To the surprise of the scientific community and the world as

>implying we won't have nuclear fusion everything by the time we have permanent moon bases

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outta my way, soviet fucking shits

>Oil
>implying all the helium-3 there isn't an amazing enough energy resource anyway
>implying mining the asteroid belts wouldn't be the most lucrative operation ever conducted in human history
>Implying that isn't all there for us to reach out and take without hypotheticals
>Implying we ever will, because we're more concerned with geometric shapes made out of guns and cartoon frogs and fat Asiatic dictators and flags

>>35152021
Guys give us the moon or we'll just blow it up and everyone dies lol
Did I fucking stutter? Checkmate other countries.

>>35152021
There's oil under Russia right now that makes no economic sense to pump out of ground.

Oil on the moon would be.. okay, super cool.

Fuck shipping it back to earth, oil would provide easy feed-stocks of hydrocarbons that could be used to synthesize plastics for habitats and equipment or turned into hydrogen reaction mass for deep space exploration.

I'd go with mechanical counterpressure space suits covered with heating elements and worn under ablative ceramic armor. Adapt a current firearm with expendable coolant canisters that pump coolant liquid though channels in the barrel and space rated dry lubricants. A relatively heavy gun, likely a 7.62x51 rifle shooting hard cored anti-armor rounds. No trigger guards, adapt the controls to be used by large gloves.

>Backgrounds.

There's nobody for this. I'd steal the navy's hardhat divers and salvage men, then look for people with the best records for technical work and endurance. Even in a counterpressure, rather then gas pressurized suit, it's exhausting to do anything for very long. Do some training to emphasize things like the fact that in space the only gunshots you can hear are your own and the ones that hit you.

>Vehicles

Electric rovers, I suppose? Something to think about.

>Be leader of eco-friendly nation but /k/ nonetheless
>build a shit ton of nukes and planet-destroying weaponry
>destroy the moon so that everybody has to evolve and adapt to being more efficient with energy and probably internationally buying from our companies
>avoid a potential international conflict on a moon

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>>35152021

>>35152034
>>35152080
>>35152163

Oil would obviously be relatively useless as a fuel on the moon. It's a really useful combination of chemicals, but there just isn't enough oxygen to burn it. Assuming proportions like on earth the strongest source of oxygen on the moon would be.. the oil itself, at around 1%.

That wouldn't make it useless though. A rich, easily tapped source of chemical feed-stocks on the moon would be very useful. You can turn oil into food, water and houseing.

>>35152021
In the current political climate: Don't even bring any military features, just rush up there with as much colonizing gear as possible.

If the world were more openly hostile: Get ANY colony up there, then shit up all of sub-lunar Earth orbit with Kessler syndrome.

>>35152118
Nice thinking!

>>35152080
This. Why bother with dinosaur goo when all that delicious He3 is up there waiting to be muon catalyzed.

>>35152215
>Don't even bring any military features
immediately shot

>>35152228
Probably a Chinese spy, sir.

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>>35152245
No I mean the weaponization of spacecraft would have to happen simultaneously as exploration/colonization. To create a safe travel route much like the early wooden ships in our own 18th century did when carrying goods for defense against pirates. Good job ensign, never liked that man. Squinty eyes and all that.

>>35152214
>but there just isn't enough oxygen to burn it
Who said anything about burning it in the atmosphere of the moon? This is all because people wanna transport it.

Spacecraft are overbuilt with rigid """"docking"""" beams for """""accidental"""" ramming attacks.

>>35152021
>How do you proceed?
Send civilians to build infrastructure over the oil as quickly as possible, then sell the rights and infrastructure as fast as possible. Proceed to have civilians collect helium3 while on the moon.

>>35152294
The cost of transporting oil from the moon would be a magnitude greater than the value of the oil being transported.

>>35152180
she don't fucking look hungry, shit

>>35152310
But it's Moon Oil, twice as fancy as regular ol' Earth Oil!

>>35152310
Then literally what's the point? If its too expensive to have it refined in the moon and transported to where its needed or its too expensive to just be taken to earth then why would countries fight for it.

>>35152118
>There's oil under Russia right now that makes no economic sense to pump out of ground.
I take your general point, but to be fair, it would totally be commercially viable to extract Russian shale, it's just that they lack the technical expertise to do so and can't acquire it from smarter foreigners because sanctions.

>>35152214
Isn't that what colonies are for? Can make oxygen that way right?

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>building lots of small underground bases because (1) of the deadly radiation environment and (2) wanting to take as much territory as possible
>going to need large centralized bases to support these smaller bases. most likely near large civilian populations.
>lots of satellites to monitor other nations
>will probably be heavy on vehicles and automation to cut operating costs
>will need to secure access to space lanes to limit enemy action, as well as provide security and disaster management (think space coast guard)
>the terrain is very dusty so you'll need excellent IFF
>missile defense systems are mandatory since everyone will inherently have access to ballistic missile technology (space rockets share alot of the same tech)
>going to need lots of cyber warfare because you dont want to get your base hacked and have all of your personnel die from a lack of life support
>will need a GPS/LORAN equivalent with plenty of redudancy in case of a space pearl harbor
>thermal sensors will be really common given that the moon is really cold compared to the earth, so you'll need to limit and obfuscate your thermal signatures
>spacecraft will need to have stealth features to limit their detection
i'd try to field lots of robots and automated systems while emphasizing network warfare and intelligence gathering. space security will be paramount.

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>>35152214
Sorry but you are wrong. The moon much like the Earth is made mostly of oxygen, it's just tied up in the rock. Oil only has oxygen because of the water in it.
I can't think of any combination of tech that make moon oil valuable enough to get.

>>35152489
>in case of a space pearl harbor
I chuckled heartily.

>>35152296
>2057
>US space destroyer collides with Filipino space freighter

>>35152021
>have to decide on which military backgrounds
Well, obviously Marines.

I mean you gotta have Space Marines, man.

>>35152496
aeiou

>>35152034
Not if liberals have anything to say about it we won't

>Carl deSagan Tyson the science guy sez nukes r bad and space travel is kewl!!!! xDDD

>>35152021
>gravity/weight is not a concern
>recoil will be problematic

Hmm, could you turn something like an M2 into a recoil-less rifle MG?

