1903 Krupp Stahl German Over/Under Shotgun/Rifle

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Little blurry otherside

>>35149558
A triple-barreled weapon is called a "dreiling" and a quadruple-barreled weapon is called a "vierling".

>>35149558
nice and cool grandpa

>Big pile of guns
>take what you want
This will never happen again.

>>35150228
REEEEEEE- DELETE THIS

thats fucking beautiful do you wanna sell it or want what it is.

>>35149594
look at them screws...

>>35152186
>in 2017 they'd all be destroyed
>ALL of them
>gone for good
Who could behind this?

>>35152283
I'm not really sure, it would have to be worth quite a bit to want to sell it because of the centimental value it has to me.

>>35149803
Are the triple barrel usually 3 shotgun barrels or is it not uncommon to have 2 shotgun barrels on top and 1 on bottom?

>>35149803
Drilling, not dreiling.

>>35153254
I mean't 2 shotgun barrels on top and 1 rifle barrel on bottom*

>>35153254
These guns usually have some variation of shotgun and rifle barrels, for flexibility in the woods.
Sometimes you even get 2 different caliber rifle barrels and one shotgun barrel so you can effectively shoot whatever you encounter in the woods.

>>35153238
>selling a family heirloom, passed down from generation to generation.

Consider suicide

>>35149558
>Triple Barrel Shotgun/Rifle
Those can be worth a fortune nowaday.

>>35150228
>WW3 is over
>You can make your picks from old soviet cahces since all weapons will be banned from Russia after it lost
I am okay with this.

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>>35153295
Damn that's crazy. When I was looking at similiar weapons I saw some double barrel (side by side) where one barrel was a shotgun and the other was a rifle. I feel like it would be a little hard to be accurate with the rifle being off center though. But with the drillings it seems so weird when ppl put scopes on them lol

>they rounded up all the Germans guns that were surrendered in big piles and told the Troops they could take what they want
Ian actually talked about this recently in his German .22 training rifle. He said that most of the take backs were .22s or shotguns instead of military rifles, because although a SMG might be awesome to us, they were thinking of what was practical and cheap to run.

>>35153307
>op implies he isn't selling it
>somehow interpreted as the complete opposite
Consider it yourself, you moron.

>>35153307
Lol I mean I have way way older heirlooms my ancestors were Mormon pioneers and we have guns from them along with tons of other stuff. And when I say it would have to be worth quite a bit I mean way more than it probably is. If you had this and someone was willing to drop 50k for something like this for some reason would you not?

>>35153344
>drop 50k for something like this
Fucking lol. It's not a Purdey.

>>35153344
And thats not implying this one isn't imprtant to me it very much is. My grandfather gave it to his father when he returned as a gift but got it back when my great grandfather passed. My dad grew up with it killing his first pheasant with the gun and recieved it when my grandfather passed.
Like what >>35153332 said I was saying most likely what its worth wouldnt be nearly enough for me to sell it

>>35153359
No I know exactly I'm just saying like if there was evidence that it was owned by like a famous German and the value was insanely high then I might, but I know its obviously not I think it was appraised in 1990 for $13,000

>>35153372
That'll work for insurance purposes, but don't expect anyone to pay it. That's a mass produced gun with some engraving, you're talking bank managers not finance ministers.

>>35153321
Most combined rifles have a Suhler Einhakmontage this is a scope mount that allows you to take the optic on and off rather quick (no tools needed) and without changing the zero. The scope is zeroed for the rifled barrel. if you take the optic of and switch to "Schrot" (shot ( as in the shotgun barrel)) a simple ironsight flips up. There is a problem however with the barrels getting warm when shooting since they are in somecases welded to the other barrels this can shift the zero.

>>35153387
Oh yeah no thats definetly true I'm not trying to say it's a super rare weapon. I was just tryna clarify that I am not saying I'm finna sell an heirloom.

>>35153396
Yeah I would think my gun has the same mount theres just a lever to put the scope on or take it off. The heat shifting the zeroing is a bummer though huh that sounds like it would be hard to fix.

>>35153405
Yeah I'm just saying it would be complete tragedy and an absolute loss to the world of guns if that particular historic peasant shotty with its 13k valuation was lost in a completely accidental fire or something

>>35153471
Yeah I have no idea how those kinds of fires happen man, I'm sure the owners are always super bumbed but good thing it always happens righr after they get them insured.

>>35153387
>mass produced
Shows how little you know.
There was no real mass production of combination guns at that time. All of them required extensive handfitting and craftmanship by skilled gunsmiths.

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>>35153254
Here's a picture of the most common combinations of barrels.

Flinte = shotgun
Büchs(e) = rifle
Bock-x = Over and Under (shotgun/rifle)

>>35149558
Could you take the barrel off and post some pictures of the markings on the underside by the hinge (?) area. I might be able to help with the markings. The rifle caliber should also be stamped there.
The whole locking mechanism and the use of an offset claw mount instead of the Suhl claw mount (Suhler Einhakmontage) leads me to believe that it's not of german origin.
Krupp steel barrels were used by many gunsmith all over Europe, so together with the FN stamping it might be the work of a smaller belgian gunsmith.
The level of detail in the engravings as well as the gold inletting (while common at the time) point to it not being a cheap one.

It's notable that front trigger is a so called french set trigger (Französischer Stecher). You can pull it normally or push it forward until it clicks and you've got a really light trigger (normally between 150 - 500 grams).

