used as a sidearm than other weapons, it's got a nice long part of the weapon that is dangerous- all of it. They're also very easy to carry, and can be kept with you even if you do dismount, as they are mounted to you, and not to the horse's saddle.

That's not to say that other sidearms didn't exist, but they usually were carried in addition to swords. These would generally be specialized anti-armor weaponry, such as maces or specialized warhammers.

>>35169707
Amputation as late as the 1860's had about a 50% success rate. Shock, post-operative infection and blood-loss all lead to death, even if the gangrene is excised.

Blood transfusions, advanced understanding of anesthesia and the means to manage it as well as the understanding of germ theorey AND the ability to create a sterile fields all contributed to improved battlefield survival rates.

NONE of those things existed at the time that melee combat was the most common form of warfare.

Most people who survived medivial battles either did so with minor wounds (missing fingers, missing eyes, flesh wounds to the extrmeties of the face/scalp) or no wounds at all. It was very rare for a person to lose a limb or sustain a penetrating or crushing torso injury and survive it. Why do you think armor was so valuable? No, not even plate armor will stop a lance when a ton of armored man on horseback is driving it into you or stop an arbalest bolt or the occassional errant handecannone round, but it'll keep that half-starved peasant with a spear from spitting you while you're busy keeping the halberdiers from cutting your horse out from under you. It'll save you from glancing or weakly struck blows. But if you took a solid hit, odds were you were not going to survive the experience.

>>35169769
That filename has put my sides into orbit.

>>35169965
>but it'll keep that half-starved peasant with a spear from spitting you while you'...

peasant levies weren't used in medieval period
most men at arms had armour and were trained

>>35163702
Three equally skilled opponents show up with an axe, lance and sword respectively. Each has a shield. Who wins?

>>35170017
Is the one with a lance on horseback? And are they all frm the same time period?

>>35169965
I'd argue that Civil War amputation failure rates were vastly inflated compared to other time periods. The surgeons would work on dozens or hundreds of people without washing hands or changing equipment, oftentimes on the same surfaces that were already covered in blood. Additionally, these amputations were often done BEFORE infection could occur, and the conditions they were performed in were more than likely the cause of the subsequent infection. Contrast this with pre-modern warfare, where the scale was so much smaller, and any significant medical treatment (such as amputation) that DID occur would likely have been done in conditions far less suitable to contamination. For one, you're probably not having as many wounds that require amputation in the first place, and so by default there would be so much less contamination from other patients.

>Most people who survived medivial battles either did so with minor wounds (missing fingers, missing eyes, flesh wounds to the extrmeties of the face/scalp) or no wounds at all. It was very rare for a person to lose a limb or sustain a penetrating or crushing torso injury and survive it.
Isn't that destroying your own argument? That infection was not as big a concern as you make it out to be, and the biggest issue is the trauma and bloodloss? The one exception might be sufficiently deep penetrating wounds to the chest, as those are far more likely to, even providing that they can staunch the bleeding, will have punctured something that spews forth bad shit (sometimes literally) into your chest cavity, thus causing an infection.

As for your point about armor- armor protected the vulnerable points first and foremost- the head and the torso. If you could armor nothing else, armor those. Arbalests likely wouldn't kill you through armor unless they were ridiculously strong, which were rare. They more likely wounded. The point (heh) about lances stands. Armor could protect against most square hits on protected areas

>>35170152
>I'd argue that Civil War amputation failure rates were vastly inflated compared to other time periods.
You'd be wrong.

Cry more fag.

>>3517053
>Has a handy grip right under the glad so I can take it from the fucked trying to stab me
Cool.

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>a peasant and just-in-case weapon
>is inferior to a tool of war

Jeez who would guess? Also the guys in the vid fight like women.

>>35163540
Weeb scum get out.

>>35164387
Looks like a cold steel board spear but he cut the wings off of it like a faggot. I know because I have one. They're breddy gud.

>>35171323
boar spear*

>>35163489
disgusting scatposter

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>>35168633
Behold!

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>>35155288
Pole arms are better, spears are from savages.

>>35173014
Spears are polearms though...