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>>35152021
Just take notes from the actual military investigations from the 50's-70's:

>Claymores modified to puncture spacesuits
>Regular rifles with space rated lubricants, winter trigger guards and maybe a white or shiny coating but few other modifications.
>Man portable ASATs (MANASATS?)
>Circumnavigate the globe with artillery.
> Nuclear MANPAWS like the Davy Crockett

>>35152518
>what is warp technology

>>35152742
>Claymores modified to puncture spacesuits
Would they even need to be?

>>35152080
The first nation to successfully mine a large asteroid will be the richest and most powerful nation for centuries to come.

>>35152742
>Day 264: AUGs still are not of realizing I am russian shotgun

>>35152312
kinda makes ya wonder if the wheelchair is a prop huh

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>>35152021
Oil driving moon colonies is silly but lets just say "War on the Moon" for whatever reason.

>Individual Weapons
Basically like what we have now. For the rifleman it's going to be pretty much like it is now. You don't need to change the operation of the rifle, you don't need to have cooling for anything smaller than an LMG, you don't need to worry about vacuum welding.

The only things I can see being different are:
You need gross motor skill considerations built into the rifles. Big wide trigger guards like someone else said, big AK style safety paddles, easy to operate controls. Basically the same considerations that go into Winter Rifles and Underwater weapons apply 10x over to using a rifle in a space suit because all spacesuit gloves are a bitch to use.

You have essentially infinite range due to the lack of atmosphere. You can fire OTH with your standard rifle and still retain energy and accuracy out to that distance. Something like the TrackingPoint might actually be useful to exploit that.

For emplaced/mounted weapons, Gatling guns and/or watercooled might make a comeback.

>Crew Served
No air in space or on the moon means no aircraft. Any type of space suit is going to be really susceptible to shrapnel. And lastly the same ridiculous range considerations for rifles applies to Artillery. Artillery is now back in its rightful place as King of the Battlefield.

Someone will say "but muh orbital artillery", but any space ship is going to be fragile as fuck and antisatellite missiles are already an enormous threat on Earth. On the Moon a Stinger missile could hit orbital craft.

>Backgrounds
Obviously astronaut candidates. Most have military experience. But also submariners, SF guys, military divers etc. People used to operating in difficult conditions and/or used to operating independently.

Artillery, watercooled machine guns, trenches as effective defenses...WW1 on the Moon When?

>>35152021
>How do you proceed?

Don't do anything.

Oil on the moon is worthless, because cost of extraction is too damn high.

>>35152080
>>35152034
You can't make plastic and asphalt out of helium-3 or depleted uranium.

>>35152041
Enjoy getting chomp'd

>>35152815
>On the Moon a Stinger missile could hit orbital craft.
what sort of altitude could you get from a .50 BMG cartridge by firing it straight up while on the surface of the moon? what about 20mm?

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>>35152021
>How are you going to refine oil on the moon? Good luck having burn off with no air.
>Even if it was pure gold, the per oz cost of shipping back material to earth costs more then any profit.
>As if anyone besides Russia and China would try it, and only to 'defeat' America in a space race that we already did In the 1960s.

>>35152296
Doubley good, as space fuel can't melt docking beams.

>>35152420
>Russia not having a great oil industry
>Rusia in need of foreing minds

Oh boy

>>35152612
Space riced once again

>>35152815
>any spaceship is going to be fragile as fuck

Not if people know when building it that it could have missiles fired at it

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>>35152021
>be america
>literally the first and only country to go to the moon
>trump wanted to end climate change legislation
>and create the USSM
>literally making space marines for moon oil space colonization because fuck hippies
>mfw

>>35152180
>gib me moneee white boi u don needa go tah space
literally holding us back from colonizing the heavens.

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>>35152905
The problem isn't altitude so much as guidance. Being able to hit something so far and so fast would be the hard part even if it were in range.

But to actually answer your question, muzzle velocity is going to control the altitude much more than mass because of the almost vacuum atmosphere. This means 20mm isn't going to go significantly higher than .50 because of their very similar muzzle velocities. Depending on how bad my calculus has gotten, both would get to about 300km.

Meanwhile a really fast round, like .220 Swift would get up to 520km

If you could get the muzzle velocity up to 2.38 km/s or about 2x the velocity of .220 Swift, you'd actually escape the Moons gravity completely.
>>35153464
>Not if people know when building it that it could have missiles fired at it
No its still going to be fragile as fuck. We know missiles are going to be launched at our planes, that doesn't mean our planes are now built to be immune to missiles.

The only way that changes is if you're talking so far future that space travel is so cheap and casual that launch mass and dV are irrelevant, in which case you're also so far future that any predictions about military technology are pointless.

>>35152662
>if i blame liberals for everything i'll always feel justified in hating them

>>35152021
>How do you proceed?
we don't and just drill in the ocean like everyone else

>>35153627
Part of what's holding back nuclear science in murica is actually liberal inflicted regulations on plants and such.

>>35152751
A concept that probably violates causality.

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>>35152163
Earth and the moon orbit a barycenter. Destroy the moon our counter balance is no longer there, we spin off into Oblivion.

>>35152021
Yes, let's dump another planetary body's worth of carbon into the atmosphere. If Japan makes it there we'll have sailors on the moon, named Sailor Moon Battalion.

>>35153618
yes however the naacp and splc bused them there gave them free signs and lunches just like today

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>>35153819

>>35153609
>Gogo

I see you are a man of good taste.

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>>35153924

>>35152021

Play battlezone 98 redux

>>35153866
God, this scene was so stupid...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pG5v7ng0o4A

>>35152021
>surprise of the scientific community
Not surprising there. They won't even accept electric Universe theory despite truckloads of evidence.