>>35155375
Yeah I'll do it right now just got back home.
>>35155220
That's super cool the Bockdrilling and Buchsflintendrilling are so fucking weird looking haha

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>>35155375
Here comes a bunch of pictures of the barrel and stuff

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I was actually wrong about the gold stamp its not FN its FV

Man, that's beautiful OP. Hope you keep that forever

>>35156641
Thank ya :)

>>35156521
Okay this rules out Belgium instantly.
Suhl is THE center for gunsmithing and guns in (former East) Germany. Also the place I did my gunsmith apprenticeship.

>>35156501
Those just seem to be the initials of the previous owner.

>>35156469
This dates it between 1912 and 1939 as this kind of proofing mark was only used during that time.

I'm working on the rest. I'm just kinda drunk.

>>35156746
>I'm just kinda drunk.
lmao
thanks for the information man thats really cool

>>35156469
This is also the proofmark for the Shotgun barrel.

29 (currently) no idea
Sch.P. = SchrotPatrone = shotshell
NA = again (currently) no idea
crown with N = smokeless powder proof mark
27 g Bl = tested with 27g of leadshot

>>35156531
172/28 is the caliber in weird way of measuring.
Most likely 8x57 IR or IRS.
This would be important to know as 8x57 IRS is slightly bigger and not safe to shoot in an 8x57 IR barrel. While it is likely to be a IRS barrel you should go to a gunsmith and have the bore slugged for an exact measurement.

>>35156509
Here we have part of the proof for the rifled barrel (the 2 g G.B.P. one, could you provide a picture of the full stamp?).

2 g G.B.P. = 2 grams of Gewehr Plättchen Pulver (rifle scale powder, literal translation, just the type of powder used)


Stay tuned for more.
(also kinda drunk is a bit of an understatement as another Bock beer has found it's purpose writing this)

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>>35156978
Thanks for finding all this out anon very kind :)

>>35156509
Crown with S = proofmark for smoothbore barrels
Crown with W = proof for choked barrels
Crown with U = Final inspection after proof testing
16,1 = size of the choked shotgun barrel (this would probably be an improved modified choke)

The chamber is most likely for 2 1/2" shells, because it would be specified otherwise.

Also I have to rescind my statement about the age.
>>35157076
This exact proof mark was apparently only used before 1912 and then simplified, so 1903 could very well be the date of manufacture. This would coincide with >>35156491 as Christian Sturm, a Suhl gunsmith, apparently worked around 1900 and stopped some years later)

St.m.G = Stahlmantel Geschoss = stell jacketed bullet

>>35156509
That poorly defined blob next to the Crown with W is supposed to be an Eagle and is just another proof marking (basically first inspection and testing)

>>35157076
>>35156872
You're welcome.
I'm happy I could be of help and use some of this very specific for something.

I think that's all. A specific date (month/year) cannot be confirmed, but the 1903 and the time in which Christian Sturm worked narrow it down.

>>35157335
*16,1 mm
*very specific knowledge

And there goes my 4th bock beer.

>>35157365
Haha god bless you man, great info.

Not too informed on values for these but if I had to guess, the gun is worth at least $2000-2500 and could be upwards of $5-6k. Potentially double that if you had the original bringback paper, which I know you probably don't.

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Great Grandfather served in North Africa, and saw action in Italy and Southern France from 1943-1944, maybe longer not too sure.

Came back from service and passed away in a car accident less than 2 weeks after returning.

Grandpa ended up inheriting a 1938 BLM K98k which his father brought back, and his brother inherited an FN model 1910 in 32 acp.

Grandpa and my great uncle used to hunt with it in the 60's, and my grandfather passed it on to me a few weeks ago.

Sweet gun with tons of sentimental value

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>>35157387
You can also test if the lockup is still good.

Take the forend off,, hold it by the grip and shake the barrel. If the barrel sits tight and doesn't wiggle you'll be right as rain. If it wiggles a little it's ok. If it really shakes and rattles you have two options:
1. Keep it as a heirloom and never shoot it.
2. Take it to a gunsmith that's specialised on break actions and can properly re-tighten (?) the action.

In regards to a scope you're probably shit out of luck. Those claw mounts are ancient and even if you by chance find one, no 2 of them are alike. All are precisely fitted to a single gun. The fitting alone is a dying skill (There are maybe ~200 gunsmiths worldwide still capable of this).

As another anon said the rifled barrel is extremely heat sensitive. So between 2 shots you would probably need to let it cool down 10-20 minutes (depending on the ambient temperature) to have the exact same POI. That's because the two barrels have been soldered together and heat creates tension in the solder which shifts the POI up (up to 10cm between 2 shots).


Also say hello to Bock beer No.5.

>>35157610
misread OP
thought this was a war bringback thread, sorry for novel

>>35157610
That's awesome the Kar is such a cool gun and really cool story.man
>>35157668
It doesn't shake very much at all and good to know about the heat shifting. And incredible lmao.

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>>35157730
Then you can consider yourself the happy owner of a pre-war O/U combination rifle/shotgun (that alone is rare even on this side of the Atlantic) that's in very good working order and probably worth a pretty penny.

Congrats

>>35157910
Thanks man have a good night

>>35157963
Oh I definitely will, but the morning might be a bit rough.
You too have a good one.