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>>35169769
Holy kek.
>>35169258
> simple subdural hematoma that could be solved by drilling a hole in the skull at the point of pressure was unknown

Dude, they've been trepanning since the Stone Age. Stop falling for the "mediaeval times were savage" meme.

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>>35173014
A spear is a type of polearm, you dip.

>>35169258
>>35169549
>>35169965
>>35170185
Back your stats with citations pleade.

Also, you do understand that people literally roll around in shit in some places, and in other work around meat with the occasional cut.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immune_system

>>35168671
>let's take subjective data
>and apply math to it

Bet you think you can times infinity by 2 don't ya?

>>35155288
So uh, did I just watch two men in fencing gear poke each other with a dildo on a stick/flattened PVC piping? Very realistic historically speaking.

>>35173521
It's a rubber spearhead on an oak shaft. Are you retarded?

>>35157952
The Gladius was a great cutter as well.

>>35163420
You are retarded.

>>35163941
The longbow wasn't nearly as effective and people make it out to be.

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>not knowing pommels ruled the ancient battle field and single combat.

>>35165155
Wearing a sword on your back defeats the purpose of carrying a sword in the first place.

>>35173632
>Not knowing this meme is old and idiotic

>>35162722
And "St." Michael is the fucking archangel of war.

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>>35173737
Oh so I guess harambe is old and idiotic now too...

>>35173833
>2016
Get on with the times grandpa...

>>35155288

This is a really great thread for reminding me that, for all the really smart people on here who understand systemic explanations etc, there are legions of "OMG CHECK DIS ONE VIDEO GLOCK BOX BTFO .50 CAL BREAK ACTION PISTOLL NEEDED NAOW" fucking dribbling retards. It was not actually your post about "single combat" with spears that did it. You may actually have a point - Although I strongly doubt it would be the same if the swords man has a tower shield. Then Mr. Spearman would probably be fucked.

It's all the peoplen in here confusing an argument over single combat with large bodies of MEN ON A BATTLEFIELD using different weapons. Some people have even swaggered in to "ishibnblyy dibbly confusing a sidearm with a long diddly do" and just IGNORING the roman legions.

So, Sword Vs Spear battlefield usage. Allow me to correct all you fucktards:

The SPEAR is obviously the superior weapon, large numbers of men advancing to meet large numbers of men. Problem is that unless you have disciplined will drilled infantry they can't even manage to WALK FORWARD keeping this "phalanx" in shape. Medieval spearmen were, by and large, fucking peasents and just HELD a battle line. So why was it a roman sword that conquered most of Europe? Formations. Try changing the direction of march of a Bunch of men, in a column (the easiest formation to hold) on a quiet day, on a drill square, without weapons and SEE HOW HARD IT IS. Now try and get a long line with a file depth of 4-10 Holding 16 foot long oikes to slowly wheel about....it's fucking impossible. The formation simply breaks up. On a Battlefield before 1860ish, a broken up formation got fucking RAPED. Men with saaaaayyyyy shot swords and TOWER SHIELDS (jeez gosh golly, like exactly the kind of shield you could also win a single combat against a spearman with?) can form column, wedge, line, etc, in one long line or in checkerboard formation. The Romans BEAT THE spear in a very simple way ... (cont).

>>35163689
People are arguing the earth is flat bruh just leave them to their retardation

>>35174166

They advanced against the long lines of men holding Phalanx formation in line (the only thing you CAN DO WITH A FUCKING PHALANX since once it is formed it can basically go forward and backward and nowhere else) and then, as bits of the phalanx advanced into the gaps in the checkerboard, they got chewed up from three sides by angry little men with VERY short swords and the know-how to use them, stabbing at their throats and thighs. If they DROPPED the pike to fight back, then the phalanx lost its forward push and the weapon bounced off the heads of the front ranks of the phalanx - which wasn't managing to do any damage anyway because the part of the roman line that it DID it just got down behind its shields and stopped trying to push forward.

The spear was, and always will be, for those armies who never managed to attain the levels of discipline and organization a roman legion had.

Even by the time "professional" soldiers reappeared in the late middle ages they basically shuffled around in big "tortoises" (tertios), brandishing pikes on all four sides with musketeers peeping out the gaps between them and firing.