Need to prop up that jew science

>>35154115
>electric Universe theory
explan

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>>35154115
>They won't even accept electric Universe theory despite truckloads of evidence.
>truckloads of evidence

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>>35154115
>truckloads of evidence

>>35152768
that made me laugh far too hard

>2077
>texas is it's own country
>strongest military after getting rid of liberals in austin
>everyone uses a scar h as their primary
>Secondary is a pocket double barrel
>somehow controls the entire moon out of boredom
>holds music festivals and bbqs daily

>>35152280
>space pirates
What

>>35152329
>shut up and take my money

>>35152763
No no you don't see, they round balls are all rolly polly, so we'll have to load them with them hunting air gun pellets because those are pointy stabby

>>35154944
The Somalia Space Program.

>>35154980
Literally just zodiacs with plastic wrap bubbles catapulted into the void

>>35152180
>hungry

gauranteed she has a 5 piece of the colonels 11 herbs and spices hidden in her fro

>>35152080
>helium 3 meme
http://www.projectrho.com/public_html/rocket/macguffinite.php#chimera

>>35154121
Its a theory that the universe follows electric models and not space magic (black holes, dark matter, ect)

They have been able to reproduce many of the phenomena found in the universe in their lab such as galaxies spiraling.

They have a pretty good youtube channel for dummies that explains a good maount of it in simply details, if you want a deeper understanding you will have to find Wal Thornhill's book.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WoNaVb7b-tg

Be careful delving too deep into this particular channel, they have a really out there theory that earth used to orbit saturn with mars and venus forming many of the religious symbols you see around the world. Its worth the watch for the story atleast.

>>35152021
>immense amounts of oil are discovered below the Moon's surface
>many nations scramble to establish and secure their lunar "colonies" before and against everybody else
Anyone else thinking of the ending of Iron Sky?

I install a fuck ton of rockets onto the moon and crash it into the earth.

This will wipe out civilization and allow the earth to retake itself. Humans will be pushed to evolve, becoming stronger than ever before.

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>>35152021
You mean biometal, not oil

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come at me cyka

>>35152332
Congratulations, you just realized OP is retarded.

>>35156307
>you just realized OP is retarded.
>nofunallowed.jpg

>>35152610
>Multiple warships dropping out of hyperspace and railgunning and tactical nuking the fuck out of orbiting shipyards/military base
HNNNNNG

>>35152021
>1 Giant flying vacuum covered in defensive guns and fighter patrols
>A bomb big enough to crack the moon in half

>>35152021
>To the surprise of the scientific community and the world as a whole, immense amounts of oil are discovered below the Moon's surface.
That'd be pretty surprising, given that life (and death) is a precondition of petroleum. Oil only exists because dead biological matter was subjected to millions of years of pressure from tectonic forces. Petroleum deposits are the remains of pre-historic jungles, kelp forests, reefs, etc. Discovering oil on the moon would reveal that there was in fact life on the moon at some point in its history, which would be strange given its effectively non-existent (thin enough to ignore) atmosphere and impotent gravity.

>>35153626
No but planes are resistant to bullets and missile blasts, and also have measures to prevent lockons/targeting.
Is it not conveivable that sattelites/shuttles shall be modified to be better for these situations?

Indeed we may get space stations, as in actual large constructs containing factories for sattelites+facilities for space colonists/workers

>>35152180
Where was the pic that showed that spending on welfare was bigger than spending on NASA by about 25x at the time, iirc?

>>35152310
No, getting the needed infrastructure to the moon to mine it is the expensive part.

Sending oil back is a lot cheaper.

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>>35159045
What if instead of a bomb, we used a purpose built ship?

>>35159455
Explain the oil on Titan then.

>>35159610
Obviously there's silicon-based life there :^)

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>>35159645
>hydrocarbons indicate silicon based life

>>35159645
>silicon based life
>hydrocarbons
>carbon

>>35152021
Oil but no oxygen, learn to chemistry.

>>35152021
Oil on moon would be useless as it would cost more to transport it back to earth than to travel back in time and bury dinosaur corpses where you want oil to be.

>>35152021
>Due to the technical neutrality of its location
wut? the moon belongs to America. US Flag on it says so.

>>35152180
>lame daughter
I'll say, I doubt she can even skateboard

>>35152830

>not making your roads out of uranium

look at this fucking casual

>>35160328
>the moon belongs to America. US Flag on it says so.
Ironically enough, the US flags on the moon have been bleached white in the half century they've been up there.

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>>35159681
>>35159769
how does it feel to be this new

>Oil
>space
>useful

Someone didn't pass high school chem

>>35160446
So now they belong to the French?

>>35160512
>So now they belong to the French?
I was not aware that the 19th century's Kingdom of France had space-faring capabilities.

>>35152021
>implying it wouldn't cost more energy to get the oil than it would actually provide

>>35160356
fuck why did ibfucking laugh at this

>>35160536
Because you grew up in the 90s.

>>35152021

There's 200 Trillion barrels of oil on Titan.

>>35160581
>There's 200 Trillion barrels of oil on Titan.
Well, there have been 12 people to the moon and 0 to Titan so far.

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>>35153835

>>35158808
But Pearl Harbor was conducted by aircraft carriers and why would space battleships be useful when their modern equivalent has been considered obsolete by the 1970s(and that's being generous).

>>35159582
Earth's gravity well extends out to the Moon.

>>35152021
It would not be even remotely financially viable to ship oil back from the moon. Hell, it wouldn't be financially viable to ship BARS OF GOLD back from the moon even if they were just sitting up there.

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>>35152489
>going to need lots of cyber warfare because you dont want to get your base hacked and have all of your personnel die from a lack of life support
Why is your life support on an open network?
>thermal sensors will be really common given that the moon is really cold compared to the earth, so you'll need to limit and obfuscate your thermal signatures
At night maybe. During the day, the surface gets ti about 400K because theres little in the way of insulation from the Sun.
>spacecraft will need to have stealth features to limit their detection
Like what?
>>35152763
He's taken it from Project Horizon, but hell if I can find information about how they would have been modified in the documentation. I can't even find reference to them except in the articles about it, which all uses the exact same language.
>conventional claymore mines modified to puncture pressure suits.

>>35159496
You're underestimating the dominance of Mass in space travel and how complicated a space craft is. More armor means more mass, more mass means more expensive to launch and more dV to move. And unlike a plane, your satellite stays in a predictable orbit or is burning an unsustainable amounts of propellant to randomize it.

And how do you actually do it anyway? Have you seen the enormous radiators on the ISS? You're going to need those too, how are you going to armor them?

>>35160736
Earths gravity well extends out forever, but pretty sure thats meant to be the halfway mark that elevator needs to be over to be pulled in by Earth more than its pulled down by the Moons.

>>35160484
>gets rekt
>h-heh n-newfag

>>35161071
Might as well just build 2 space elevators, then you only need rocket fuel to get to the end of one from the other.

>>35162080
Maybe, but we currently don't have the materials to build a Space Elevator on Earth. We already do for the Moon.

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>>35162080
>space elevators
this is the most retard thing in this thread. not you anon, just space elevators

>>35160709
Because aircraft and missiles don't work very well against point defense, but missiles are cheaper to spam than small spaceships. Railgunning because it's hard to ciws a chunk of metal moving at mach fuck. Since 99.9% of your missiles get shot down, you close the distance and start broadsiding them.

>>35162892
Whats wrong with space elevators? They're entirely practical on the Moon and OP's scenario (ignoring the cause) would have enough traffic to justify the expenditure.

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>>35152041

>>35152021
100% drone operated mining operations conducted by the richest nations will be spread around the moon. No one will be able to afford to control the whole thing, so it's not likely that combat will arise until Earth's own supply of oil dries up. We'll probably be a futuristic one-world government by that point, so rather than a conflict between nations you'll see civil war break out at home as the government slowly begins cutting off oil to 'expendable' populations.

>>35152180
kek misread that as penises for the hungry

This is almost as dumb as the battleship and submarine aircraft carrier shitposters.

>>35152021
You do realize that oil is made out of compressed plankton right?

>>35161071
>spacecraft will need to have stealth features to limit their detection
>Like what?
you can limit detection in the traditional stealth sense, and also by lowering reflectivity and brightness of a spacecraft. alot of spacecraft right now are detected by how bright they are in the night sky. there are also problems with differentiating between spacecraft with radar if they are too close together.

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>>35153652
It took me a few seconds to realise you meant power plants, and I was confused as fuck before that
I need to sleep more often

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Easy

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>>35163801
Wrong clone armor friend, phase 1 is the only one fully outfitted for use in the vacuum of space unlike phase 2 which is your picture.

>>35163828
>phase 1
it did more and looked better. though there was some BS about it not being comfy.

>>35161071
Well my theory was that they would be built in space and so launch expenses would be lower

Well, build armoured radiators

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>>35161071
>Robert Mcall
Fuck yeah. That guy has some awesome stuff

>>35152937
Shipping back is easy. You just aim for a secure spot of ocean and drop it into a terminal orbit. Lifting is hard and expensive

>>35163885
>Well my theory was that they would be built in space and so launch expenses would be lower
Doesn't eliminate the need for dV. Propellant costs are already screws you over. Extraneous mass is still going to do that.

And again you're not going to be able to maneuver dynamically in orbit.

>Well, build armoured radiators
No such thing.

>>35164016
That will burn it up. Re-entry is a complicated process that requires lots of math.

>>35164248
Tell that to "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress"

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>>35152021
Bullpups, concussion grenades, and powered hardshell space suits.

Everything valuable is inside. Refineries would cost a mint to ship to the Moon. People don't want to spend every day all day in a space suit so you need living areas. Civilians would be inside so you can't just blow the walls. And you want them to be in caves and underground to shield from radiation.

So CQB and MOUT taken to 11. Concussion Grenades would be devastating in close quarters but wont poke holes in the buildings.You need space suits even inside hostile colonies in case they decide to turn off the air, and a hardshell lets you tank the overpressure

>>35159548
>transporting millions of barrels of flammable liquid 238,900 miles and then getting it through the atmosphere intact
>cheap

>>35152021
You dumbass. Oil is decomposed plants and animals. It's more likely some rare mineral or element would be found such as Helium3.

>>35152214
>You can turn oil into food, water and houseing.
Tell me more. I'm interested in how I can turn oil into an MRE

>>35152496
Is that a fucking runway?

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>>35163984

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>>35165475

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYf6av21x5c

>>35156213
>battlezone
yes

>>35152765
More like destroy the global economy

>>35159586
In my headcanon, idiocracy was what life had turned to on earth. The semi-smart people were still getting facebursted in deep space to preserve president camacho's administration on earth.

>>35159586
I did that in space engineers once. Called it my planet cracker. Front end had a wedge shaped array of mining drills that was about 1.5km wide. Essentially worked like a giant shaving razor.

>>35164248
Did someone say ablative iron?

http://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/54811279/
Lots of good shit in this thread.

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>>35168492
>virtually every non-paleonigger country uses fiat memes
>devaluing luxury commodities will collapse the world economy
Wrong.

>>35163677
oil is abiotic and has been detected in space.

>>35169535
call me a faggot, but hydrocarbons=/=octane (yes, it's a simplification, fuck off)

>>35152080
>geometric shapes made out of guns
Nigga you best not insult the /k/ube

>>35152080
>>Implying we ever will, because we're more concerned with geometric shapes made out of guns and cartoon frogs and fat Asiatic dictators and flags
I think you mean:
>Implying we ever will, because meme-ists are busy with propaganda advocating martian and lunar settlements instead of orbital colonies.

>>35169627
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synthetic_fuel
>cook methane/sugars/alchohol/coal/carbon dioxide and water with high pressure and heat
>get oil
Methane occurs naturally all over space. Saturn's moon Titan has oceans of methane, all it takes is heat, pressure and methane and you have oil.

>2017

>Retards STILL believe oil comes from dinosaurs

Holy shit are you all boomer generation or what

>>35169779
>alchohol and water
>into oil
I may have barely passed ochem, but that doesn't quite add up from a favorability or stoich standpoint.

>>35169792
But anon, how a sea leaf become go juice for car?

>>35169806
alchohol and carbohydrates can be decomposed into hydrocarbons through pyrolysis. Actually open the link before you post. Methane is going to be the primary feedstock.