The spear is, as the OP said, actually better for individual fighting when your opponent cannot carry a large shield. Hence it's survival in the form of the bayonet.

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>>35174166
>peasants on battlefield meme

>>35155323
>Not axe&dagger combo.

It's like you never give blood for any god.

>>35163807
It says here that the dude was stabbed by a two hand sword.

>>35174226

Yes...yes they were. Especially in the early middle ages. But fine, With INCREASING NUMBERS of men-at-arms as time went on.

Didn't refute any of my other points did you though, fecetious little cunt.

>>35165201
You are definitely retarded.

Spears were commonly used as a main battle weapon both on their own, and with a shield.

Swords were sometimes used as a main battle weapon with a shield, or on a horse. They were almost never used as a main battle weapon by themselves.

>Hurrrr duurr but spears were also used with shields so by your logic that invalidate spear alone as a main battle weapon?

Only in your head, you stupid piece of shit. You must struggle daily.

>>35163965
those polearm brothers look cool as fuck, would spar and drink afterwards with.

>>35155288
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AeeoEpmyb2Y

>>35162707
Get your rank E luck ass outta here

>>35174394
>Spears were commonly used as a main battle weapon both on their own

But then we're usually in tight formation, so by your standards that doesn't really count.

>>35155456
The peak of their military prowess was with the Scutum shield and Gladius though.

Spearfags may be right about a spear vs sword by itself, but watch a 1v1 between Legionary-equipped man and a Hoplite-equipped man, and you'll see why Romans eventually conquered all of Greece (although much of it was Phalangite-armed then, the point still remains).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c81Oc0-jl7Q

Sword and shield essentially bypasses the Spear's range advantage. The whole philosophy of the Scutum and short Gladius was to close distance using the large shield to protect, and then massacre your enemy with the short Gladius up-close. This is in many ways even more effective than a large shield + large spear.

>HURR URR i AM SO UNIQUE I LIKE POLEARMS
No this is more or less the sign of a retard now. It's become some kind of pathetic leddit trend to pretend to be knowledgeable about weapons by saying "muh polearms", and has become contrarian to like Swords, because you're all fucking faggots who understand nothing about history but ran into some larping youtubers with names similar to Skyrim.

>>35174226
>implying conscripted peasants never happened.

>>35169936
>On horse, the primary weapon was the lance. It was much superior to the sword
You're simplifying things too much. The Lance was the "primary" weapon only for the charge, and after that the Sword would be used for any stationary or maneuvering combat. Of course, as you said, the Knights could go back to grab another Lance for another charge, but this did not always occur. The Great Lance in its final form was near useless when stationary, being a highly specialized tool for couched-lancing only. Obviously earlier lances are more spear-like, and can be used for thrusting.

>>35168633
Look up "swordstaff", brainlet

>>35175164
>The peak of their military prowess was with the Scutum shield and Pilum
Fixed.

>>35175268
The pilum was a javelin not a standard spear.

>>35155288
I love spears, but that falls apart against an organized army with moderately large interlocking shields. Also that spearmen is going to get stoned to death without a shield, and good luck handling it like that with one hand.

javelins ftw

>>35163938
>Swords were sidearms.
This is dumbest most retarded thing you low IQ retards lacking in all nuance have taken from larping youtubers. You do realize they are talking in the context of LATE MEDIEVAL COMBAT, which only accounts for a portion of all combat throughout history. There are tons of examples throughout history of swords being the primary arms of numerous battle corps/warriors - not least the Roman Legions. More examples would be practically 2/3 of all Cavalry from 1600-1900, countless numbers of warriors during the Bronze Age spanning thousands of years, elite Huscarls, Landsknecht mercanaries, dismounted early-high medieval knights, etc. The 1400s were not all of history.

>>35175268
The Pilum was not their primary weapon.

>>35161987
This
How would you possibly use a spear from near the butt properly? It was for people in like 3rd-4th rank of a formation. Doing that in 1 on 1 combat would be so unwiedly and pure suicide lmao

>>35175099
'Usually' isn't true at all.

Look at the celts, known for 'heroic' sword fighting techniques. Yet, most of them unless a tribe in recent history having a lot of success, would have had a majority of the army armed with spears.