Also CO2 + H2O can be used to create any hydrocarbon + oxygen

I can't think of a space term with k in it that isn't a meme like kinetic bombardment, but space /k thread please no die.

>>35169792
>being this retarded
..oils does come from dinosaurs, but also from other recent sources in minuscule, irrelevant amounts.

t. chemist

>>35171173
>I can't think of a space term with k in it that isn't a meme like kinetic bombardment, but space /k thread please no die.
Dude, you didn't even try: /k/osmonaut

>>35171198
>dinosaurs
>primary source of biomass
... wew
I get that that isn't your claim. I'm memeing.
Anon was clearly trying to say that the commonly 'known' source of oil isn't the primary source despite mainstream (boomer) memeage.

>>35153798
The mass of the moon would still be there, chucklefuck. Now, it would be spread out more, but only enough to really destabilise our orbit. Probably no extinction event. Preobably.

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>Space war thread
>Nobody has mentioned The Expanse

Ya'll niggers suck.


MCRN is the most /k/ faction.

>>35174009
THIS
H
I
S

>>35152332
Think of it as long term investing... You colonize the moon and claim the oil, And 200 years down the road when earth is experiencing oil shortages you can sell it at a high enough price to make a profit.

Assuming we aren't all solar by then.

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>>35174009
>On patrol inna belt
>Board skinny ship, they talk back at me in their uncivilized tribal beltspeak when I ask for their permits
>Beat them with shock-batons, revoke their Martian Trade Zone permits and confiscate their vacuum-distilled fungus hooch
>mfw I see them crying because they have to dump their payload to have enough delta-vee to get back to home port, having spent half their fortune on a pointless trip
>mfw it will take them six weeks to get back because they don't have kickass Epstein drives like us
>mfw our engineer covertly sealed their septic tank release hatch shut

>>35174094
>Assuming we aren't all solar by then.
You are an idiot.

>>35152021
>oil reserves on the moon
What the fuck good is it there? Any oil we recover would be less than the oil products we consumed to get there by a factor of about 100 with current tech

It might as well be on the moon

>>35175038
>Launch one rocket with one guy, attached to very long hose
>Guy puts hose in moon oilwell
>Turn on pump on earth
>???
>Profit

>>35175038
... You do know that the big orange one is liquid hydrogen and oxygen, right?
Solid boosters are also not petroleum products...

Rockets are not the size of delaware. The moon is not the size of hawaii.

>>35162930
Aside from simple logistics like building an earth sized jump rope?

>send mass up elevator
>tip of rope slows down due to the change in the moment of inertia
>rope is now falling/wrapping around planet
>need to either put buttloads of fuel on the tip to keep the velocity steady, or it wont work

ME major here btw, i could calculate specific dVs but im lazy

>>35162080
>meme elevator
>ever
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

Check this thread out: http://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/54811279/

>>35175146
The moon is actaully one of the few places a meme elevator could work. It could actually be a rigid structure instead.
That still doesn't excuse the fact that a mass driver is absurdly superior, and that the meme elevator is a meme for anything other than an orbital ring.

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>>35175228
>That still doesn't excuse the fact that a mass driver is absurdly superior, and that the meme elevator is a meme for anything other than an orbital ring.

pic related.

>>35175858
They were sub-human africans. Nothing of value was lost.
Also in what world would anyone smarter than a chimp ever let the chinese operate a super structure? Their education system is 1600's tier except with absurd amounts of cheating.

Your picture is shit, the premise of the picture is shit from a physics standpoint, mass drivers are not mass relays, and you are a faggot.

>>35164016
That's not how Astrodynamics works. It will orbit and use a fuck ton of fuel to get out of orbit of the moon and get out of the earth orbit after

>>35176761
you could just send it on a path with speed X so that it doesn't end up in a stable orbit... It's literally basic physics.

>>35175943
It was on track for successful delivery. However, earlier documents had an illuminati company lose the bidding on the lunar delivery, so they sabotaged it.

>>35152021
USA
>Marines to invest the moon
>Combine Navy & Airforce into USSN (United States Space Navy) to get them there and to provide close support.
>ACE (Army Corps of Engineers) to establish base, build linear accelerator and establish mines and foundries to mine, smelt and forge native materials into cargo containers.
>Hire anyone who wants the fuck off terra to work the mines, foundries and provide technical suport.
>Trade tickets off-world in exchange for 5 years service in lieu of pay.
>Once foundry is up and running, build L/A-launched, stealth, drone cargo containers that can be filled with 10 tons of waste material from mines and slag from foundry.
>Declare ownership of moon
>Drop as many 1Kt KEWs on contentious nations as required.
>exploit oil at leasure.
>May or may not use as platform to take posessin of entire world.

>not wanting to overthrow the Terran oppressor and fight for Lunar independence

>>35178056
Luna is merely the gateway to the Belt.

That being said
>"FREE LUNA!"

>>35178067
>Luna is merely the gateway to the Belt.
Or we could save resources and bypass it completely.
rungworld or bust.

>>35174009
M C R N
C
R
N

>>35178084
I am NOT fighting Kzinti without the resources of the Belt.

>>35152021
Gyrojet guns with unidirectional high explosive charges for everyone.

>>35178524
Better off using wither shaped charge warheads (e.g HESH) or frag ammo. Use personal magnetic defelctorscreens to prevent BF casualties.

>>35152180

>mup da doo didda space bidda be dat tum muh keeds muhfuggen bix nood

When will these welfare queens learn...

>>35152021
since the weapons would be significantly lighter (much like their wielders) but recoil would obviously produce the same energy, could controlling recoil (especially under full auto) be a significant problem?
also shell casings/various shrapnel whipping around at 17k mph would be a serious problem

>>35153652
>liberal inflicted regulations on plants
america has plenty of nuclear power plants lmao and its not like other countries dont use nuclear sometimes

france fucking loves the stuff

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This, but not on Mars.

>>35178642
but we aren't building any more of them and we aren't building waste facilities because
>REEEE CHILLUNS ARE GONNA GROW 17 ARMS
but these same people won't accept oil so they try to subsidize hydro, solar, and wind, and hemorrhage money out the ass

>>35178624
Lasers and recoilless/low recoil weapons finally have an arena that makes them useful.

Use steel casings/frag casing so that a dual-layer megnetic field can be used to deflect frag away from friendly forces.

>>35156256
How in the fuck is he going to grab that rpg

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>>35174009
Because this is about the Moon, not Mars, and about ground combat not space combat?

>>35175146
Except the momentum is being bled not from the cable tip, but from the Planetary Body (in this case the Moon). For a comparison, look at how Yo-yo de-spins for satellite launches work and remember that the center of gravity for the cable isn't sitting in orbit, its above geostationary orbit and thus actively tensioning the cable. "Centrifugal force" (don't give me shit, its not a real force but it is a useful abstraction here) means the system wants to maintain the vertical orientation and so it will reset by slowing the planet.

Even if that wasn't the case, it would still provide advantages. After launches you could use a high ISP engine to "reset" the elevators position. Said High-ISP engine might not provide sufficient thrust to launch but that doesn't matter when you can just do arbitrarily long burns burns from the top of the platform. And meanwhile the weight of the propellant you've used to launch is a tiny fraction of what you'd have to use with traditional boosters. You're basically gaming the Tyranny of the Rocket Equation.

>>35178009
>>Trade tickets off-world in exchange for 5 years service in lieu of pay.
Jesus Christ. 5 years for a ticket? Are you saying we're not going to make any advances in rocketry or get any economies of scale while colonizing another body? Because otherwise those ACE engineers are getting ripped off.
>>35178642
US uses about 20% Nuclear for energy generation. France used about 70%. While America might generate more quantitatively, theres a ridiculous amount of room for expansion compared to total generation.
Nuclear is safe, clean and effective. We should be using it to provide the foundation of our power production.

>>35152332
Getting it down is cheap. It's getting supplies up that's expensive. That's why the first wave of colonisrs wd have to focus on setting up the infrastructure to create a self-supporting colony. Things like solar panels, hydroponics systems both for 02 production and food production would be a first priority.

Setting up a base that hs to be supplied by earth is an economically unfeasable proposition. But creating an actual colony that is sulf-fupporting and will eventually show a fiscal return for earth is completely viable, just unearthly expensive.

>>35152489
>>35161071
>dont want to get your base hacked and have all of your personnel die from a lack of life support
Why would you not have local control over life support? Centralized control is both a bottleneck and a security risk.

>thermal sensors will be really common given that the moon is really cold compared to the earth
Those surfaces of the moon exposed to sun can reache 253F (123C) while the portions in the earth's shadow or facng away from the sun can drop to -243F (-153C).

Thermal sensors will be useful, but since nothing but humans would be on the moon to move, motion sensors would be more useful and less prone to decalibration I wuld think.

>spacecraft will need to have stealth features to limit their detection
Since such craft could (and most decidedly would) be tracked optically, it would be kind of pointless to stealth NEO-only spacecraft.

>>35152763
No need to modify them exept that now they no longer have a maximum effective range. The ballbearings that a claymore uses for shrapnel will continue on in a straight line until they impact on a solid object or encounter an object with sufficient mass to cause them to orbit it. C4 contains it's own oxydizer and so does not require O2 to function, though extreme temperatures may either cause spontaneous detonation or slow down the speed with which it detnonates, possibly providing a slight delay in the time between the detonator being tripped and firing.

>>35152742
In EVA combat you no longer need to actually kill the man with the bullet in order to kill him with a gun. Simply shredding his suit would be enough to kill him. Thus you could get away with realatively low-power weapms that do not require liquid lubricants. IIRC, some CO2 powered weapons can use graphite or other dry lubes that should be g2g in a vacuum.

>>35178586
>mup da doo didda space bidda be dat tum muh keeds muhfuggen bix nood
Google traslate from Somali to English is as follows.
> Whether it's a place to go, no matter what

>>35164248
Sure. This math can be done years in advance and so long as your payload is loaded correctly, can be managed by a simple computer program. Landing HUMANS in such a manner that they do not die from inertial trauma is hard and requires a great number of on-th-fly adjustments. The Apollo missions used simple re-entry burns that ended with an ocean landing because no one knoew how to design an airframe that could be manuvered in both vacuum and atmosphere. This is OLD tech.

Remember, ALL of the Apollo missions were run using computers less powerful than a first gen Iphone.

>>35164897
Concussion grenades regularly blow out windows and in some cases walls. I wouldn't be so certain that overpressure wouldn't blow environmental seals in a space habitat, even one built into the bedrock of the mood.

>>35165259
What is "dropping a rock into a gravity well"? >Cheap Luna-produced thrusters that use byproduct gasses for manuvering.
>Mounted on Luna-produced shipping containers designed specifically to drop through the atmosphere
>trajectory is calulatedto produce a slowest-burn trajectory to reduce both impact forces and heat generation.


So yeah, cheap. All the materials are either a byproduct of mining or of oil extraction or other native process that the lunies would be using.

>>35165399
Have you ever tasted an MRE? Pretty sure they already do this.

>>35180646
>Remember, ALL of the Apollo missions were run using computers less powerful than a first gen Iphone.
That's putting it mildly. Try "singing teddy bear toy"

>>35152830
Asphalt is a fucking scam. Just use that surplus energy to laser cut paving stones or something.

>>35152815
>you don't need to have cooling for anything smaller than an LMG
huh? I thought funs would overheat easily in vacuum because there's not much way to dissipate heat?

>>35180924
Who needs combustion to use funs. Use high velocity compressed gas weapons instead. All the performance, 99% less waste heat.

>>35160695
Nixon was a piece of shit, but that line up top is kinda good.

>>35180613
Why did you reply to >>35161071 when it said everything you said?
>No need to modify them exept that now they no longer have a maximum effective range
Also >>35152763 >>35161071 >>35152742
On the Moon they don't have to consider air resistance at all. Claymores use relatively soft projectiles that are meant to deform into a more aerodynamic shape. I'm not sure if it uses just pure explosive force to do this, or its a result of being pushed that fast through air, but either way it would need to be modified for an airless environment.