Most peoples didn't utilize formations like people think they did, only several handfuls of armies in the classic world did. In medieval times, it was kind of iffy, but still plenty of people didn't utilize shield walls (or at least not consistently). i.e. have to get their ass handed to them a few times before they go back to what the old king was doing and promoting more time to training.

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>uneducated dumbdumbs keep making claims about "swords"
>there are million different types of swords
hmmm...

>>35162117
True but it seems like the celts, gauls and Spanish (admittedly to a lesser degree) were used as and seen as expendable to Hannibal.
After all they were the bulk of his center at Cannae.

>>35175365
>would have had a majority of the army armed with spears.
This has been true for two reasons throughout a lot of history. Firstly, effectiveness (of course). But also, cheapness and abundance. You can't just put more spears than swords being down to effectiveness. It was cheapness and availability above all else, and in many circumstances people would want swords over spears. Or a more specific example is the Viking age, where most men would either have Spears or Axes depending on their function - but a direct upgrade to the Axe was the Sword, a prized item only the richer could afford. In this case it wasn't just status that came with the sword, but an actual better weapon compared to the Axe, and it didn't perform the same function compared to Spear (the shock, charging troops). Though obviously leaders would be carrying a sword even if they were the commander of the spearmen.

>>35175289
>javelin can't be main weapon
Melee peasants BTFO by skirmishers master race.

>>35175467
I mean usually you don't throw your main armament but that's just my opinion. You fight your way.

>>35175401
That was my point. I think a lot of people in ancient times in certain areas could have largely been armed with swords though. During copper/bronze age it was significantly easier to make swords than with iron/steel and to pump them out quicker.

Once iron became necessary for spear heads and swords, the vast vast majority of troops would have to use spears unless they were just crushing everyone under their feet and could use those peoples' swords as well as make/buy more with their wealth.

>>35175365
>Look at the celts, known for 'heroic' sword fighting techniques.
The celts arn't known for heroic sword fighting. they're known for starving to death under english rule because they sucked at fighting.

>>35176034
We're talking about continental celts bucko. Not island 'celts'

>>35171323
>but he cut the wings off of it like a faggot
You don't want wings on a spear that you are using for throwing and/or hunting. You want maximum penetration. Also I think he mentioned that he made that spear himself

>>35174209
>They advanced against the long lines of men holding Phalanx formation in line (the only thing you CAN DO WITH A FUCKING PHALANX since once it is formed it can basically go forward and backward and nowhere else) and then, as bits of the phalanx advanced into the gaps in the checkerboard, they got chewed up from three sides by angry little men with VERY short swords and the know-how to use them, stabbing at their throats and thighs.
But that's completely and utterly fabricated. That's not what happened in any confrontation between the two. The Romans met pikes head on, got BTFO and couldn't do jack shit, and kept backing up until they were on uneven terrain, where the pike phalanxes lost their cohesion and small units of Roman infantry operating their own initiative managed to take advantage of local disruptions.

If you're going to make a claim, back it up.

Also, you don't know how tercios work. Musketeers were on the outside of them until enemy infantry or cavalry got near, at which point the part that was threatened would run inside.

>>35156130
your benis is just like mine but with a really really short shaft
ask your gf if she thinks theyre the same

>>35158284
so its like a rifle/handgun dynamic? if youre deployed youre carrying a rifle but walking around during your civvie day you have a pistol on your hip

>>35155288
Why not both you fucking dirty peasant?
Have a spear, a sword, and a dagger.

If swords were as useless as /k/ memestorians like to claim why the fuck were they used and so popular as weapons both in and out of armour?

I'm not bashing spear, I like spear, but a real fighter trains all weapons, not just one.

>>35163420
>Swords are heavy
>Heavy
Are you fucking high?

>>35168671
>>35168760
>>35169362
>>35172352
>>35175262

What if we... put a spear... on the tip... of the sword...

>>35163420
>please wait a moment attacking negro while i put down my fedora and affix my spear head to my gentlemanly walking stick
>only then may we engage in a physical contest.

>>35175164
The Hoplite couldn't stand up to the legionary, period, and it's not because of equipment. You're comparing a militia-levy to a professional soldier. It's not even close.