The lack of aerodynamic considerations also means you could make side modifications like packing them more densely (say square shot) or focus exclusively on terminal ballistics.
>continue on in a straight line until they impact on a solid object or encounter an object with sufficient mass to cause them to orbit it.
Uh no. They are fast, but they aren't faster than the Moons escape velocity.
>Simply shredding his suit would be enough to kill him
Because no-one will think to armor their military's space suits. Also that depends on the space suit - a MCP suit would just give its users hickeys where it was punctured. Other suits have redundant dams for emergencies, or are hybrids.
>IIRC, some CO2 powered weapons can use graphite or other dry lubes that should be g2g in a vacuum.
Graphite cannot be used in space, as it requires water vapor in the atmosphere for lubrication. Its also conductive so dangerous if it floats around. You are right about dry lubricants, generally its moly though.

>>35152080
There are many experts out there who are far smarter than you who have concluded that any kind of space mining at this point in time is completely not profitable.

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>>35152678
>>35178624
>>35179095
>recoil
For non-automatic fire, recoils not that bad. The limiting factor on Earth is impulse. This won't change, the mass of the rifle and you are the same, your resistance to pain and damage are the same. No problem

In automatic fire, you don't have gravity fighting muzzle climb, so that might be a problem, but you're not generally firing from the Hip anyway and when you are it's in an intermediate cartridge. I'd also point out that in fullauto, any recoiless rifle isn't going to be practical either.

Nothing big enough to knock you over (even in 1/6th gravity) is going to be practical anyway.

>>35181620
>Claymores use relatively soft projectiles that are meant to deform into a more aerodynamic shape.
Claymore mines use hardened 52100 alloy ball bearings as shrapnel. Even very mild steel bearings won't deform signifigantly (for our purposes here) and these are NOT mild steel. There is no need to modify the Claymore at all, except perhaps to give them a longer tripwire or switch to a RTF/laser tripwire instead.
There's no need to switch back to square shot or a more traditional bullet design. In a vaccum, it's more effective to shred an opponent's suit and let physics kill him, than to try to design the perfect projectile to inflict maximum trauma on a body, especially since you're using an unaimed AoE weapon.
>Uh no. They are fast, but they aren't faster than the Moons escape velocity.
Escape valocity of the moon is 2.83 M/s. Velocity of a claymore-fired ball bearing is 1,218 M/s. Trust me lad, those fuckers are GONE once you trip that trigger.

As with ALL armor, weight, or at least mass, and flexibility are the limiting factors with armoring the human form. Sure, you can armor a pressure suit. But can you do so well enough that your troops are protected against a hardend steel ball moving at better than 1200 M/s and still make it mass low enough that they can actually manuver and fight? We can;t even get a fucking powered exoskeleton to work, how are you planning on letting your hypothetical space marines MOVE, much less aim a weapon or do any of the other technical things space combat will require?

The bruising you speak of? yeah that happens when you can PATCH the fucking suit. How do you patch several dozen holes that cover the majority of one side of your suit. Never mind that some if not all of them have also poked holes through the dude in the suit, who will now require medical treatment to survive IN ADDITION to havng a suit that is now doing a decent impersonation of a sieve and leaking atmo to hell and back.

>>35152021
okay, USA wins automatically. how is this a thread that needs to have any kind of discussion...?

>>35181620
>Graphite cannot be used in space
I stand corrected. Molly would be a better choice assuming it remains fluid enough at both the low and high ends of the relative temperature gradient. It may behoove our space marines to return to their roots where marsmanship is more important than weight of fire. If you can reliably shoot a man at a mile with a CO2 powered rifle that fires a 200M/S or better 7.62mm projectile it really doesn't matter that your ROF is measured in double digits per minute.

>>35181720
>not profitable
Sure. Not for a big outfit which ic going to have to supply all their worersand house them and provide all the support facilities and serives that they'll need.

But for indipendants? 10 men (or more likely men and women) who travel out, claim a rock, turn it into a habitat and then sail it back to Terra at low thrust so they can mine it hollow and sell the refined ores while still in orbit, then fly back out and do it again? THAT is a much more profitable venture.

But there's no money in that for the big minimg outfits, just as it has never been in their interest to allow small indipendant mine owners or single prospectors to work their claims.

What's the market rate for Iridium? For any of the rare transuranics? For platinum or palladium or gold?

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>>35182902
>Claymore mines use hardened 52100 alloy ball bearings
No thats wrong. You're getting your development history mixed up. The 52100 ball bearings were one of the "improvements" trialed to meet requirements. It failed because they shattered when the explosive went off. Ball Bearings are strong but brittle.
They were replaced with softer balls (not ball bearings) and the matrix was added to contain and evenly transfer blast pressure.
>Escape valocity of the moon is 2.83 M/s. Velocity of a claymore-fired ball bearing is 1,218 M/s.
The escape velocity of the Moon is 2.38 KILOMETERS per second or almost twice as fast as the balls are going.
Not even Ceres has an escape velocity that small. The comet Philae landed on did, but its only 2-4km wide.
>a suit that is now doing a decent impersonation of a sieve and leaking atmo
No, you don't understand what a mechanical counter-pressure suit is. Unless you puncture the helmet (in which case a human on Earth would be just as dead) its not leaking anything. It uses mechanical pressure, not air pressure to provide the counter pressure required. The only air-pressurized section is the helmet. Hybrid suits have high pressure air in the torso and low pressure limbs, meaning they could armor the torso like traditional soldiers and while puncturing a limb would be painful it wouldn't be fatal or disabling because it wouldn't vent the entire suit.
>But can you do well enough that your troops are protected against a hardend steel ball moving at better than 1200 M/s
>have also poked holes through the dude in the suit
Yes they'll be just as fragile as a soldier on Earth. But thats my point. We don't have soldiers that can just shrug off Claymores on Earth either. You won't be able to kill them with your Red Ryder. You'll still need real guns, they'll still wear armor plates. If they're wearing an MCP suit, you'll absolutely have to kill the man with the bullet in order to kill him with a gun or do something just as difficult.

>>35180613
>spacecraft will need to have stealth features to limit their detection
>Since such craft could (and most decidedly would) be tracked optically, it would be kind of pointless to stealth NEO-only spacecraft.
optical detection has a drawback in that it can take days for even experienced amateurs to find a spacecraft in earth orbit. imagine spacecraft designed to avoid detection. if you're trying to launch an operation in space, you could be providing yourself with hours or days of time in which you go undetected all because you went for some stealth features.

>>35165413
>Is that a fucking runway?
seems so. might be some sort of catapult system like they use on aircraft carriers. i don't see any wings on the spacecraft that is landing, so maybe the idea is that it saves money on launching vehicles because they dont have to carry as much mass around for fuel & fuel tanks. lunar mass drivers are a pretty old concept so it might be what they are going for.

>>35152610
space pearl harbor was a big concern around the turn of the century. i don't know how effective it would be today since the US and other countries have been working on ways to reduce the effects of losing satellites. lunar colonies might be more susceptible since they won't have a robust ground infrastructure like we have on earth.

>>35163576
How is this thing supposed to help against hordes of BETA?

>>35152815
>No air in space or on the moon means no aircraft
They won't be (air)craft but we'll still have them. They'll just use rockets to control their movements instead of wings and flaps.

>>35159496
>No but planes are resistant to bullets and missile blasts, and also have measures to prevent lockons/targeting.
>Is it not conveivable that sattelites/shuttles shall be modified to be better for these situations?
I think its conceivable. The US has been working on ways of increasing the odds that it's satellites can survive attacks in space. We don't know what all is being worked on, but it's likely that we'll see adoption of these technologies and procedures given that ASAT technology is spreading.

>>35154917
>all while being underwater because of a Chinese hoax

>>35183601
why didnt they just nuke the moon after finding out that the BETAs were hostile?

>>35183626
Ever wonder why we don't use rocket aircraft now?
Its because jet engines are about 10x more efficient per unit propellant. Your rocket craft would be going through fuel like crazy. Also given you can't rely on aerodyamic lift, you're also spending a lot more propellant even if you weren't using rockets.

You'd have a loiter time of minutes.

>>35152496
AEIOU

>>35184040
what else are you going to use on the moon?

>>35152021
>oil
>many nations scramble to establish and secure their lunar "colonies"

Sorry to rain on your parade, but no one would give a single shit even if the entire Moon was made of nothing but oil.
The cost of completely discontinuing every single use of oil and its derivatives on Earth would be several orders of magnitude lower than the cost of delivering any appreciable amount of oil to Earth from the Moon, even if we disregarded ALL expenses other than the transport itself.
The (already considerable) difficulty and price of getting shit to orbit is absolutely nothing compared to the difficulty and price of getting millions of tons of materials to reenter and land safely after a trip from the Moon.
Until the way we're getting into space and back undergoes a drastic change, anything discovered in space would have to be something absolutely mindblowing to warrant its mining and recovery.

>>35184633
>no fun allowed

>>35184631
i thought about it a bit more. the energy requirements to get into the lowest lunar orbits are pretty small. if you wanted to keep your assets airborne but wanted to save fuel, then you could move them into orbit. when you need to return to the conflict, the craft would just deorbit. the craft could probably even attack targets from orbit (assuming that doesnt get banned outright).

>>35152180

> give 100% subsidies to Planned Parenthood clinics operating in any majority black urban areas
> give child support amnesty to any black men who voluntarily undergo vasectomy
> decriminalize drug use in majority black urban areas

Blacks will be extinct in three generations.

>>35183438
>militaries not tracking every orbital launch from the get go in a space based theater of operation

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>Worrying about launch prices when things these were doable with 50s tech.

>>35185143
Suborbital ballistic trajectories would be the 'easy' way to get from point A to point B fast on the moon. Never get up to true orbital velocity, but boost up high and let gravity draw you back down. You'd end up higher then low orbits (without an atmosphere low orbits on the moon are low indeed).

>>35185584
When you're fielding armament, you don't expect it'll make your money back (also you'll notice everyone thought the project was retarded even back then).
When you're starting a mining enterprise, getting your money back is pretty much all you care about.
>but not with muh strategic resources
If the process of acquiring said resources bankrupts you, then they weren't all that strategic, were they?

>>35185750
Using an Orion Drive would cost a shit ton of money at first but the ability to send entire moon colonies or heavy infrastructure in one go would make it a lot cheaper to get the Moon oil compared to using current chemical rockets.

>>35152180

GIBS US DAT

>>35162892

SPACE DEAGLE
P
A
C
E

D
E
A
G
L
E

>>35185303
that would truly be the greatest timeline.

>>35185410
>radar and infrared
space awareness programs still have some difficulty identifying objects with radar, what happens when nations start applying commonly used stealth features to their spacecraft?

>>35152662
You don't know shit about Sagan, Tyson or Nye

>>35182985
>claim a rock, turn it into a habitat and then sail it back to Terra at low thrust
yeah okay nigger and it takes decades for them to return

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>>35183824
It is a mystery.

>arty can strike anywhere
>after a few years of war the moon is noticeably darker from the amount of shelling
>all of surface is no man's land
>tunnel warfare
I cant wait

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>>35184631
If you're looking combat aircraft, nothing. That was my point. They're fragile, predictable and have much diminished capabilities.
>>35185143
>>35185611
You CAN save fuel that way, but because you'll be primarily ballistic you'll be in very predictable paths and not high enough to avoid interception.

Parking them in orbit is worse because you're absolutely predictable and can't take cover behind the landscape.

Its great idea for civilian craft, but not for something that should expect missiles fired at it routinely
>>35187811
Aren't those programs usually hunting for small but dangerous fragments not entire satellites or craft though?
>>35190953
I wonder if you could ship a refinery and send back material by launching the slag the other way.

>>35152180
To think (((this))) is what's keeping us from everything we dream.

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>>35152021
I'm wondering if tracks would be required on the Moon, even on the heavy vehicles.

An Abrams on the Moon weighs less than a Stryker does on Earth. Would there be any need for tracks?

>>35152742
Wouldn't the gas systems need to be reworked for a vacuum?